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m DannyS712 moved page Module talk:Zh/Archive 1 to Module talk:Lang-zh/Archive 1 without leaving a redirect: requested move; consensus at Module talk:Lang-zh |
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The basic use like <nowiki>{{zh|厚朴}}</nowiki> doesn't work. Could you fix this? --[[User:Apoc2400|Apoc2400]] ([[User talk:Apoc2400|talk]]) 14:59, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
:[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Zh&diff=324489729&oldid=323682248 Fixed]. But it's better to specify what you want using <nowiki>{{zh|c=厚朴}}</nowiki>, <nowiki>{{zh|s=厚朴}}</nowiki>, etc. <b class="Unicode">[[User:Rjanag|r<
::Yes, you're right, but sometimes I don't know which it is. It still doesn't seem to work, <nowiki>{{zh|厚朴}}</nowiki>: {{zh|厚朴}}. --[[User:Apoc2400|Apoc2400]] ([[User talk:Apoc2400|talk]]) 18:40, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
:::Oops! I had fixed the code in my sandbox, and forgot to move the fixed code to the real template. Should be working now. <b class="Unicode">[[User:Rjanag|r<
::::Thanks. Can you make <nowiki>{{zh|厚朴|foo}}</nowiki> do something resonable too? Either default to pinyin or just output foo with no description before. --[[User:Apoc2400|Apoc2400]] ([[User talk:Apoc2400|talk]]) 18:57, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
:::::Hm... I think after a point, it gets a bit dangerous to try to guess what users mean when they didn't input the parameter names, so for that reason just ouputting "foo" by itself would be better. But even in that case, I'm not sure if that's the best way to go...if you output "foo", the user might not realize that anything was wrong. If someone uses <nowiki>{{zh|厚朴|foo}}</nowiki> and the second parameter doesn't show up, then at least he'll notice there's a problem and go check the template documentation to see how to fix it, and therefore won't make the same result again. I think this is probably the best option. Besides, forms like <nowiki>{{zh|厚朴|foo}}</nowiki> are not really being used as far as I know; when you see them they're just a result of replacements that happened during the bot run, and they seem to be pretty rare (and I'm figuring that when they do happen, people watching the page will fix them manually). <b class="Unicode">[[User:Rjanag|r<
::::::I saw a case in [[Gua Sha]], that you just fixed. For the trade off, it depends on how important is it to specify what kind of romanization is used. --[[User:Apoc2400|Apoc2400]] ([[User talk:Apoc2400|talk]]) 19:56, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
Also, is there a way to mark something as Chinese, without producing the 'Chinese:' text? Like {{tl|nihongo}} does for Japanese? --[[User:Apoc2400|Apoc2400]] ([[User talk:Apoc2400|talk]]) 18:44, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
:For that it's better just to use the {{tlx|lang|zh}} template, which puts it in Chinese font and stuff. It would look like {{tlx|lang|zh|厚朴}}. For example, see [[Chinese classifier]], which has this template all over the place. <b class="Unicode">[[User:Rjanag|r<
::Ok, that's kind of complex though. Didn't {{tl|lang-zh}} use to do just that? --[[User:Apoc2400|Apoc2400]] ([[User talk:Apoc2400|talk]]) 18:57, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
:::Hm, as far as I can tell that template always did what this one does, which is make "Chinese: ___". I think {{tlx|lang}} is more versatile.
