Module talk:Citation/CS1/Feature requests: Difference between revisions

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This page is used to make requests for new features for the Lua based CS1 templates. Please understand that the priority is to update and debug the older templates before implementing new features. Completed feature requests are archived at [[Module talk:Citation/CS1/Feature_requests/Completed]]

== Asian titlesLanguage ==

Titles should be wrapped with markup indicating the language. --'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]} 14:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

Main work titles are formatted in italics. This is not appropriate for Asian scripts such as kanji, hangul and the like. Asian titles may also be underlined or placed in brackets 『』 or 《》.

:How would this actually work? You have some template examples in mind maybe? [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 18:57, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

See {{tl|Asiantitle}} for current support. --'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]} 14:36, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::See {{tl|lang}}. --<span style="color:Turquoise">''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|Gadget850]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]}</span> 23:38, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

:::Let me be a bit more specific. First, which elements would you have the {{para|1=language=}} apply markup to? Title? Title and Chapter? Title and Periodical? Secondly, do you want to use the existing templates, e.g. actually call <code><nowiki>{{lang|es|Title}}</nowiki></code> when getting {{para|language|Spanish}}? Or is it sufficient to bypass the templates and just add a span and (sometimes) a category? Also, is there a automated way of knowing that "Spanish" maps to "es", etc.? [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 23:52, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

::::I was looking at that. We will have to roll our own, as I don't see a template that converts the full language name to the ISO form. Or, we could create a new 'lang' parameter that uses the ISO and overrides 'language'. I would think we could apply <code>dir="rtl"</code> where applicable. Might be best to do this in a separate module that could be used elsewhere. --<span style="color:Turquoise">''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|Gadget850]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]}</span> 00:53, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

:::::I habitually enter, say, {{para|language|es}}, then have to go back and change it :-( Your proposed new {{para|lang}} parameter would be much appreciated. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 16:19, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

:I think this ought to wait until someone converts the language template tree to Lua, so we have a good list of code-to-language mappings. What's needed basically already exists, but as presently implemented its scattered across hundreds of lang subtemplates, which isn't very usable for us. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 22:32, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

== Language ==

::I'm not sure what "the language template tree" is, but there's already a language name library available in Lua: {{((}}#invoke:Sandbox/Liangent/LanguageName|languageName|es}} -> {{#invoke:Sandbox/Liangent/LanguageName|languageName|es}}. <span class="signature signature_2539476">[[User:Liangent|Liangent]] ([[User talk:Liangent|talk]])</span> 12:55, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

{{resolved}} I believe that this request has been implemented. Example:

Titles should be wrapped with markup indicating the language. --'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]} 14:37, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

{{cite compare|mode=book|title=La Casa de Mi Padre|author=Will Ferrell|language=es}}

== Presentation and content ==

– [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 04:34, 20 December 2013 (UTC)

The CSS styling for {{tag|cite|o}} has been defaulted, so it now formats the contents as italics, while adding the semantic meaning of a title. Thus the current use of italics to format <ins>the main work</ins> title can be replaced by {{tag|cite}}.

The code to language conversion is done, but not the language markup.

The above example, renders as (less COinS):

:<pre><span class="citation book">Will Ferrell. ''La Casa de Mi Padre'' (in Spanish).</span></pre>

What we need is:

:<pre><span class="citation book">Will Ferrell. ''<span lang="es" >La Casa de Mi Padre</span>'' (in Spanish).</span></pre>

See {{tl|lang}}.

--<span style="color:Turquoise">''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|Gadget850]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]}</span> 13:12, 20 April 2014 (UTC)

: Is it possible to reinstigate discussion on this change? At the moment, providing human-readable language tagging is done (as [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] pointed out on 20 December 2013) and [[WP:COinS|COinS]]-tagging means that we can't use {{tl|lang}} within CS1 templates (like {{!mxt|1={{((}}cite book {{!}}title={{((}}lang{{!}}es{{!}}La Casa de Mi Padre{{))}} {{!}}trans_title=My Father's Home {{!}}author=Will Ferrell {{!}}language=es {{))}} }}) because it would pollute the machine-readable data; we need to use {{mxt|1={{((}}cite book {{!}}title=La Casa de Mi Padre {{!}}trans_title=My Father's Home {{!}}author=Will Ferrell {{!}}language=es {{))}} }} instead.

