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== 'Dnipro' usage examples ==
I'd like to start the list of 'Dnipro' name usage examples and invite other users to add to the list. Tried to gather sources not from Ukraine, as someone wished (though plenty of web-cites in .ua domen [eg. IT companies with international connections] have influence on other www segments). I know, you can add more reliable sources. -- [[User:Ата|<span style="color:
Eurovision topic:
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* https://lookatthesescenes.com/2013/02/18/uk-raine-ing-flares-in-dnipro/
* http://www.daxx.com/view/daxx-software-development-teams-dnipropetrovsk
-- [[User:Ата|<span style="color:
:I looked at one of those websites - it got its content by copying from other websites, and then putting the words "read the full article on...".--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 20:59, 15 July 2016 (UTC)
::This is by no means a compendium of current English usage. As Toddy points out, in many (most) cases you have listed, this is just cut and paste usage from a single source. You have to do more than just do a Google search and listing links. You have to actually read and evaluate each source. By requiring unique sources, your list of Eurovision articles is reduced to one as well as your list of economic articles. Indeed, in both of these cases even, the underlying source for the usage isn't actually an English source, but a Ukrainian one that the English source simply copies. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 07:47, 16 July 2016 (UTC)
:::May I suggest that if people are just copying text without changing the city name then they are ok with it? --[[User:Ата|<span style="color:
Some more:
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*'''Support''' per nom. [[User:Unreal7|Unreal7]] ([[User talk:Unreal7|talk]]) 15:03, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' per [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. There is no evidence that "Dnipro" has supplanted "Dnipropetrovsk" (or even "Dnepropetrovsk") as the common name in English for this city. Yes, the Ukrainian name is now Дніпро, but that doesn't matter in the English Wikipedia. Only the most common usage '''''in English''''' counts in the English Wikipedia. We are not bound by acts of the Rada here. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 15:07, 18 July 2016 (UTC)
*:Could you please tell how many citations of RS (not the ones I listed above) would be enough? --[[User:Ата|<span style="color:
*How can you apply the rule of Common name to the recently renamed cities? This is senseless. So renaming is a fact now and I don't see any clear reason why to leave the old name.--[[User:Orange-kun|Orange-kun]] ([[User talk:Orange-kun|talk]]) 11:18, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
::Because this is not about what the cities are called within Ukraine, in Ukrainian. It's about what is most commonly used in the English language. You have to demonstrate that a majority of the [[WP:RS|reliable sources]] in English are now using "Dnipro" instead of "Dnipropetrovsk". A handful of mirrors of a single news report does not demonstrate "common English usage". You are itching to change things immediately. Wikipedia doesn't work that way. Read the history of discussion at [[Kiev]] and [[Odessa]] for an example of how common English usage works. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 15:06, 19 July 2016 (UTC)
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I tried a few minutes ago to add this footnote {{#tag:ref|According to [[Wikipedia guidelines]] Wikipedia [[Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_(geographic_names)#Use_modern_names|advices to use widely accepted English names, in a modern context]].|group=nb}} ([https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:MobileDiff/732272651 It was deleted before I got the chance to make it a footnote....]) I was trying to add this footnote because for readers who are not familiar with Wikipedia guidelines it most be confusing why not the official name of the city is used. — '''[[User:Yulia Romero|<span style="font-family:Script MT;color:orange">Yulia Romero</span>]]''' • [[User_talk:Yulia Romero|<span style="font-family:Script MT;color:blue">Talk to me!</span>]] 20:31, 30 July 2016 (UTC)
:{{ping|Yulia Romero}} We should not self-refer to Wikipedia in the article itself (see: [[MOS:SELFREF]]). '''[[User:Vanjagenije|<
{{reflist talk|group=nb}}
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{{sourcecheck|checked=failed}}
Cheers.—[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier;">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS;">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green;">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 19:34, 28 February 2016 (UTC)
*Failed. '''[[User:Vanjagenije|<
== Doesn't made sense ==
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Hi
It doesn't made sense that we write in ukrainian language in an english encyclopedia. We could only write with cyrillic alphabet after a parenthesis. --[[User:Panam2014|Panam2014]] ([[User talk:Panam2014|talk]]) 15:14, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
:{{ping|Panam2014}} What exactly is written in Ukrainian language? '''[[User:Vanjagenije|<
::[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dnipropetrovsk&diff=734300379&oldid=734293737 I talk about that] before your edit. --[[User:Panam2014|Panam2014]] ([[User talk:Panam2014|talk]]) 16:23, 13 August 2016 (UTC)
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Now it's called Dnipro (ukr) or Dnepr (rus). Please rename! <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/95.91.235.68|95.91.235.68]] ([[User talk:95.91.235.68#top|talk]]) 06:21, 3 December 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== Requested move 5 December 2016 ==
{{atop|Two socks indeffed, nothing more is expected to come out of this thread--[[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 18:08, 21 February 2017 (UTC) }}
* [[:Dnipropetrovsk]] → {{no redirect|Dnipro (Town)}}
I open this discussion, becous in the name 'Dnipro (Town)' is better then 'Dnipropetrovsk', i think... [[User:0x0F|0x0F]] ([[User talk:0x0F|talk]]) 10:10, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
:This has already been discussed several times this year and the consensus is to wait a few months to see if the new name catches on in English. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 10:59, 5 December 2016 (UTC)
:: [https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnipro French], [https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnipro German], [https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dniepr_(miasto) Polish], [https://uk.wikipedia.org/wiki/Дніпро_(місто) Ukrainian], [https://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Днепр_(город) Russian] and [https://tr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dnipro Turkish] versions of Wikipedia have already changed it. The reason why this version hasn't changed yet is artificial and politically motivated kafkaesque obstruction from the pro-Russian lobby. [[User:Aim4accuracy|Aim4accuracy]] ([[User talk:Aim4accuracy|talk]]) 12:30, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
:::It does not matter what Dnepropetrovsk is called in foreign languages, it only matters what it is called in the English language. As for the notion of a pro-Russian lobby influencing decisions, well if they did then English-language Wikipedia would have followed the lead of Russian-language Wikipedia; it has done the opposite and stuck with the most commonly used word for the city's name in the English language (albeit with the "i" spelling, instead of the "e" spelling).--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 14:35, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
:::: And in English language the city of Dnipro is called Dnipro. Like Zaporizhia or Kharkiv. Also, I like how you said "they", speaking about the pro-Russian lobby =) Very subtle. "English-language Wikipedia would have followed the lead of Russian-language Wikipedia". -> Not necessarily. Difference between internal and external propaganda in Russia can be striking. [[User:Aim4accuracy|Aim4accuracy]] ([[User talk:Aim4accuracy|talk]]) 19:46, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::You don't know what you're talking about. In English transliteration, the new name of the city is "Dnipro" of course. But that's immaterial. What is important is the name that English language sources and media '''''use'''''. The most commonly used name is still "Dnipropetrovsk" from the sources that we have. One or two sources changing usage is not a valid argument for changing Wikipedia per [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. There are still many English language sources that use "Dnipropetrovsk" and "Dnepropetrovsk". The situation may change. It may change soon. It may change in the distant future. ("Kiev" has never changed. Indeed, many sources that started using "Kyiv" for a time have actually switched back to common English "Kiev".) But until it changes, we follow Wikipedia policies and procedures and retain "Dnipropetrovsk" as the name of the article. The decision of the Rada makes no difference. The decision of the Dnipro city council makes no difference. The decision of the US and UK governments make no difference. The '''''only''''' thing that matters is common English usage. For example, [http://radio.garden/live/dnepropetrovsk/rmix/ here] is a new web site that uses "Dnepropetrovsk". --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 20:06, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::"Indeed, many sources that started using "Kyiv" for a time have actually switched back to common English "Kiev"." - Any proofs? [[User:Dotoner|Dotoner]] ([[User talk:Dotoner|talk]]) 20:29, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::::[https://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesearch/?action=click&contentCollection®ion=TopBar&WT.nav=searchWidget&module=SearchSubmit&pgtype=Homepage#/kyiv/ Here] is an example of the New York Times using "Kyiv" in 2013. But in 2016, they are using "Kiev" (except in proper names like "Kyiv Post" and "Dynamo Kyiv") as [https://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesearch/?action=click&contentCollection®ion=TopBar&WT.nav=searchWidget&module=SearchSubmit&pgtype=Homepage#/kiev/since1851/allresults/1/allauthors/newest/ here]. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 03:15, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::::I don't think there was a shift to "Kyiv" in 2013 at the NYT as there are articles with "Kyiv" dated even 2004. Rather, the journalists were free to use the variant they want, but from 2014 editors started controlling this issue. But ok, let's count it as 0.5. What are the rest of those "many sources"? [[User:Dotoner|Dotoner]] ([[User talk:Dotoner|talk]]) 08:11, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::Whatever. This isn't the Kiev renaming page in any case. My point is the same. The English name of Kiev is "Kiev" and "Kyiv" is just a Ukrainian transliteration. A large number of style guides and geographic references recognize this. But this is the page for Dnipro(petrovsk). --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 17:51, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
:::::: 1. Then why Zaporizhia and Kharkiv? Old, russified names - Zaporozhye and Kharkov - are more common in Google news, for example. Yet, English Wikipedia uses correct names instead. 2. English language sources like encyclopedias, official sites, geo servers and other official and serious sources, they use correct names. The only inert thing here is media that uses outdated names(probably because of Wikipedia itself in part), and not even always. Nowhere in the rules it is said that media must be more important than all other sources combined. Nowhere. It is just one of them. Also Dnipro is an important industrial city, so people would mostly read about it through serious sources for serious business. Your "new site" "evidence" is not evidence, and not even illustration. [[User:Aim4accuracy|Aim4accuracy]] ([[User talk:Aim4accuracy|talk]]) 21:50, 20 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::::Read [[WP:OTHERSTUFF]]. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 03:20, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
::::::::: How about you read it yourself? [[WP:OTHERSTUFF]] states: "While these comparisons are not a conclusive test, they may form part of a cogent argument; an entire comment should not be dismissed because it includes a comparative statement like this." [[User:Aim4accuracy|Aim4accuracy]] ([[User talk:Aim4accuracy|talk]]) 15:04, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
: New name is already accepted in Google Earth and Google map. Must be changed here. --[[User:Ykvach|Yuriy Kvach]] ([[User talk:Ykvach|talk]]) 14:13, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
: In addition, the name is already changed in almost all other Wikis, including German, French, Russian and Italian. There is no indication it's going to be changed back, so I think we need to change it here. [[User:Arthistorian1977|Arthistorian1977]] ([[User talk:Arthistorian1977|talk]]) 14:40, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
::Google Earth and Google Maps are '''''not''''' [[WP:COMMONNAME|common English usage]]. Again, we've already discussed this within the last couple of months and the consensus was to wait a few months to see if English usage actually changes. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 15:47, 11 December 2016 (UTC)
:::'''Political position about official city name?'''