:::And actually, lang-zh should have been replaced with the others when [[User:ZhBot|ZhBot]] did his run... I didn't realize that template existed, so I'll go quickly run the bot again. <b class="Unicode">[[User:Rjanag|r<
::::Ok, I guess I remember wrong. {{tl|lang}} seems fine. I added an other question above. --[[User:Apoc2400|Apoc2400]] ([[User talk:Apoc2400|talk]]) 19:11, 7 November 2009 (UTC)
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-[[User:Multivariable|Multivariable]] ([[User talk:Multivariable|talk]]) 01:00, 7 December 2009 (UTC)
:[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Zh&diff=330157421&oldid=327900441 Fixed]. Thanks for pointing that out. <b class="Unicode">[[User:Rjanag|r<
== Marking language for pinyin ==
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So can the non-breaking spaces after the semicolons be changed to normal spaces? If someone more familiar with this can look at it and see if my thinking's right I think this is a relatively straightforward fix.--<small>[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]</small><sup>[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]</sub> 20:51, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
:I [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Zh&diff=355021704&oldid=331449614 changed] the non-breaking spaces to regular ones. How does Macau look now? <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
::That's much better, thanks. --<small>[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]</small><sup>[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]</sub> 21:23, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
== Default order ==
As [[User:Kwami]] had [[Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/ZhBot|pointed out]], it is indeed a problem to display simplified characters first by default. Traditional characters is still the official or common standard in many places. Preference shouldn't be given to any of the two by this template. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/119.237.153.52|119.237.153.52]] ([[User talk:119.237.153.52|talk]]) 01:30, 3 May 2010 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
:It's not a problem; as I have said numerous times, the default is very easily overridden and no one is ''forced'' to use any particular order. And your preposterous suggestion of "preference shouldn't be given to any of the two" is impossible—unless you can suggest a way to have neither one appear before the other. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
== Edit request from Paedia, 29 August 2010 ==
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{{tlx|editprotected}}
Please change all instances of [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wade-giles&redirect=no Wade-Giles] to [[Wade–Giles]]. Cheers, [[user:Paedia|P]]'''[[user talk:Paedia|æ]]'''[[user:Paedia|dia]] 11:19, 29 August 2010 (UTC)
:[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Zh&diff=381680182&oldid=380905371 Done]. Thanks for catching that. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
== Should capitalize ==
"Pinyin," "Simplified," and "Traditional" should be capitalized because they are not just a generic romanization system and character sets. [[User:Asoer|Asoer]] ([[User talk:Asoer|talk]]) 21:49, 12 September 2010 (UTC)
:"Traditional" and "simplified" characters are not trademarked names or anything like that, and they are very often used as common nouns. "Pinyin", referring to Hanyu Pinyin, does refer more specifically to a proper name and from a purist's view it maybe should be capitalized (for example, it is at http://pinyin.info), but in actual usage it seems to be lowercase as often, or more often, as capital, so I could go either way. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
:I've seen "pinyin" both capitalised and not, which suggests it's not normally or by default, and it is when used as e.g. headings in tables. Notably [[Pinyin]] does not have it capitalised except as a heading or name, which is what I'd expect. The same except more so for "traditional" and "simplified" which are just terms, and are again often seen uncapitalised unless at the start of sentences or headings: one example is the article [[Debate on traditional and simplified Chinese characters]].--<small>[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]</small><sup>[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]</sub> 00:06, 13 September 2010 (UTC)
::Actually, the [[Pinyin]] article seems to be inconsistent in capitalization. I didn't bother checking the whole article, but in the [[Pinyin#Usage|Usage]] section there are several instances where it's capitalized mid-sentence, and several where it's not. This is fairly common in articles that have "rotted" (i.e., the primary contributor[s] are no longer paying attention and small edits have been made here and there by inexperienced editors who don't have an eye for keeping the article consistent). <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
== Traditional/simplified character order in [[Template:Zh]]: a new proposal ==
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So I am trying to write up a version of the template in which you set a traditional/simplified choice setting just once (specifically, on a subpage of the article where you're using the template), and then every instance of the template on that article uses the ordering you set. Further details about the new setup are '''[[User:Rjanag/samplearticle|here]]'''; if you have a moment I would very much appreciate your input, specifically about any potential problems you can imagine or any ways this can be made better.
