Talk:Liverpool F.C./Archive 1 and Cyrillic script: Difference between pages

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{{Infobox WS
{{Talkheader}}
|name=Cyrillic alphabet
{{Football}}
|type=[[Alphabet]]
|time=[[early Cyrillic alphabet|Earliest variants]] exist circa [[940]]
|languages=Many [[Slavic languages]], and almost all languages in the former [[Soviet Union]] (see [[Languages using Cyrillic]])
|fam1=[[Phoenician alphabet]]
|fam2=[[Greek alphabet]]
|fam3=[[Glagolitic alphabet]]
|sisters=[[Latin alphabet]]<br>[[Coptic alphabet]]<br>[[Armenian alphabet|Armenian]]
|unicode=U+0400 to U+052F
|iso15924=Cyrl
|sample=Romanian-kirilitza-tatal-nostru.jpg
}}
 
The '''Cyrillic alphabet''' (pronounced {{IPA|/sɪˈrɪlɪk/}}, also called ''azbuka'', from the old name of the first two letters) is an [[alphabet]] used for several East and South [[Slavic languages]]—[[Belarusian language|Belarusian]], [[Bosnian language|Bosnian]], [[Bulgarian language|Bulgarian]], [[Macedonian language|Macedonian]], [[Montenegrin language|Montenegrin]], [[Russian language|Russian]], [[Rusyn language|Rusyn]], [[Serbian language|Serbian]], and [[Ukrainian language|Ukrainian]]—and [[Languages using Cyrillic|many other languages]] of the former [[Soviet Union]], [[Asia]] and [[Eastern Europe]]. It has also been used for other languages in the past. Not all letters in the Cyrillic alphabet are used in every language with which it is written.
== Famous Fans ==
With the [[accession of Bulgaria to the European Union]] on [[January 1]], [[2007]], Cyrillic also became the third official alphabet of the [[EU]].
 
== History ==
Further to the request for discussion before making changes to the section, I thought it needed its own discussion section. To start off one from me - why is John Lennon included when all authorative Beatles/Lennon biographies indicate he had no interest in football? [[User:Rushian77|Rushian77]] 18:30, 6 February 2006 (UTC)
{{main |early Cyrillic alphabet}}
{{alphabet}}
The layout of the alphabet is derived from the [[early Cyrillic alphabet]], itself a derivative of the [[Glagolitic alphabet]], a [[ninth century]] [[uncial]] [[cursive]] usually credited to two [[Byzantine]] monk brothers from [[Thessaloniki]], [[Saint Cyril]] and [[Saint Methodius]].
 
Although it is widely accepted that the Glagolitic alphabet was invented by Saints Cyril and Methodius, the origins of the early Cyrillic alphabet are still a source of much controversy. Though it is usually attributed to Saint [[Clement of Ohrid]], disciple of Saint Cyril and Saint Methodius from Bulgarian [[Macedonia (region)|Macedonia]], the alphabet is more likely to have developed at the [[Preslav Literary School]] in northeastern [[Bulgaria]], where the oldest Cyrillic inscriptions have been found, dating back to the [[940]]s. The theory is supported by the fact that the Cyrillic alphabet almost completely replaced the Glagolitic in northeastern Bulgaria as early as the end of the [[tenth century]], whereas the [[Ohrid Literary School]]—where Saint Clement worked—continued to use the Glagolitic until the [[twelfth century]]. Of course, as the disciples of St. Cyril and Methodius spread throughout the [[First Bulgarian Empire]], it is likely that these two main scholarly centres were a part of a single tradition.
:Not sure. Maybe someone who knows different may offer a suggestion? If not we'll get rid. Maybe someone was getting confused with the fact he was born in Liverpool??? [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 08:41, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 
Among the reasons for the replacement of the Glagolithic with the Cyrillic alphabet is the greater simplicity and ease of use of the latter and its closeness with the Greek alphabet, which had been well known in the First Bulgarian Empire.
Yea, according to whatever I've read as well the only sure thing is that none of the Beatles were interested in football. Its probably an assumption just coz Lennon was a Liverpudlian.
[[User:Kinda crazy|Kinda crazy]] 15:18, 7 February 2006 (UTC)
 
There are also other theories regarding the origins of the Cyrillic alphabet, namely that the alphabet was created by Saint Cyril and Saint Methodius themselves, or that it preceded the Glagolitic alphabet, representing a "transitional" stage between Greek and Glagolitic cursive, but these have been disproved. Although Cyril is almost certainly not the author of the Cyrillic alphabet, his contributions to the Glagolitic and hence to the Cyrillic alphabet are still recognised, as the latter is named after him.
Pope John Paul II loved all football teams not any in particular Im amazed that your "claiming" him as a supporter-Also John Lennon was not a Liverpool fan-He didnt like football.
 
The alphabet was disseminated along with the [[Old Church Slavonic]] [[liturgical language]], and the alphabet used for modern [[Church Slavonic language]] in [[Eastern Orthodox Church|Eastern Orthodox]] and [[Eastern Catholic]] rites still resembles early Cyrillic. However, over the following ten centuries, the Cyrillic alphabet adapted to changes in spoken language, developed regional variations to suit the features of national languages, and was subjected to academic reforms and political decrees. Today, [[Languages using Cyrillic|dozens of languages]] in Eastern Europe and Asia are written in the Cyrillic alphabet.
How Many matches did Pope John Paul II go to ?
 
As the Cyrillic alphabet spread throughout the Slavic world, it was adopted for writing local languages, such as [[Old East Slavic language|Old Ruthenian]]. Its adaptation to the characteristics of local languages led to the development of its many modern variants, below.
== Cup Final ==
 
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" class="Unicode" summary="Letters of the Early Cyrillic alphabet"
Is a whole section dedicated to the AC Milan/Liverpool Champions League Final really necessary, considering it is only one of five European Cup finals Liverpool have won in the past?
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | The Early Cyrillic alphabet (and the numerical meanings of the letters)
|-
| А || Б || В || Г || Д || Є || Ж || Ѕ || З || И || І
|- style="font-size:x-small;"
| 1 || || 2 || 3 || 4 || 5 || || 6 || 7 || 8 || 10
|-
| К || Л || М || Н || О || П || {{Unicode|Ҁ}} || Р || С || Т || {{Unicode|Ѹ}}
|- style="font-size:x-small;"
| 20 || 30 || 40 || 50 || 70 || 80 || || 100 || 200 || 300 || 400
|-
| Ф || Х || Ѡ || Ц || Ч || Ш || Щ || Ъ || Ы || Ь || {{Unicode|Ѣ}}
|- style="font-size:x-small;"
| 500 || 600 || 800 || 900 || 90 || || || || || ||
|-
| Ю || ІА || {{Unicode|Ѧ}} || {{Unicode|Ѩ}} || {{Unicode|Ѫ}} || {{Unicode|Ѭ}} || {{Unicode|Ѯ}} || {{Unicode|Ѱ}} || {{Unicode|Ѳ}} || {{Unicode|Ѵ}} || {{Unicode|Ѥ}}
|- style="font-size:x-small;"
| || || || || || || 60 || 700 || 9 || ||
|}
 
Capital and lowercase letters were not distinguished in old manuscripts.
:Well perhaps it could be added to a new page, the [[2005 Champions League Final]]? Obviously, as wikipedia did not exist during any of the previous wins, this one is going to be written about more. -[[User:Sars|sars]] 19:08, Jun 14, 2005 (UTC)
 
[[Image:Meletius Smotrisky Cyrillic Alphabet.PNG|thumb|A page from the ''Church Slavonic Grammar'' of [[Meletius Smotrytsky]] (1619).]]
::I was thinking about moving the section to a new page entirely along with further details regarding 'Pool's other European Cup wins. This article is already too long by Wikipedia standards anyway.
::- Have gone and made a new article like I said but it needs serious help with the details of the other European Cup wins. I didn't get to experience them firsthand so my lack of knowledge regarding the finals prior to 1985 is somewhat deplorable. :P - [[User:shikinluv|shikinluv]]
 
Yeri (Ы) was originally a [[ligature (typography)|ligature]] of Yer and I. [[Iotation]] was indicated by ligatures formed with the letter I: [[ІА]] (ancestor of modern ya, я), {{Unicode|Ѥ}}, Ю (ligature of I and ОУ), {{Unicode|Ѩ}}, {{Unicode|Ѭ}}. Many letters had variant forms and commonly-used ligatures, for example И=І=Ї, {{Unicode|Ѡ}}={{Unicode|Ѻ}}, ОУ={{Unicode|Ѹ}}, {{Unicode|ѠТ}}={{Unicode|Ѿ}}.
It is especially sweet, because the trophy that Liverpool FC won is the real thing. We get to keep it. The rest didn't. Liverpool lives forever! --[[User:Chapter1|chapter1]] 08:38, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 
The letters also had numeric values, based not on the native Cyrillic alphabetical order, but inherited from the letters' [[Greek numerals|Greek ancestors]]. See [[Cyrillic numerals]].
== Inaccuracies in Joe Fagan/Kenny Dalglish Eras ==
 
The early Cyrillic alphabet is difficult to represent on computers. Many of the letterforms differed from modern Cyrillic, varied a great deal in [[manuscript]]s, and changed over time. Few fonts include adequate [[glyph]]s to reproduce the alphabet. The current [[Unicode]] standard does not represent some significant letterform variations, and omits some characters, such as Cyrillic dotless I, iotified [[Yat]], abbreviated [[Yer]] ("Yerok"), and many [[Ligature (typography)|ligatures]].
Just noticed a few inaccuracies in the text but didn't want to change them as i'm new to all of this:
 
See also: [[Glagolitic alphabet]].
*Alan Hansen wasn't made captain until Kenny Dalglish took charge. Graeme Souness was captain for 1983/84, and i'm pretty sure Phil Neal was captain the following season
*The text implies Ray Houghton was at the club in the 1985/86 season. He didn't join the club until 1987
*John Barnes and John Aldridge are mentioned as replacing Ian Rush, but what about including Peter Beardsley? [[User:David f1976|David f1976]] 01:14, 22 July 2005 (UTC)
 
== Letter-forms and typography ==
Actually the part about John Aldridge replacing Ian Rush was sort of true, not too sure about John Barnes replacing Rushie though. Of course, we were all glad that Rushie couldn't stand his stint in Italy at Juventus, and swiftly came back the following season, an Anfield legend always. --[[User:Chapter1|chapter1]] 08:45, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
The development of Cyrillic [[typography]] passed directly from the [[medieval]] stage to the late [[Baroque]], without a [[Renaissance]] phase as in [[Western Europe]]. Late Medieval Cyrillic letters (still found on many [[icon]] inscriptions even today) show a marked tendency to be very tall and narrow; strokes are often shared between adjacent letters.
 