:::Just funny (or pity) to watch as the refusal to recognize the official renaming of the city does not allow to part with the old name and rename a significant article about the fourth most populous city in Ukraine.
:::Renaming officially passed a long time ago, it used all the international sites like Google's services and other language editions of Wikipedia, but why don't here? Awaiting for 40 years?
:::It is a pity, because even find a city in Wikipedia under the new name through the search is hard. Many people who are not versed in the subject, will not understand how the city is called in reality. And many people use the Wikipedia for fast check spelling or their knowledge.
:::This page is misleading and does not reflect reality - the official renaming by national Parliament. Right now nothing does not change, and if will do - Wikipedia should follow for changes reality, and do not freeze their vision. Wikipedia is undermining its authority by the fact that make political position in this case.
:::-- [[User:Victor Babenko|Victor Babenko]] ([[User talk:Victor Babenko|talk]]) 07:36, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
::::That the commonly used name for a place in one language is different from the name in another language is not particularly unusual - try visiting Belgium or Italy. This is English-language Wikipedia, so we use the generally accepted English-language name Dnepropetrovsk or Dnipropetrovsk.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 11:03, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::But Dnepropetrovsk or Dnipropetrovsk? Why two, not one? If there are two names, may there be also three?.. I understand, the one was earlier, the other occurred later (since Ukraine's independence). So, is there a precedent of the city name evolving!? Is it not time for evolving into Dnipro, now?--[[User:Slovolyub|Slovolyub]] ([[User talk:Slovolyub|talk]]) 12:04, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
::::::That is not generally accepted English-language name. Unfortunately, it is your personal subjective vision.
::::::Compare with '''[[Zaporizhia]] vs Zaporozye''' (even without renaming), '''[[Bakhmut]] vs Artemovsk''', '''[[Horishni Plavni]] vs Komsomolsk''', '''[[Kharkiv]] vs Kharkov''' (same as Zaporizhia), '''[[Nikolske]] vs Volodarske''', '''[[Kamianske]] vs Dniprodzerzhynsk''', '''[[Pokrov, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast]] vs Ordzhonikidze''', '''[[Toretsk]] vs Dzerzhynsk''', '''[[Oleshky]] vs Tsuryupynsk''', '''[[Chornomorsk]] vs Illichivsk''' and even '''[[Kropyvnytskyi]] vs Kirovohrad'''! And many other, a lot of examples!
::::::'''Dnipro is an exception throughout all renamed list of names.''' Why so? This city is not the touristic or international commerce center as '''Kyiv ([[Kiev]])''' or '''Odesa ([[Odessa]])'''. Even '''[[Kharkiv]]''' was renamed to ukrainian transliteration by Wikipedia community.
::::::The explanation for this is only one - political position. '''There is no reason for this city to be special in the renamed list.'''
::::::The English-language Wikipedia should give full information to readers. There is not "generally accepted English-language name" for this city in the English-speaking world because it is not very popular in the world. "Generally accepted English-language name" is that people will see '''on the map''', in '''official press-announces''' (example of Eurovision) and '''here - in Wikipedia!''' And you know this ;) That's why sabotaging renaming.
::::::So now the article is misleading. I think, calling article '''[[Dnipro (former Dnipropetrovsk)]]''' might be a compromise if you think that the former name is so firmly entrenched in world culture and inextricably linked with it.
::::::But my examples with renamed list of names is clearly shows that "Dnipro En-Wikipedia question" with a high probability is only a political position of individual editors.
::::::---[[User:Victor Babenko|Victor Babenko]] ([[User talk:Victor Babenko|talk]]) 12:42, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::Victor, all you reveal is that you are unfamiliar with Dnepropetrovsk.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 15:52, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::Show to English Wikipedia what is this town called in English sources. How can we know that it is called Dnipro? Dnipro is simple transliteration, it means practically nothing (it means something for places not present in English sources at all). Google maps uses Dnipropetrovsk [https://www.google.co.uk:443/maps/@47.1934455,38.221436,8z see]. No politics at all, new name must be promoted elsewhere first. [[User:Chrzwzcz|Chrzwzcz]] ([[User talk:Chrzwzcz|talk]]) 17:16, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
::::::::Actually Google map uses Dnipro. [[User:Arthistorian1977|Arthistorian1977]] ([[User talk:Arthistorian1977|talk]]) 17:19, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
::::::::: Which one? Ukrainian? [[User:Chrzwzcz|Chrzwzcz]] ([[User talk:Chrzwzcz|talk]]) 17:26, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::: The one you referenced to.--[[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 17:28, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
::::::::::: Hmm, it may be browser or language settings thing. And what do you get if you click to "Dnipro" or write "Dnipro" into "search google maps"? For me it is changes to "Dnipropetrovsk". [[User:Chrzwzcz|Chrzwzcz]] ([[User talk:Chrzwzcz|talk]]) 17:36, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::: I get "Dnipro, Dnipropetrovsk Oblast, Ukraine". I am based in the Netherlands.--[[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 17:46, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::: For me "Dnjepropetrovsk" if I use NL Google in NL language. I specifically used google.co.uk, search language English and it showed me Dnipropetrovsk. Google maps won't be decisive either way.... [[User:Chrzwzcz|Chrzwzcz]] ([[User talk:Chrzwzcz|talk]]) 17:50, 10 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::: Let's see: www.google.co.uk - search request ''"dnepropetrovsk city": About 2,910,000 results'', search request ''"dnipropetrovsk city": About 5,300,000 results'', '''''search request "dnipro city": About 6,400,000 results'''''. Search request "dnepr city" or "dniepr city" refers to the river and to all cities on the river, so doesn't mean something.
:::::::: But it's true, even after request "dnipro city" Google will show map with "Dnipro" label on it and big title under it: "Dnipropetrovsk, Ukraine".
:::::::: If expand it by clicking, you'll see: ''Dnipropetrovsk or Dnepropetrovsk, is Ukraine's fourth largest city, with about one million inhabitants. It is 391 kilometres southeast of the capital Kiev on the Dnieper River, in the south-central part of Ukraine. '''Wikipedia'''''
:::::::: Google take this label from English Wikipedia! So, Wikipedia cannot be an information source for itself.
:::::::: In the results (https://www.google.co.uk/#q=dnipro+city) there are tourist sites, weather sites, and news about the renaming and about the Eurovision Song Contest. Most of them came from Ukrainian sources, yes. But exactly the same we'll see with the "Dnipropetrovsk city" request.
:::::::: In fact, this city is not on the agenda of the English-speaking media, as well as any city from the list I brought in the example above.
:::::::: Will the community of Wikipedia to wait until there will be something resonant for English-language media so they will come into it and write materials? Or apply to this city the same approach, as well as to all other cities from the list above?