: What would be great would be to change the output markup so that this example above goes from rendering (without the COinS): <syntaxhighlight lang="html">

<cite class="citation book">Will Ferrell. <i>La Casa de Mi Padre</i> [<i>My Father's Home</i>] (in Spanish).</cite>

</syntaxhighlight> to rendering <syntaxhighlight lang="html" indent="1">

<cite class="citation book">Will Ferrell. <i lang="es" xml:lang="es">La Casa de Mi Padre</i> [<i>My Father's Home</i>] (in Spanish).</cite>

</syntaxhighlight> for example. This would allow assistive technologies correctly to identify the language of the title (and, for example, user CSS to style text differently according to language). Alternatively, rather than assuming that the <code>title</code> (and only the <code>title</code>) will match the <code>language</code>, new parameters could be added such as {{para|title_lang}}, {{para|chapter_lang}} and {{para|journal_lang}}, for example.

: I'm entirely open to discussing the details, as I've just made these up on the spot, but in principle this feels like something we could make work, no? :o)

: — <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:OwenBlacker|OwenBlacker]]</span> <small>([[User talk:OwenBlacker|Talk]])</small></span> 14:32, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

{{mdt|Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#Language}}

:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 16:43, 7 February 2016 (UTC)

== Name suffixes ==

The COinS implementation guide specifies that, at least for the first author of a work, it should be possible to separate their name into first name(s), last name, and suffix. When the <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> templates were created, they were regarded solely as presentational, and separate parameters for suffixes weren't thought to be worth implementing. Scanning the ends of first1, first2, editor1,...and so forth for "Sr", "Jr", "II", and "III" should probably pick up most of the citations where suffixes should be moved to their own parameters. [[User:Choess|Choess]] ([[User talk:Choess|talk]]) 15:26, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

:We should still add parameters for those oddball suffixes. --''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]} 16:58, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

::Sorry, I combined two thoughts. We'd need new "suffix*" parameters for names in general, which could be used for any suffix. The scanning I mentioned could be for a (temporary?) maintenance category to identify citations that would need to be edited to use the new parameters. [[User:Choess|Choess]] ([[User talk:Choess|talk]]) 17:15, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

:::See [[Suffix (name)]]. We have no guidelines for suffixes, but you are discussing generational suffixes. I need to check some style guides to see if we should include academic, professional, religious or honorary suffixes. --''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]} 17:20, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

::::OpenURL (COinS) only provides a field for "name suffixes", not titles or degrees. [[User:Choess|Choess]] ([[User talk:Choess|talk]]) 17:32, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

==Internet Archive==

Can someone familiar with this module add code to enable Internet Archive links for books etc. For example, the open library code [http://openlibrary.org/books/OL16525337M/A_concise_etymological_dictionary_of_the_English_language OL16525337M] is the book "A concise etymological dictionary of the English language", which also has LCCN [http://lccn.loc.gov/11035890 11035890] and Internet Archive code [http://www.archive.org/details/cu31924008779690 cu31924008779690]. Thanks. [[User:Mindmatrix|<span style="color: #8b4513;">Mind</span>]][[User_talk:Mindmatrix|<span style="color: #ee8811;">matrix</span>]] 03:20, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

:And Google Books [http://books.google.com/books?id=ls_XijT33IUC ls_XijT33IUC]. What other archive systems are used? --''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]} 09:42, 2 April 2013 (UTC)

::at [[WebCite]] users can archive single webpages. the Internet Archive also crawls for site/page snapshots and these may follow the rate of change of the originals. Google Books is different, as it may act more like an online publisher than an archival service. [[Special:Contributions/70.19.122.39|70.19.122.39]] ([[User talk:70.19.122.39|talk]]) 00:25, 3 April 2013 (UTC)

Here is the id_handler example for LCCN from [[Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration]].

<pre>

parameters = {'LCCN', 'lccn'} How specified in the citation template, i.e. LCCN=

link = 'Library of Congress Control Number' Wikipage to link to at the ID label

label = 'LCCN' Text to use for the ID label

mode = 'external' Indicates an external link (the typical case)

prefix = 'http://lccn.loc.gov/' Start of the url to use with the ID

suffix = '' Anything to include in the url after the ID

COinS = 'rft.lccn' Where to map the data in [[COinS]]

encode = false Whether the ID must be urlencoded

separator = '&amp;nbsp;' Separator to use between the ID label and the ID

</pre>

When given LCCN=123456, this generates output that looks like:

<nowiki>[[Library of Congress Control Number|LCCN]]&nbsp;[http://lccn.loc.gov/123456 123456]</nowiki> = [[Library of Congress Control Number|LCCN]]&nbsp;[http://lccn.loc.gov/123456 123456]

If you can figure out how to update the fields for Internet Archive, Google Books, or some other ID scheme, then they would be easy to add. A few ID schemes (including Open Library) don't easily map to this format and have to be specially handled, so that is possible too, but it would take more effort. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 19:13, 8 April 2013 (UTC)