Thank you, <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
== use of {zh} template ==
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It is not a serieus bug because it can be easily avoided by changing "hp" to "p", but it would be better to fix it. The article [[Taipei]] had suffered this bug for a long time, it's fixed just now by me.--[[User:Tomchen1989|Tomchen1989]] ([[User talk:Tomchen1989|talk]]) 16:33, 13 November 2010 (UTC)
:Thanks, I'll look into it. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
:[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Zh&diff=396532822&oldid=396532636 Got it]. Thanks for pointing that out. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
== New paramater for [[Xiao'erjing]], arabic script for chinese language ==
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== Suggested enhancement ==
Hi, I wonder if it would be worth adding another parameter to suppress the word "Chinese"; i.e. to render as "simplified: XX; traditional: XX" rather than "simplified Chinese: XX; traditional Chinese: XX". I'm thinking about instances like [[Chinglish#Examples]], "Spread to fuck the fruit" section, where, with repeated successive uses, we quickly get the idea that, yes, it's Chinese, and it become a bit tiresome to keep reading it. [[Special:Contributions/86.176.211.169|86.176.211.169]] ([[User talk:86.176.211.169|talk]]) 02:26, 30 July 2011 (UTC)
:It's certainly possible, and it can be done without any real drawbacks (i.e., the current version would still be the default, so nothing would need to be changed elsewhere), but I'm not sure how much need there is for it. In the instance you point out, really, I think that section of the article should just be removed for editorial reasons. Also, it is usually not necessary to give both simplified and traditional characters (there are some instances where it is useful, but this is not one of them); it would be easier just to give {{para|c}} ("Chinese:"). <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
::I think that section is worthwhile and should be kept. I have seen quite a few of these "fuck" translations, and it's very interesting to learn how such a bizarre thing could happen. [[Special:Contributions/86.160.218.248|86.160.218.248]] ([[User talk:86.160.218.248|talk]])
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::The real improvement, though, would be to suppress unnecessary distinctions automatically on every display of the template. (I.e., ({{ Zh | t = 武陵山脈 | p = Wǔlíng Shānmài }}) should display as ([[traditional Chinese|Chinese]]: 武陵山脈, [[pinyin]]: ''Wǔlíng Shānmài'') — unnecessary "traditional" suppressed but link goes to traditional Chinese script; see above for the discussion on correcting the current misuse of [[semicolon]]s — while ({{ Zh | s = 武陵山脉 | t = 武陵山脈 | p = Wǔlíng Shānmài }}) should display as ([[simplified Chinese|simplified Chinese]]: 武陵山脉, [[traditional Chinese|traditional]]: 武陵山脈, [[pinyin]]: ''Wǔlíng Shānmài''). — [[User talk:LlywelynII|<span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em; class=texhtml">LlywelynII</span>]] 03:25, 16 August 2011 (UTC)
:::In the case you're describing you can use <code><nowiki>{{zh|c=武陵山脈|p=Wǔlíng Shānmài}}</nowiki></code>, which displays as ({{zh|c=武陵山脈|p=Wǔlíng Shānmài}}). When the traditional/simplified distinction doesn't really matter (as it doesn't in most pages) you can just use the {{para|c}} parameter. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
:::(Although I admit not everyone knows to do that, so the {{para|t}} and {{para|s}} parameters are overused. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AZh&action=historysubmit&diff=445094755&oldid=433290325 This] addition will make it so "simplified" or "traditional" only display if both are present. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
== Suggested Enhancement #2 - Pinyin Auto-conversion ==
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:Not possible in this template. This requires the sort of string manipulation capability that the MediaWiki parser doesn't have.
:There are plenty of alternatives for entering pinyin, such as downloading [http://www.chinese-forums.com/index.php?/topic/10274-pinyinput-type-pinyin-with-tone-marks/ pinyinput], copying pinyin from [[WP:CHINESE]], or using any of those other online tools to do the conversion and then copying the pinyin into here. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
:(By the way, in your example, "dai4" should be ''dài'', not *''daì''. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
::Ok, that's all I wanted to know. I am aware of the variety of pinyin-input tools out there, but I have long disliked using pinyin and do not use it except when necessary. As you can see, I never properly learned the rules of applying diacritics, and it turns out it's a generally useless skill except in certain situations, like providing examples on talk pages. :) <small><b><span style="border:1px solid;background:#030303"><span style="color:white"> White Whirlwind </span>[[User talk:White_whirlwind|<span style="color:#030303;background-color:white;"> 咨 </span>]]</span></b></small> 03:14, 1 September 2011 (UTC)
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Take a look at, for example, <nowiki>[[Guangdong]]</nowiki>, which currently reads "(Chinese: 广东 Chinese: 廣東)". I would sometimes accept "(Chinese: 广东)" alone, but never the form above. [[User:Tartanator|Tartanator]] ([[User talk:Tartanator|talk]]) 00:56, 11 September 2011 (UTC)
:Probably has something to do with [[#Suggested enhancement|this recent update]]. I'll look into it. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