:::::::: Moreover, the search results show its new name "Dinpro" (not counting results from Wikipedia) even for "Dnepropetrovsk city" request: https://www.google.co.uk/#q=Dnipropetrovsk+city
:::::::: ——[[User:Victor Babenko|Victor Babenko]] ([[User talk:Victor Babenko|talk]]) 07:39, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
::::::::: Well, the rationale behind not to change the name about half a year ago was was to see if the new name is being used widely. Now, we do need to take into account that it's not one of the most mentioned Ukrainian cities in the English language press. The main support for a change was using the name "Dnipro" at all [[Eurovision]] related articles: [http://www.eurovision.tv/tag/expand/Dnipro 1], [http://www.eurovision.tv/page/news?id=what_kyiv_dnipro_and_odessa_have_to_offer_for_eurovision_2017 2], [http://eurovisionworld.com/?esc=eurovision-2017-in-kyiv-dnipro-or-odessa 3], [http://esctoday.com/136676/eurovision-2017-dnipro-officially-applies-host-contest 4], [https://www.eurovisionary.com/eurovision-2017-kyiv-odessa-dnipro/ 5], [http://www.escapenews.org/tag/eurovision-dnipro-2017/ 6], [https://oikotimes.com/2016/09/01/eurovision-2017-season-officially-begins-today-lets-have-a-round-up-of-the-latest-news-across-europe/ 7]. It's probably the only event we are going to relate to the city in years to come and all related articles mentions Dnipro, not Dnipropetrovsk. In addition, the are newer articles in news outlets, referring to the city as Dnipro: [http://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-dnipro-police-officers-killed-puhachov/28012949.html 1], [https://www.nrk.no/urix/xl/landskapsgartneren-som-ble-frontsoldat-1.13307463 2], [https://www.kyivpost.com/ukraine-politics/crimea-suffering-lack-water-mainland.html 3], [http://uatoday.tv/crime/dnipro-city-is-paying-its-last-respects-to-killed-police-officers-754048.html]. Also, as we saw Google maps use Dnipro and well as following cites: [https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/ukraine/dnipro], [https://www.skyscanner.net/flights-to/dnk/cheap-flights-to-dnipro-airport.html], [https://www.gismeteo.com/city/daily/5077/], [https://weather.com/he-IL/weather/today/l/UPXX0010:1:UP], [http://www.mzv.cz/jnp/en/diplomatic_missions/czech_missions_abroad/ukraine_honorary_consulate_of_the_czech_1.html]. In addition, the only mentioning of Dnipropetrovsk lately is related to football club [[FC Dnipro Dnipropetrovsk]], in which Dnipropetrovsk a part of the name. In football to change the name of a team is quite a different story. Also, the second rate after Ukrainian, the city is mentioned in Russian language news and cites. What do we see there. The article is renamed in Russian wikipedia as well as news search in Russian: [https://www.google.co.il/webhp?sourceid=chrome-instant&ion=1&espv=2&ie=UTF-8&client=ubuntu#q=%D0%94%D0%BD%D0%B5%D0%BF%D1%80&tbm=nws]. So, I am still positive it's time to rename article here and I do agree [[Dnipro (former Dnipropetrovsk)]] may be quite a consensus for a while with redirection from [[Dnipro]], [[Dnipropetrovsk]] to it. [[User:Arthistorian1977|Arthistorian1977]] ([[User talk:Arthistorian1977|talk]]) 09:07, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::: Eurovision as main reason? Funny. Show as how city itself presents in English language - official city pages, airport, football club, brochures... Why is Oblast still with "old" name?! Why is name of football club still with "old" name which carries most of city references! It would help a LOT if city itself presented consistently, now it is a mess. Ask them, not Wikipedia, to change first. What did other wikipedias in their language is not relevant, each is considering sources in its language. Also google results are irrelevant, google results in English are important. [[Dnipro (former Dnipropetrovsk)]] - it would be against naming conventions. What about similar pages - [[Dnipropetrovsk Metro]] would be [[Dnipro Metro (former Dnipropetrovsk Metro)]]? [[User:Chrzwzcz|Chrzwzcz]] ([[User talk:Chrzwzcz|talk]]) 17:21, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::: Okay, lets look what do we have:
::::::::::::: Official city webpage: [http://gorod.dp.ua/eng/]. Called welcome to Dnipro city.
::::::::::::: Official airport cite: [http://dnk.aero/en/]. Dnepropetrovsk. But, interesting that Skyscanner and Orbitz refers to it as Dnipro airport and the airport cite does not look updated for a long time.
::::::::::::: Official city news portal: [http://dnepr.info/]. Dnepr.
::::::::::::: I am not sure the city is that popular tourist destination to have brochures, at least I didn't find anything on any cites, but lets look at popular travel cites:
:::::::::::::: Lonely Planet: [https://www.lonelyplanet.com/ukraine/dnipropetrovsk]. Dnipro.
:::::::::::::: Expedia: [https://www.expedia.co.in/Dnipro.d6885.Holidays-City-Breaks]. Dnipro
:::::::::::::: Travelocity: [https://www.travelocity.com/Dnipro.d6885.Destination-Travel-Guides]. Dnipro
:::::::::::::: Orbitz: [https://www.orbitz.com/lp/flights/6126369/6885/kiev-to-dnipro]. Dnipro
::::::::::::: Football club is called Dnipro and the main arena is called Dnipro Arena. [http://www.fcdnipro.ua/en/index/]
::::::::::::: As for oblast name, this is usual in post Soviet countries. Take into example [[Saint Petersburg]] in [[Leningrad Oblast]], [[Yekaterinburg]] in [[Sverdlovsk Oblast]].
::::::::::::: And the last one, don't diminish Eurovision. It's a major European event and the biggest, that was associated with the city in years to come probably. [[User:Arthistorian1977|Arthistorian1977]] ([[User talk:Arthistorian1977|talk]]) 09:40, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::::The city is called the same as the river in Ukrainian, should not the same logic be applied to English as well - Dnieper?
::::::::::::::Probably yes, but not "Dnepropetrovsk". Article in Russian uses the same name as a river. I do agree with you here. [[User:Arthistorian1977|Arthistorian1977]] ([[User talk:Arthistorian1977|talk]]) 22:01, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::::So - Travel sites - are these the most popular, or you chose the ones which supports you cause?
::::::::::::::Please, do not be mistaken, I don't have cause here. I am merely an encyclopedist, discussing a matter with a fellow colleagues. And yes, travel site I choose as an example are most popular. [[User:Arthistorian1977|Arthistorian1977]] ([[User talk:Arthistorian1977|talk]]) 22:01, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::::What about main tourist attractions in the city and their sites in English?
::::::::::::::There is no many tourist attraction on the city, having an English website. What I could find is [http://menorah-center.com/en/about/ Menorah Center] - It's written there that it's in the City of Dnepr, which is another transcription of Dniepr; [http://planetarium.dp.ua/ Planetarium] - the site is on Ukrainian, but calls city Dnipro. Again, it's not a world Mecca of tourism, so it quite hard to find english language pages for small amount of attractions there.
:::::::::::::Airport - too bad, airport is surely more important than that eurovision. Write them not here.
:::::::::::::: I don't think you're getting a point. We're not arguing, we're discussing, so I don't need to write anyone. [[User:Arthistorian1977|Arthistorian1977]] ([[User talk:Arthistorian1977|talk]]) 22:01, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::::What about city public transport? Is it Dnipro Metro? It is not. Write them not here.
:::::::::::::: [http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/ua/dnipro/dnipro.htm Urban Rail] calls it Dnipro Metro. [[User:Arthistorian1977|Arthistorian1977]] ([[User talk:Arthistorian1977|talk]]) 22:01, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::::Football club - site logo says "Dnepropetrovsk". Write them not here.
:::::::::::::Oblast - if the renaming was meant seriously, then this must be changed too. (constitution issue, as written below)
::::::::::::::As I said and showed examples above - oblast and city are different things. Surely you're not going to propose reverting [[Saint Petersburg]] to [[Leningrad]], because [[Leningrad Oblast]] wasn't renamed as Saint Petersburg oblast.