:Internet Archive has various media (text, audio, video), but they all appear to have the same URL pattern (<nowiki>http://www.archive.org/details/identifier</nowiki>). Should we create one entry and disregard type, or create separate entries for each, some of which may have subtypes? (For example, some of the audio files could use a handler for [[Live Music Archive]] instead of [[Internet Archive]].) I think one handler is probably the better option. [[User:Mindmatrix|<span style="color: #8b4513;">Mind</span>]][[User_talk:Mindmatrix|<span style="color: #ee8811;">matrix</span>]] 15:53, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

::In general, I tend to think that less is more in cases like this unless there is a strong reason to differentiate. However, I don't really know much about the Internet Archive, so I'm not really a good person to judge. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 16:37, 10 April 2013 (UTC)

== Format size ==

Add 'formatsize' to indicate the size of the linked document. This should show right after 'format' and in the parenthesis. There is already a bot filling in PDF sizes for another template, so it can be repurposed to detect if 'format' is defined, then add 'formatsize' if it isn't already defined. --<span style="color:Turquoise">''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|Gadget850]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]}</span> 18:24, 26 April 2013 (UTC)

:<code>(format, formatsize)</code>? (Feature request brought to you by [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2013 April 24#Template:PDFlink]].) --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 13:41, 27 April 2013 (UTC)

:{{para|formatsize}} presumably to be filled in for known file types (PDF, XLS, ...), and ''not'' for things not in the list like {{para|format}}hardcover, handout, etc. For streaming media, the file size is rarely known up front, unless it's hosted as a file (such as on Commons), so perhaps ''not'' filled in for {{para|format}}video, but perhaps for AVI, MP4, etc. --[[User:Lexein|Lexein]] ([[User talk:Lexein|talk]]) 03:36, 28 April 2013 (UTC)

::''video'' is not a format, but a medium, and should be inserted as a value for '''type''' (per the so-called documentation). video formats are: (various) tape formats, (various) disc formats, film etc. AVI, MP4, etc. are not video formats: they are digital file formats and should be used with the appropriate (digital) '''type''' = webcast/e-video/downloadable media etc.

::the confusion begins with '''type''', a parameter name that only a geek would love, since it can mean anything. apparently, aliasing it with "medium" would be too obvious for some people.

::get yer stories straight!

::[[Special:Contributions/70.19.122.39|70.19.122.39]] ([[User talk:70.19.122.39|talk]]) 12:54, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

:It occurs to me that we might alleviate some of the confusion going forward by aliasing {{para|format}} as {{para|fileformat}} to emphasize that we are talking about a digital file. If that were done, a new size parameter could be called {{para|filesize}}. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 15:52, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

::'urlformat' might be better, since it indicates that it modifies 'url', since there seems to be confusion. Then 'urlsize'. --<span style="color:Turquoise">''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|Gadget850]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]}</span> 16:08, 29 April 2013 (UTC)

:::I'm not sure about 'urlformat' (as opposed to 'fileformat'). My initial reaction is that 'urlformat' suffers much the same problem as 'format', in that people may be inclined to assume it means the format of the work described at the other end of the URL and put things like "book" or "video" in there. 'fileformat' seems closer to the intended use. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 22:06, 20 May 2013 (UTC)

== ORCID ==

We should add an [[ORCID]] parameter for each author (and possibly one for ISNI) as discussed at [[Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 2#ORCID]] <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 15:41, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

:If I understand correctly, the proposal is to create a parameter for each author that could specify their associated ORCID, and if there is no local wikilink for that author then to add an external link from the author's name to the associated ORCID database entry? [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 02:20, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

::Why would it be dependent on the authorlink? If the page is ported to another site, that link may not exist. --<span style="color:Turquoise">''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|Gadget850]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]}</span> 02:28, 21 May 2013 (UTC)

:::If there is an article about an author, then the ORCID link will be on that page. It seems unnecessary to include it in every reference, but I'd be content that we did, if that's what others want. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 13:21, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

::Yes. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 13:21, 29 May 2013 (UTC)

Wow: nearly three years on, and no further responses. A resolution for this matter is now being discussed at [[Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive_18#‎Proposal: addition of 'author-id' parameter|Help talk:Citation Style 1#‎Proposal: addition of 'author-id' parameter]]. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 10:47, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

:Discussion was archived, unresolved. Link updated. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 16:25, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

== HTML classes ==

We should add HTML classes, identifying the various parameter values, by way of a [[microformat]], as discussed at [[Module talk:Citation/CS1/Archive 6#HTML classes]]. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 16:13, 17 May 2013 (UTC)

:When might we see some movement on this? <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 10:48, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

::Is there a written standard that maps cs1|2 parameters to microformat tags?

::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 11:58, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

:::Please see [[Module talk:Citation/CS1/Archive 6#HTML classes]]. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 17:56, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

::::What I read there suggests that there isn't a written standard yet.