:Quite simple: this wasn't a problem with the template, it was a problem within the article. Someone had put two instance of the template in, rather than using one instance properly. I [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Guangdong&diff=449648051&oldid=449646952 fixed] it very easily, and if you had looked in the article's wikitext before posting here you probably could have found the problem on your own. The "carelessness" was in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Guangdong&diff=444762959&oldid=443016053 this edit to the article], not anything having to do with the template, and I can't take responsibility for people doing stuff like that. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
== EMC/LMC, et al. ==
[[User:Rjanag]] - has anyone ever suggested adding parameters for reconstructions on this template or, perhaps more appropriately, the {{tlx|chinese}} template? I'd hesitate a bit for [[Old Chinese]], but [[Middle Chinese]] (split into Early/Late) might be nice to include in infoboxes on the relevant articles. <small><b><span style="border:1px solid;background:#030303"><span style="color:white"> White Whirlwind </span>[[User talk:White_whirlwind|<span style="color:#030303;background-color:white;"> 咨 </span>]]</span></b></small> 08:25, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
:That sounds like it's probably more relevant for {{tlx|Chinese}} than this. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
::Agreed. Functionality added to {{tlx|chinese}}, not here. <small><b><span style="border:1px solid;background:#030303"><span style="color:white"> White Whirlwind </span>[[User talk:White_whirlwind|<span style="color:#030303;background-color:white;"> 咨 </span>]]</span></b></small> 22:49, 12 September 2011 (UTC)
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This will remove these subpages from [[Wikipedia:Database reports/Transclusions of deleted templates]]. [[User:Frietjes|Frietjes]] ([[User talk:Frietjes|talk]]) 20:13, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
:[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Zh&diff=prev&oldid=433290325 Done]. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
:: Thank you, that will remove a few thousand pages from that list. [[User:Frietjes|Frietjes]] ([[User talk:Frietjes|talk]]) 23:23, 8 June 2011 (UTC)
::: OTOH, now you've added [[Xiguan]], [[Mandarin Chinese profanity]], and [[List of sites in Jinan]] to [[:Category:Pages with too many expensive parser function calls]]. [[User:Anomie|Anomie]][[User talk:Anomie|⚔]] 23:47, 17 September 2011 (UTC)
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The template should use commas throughout its occurrences or we should go back to breaking up the templates into its original divisions. -— [[User talk:LlywelynII|<span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em; class=texhtml">LlywelynII</span>]] 05:39, 30 April 2011 (UTC)
:I'm not sure I agree. As you pointed out yourself, the template does not force Vietnamese and Chinese to be separated by a comma; they are each added by separate templates, and anyone can [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Red_River_%28Asia%29&diff=426678683&oldid=422930716 change the comma to a semicolon] for consistency; I don't understand why you think adding a colon is not an improvement, since as far as I can tell it solves the problem you were concerned about. Personally, I think the third option you specify (Vietnamese: ''Sông Hồng''; Chinese: 红河, pinyin: ''Hóng Hé'') looks awkward to me—my intuition is that colons are a more salient "divider" than commas, and thus 'Chinese: 红河, pinyin: ''Hóng Hé''{{'}} looks awkward to me.
:As a side note, what do you mean by "badly-capitalized"? Are you suggesting that the template should use "Pinyin" rather than "pinyin"? Personally I feel ambivalent about those options, I wouldn't mind changing to "Pinyin" if there is a desire for that. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
::Semicolons ''are'' a more salient divider than commas. That's why they're used to divide languages, not separate displays of the same language. Pinyin is not a ''separate'' language from Chinese: it is another method of writing it, hence the need for a comma.
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:::Anyway, it is common in prose lists to use semicolons instead of commas when the items of the lists are long or complex or include other puncuation. That is the reason I used semicolons here; I thought that the colons in the list items warranted semicolons rather than commas in the list, as those are more salient dividers.
:::Also, please consider the context in which this template is meant to be used. In the majority of cases where this template is used, it's for Chinese-only terms and topics, and thus there aren't other languages. The cases you're worried about are a minority. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
::::The MOS includes ''examples'' of what I'm talking about both at [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(lead_section)#Usage_in_first_sentence|WP:lede]] and [[Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(geographic_names)#General_guidelines|WP:place]] but so far didn't spell out the punctuation. Since it's non-controversial and apparently needed, I included that, but let me give you examples from around Wikipedia, since you don't apparently grok it.
:::::[[Byzantine Empire]]: Roman Empire (Greek: Βασιλεία Ῥωμαίων, ''Basileia Rhōmaiōn'')
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: I don't think it's a good idea to replace traditional, simplified and pinyin with 't', 's' and 'p'. None of them are especially obvious and it also makes the links much harder to spot. 'simp.', 'trad.' and 'pinyin' would be better from both points of view. I agree that repeating 'Chinese' should be unnecessary, though it's not obvious how to achieve this. Using smaller text seems fine too.