::::::::::::: In conclusion - if the city wants to be called Dnipro on Wiki, it should present as "Dnipro" outside Wikipedia as well and do something about it. Don't tell us that Dnipro is now official and that it is confusing that Wiki does not say it. What IS confusing - You travel to Dnipro, you end up on airport Dnipropetrovsk, then take Dnipropetrovsk Metro, visit Dnepropetrovsk FC Dnipro, see river Dnieper and read newspaper Dnepr. Wiki won't solve this and is not the first to be done. [[User:Chrzwzcz|Chrzwzcz]] ([[User talk:Chrzwzcz|talk]]) 17:42, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
::::::::::::: In my conclusion, city does not want anything from Wiki. We are discussing what we, Wikipedians want to see here. [[User:Arthistorian1977|Arthistorian1977]] ([[User talk:Arthistorian1977|talk]]) 22:01, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::::: Leningrad - Petersburg: No, the other way around. If UA passed "decommunisation" law to get rid of unfitting names, they should do it with Oblast too, otherwise it is breaking its own law in the first place. As you can see you found multiple transcriptions of the name used, it is a mess. Yes we are discussing and I don't say you specifically force something - but if someone else wants to force wikipedia to rename, they should do it in the city first and properly, write e-mail and persuade airport, metro, landmarks, etc... to loudly promote Dnipro, Dnieper or whatever they want to be called in English. Metro - the logo in Ukrainian says [Dnipropetrovskyi] so I doubt English name would be the new one. [[User:Chrzwzcz|Chrzwzcz]] ([[User talk:Chrzwzcz|talk]]) 22:44, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
::::::::::::::: but the Leningrad oblast wasn't renamed and stayed as is and no one forced anyone to do it. And again, I don't want anything but to establish what we do here and either we leave it as is or change. [[User:Arthistorian1977|Arthistorian1977]] ([[User talk:Arthistorian1977|talk]]) 15:37, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::::::: Why are we talking about Leningrad as example of illogical Oblast names, that's Russia. Ukraine went its own way - to loudly get rid of old name. So let them show us that it is meant seriously and new name is visible where it should be visible. Now it is not, as we established. They renamed it on paper but "city sign" on the road remained the same (well maybe not city sign, but we found lots of examples). [[User:Chrzwzcz|Chrzwzcz]] ([[User talk:Chrzwzcz|talk]]) 16:13, 13 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::The name has not really changed for normal people. They carry on calling the city Dnepropetrovsk and Dnipropetrovsk. Today there was the announcement of the winner of a competition - the winner was identified as being from Dnipropetrovsk [sic]. For political people in Ukraine, the name has perhaps changed.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 20:27, 11 January 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::::: I don't think we're in position to talk about "normal" and "political" people. As encyclopedists, we operate facts, and facts only. [[User:Arthistorian1977|Arthistorian1977]] ([[User talk:Arthistorian1977|talk]]) 09:42, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
::::::::::::: The oblast wasn't renamed because it's mentioned in the Constitution. The preparations for change are being made, but it seems the parliament wants to vote for a single package of amendments, which will also include changes concerning judicial reform and decentralization. [[User:Dotoner|Dotoner]] ([[User talk:Dotoner|talk]]) 10:47, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Arthistorian1977 claimed that "the airport cite does not look updated for a long time." But http://dnk.aero/en/ had the news last updated on [http://dnk.aero/en/news/97 28 December 2016]:
:::::::::::::::Dear guests, partners and colleagues!
:::::::::::::::Congratulations to you and your family Happy New Year and Merry Christmas!
:::::::::::::::In this, the most magical holiday of the year, we wish first of all wish-fulfillment!
:::::::::::::::Let this New Year become the special for you! Let the most desirable dreams will come true, unexpected and glad events will happen, and life will be filled with love, kindness and light!
:::::::::::::::Successes to you, happiness and prosperity!
:::::::::::::::With best regards
:::::::::::::::International airport “Dnepropetrovsk”
::::::::::::::The part of the airport website for flights is updated all through the day. That is part of its purpose to tell customers about arrival and departure flights, whether they are late, etc. The name is not an accident, it is the real name in the English language.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 21:11, 12 January 2017 (UTC)
This thread should be closed. The two [[WP:SPA|single-purpose accounts]] have not convinced established editors that the English name for Dnipro has changed. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 17:53, 21 February 2017 (UTC)
{{abot}}
== Climate ==
{{ping|Carnby}} Thanks for correcting the climate data in the article.[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dnipropetrovsk&type=revision&diff=777976978&oldid=777505710][https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dnipropetrovsk&type=revision&diff=778144622&oldid=778138924] If you look at [[Talk:Dnipropetrovsk/Archive 2#Weather "data"|the archives of the talk page]] as recommended by Paulandys, you will see that Ssbbplayer and I both calculated the Köppen-Geiger climate classifications from climate data and the Köppen-Geiger climate classification formulae. Depending on which data set we used, we got Dfa (1981–2010 data) or Dfb (1951–2000 data).--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 12:18, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
:We may add this information. In fact, Dnipropetrovsk is borderline Dfa/Dfb using 1981-2010 dataset, due to July temperature slightly above the 22°C limit by Köppen. But yes, taking a different 30-year period it might fall under Dfb.--[[User:Carnby|Carnby]] ([[User talk:Carnby|talk]]) 12:27, 1 May 2017 (UTC)
=== Weather box based on measurements ===
{{Weather box|___location = Dnipropetrovsk
|metric first = y
|single line = Yes
| Jan record high C = 12.3
| Feb record high C = 17.5
| Mar record high C = 24.1
| Apr record high C = 31.8
| May record high C = 36.1
| Jun record high C = 37.8
| Jul record high C = 39.8
| Aug record high C = 40.9
| Sep record high C = 36.5
| Oct record high C = 32.6
| Nov record high C = 20.6
| Dec record high C = 16.3
|year record high C = 40.9
| Jan high C = -1.0
| Feb high C = 0.0
| Mar high C = 6.0
| Apr high C = 15.2
| May high C = 22.1
| Jun high C = 25.6
| Jul high C = 28.0
| Aug high C = 27.5
| Sep high C = 21.5
| Oct high C = 13.8
| Nov high C = 5.1
| Dec high C = 0.2
|year high C = 13.7
| Jan mean C = -3.6
| Feb mean C = -3.4
| Mar mean C = 1.8
| Apr mean C = 9.7
| May mean C = 16.2
| Jun mean C = 19.9
| Jul mean C = 22.1
| Aug mean C = 21.4
| Sep mean C = 15.6
| Oct mean C = 8.9
| Nov mean C = 2.0
| Dec mean C = -2.4
|year mean C = 9.0
| Jan low C = -6.1
| Feb low C = -6.3
| Mar low C = -1.6
| Apr low C = 4.9
| May low C = 10.6
| Jun low C = 14.6
| Jul low C = 16.7
| Aug low C = 15.8
| Sep low C = 10.7
| Oct low C = 5.0
| Nov low C = -0.6
| Dec low C = -4.7
|year low C = 4.9
| Jan record low C = -30.0
| Feb record low C = -27.8
| Mar record low C = -19.2
| Apr record low C = -8.2
| May record low C = -2.4
| Jun record low C = 3.9
| Jul record low C = 5.9
| Aug record low C = 3.9
| Sep record low C = -3.0
| Oct record low C = -8.0
| Nov record low C = -17.9
| Dec record low C = -27.8
|year record low C = -30.0
| precipitation colour = green
| Jan precipitation mm = 45
| Feb precipitation mm = 43
| Mar precipitation mm = 43
| Apr precipitation mm = 38
| May precipitation mm = 42
| Jun precipitation mm = 60
| Jul precipitation mm = 54
| Aug precipitation mm = 43
| Sep precipitation mm = 41
| Oct precipitation mm = 37
| Nov precipitation mm = 46
| Dec precipitation mm = 47
|year precipitation mm = 539
|Jan humidity= 88
|Feb humidity= 85
|Mar humidity= 79
|Apr humidity= 67
|May humidity= 62
|Jun humidity= 66
|Jul humidity= 65
|Aug humidity= 62
|Sep humidity= 70
|Oct humidity= 77
|Nov humidity= 87
|Dec humidity= 88
|year humidity= 75
| Jan rain days = 9
| Feb rain days = 8
| Mar rain days = 11
| Apr rain days = 13
| May rain days = 13
| Jun rain days = 13
| Jul rain days = 12
| Aug rain days = 9
| Sep rain days = 10
| Oct rain days = 11
| Nov rain days = 12
| Dec rain days = 11
|year rain days = 132
|Jan snow days = 16
|Feb snow days = 15
|Mar snow days = 9
|Apr snow days = 1
|May snow days = 0
|Jun snow days = 0
|Jul snow days = 0
|Aug snow days = 0
|Sep snow days = 0
|Oct snow days = 1
|Nov snow days = 7
|Dec snow days = 15
|year snow days = 64
|source 1 = Pogoda.ru.net<ref name="pogoda">{{cite web
|url = http://pogoda.ru.net/climate/34504.htm| publisher = Pogoda.ru.net| accessdate =7 August 2016
|title =Климат Днепропетровска (Climate of Dnipropetrovsk)| language = Russian|date=2016}}</ref>
}}
=== Weather box based on model-generated data ===
{{Weather box||___location = Dnipropetrovsk, (1996–2015 normals,{{efn|Mean monthly maxima and minima (i.e. the expected highest and lowest temperature readings at any point during the year or given month) calculated based on data at said ___location from 1996 to 2015.}} extremes 1879–present){{efn|The official Dnipropetrovsk climatology station was located from April 1879.}}