::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 20:18, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

:::::Indeed; as discussed previously (three & four years ago!) we should mint one; and as I said there, {{Tq|"I've started a brainstorming page at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Microformats/citation]], with a draft proposal for discussion and an example"}}. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 20:50, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

::::::When [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Microformats/citation]] is done let us know. It will help you to consider each of the meta parameters listed in [[Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration]] in the aliases table (the meta parameters are the lvalues: <code><nowiki>['AccessDate']</nowiki></code>, etc). Clearly not every cs1|2 meta parameter will need a class because some of them don't display anything to the reader.

::::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 22:20, 11 April 2016 (UTC)

:::::::Only just seen your reply, so apologies for the delayed response. I've started a ''provisional'' mapping at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Microformats/citation#Mapping]]. However, I'm not clear what some of those aliases mean, nor when they're used. Is there any additional documentation? Many of the module's properties won't have a direct equivalent in the microformat; we could simply prepend "p-", so for example "Mode" would map to "p-mode". <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 16:18, 1 August 2016 (UTC)

== Wikisource ==

:See also above [[#Template:Cite wikisource]]

The {{tl|Cite wikisource}} is not used for many of the templates that call wikisource (See for example {{tl|EB1911}} -- There are currently over 12,000 articles in [[:Category:Wikipedia articles incorporating text from the 1911 Encyclopædia Britannica]] of which over 3,000 link to wikisource).

For wikisource to be used for templates such as {{tl|EB1911}} it would need to be refocused. The reason why it is not used very much is because not all the articles in these large encyclopaedias have been ported to Wikisource. So we need two parameters one to handle the case were the text is available on wikisource and one where it is not. As over time more more encyclopaedias and other large works will gradually be made available on Wikisource, this problem of gradual availability will not go away in the foreseeable future.

The way this problem is currently handled is to use {{tl|cite encyclopaedia}} and place a wrapper around it (I have [User:PBS/Notes#List of PD Templates|list of dozens] on my notes page), most of which use as a de facto standard:

*title= — is used for non-wikisource articles

*wstitle= — is used for wikisource articles

The different scripts wrapped around {{tl|cite encyclopaedia}} handle the specific requirements, but most are similar (and some of these parameters are hard coded):

*iconstr — can be one of two icons [[Image:wikisource-logo.svg|12px|link=]] and [[Image:PD-icon.svg|12px|link=]] depending on whether wstitle is set.

*noicon — to turn off the display of the lead icon.

*prescript — for handling attribution as per [[WP:PLAGIARISM]]. In most cases this string is "{{green|This article incorporates text from a publication now in the [[public ___domain]]:&nbsp;}}"

*inline — alters the wording of the prescript from "This article" to "One or more of the preceding sentences"

*wstitle — if the title is on wikisource, otherwise use "title="

*prewstitle — needed for the wikisource prestring starts <code><nowiki>[[s:...</nowiki></code>

*postwstitle — needed for the wikisource poststing ends <code><nowiki> ...]]</nowiki></code>

*display — used as a display in place of "wstitle=" so that things like disambiguation extensions can be hidden.

*Sometimes the handling of the Wikisource string, involves including other parameter(s)such as {{{year}}} or {{{volume}}} or whatever into prewstitle or postwstitle — see for example {{tl|Cite PSM}}. Most of the templates that use "wstitle=" will only set the "url=" it "title=" is set.

It seems to me that it should be fairly easy to incorporate these requirements into this module and allow much of the code in the current scripts could be junked as it would allow all the other parameters standard to be passed in without the need to do so explicitly (as had to be done previously). -- [[User:PBS|PBS]] ([[User talk:PBS|talk]]) 13:22, 14 June 2013 (UTC)

== Separator suppression ==

If the value ends in punctuation, then suppress the separator/postscript to prevent extra punctuation. Example:

{{markup

|<nowiki><{{cite>Title</cite> AV media |title=[[Whaam!]] |last=Lichtenstein |first=Roy}}</nowiki>

|{{cite AV media |title=[[Whaam!]] |last=Lichtenstein |first=Roy}}

|<cite>Title</cite>

}}

--'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]} 01:04, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

* '''What a contorted way to confuse everyone everywhere:''' Everyone knows that most titles are to be placed in quotation marks, as article titles which far outnumber others. Historically, book titles were underlined, because in handwritten documents, the [[cursive]] script is somewhat italicized, and the underlined text was obviously a book/film title. In the search for distinctive vocabulary, we have been calling each "{&#123;cite_web|...}}" with the term "cite" as the markup used to display a citation. Then we introduce a cite-tag "&lt;cite>" which forces the rare use of italic text, to all text, within <code>&lt;cite>...&lt;/cite></code>. Naturally, most normal humans will begin to associate the term "cite text" with the styling as italic text. What a contorted way to confuse everyone, everywhere. I have a strong hunch the cite-tag will not be very much help in the long run. -[[User:Wikid77|Wikid77]] ([[User talk:Wikid77|talk]]) 04:12, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

