Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Programmer's day: Difference between revisions
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:''The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page. ''
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The result was '''delete'''. [[User:Can't sleep, clown will eat me|Can't sleep, clown will eat me]] 01:11, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
===[[Programmer's day]]===
:''[[Programmer's Day]] was nominated for deletion on [[2004-09-12]]. The result of the discussion was "delete". For the prior discussion, see [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Programmer's Day]].''
Imaginary/joke holiday. Ridiculously few Google hits given its subject area, and no sources cited. [[User:Dtcdthingy|Dtcdthingy]] 08:00, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
*Why not make it an actual Holiday, and give credit to Wikipedia for initiating this Holiday. BTW, I am really not joking
**Because Wikipedia is not the place to promote new ideas. We're an encyclopedia and we only write on things that already exist. - [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm]]|[[User talk:MacGyverMagic|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 09:19, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per nominator. - [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm]]|[[User talk:MacGyverMagic|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 09:20, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
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*Friends of mine do observe this 'holiday' in one way or the other, me too (yes, I am a coder). This is no new idea, it's been around for a while. Or do you think "what I can't find with google does not exist"? BTW: I know it longer than the wikipedia - only i don't know who told me about in the first place. [[User:bullhaddha|Tim]]
**Please [[Wikipedia:cite sources|cite sources]] to prove your assertion that this idea is not new. The onus is on you to demonstrate that this article is verifiable, not on other editors to defend their good faith attempts to find sources for an article that doesn't have any. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] 11:51, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' - Unfortunately
**Programmer's are by definition the sort of people who spend a lot of time on computers. It makes no sense for a wide-spread programmer specific holiday to lack reliable Google presence. - [[User:MacGyverMagic|Mgm]]|[[User talk:MacGyverMagic|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] 12:31, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
***However, no [[WP:V|verifiable]] evidence has been produced that this is widespread. [[User:Fan-1967|Fan-1967]] 14:55, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' Real programmers don't take holidays. [[User:Sjc|Sjc]] 12:15, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
*Not sure what kind of references would be satisfying but the holiday was [http://www.pcworld.pl/news/99332.html mentioned] in [http://www.pcworld.pl/ PC World Komputer] - a Polish edition of a [[PC World (magazine)|PC World]] magazine (read by about half a million people) which sort of proves that the concept was not made up recently by a random guy who only wanted to edit Wikipedia.<small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:217.96.228.130|217.96.228.130]] ([[User talk:217.96.228.130|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/217.96.228.130|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
**Yeah, but it's not about whether the ''idea'' exists. Neither that link nor the one that's been added acknowledge it as anything more than a semi-joke proposed holiday. Semi-joke proposed holidays that barely exist don't belong in Wikipedia. --[[User:Dtcdthingy|Dtcdthingy]] 14:37, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
***I don't see why. [[System Administrator Appreciation Day|SAAD]] is a semi-joke as are most of the things related to geek culture. I agree that calling it ''holiday'' is a bit too much, but a little of reediting the article should solve the problem. -- mina86, [[User:217.96.228.130|217.96.228.130]] 19:14, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
****[[Wikipedia:Citing sources|Citing sources]] is what would actually solve the problem. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] 01:32, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
*****I've given an URL to a Polish article which clearly states that 13/09/2006 is the Programmers' Day. I assume that company such as IDG is a reliable source. At this point I don't really know what else you expect. It's obvious Programmers' Day is not an official holiday, however, the fact that it was mentioned on a website of a respectable magazine and the fact article on Polish Wikipedia was created on 25/07/2003 proves that it's not new idea shared among small group of people and as such should be mentioned on Wikipedia. The thing that astonishes me the most is that you want to delete Programmers' Day but want to keep SAAD whereas both ''holidays'' are a semi-joke and unofficial. -- mina86, [[User:217.96.228.130|217.96.228.130]] 14:47, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
******The only person to actually mention SAAD at all is you. This discussion is about [[Programmer's day]], not about some other article. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] 00:22, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
*****I've just noticed that the article was deleted 2 years ago and reading the previous discussion shows another valid points: Why do you want do delete Programmers' Day but keep [[Pi Day]], [[Mole Day]], [[Square root day]], [[Towel Day]], and mentioned previously [[System Administrator Appreciation Day|SAAD]]. There's also another [http://www.epasaule.lv/article/view/676/1/188/ reference] which shows that the idea of that holiday was there in 2001 ("''Last year Balt addressed with similar idea''"). -- mina86, [[User:217.96.228.130|217.96.228.130]] 15:28, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
******Please don't create straw men, or use the fallacious "If article X then article Y." argument. The article that you cite reports that 1 person is campaining to have this day made an official holiday. Where are all of the ''other'' people documenting this purported holiday? [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] 00:22, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
*******All I'm saying is that I don't understand what's the big difference between Programmers' Day and the other days which make the former nominated for deletion. The article I cite also reports that "''Many programmers considered this day ''[256th day of the year]'' the informal professional holiday.''" And finally, the ''other'' people documenting this holiday are the editors of PC World. -- mina86, [[User:217.96.228.130|217.96.228.130]] 13:57, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
*'''DON't Delete''' Knowing of this day made me really proud. Perhaps i would pick another day, so we could also celebrate on someone. Please keep these article so we can spread it. Thanks.<small>— [[User:Camus SoNiCo|Camus SoNiCo]] ([[User talk:Camus SoNiCo|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Camus SoNiCo|contribs]]) has made [[Wikipedia:Single-purpose account|few or no other edits]] outside this topic. </small>
*'''Delete''' Non-notable, unverifiable. Looks a lot more like something [[WP:NFT|made up in school]] than anything ever taken seriously by professional programmers. [[User:Fan-1967|Fan-1967]] 14:55, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
* '''KEEP''' Moscow Times has a 2002 article, which gives the subject some credibility. Larisa Naumenko. [http://www.themoscowtimes.com/stories/2002/10/23/052.html "Programmers Want Their Own Holiday"], The Moscow Times, 2002-10-23, pp. 9. -- I fail to see the value in speedy deletion of this, as the only purpose that serves is taking away people's opportunities to actually do the research and find references. It should also be noted that content veryfing the existence of the holiday has been deleted from the article, see the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Programmer%27s_day&oldid=75542921 17:48, 13 September 2006] edit<small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:213.236.208.22|213.236.208.22]] ([[User talk:213.236.208.22|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/213.236.208.22|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
**That edit removed a link to some nobody's blog. In no way is a blog considered a [[WP:RS|source]] for [[WP:V|verifying]] anything. [[User:Fan-1967|Fan-1967]] 16:55, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
*'''DON't Delete''' Redefine this article as a reference to a proposal instead of a real holiday so this way it can be spread. The idea does exist so it must be documented as what it is, an idea.Thanks<small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:157.92.4.151|157.92.4.151]] ([[User talk:157.92.4.151|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/157.92.4.151|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
* Don't Delete! The idea of this article is good. There must be a reference for programmers holiday on WiKi!<small><span class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:213.170.72.226|213.170.72.226]] ([[User talk:213.170.72.226|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/213.170.72.226|contribs]]) </span></small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
** Please [[Wikipedia:cite sources|show that there are references ''off'' Wikipedia]]. This is Wikipedia, by the way. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] 01:32, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per all the "DON't Delete" votes which are making a good case to delete it on their own. [[User:Danny Lilithborne|Danny Lilithborne]] 18:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
* '''SAVE''' The concept may not be a religious holiday, but there are outside references: [http://explanation-guide.info/meaning/Programmer's-day.html "Explanation-guide.info"] [http://www.encyclopedian.com/pr/Programmer's-day.html "encyclopedian.com] and even greeting cards: [http://cards.123greetings.com/cgi-bin/newcards/showthumbs.pl?q1=esep_programmerday&log=netglimse&sname=&semail=&rname=&remail=& "123greetings.com"] - NLloyd (edu SMUMN)
**The first two of those web pages are Wikipedia mirrors, and not "outside references" at all. And the final one contains no actual information. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] 01:32, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''', nn to the point of non-existence. [[User:Vizjim|Vizjim]] 21:26, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Try [[Uncyclopedia]]. [[User:Pavel Vozenilek|Pavel Vozenilek]] 23:03, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep'''. I never knew about it. Sounds interesting. May be we can spread the word, and get a chance to relieve our stress at least once a year.