[[Peter I of Russia|Peter the Great]], tsar of Russia, mandated the use of westernized letter forms in the early eighteenth century; over time, these were largely adopted in the other languages that use the alphabet. Thus, unlike modern Greek fonts that retained their own set of design principles (such as the placement of [[serif]]s, the shapes of stroke ends, and stroke-thickness rules), modern Cyrillic fonts are much the same as modern Latin fonts of the same font family. The development of some Cyrillic computer typefaces from Latin ones has also contributed to the visual Latinization of Cyrillic type.
Without wishing to be pedantic, the article states we (Liverpool) lost the 1989 title on "goal difference". I'm pretty sure this is slightly inaccurate. Arsenal won on the night 2-0, equalling both our points total AND our goal difference. The way they were crowned champions was even more unique in that the two teams could only be separated therefore, by virtue of the fact that they had scored six more goals than Liverpool. With attacking play being rewarded in such scenarios, the fact they'd also conceded six more goals than Liverpool was therefore inconsequential. :( [[User:Dalglynch-72|Dalglynch-72]] 04:16, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 
Cyrillic [[Capital letters|uppercase]] and [[minuscule|lowercase]] letter-forms are not as differentiated as in Latin typography. Upright Cyrillic lowercase letters are essentially [[small caps|small capitals]] (with the exception of a few forms such as "а" and "е" which adopted Western lowercase shapes), although a good-quality Cyrillic typeface will still include separate small caps glyphs.<ref>Bringhurst (2002) writes "in Cyrillic, the difference between normal lower case and small caps is more subtle than it is in the Latin or Greek alphabets,..." (p 32) and "in most Cyrillic faces, the lower case is close in color and shape to Latin small caps" (p 107).</ref>
== Souness\Houllier Era Inaccuracies ==
 
[[Image:Cyrillic upright-cursive.png|frame|right|Comparison of some upright and cursive letters (Ge, De, I, I kratko(ye), Em, Te and Tse. Top row is set in Georgia font, bottom in Kisty CY)]]
I have noticed under the Graeme Souness years it is mentioned that he was sacked. He in fact resigned. To this day Liverpool FC have not sacked a manager.[[User:JamieStapleton|JamieStapleton]] 13:32, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 
In the absence of [[Roman type|Roman]] and [[Italic type|Italic]] traditions, Cyrillic type fonts are properly classified as ''upright'' (Russian: ''pryamoy shrift'') and ''[[cursive]]'' (''kursivniy''). Cursive or hand-written shapes of many letters, especially the lowercase letters, are entirely different from the upright shapes. As in Latin typography, a sans-serif face may have a mechanically-sloped oblique font (''naklonniy'').
:I have edited references to both Souness and Houllier being 'sacked'. Souness resigned and Houllier and Liverpool parted by mutual consent. [[User:JamieStapleton|JamieStapleton]] 14:30, 11 October 2005 (UTC)
 
In Serbian and Macedonian, some cursive letters are different from those used in other languages. These cursive letter shapes are often used in upright fonts as well, especially for road signs, inscriptions, posters and the like, less so in newspapers or books. ''External link:'' [http://jankojs.tripod.com/SerbianCyr.htm Serbian Cyrillic Letters BE, GHE, DE, PE, TE.]
Yeah I agree. Well, actually you know the story: when it means a person leaves on mutual consent, you'll really have to look on the other side of the story. --[[User:Chapter1|chapter1]] 08:46, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 
The following table shows the differences between the upright and cursive Cyrillic letters as used in Russian. Cursive glyphs that are bound to confuse beginners (either because of an entirely different look, or because of being a [[false friend]] with an entirely different Latin character) are highlighted.
== Stars ==
 
{| border=0 cellpadding=4 cellspacing=1 style="padding:0 .5em .2em; border:1px solid #999; margin:1em 0;"
Do we really think Harry Kewell can be regarded as a star? He's limped off in two of our important matches, and been out for injury for most games. He was only a really notable player at the start of his debut season. - [[User:Sars|sars]] 15:23, August 7, 2005 (UTC)
|+ align=bottom style="text-align:left; font-size:smaller; " | If your browser does not support Cyrillic text, see [[commons:Image:Cyrillic-italics-nonitalics.png|this graphical version]].
|- style="font-family:FreeSerif,Georgia,'Times New Roman','Nimbus Roman No9 L','Century Schoolbook L','Trebuchet MS','URW Bookman L','URW Chancery L','URW Palladio L',Arial,Teams,serif; font-size:large; text-align:center; "
| а || б || в || г || д || е || ё || ж || з || и || й || к || л || м || н || о || п || р || с || т || у || ф || х || ц || ч || ш || щ || ъ || ы || ь || э || ю || я
|- style="font-family:FreeSerif,Georgia,'Times New Roman','Nimbus Roman No9 L','Century Schoolbook L','Trebuchet MS','URW Bookman L','URW Chancery L','URW Palladio L',Arial,Teams,serif; font-size:large; text-align:center; "
| ''а'' || ''б'' || ''в'' ||{{highlight1}}| ''г'' ||{{highlight1}}| ''д'' || ''е'' || ''ё'' || ''ж'' || ''з'' ||{{highlight1}}| ''и'' ||{{highlight1}}| ''й'' || ''к'' || ''л'' || ''м'' || ''н'' || ''о'' ||{{highlight1}}| ''п'' || ''р'' || ''с'' ||{{highlight1}}| ''т'' || ''у'' || ''ф'' || ''х'' || ''ц'' || ''ч'' || ''ш'' || ''щ'' || ''ъ'' || ''ы'' || ''ь'' || ''э'' || ''ю'' || ''я''
|}
 
== As used in various languages ==
I would rate others above him. Most Liverpool fans, including myself, have found him a disappointment more than a star. [[User:Soul Embrace|Soul Embrace]] 15:50, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 
[[Image:Cyrillic alphabet distribution map.png|thumb|right|350px|Distribution of the Cyrillic alphabet worldwide. The dark green shows the countries that use Cyrillic as the one main script; the lighter green those that use Cyrillic alongside another official script.]]
True he has been disappointing, and I would rate others above him too. but if we have Nick Barmby we must keep Kewell (also Jason McAteer? - sure he was a fixture in the team but I'm not sure many would call him a star). In fact I could argue that we should get rid of Barmby and keep Kewell - he was (at the least) a star when he signed for us - like Anelka - who only scored 4 goals in 20 for us if I remember right. I say we just leave him there. Friedel is there but did nothing for us. From the make up of the list, it seems to me that if they were a star, regardless of how they played for us, they should be there. [[User:Cursive|Cursive]] 16:35, 7 August 2005 (UTC)
 
Sounds are indicated using [[International Phonetic Alphabet|IPA]].
That seems a fair compromise. I agree. [[User:Soul Embrace|Soul Embrace]] 18:55, 9 August 2005 (UTC)
These are only approximate indicators.
While these languages by and large have [[Phonemic orthography|phonemic orthographies]], there are occasional exceptions—for example, Russian его (meaning ''him/his''), which is pronounced {{IPA|[jɪˈvo]}} instead of {{IPA|[jɪˈgo]}}.
 
Note that spellings of names may vary, especially Y/J/I, but also GH/G/H and ZH/J.
He has improved. Albeit the reaction save from Shay Given, Kewell should've put his name onto the scoresheet against Newcastle last night. He tormented the Newcastle defence on the left, and totally thrived on the left flank. If not for his second cross which Crouch got his head to, Liverpool would not be 2-0 up. Great work Kewell! --[[User:Chapter1|chapter1]] 08:48, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 
See also a more complete list of '''[[languages using Cyrillic]]'''.
== 70s logo ==
Do we really need this in the article? It doesn't seem to fit (it really looks out of place) and is pretty poor quality too. Whoever added it didn't even give it a caption, I don't think it fits, but will defer to consensus. [[User:Cursive|Cursive]] 23:23, 17 August 2005 (UTC)
 
=== Common letters ===
:I agree with you that it looks out of place where it currently is, is poor quality, and has no caption, however I'd say that a place for a better quality version could probably be found in the article. I'm not sure where though.
 