:{{tag|cite|o}} would be used internally in the template, so I am confused as to how anyone would be confused. It has an HTML semantic value indicating the title of a work.[http://www.w3.org/TR/html-markup/cite.html] If we want to add the semantics for an included work title which is marked in quotes, then we can easily style the tag. And with almost half a million uses of cite book alone, I would not call the italic title rare. --'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]} 09:30, 28 March 2013 (UTC)

::Isn't this the problem the IP was discussing earlier, where we're really using the "title" paremeter for multiple semantic functions? [[User:Choess|Choess]] ([[User talk:Choess|talk]]) 18:11, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:::I refactored the original proposal to indicate that by ''title'' I meant the main work title. Currently, we have no [[separation of presentation and content]]. That is, the format of the main work title is always italics, and the included work is always in quotes. This presentation should be moved to CSS. Wrapping the main work title in {{tag|cite}} will present the title in italics by default. We can add a class to present the included title in quotes.

:::Since this would be a new feature, I will be moving this to [[Module talk:Citation/CS1/Feature requests]]. --'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]} 18:53, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

::::To expand on [[separation of presentation and content]]: currently the templates include both content and presentation, that is the markup used to style the content as italics, in quotes or bold. Hard coding the presentation means that readers cannot style citations as they desire and it limits template portability. Presentation should be done in CSS. Currently the {{tag|cite|o}} tag has a default style of italics and has the semantic meaning of a title.

::::For an included work title that is presented in quotes, we can create a class with CSS styling. For example the class <code>includedtitle</code>:

{{syntaxhighlight|lang=css|

.includedtitle:before {font-style: normal; content: '\22';}

.includedtitle {font-style: normal;}

.includedtitle:after {font-style: normal; content: '\22';}

}}

--<span style="color:Turquoise">''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|Gadget850]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]}</span> 14:05, 21 July 2013 (UTC)

::::Then you simply wrap the content in {{tag|cite|params=class="includedtitle"}} causing the font to show as normal and the content wrapped in quotes.

::::{{small|The HTML classes discussion does not include a class for the included work title, so I made up an illustrative class.}} --'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]} 14:58, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

== HTMLConsistent classesdate ___location ==

This is a reminder, in case it hasn't been implemented yet, of the RfC re consistent date ___location, [[Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_3#RFC:_Consistent_date_location]]. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 14:18, 19 November 2013 (UTC)

Now that Lua has deployed, we should add (as well as, or instead of, COinS) HTML classes to our citation templates, to describe the various parameters. For example, instead of emitting, say,

== Detect and report wikilinks in author parameters ==

:<code><nowiki>Much ado about Nothing</nowiki></code>

Our documentation says not to use wikilinks in author parameters. We could create a hidden error message and category for articles that have wikilinks in author parameters. It may be possible for a bot to then convert these links to authorlink parameters.

we could emit:

See discussion at [[User_talk:Citation_bot#removal_of_authors]]. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 15:48, 30 January 2014 (UTC)

:<code><nowiki><span class="title">Much ado about Nothing</span></nowiki></code>

== UA features ==

The visual rendering would not change.

Create a UAfeatures parameter, where features depended upon by the referenced media to present the referenced information are specified. e.g. Cookies, Javascript, Flash. <small><span class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Mattmill30|Mattmill30]] ([[User talk:Mattmill30|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Mattmill30|contribs]]) 03:54, 17 November 2014‎ (UTC)</span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->

By agreeing (and sharing with the wider web community) a standard set of such class names, others can write tools to parse our citations, and allow them to be inserted into other documents or web services (or, indeed, into other Wikipedia articles). The makers of [[Zotero]], for example, have already expressed an interest in parsing citations that use such classes.

== Circa year ranges - CS1 date error at [[Development of the New Testament canon]] ==

As some of you may have realised, what I am talking about, a standard, shared, set of class names, is a [[microformat]]. I have written more about how we could use a citation microformat, at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Microformats#Proposal: citation microformat]]. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 23:39, 11 March 2013 (UTC)

:Get a specification together. Once this module is debugged and implemented, then we can look at adding this feature. Do we want to include HTML5 elements as well? --'''''—&nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|<span style="color:gray">Gadget850&nbsp;(Ed)</span>]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]} 15:55, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

::OK, I've started a brainstorming page at [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Microformats/citation]], with a draft proposal for discussion and an example. <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 17:12, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

:::So, can we now apply these classes? <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 14:37, 25 March 2013 (UTC)

:I could see supporting the use of an existing third party specification (COinS is already an example of this), but I don't really like the idea of inventing such a specification ourselves. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 17:23, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

::Why not? (In fact the draft is based on work done by the microformat community, which has moved on since my initial suggestion).<span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 17:49, 12 March 2013 (UTC)

[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] at [[Help talk:Citation Style 1]] sent me over here.