|metric first = Y
|single line = Y
|Jan record high C = 12.3
|Feb record high C = 17.5
|Mar record high C = 24.1
|Apr record high C = 31.8
|May record high C = 36.1
|Jun record high C = 37.8
|Jul record high C = 39.8
|Aug record high C = 40.9
|Sep record high C = 36.5
|Oct record high C = 32.6
|Nov record high C = 20.6
|Dec record high C = 16.3
|year record high C = 40.9
|Jan high C = 2.2
|Feb high C = 4.2
|Mar high C = 12.1
|Apr high C = 16.4
|May high C = 22.2
|Jun high C = 28.3
|Jul high C = 32.5
|Aug high C = 30.8
|Sep high C = 26.2
|Oct high C = 18.2
|Nov high C = 9.7
|Dec high C = 3.2
|year high C = 17.2
|Jan mean C = -1.8
|Feb mean C = -0.6
|Mar mean C = 5.6
|Apr mean C = 10.7
|May mean C = 15.5
|Jun mean C = 21.0
|Jul mean C = 25.1
|Aug mean C = 24.1
|Sep mean C = 19.0
|Oct mean C = 11.7
|Nov mean C = 5.2
|Dec mean C = -0.5
|year mean C = 11.4
|Jan low C = -5.8
|Feb low C = -5.3
|Mar low C = 0.7
|Apr low C = 5.0
|May low C = 8.8
|Jun low C = 13.6
|Jul low C = 17.6
|Aug low C = 17.4
|Sep low C = 11.7
|Oct low C = 5.2
|Nov low C = 0.8
|Dec low C = -3.8
|year low C = 5.5
|Jan avg record high F = 51.0
|Feb avg record high F = 58.1
|Mar avg record high F = 70.2
|Apr avg record high F = 80.1
|May avg record high F = 88.8
|Jun avg record high F = 97.7
|Jul avg record high F =101.5
|Aug avg record high F = 99.4
|Sep avg record high F = 93.7
|Oct avg record high F = 82.0
|Nov avg record high F = 67.0
|Dec avg record high F = 54.0
|year avg record high F=102.2
|Jan avg record low F = 6.6
|Feb avg record low F = 9.4
|Mar avg record low F = 21.0
|Apr avg record low F = 28.8
|May avg record low F = 34.5
|Jun avg record low F = 43.3
|Jul avg record low F = 55.1
|Aug avg record low F = 52.2
|Sep avg record low F = 39.9
|Oct avg record low F = 29.9
|Nov avg record low F = 16.6
|Dec avg record low F = 7.7
|year avg record low F = 1.0
|Jan record low C = -30.0
|Feb record low C = -27.8
|Mar record low C = -19.2
|Apr record low C = -8.2
|May record low C = -2.4
|Jun record low C = 3.9
|Jul record low C = 5.9
|Aug record low C = 3.9
|Sep record low C = -3.0
|Oct record low C = -8.0
|Nov record low C = -17.9
|Dec record low C = -27.8
|year record low C = -30.0
|precipitation colour = green
|Jan precipitation mm = 45
|Feb precipitation mm = 43
|Mar precipitation mm = 43
|Apr precipitation mm = 38
|May precipitation mm = 42
|Jun precipitation mm = 60
|Jul precipitation mm = 54
|Aug precipitation mm = 43
|Sep precipitation mm = 41
|Oct precipitation mm = 37
|Nov precipitation mm = 46
|Dec precipitation mm = 47
|year precipitation mm = 539
|Jan snow cm = 9.4
|Feb snow cm = 6.6
|Mar snow cm = 2.3
|Apr snow cm = 0.5
|May snow cm = 0.0
|Jun snow cm = 0.0
|Jul snow cm = 0.0
|Aug snow cm = 0.0
|Sep snow cm = 0.0
|Oct snow cm = 0.3
|Nov snow cm = 3.3
|Dec snow cm = 9.4
|year snow cm = 31.5
|Jan precipitation days = 10.2
|Feb precipitation days = 9.5
|Mar precipitation days = 9.9
|Apr precipitation days = 9.5
|May precipitation days = 9.0
|Jun precipitation days = 5.6
|Jul precipitation days = 4.5
|Aug precipitation days = 5.6
|Sep precipitation days = 5.8
|Oct precipitation days = 7.1
|Nov precipitation days = 9.1
|Dec precipitation days = 10.1
|year precipitation days = 95.9
|Jan snow days = 6.2
|Feb snow days = 4.8
|Mar snow days = 3.2
|Apr snow days = 0.1
|May snow days = 0.0
|Jun snow days = 0.0
|Jul snow days = 0.0
|Aug snow days = 0.0
|Sep snow days = 0.0
|Oct snow days = 0.9
|Nov snow days = 1.6
|Dec snow days = 4.5
|year snow days = 21.3
|Jan humidity = 83.3
|Feb humidity = 76.8
|Mar humidity = 71.6
|Apr humidity = 64.5
|May humidity = 58.9
|Jun humidity = 55.0
|Jul humidity = 53.2
|Aug humidity = 55.7
|Sep humidity = 57.0
|Oct humidity = 63.1
|Nov humidity = 75.6
|Dec humidity = 82.9
|year humidity = 66.5
|Jan sun = 127.1
|Feb sun = 162.4
|Mar sun = 241.8
|Apr sun = 270.0
|May sun = 322.4
|Jun sun = 360.0
|Jul sun = 381.3
|Aug sun = 353.4
|Sep sun = 300.0
|Oct sun = 248.0
|Nov sun = 150.0
|Dec sun = 111.6
|year sun = 3028.0
|Jan percentsun = 42
|Feb percentsun = 55
|Mar percentsun = 67
|Apr percentsun = 67
|May percentsun = 72
|Jun percentsun = 81
|Jul percentsun = 83
|Aug percentsun = 82
|Sep percentsun = 81
|Oct percentsun = 72
|Nov percentsun = 50
|Dec percentsun = 38
|year percentsun = 68
|source 1 = Meteoblue Weather<ref name="Meteoblue Weather">
{{cite web
|url=https://www.meteoblue.com/en/weather/forecast/modelclimate/dnipro_ukraine_709930
|title=Climate Dnipro - MOWD
|publisher=Meteoblue Weather|accessdate = May 11, 2017}}</ref>
|source 2 = weather2travel.com (sun only)<ref name="HKO">{{cite web|
url=http://www.weather2travel.com/climate-guides/ukraine/dnepropetrovsk.php
|title=DnepropetrovskClimate Guide
|publisher=weather2travel.com|accessdate = May 11, 2017}}</ref>
}}
<references/>
=== Discussion ===
In stating that he/she preferred the model-generated data from www.meteoblue.com, [[Special:Contributions/Paulandys|Paulandys]] stated that:
*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dnipropetrovsk&diff=prev&oldid=781454521] Your inf. is too old.
*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dnipropetrovsk&diff=prev&oldid=781455584] Modeling or not, this is not so important as that in the summer of the last 20 years 30+ temperatures and the fact that it is better to have at least some data on solar indicators than not to have at all, and count more data for a period o...
*[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dnipropetrovsk&diff=prev&oldid=781456630] Your data is a description of the last century, it's not true, my data is closer to reality. Calculate the time periods of temperature for a period of 20 or 30 years, I did it, so do you, and if you do not want, then treat at least with resp
The www.meteoblue.com states that its data "are based on 30 years of hourly weather model simulations" and that the "data is derived from our global NEMS weather model at approximately 30km resolution and cannot reproduce detail local weather effects, such as heat islands, cold air flows, thunderstorms or tornadoes." The data are a "simulated climate data-set".
The other source Paulandys favours is http://www.weather2travel.com/climate-guides/ukraine/dnepropetrovsk.php#other weather2travel.com], though only for sun data.
It seems much better to use real data from a reliable source that uses measurements of the weather, such as Pogoda.ru.net. Paulandys says that the data in that source are too old - yet [http://www.pogodaiklimat.ru/climate/34504.htm the page for Dnepropetrovsk] contains data on extremes that gives the year, and many of these years are in the past 15 years. The data from pogodaiklimat.ru in the above weather box was last updated in August 2016; if you compare this with the source, you can see that the weather box needs updating again, because measurements over the past 9 months have resulted in changes to averages on the pogodaiklimat.ru page. Clearly the allegation that pogodaiklimat.ru is too old is not true.
The number of "average snowy days" is very different between the real data from pogodaiklimat.ru and the simulated data from www.meteoblue.com. Though it depends on what you mean by a snowy day:
*meteoblue.com 23 days per year. This uses the meaning: days on which there was precipitation in the form of snow.
*pogodaiklimat.ru 64 days per year. Same definition.
*pogodaiklimat.ru 72 days with snow cover per year. Days on which there was snow on the ground.
Another interesting comparison is to look at temperature for particular month - I chose January. This is something that all three websites provide data for. To my surprise, the weather box supposedly based on meteoblue.com has different values than that shown on the meteoblue.com website.
*Average daily maximum temperature (January)
**Weather box based on meteoblue.com +2.2°C
**meteoblue.com 0°C
**weather2travel.com -2°C
**pogodaiklimat.ru -1.0°C
*Average daily minimum temperature (January)
**Weather box based on meteoblue.com -5.8°C
**meteoblue.com -5°C
**weather2travel.com -8°C
**pogodaiklimat.ru -6.1°C
I believe that we should use the pogodaiklimat.ru data.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 11:37, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
Here is another website [http://www.weatheronline.co.uk/weather/maps/city?FMM=1&FYY=1982&LMM=12&LYY=2017&WMO=34504&CONT=euro®ION=0006&LAND=UR&ART=TMX&R=160&NOREGION=1&LEVEL=162&LANG=en&MOD=tab weatheronline.co.uk]. It allows us to see which data we want to use. I have therefore looked at three time periods: 1982-now. Jan 2000 to Dec 2016, and Jan 2016 to Dec 2016:
*Days with snow:
**90.0 days (1982-2017)
**99.2 days (2000-2016)
**96 days (2016 only)
*Average daily maximum temperature (January):
**-1.5°C (1982-2017)
**-1.4°C (2000-2016)
**-2.9°C (2016 only)
*Average daily minimum temperature (January):
**-5.8°C (1982-2017)
**-5.8°C (2000-2016)
**-8.8°C (2016 only)
I assume that this is real data, and not synthetic data like meteoblue.com.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 15:22, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
:I would like to add that mean maximums and mean minimums are not shown in the meteoblue website. The sunshine data entered in the weatherbox does not match from the weather2travel.com source (both monthly and daily values are shown).