**If you wish to proselytize, your own web site is the place. [[Wikipedia:Wikipedia is not a soapbox|Wikipedia is not a soapbox]]. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] 13:49, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. However I'd love to be able get an extra day off work, and cite Wiki as the reason [[User:Mlk|mlk]] [[User_talk:mlk|<sup style="color: orange;">&#9993;</sup>]][[Special:Contributions/mlk|<sup style="color: green;">&#9836;</sup>]] 08:34, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
*'''DON'T Delete'''. Please dont delete this. I'm very proud of that holiday and I find that only a small part of the programmers know about it. We sould preserver it and keep it spreading.
*'''Keep'''. Firstly, it hasn't got to be "a day off", it's more like April Fool's Day (that also to [[User:Sjc|Sjc]]). MacGyver: Common sense doesn't help in any case (ref to your google evidence). BTW when I googled for "Programmer's Day" I found alot of hits that were referring to the article's topic - of course in between babble about "a programmer's day looks like..". On the other hand, deleting does not stop me from 'celebrating' that day. And the lack of 'written' documents about it that don't just cite wikipedia (or rather the tiny fractions of google hits that don't!), doesn't make it easy to come up with evidence. [[User:bullhaddha|tim]]
**This points you to the route to having an encyclopaedia article: ''Have this day properly documented outside of Wikipedia.'' Have the oral history written down, and published in a journal article or a book. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] 13:49, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
* '''Delete'''. This day is actively celebrated and honoured by more people than 70% of the holidays mentioned in Wikipedia. If we can't see the reality, then we don't deserve to reflect it. -- [[User:85.187.156.88|85.187.156.88]] 10:00, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
** Asserting the number of people that celebrate this day, without [[Wikipedia:citing sources|citing sources]] against which that assertion can be checked, is not an argument. [[User:Uncle G|Uncle G]] 13:49, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' per [[User:Danny Lilithborne|Danny Lilithborne]]'s observation above that the keep votes are the strongest argument for deletion. [[User:Michael Kinyon|Michael Kinyon]] 11:56, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete'''. Made-up. [[User:Fredrik|Fredrik Johansson]] 13:38, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' non-notable to non-existent. [[User:Ergative rlt|Ergative rlt]] 14:54, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
*'''Delete''' nonsense. [[User:Gazpacho|Gazpacho]] 19:31, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
*'''Keep''' per significant PC World mention; PC World is definitely a reliable source, making this notable. Saying that something should be deleted just because new users want it kept is a silly reason to delete something, and I presume that the closing admin will disregard those opinions. Also, the nominator said that there were "ridiculously few" google hits, without giving a link. Upon further investigation, there are actually [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&safe=off&q=%22Programmer%27s+Day%22+-Wikipedia+&btnG=Search 15,000]. Not quite ridiculously few. --[[User talk:Rory096|Rory096]] 04:16, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
**Just a few days ago, there were barely any hits at all. It's gotten many mentions in the last few days only because a few popular blogs have linked to the Wikipedia article. I suppose we could rewrite the article to state the "Programmer's Day is a fictitious holiday invented in a Wikipedia article that was mentioned in many blogs in 2006", but covering such temporary internet fads doesn't make sense. Let's recreate the page if people still "celebrate" the holiday three years from now. [[User:Fredrik|Fredrik Johansson]] 12:58, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
*** This 'holiday' is definitely older than from this year. I remember greeting cards for this occasion available on yahoo some 5 years ago. Yes, that's not a reliable source, and I have better things to do than looking for one. At least your 'made-up' above was too quick a shot - at least it wasn't made up on wikipedia. I already gave my opinion/vote as "tim", so... [[User:Bullhaddha|Bullhaddha]] 20:30, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
***To the contrary, there were absolutely no mentions to Wikipedia in any of those pages. Note the "-wikipedia" in the search term. --[[User talk:Rory096|Rory096]] 16:11, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
* What about days like that: the [[Talk_Like_a_Pirate_Day]]. As I understand, we only need somebody claiming having invented Programmer's Day, and it'll be valid. I already said I heard about it from somebody else, so.. who wants? [[User:Bullhaddha|Bullhaddha]] 20:20, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review|deletion review]]). No further edits should be made to this page.'' <!--Template:Afd bottom--></div>
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