=== Example ===

I’d like to request the support of <i>circa</i> year ranges in CS1, for example "c. 303 – c. 325" (which is the format per [[MOS:DATERANGE]]).

It would be helpful if you could map out an example or two of what you propose to add.

The last paragraph of the lead of [[Development of the New Testament canon]] contains several CS1 date errors ("Check date values in: |date= (help)". For example, the citation <nowiki>{{Citation | author = Eusebius | title = Church History | at = 3.25.1–7 | year=c. 303–25}}</nowiki> renders as "{{Citation | author = Eusebius | title = Church History | at = 3.25.1–7 | year=c. 303–25}}". According to [[MOS:DATERANGE]] the preferred form would be "c. 303 – c. 325", although that produces the same error. "303–325" works, but omits the <i>circa</i>. "c. 303" works, but omits the range. I've tried various other combinations without success.

For example, given a citation like:

At least for the Eusebius reference, it's a series of several writings, and the approximate range of years in which they were written is known, but not the exact dates. For example, because of the dedication of the last part, it's known to have been completed before 325, but whether it was 323 or 324 is not known. Some of that is covered at [[Church History (Eusebius)]]. I believe the same applies to the start date. So using <i>circa</i> is reasonable.

*<nowiki>{{ cite book | isbn=978-1-4020-4520-2 | last1=Luhmann|first1= J. G.|last2=Russell|first2=C. T. | editor1-fisrt=J. H.|editor1-last=Shirley|editor2-first=R. W.|editor2-last=Fainbridge | publisher=Chapman and Hall | ___location=New York | year=1997 | url=http://www-spc.igpp.ucla.edu/personnel/russell/papers/venus_mag/ | work=Encyclopedia of Planetary Sciences | title=Venus: Magnetic Field and Magnetosphere | accessdate=2009-06-28 }}</nowiki>

*{{ cite book | isbn=978-1-4020-4520-2 | last1=Luhmann|first1= J. G.|last2=Russell|first2=C. T. | editor1-first=J. H.|editor1-last=Shirley|editor2-first=R. W.|editor2-last=Fainbridge | publisher=Chapman and Hall | ___location=New York | year=1997 | url=http://www-spc.igpp.ucla.edu/personnel/russell/papers/venus_mag/ | work=Encyclopedia of Planetary Sciences | title=Venus: Magnetic Field and Magnetosphere | accessdate=2009-06-28 }}

Any other suggestions welcome. [[User:Rwessel|Rwessel]] ([[User talk:Rwessel|talk]]) 21:02, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

Which parameters do you want to add classes to, how do you propose to deal with multiple authors/editors, how do you want to distinguish article titles from main work titles, etc.? [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] ([[User talk:Dragons flight|talk]]) 02:13, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:I support this request. We get requests related to "c." more frequently than any other date-related request than I can think of (now that ranges are generally supported). In many cases, we suggest using {{para|orig-year}} and putting the publication date of the actual publication being cited in {{para|date}}, but citation templates are often used to provide a consistent format for a list of publications within the body of an article, in which case {{para|orig-year}} is not desirable. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 23:14, 4 December 2014 (UTC)

{{od}}

I'm open to debate, but the HTML from your example is (whitespace added; irrelevant attributes omitted, for clarity):

::We could use the same date algorithm but simply allow ''c.'' and ''AD'' before the date and ''BC'', ''AD'', ''BCE'', and ''CE'' after the date (if I am reading [[WP:ERA]] correctly). --<span style="color:Turquoise">''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|Gadget850]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]}</span> 20:07, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

<pre><code><nowiki>

<span class="citation book">

Luhmann, J. G.; Russell, C. T. (1997).

<a class="external text vt-p" href="http:.../">"Venus: Magnetic Field and Magnetosphere"</a>.

In Shirley, J. H.; Fainbridge, R. W.

<i>Encyclopedia of Planetary Sciences</i>

(New York: Chapman and Hall).

