Talk:Bleach (manga)
 | Bleach (manga) has been listed as one of the good articles under the good article criteria. If you can improve it further, please do so. If it no longer meets these criteria, you can reassess it. | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
| This is the talk page for discussing improvements to the Bleach (manga) article. This is not a forum for general discussion of the subject of the article. |
Article policies
|
| Find sources: Google (books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL |
| Archives: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 |
 | Anime and manga GA‑class | |||||||||
| ||||||||||
 Archives |
|---|
Nominated for GA
After finally performing the irritating task of writing Fair Use Rationales for all the images in use on this page, I believe we are officially ready to pass the Good Article criteria. Nomination is underway, hopefully a reviewer will be along shortly. --tjstrf talk 21:39, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
- A lot of changes were made since my last copyedit, so I tried to do some cleanup again. I think the media section needs work on the flow and it still would make sense to me to include more of the plot, but it is certainly improving. Dekimasuよ! 04:33, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
- It has about as much plot as can be included without drowning the rest of the article. The plot is still ongoing and may stretch for years more anyway, (this is, after all, endless fighting shonen #736,) so detailed plot isn't as useful as setting and characters when describing the general series anyway. --tjstrf talk 05:08, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
- Well, I hope this will pass GA, but I have to admit that there's a large part of me that would rather see recommendations for improvement. Peer reviews are pretty spotty as far as the degree of input they get.
Maybe we can list this for the WP:ANIME collaboration of the week again, or something like that.Dekimasuよ! 05:20, 5 May 2007 (UTC)- Yeah, the weekly project got killed after people realized that nobody but those who have read/watched a given series can really help much with the articles on it, so it didn't actually get much additional input for articles but created lots of extra paper pushing meta-work. More recommendations for improvement would be nice, but peer review is, as you said, spotty in its results. (Especially since from what I've seen most of the peer review types aren't particularly focused on pop culture articles anyway.)
- By the way, since you suggested we include more plot, what parts of the plot are you recommending be added? --tjstrf talk 22:21, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
- Well, I hope this will pass GA, but I have to admit that there's a large part of me that would rather see recommendations for improvement. Peer reviews are pretty spotty as far as the degree of input they get.
- It has about as much plot as can be included without drowning the rest of the article. The plot is still ongoing and may stretch for years more anyway, (this is, after all, endless fighting shonen #736,) so detailed plot isn't as useful as setting and characters when describing the general series anyway. --tjstrf talk 05:08, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
Some comments from a non-reviwer :) Main characters section is completly missing references. Title (manga) is confusing as the article describes anime, too (and 3 out of 4 images are anime). The article scope is confusing, as 1) if it is only about manga, remove anime info and add info about manga chapters and translations 2) if it is about anime and manga, add info about manga AND anime 3) if it is about Bleach franchise in general, incorporate also info about games and such.-- Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus | talk 18:22, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
- The main characters section is simply a brief summary of the linked articles, sourced to the manga series itself. No controversial information is there included and in-line referencing would simply make the text unreadable by putting a footnote after every word. Similar Good Articles have never been required to source brief character summaries, so this is not a concern.
- As for the article name, we are at the correct title per naming conventions as the manga is the original material, so a title change would actually bring us out of standardization and endanger our chances of passing GA. Our scope is appropriate and in accordance with project guidelines as well, covering primarily the original media form and the derived media forms as an aside. Most manga articles have unique titles so this disambiguation style is not often required, but off the top of my head you could see Berserk (manga) for a similar instance of a manga article that also gives information about the derived media.
- We in fact already provide all the information you have suggested, either on this page directly or in ancillary articles, giving them priority based on their relative importance to the subject. The manga is of prime importance, with the anime a close second (due to its being more popular than the manga), the OVAs, games, musical, etc. are of minor importance in contrast. I acknowledge that we are somewhat deficient in our coverage of the movie, but that will be swiftly rectified once it is available in any sort of English format. --tjstrf talk 20:03, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
GA-Pass
- GA review (see here for what the criteria are, and here for what they are not)
{{subst:#if:|
{{{overcom}}}|}}
- It is reasonably well written.
