Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Snap (web framework): Difference between revisions

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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''

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The result was '''keep'''. ([[Wikipedia:non-admin closure|non-admin closure]]) [[User:Mz7|Mz7]] ([[User talk:Mz7|talk]]) 22:44, 9 March 2014 (UTC)

===[[Snap (web framework)]]===

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:{{la|Snap (web framework)}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Snap (web framework)|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2014 March 3#{{anchorencode:Snap (web framework)}}|View log]]</noinclude>{{int:dot-separator}} <span class="plainlinks">[http://toolserver.org/~snottywong/cgi-bin/votecounter.cgi?page=Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Snap_(web_framework) Stats]</span>)

:({{Find sources|Snap (web framework)}})

No independent references to establish notability. Verging on promotional, with the statement that "Snap aims to be the de facto web toolkit for Haskell" and unsupported claims such as "A fast HTTP server library" (compared to what?) and "A sensible and clean monad for web programming". The article was undeleted after a PROD deletion as per [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_undeletion#Snap_.28web_framework.29]] [[User:AndrewWTaylor|AndrewWTaylor]] ([[User talk:AndrewWTaylor|talk]]) 16:32, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

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:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Internet|list of Internet-related deletion discussions]]. [[User:Gene93k|• Gene93k]] ([[User talk:Gene93k|talk]]) 16:34, 3 March 2014 (UTC)</small>

:<small class="delsort-notice">Note: This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Software|list of Software-related deletion discussions]]. [[User:Gene93k|• Gene93k]] ([[User talk:Gene93k|talk]]) 16:35, 3 March 2014 (UTC)</small>

*'''Andrew''' - According to Gregory Collins in 2011, <s>Snap</s> Haskell {{small|(my bad)}} was 40x-50x faster than Ruby on a per-cpu basis at the time.[http://www.computer.org/portal/web/computingnow/content?g=53319&type=article&urlTitle=gregory-collins-on-high-performance-web-apps-with-snap-and-haskell] That would make it hundreds of times faster on a multicore processor since Haskell supports multicore parallelism. Snap has been sped up since then too, along with its competitor Yesod. [http://www.yesodweb.com/blog/2011/03/preliminary-warp-cross-language-benchmarks Here] is a 2011-era benchmark comparing Snap, Warp (the http server part of Yesod), PHP, and others. Notice that PHP (which powers the Wikimedia servers) is way down near the bottom of that chart, to get an idea of the speeds being discussed. The AOSA book has a chapter about Warp[http://www.aosabook.org/en/posa/warp.html] saying Warp was on a par with nginx, and that was before the implementation of [http://haskell.cs.yale.edu/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/hask035-voellmy.pdf Mio], the parallel GHC I/O manager which made Warp and Snap even faster. I'm not sure Snap's speed ever reached parity with Yesod but it's in the same ballpark, and both of them are drastically (orders of magnitude) faster than the "mainstream" PHP, Rails, Django, etc. So it is perfectly reasonable in the context of web frameworks to say that Snap is fast. People tend to choose between Snap, Yesod, and Happstack (the three main Haskell web frameworks) based on API preference rather than raw speed, since all are bloody fast compared to most other stuff out there (except maybe Node, which gets its speed by being very primitive). [[Special:Contributions/70.36.142.114|70.36.142.114]] ([[User talk:70.36.142.114|talk]]) 21:24, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

* '''Keep''' It's notable in that it's the first result in google for "haskell web framework". An independent book has been written about it and is being sold: http://snapforbeginners.com/ <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/98.250.79.35|98.250.79.35]] ([[User talk:98.250.79.35|talk]]) 17:18, 3 March 2014 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

* '''Keep:''' [https://www.google.com/#q=snap+haskell Searching for "snap haskell"] returns about half a million hits, and there's the above mentioned book. All that makes it notable enough; however, some toning down of the article is required. &mdash;&nbsp;[[User:Dsimic|Dsimic]]&nbsp;([[User talk:Dsimic#nobold|talk]]&nbsp;|&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Dsimic|contribs]]) 21:15, 3 March 2014 (UTC)

* '''Keep:''' Snap is notable for being the first [http://hackage.haskell.org/package/snap-server-0.1.1] [http://hackage.haskell.org/package/warp-0.3.0] Haskell web server to employ the now popular enumerator/iteratee model for processing HTTP requests and generated responses. [[User:LukeHoersten|LukeHoersten]] ([[User talk:LukeHoersten|talk]]) 01:43, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

*'''Keep''', nice amount of source coverage. &mdash; '''[[User:Cirt|Cirt]]''' ([[User talk:Cirt|talk]]) 17:28, 4 March 2014 (UTC)

*'''Keep''' – Though the article could be better, the topic appears notable. This is one of the main web frameworks that have been coded in [[Haskell (programming language)|Haskell]]. We already have articles on [[Yesod (web framework)]] and [[Happstack]]. Yesod is probably in the lead since it is covered by [http://shop.oreilly.com/product/0636920023142.do an O'Reilly book], but the other two appear serious as well. [[User:EdJohnston|EdJohnston]] ([[User talk:EdJohnston|talk]]) 01:50, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

* '''Keep:''' The non-notability claim is clearly refuted by references to a published book, an IEEE journal article, and numerous web articles. In fact, it's hard to imagine how this page could have ever been considered for deletion. But I think it was just an honest mistake - apparently the quality of the article was previously very low. There is nothing like the threat of deletion to inspire editors to clean up a badly written article. [[User:StormWillLaugh|StormWillLaugh]] ([[User talk:StormWillLaugh|talk]]) 14:09, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

:Oh, the book was only mentioned here, it wasn't referenced in the article. OK, added reference. [[User:StormWillLaugh|StormWillLaugh]] ([[User talk:StormWillLaugh|talk]]) 16:29, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

* '''Comment''' Thanks to those who have contributed to this discussion. In view of the extra information that's been given here and added to the article, I'm happy to let the article go to what looks like an overwhelming '''keep'''. However, I do think it needs some improvement, as it still comes across as rather promotional in the "Overview" section; and there are a lot of inline external links that should be changed to references, per point 2 of [[Wikipedia:EXTLINK#Important_points_to_remember]]. [[User:AndrewWTaylor|AndrewWTaylor]] ([[User talk:AndrewWTaylor|talk]]) 16:43, 6 March 2014 (UTC)

:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's [[Help:Using talk pages|talk page]] or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>