Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Afnix (programming language): Difference between revisions
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.''
<!--Template:Afd top
Note: If you are seeing this page as a result of an attempt to re-nominate an article for deletion, you must manually edit the AfD nomination links in order to create a new discussion page using the name format of [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/PAGENAME (2nd nomination)]]. When you create the new discussion page, please provide a link to this old discussion in your nomination. -->
The result was '''delete'''. The arguments put forward by those favouring deletion (that the article lacks [[WP:GNG|sufficent coverage]] in [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] to indicate [[WP:notability|notability]]) have not been effectively refuted by those in favor of keeping it. If such sources can be found, please let me know, and I will consider restoring the article. -- '''''[[User:Lear's Fool|Lear's]] [[User Talk:Lear's Fool|Fool]]''''' 02:52, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
===[[Afnix (programming language)]]===
:{{la|Afnix (programming language)}} – (<includeonly>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Afnix (programming language)|View AfD]]</includeonly><noinclude>[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Log/2011 February
:({{Find sources|Afnix (programming language)}})
Obscure programming language. I can't find any sources other than the project's website itself. [[User:Christopher Monsanto|Christopher Monsanto]] ([[User talk:Christopher Monsanto|talk]]) 18:49, 5 February 2011 (UTC)
*<small class="delsort-notice">'''Note''': This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Computing|list of Computing-related deletion discussions]]. <!--Template:Deletion sorting--></small> <small>-- [[User:Gene93k|• Gene93k]] ([[User talk:Gene93k|talk]]) 20:25, 5 February 2011 (UTC)</small>
*'''Keep''' No arguments were given why the language is obscure. The article requires improvements.--[[User:Sergey shandar|Sergey Shandar]] ([[User talk:Sergey shandar|talk]]) 17:32, 9 February 2011 (UTC)
:*'''
::*'''Comment''' Then the tag should say "enhance". Not "delete". Just common sense.--[[User:Sergey shandar|Sergey Shandar]] ([[User talk:Sergey shandar|talk]]) 09:26, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
:::*'''Comment''' – You or anyone has the ability to do so. In addition the author has been notified and has the [[WP:BURDEN|burden]] of providing support for the article. If this does not happen in 7 days after the creation of the AfD the article will most likely be deleted. [[User:Ttonyb1|<span style="font-weight:bold; color:blue; text-shadow:grey 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em; letter-spacing: 2px; padding: 1px 3px;"> <i>ttonyb</i></span>]] ([[User talk:Ttonyb1#top|talk]]) 15:43, 10 February 2011 (UTC)
<hr style="width:55%;" />
:<span style="color:#FF4F00;">'''[[WP:RELIST|Relisted]] to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.'''</span><br /><small>Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, [[User:Ron Ritzman|Ron Ritzman]] ([[User talk:Ron Ritzman|talk]]) 01:24, 12 February 2011 (UTC)</small><!-- from Template:Relist -->
*<small class="delsort-notice">'''Note''': This debate has been included in the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Deletion sorting/Software|list of Software-related deletion discussions]]. <!--Template:Deletion sorting--></small> <small>-- [[User:Cybercobra|<b style="color:#3773A5;">Cyber</b><span style="color:#FFB521;">cobra</span>]] [[User talk:Cybercobra|(talk)]] 00:38, 13 February 2011 (UTC)</small>
'''Keep''' Being an "obscure programming language" is a "keep" reason in a paperless encyclopedia. There is a preliminary presumption of notability here when Google generates 50,000 hits. In glancing at those hits, I saw many web pages with "afnix" in the URL, each of these web pages documents that "afnix" has been noticed. [[User:Unscintillating|Unscintillating]] ([[User talk:Unscintillating|talk]]) 23:42, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
:'''Comment''' – Obscurity is not a reason to keep anything in an encyclopedia where notability is based on [[WP:V| verifiability]]. Far from 50K GHits is a total of 418 GHits, none of which appear contain any substance that would support Wikipedia defined notability. [[User:Ttonyb1|<span style="font-weight:bold; color:blue; text-shadow:grey 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em; letter-spacing: 2px; padding: 1px 3px;"> <i>ttonyb</i></span>]] ([[User talk:Ttonyb1#top|talk]]) 23:48, 14 February 2011 (UTC)
::Then you agree that the nominator's statement "obscure programming language" was not based on notability principles. I clicked to page 42 and verify that the 56,500 Google hits changes to 418 Google hits. How did you decide that none of the 418 hits were substantive? [[User:Unscintillating|Unscintillating]] ([[User talk:Unscintillating|talk]]) 00:18, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
:::'''Comment''' – As I stated above, the article subject lacks Ghits and GNEWs of substance and the article provides no independent reliable sources to support claims of notability. The number of Ghits is really not that hard to review if one gets past the "index of/XXX", "downloads", and other items such as "List of Programming Languages", etc. If I have missed something feel free to add it to the article and notify the AfD participants. Unfortunately, no one has added any [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] to the article in the time the AfD has been active. [[User:Ttonyb1|<span style="font-weight:bold; color:blue; text-shadow:grey 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em; letter-spacing: 2px; padding: 1px 3px;"> <i>ttonyb</i></span>]] ([[User talk:Ttonyb1#top|talk]]) 00:38, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
::::While in many cases it may be appropriate, it is not the purpose of AfD to add sources to an article. If that was true, editors could abuse the AfD process, in order to bludgeon other editors to add to [[WP:IDON'TLIKE]] articles, when they could have added sources themselves. Tolerance of such AfDs would be a burden on both editors and admins. If you will look at [[WP:Guide to deletion]] you will see:
::::*first do the necessary homework and look for sources yourself, and invite discussion on the talk page by using the <nowiki>{{notability}}</nowiki> template, if you are disputing the notability of an article's subject. The fact that you haven't heard of something, or don't personally consider it worthy, are not criteria for deletion. You must look for, and demonstrate that you couldn't find, any independent sources of sufficient depth.