:I question how much of a problem all of this is though. The template is not used much but that's as it's often unnecessary. E.g. apart from the main topic of an article it's usually unnecessary to include so much detail. Other appearances of Chinese are usually much simpler, e.g. "Zhongguo (中国)". Or if there is a lot of Chinese text in a table or list it might be presented some other way, such as in a separate column. Traditional and simplified are often not both shown, either as they are the same or as the topic is one where one usage predominates. Wade-Giles is rarely needed.--<small>[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]</small><sup>[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]</sub> 11:31, 12 October 2011 (UTC)
::JohnBlackburne has said pretty much everything I was going to say. It seems to me that there is usually not a need to use a long version of the template over and over again; once in the lede should suffice (and even then, if there are a ton of things to include, it might be better to just put that information in a {{tlx|Chinese}} box rather than prose). In cases where someone is overusing the template within an article, a simple solution is to clean up the article rather than to rewrite the template. Also, much of what you are asking for (smaller text, "t" instead of "traditional Chinese", etc.), can be accomplished using the {{tlx|zh-full}} template. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
:::The proposal is to make it the default. Further, the zh template is far more prevalent and user-friendly, and the {{tl|zh-full}} template continues various other errors mentioned above. Finally, as you are the template creator, I don't question that you are correct on your points, but the template directions certainly give no indication at all about its ability to do what you claim it does. — [[User talk:LlywelynII|<span style="text-shadow:#BBBBBB 0.1em 0.1em 0.1em; class=texhtml">LlywelynII</span>]] 13:54, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
::With respect I think your objections are very poorly taken.
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:::Regarding the use of "pinyin:", these labels aren't just there to indicate to the reader which is which; they're also guides for readers who don't know about Chinese to find the relevant pages explaining what they're seeing. Thus, I don't think it would be appropriate to remove the marker entirely.
:::Regarding reducing "simplified Chinese" to "simp." after the first instance, it is probably possible to create a "short form" version of the template that can be specified in later instances of the template (something like this is already done with {{para|links|no}}, suppressing links if the template is used over and over again). I still think in most cases it's best to just avoid using the template over and over again (see, for instance, ''[[Chinese classifier]]'', which has tons of Chinese and doesn't use the template) because it's usually not necessary. I can look into making the template allow a "short form" version for the rare cases when it's needed. (I can't guarantee that people will actually use it, because most people just do stuff without checking the instructions.) <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
::::On (1) the problem is we don't know what other pages users have visited before they visit any single page. Nor do we know their experience with Chinese. We don't even know if they can see the characters (anyone still using Windows XP, unless they have a Chinese version or make special effort, just sees rectangles). For all these reasons we can't assume that users will recognise the text as Chinese from having seen it before, and so not need it pointing out to them. Really for many if not most Europeans and Americans Chinese might just as well be Thai or Korean: even if they have the software installed they can't tell them apart. So at least once per article labelling the funny squiggles as "Chinese", and clarifying why they appear twice not once, makes sense to me.--<small>[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]</small><sup>[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]</sub> 20:45, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
:::::I would be against changing, for example, the "Simplified" to "Simp." or "s" across the board, but it might be nice to do so, say, in the second and subsequent uses of the template in an article or section of an article. Calling the template does clutter up an article quite quickly: I looked at <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
::::::I'm not sure what you mean. That article only uses {{tlx|zh}} twice, so if you think it's cluttered I don't see why you're using that as an example of how this template causes clutter. Regarding your other concern, I would be happy to discuss this issue (about which I don't agree with you) about that article elsewhere, but it's not really relevant in this discussion. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
{{outdent}} I simply meant that it contains a significant amount of Chinese characters (far too many, in my opinion) - I mistakenly assumed the template was used for most of them. Regarding the [[Chinese classifier]] page, I didn't realize until after looking at the Talk and hist pages that you (<b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
:I'm not taking it personally--anyone is welcome to give constructive criticism about any article. What I meant was, if you really think there are serious problems with the article, we can discuss it in a more relevant place. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
== Traditional & Simplified ==
I think the template should show the Traditional & Simplified, even entering one type only, because it is confusing for some people.[[User:Hoising|hoising]] ([[User talk:Hoising|talk]]) 04:21, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
:I'm not sure what you mean. Can you give an example of what you're asking for? <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
::If a man named '''叶干''' in Simplified Chinese, his probable [[Traditional Chinese characters|Traditional Chinese]] name is '''叶干''', '''葉干''', '''叶乾''' or '''葉乾'''.