The following table lists Cyrillic letters which are used in most national versions of the Cyrillic alphabet. Exceptions and additions for particular languages are noted below.
:Was it just the club logo in the 1970s only, or was it the logo before then? [[User:KeithD|KeithD]] [[User_talk:KeithD|(talk)]] 08:49, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
 
{| border=0 style="white-space:nowrap; text-align:center;" summary="Twenty-nine Cyrillic letters common to most national versions of the alphabet, showing each one's italic form, most common name and represented sound"
::I have done some research on this and, from what I have found, the 'old' logo appears to have been in existence long before the 70's. There is a disappointing lack of clear pictures anywhere and I haven't found anything clearer. I have put out a couple of feelers and will post back here when I hear something. (Picked up some images of some classic programmes but I don't think they are free of copyright - fascinating stuff!) [[User:Soul Embrace|Soul Embrace]] 18:24, 18 August 2005 (UTC)
|+ Common Cyrillic letters
|-
! width=20% | Upright
! width=20% | Cursive
! width=40% | Name
! width=20% | [[International Phonetic Alphabet|Sound]]
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | А а
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''А а''
| A
| {{IPA|/a/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Б б
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Б б''
| Be
| {{IPA|/b/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | В в
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''В в''
| Ve
| {{IPA|/v/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Г г
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Г г''
| Ge
| {{IPA|/g/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Д д
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Д д''
| De
| {{IPA|/d/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Е е
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Е е''
| Ye
| {{IPA|/je/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Ж ж
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Ж ж''
| Zhe
| {{IPA|/ʒ/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | З з
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''З з''
| Ze
| {{IPA|/z/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | И и
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''И и''
| I
| {{IPA|/i/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Й й
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Й й''
| Short I
| {{IPA|/j/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | К к
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''К к''
| Ka
| {{IPA|/k/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Л л
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Л л''
| El
| {{IPA|/l/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | М м
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''М м''
| Em
| {{IPA|/m/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Н н
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Н н''
| En
| {{IPA|/n/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | О о
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''О о''
| O
| {{IPA|/o/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | П п
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''П п''
| Pe
| {{IPA|/p/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Р р
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Р р''
| Er
| {{IPA|/r/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | С с
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''С с''
| Es
| {{IPA|/s/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Т т
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Т т''
| Te
| {{IPA|/t/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | У у
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''У у''
| U
| {{IPA|/u/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Ф ф
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Ф ф''
| Ef
| {{IPA|/f/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Х х
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Х х''
| Kha
| {{IPA|/x/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Ц ц
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Ц ц''
| Tse
| {{IPA|/ʦ/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Ч ч
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Ч ч''
| Che
| {{IPA|/ʧ/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Ш ш
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Ш ш''
| Sha
| {{IPA|/ʃ/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Щ щ
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Щ щ''
| Shcha
| {{IPA|/ʃʧ/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Ь ь
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Ь ь''
| Soft Sign
| {{IPA|/ʲ/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Ю ю
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Ю ю''
| Yu
| {{IPA|/ju/}}
|-
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | Я я
| style="font-family:serif; font-size:larger;" | ''Я я''
| Ya
| {{IPA|/ja/}}
|}
 
The [[soft sign]] ''ь'' is not a letter representing a sound, but modifies the sound of the preceding letter, indicating [[palatalisation]] ('softening'). In some languages, a [[hard sign]] ''ъ'' or apostrophe ''’'' negates palatalisation.
:::I don't think it was the club logo in the 70s. This is more the standard logo beloved of all fans of the era http://www.liverweb.org.uk/stdbadg.jpg
 
=== Slavic languages ===
::::My research drew a blank on any dates or images. Is the image posted above copyright free? [[User:Soul Embrace|Soul Embrace]] 18:23, 22 August 2005 (UTC)
==== Belarusian ====
 
{{Main|Belarusian alphabet}}
:::::All club images prior to the current badge are copyright free
 
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Thirty-two letters of the Belarusian alphabet, capital and small"
The 70s logo showed a Liverbird with the words L.F.C. right below.
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | The Belarusian alphabet
It signified the soaring high of the legendary Liverbird.
|-
The 80s logo showed the Liverbird enclosed in a badge, with the words Liverpool Football Club right below.
| А а || Б б || В в || Г г || Д д || Е е || Ё ё || Ж ж || З з || І і || Й й
The logo switched to a fuller version in 1990, after the Hillsbrough disaster, incorporating the Hillsbrough flames and the Shankly Gates, with the words "You'll Never Walk Alone". Since then, the Liverpool logo has not changed, only decreased in size, but in full colour.
|-
| К к || Л л || М м || Н н || О о || П п || Р р || С с || Т т || У у || Ў ў
|-
| Ф ф || Х х || Ц ц || Ч ч || Ш ш || Ы ы || Ь ь || Э э || Ю ю || Я я
|}
 
The Belarusian alphabet displays the following features:
The present logo shows the 5 European Cups stars right above the Liverpool badge. Wonder if Reebok are going to incorporate it into future designs (hopefully, we'd have won our 6th European Cup!) --[[User:Chapter1|chapter1]] 08:49, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
* Г represents a [[voiced glottal fricative]] {{IPA|/ɦ/}}.
* Yo (Ё ё) {{IPA|/jo/}}
* I resembles the Latin letter I (І, і).
* [[U short]] (Ў, ў) falls between U and Ef. It looks like U (У) with a [[breve]] and represents {{IPA|/w/}}, or like the ''u'' part of the [[diphthong]] in ''loud.''
* A combination of sh and ch (ШЧ, шч) is used where those familiar only with Russian and or Ukrainian would expect Shcha (Щ, щ).
* Yery (Ы ы) {{IPA|/ɨ/}}
* E (Э э) {{IPA|/ɛ/}}
* An apostrophe is used to indicate de-palatalization of the preceding consonant.
* The letter combinations Дж дж and Дз дз appear after Д д in the Belarusian alphabet in some publications. These [[digraph (orthography)|digraphs]] each represent a single sound: Дж {{IPA|/ʤ/}}, Дз {{IPA|/ʣ/}}.
 
==Early history==Bosnian====
{{further|[[Bosnian language]]}}
 
Bosnian language uses both Latin and Cyrillic alphabets<ref>Senahid Halilović, Pravopis bosanskog jezika</ref> but Cyrillic is seldom if ever used in today's practice. There was also [[Bosnian Cyrillic script]] (''Bosančica'') used in the Middle ages, along with other scripts. The modern Cyrillic is the same as [[#Serbian|Serbian]].
I added a whole section on the club's history from 1892-1950 yesterday, it took me 4 hours to write and it has been removed today. I am not impressed.
 
====Bulgarian====
I also amended the club's record defeat. Official sources always quote the 9-1 defeat at Birmingham City in Division 2 on 11th December 1954. Also deleted. Can anybody explain? (Unsigned comment by [[User:212.32.106.70]])
 
{{Further|[[Bulgarian language#Alphabet|Bulgarian language]]}}
:Your excellent contribution to the article hasn't been deleted. It's still there. Perhaps your browser has cached the old page and you're not seeing the most recent version? [[User:KeithD|KeithD]] [[User_talk:KeithD|(talk)]] 09:23, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
 
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Twenty-nine letters of the Bulgarian alphabet, capital and small"
Whoops! You are right - exits red-faced.
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | The Bulgarian alphabet
|-
| А а || Б б || В в || Г г || Д д || Е е || Ж ж || З з || И и || Й й || К к
|-
| Л л || М м || Н н || О о || П п || Р р || С с || Т т || У у || Ф ф || Х х
|-
| Ц ц || Ч ч || Ш ш || Щ щ || Ъ ъ || Ь ь || Ю ю || Я я ||
|}
 
The [[Bulgarian language|Bulgarian]] alphabet features:
Suitably encouraged I will continue from 1950-59. Cheers. BTW how does one create a user name? (Unsigned comment by [[User:212.32.106.70]])
* (Е) represents {{IPA|/ɛ/}} and is called "е" {{IPA|[e]}}.
* (Щ) represents {{IPA|/ʃt/}} and is called "щъ" {{IPA|[ʃtə]}}.
* (Ъ) represents the [[schwa]] {{IPA|/ə/}}, and is called "ер голям" {{IPA|[ˈer goˈlʲam]}} ('big er').
Тhe Bulgarian names for the consonants are {{IPA|[bə]}}, {{IPA|[kə]}}, {{IPA|[lə]}} etc. with stressed [[schwa]] instead of {{IPA|[be]}}, {{IPA|[ka]}}, {{IPA|[el]}} etc.
 