::::Did this happen before this nomination? Have all of the major contributors been notified? Where we are now, we really don't know what would have happened had "communal consensus" been followed. [[User:Unscintillating|Unscintillating]] ([[User talk:Unscintillating|talk]]) 02:19, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::*'''Comment''' – Golly, thanks for the lesson in the use and purpose of AfDs. Feel free to forward this to the nominator. As I stated above, the article subject lacks Ghits and GNEWs of substance and the article provides no independent reliable sources to support claims of notability. All you have to do to help the article survive the AfD is add [[WP:RS|reliable sources]]. [[User:Ttonyb1|<span style="font-weight:bold; color:blue; text-shadow:grey 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em; letter-spacing: 2px; padding: 1px 3px;"> <i>ttonyb</i></span>]] ([[User talk:Ttonyb1#top|talk]]) 02:37, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::::How is saying "All you have to do" anything other than using AfD as a battering ram? [[User:Unscintillating|Unscintillating]] ([[User talk:Unscintillating|talk]]) 04:04, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
:::::::*'''Comment''' – Feel free to argue this with the nominator. The purpose of this discussion is the notability of the article. Once more I have not found any Ghits or GNEWs of substance to support any claims of notability. I look forward to your improvements to the article. My best to you. [[User:Ttonyb1|<span style="font-weight:bold; color:blue; text-shadow:grey 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em; letter-spacing: 2px; padding: 1px 3px;"> <i>ttonyb</i></span>]] ([[User talk:Ttonyb1#top|talk]]) 05:51, 15 February 2011 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' – As I am the original author, I have started to enhance the Afnix article, which surely needed improvement. Afnix is not an obscure language. It has been around for 10 years and has served for numerous experiments when it comes to combine advanced functional language with the object oriented paradigm. Afnix is also part of the FreeBSD port collection. It would be unfortunate to see the article deleted. <small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Amauryd|Amauryd]] ([[User talk:Amauryd|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Amauryd|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:*'''Comment''' – The article is not nominated for deletion based on obscurity, but rather because it lacks Ghits and GNEWs of substance and the article provides no independent reliable sources to support claims of [[WP:N|notability]]. All articles in Wikipedia must be [[WP:V| verifiable]] using [[WP:RS]]. [[User:Ttonyb1|<span style="font-weight:bold; color:blue; text-shadow:grey 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em; letter-spacing: 2px; padding: 1px 3px;"> <i>ttonyb</i></span>]] ([[User talk:Ttonyb1#top|talk]]) 01:37, 19 February 2011 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per the [http://news.google.com/archivesearch?&as_src=-newswire+-wire+-presswire+-PR+-release+-wikipedia&q=%22Afnix+%28programming+language%29%22 lack] of significant coverage in [[WP:RS|reliable sources]]. The sole result is a copy of the Wikipedia article. A [http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=%22Afnix%22+programming&btnG=Search&as_sdt=0%2C5&as_ylo=&as_vis=0 Google Scholar search] and a [http://www.google.com/search?tbs=bks:1&q=%22Afnix+(programming+language)%22#sclient=psy&hl=en&tbs=bks:1&q=%22Afnix%22+programming Google Books search] return no significant coverage. I note that the article is unsourced: The core policy [[Wikipedia:Verifiability]] mandates deletion. [[User:Cunard|Cunard]] ([[User talk:Cunard|talk]]) 22:52, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' [[WP:V]], [[WP:RS]], and [[WP:BURDEN]] are '''content''' policies. If someone challenges that content in the article is sourced, they might put <nowiki>{{cn}}</nowiki> templates on such content, and following policy there would be a time to delete that content. WP:V adds, "But in practice not everything need actually be attributed." This AfD discussion is not about the content of this article, but whether the topic is '''notable''', [[WP:N]]. [[User:Unscintillating|Unscintillating]] ([[User talk:Unscintillating|talk]]) 23:47, 20 February 2011 (UTC)
:*'''Comment''' – Let's try this once more, the article is nominated for deletion because it lacks independent, [[WP:V|verifiable]], [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] to support claims of [[WP:N|notability]]. There is only one way to provide notability for this article – provide independent, [[WP:V|verifiable]], [[WP:RS|reliable sources]]. There is nothing that supports Wikipedia defined [[WP:N|notability]] for this article. No one expects everything to be supported, but there are '''no''' (zero) independent, [[WP:V|verifiable]], [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] to support '''any''' claims of [[WP:N|notability]] for this article. If there are independent, [[WP:V|verifiable]], [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] they need to be added to the article in order for it to survive the AfD. [[User:Ttonyb1|<span style="font-weight:bold; color:blue; text-shadow:grey 0.4em 0.4em 0.5em; letter-spacing: 2px; padding: 1px 3px;"> <i>ttonyb</i></span>]] ([[User talk:Ttonyb1#top|talk]]) 01:55, 21 February 2011 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>
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