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::We had better comfirm '''叶干''' is '''Simplified Chinese''' name in the template. ([[Simplified Chinese characters|Simplified Chinese]]: 叶干). [[User:Hoising|hoising]] ([[User talk:Hoising|talk]]) 11:51, 2 October 2011 (UTC)
:::For most cases, it's not necessary to give both traditional and simplified; for instance, if a person is from the PRC we usually only give his/her simplified name, and if a person is from Taiwan or Hong Kong we usually only give traditional. In such cases, I don't see why it's necessary to know what the other version is. Even though the template only displays "[[Simplified Chinese characters|Chinese]]", the link points to Simplified, as you will notice if you hold your mouse over the link for a moment. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
:::''Xié'' 叶 is pretty unusual in modern Chinese, so I don't think '''that's''' a particularly good example, but ''gān/gàn'' certainly could be a problem (<b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
::::叶 is ''yè'' and it's a common family name (and a common word). 干 is, to the best of my knowledge, not a common name.
::::Obviously the difference matters in a dictionary, but Wikipedia is not a dictionary, and for the reasons I explained above I don't think it's relevant in the lede of an article to know whether a name given is in traditional or simplified characters. In the vast majority of cases it isn't; besides, most of this detail belongs in a box like {{tlx|Chinese}}, not in prose. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
:::::<b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
::::::I see. I thought that may have been what you may have meant, but then I didn't find 叶 ''xié'' in either of the two traditional character dictionaries I checked, so it must be uncommon indeed like you said.
:::::::As for whether this ambiguity is a problem, I still don't see how it is; also, someone [[#Suggested enhancement|above]] specifically asked for the "traditional" and "simplified" to be removed to save space and reduce redundancy. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
{{od}}Well, ambiguity is, by definition, ambiguous, so there '''is''' an inherent "problem" there, but as [[User:rjanag]] said, it's very small. Isn't there a way to manually force the template to display the full "Simp/Trad Chinese" when using it in an article? If [[User:hoising]] could do so, it might ease his mind. <small><b><span style="border:1px solid;background:#030303"><span style="color:white"> White Whirlwind </span>[[User talk:White_whirlwind|<span style="color:#030303;background-color:white;"> 咨 </span>]]</span></b></small> 16:00, 4 October 2011 (UTC)
:It's possible, but the solution would be messy. A better alternative would just be to have another version of this template (either an actual different template, or just a different set of behavior that could be called by setting some parameter in this like {{para|usefullnames|yes}}). This alternative is in fact already implemented; I'm pretty sure '''{{tlx|zh-full}}''' has the sort of display you are looking for, and it also allows flexibility in how names are displayed (i.e., you can manually change "Simplified Chinese:" to whatever you want, in any given instance of the template). <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
:* It is so common to generate mistakes in Hong Kong, a region accept both traditional Chinese and simplified Chinese. I think there are no any reason that wikipedia change other people's names and we should fix the wrong template. We have '''t=''', '''s=''' and '''c=''', and someone can use '''c=''' if it is not clear enough. That all. [[User:Hoising|hoising]] ([[User talk:Hoising|talk]]) 14:44, 17 October 2011 (UTC)
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Is there a particular reason for Pinyin to be the only romanization that's italicized? I feel like all of them should either be italicized or not italicized, not a mix of the two. [[User:Arsonal|Arsonal]] ([[User talk:Arsonal|talk]]) 07:48, 28 September 2009 (UTC)
:I did think about that after I added the pinyin italics, but I'm not totally sure about standards. I agree that it's best to italicize all, but I'm not sure if there are some that aren't usually italicized; I'll leave a quick query at WT:CHINESE and then see. <b class="Unicode">[[User:Rjanag|r<
::Please de-italicize the pinyin in this template. It renders the diacritics difficult to read, and we generally don't italicize pinyin at WP. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 02:27, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
:::I added [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Zh&diff=321123396&oldid=315962203 this] to make italicization optional. (The default is now set to no italics; this can be changed if there is a consensus to do so). Italics can now be forced by either adding a {{para|ital|yes}} parameter to the template call, or by just putting <nowiki>'' ''</nowiki> around the pinyin text in the template. <b class="Unicode">[[User:Rjanag|r<