- It is factually accurate and verifiable, as shown by a source spot-check.
- a (reference section):
b (inline citations to reliable sources): c (OR): d (copyvio and plagiarism):
- {{subst:#if:|{{{2com}}}|}}
- a (reference section):
- It is broad in its coverage.
- a (major aspects): b (focused):
- {{subst:#if:|{{{3com}}}|}}
- a (major aspects):
- It follows the neutral point of view policy.
- Fair representation without bias:
- {{subst:#if:|{{{4com}}}|}}
- Fair representation without bias:
- It is stable.
- No edit wars, etc.:
- {{subst:#if:|{{{5com}}}|}}
- No edit wars, etc.:
- It is illustrated by images and other media, where possible and appropriate.
- a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales): b (appropriate use with suitable captions):
- {{subst:#if:|{{{6com}}}|}}
- a (images are tagged and non-free content have non-free use rationales):
- Overall:
- Pass/Fail:
- {{subst:#if:|{{{7com}}}|}}
- Pass/Fail:
3b. Is this article about the franchise in general or is it about the manga specifically. If it is about the manga (which I am going to assume as per the article title) then major work is needed to focus the article. For example, the Bount section should be removed entirely. If it is about bleach in general it provides a good overview of the series, and deserves the GA status with just a little work. More citation is needed when sales statistic are used. Still well referenced in most places however so I did not fail it on that mark. Chad's arm needs citation also, I don't believe that it is metal.
- I am putting the review on hold. Let me know where this article is focused and I can re-review it using the appropriate criterion.
Cronholm144 20:05, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
Congratulation on GA status, I looked at what I thought needed to be sourced and found it mentioned later in the article. Other than that, the passive tense is used a little too frequently and the prose could use some polish, but certainly within GA standards. Keep up the good work.Cronholm144 05:41, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
On criteria 3b (focus), the scope of the article is intended to be the manga series Bleach, its derived media, and franchise. The title may be slightly confusing, but it is the correct one and in accordance with the project guidelines on disambiguation because the franchise as a whole is based around a manga series.
I am unsure what you mean by more citation for sales statistics. Is the problem with the sources we have used, or are you requesting that we find more than one source per sales statistic?
If you have any additional questions, please contact me on my talk page or the Bleach talk page. --tjstrf talk 05:11, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
- I am guessing that it was a reference to the "36 million" figure in the article summary. The citation for it is in the media section. Dekimasuよ! 05:47, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
- As relates to that, the new source for the 39 million figure appears to refer back to the source we were already using (the 2ch Jump log) as justification for that number, and the 2ch Jump log still lists the figure as 36 million. I am not sure we can consider the new source reliable, and it is certainly one step further removed from the actual sales data. I'd like to change the source and figure back, unless there are objections here. Dekimasuよ! 06:58, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
- I'm going to withdraw my objection. The 2ch Jump log is still showing a figure of 36 million, but that was last updated at the end of February, and since then it has extra data on volumes 26 and 27. It's clear that the new article synthesizes that information instead of just citing it outright, but since we're not the ones doing the synthesizing, I suppose that's okay. If the Jump log updates to a new number, I'll change the citation back, but if not, I'll leave it alone, and the current cite is in English, which is a plus. Dekimasuよ! 02:39, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
- As relates to that, the new source for the 39 million figure appears to refer back to the source we were already using (the 2ch Jump log) as justification for that number, and the 2ch Jump log still lists the figure as 36 million. I am not sure we can consider the new source reliable, and it is certainly one step further removed from the actual sales data. I'd like to change the source and figure back, unless there are objections here. Dekimasuよ! 06:58, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
Summary of archived standardization topics
I have just noticed this thing and it's IMO a very good addition to this talk page. However, there are two problems:
- We refer to "artificial souls" rather than "modified souls" in order to incorporate all manufactured souls. - I can't remember when we agreed on this, and the sentence doesn't really make sense. We actually do refer to modsouls as modified souls, and gigai as gigai. What does this sentence talk about?