<a href="..." title="..." class="vt-p">ISBN</a>&nbsp;

<a href="..." title="..." class="vt-p">978-1-4020-4520-2</a>

<span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved 2009-06-28</span>.</span>

</nowiki></code></pre>

:::Any thoughts on when such a change might be implemented, or a possible work-around? [[User:Rwessel|Rwessel]] ([[User talk:Rwessel|talk]]) 07:12, 5 January 2015 (UTC)

(incidentally, I don't think the first full stop should be inside the "reference-accessdate" span). I would make that:

:::Allow me to second Rwessel's last post. This is a serious readability issue for such a long list of references, which is difficult enough to read without the error messages. [[User:Texas Dervish|Texas Dervish]] ([[User talk:Texas Dervish|talk]]) 19:40, 6 January 2015 (UTC)

<pre><code><nowiki>

<span class="citation book h-cite">

<span class="p-author">Luhmann, J. G.</span>; <span class="p-author">Russell, C. T.</span> (<span class="dt-published">1997</span>).

<a class="external text vt-p u-url p-name" href="http:.../">"Venus: Magnetic Field and Magnetosphere"</a>.

In <span class="p-editor">Shirley, J. H.</span>; <span class="p-editor">Fainbridge, R. W.</span>

<i class="p-publication">Encyclopedia of Planetary Sciences</i>

(New York: <span class="p-publisher">Chapman and Hall</span>).

<a href="..." title="..." class="vt-p">ISBN</a>&nbsp;

<a href="..." title="..." class="vt-p u-uid">978-1-4020-4520-2</a>

<span class="reference-accessdate">. Retrieved <span class="dt-accessed">2009-06-28</span></span>.</span>

</nowiki></code></pre>

:#{{cite book |title=Title |date=c. 303 – c. 325}}

by adding classes "h-cite", "u-url", "u-uid", "p-author" (twice), "p-editor" (twice), "dt-published", "p-publication", "p-name", "p-publisher" and "dt-accessed". What do others think? <span class="vcard"><span class="fn">[[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]]</span> (<span class="nickname">Pigsonthewing</span>); [[User talk:Pigsonthewing|Talk to Andy]]; [[Special:Contributions/Pigsonthewing|Andy's edits]]</span> 13:34, 29 March 2013 (UTC)

:#{{cite book |title=Title |date=c. 303}} --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 16:09, 13 March 2020 (UTC)

== NameConvert suffixesdashes in dates ==

We currently convert hyphens and em dashes in page rages to the proper en dash. Do so for dates as well. --<span style="color:Turquoise">''''' &nbsp;[[User:Gadget850|Gadget850]]'''''^{[[User talk:Gadget850|&nbsp;''talk'']]}</span> 19:04, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

The COinS implementation guide specifies that, at least for the first author of a work, it should be possible to separate their name into first name(s), last name, and suffix. When the <nowiki>{{cite}}</nowiki> templates were created, they were regarded solely as presentational, and separate parameters for suffixes weren't thought to be worth implementing. Scanning the ends of first1, first2, editor1,...and so forth for "Sr", "Jr", "II", and "III" should probably pick up most of the citations where suffixes should be moved to their own parameters. [[User:Choess|Choess]] ([[User talk:Choess|talk]]) 15:26, 30 March 2013 (UTC)

:Some hyphens in dates, such as in the YYYY-MM-DD format, should stay as hyphens, so the programming will need to have a bit of subtlety. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 21:56, 12 January 2015 (UTC)

== suggestion list and enumerated parameters ==

The module doesn't know how to suggest enumerated parameters:

:<code><nowiki>{{cite book/new |title=Title |EditorSurname1=Last |EditorGiven1=FM}}</nowiki></code>

::{{cite book/new |title=Title |EditorSurname1=Last |EditorGiven1=FM}}

compare:

:<code><nowiki>{{cite book/new |title=Title |EditorSurname=Last |EditorGiven=FM}}</nowiki></code>

::{{cite book/new |title=Title |EditorSurname=Last |EditorGiven=FM}}

—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 15:12, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

::The more general case: The Suggestion list would be better if it accepted regular expressions or something similar. There are myriad misspelled forms of "access-date" that I catch and fix with a regex in [[User:Jonesey95/AutoEd/unnamed.js]]. It would be great if we could feed something like "ac+e+s-*d+a+t+e" (only one "s") or "ac+e+sss+-*d+at+e" (triple "s") into the Suggestions list and have it suggest "access-date". – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 20:53, 6 August 2015 (UTC)

== Citing Standards ==

There apparently is no {{tl|cite standard}} template yet, which could be used for citing technical standards, although these are often used as references for articles on technical subjects in Wikipedia or even have dedicated articles. Some standards, e.g. most of those issued by ISO, are not available for free, which is sometimes seen as hindering their use as a (reliable) source, but most are available to the general (paying) public, thus do not really violate the principles of verifiability.

