Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Queer coding: Difference between revisions
Content deleted Content added
Tags: Mobile edit Mobile web edit |
Stalwart111 (talk | contribs) m Just relocating close template |
||
| (18 intermediate revisions by 7 users not shown) | |||
Line 1:
<div class="boilerplate afd vfd xfd-closed" style="background-color: #F3F9FF; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px solid #AAAAAA;">
===[[:Queer coding]]===▼
:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''
<!--Template:Afd top
Note: If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to re-nominate an article for deletion, you must manually edit the AfD nomination links to create a new discussion page using the name format of [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PAGENAME (2nd nomination)]]. When you create the new discussion page, please provide a link to this old discussion in your nomination. -->
The result was '''keep'''. Technically a [[WP:SNOW]] close, but a [[WP:SPEEDY]] close might also be justifiable. Two rationales for deletion are given. One is [[WP:IDONTLIKEIT]]; even when the dislike is based on (potentially legitimate) NPOV concerns that is not a rationale for deletion. The other rationale was that it was a duplicate; the other article named was the duplicate and has been redirected here. Consensus is clear that this is a notable topic. As there are discussions elsewhere, I am closing this early. <small>[[Wikipedia:NACD|(non-admin closure)]]</small> [[User:力]] (power~enwiki, [[User talk:力|<span style="color:#FA0;font-family:courier">π</span>]], [[Special:Contributions/力|<span style="font-family:courier">ν</span>]]) 00:31, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
▲===[[:Queer coding]]===
<noinclude>{{AFD help}}</noinclude>
:{{la|Queer coding}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Queer coding|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2021 July 17#{{anchorencode:Queer coding}}|View log]]</noinclude>)
Line 17 ⟶ 22:
*'''Draftify'''. While the topic may be notable, the sources currently in the article aren't what we'd consider reliable or independent. This article needs a lot of work on sourcing. ~[[User:Anachronist|Anachronist]] <small>([[User talk:Anachronist|talk]])</small> 21:41, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
*'''Draftify''' - While I want to give this topic “benefit of the doubt” (it certainly ''deserves to be'' notable) it needs independent reliable sourcing to properly ''establish'' that notability. [[User:Blueboar|Blueboar]] ([[User talk:Blueboar|talk]]) 22:15, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' as per above. [[User:The Drover's Wife|The Drover's Wife]] ([[User talk:The Drover's Wife|talk]]) 22:37, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' Since some editors seem not to have noticed my !vote above and are insisting that we don't have sourcing:
**https://theconversation.com/luca-disney-and-queerbaiting-in-animation-164349
**https://academic.oup.com/adaptation/article-abstract/13/1/98/5540147
**https://www.buzzfeed.com/sam_cleal/queer-coded-disney-characters
**http://www.quailbellmagazine.com/the-real/social-issues-queerness-and-media-representation
**https://www.insider.com/luca-lgbt-gay-queer-coded-2021-6
**https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=w-n5DwAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PT263&dq=%22queer+coding%22+%22disney%22&ots=EoH5v2hL4L&sig=PzgYhxsOmoRQAtKcXuWypn26vH4#v=onepage&q=%22queer%20coding%22%20%22disney%22&f=false
**https://slate.com/culture/2021/06/luca-movie-disney-pixar-gay-allegory.html
**https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/the-strange-difficult-history-of-queer-coding
**https://collider.com/queer-coded-villains-in-film-erasure/
**https://www.vox.com/culture/21417212/what-are-the-gayest-disney-films-mulan-queer-subtext
**https://www.insider.com/the-evolution-of-queer-characters-in-kids-animated-tv-shows-2021-6
**https://www.buzzfeed.com/sam_cleal/tv-characters-who-should-be-queer
**https://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/luca-queer-tweets
**https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/t-magazine/gay-children-book-authors.html
**https://www.nytimes.com/2017/10/13/t-magazine/art/frankenstein-monster-queer-art.html
**https://www.usatoday.com/story/entertainment/movies/2019/07/17/new-lion-king-biggest-changes-from-original-animated-movie/1738202001/
**https://www.wired.com/story/loki-marvel-queer-character/
**https://www.cjr.org/special_report/queer-media-bachelor-magazine.php
:Note that this is the result of less than 10 minutes of google searching, and there are some scholarly results in there, as well. [[User:MjolnirPants|<span style="color:#004400;">'''ᛗᛁᛟᛚᚾᛁᚱPants'''</span>]] <small><small>[[User_talk:MjolnirPants|''Tell me all about it.'']]</small></small> 22:49, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