====Macedonian====
:I've answered on your talk page, along with the traditional welcome message. In short though, the register link should be visible in the top right corner of every page here. [[User:KeithD|KeithD]] [[User_talk:KeithD|(talk)]] 12:09, 15 September 2005 (UTC)
{{main|Macedonian alphabet}}
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Twenty-nine letters of the Macedonian alphabet, capital and small"
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | The Macedonian alphabet
|-
| А а || Б б || В в || Г г || Д д || Ѓ ѓ || Е е || Ж ж || З з || Ѕ ѕ || И и
|-
| Ј ј || К к || Л л || Љ љ || М м || Н н || Њ њ || О о || П п || Р р || С с
|-
| Т т || Ќ ќ || У у || Ф ф || Х х || Ц ц || Ч ч || Џ џ || Ш ш
|}
 
[[Macedonian language|Macedonian]] alphabet differs from '''Serbian'' in the following ways:
==European Cup 2004/5==
* Between Ze and I is the letter Dze (Ѕ, ѕ), which looks like the Latin letter S and represents {{IPA|/ʣ/}}.
* Djerv is replaced by Gje (Ѓ, ѓ), which looks like Ghe with an acute accent (´) and represents {{IPA|/ɟ/}},
* Tjerv is replaced by Kja (Ќ, ќ), which looks like Ka with an acute accent (´), represents {{IPA|/c/}},
 
==== Russian ====
One third of the article is on the 2004/5 season, detailing Liverpool's entire CL campaign, and the 2000/1 treble-winning season is worth 1 sentence. Some balace eh? [[User:Mandel|Mandel]] 19:05, 1 November 2005 (UTC)
 
{{Main|Russian alphabet}}
==History of Liverpool F.C.==
 
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Thirty-three letters of the Russian alphabet, capital and small"
I have gone ahead and created an article at '''History of Liverpool Football Club'''. I have just yanked the entire existing history section from this article and put it there (like they have at [[History of Arsenal F.C.]]). The Arsenal F.C. article is a featured article, and I think that this article has the potential to be as well (but only if we get rid of many of the details that form the main article). I will stick a link to the history article in the apppropriate section of the LFC article.[[User:Oktom|Oktom]] 13:53, 7 November 2005 (UTC)
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | The Russian alphabet
|-
| [[A (Cyrillic)|А а]] || [[Be (Cyrillic)|Б б]] || [[Ve (Cyrillic)|В в]] || [[Ge (Cyrillic)|Г г]] || [[De (Cyrillic)|Д д]] || [[Ye (Cyrillic)|Е е]] || [[Yo (Cyrillic)|Ё ё]] || [[Zhe (Cyrillic)|Ж ж]] || [[Ze (Cyrillic)|З з]] || [[I (Cyrillic)|И и]] || [[Short I|Й й]]
|-
| [[Ka (Cyrillic)|К к]] || [[El (Cyrillic)|Л л]] || [[Em (Cyrillic)|М м]] || [[En (Cyrillic)|Н н]] || [[O (Cyrillic)|О о]] || [[Pe (Cyrillic)|П п]] || [[Er (Cyrillic)|Р р]] || [[Es (Cyrillic)|С с]] || [[Te (Cyrillic)|Т т]] || [[U (Cyrillic)|У у]] || [[Ef (Cyrillic)|Ф ф]]
|-
| [[Kha (Cyrillic)|Х х]] || [[Tse (Cyrillic)|Ц ц]] || [[Che (Cyrillic)|Ч ч]] || [[Sha|Ш ш]] || [[Shta|Щ щ]] || [[Yer|Ъ ъ]] || [[Yery|Ы ы]] || [[Soft sign|Ь ь]] || [[E (Cyrillic)|Э э]] || [[Yu (Cyrillic)|Ю ю]] || [[Ya (Cyrillic)|Я я]]
|}
 
* Yo (Ё ё) {{IPA|/jo/}}
I can't find the new article?? [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 11:28, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
* The Hard Sign¹ (Ъ ъ) indicates no palatalisation²
* {{Unicode|Ɨ}} (Ы ы) {{IPA|/ɨ/}}
* E (Э э) {{IPA|/ɛ/}}
 
Notes:
I lied, i have added the link to the history of liverpool f.c. article to the 'see also' section [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 11:37, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
# In the pre-reform [[Russian language|Russian]] orthography, in [[Old Russian language|Old Russian]] and in [[Old Church Slavonic]] the letter is called [[yer]]. Historically, the "hard sign" takes the place of a now-absent [[vowel]], still preserved in [[Bulgarian language|Bulgarian]]. See the notes for Bulgarian.
# When an iotated vowel (vowel whose sound begins with {{IPA|/j/}}) follows a consonant, the consonant will become palatalised (the {{IPA|/j/}} sound will mix with the consonant), and the vowel’s initial {{IPA|/j/}} sound will not be heard independently. The Hard Sign will indicate that this does not happen, and the {{IPA|/j/}} sound will appear only in front of the vowel. The Soft Sign will indicate that the consonant should be palatised, but the vowel’s {{IPA|/j/}} sound will not mix with the [[palatalization]] of the consonant. The Soft Sign will also indicate that a consonant before another consonant or at the end of a word is palatised. Examples: та ({{IPA|ta}}); тя ({{IPA|tʲa}}); тья ({{IPA|tʲja}}); тъя ({{IPA|tja}}); т ({{IPA|t}}); ть ({{IPA|tʲ}}).
 
Historical letters: before [[1918]], there were four extra letters in use: {{Unicode|Іі}} (replaced by Ии), {{Unicode|Ѳѳ}} (Фита "[[Fita]]", replaced by Фф), {{Unicode |Ѣѣ}} (Ять "[[Yat]]", replaced by Ее), and {{Unicode |Ѵѵ}} (ижица "[[Izhitsa]]", replaced by Ии); these were eliminated by [[reforms of Russian orthography]].
The introduction describes how the club was formed, why does this need to be repeated in a 'history' section that is supposed to have been moved? The comments in the history section are already covered in the 'history of liverpool f.c.' article so I think this history section should be deleted [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 11:39, 10 November 2005 (UTC)
 
==== Rusyn ====
:I disagree. The history section as it stands ''is'' different to the previous version. As it stands, it is supposed to be a summary of the larger article, and so I guess some duplication is okay. I think that a history section is a valuable, factual contribution to an article such as this. And a brief mention of the club's founder belongs in such a section.[[User:Oktom|Oktom]] 17:23, 14 November 2005 (UTC)
{{further|[[Rusyn language#Alphabet|Rusyn language]]}}
 
The [[Rusyn language]] is spoken by the [[Lemko Rusyns]] in [[Transcarpathian Ukraine]], Slovakia, Poland, and the [[Pannonian Rusyns]] in Serbia.
The best history is to get it from the official website at [http://www.liverpoolfc.tv www.liverpoolfc.tv] We as Reds will stand together forever, and all Liverpool fans are together as one. --[[User:Chapter1|chapter1]] 08:51, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Letters of the Rusyn alphabet, capital and small"
== History section and separate article ==
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | The Rusyn alphabet
|-
| А а || Б б || В в || Г г || Ґ ґ || Д д || Е е || Є є || Ё ё || Ж ж || З з
|-
| И и || I і* || Ы ы* || Ї ї || Й й || К к || Л л || М м || Н н || О о || П п
|-
| Р р || С с || Т т || У у || Ф ф || Х х || Ц ц || Ч ч || Ш ш || Щ щ || {{Unicode|Ѣ ѣ}}
|-
| Ю ю || Я я || Ь ь || Ъ ъ*
|}
 
<nowiki>*</nowiki>Letters not present in Vojvodinian Rusyn alphabet.
It might be an idea to put some comments <nowiki><!-- like this --></nowiki> in the history section advising people to add history stuff to [[History of Liverpool F.C.]] instead of this article. We had the same problem when the history was split out for Manchester United, and ended up with two history articles of about the same length, which was a pain in the arse to fix. I think the Arsenal article had the same problem as well before the comments were added. [[Image:Yemen flag large.png|24px]] [[User:Cantthinkofagoodname|CTOAGN]] ([[User talk:Cantthinkofagoodname|talk]]) 01:50, 25 November 2005 (UTC)
 
====Serbian====
Huh? The Liverpool history was done by a neutral?
{{further|[[Serbian Cyrillic alphabet]] and [[Serbian language#Alphabets|Serbian language]]}}
How could a neutral know more about the Champions of Europe, when compared to a die-hard Liverpool supporter doing it? --[[User:Chapter1|chapter1]] 08:53, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Thirty letters of the Serbian alphabet, capital and small"
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | The Serbian alphabet
|-
| А а || Б б || В в || Г г || Д д || Ђ ђ || Е е || Ж ж || З з || И и || Ј ј
|-
| К к || Л л || Љ љ || М м || Н н || Њ њ || О о || П п || Р р || С с || Т т
|-
| Ћ ћ || У у || Ф ф || Х х || Ц ц || Ч ч || Џ џ || Ш ш
|}
 
The Serbian alphabet shows the following features:
#I've never been accused of being 'neutral' with regard to Liverpool before.
* E represents {{IPA|/ɛ/}}.
#I didn't and haven't claimed to write the Liverpool history.
* Between Д and E is the letter [[Dje]] (Ђ, ђ), which represents {{IPA|/ʥ/}}, and looks like [[Tshe]], except that the loop of the h curls farther and dips downwards.
#That depends on which "die-hard Liverpool supporter" you're talking about (wry smile).
* Between И and К is the letter [[Je (Cyrillic)|Je]] (Ј, ј), represents {{IPA|/j/}}, which looks like the Latin letter J.
:[[Image:Yemen flag large.png|24px]] [[User:Cantthinkofagoodname|CTOAGN]] ([[User talk:Cantthinkofagoodname|talk]]) 10:32, 15 January 2006 (UTC)
* Between Л and М is the letter [[Lje]] (Љ, љ), representing {{IPA|/ʎ/}}, which looks like a ligature of Л and the Soft Sign .
* Between Н and О is the letter [[Nje]] (Њ, њ), representing {{IPA|/ɲ/}}, which looks like a ligature of Н and the Soft Sign.
* Between Т and У is the letter [[Tshe]] (Ћ, ћ), representing {{IPA|/ʨ/}} and looks like a lowercase Latin letter h with a bar. On the uppercase letter, the bar appears at the top; on the lowercase letter, the bar crosses the top at half of the vertical line.
* Between Ч and Ш is the letter [[Dzhe]] (Џ, џ), representing {{IPA|/ʤ/}}, which looks like Ts but with the downturn moved from the right side of the bottom bar to the middle of the bottom bar.
* Ш is the last letter.
 