- It was actually agreed that the citation format for individual chapter/page cases should stay simple, without volume ISBNs and such because not all chapters are in volumes, it's a bloody mess, and other reasons. This should be changed accordingly.
Hope these issues are resolved ASAP.
-- Ynhockey (Talk) 21:43, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Sounds like #1 might be refering to the Character type section, where modsouls are under the artifical soul sub-header. –Gunslinger47 23:53, 12 May 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, I think that was just for the purposes of this page, and came about as a result of Talk:Bleach (manga)/Archive 4#Modified souls. Perhaps. As for Ynhockey's second question, I think we need a full citation format (either citing the volumes or the relevant magazine issues until the volumes come out). It's possible to fix all of the citations on this page based on the individual volumes. That's something I've been intending to do but haven't gotten around to yet. Tjstrf had also suggested linking to the relevant part of the Bleach media and materials page as a way of getting around mentioning the ISBN numbers, I believe. Dekimasuよ! 02:28, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
- Linking to the Bleach media and materials page is a very good idea. ISBN numbers for every in-line citation we use would create a barely understandable mess. It's true that Wikipedia has certain policies, but we also need not forget that for the Bleach articles the audience is somewhat different, and a special adaptation is needed. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 04:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
- (I actually meant List of Bleach chapters. But I agree. Dekimasuよ! 05:05, 13 May 2007 (UTC))
- Linking to the Bleach media and materials page is a very good idea. ISBN numbers for every in-line citation we use would create a barely understandable mess. It's true that Wikipedia has certain policies, but we also need not forget that for the Bleach articles the audience is somewhat different, and a special adaptation is needed. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 04:55, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, I think that was just for the purposes of this page, and came about as a result of Talk:Bleach (manga)/Archive 4#Modified souls. Perhaps. As for Ynhockey's second question, I think we need a full citation format (either citing the volumes or the relevant magazine issues until the volumes come out). It's possible to fix all of the citations on this page based on the individual volumes. That's something I've been intending to do but haven't gotten around to yet. Tjstrf had also suggested linking to the relevant part of the Bleach media and materials page as a way of getting around mentioning the ISBN numbers, I believe. Dekimasuよ! 02:28, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
Ichigo's Description
The description starts with "The primary protagonist of Bleach, orange-haired high school freshman Ichigo Kurosaki is forced to become a substitute shinigami after unwittingly absorbing all of Rukia's powers." I want to know where this idea of 'orange-haired' came from. If that is orange, then what does yellow/blonde look like? Isn't it arguable that the title of the show is a result of his bleach-blonde hair? Just curious. I'm not trying to argue that that's the cause for the title; I'm just saying I feel this should be changed to blonde or yellow-haired because I don't see a hint of orange in there. -- Whoa2000 14:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
- The show would not seem to hold the same opinion, lest we ignore the numerous references to orange hair ("carrot-top", to name just one). Besides, it looks pretty orange to me. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 07:21, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
- I'm pretty certain that it's supposed to specifically be strawberry blonde. This is a reference to both his name (ichigo Wiktionary:苺) and to the title (Bleach). Strawberry blonde is the color black hair takes when bleached by peroxide. –Gunslinger47 07:41, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
- That makes a lot of sense. Should the article be changed to that then? (Including the link to that article?) ((Also, sorry I forgot to sign my name before.)) -- Whoa2000 14:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
- I thought that his hair is supposed to be naturally orange. As in not bleached by anything. And the manga also specifically states "orange" regarding his hair color (when giving out basic stats in the first chapter). Eellee 21:19, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
- It is naturally orange, but that doesn't stop the name being a reference to the normal method one would need to use to get hair that colour. --tjstrf talk 21:22, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