*Mean sunshine hour (January)
**Weather box based on weather2travel.com 127.1 (4.1 hr/day)
**weather2travel.com 61 (2 hr/day)
*Mean sunshine hour (July)
**Weather box based on weather2travel.com 381.3 (12.3 hr/day)
**weather2travel.com 310 (10 hr/day)
It would mean the entire data is unsourced and this is not acceptable in Wikipedia per [[WP:Verifiability]]. I will still stick with the pogodaiklimat.ru data. There is no point in inserting made up data not backed up by any of the sources used. As for the claim that the data is closer to reality, that is based on one's opinion. Anyone can claim that the city has temperatures close to x degrees in the last x years. To verify that requires observed data since it is neutral and more accurate. Lastly, the claim that it is better to have at least some data on solar indicators than not to have at all is not the best. Unreliable sources such as weather2travel.com have no fact checking to indicate if the data is reliable or not. They are only using it for marketing purposes. It is bad to insert unreliable weather data and misinforming readers about the climate of the city. [[User:Ssbbplayer|Ssbbplayer]] ([[User talk:Ssbbplayer|talk]]) 15:38, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
== Imagery ==
[[Commons:Commons:Deletion requests/2017/05/21#Files of User:Paulandys|Commons:Deletion requests/Files of User:Paulandys]] may be of interest.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 19:08, 21 May 2017 (UTC)
== What is needed for the move to happen? ==
I hope everyone realizes that in the end the article will be moved <small>(unless the city is renamed back but that is not the thing I am about to talk)</small>.<br />Could anyone please tell the conditions? '''How many''' citations of reliable sources will be enough? So that one day I could come back to this talk page, put a list of references and request the move that will be proceeded smoothly. Please take me seriously. --[[User:Ата|<span style="color:steelblue">Ата</span>]] <sup>[[Обговорення користувача:Ата|<b style="color:#80A0FF;">(talk)</b>]]</sup> 16:03, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
:[[File:Smiley.svg|15px]] Read [[Talk:Dnipropetrovsk#Requested move 17 July 2016]]. It says "let usage evolve and revisit the issue after a year". So why not propose the move for the third time on 3rd August 2017. And yes, I firmly expect that one day the article will be moved... to Dnepropetrovsk [[File:Smiley.svg|15px]] --<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 19:50, 3 August 2016 (UTC)
::And it also has a question mark after this sentence. Year is a very long period of time. --[[User:Ата|<span style="color:steelblue">Ата</span>]] <sup>[[Обговорення користувача:Ата|<b style="color:#80A0FF;">(talk)</b>]]</sup> 20:38, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
:I think third request for move can be opened without waiting for a year. As for now, there are a lot of evidence for a new name usage. Everything, related to Eurovision uses it - [http://esctoday.com/136894/eurovision-2017-ebu-visits-inspects-dnipro], [http://www.eurovision.tv/page/news?id=kyiv_dnipro_and_odessa_shortlisted_to_host_eurovision_2017]. Also, the following references show widespread usage of a new name in English: [http://www.railwaygazette.com/news/news/europe/single-view/view/dnipro-metro-extension-contract-signed.html], [http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/economic/359132.html], [http://en.interfax.com.ua/news/economic/358505.html], [http://uatoday.tv/society/vaccination-crisis-in-ukraine-thousands-kids-left-exposed-to-serious-diseases-709327.html], [http://uatoday.tv/society/water-patrol-police-launched-in-city-of-dnipro-674786.html], [http://nashemisto.dp.ua/2016/07/08/v-dnepre-proshel-vtoroj-etap-the-great-dnipro-cup-2016/], [http://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/verkhovna-rada-renames-dnipropetrovsk-as-dnipro-414096.html]. Actually, my personal opinion that the Rada's decision is quite enough to change the name of an article. [[User:Arthistorian1977|Arthistorian1977]] ([[User talk:Arthistorian1977|talk]]) 09:57, 4 August 2016 (UTC)
::The Rada's decision is UTTERLY IRRELEVANT to the English language Wikipedia. You clearly have no understanding of [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. This isn't the Ukrainian Wikipedia. Three requests in three months is a waste of Wikipedia time. Why don't you actually do something productive? Waiting a year is nothing in Wikipedia. Instead of [[WP:CRYSTALBALL|predicting]] that a change may happen, just act like an adult and wait for it to happen. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 21:33, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
:::Let say that you should learn a rules of polite discussion. [[Wikipedia:The Rules of Polite Discourse|This essay]] may help you with this. [[User:Arthistorian1977|Arthistorian1977]] ([[User talk:Arthistorian1977|talk]]) 22:12, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
:By the way, there are examples of name changes that were made quite quickly. For exaxmple [[Bakhmut]], [[Kamianske]], [[Chornomorsk]] changed the names in 2016 and almost immediately articles were renamed. An older change - [[Staines-upon-Thames]] was renamed from [[Staines]] and renamed here almost instantly. I assume it's quite a logical approach, when a sovereign changes the name of something on it's territory and the news sources start using that name, gradually increasing the amount of reliable sources we can use here. No one can say that Eurovision related sources are not reliable. And I don't see any [[WP:CRYSTALBALL]] here. And one more fact - the article is renamed not only in Ukrainian wikipedia. The new name is in German, Russian ( !!! ), Hebrew, French and many others. [[User:Arthistorian1977|Arthistorian1977]] ([[User talk:Arthistorian1977|talk]]) 22:41, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
::And perhaps rather than wasting Wikipedia time once a month with another move request, you find more constructive things to do that actually improve the encyclopedia rather than pushing the Rada's bidding. And it doesn't matter one whit what the other Wikipedias do. All that matters is English common name. Period. No one said that Eurovision reporting wasn't reliable. But that is not the sum of English common usage. And none of the other examples you cited were major cities. [[Kiev]] and [[Odessa]] are still not at Ukrainian language locations because of English common usage. Dnipro is not a hole-in-the-wall. It is a major city and its name occurs in English language sources. Are you so impatient that you have to move as fast as possible after the Rada dictates? Waiting for a time is appropriate to see where English common usage moves with respect to the name of this city. Two months is not an eternity. One year is not an eternity. After a year, English common usage will be crystal clear. You don't win points for moving this article as fast as possible. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 23:00, 5 August 2016 (UTC)
:::Well, the change is not using Ukrainian name vs. not Ukrainian, but a complete change of the name. In case of change from Dnipropetrovsk to something like Dnypropetrovsk, I would agree with you. [[Kiev]] and [[Odessa]] are the way city names pronounced in English. But, anyway, at this point I can do only one productive thing here, which is excuse myself from discussing things with you, since you clearly don't understand a polite way of having a discussion. Wasting time is the continuation of talking to you. I will allow to myself to disagree with your point of view and end my interaction at this point. [[User:Arthistorian1977|Arthistorian1977]] ([[User talk:Arthistorian1977|talk]]) 10:50, 6 August 2016 (UTC)
Unfortunately it looks like that despite consensus to move, it'll keep being held up in wiki-bureaucracy because it's not unanimous, held up by the old timers fighting the reality of the name change and it's clear use in English media since. Also I think Taivo is being a little disingenuous here, I looked at his "list" of Dnipropetrovsk used in current sources and they were all travel sites that just hadn't been updated yet - one page was from 2011. This is just shady sourcing to pad numbers. --'''''BLACK FUTURE''''' <small>([[User talk:Black Future|tlk2meh]])</small> 19:50, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