==== Ukrainian ====
== Why is Liverpool history so little compared w e rest? ==
 
{{Main|Ukrainian alphabet}}
I don't understand, Liverpool has an even more historical history, so why is the section being minimised? True Redders will not truly understand the significant events of the issues, and will have wrong conclusions on the history of the club. --[[User:Chapter1|chapter1]] 08:54, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
{{Ukrainian alphabet}}
 
The [[Ukrainian language|Ukrainian]] alphabet displays the following features:
The history section has been moved to its own page - History of Liverpool FC. The Article was becoming too big and needed to be cleaned up. Hope this has helped [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 13:04, 28 November 2005 (UTC)
* [[He (Cyrillic)|He]] (Г, г) represents a [[voiced glottal fricative]], ({{IPA |/ɦ/}}).
* [[Ghe|Ge]] (Ґ, ґ) appears after He, represents {{IPA|/g/}}. It looks like He with an "upturn" pointing up from the right side of the top bar. (This letter was not officially used in the [[Soviet Union]] after 1933, so it is missing from older Cyrillic fonts.)
* [[Ye (Cyrillic)|E]] (Е, е) represents {{IPA|/e/}} .
* [[Ukrainian Ye|Ye]] (Є, є) appears after E, represents {{IPA|/je/}}.
* [[I (Cyrillic)|Y]] (И, и) represents {{IPA|/ɪ/}}.
* [[Ukrainian I|I]] (І, і) appears after Y, represents {{IPA|/i/}}.
* [[Yi (Cyrillic)|Yi]] (Ї, ї) appears after I, represents {{IPA|/ji/}}.
* [[Yot]] (Й, й) represents {{IPA|/j/}}.
* [[Shcha]] (Щ, щ) represents {{IPA|ʃʧ}}.
* An [[Apostrophe (mark)|apostrophe]] (’) is used to mark de-palatalization of the preceding consonant.
 
===Non-Slavic languages===
Thanks Jamie! That was wonderful work!
Ahhhh! Lovely Reds! --[[User:Chapter1|chapter1]] 21:32, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 
These alphabets are generally modelled after Russian, but often bear striking differences, particularly when adapted for [[Caucasian languages]]. The first few of them were generated by Orthodox missionaries for the Finnic and Turkic peoples of [[Idel-Ural]] ([[Mari]], [[Udmurt people|Udmurt]], [[Mordvin people|Mordva]], [[Chuvash people|Chuvash]], [[Tatars|Kerashen Tatars]]) in [[1870s]]. Later such alphabets were created for some of the [[Siberia]]n and [[Caucasus]] peoples who had recently converted to Christianity. In the [[1930s]], some of those alphabets were switched to the [[Uniform Turkic Alphabet]]. All of the peoples of the former Soviet Union who had been using an Arabic or other Asian script ([[Mongolian script]], etc.) also adopted Cyrillic alphabets, and during the [[Great Purge]] in late 1930s, all of the Roman-based alphabets of the peoples of the Soviet Union were switched over to Cyrillic as well (the Baltic Republics were annexed later, and weren't affected by this change). The Abkhazian alphabet was switched to [[Georgian alphabet|Georgian script]], but after the death of [[Stalin]], Abkhaz also adopted Cyrillic. The last language to adopt Cyrillic was the [[Gagauz language]], which had used [[Greek script]] before.
== Reserve Squad ==
 
In [[Uzbekistan]], [[Azerbaijan]] and [[Turkmenistan]], the use of Cyrillic to represent local languages has often been a politically controversial issue since the collapse of the [[Soviet Union]], as it evokes the era of Soviet rule (see [[Russification]]). Some of Russia's languages have also tried to drop Cyrillic, but the move was halted under Russian law (see [[Tatar alphabet]]). A number of languages have switched from Cyrillic to other orthographies—either Roman-based or returning to a former script.
It's strange that the reserve squad section is duplicated and above the first team. I'm thinking of:
 
Unlike the Roman alphabet, which is usually adapted to different languages by using additions to existing letters such as accents, umlauts, tildes and cedillas, the Cyrillic alphabet is usually adapted by the creation of entirely new letter shapes. In some alphabets invented in the nineteenth century, such as [[Mari language|Mari]], [[Udmurt language|Udmurt]] and [[Chuvash language|Chuvash]], [[umlaut (diacritic)|umlaut]]s and [[breve]]s also were used.
a) deleting the first list of reserve players<br>
b) copying the data about the Racecourse Ground to the lower section<br>
c) removing any players from it that are in the first team table<br>
d) Making all the players names links, even though most won't be on there.<br>
 
[[Bulgarian Jews|Bulgarian]] and [[Bosnian Jews|Bosnian]] [[Sephardim]] lacking [[Hebrew alphabet|Hebrew]] typefaces occasionally printed [[Judeo-Spanish]] in Cyrillic.<ref> Šmid (2002), pp 113-124: "Es interesante el hecho que en Bulgaria se imprimieron unas pocas publicaciones en alfabeto cirílico búlgaro y en Grecia en alfabeto griego.... Nezirović (1992: 128) anota que también en Bosnia se ha encontrado un documento en que la lengua sefardí está escrita en alfabeto cirilico." Translation: "It is an interesting fact that in Bulgaria a few [Sephardic] publications are printed in the Bulgarian Cyrillic alphabet and in Greece in the Greek alphabet.... Nezirović (1992:128) writes that in Bosnia a document has also been found in which the Sephardic language is written in the Cyrillic alphabet."</ref>
Any thoughts?
 
==== Iranian languages ====
Well there is some errors on that reserve list anyway. Paul Barratt (correct sp) isn't a reserve, he plays with the Under 18s, I can verify this because I know him personally. One '''correct''' list of reserve players is desirable, and I agree with the rest of your proposals. I just felt the need to highlight factual accuracy. --[[User:Thehumph|Thehumph]] 22:37, 12 December 2005 (UTC)
===== Ossetian =====
{{further|[[Ossetic language#Writing system|Ossetic language]]}}
 
The [[Ossetic language]] has officially used the Cyrillic alphabet since 1937.
 
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Forty-three letters of the Ossetian Cyrillic alphabet, capital and lowercase"
== I liked the old format for History Better ==
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | Ossetian Cyrillic alphabet
|-
| А а || {{Unicode|Ӕ ӕ}} || Б б || В в || Г г || Гъ гъ || Д д || Дж дж
|-
| Дз дз || Е е || Ё ё || Ж ж || З з || И и || Й й || К к
|-
| Къ къ ||Л л || М м || Н н || О о || П п || Пъ пъ || Р р
|-
| С с || Т т || Тъ тъ || У у || Ф ф || Х х || Хъ хъ || Ц ц
|-
| Цъ цъ || Ч ч || Чъ чъ || Ш ш || Щ щ || Ъ ъ || Ы ы || Ь ь
|-
| Э э || Ю ю || Я я
|}
 
===== Tajik =====
This new one seems rushed and is far less informative. An outsider would think the club has a modest history.
{{main|Tajik alphabet}}
 
The [[Tajik language|Tajik]] language (or rather the ''Tajik dialect of [[Persian language|Persian]]'') is written using a Cyrillic-based alphabet.
== Does anyone have the new song sung at Anfield? ==
Does anyone know about the new song that's being sung at Anfield, where we'll show the "5 Cups" sign to the English clubs (especially Chelsea)? If yes could there be a section on famous songs sung by the Kop? --[[User:Chapter1|chapter1]] 21:34, 20 December 2005 (UTC)
 
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Thirty-four letters of the Tajik Cyrillic alphabet, capital and lowercase"
== Liverpool FC Songs ==
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | Tajik Cyrillic alphabet
|-
| А а || Б б || Г г || Д д || Е е || Ё ё || Ж ж || З з || И и || Й й || К к
|-
| Л л || М м || Н н || О о || П п || Р р || С с || Т т || У у || Ф ф || Х х
|-
| Ч ч || Ш ш || Ъ ъ || Э э || Ю ю || Я я || Ғ ғ || {{unicode|Ӣ ӣ}} || Қ қ || {{unicode|Ӯ ӯ}} || Ҳ ҳ
|-
| {{unicode|Ҷ ҷ}}
|}
 
====Moldovan====
A whole section on Liverpool FC songs is a good idea,only it would make the page even longer, and some have already raised objections to that.
{{main |Moldovan alphabet}}
The thing is, there are loads of liverpool songs floating around everywhere, ranging from the hilarious to the downright disrespectful, maybe even offensive. Some would probably be marked as vandalism. So there really isn't any point including some of the songs and leaving out the rest.
Should i add a link to this website i discovered which has only liverpool songs? Its great fun.
I would like to know of other club songs too, if anybody knows, its damn interesting.
No, i haven't heard the latest, but i just downladed "anfield rap", its got to be the funniest i've head, and at times ironical.
[[User:Kinda crazy|Kinda crazy]] 09:30, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 
The [[Moldovan language]] used the Cyrillic alphabet between 1946 and 1989. Nowadays, this alphabet is still official in the unrecognized republic of [[Transnistria]].
== Disambiguating "Ian McCulloch" ==
 