::Thank you. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 02:43, 3 November 2009 (UTC)
::Pinyin should be de-italicized. It is not easily readable when italicized, and WP practice for years has been to not italicize it. [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] ([[User talk:Badagnani|talk]]) 03:39, 19 December 2009 (UTC)
:::Yes, you said that before, but recently I checked [[WP:CHINESE]] and that page says the opposite. If you wish to contest the guideline please do it there first, and once that guideline is changed this template will be updated to conform to it. <b class="Unicode">[[User:Rjanag|r<
:::Pinyin is always italicized in academic writing and tone marks are not used unless the character or word is obscure. Additionally, there should not be spaces after each syllable, but after each word. For example, we write ''pinyin'', not ''pin yin''. For my part, I think the double-bracket "zh" template needs to lose simplified/full character options and the pinyin option - it makes it feel like a poorly designed dictionary. Just my two cents. [[User:White whirlwind|White whirlwind]] ([[User talk:White whirlwind|talk]]) 06:17, 18 June 2010 (UTC)
::::You are saying the template should show neither romanizations nor simplified and traditional (not "full") variants? Why? This would be alienating to non-Chinese-speaking readers. Also, if all it shows is one form of characters and nothing else, there is no point anymore for a template at all. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
::I agree that all the romanizations should be italicized, per [[MOS:FOREIGN]]. Regarding the tone marks, my experience is that they're omitted when the word is integrated into the English text (indicated by roman font), e.g. "Beijing" and other proper names, but included when it is treated as foreign (indicated by italics). [[User talk:Kanguole|Kanguole]] 10:12, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
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[[User:Kxx|Kxx]] ([[User talk:Kxx|talk]] | [[Special:Contributions/Kxx|contribs]]) 22:00, 21 July 2012 (UTC)
:I think I got all of them [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Zh&diff=503502541&oldid=445094755]. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
{{od}} Disabling as this appears to be fixed? Please let me know if there are still problems. [[User:Thumperward|Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward)]] ([[User talk:Thumperward|talk]]) 11:45, 22 July 2012 (UTC)
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[[Zhuyin fuhao]], in the template when zhu= is used, is a redirect. Could it be bypassed to [[Bopomofo]]? I noticed it on that page where the link is not showing up in bold as it should when a template's included in a page. It's the only one with this problem, based on the examples in the documentation (I'm using [[User:Anomie/linkclassifier.js]] which colours links to show what they are so shows which are redirects).--<small>[[User:JohnBlackburne|JohnBlackburne]]</small><sup>[[User_talk:JohnBlackburne|words]]</sup><sub style="margin-left:-2.0ex;">[[Special:Contributions/JohnBlackburne|deeds]]</sub> 03:03, 23 July 2012 (UTC)
:I think it's fixed now [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AZh&diff=504102666&oldid=503502541] (using a piped link, so it still displays as "Zhuyin Fuhao"); thanks for the suggestion. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
== Minor formatting bug when s=t ==
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::Sorry about the delay, I didn't notice your comment.
::I fixed it [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Norman_Bethune&diff=504103121&oldid=504103074 here] in the article. I don't really consider this a bug in the template; for the sake of non-Chinese speaking Wikipedia readers the template ought to always have some form of romanization in it, and in this example the reason the extra semicolon was there was because only the Chinese was included. So rather than changing the template I just added Pinyin (which for MOS reasons I think ought to have been there anyway). <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
== Non-minor display bug ==
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When using <nowiki>|links=no</nowiki> in conjunction with s and t, where s ≠ t, the template only shows "Chinese: ", and not the two+ written forms. ''GotR'' <sup>[[User talk:Guerrilla of the Renmin|Talk]]</sup> 05:35, 26 July 2012 (UTC)
:Can you give me an example of where this is happening? I just tried <code><nowiki>{{zh|s=学生|t=學生|links=no}}</nowiki></code> in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Rjanag/Sandbox&diff=504246423&oldid=471892745 my sandbox] and was unable to replicate this problem. <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
:Never mind, I found the problem and repaired it [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Suizhou&diff=504247275&oldid=504227521]. The problem was that you were using a Chinese ＝ instead of a regular =. Best, <b class="IPA">[[Special:Contributions/Rjanag|r<
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