:Perhaps you need to study [[WP:CONSENSUS]]. Consensus is [[WP:NOTAVOTE|not a majority vote]]. It is agreement and there is no agreement here. It doesn't matter whether the "old timers" disagree or not. There is no consensus that English common usage has changed. Surely there is some evidence that it is beginning to change, but there is sufficient evidence to show that the change is not particularly widespread at this time. Eliminate the publicity about Eurovision and there is very, very little evidence of the change yet. So just learn the meaning of the word "patience". We will revisit the issue in the near future (not next month, but several months from now). By then the situation in English usage may be clearer, but for now there is enough doubt to not bow to the will of the Rada just because they say so. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 21:06, 9 August 2016 (UTC)
::Double standards Mr Toivo ([[Dnipropetrovsk]] — [[Kamianske]]). --[[User:ValeriySh|ValeriySh]] ([[User talk:ValeriySh|talk]]) 12:00, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
:::Spelling lessons, Mr. ValeriySh. And it's not a "double standard". It's [[WP:OTHERSTUFF]]. Kamianske is a ___location that doesn't have a common English name because it is never mentioned in English outside Wikipedia. Dnipro is not in that category. It is a major city and occurs in English media outside Wikipedia. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 16:16, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
::::That is not strictly true, Dneprodzerzhinsk is mentioned in biographies of (1) [[Leonid Ilyich Brezhnev]] and (2) [[Vera Brezhneva]] because they were born there. However, Kamianske is the historic name - when Brezhnev was born, the city was not Dneprodzerzhinsk.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 20:01, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
[[File:Seriously Bummed (4685136522).jpg|thumb|left|Meanwhile nothing to do then to wait]]
I'm actually hoping that the city will host the [[Eurovision Song Contest 2017]] and then in English media will massively be referred to as "Dnipro". [[File:Lol1.png]] If such a thing would happen then waiting another year to rename this article will be rather silly.... — '''[[User:Yulia Romero|<span style="font-family:Script MT;color:orange">Yulia Romero</span>]]''' • [[User_talk:Yulia Romero|<span style="font-family:Script MT;color:blue">Talk to me!</span>]] 22:15, 10 August 2016 (UTC)
:::Just a comment. This whole discussion is, pardon me for such word, stupid and as [[User:ValeriySh|ValeriySh]] said has '''double standards''' all over it. The article was not moved due to the fact that some members of Wikipedia do not want to face the reality. They live in their own "Wikipedia World" coming up with weird rules about what is mentioned and not as well as counting Google hits instead of expressing the truth. Same type of editors came out back in 2014 editing bunch of self-invented articles about various separatist states and political parties. [[User:Aleksandr Grigoryev|Aleksandr Grigoryev]] ([[User talk:Aleksandr Grigoryev|talk]]) 23:37, 21 August 2016 (UTC)
::::[[File:CCB sad emoticon.jpg|20px]] Wikipedia is a terrible place to be a [[truther]]. I am sorry that you do not like the [[Wikipedia:Core content policies|"weird rules"]], that require a neutral point of view, verifiability and no cherry-picking of sources. It is imperfect and frustrating.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 08:16, 22 August 2016 (UTC)
:::Toddy1, you need to keep your unnecessary empathy to yourself. What you just called weird rules, I have no problem and the cherry-picking is what you do. Let's be truthful to each other. [[User:Aleksandr Grigoryev|Aleksandr Grigoryev]] ([[User talk:Aleksandr Grigoryev|talk]]) 00:14, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
:Did the majority of votes on the issue called for move or not? So, what are we still discussing here? It only will cause more conflicts on Wikipedia. Is that your goal? Is that the Wikipedia's goal? [[User:Aleksandr Grigoryev|Aleksandr Grigoryev]] ([[User talk:Aleksandr Grigoryev|talk]]) 00:37, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
:Was the issue connected to a systematic changes that were taking place in Ukraine as part of decommunization? Yes, it was. The statement that the name change took place only in Ukrainian language is wrong. The name was changed regardless of language. [[User:Aleksandr Grigoryev|Aleksandr Grigoryev]] ([[User talk:Aleksandr Grigoryev|talk]]) 00:42, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
:For the changes to the city's name voted the Dnipro city's council, majority of which is composed of Russophone and pro-Russian citizens of Dnipro city. Even the city's portal says [http://gorod.dp.ua/eng/ Welcome to Dnipro City!] [[User:Aleksandr Grigoryev|Aleksandr Grigoryev]] ([[User talk:Aleksandr Grigoryev|talk]]) 00:53, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
:'''Dnipro''' is the city's name on [[Google Maps]]. [[User:Aleksandr Grigoryev|Aleksandr Grigoryev]] ([[User talk:Aleksandr Grigoryev|talk]]) 00:57, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
::Will you be proposing that the article on [[Kamianske]] be renamed '''Dniprodzerzhyns'k''' on the basis that that is the name used by [[Google Maps]]?--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 01:19, 8 September 2016 (UTC)
{{Re|Aim4accuracy}} What is needed? I will repeat what I wrote in different section which is now closed:
Look how city itself presents in English language - official city pages, airport, football club, brochures... oblast name... Why is name of football club still with "old" name which carries most of city references!!! It would help '''a LOT''' if city itself presented consistently, now it is a mess (something renamed, most same as before). '''Ask them, not Wikipedia, to change first.''' Write e-mail and persuade airport, metro, landmarks, etc... to loudly promote Dnipro, Dnieper or whatever they want to be called in English. So let them show us that it is meant seriously and new name is visible where it should be visible IN THE CITY ITSELF. Now it is not. They renamed it on paper (in law) but "city sign" on the road remained the same (well maybe not city sign, but we found lots of examples). No propaganda reasons involved, only sloppiness of execution in the city itself. [[User:Chrzwzcz|Chrzwzcz]] ([[User talk:Chrzwzcz|talk]]) 17:38, 3 March 2017 (UTC)
:This POV push on this talk page is too obvious. First, airport name is Dnepropetrovsk airport. The airport doesnt automatically follow the name of the city it is based in, it has its own name that hasnt been changed. [[Vienna International Airport]] is based in town of Schwechat, not Vienna but we are not renaming [[Schwechat]] into Vienna because of that. Second, we are not discussing airport here, we are discussing city here. Fourth, you cannot throw around all the time arguments that what matters is common name and then argue with official names that you dismissed in the same post. Its hypocritical.
:Football club name is FC Dnipro, name of metro is Dnipro metro as it falls under Ministry of Transportation, not City Hall, landmarks names are landmark names.
:Morever, we have to follow [[WP:NAMECHANGES]], not [[WP:IDONTLIKEIT]]
:''Sometimes, the subject of an article will undergo a change of name. When this occurs, the COMMONNAME section of this page still applies, but we give extra weight to sources written after the name change is announced. If the sources written after the change is announced routinely use the new name, Wikipedia should follow suit and change relevant titles to match. If, on the other hand, sources written after the name change is announced continue to use the established name, Wikipedia should continue to do so as well, per COMMONNAME.''
:So, lets have a quick look at Google News that generally includes [[WP:RS]]. "Dnipro" searches in all articles since 19/05/2016 gives us 37,400 results. "Dnipropetrovsk" 4770 results. Meaning that nearly 90 percent of articles about the city in post-renaming period, as per Wiki rules, use name Dnipro as opposed to Dnipropetrovsk. The latter actually in vast majority reffers to region, and not city, which has its own wiki page.