====Mongolian====
In the section "Club Culture" the name "Ian McCulloch" appears. There is insufficient information included to allow disambiguation among the several persons by that name; could a knowledgable person please edit the wikilink to point to the correct person, a listing of options being found at [[Ian McCulloch]] - or add another to this listing if needed. Thank you. User:Ceyockey (<small>''[[User talk:Ceyockey|talk to me]]''</small>) 18:45, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 
The [[Mongolian language|Mongolic languages]] include [[Khalkha]] (in [[Mongolia]]), [[Buryat]] (around [[Lake Baikal]]) and [[Kalmyk]] (northwest of the [[Caspian Sea]]). Khalkha Mongolian is also written with the [[Mongolian alphabet|Mongol vertical alphabet]], which is being slowly reintroduced in Mongolia.
: A simple solution surely would be to label Mr McCulloch along the lines of ... (80's band) Echo and the Bunnymen's front man, Ian McCulloch. [[User:Dalglynch-72|Dalglynch-72]] 04:17, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
=====Overview=====
 
This table contains all the characters used.
== Running Season Commentary ==
Is it really necessary to have a running season commentary. I have deleted the text on liverpools 10 wins in a row, etc. This has happened before and as said before why not wait til the season ends and then write a summary. Remember this is a encyclopedia, not a way to catch up on their progress. Only significant events shoudl be included. [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 16:47, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
 
''Һһ is shown twice as it appears at two different ___location in Buryat and Kalmyk''
== BOT making link edits? ==
I think a BOT is making excessive large amounts of link editing. Its making the article look messy. In the first paragraph alone almost every other word is being made a link. I'm going to remove the inappropriate ones. [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 11:47, 12 January 2006 (UTC)
 
{| cellpadding=2 style="font-size:smaller; text-align:center;" summary="Forty letters of all the Mongolian Cyrillic alphabets, capital and lowercase"
== World club Championship - Reds in Japan ==
! '''Khalkha'''
|Аа || ||Бб ||Вв ||Гг || ||Дд ||Ее ||Ёё ||Жж || ||Зз ||Ии ||Йй ||Кк ||Лл ||Мм ||Нн || ||Оо
|-
! '''Buryat'''
|Аа || ||Бб ||Вв ||Гг || ||Дд ||Ее ||Ёё ||Жж || ||Зз ||Ии ||Йй || ||Лл ||Мм ||Нн || ||Оо
|-
! '''Kalmyk'''
|Аа ||Әә ||Бб ||Вв ||Гг ||Һһ ||Дд ||Ее || ||Жж ||Җҗ ||Зз ||Ии ||Йй ||Кк ||Лл ||Мм ||Нн ||Ңң ||Оо
|-
|
|-
! '''Khalkha'''
|Өө ||Пп ||Рр ||Сс ||Тт ||Уу ||Үү ||Фф ||Хх || ||Цц ||Чч ||Шш ||Щщ ||Ъъ ||Ыы ||Ьь ||Ээ ||Юю ||Яя
|-
! '''Buryat'''
|Өө ||Пп ||Рр ||Сс ||Тт ||Уу ||Үү || ||Хх ||Һһ ||Цц ||Чч ||Шш || || ||Ыы ||Ьь ||Ээ ||Юю ||Яя
|-
! '''Kalmyk'''
|Өө ||Пп ||Рр ||Сс ||Тт ||Уу ||Үү || ||Хх || ||Цц ||Чч ||Шш || || || ||Ьь ||Ээ ||Юю ||Яя
|}
 
=====Khalkha=====
Thsi should be incorporated into the Rafael Benitez article IMO. A sentence should do.
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Thirty-five letters of the Mongolian Cyrillic alphabet, capital and lowercase"
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | The Khalkha Mongolian alphabet
|-
| А а || Б б || В в || Г г || Д д || Е е || Ё ё || Ж ж || З з || И и || Й й
|-
| К к || Л л || М м || Н н || О о || Ө ө || П п || Р р || С с || Т т || У у
|-
| Ү ү || Ф ф || Х х || Ц ц || Ч ч || Ш ш || Щ щ || Ъ ъ || Ы ы || Ь ь || Э э
|-
| Ю ю || Я я
|}
* В в = {{IPA|/w/}}
* Е е = {{IPA|/jɛ/}}, {{IPA|/jœ/}}
* Ё ё = {{IPA|/jo/}}
* Ж ж = {{IPA|/ʤ/}}
* З з = {{IPA|/ʣ/}}
* Н н = {{IPA|/n-/}}, {{IPA|/-ŋ/}}
* Ө ө = {{IPA|/œ/}}
* Ү ү = {{IPA|/y/}}
* Ы ы = {{IPA|/iː/}} (after a hard consonant)
* Ь ь = {{IPA|/ĭ/}} (extra short)
* Ю ю = {{IPA|/ju/}}, {{IPA|/jy/}}
 
The Cyrillic letters Кк, Фф and Щщ are not used in native Mongolian words, but only for Russian loans.
Sounds good. I'll try and make the changes today. Have you considered registering with Wikipedia? It makes editing and tracability alot easier. [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 08:43, 25 January 2006 (UTC)
 
== Squad List ===Buryat=====
The [[Buryat language|Buryat]] (буряад) Cyrillic alphabet is similar to the Khalkha above, but Ьь indicates palatalization as in Russian. Buryat does not use Вв, Кк, Фф, Цц, Чч, Щщ or Ъъ in its native words.
I'm proposing changing the player classification in the squad list. Currently Strikers are classified as FW (Forward), i think this is very old-fashioned. I think ST (Striker) looks better. Ideas? [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 14:36, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
 
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Thirty-two letters of the Buryat Cyrillic alphabet, capital and lowercase"
Theres nothing wrong with FW, but no objections to ST either. Also, i was thinking the page can be made to look a bit better by adding some pictures.i cant understand how im supposed to get copyright free pics, ive failed in my attempts so far, i guess im not clear about the procedure.anyway,ill keep trying
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | The Buryat Mongolian alphabet
[[User:Kinda crazy|Kinda crazy]] 15:00, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
|-
::Pretty much all sports pictures are problematical from a copyright point of view - basically, unless you took the photo yourself, or the photographer's been dead for more than 70 years (it sometimes only ''feels'' like more than 70 years since Crouch scored! :) ) then it's very difficult to satisfy Wikipedia's copyright licensing requirements. There are very few publications, professional photographers, or sites which will license their work under the GFDL or CC. If you look at [[FA Cup]], the hands holding the cup are those of the photographers' little kids, which is how we know the photo's legit! Even club logos are a bit difficult - I know the Premier League has asserted copyright on them and forced some sites to take them down - it's only because our servers are in the US and we're able to assert fair use for how we use them that we've really got away with them. -- [[User:Arwel_Parry|Arwel]] ([[User talk:Arwel_Parry|talk]]) 15:40, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
| А а || Б б || В в || Г г || Д д || Е е || Ё ё || Ж ж || З з || И и || Й й
|-
| Л л || М м || Н н || О о || Ө ө || П п || Р р || С с || Т т || У у || Ү ү
|-
| Х х || Һ һ || Ц ц || Ч ч || Ш ш || Ы ы || Ь ь || Э э || Ю ю || Я я
|}
* Е е = {{IPA|/jɛ/}}, {{IPA|/jœ/}}
* Ё ё = {{IPA|/jo/}}
* Ж ж = {{IPA|/ʤ/}}
* Н н = {{IPA|/n-/}}, {{IPA|/-ŋ/}}
* Ө ө = {{IPA|/œ/}}
* Ү ү = {{IPA|/y/}}
* Һ һ = {{IPA|/h/}}
* Ы ы = {{IPA|/ei/}}, {{IPA|/iː/}}
* Ю ю = {{IPA|/ju/}}, {{IPA|/jy/}}
 
=====Kalmyk=====
:I just think Striker is more commonly used when referring to a Striker!! Forward is more often used specifically for Centre-Forward which defines a specific role on the pitch, whereas Striker is more generic. [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 16:28, 30 January 2006 (UTC)
The [[Kalmyk language|Kalmyk]] (хальмг) Cyrillic alphabet is similar to the Khalkha, but the letters Ээ, Юю and Яя appear only word-initially. In Kalmyk, long vowels are written double in the first syllable (нөөрин), but single in syllables after the first. Short vowels are omitted altogether in syllables after the first syllable (хальмг = {{IPA|/xaʎmag/}}).
 
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Thirty-four letters of the Kalmyk Cyrillic alphabet, capital and lowercase"
Hmm..yea,u have a point,change it. great to see fowler back though,hope he keeps scoring whether he's a ST or a FW,hehe.
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | The Kalmyk Mongolian alphabet
[[User:Kinda crazy|Kinda crazy]]
|-
| А а || Ә ә || Б б || В в || Г г || Һ һ || Д д || Е е || Ж ж || Җ җ || З з
|-
| И и || Й й || К к || Л л || М м || Н н || Ң ң || О о || Ө ө || П п || Р р
|-
| С с || Т т || У у || Ү ү || Х х || Ц ц || Ч ч || Ш ш || Ь ь || Э э || Ю ю
|-
| Я я
|}
* Ә ә = {{IPA|/æ/}}
* В в = {{IPA|/w/}}
* Һ һ = {{IPA|/ɣ/}}
* Е е = {{IPA|/ɛ/}}, {{IPA|/jɛ-/}}
* Җ җ = {{IPA|/ʤ/}}
* Ң ң = {{IPA|/ŋ/}}
* Ө ө = {{IPA|/œ/}}
* Ү ү = {{IPA|/y/}}
 
==== Northwest Caucasian languages ====
::Forward is far more generic than striker. Kenny Dalglish would be classified as a forward and Ian Rush as a striker for instance. Striker has a narrower definition and suggests a player who is in the team just to score goals, whereas a forward has far more to his game. [[User:Rushian77|Rushian77]] 11:42, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
Living [[Northwest Caucasian languages]] are generally written using adaptations of the Cyrillic alphabet.
 