Standards usually have one or more [[list of technical standard organizations|issuing bodies]] which are almost always best known by an acronym, e.g. ISO, IEC, IETF (RFC), IEEE, ITU, SMPTE, ETSI, CEN/CENELEC (EN), CIE, W3C, WHATWG, ECMA, EBU, ANSI, NTSC, NIST, FCC, AMSE, BS, CAN, DIN, JIS, GOST, ARIA, ARIB, CCIR, ASTM, IATA, ICAO.

Most standards are identified by an identification number, sometimes a part or sub-part, and a date (often just the year) of initial publishing or last revision, but they usually also have a title, subtitle, possibly part title, draft or release status, category, subject etc. Author and publisher are often the same, although a designated bureau, committee, taskforce or workgroup may have been chartered with its creation. Many are also related to other standards: they may revise, replace or update them, be published jointly in synchronization with them, translate or adapt them nationally etc.

In short: I'm not sure which (new) parameters would be needed, which should be discouraged, recommended or required and which should be mapped to existing ones by aliases, but I sure wish there was a helpful template. — [[User:Crissov|Christoph]] [[User talk:Crissov|Päper]] 12:47, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

:Previous discussions:

:*{{slink|Template_talk:Citation/Archive_8#Citing_norms_and_standards}}

:*{{slink|Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_56#Citing_norms_and_standards}}

:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 13:00, 16 November 2019 (UTC)

== Fix stacked parentheses problem ==

Documented at [[Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 24#Type and language]]. Also relevant for [[#Consistent date ___location]] which would add to it when an author/editor is unspecified. --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 02:13, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

* Author, Editor, Chapter, Work, Type, Language, Format, Date all specified: (ChapterFormat???)

*: Author (Date). "Chapter" (Format Type in Language). In Editor (ed.). ''Work''.

* Missing any one parenthetical above: Trivial case.

* Missing Editor: Trivial case.

* Missing Author:

*: Editor, ed. (Date). "Chapter" (Format Type in Language). ''Work''.

* Missing Chapter

*: Author (Date). In Editor (ed.). ''Work'' (Format Type in Language).

* Missing Work: Author (Date). Editor (ed.). "Chapter" (Format Type in Language).

Of note in this set is if Date is in the "big" parentheses, in MDY, it needs a comma following the Y e.g. (January 1, 2001, Format Type in Language).

Combinations: 2 things missing at 1 star and 3 things missing at 2 stars.

* Author Date: Editor, ed. "Chapter" (Format Type in Language). ''Work''.

** And Editor: "Chapter" (Format Type in Language). ''Work''.

** And Chapter: Editor (ed.). ''Work''. (Format Type in Language).

** And one of Format/Type/Language: Trivial.

** And Work: Editor (ed.). "Chapter" (Format Type in Language).

* Author Editor: "Chapter" (Date Format Type in Language). ''Work''.

** And Chapter: ''Work'' (Date Format Type in Language).

** And one of Format/Type/Language: Trivial.

** And Work: "Chapter" (Date Format Type in Language).

* Author Chapter: Editor, ed. (Date). ''Work'' (Format Type in Language).

** And one of Format/Type/Language: Trivial.

** And Work: Error.

* Author and one of Format or Type or Language: Trivial.

** And Work: Editor, ed. (Date). "Chapter" (Format Type in Language).

* Author Work: Editor, ed. (Date). "Chapter" (Format Type in Language).

* Editor Date: Author. "Chapter" (FTL). ''Work''.

** And Chapter: Author. ''Work'' (Format Type in Language).

** And one of Format or Type or Language: Trivial

** And Work: Author. "Chapter" (Format Type in Language).

* Editor Chapter: Trivial Missing Chapter.

** And one of Format or Type or Language: Trivial

** And Work: Error.

* Editor and one of Format or Type or Language: Trivial Missing Editor.

** And Work: Author (Date). "Chapter" (Format Type in Language).

* Editor Work: Trivial Missing Editor.

* Date Chapter: Trivial Missing Chapter.

** And one of Format or Type or Language: Trivial.

* Date and one of Format or Type or Language: Trivial Missing Date.

** And Work: Trivial.

* Date and Work: Trivial Missing Work.

* Format or Type or Language and one of others: Trivial.

** And all three: Author (Date). "Chapter". In Editor (ed.). ''Work''.

** And Work: Trivial.

* Format or Type or Language and Work: Trivial.

In general: FTL can reasonably be considered as one unit. It sometimes has Date added. It takes a while to get to the point where it doesn't display at all. Could probably be changed in the module today pretty easily (+- ChapterFormat versus Format). --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 03:34, 8 May 2020 (UTC)

: Related discussion: [[Help talk:Citation Style 1#Why language in between series title and volume number?]]

: --[[User:Matthiaspaul|Matthiaspaul]] ([[User talk:Matthiaspaul|talk]]) 08:45, 31 May 2020 (UTC)