*'''Poor unfortunate nomination. So [[WP:DISRUPTIVE]], so [[WP:IDONTLIKEIT]]'''. This is just a user having a hissy fit towards the fact that his childhood, "traditions and values" is being somehow pissed on. We don't determine deletion based on a person's feelings; we determine it based on the coverage of the topic. Look at how freaking easy it was to find reliable sources about this topic. You'd have to try hard not to find any of them. [https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C33&q=%22Queer+coding%22&btnG= Two results of the first page of a Google Scholar search are pieces '''MAINLY''' about queer coding]. Hell, you don't even need to go to Google Scholar. [https://www.google.com/search?q=%22Queer+coding%22&sxsrf=ALeKk00gtT4znB9f7RBNclHsMyWOFXmSKg%3A1626563463265&ei=h2PzYI-9D5Kl5NoPkOCSuAM&oq=%22Queer+coding%22&gs_lcp=Cgdnd3Mtd2l6EAMyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgQIABBDMgIIADICCAA6BQgAELADOgkIABCwAxAHEB5KBAhBGAFQrAJYrAJggwRoAHAAeACAAVKIAfEBkgEBM5gBAKABAaoBB2d3cy13aXrIAQrAAQE&sclient=gws-wiz&ved=0ahUKEwjPnLqLnevxAhWSElkFHRCwBDcQ4dUDCA4&uact=5 It only took me reading the first page of a Google search where I just typed in the phrase] where I got four features '''mainly''' about queer coding. [https://www.pride.com/movies/2021/5/05/lets-talk-about-queer-coding-its-history-film-and-tv] [https://www.syfy.com/syfywire/the-strange-difficult-history-of-queer-coding] [https://collider.com/queer-coded-villains-in-film-erasure/] [https://www.dccomics.com/blog/2021/06/25/the-rise-and-fall-of-comic-book-queer-coding] three of which aren't even LGBTQ-themed publications. '''Just close this bullshit'''. [[User:HumanxAnthro|👨x🐱]] ([[User talk:HumanxAnthro|talk]]) 23:23, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
**'''Additional comment'''. The nominator, in [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Madonna as a gay icon|!voting Delete on the article Madonna as a gay icon]], used the same nonsensical [[moral outrage]] that had nothing to do with the topic's notability or coverage. This is indicative that they are [[WP:NOTHERE]] to build an encyclopedia. I mean, look at this crazy stuff:
:::{{tq|I have never seen such blasphemy in my life. Painting a person like Judy Garland as a homosexual is blasphemy and a defamation against the woman who was married to a man! This is utter cursing, and I know how I feel when someone says I am LGBT. These articles foment division and hatred towards the heterosexual people and is a sign that these criminals are desperate to see at least 10% of the world population converted to LGBT before their mortal lifespan is finished. If this continues the fiefdom of LGBT will dominate and completely make Wikipedia's suffix meaningless.<br>Just take a look what they have done to American animation. Armed with their liberal news media they have completely hijacked films such as Luca and Mitchells vs. Machines. No longer does it mean to say that if you have a girlfriend or a boyfriend, it means that you are gay because you are the same gender! What utter nonsense. Thousands of prominent authors stated they have boyfriends and girlfriends. Can we rule them as homosexuals? No, only if ultra liberal news media like NBC come to their defense and spin tales of how the rainbow is LGBT...if you see a rainbow outside...or wait if you wear a rainbow pin...Oh that must be LGBT! This is the frenzy of avarice they have against the human kind who continue to live the life nature intended.}}
::The user is clearly trying to input they're own point of view onto the encylopedia, and ironically is themselves violating [[WP:NPOV]] [[User:HumanxAnthro|👨x🐱]] ([[User talk:HumanxAnthro|talk]]) 23:30, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' nomination seems to be based heavily on the nominator’s ignorant LGBTQ-phobic opinions barely hidden behind flimsy claims of “NPOV”/“inadequate sourcing”. [[User:Dronebogus|Dronebogus]] ([[User talk:Dronebogus|talk]]) 23:23, 17 July 2021 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' The notion that queerness did not exist "in those days" is misguided and ill-informed at best. The appeal to "traditions and values" suggests we are not dealing with a best case scenario. [[User:Richard Nevell|Richard Nevell]] ([[User talk:Richard Nevell|talk]]) 00:09, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
*<s>'''Delete'''</s> Where are my supporters? I thought I had some traditional supporters by my side? This is unbelievable. I am like the only person in Wikipedia who tries to delete [[NPOV]] articles related to LGBT. The citations used were - 1)https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DxokB7sfopc 2)https://andreasdeja.blogspot.com/2012/11/the-evolution-of-jafar.html 3)https://ohmy.disney.com/movies/2015/10/13/8-things-you-didnt-know-about-aladdin/ 4)https://controlforever.com/read/queercoding-and-horror-films/ . Do you not see those citations are not valid in Wikipedia?
:Note user [[User:MjolnirPants]] noted this citation: https://www.insider.com/luca-lgbt-gay-queer-coded-2021-6 is good to be used in queer coding. If you look at [[Luca (2021 film)]], the director explicitly denied the main character isn't LGBT, then how can that citation that says Luca is LGBT and queer coded be valid? All these citations are following [[WP:SYNTH]] which is using a variety of sources to imply a suggestion that characters are queer-coded when they are not! Whatever you do do not ruin Classical Golden Age Disney. There is zero evidence that the characters Jafar and Scar are LGBT and to the extent therefore they are queer-coded. [[User:7falcon23|7falcon23]] ([[User talk:7falcon23|talk]]) 00:28, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
*Do '''NOT''' do duplicate votes when you've already nominated the article for deletion. That is an abuse of the deletion process. There is no [[WP:SYNTH]] going on here; all of the sources provided state the concept is real and that those characters, while maybe not really LGBT, are queer-coded, and no one, as well as not the article, is stating the characters are actually LBGT, just that they have traits and characteristics that "codes" them as LGBT. Just using multiple sources is not automatically synthesis. You're not even understanding the concept of queer coding properly. [[User:HumanxAnthro|👨x🐱]] ([[User talk:HumanxAnthro|talk]]) 00:36, 18 July 2021 (UTC)
{{clear}}
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <b style="color:red">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''<!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>
| |||