=====Abkhaz=====
:::I disagree. The Wikipedia article for 'Forward' redirects to Striker. Quote - "Strikers, also known as centre forwards, forwards, and attackers, are the players on a team in football (soccer) in the row nearest to the opposing team's goal, who are therefore principally responsible for scoring goals". So in my opinion and by implication wikipedias is that Striker is more generic. [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 12:42, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 
{{main|Abkhaz alphabet}}
:::: That is such a poor Wikipedia article though. Forward has always had a more general meaning than striker. Forward can refer to attackign wingers for instance - Chelsea play with three forwards, Drogba, Robben and Duff yet only Drogba would be referred to as a striker. All three could be referred to as forwards. [[User:Rushian77|Rushian77]] 19:46, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 
[[Abkhaz language|Abkhaz]] is a [[Caucasian language]], spoken in the Autonomous Republic of [[Abkhazia]], [[Georgia (country)|Georgia]].
:::::Ok, the fact that an attacking midfeilder (i.e. Robben, Duff) can be classed as a forward, then surely Striker should be used to classify the distinction between a attcking player who isn't a midfielder. I.e. A Striker. Remember the whole point of this part of the discussion is what term to classify our strikers in the squad list as - FW or ST. If we use FW, there could be confusion where they play (not their role).[[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 15:05, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 
{| cellpadding=4 class="Unicode" style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Fifty-eight letters of the Abkhaz alphabet, capital and small"
::::::The majority of club pages use FW. Some pages use CF. For the sake of uniformity I think FW should be used, despite CF being more accurate. [[User:Stumason|Stu]] 15:41, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | The Abkhaz alphabet
|-
| А а || Б б || В в || Г г || Гь гь || Ҕ ҕ || Ҕь ҕь || Д д || Дә дә || Џ џ || Џь џь
|-
| Е е || Ҽ ҽ || Ҿ ҿ || Ж ж || Жь жь || Жә жә || З з || Ӡ ӡ || Ӡә ӡә || И и || Й й
|-
| К к || Кь кь || Қ қ || Қь қь || Ҟ ҟ || Ҟь ҟь || Л л || М м || Н н || О о || Ҩ ҩ
|-
| П п || Ҧ ҧ || Р р || С с || Т т || Тә тә || Ҭ ҭ || Ҭә ҭә || У у || Ф ф || Х х
|-
| Хь хь || Ҳ ҳ || Ҳә ҳә || Ц ц || Цә цә || Ҵ ҵ || Ҵә ҵә || Ч ч || Ҷ ҷ || Ш ш || Шь шь
|-
| Шә шә || Щ щ || Ы ы
|}
 
====Turkic languages====
:::::::I totally disagree. Look at a random selection of premiership club official websites and take a look at their squad list, you'll find they use the term 'ST' for striker. I checked Liverpool, Arsenal, Tottenham & Newcastle - all used Striker. I must add these we're random selections, i'd be pretty sure that the majority if not all clubs used the term striker. I think this should be reflected in the wikipedia article.[[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 09:08, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
=====Azerbaijani=====
 
{{main|Azerbaijani alphabet}}
::::::::Jamie, I'm talking about the club's pages on Wikipedia, not external pages. There needs to be continuity with other Wikipedia club articles. You may have a point about Forward not being accurate enough, but if we change it here then all football club pages will have to be changed. [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Football]] might be a good place to discuss it. [[User:Stumason|Stu]] 09:24, 9 February 2006 (UTC)
 
The Cyrillic alphabet was used for the [[Azerbaijani language]] from 1939 to 1991.
::::::::: When we consider the idiomatic expression, 'star striker' (no such 'star forward' exists), we should accept that players employed with goal scoring their primary job description to be strikers. As stated, forwards is more generic including wingers and strikers. It's not such an important issue though methinks. [[User:Dalglynch-72|Dalglynch-72]] 04:18, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 
== Deleting ===Bashkir=====
The Cyrillic alphabet was used for the [[Bashkir language]] after the winter of [[1938]].
 
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Bashkir Alphabet"
I've put the latest results on the page. What's wrong with it? Someone keeps on deleting it.
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | The Bashkir alphabet
|-
| А а || Б б || В в || Г г || Ғ ғ || Д д || {{Unicode |Ҙ ҙ}} || Е е || Ё ё || Ж ж || З з
|-
| И и || Й й || К к || {{Unicode |Ҡ ҡ}} || Л л || М м || Н н || Ң ң || О о || Ө ө || П п
|-
| Р р || С с || {{Unicode |Ҫ ҫ}} || Т т || У у || Ү ү || Ф ф || Х х || Һ һ || Ц ц || Ч ч ||
|-
| Ш ш || Щ щ || Ъ ъ || Ы ы || Ь ь || Э э || Ә ә || Ю ю || Я я
|}
 
=====Chuvash=====
--[[User:Number 8|Number 8]] 07:27, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 
The Cyrillic alphabet is used for the [[Chuvash language]] since the late 19th century, with some changes in 1938.
: Your edits are getting replaced because this is an encyclopedia - a knowledge base. Not a results service. The page isn't a fans website, where you can get all the latest news. Its purpose is to inform someone who Liverpool FC are and include some key historical background information and stats about the club. Although your additions have good intentions, keeping an up to date service is inefficient and messy, thats why we only include big events. Hope this helps [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 09:41, 1 February 2006 (UTC)
 
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Thirty-seven letters of the Soviet-era Chuvash alphabet, capital and small"
Why has no Liverpool fan corrected the error in the current squad list? Reina has replaced Dudek as goalie yet this has yet to be noted on the main wiki page! As a neutral i am sure that many wish to remember Dudek's brilliant contribution in last years CL final but lets get with reality..Reina is doing a brilliant job. Finally I would just like to say if the reuslt of Reyna stroking your cheek leads to loss of lower limb function, he must be a wow with the ladies!!
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | The Chuvash alphabet
|-
| А а || {{Unicode|Ӑ ӑ}} || Б б || В в || Г г || Д д || Е е || Ё ё || {{Unicode|Ӗ ӗ}} || Ж ж || З з
|-
| И и || Й й || К к || Л л || М м || Н н || О о || П п || Р р || С с || {{Unicode|Ҫ ҫ}}
|-
| Т т || У у || {{Unicode|Ӳ ӳ}} || Ф ф || Х х || Ц ц || Ч ч || Ш ш || Щ щ || Ъ ъ || Ы ы
|-
| Ь ь || Э э || Ю ю || Я я
|}
 
=====Kazakh=====
:I think your getting confused, Dudek maintained the #1 shirt at te beginning of the season, Reina was assigned #25. Things will most probably change next season [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 13:40, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
 
[[Kazakh language|Kazakh]] is also written with the Latin alphabet (in [[Turkey]], but not in [[Kazakhstan]]), and modified [[Arabic alphabet]] (in the [[People's Republic of China]], [[Iran]] and [[Afghanistan]]).
== You'll Never Walk Alone and other clubs ==
Ok I've rewritten the YNWA section again to reflect both Ajax and Milan singing it. There really is no debate on who sung it first - no serious Celtic historian has ever claimed their fans sang the song, there's no documentary evidence of Celtic supporters singing it in the 60s (TV, newspaper, books, other media) whereas tons of such evidence exists regarding Liverpool FC and the Kop. This spurious nonsense has only arisen in the last ten years since it became more popular at Celtic and is parrotted by Mancs and Evertonians wanting to "have a dig" at Liverpool. [[User:Rushian77|Rushian77]] 11:40, 3 February 2006 (UTC)
 
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Forty-two letters of the Kazakh alphabet, capital and lowercase"
What about the thousand of Celtic fans who claim Celtic sang it first-are they all liars? or the show on Radio Ulster last year who after careful research concluded that Celtic FC did indeed sing that song first.Celtic fans at that particular time(1950s)where singing songs from other musicals not just from Carousel but also The Pirates of Penzance-It was a very musical time in the clubs history.The Celtic supporters are far too proud a bunch to "steal" a song from another club,and i find it insulting and it also makes me view the fans of Liverpool with less regard.How many Liverpudlians can say they know for a fact that Celtic didnt sing that song first?.The fans of Liverpool have not proven they where the first to sing that song they just claim to be without ANYTHING to back there claims up-Its as arrogant as it is pathetic.
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | The Kazakh alphabet
A lie told often enough becomes the truth.
|-
Lenin (1870 - 1924)
| А а || Ә ә || Б б || В в || Г г || Ғ ғ || Д д || Е е || Ё ё || Ж ж || З з
:Due to daily vandalism regarding this I have [[WP:SPP|semi-protected]] the article. [[User:NSLE|NSL]][[WP:EA|<font color="green">E]]</font> <sub>([[User_talk:NSLE|T]]+[[Special:Contributions/NSLE|C]])</sub> 09:42, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
|-
| И и || Й й || К к || Қ қ || Л л || М м || Н н || Ң ң || О о || Ө ө || П п
|-
| Р р || С с || Т т || У у || Ұ ұ || Ү ү || Ф ф || Х х || Һ һ || Ц ц || Ч ч
|-
| Ш ш || Щ щ || Ъ ъ || Ы ы || İ і || Ь ь || Э э || Ю ю || Я я
|}
 