- People gave Ichigo a hard time growing up because they thought he bleached his hair. –Gunslinger47 21:26, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
- Everyone seems to keep missing the fact that we have no clue why the show is called Bleach, a reference to the hair may be a coincidence for all we know. Until we know why, the "bleached hair" argument doesn't work. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 21:28, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
- We do indeed have a clue, namely Ichigo's hair. We just don't have confirmation. So it's nothing we can put into the article, but if we're getting questioned about the name constantly on the talk page then there's nothing wrong with giving the reasonable guesses that have developed. --tjstrf talk 21:33, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
- Answering questions on the title yes, but using the hair-title reference for info in the article is different. We can't change the info on Ichigo's hair color to blonde because people reference the bleach title. Although I believe it is supposed to be strawberry blonde as his nickname is strawberry. But I believe in the first chapter or so of the manga it called it orange. Unless either the anime, manga or Kubo tell us the color it's supposed to be I think he should change it to something neutral (light colored or something similar). Yea, I'm starting to confuse myself here so ima shut up now. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 21:40, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
- Oh, well I wasn't suggesting we do that. Agreed. --tjstrf talk 21:47, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
- Answering questions on the title yes, but using the hair-title reference for info in the article is different. We can't change the info on Ichigo's hair color to blonde because people reference the bleach title. Although I believe it is supposed to be strawberry blonde as his nickname is strawberry. But I believe in the first chapter or so of the manga it called it orange. Unless either the anime, manga or Kubo tell us the color it's supposed to be I think he should change it to something neutral (light colored or something similar). Yea, I'm starting to confuse myself here so ima shut up now. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 21:40, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
- We do indeed have a clue, namely Ichigo's hair. We just don't have confirmation. So it's nothing we can put into the article, but if we're getting questioned about the name constantly on the talk page then there's nothing wrong with giving the reasonable guesses that have developed. --tjstrf talk 21:33, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
- Everyone seems to keep missing the fact that we have no clue why the show is called Bleach, a reference to the hair may be a coincidence for all we know. Until we know why, the "bleached hair" argument doesn't work. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 21:28, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
- People gave Ichigo a hard time growing up because they thought he bleached his hair. –Gunslinger47 21:26, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
- It is naturally orange, but that doesn't stop the name being a reference to the normal method one would need to use to get hair that colour. --tjstrf talk 21:22, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
- I thought that his hair is supposed to be naturally orange. As in not bleached by anything. And the manga also specifically states "orange" regarding his hair color (when giving out basic stats in the first chapter). Eellee 21:19, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
His hair color is orange. the manga clearly says
"Ichigo "Strawberry Kurosaki: 15 years old
Hair: Orange
Eyes: Brown
Occupation: High School Student"
So that's the official verdict on his hair color according to the manga. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 21:45, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
- If that's the page I'm thinking of, Ichigo's hair is officially given as "orande". --tjstrf talk 21:47, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
The Bleach genres
I think its fairly obvious, that both the manga and anime of Bleach have enough comedy to be labeled as comedy in the genres, as well as many elements of adventure (traveling to the soul society) and other credible story arcs that make it adventure. Therefore I propose that the genres Comedy and Adventure be added to the list of genres and that this article be listed in the comedy category.
- I disagree. It contains no more of those elements than is common to all and sundry shonen series, and I dare say that after the initial arc has less comedy than most shonen do. Additionally, there are already more than enough categories at the bottom of this page without needing another 4 for comedy and adventure manga and anime.