:As a result, your argument is invalid, strongly on side of POV, and current situation is nonsensical and it is difficult to not feel politics behind the furious defense of the keepign the current name. While discussion last year rationale was to wait and see if [[WP:RS]] will pick up, now a year after renaming we can see crystal clear trend of reliable sources to name the city as "Dnipro". [[User:EllsworthSK|EllsworthSK]] ([[User talk:EllsworthSK|talk]]) 15:24, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
::Keep your POV rant to yourself and [[WP:AGF|assume good faith]] on the part of all editors involved here. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 16:23, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
:::I want to oppose you just because of your arrogance and rudeness accusing me of POV. But the evidence does seem to indicate that English-language sources have switched the name of the city to Dnipro (although not the region) over the last year. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 16:30, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
::::I havent been even reacting on you, but if you cannot even remain civil, which is basic requirement for any wiki editor, you should seriously think about [[WP:WIKIBREAK]]. Though its good to see that despite that you can acknowledge the shift in RS reports regarding the city based on evidence. I recommend opening another move proposal while notifying all those who participated in previous two discussions. [[User:EllsworthSK|EllsworthSK]] ([[User talk:EllsworthSK|talk]]) 19:49, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
::::Before you get defensive, [[User:EllsworthSK]], remember that it was you who started the personal attacks with, "As a result, your argument is invalid, strongly on side of POV, and current situation is nonsensical and it is difficult to not feel politics behind the furious defense of the keepign the current name." Remove the personal attack at the front end and the last half of your comment is perfectly appropriate. You have to be careful on this page. There is not a single, solitary editor here who is pro-Russian (which is what you are implying) or that supports the Russian invasion of Ukraine. Those of us who have a personal POV are all on the same side--pro-Ukraine--so accusations of political bias are not only unwarranted, but offensive. But we don't edit Wikipedia through our personal bias. We follow the procedures and standards of Wikipedia. I suggest you do the same and assume that the rest of us do as well. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 20:37, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::Again, you are showing exactly what you are accusing me of and I will not play this game. You didnt once discuss the article, nor its proposed changes, only me. Think about [[WP:WIKIBREAK]]. And to add something actually contributing, I will tomorrow open discussion for move. If you have any other suggestions, please write it here. [[User:EllsworthSK|EllsworthSK]] ([[User talk:EllsworthSK|talk]]) 20:49, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
::::::You have clearly not read anything here from the past to accuse me of not discussing the article. And your continued self-righteous false indignation is inappropriate. It is not I who needs a [[WP:WIKIBREAK]], but you. You seem to be of the opinion that if anyone disagrees with you, then they are motivated by a negative POV. If you are incapable of [[WP:AGF]], then you need to do something else with your life besides editing Wikipedia. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 21:52, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::::Again, Im not interested in your attacks. If you are unable toto act civil, do a favor to others and at least bring it to my talkpage and don't pollute this discussion with this ramble. If you are interested in actual discussion regarding the article, I am willing to listen. But not to your attacks that above all tarnish your own reputation,such as it is. [[User:EllsworthSK|EllsworthSK]] ([[User talk:EllsworthSK|talk]]) 14:56, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
::::::::You are the one who started the attacks, so perhaps you need to take a dose of your own medicine. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 15:15, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
:::::::::We're done here. Hope you will be able to stay on topic in reopened discussion. [[User:EllsworthSK|EllsworthSK]] ([[User talk:EllsworthSK|talk]]) 15:22, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
::::::::::And I hope that you will be able to get on topic without trying to impute political agendas to those with opposing points of view based on Wikipedia policy. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 15:29, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
:: Your accusations are nonsense. No politics, I just say it is hard to change Wikipedia IF city itself DOES NOT use the name (or does not use it consistently). So airport will still be Dnipropetrovsk and it does not bother you? And Oblast will be Dnipropetrovsk? Is THAT a politics issue then too?!? If Dnipropetrovsk is so eww name for you, why only as a name of city but another uses are OK? THAT is hypocritical. BUT if it is true that English sources now use Dnipro, prove it and move can be done. But it should be common articles and sources, not news about renaming itself. [[User:Chrzwzcz|Chrzwzcz]] ([[User talk:Chrzwzcz|talk]]) 21:43, 27 May 2017 (UTC)
:::It does not bother me. And as for proofs, Google News clicks I added are a proof. I will wirte more in reopened discussion later today and you are welcome to counter-argument with your sources. [[User:EllsworthSK|EllsworthSK]] ([[User talk:EllsworthSK|talk]]) 14:58, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
::::It does not bother you? So your only purpose is to change it on Wikipedia, and it does not matter if it is used in real life or not. Nice. Or you hope that once it is changed on Wikipedia, everybody will follow :) I can find 100 sources supporting change to, but I may find 1000 opposite sources. You may save us some work, be honest and present real usage in percents ;) [[User:Chrzwzcz|Chrzwzcz]] ([[User talk:Chrzwzcz|talk]]) 15:59, 28 May 2017 (UTC)
== Requested move 16 July 2017 ==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[WP:requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section. ''
The result of the move request was: '''Moved as proposed'''. Clear consensus for the name change, and nobody has objected to making it primary topic either. The disambiguation page will be moved to [[Dnipro (disambiguation)]]. — [[User:Amakuru|Amakuru]] ([[User talk:Amakuru|talk]]) 10:36, 24 July 2017 (UTC)
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[[:Dnipropetrovsk]] → {{no redirect|Dnipro}} – We originally decided to wait several months before moving this article to see whether English usage would change. The evidence in the section above clearly demonstrates that English-language media are switching to "Dnipro". The media links from the preceding section on this Talk Page are from a number of English-speaking countries, on a wide variety of topics, in a wide range of contexts. In addition, reference works published since the official name change, such as Encyclopedia Britannica, are also switching. I opposed this move when the Rada first changed the name of the city, but I now support it because the trajectory of English usage is clear. [[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 20:26, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
:If the change is accepted, there is a format issue. I suggest for the city article the name [[Dnipro]] (instead of the original [[Dnipro (city)]]) and for the rest of [[Dnipro (disambiguation)]]. I think the city rank is much higher than other entities / places named Dnipro. [[User:Ales sandro|Ales sandro]] ([[User talk:Ales sandro|talk]]) 21:35, 16 July 2017 (UTC)
::Yes, I forgot that there is a disambiguation page at [[Dnipro]]. I don't care one way or the other whether the city page is at '''Dnipro''' or '''Dnipro (city)'''. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 04:42, 17 July 2017 (UTC)
*'''Support''' as proposer. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 15:35, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
*<s>'''Oppose''': er, you cannot decide when the name of a place changes. Leave it as is until there is ''universal'' change towards your version.</s> –[[User:Sb2001|<span style="font-family:Open Sans Extrabold;font-size:10.5pt;color:#800080">Sb2001</span>]] [[User talk:Sb2001|<sup><span style="font-family:Open Sans Light;font-size:8pt;color:#008000">talk page</span></sup>]] 14:27, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
:There is no such thing as a "universal" change. That's simply an unreasonable demand. The [[WP:COMMONNAME|Wikipedia policy]] is '''''not''''' for "universal change", but for "common English usage". It's clear that common English usage has changed over the last few months as has been demonstrated above. In this case, as we see that English usage is changing and has been demonstrated above, [[WP:NAMECHANGES]] applies. Common English usage does not, and never has, meant "universal". Demanding universal change would require "Saigon" and "Stalingrad" instead of "Ho Chi Minh City" and "Volgograd". --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 15:31, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
::It needs to be evidenced over a period greater than a 'few months'. This is not enough ''evidence'' to suggest a change like this is permanent. Common English usage – if you prefer – needs reflecting. In my opinion, this change would reflect ''selected'' change, ie in a small field, where the examples provided are ones which suit ''your'' cause. Please – if you desire support on a matter such as this – provide a stronger argument than 'It's clear that common English usage has changed over the last few months'. We need something a lot more definite than this. –[[User:Sb2001|<span style="font-family:Open Sans Extrabold;font-size:10.5pt;color:#800080">Sb2001</span>]] [[User talk:Sb2001|<sup><span style="font-family:Open Sans Light;font-size:8pt;color:#008000">talk page</span></sup>]] 16:34, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
:::From your contributions list, it seems clear that you are not familiar with Ukrainian naming issues and decommunization. This might be the very first time you've ventured onto this page. The majority of the articles on cities that had their names changed in the spring of 2016 were changed automatically since they are rarely mentioned in English-language materials. Dnipro is occasionally mentioned so the informal agreement from last year was to wait several months to see if the new name began to appear in English-language materials. That's what we did. It's obvious that the new name is being used in a wide variety of sources, so the agreement has been fulfilled. I've been here on this issue from the beginning and was one of the most vocal of the "wait and see" editors. We've waited, the name is changing. It's time to move the article. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 17:32, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
::::'Is changing'. Exactly. Not 'has changed'. Bring me a better argument, then let us see. And do not remove the {{cn}} template. –[[User:Sb2001|<span style="font-family:Open Sans Extrabold;font-size:10.5pt;color:#800080">Sb2001</span>]] [[User talk:Sb2001|<sup><span style="font-family:Open Sans Light;font-size:8pt;color:#008000">talk page</span></sup>]] 17:34, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
::::Although, I do get your point. Let me think about it, then you may have my support. I will get back to you. –[[User:Sb2001|<span style="font-family:Open Sans Extrabold;font-size:10.5pt;color:#800080">Sb2001</span>]] [[User talk:Sb2001|<sup><span style="font-family:Open Sans Light;font-size:8pt;color:#008000">talk page</span></sup>]] 17:35, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
:::::*'''Support''': as per the arguments provided. It does seem an official thing. –[[User:Sb2001|<span style="font-family:Open Sans Extrabold;font-size:10.5pt;color:#800080">Sb2001</span>]] [[User talk:Sb2001|<sup><span style="font-family:Open Sans Light;font-size:8pt;color:#008000">talk page</span></sup>]] 17:42, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
::::::*{{u|Sb2001}}, since you changed to support, can you strike your oppose? Thank you. [[User:Dr.K.|<span style="font-weight:600;font-family: arial;color: steelblue;font-size: 1em;">Dr.</span>]] [[User talk:Dr.K.|<span style="font-weight:600;font-family: arial;color: steelblue; font-size: 1em">K.</span>]] 03:14, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - my argumentation [[Talk:Dnipropetrovsk#High_time_to_rename_the_article|above]]. [[User:Ales sandro|Ales sandro]] ([[User talk:Ales sandro|talk]]) 15:41, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - support renaming to Dnipro. This should've been done a year ago.--[[User:Piznajko|Piznajko]] ([[User talk:Piznajko|talk]]) 17:57, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - Per [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. Long overdue. [[User:Kges1901|Kges1901]] ([[User talk:Kges1901|talk]]) 19:58, 19 July 2017 (UTC)
*'''Support''' – Per Taivo and all the other supports. [[User:Dr.K.|<span style="font-weight:600;font-family: arial;color: steelblue;font-size: 1em;">Dr.</span>]] [[User talk:Dr.K.|<span style="font-weight:600;font-family: arial;color: steelblue; font-size: 1em">K.</span>]] 03:14, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per sources. --[[User:Panam2014|Panam2014]] ([[User talk:Panam2014|talk]]) 12:43, 20 July 2017 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - Must be ranamed to current name of the city. --[[User:Ykvach|Yuriy Kvach]] ([[User talk:Ykvach|talk]]) 20:15, 22 July 2017 (UTC)
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:''The above discussion is preserved as an archive of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on this talk page or in a [[Wikipedia:Move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section.''</div><!-- Template:RM bottom -->
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