- On a side note, why do we use separate categories for manga and anime genres? They fall into the same classifications, so it would make more sense to just use :Category:X-genre anime and manga like we do Category:Anime and manga locations and the like. I remember bringing it up on WT:MANGA, but the ensuing debate generated only a small amount of heat and no light. I should really take them all to WP:CFD for merging some time. --tjstrf talk 07:16, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
- I agree. To me, at least, for an anime to be classified as "comedy", it has to focus mainly on that. Take Excel Saga; it blatantly concentrates on comedy. A prime example would be Lord of the Rings. While it does contain some humorous moments throughout the films, I think we'd all agree that it isn't a comedy. Bleach is the same way. Jezebel Parks 12:18, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
- For something to be under the comedy genre it does not have to be pure comedy and nothing else, I have seen enough in the anime and read enough of the manga to see this as comedy, but that is not the whole point of Bleach, I simply think that it has ENOUGH comedy for it to be one of the genres. It also kind of annoys me to see every single database on anime and manga have comedy, adventure, and drama listed as some of the genres for Bleach, but then Wikipedia a database on just about everything to have only Action, Shonen, Supernatural as the genres. I mean that just makes it seem so dull, granted it is excellent in all its forms(anime, manga, movie, video games), I would still like to see comedy and adventure as some of the genres for Bleach.
- Shōnen: "Shōnen anime and manga is typically characterized by high-action, often humorous plots featuring male protagonists." Two genres in one. Why add redundancy? — Someguy0830 (T | C) 06:57, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
- Shonen anime all share certain common elements, as Someguy points out. The only reason we even need include action on the page is to clarify what emphasis it takes within the shonen genre. If this were Bobobobobobobobobobobobobobobobob.... then categorizing it as shonen and comedy would make sense. Supernatural is included because supernatural is not implied in shonen. --tjstrf talk 07:08, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
- The description of shonen states that they "often have humorous plots", not always. There are some shonen manga and anime with no hints of humor, not even comic relief moments that are often seen in many anime that are otherwise free of any comedic elements. I still believe that comedy should be added as one of the genres, just to give better clarity of the content of the series in general. You have given me plenty of reasons on why you refuse to acknowledge the comedy in Bleach, but I can't see why this would not be labeled as an adventure, please give me more clarity on why not adventure, Oh great bearer of wisdom...
- Per adventure, an adventure is a risky or dangerous endevour undertaken (at least partially) for the fun of it. Surprising as it may be, Bleach is not an adventure series, since the main characters are not off questing and fighting for the hell of it but rather primarily as part of their jobs or to save the world. If you wanted an adventure series, that would be One Piece, where the characters are off to find the eponymous treasure, or +Anima, where they're just journeying for the fun of it. Zombie Powder was an adventure series as well, but Bleach is not. (It would be, however, if it were written from the perspective of Zaraki Kenpachi.)
- In short, while adventure nearly always entails action, an action series is only an adventure if the characters are in it for the fun. --tjstrf talk 08:06, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
- Also contrast Action film with Adventure film. Subtle as it may be in the actual content, there is a significant presentational difference. --tjstrf talk 08:07, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
- I will just end my part in this discussion by saying, that I trust ANN's(Anime News Network) genre description, and that I still view it as having comedy and adventure, and nothing you can say will change my mind. I must now take some time to enjoy that adventurous, funny yet serious, action packed, supernatural phenomenon otherwise known as Bleach.
- Yes, by all means, enjoy your Shonen! However, that is not an excuse to start an edit war by continuing to add the genres after the discussion turned out being against your view. --tjstrf talk 08:36, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
- We are woefully familiar with ANN. They take public contributions as well (after registration), just as we do. If you trust what ANN says, then trust what we say. :p –Gunslinger47 18:50, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
- ANN has the correct genres though and based on the content of something they have I agree with them. The other day I saw on the wikipedia page for Chobits that someone had put shoujo as one of the genres. I don't know what you guys think about that but speaking from having experienced the anime and manga I must say that Chobits is the exact opposite of shoujo.
- Consensus is against you. Let it go. Also, Chobits is not listed as shoujo. Nice try. Others removed it, despite your wordy attempts to get you way there. — Someguy0830 (T | C) 19:13, 20 May 2007 (UTC)
I did not say Chobits was listed as Shoujo I said that someone added it themselves to the genre list for the wikipedia article.
I would say that Bleach does have enough for comedy, simply because I have seen enough in the anime and manga to be laughing my ass off plenty of times, not just a few times every now and then.
- It's among the least funny shonen I've ever seen. You must still be in arc 1. --tjstrf talk 20:05, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Arc 1 counts for nothing then? I also seem to recall Renji as a Hippie later in the anime. You can't tell me that's still in arc 1.
- When compared with the 75% of the series that has been released since then? Yes. Moral: never trust arc 1 of a story, most of the time it exists solely to introduce characters while the author figures out what they're doing. (Hippie Renji was in Sealed Sword Frenzy, btw.) --tjstrf talk 07:21, 23 May 2007 (UTC)
Spoiler warnings: to use or not use?
Since I know not everyone watches the taskforce talk page, I'm crossposting here.
Basically, the guideline on spoiler warnings, WP:SW, has been rejected. The spoiler warning templates still exist, but their usage is currently determined solely by user discretion. I would like to collect opinions on what qualifies as a spoiler in Bleach-related articles, so that we can hopefully weather this policy flux without any editing disputes.
Please discuss at WT:BLEACH#Spoiler warnings: to use or not use?. --tjstrf talk 21:41, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
- You might also want to note Talk:Bleach (manga)/Archive 4#Defining a Spoiler. Dekimasuよ! 00:14, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- Yes, thank you, I remember that one. However, it was last year, and things have changed a bit since then. --tjstrf talk 00:18, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- I think most of it still applies. Some of it hasn't been aired in the anime until quite recently. And since most of it hasn't been aired in English yet, I think it should still remain in spoilers for those fans who come here only following the show in English. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 00:57, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Has the author explained the title?
I was hoping to find an explanation here of why the show is named Bleach. -rachells 66.30.3.0 00:54, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- He was drawing the manga and a thing of bleach fell on his head. Actually, I have no clue, I don't believe he's explained it. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 00:55, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- It has never been formally explained. The common theory, however, is that it's named for Ichigo's bleached-looking hair, whose colour has always been an important visual element of the series. Since Kubo's a music nut, it's possibly also a reference to the Nirvana album of the same name.
- So no definite answer, but a couple good guesses. --tjstrf talk 01:01, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- Since when does bleached hair turn red? When Michael Jackson bleached himself it turned white instead of red. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 01:45, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- "Bleach reacts more readily with the dark eumelanin pigment than with the phaeomelanin, so some gold or red residual color may remain after lightening." [1] It happens especially in Japan where many teens improperly bleach their hair. Gdo01 01:51, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- Since when does bleached hair turn red? When Michael Jackson bleached himself it turned white instead of red. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 01:45, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- Commented on earlier here: Talk:Bleach (manga)/Archive 5#Bleach: the name
- As I said there: In Bleach, black and white have reversed symbolism. "To bleach" would figuratively mean a decent into darkness. –Gunslinger47 01:56, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- Where does it say black and white have reversed symbolism in the manga/anime? I've never heard that one before. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 02:02, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- Shinigami outfits = black. Hollows, arrancar outfits, hollow masks = white. Gdo01 02:03, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- Captain outfits = white. :P --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 02:10, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- Hollow Ichigo = white in every single way: bankai, clothing. Gdo01 02:12, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- Most hallows are black except for their mask which is white btw. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 02:14, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- So where does Uryu "white pride" Ishida fall into this little system? --tjstrf talk 02:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- Exactly. This white and black being reversed is speculation. There are many examples proving your theory wrong. It may be true in some cases, but until Kubo decides to let us in on the secret all we have are guesses. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 02:26, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- So where does Uryu "white pride" Ishida fall into this little system? --tjstrf talk 02:16, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- Most hallows are black except for their mask which is white btw. --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 02:14, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- Hollow Ichigo = white in every single way: bankai, clothing. Gdo01 02:12, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- Captain outfits = white. :P --Malevious Userpage •Talk Page• Contributions 02:10, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- Shinigami outfits = black. Hollows, arrancar outfits, hollow masks = white. Gdo01 02:03, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- I said white and black symbolism has been reversed or, at the very least, tampered with. I am not saying that all instances of white and all instances of black must have significance. Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar. :) –Gunslinger47 05:31, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
- I'd like to discuss this further and explain my theories on why Kubo made captains wear white (Ichigo v. Kuchiki / protagonist v. antagonist / black v. white) but as I am fond of reminding others, this is not a forum. ^_^ I just wanted to give Rachells something to think about by mentioning it, lacking any explicit answers. –Gunslinger47 05:39, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Revision count
Sorry, just had to say that. :) --tjstrf talk 06:16, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- lol. Remind us when IT'S OVAR NINE THOUSAND!!! Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 06:35, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- 5,000 is the limit for a single page view, so you can check for 5k, 10k, 15k, etc. but anything in between is hard to pin down. Hopefully we'll be a featured article by the time our revision count matches Ichigo's power level though. --tjstrf talk 06:59, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
There's an excellent revision counter here, however, it's broken on many articles including this one, I think it's because it caches some data. But usually it's accurate. -- Ynhockey (Talk) 10:45, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Contains Japanese text
I am not sure that I agree with the addition of Template:Contains Japanese text to this article. All of the Japanese on this page is inside nihongo templates, with their helpful little question mark. In the TfD discussion for this template, which could easily have been closed as a delete (I voted keep), there were a lot of voices in favor of keeping its use to a minimum. I argued that it should be saved for use in articles with large blocks of Japanese text, like waka, and other editors argued that it's unnecessary metadata. If possible, I'd like to take the template back out of this one. Dekimasuよ! 08:26, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
- If you insist, then fine, though I'd prefer keeping it in since that seems to be the de facto standard among the higher quality anime and manga articles. Every other WP:FA or WP:GA page in the project that I've seen uses them.
- It's probably just as useful as that Wikiquote link anyway. Does Wikiquote even have rules for inclusion or do people just toss in every line they think sounded cool? --tjstrf talk 08:35, 22 May 2007 (UTC)
Sentences
This article has come a long way, so good job to all involved. There is a small contraction, one part of the article says "Ichigo unintentionally absorbs almost all of Rukia's powers" and then later it says "after unwittingly absorbing all of Rukia's powers". There are sentences that need slight rewording like "conflicting loyalties between his job and Rukia, with whom he grew up" could maybe be "Rukia, with whom he was childhood friends with" just to sound more formal? What do others think about these two points? --Squilibob 13:21, 24 May 2007 (UTC)
Chad's voice
Apparently, there's been some small edit warring on Chad's English voice actor. I was thinking, can't we just leave his japanese seiyū there, without his english voice actor? I'll (and everyone else) be satisified when it's been confirmed and properly cited that Jamieson Price is the real voice actor. I haven't found it on any website yet. Peace, The Hippietalk 22:58, 27 May 2007 (UTC)
Shinigami vs Plus
Given that being a Shinigami appears to be no more than an occupation for plusses with significant spiritual pressure. I think that section should be merged with the plus section. As you don't need to be of the shinigami occupation to be a plus with either a Zanpakuto, or kidou skills as shown by Zaraki, Ikkaku, Yumichika, Ganju and Kukaku Shiba. Bushido Brown 01:36, 28 May 2007 (UTC)
- Shinigami are exceptional plusses, however, and are far more prominently featured than plusses. They should definitely remain separated. Sephiroth BCR (Converse) 01:43, 28 May 2007 (UTC)