* Ә ә = {{IPA|/æ/}}
::Time to take the semi-protection off? It's supposed only to be a very short temporary measure, rather than lasting for five days. Also, this issue seems to be more an edit/revert war, than pure vandalism. [[User:KeithD|KeithD]] 09:25, 13 February 2006 (UTC)
* Ғ ғ = {{IPA|/ʁ/ }} ([[voiced uvular fricative]])
:::I've requested unprotection for this page. Thought I should let you know.[[User:KeithD|KeithD]] 09:10, 16 February 2006 (UTC)
* Қ қ = {{IPA|/q/}} ([[voiceless uvular plosive]])
* Ң ң = {{IPA|/ŋ/}}
* Ө ө = {{IPA|/œ/}}
* У у = {{IPA|/uw/}}, {{IPA|/yw/}},{{IPA|/w/}}
* Ұ ұ = {{IPA|/u/}}
* Ү ү = {{IPA|/y/}}
* Һ һ = {{IPA| /h/}}
* İ і = {{IPA|/i/}}
 
The Cyrillic letters Вв, Ёё, Цц, Чч, Щщ, Ъъ, Ьь and Ээ are not used in native Kazakh words, but only for Russian loans.
: There is evidence regarding Celtic and YNWA pre-1960; please stop obliterating anything which doesn't happen to happily agree with your views. <small>&mdash;''The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by'' [[User:86.11.175.193|86.11.175.193]] ([[User talk:86.11.175.193|talk]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/86.11.175.193|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><!--Inserted with Template:Unsigned-->
 
=====Kyrgyz=====
:: Please note that Wikipedia is all about [[WP:V|verifiability]]. If you have evidence that Celtic fans sang YNWA before Liverpool fans did that, please put it forward here to dispute that assertion. If that piece of evidence turns out to be reliable, we'll be more than happy to put it up on the article. Otherwise, as of this moment the source cited on the article, ie [http://football.guardian.co.uk/news/theknowledge/0,9204,912750,00.html this], continues to stand and we are obligued to follow this source and say Liverpool fans sang it first. --[[User:Pkchan|Pkchan]] 03:59, 5 March 2006 (UTC)
 
[[Kyrgyz language|Kyrgyz]] has also been written in Latin and in Arabic.
: So Liverpool may not have been the first club to sing YNWA? Well here's an interesting notion... who cares? It doesn't detract from the fact it's become the club's anthem and motto, and is not the anthem of any other club. Why is this so important to [[User 58.84.73.78]]?
 
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Thirty letters of the Kyrgyz Cyrillic alphabet, capital and lowercase"
: I think I preferred it when the page was just being vandalised by smug Man Utd fans who've conveniently forgotten they were knocked out of the Champions League this season before Liverpool. But anyway. --[[User:Stevefarrell|Stevefarrell]] 13:37, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | The Kyrgyz alphabet
Again I request that the Neutrality of the article box stays.
|-
You are being unfair,pigheaded and damned right arrogant
| А а || Б б || Г г || Д д || Е е || Ё ё || Ж ж || З з || И и || Й й || К к
Fans of Celtic sang that song first,you might not like that but its the truth.
|-
| Л л || М м || Н н || Ң ң || О о || Ө ө || П п || Р р || С с || Т т || У у
|-
| Ү ү || Х х || Ч ч || Ш ш || Ы ы || Э э || Ю ю || Я я
|}
 
* Ң ң = {{IPA|/ŋ/}} ([[velar nasal]])
: Then give a source for it... &ndash; <font face="fixedsys">[[User:Johan Elisson|Elisson]]</font> [[Special:Contributions/Johan Elisson|•]] <font face="fixedsys">[[User talk:Johan Elisson|Talk]]</font> 14:49, 25 March 2006 (UTC)
* Ү ү = {{IPA|/y/}} ([[close front rounded vowel]])
* Ө ө = {{IPA|/œ/}} ([[open-mid front rounded vowel]])
 
=====Uzbek=====
There is no reliable source available that proves liverpool sang the song first,its pure heresay-the newspaper article is a pure joke. <small>—This [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:58.84.68.200|58.84.68.200]] ([[User talk:58.84.68.200|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/58.84.68.200|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><!-- [Template:Unsigned] -->
The Cyrillic alphabet is still used most often for the [[Uzbek language]], although the government has adopted a version of the Latin alphabet to replace it. The deadline for making this transition has however been repeatedly changed. The latest deadline was supposed to be 2005, but was shifted once again a few more years. Some scholars are not convinced that the transition will be made at all.
 
{| cellpadding=4 style="font-size:larger; text-align:center;" summary="Thirty letters of the Soviet-era Uzbek alphabet, capital and small"
: Then give us a reliable source that the newspaper article is pure joke... &ndash; <font face="fixedsys">[[User:Johan Elisson|Elisson]]</font> [[Special:Contributions/Johan Elisson|•]] <font face="fixedsys">[[User talk:Johan Elisson|Talk]]</font> 13:33, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
|+ style="font-size:smaller;" | The Uzbek Cyrillic alphabet
|-
| А а || Б б || В в || Г г || Д д || Е е || Ё ё || Ж ж || З з || И и || Й й || К к
|-
| Л л || М м || Н н || О о ||П п || Р р || С с || Т т || У у || Ф ф || Х х || Ч ч
|-
| Ш ш || Ъ ъ || Э э || Ю ю || Я я || Ў ў || Қ қ || Ғ ғ || Ҳ ҳ
|}
 
* В в = {{IPA|/w/}}
Elisson you fire back blanks after blanks-The source of your information is
* Ж ж = {{IPA|/ʤ/}}
only heresay-if you read the article you'll know its as much-pure heresay,I have sought proof that Celtic sang that song first and am happy with that evidence however i wouldnt insult the wikipedia organisation with putting anything on the pages that could not be verifiable 110% unlike the fans of Liverpool who are happy to abuse the wikipedia network by claiming something they cannot prove.
* Ф ф = {{IPA|/ɸ/}}
Ive tried to do the right thing by rather than contradicting the lies on YNWA section,ive just put up a {npov} box urging further debates,however some of your guys are that petty they even take that box away,something i admit has left me gobsmacked-its only a song.Im personally fed up with the whole debate <small>—This [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:58.84.68.200|58.84.68.200]] ([[User talk:58.84.68.200|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/58.84.68.200|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><!-- [Template:Unsigned] -->
* Х х = {{IPA|/χ/}}
* Ъ ъ = {{IPA|/ʔ/}}
* Ў ў = {{IPA|/ø/}}
* Қ қ = {{IPA|/q/}}
* Ғ ғ = {{IPA|/ʁ/}}
* Ҳ ҳ = {{IPA|/h/}}
 
== Relationship to other writing systems ==
: Why don't you provide the "evidence" you say you have found? The NPOV box has nothing to do in the section, to me as an outsider, it represents a neutral point of view, and is backed up by a source. &ndash; <font face="fixedsys">[[User:Johan Elisson|Elisson]]</font> [[Special:Contributions/Johan Elisson|•]] <font face="fixedsys">[[User talk:Johan Elisson|Talk]]</font> 14:35, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
=== Latin alphabets ===
 
A number of languages written in the Cyrillic alphabet have also been written in the [[Latin alphabet]].
Because that evidence,like that of The Guardian is pure heresay-The biggest reason why im so hot on this issue isnt because of being a Celtic fan,they are simply a football team,Its Wikipedia-this organisation is supposedly one of the most respected,I love it-as i feel it holds high vale for education of the masses.
and complete rubbish like this debate needs to be challenged for the good of wikipedia <small>—This [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:58.84.71.170|58.84.71.170]] ([[User talk:58.84.71.170|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/58.84.71.170|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><!-- [Template:Unsigned] -->
 
The old [[Belarusian Latin alphabet]] (''Łacinka'') is based on Polish orthography, but, because of the political realities in the former USSR, Belarusian is usually romanized by analogy to Russian.
:: Please check [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources]] for what qualifies as a reliable source on Wikipedia. The Guardian article, like it or not, falls into the reputable media category and thus qualifies as a reliable source. If you don't like it, feel free to challenge this at [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources]] or its talk page. Before that, there is no POV dispute and not even factual dispute over this issue.
:: And, by the way, please format your comments properly in wikitext. See [[Help:Editing]] if you'd like to learn more about the syntax here. And I'd strongly recommend you to sign up for an account, and sign your name for your comments. Like you, we're all here because we love and respect Wikipedia as a respectable knowledge source. Your positive contribution here will be most appreciated here. --[[User:Pkchan|Pkchan]] 11:48, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
 
Serbian is written in both Cyrillic and Latin alphabets. In Serbian there is a one-to-one correspondence between [[Vuk Stefanovic Karadzic|Vuk Karadžić]]'s Serbian Cyrillic and [[Ljudevit Gaj]]'s Croatian [[Croatian alphabet|Gajica]] (derived from the [[Czech alphabet]]. See [[Serbo-Croatian language#Writing systems|Serbo-Croatian writing systems]].)
::I think the truth of the matter is that you don't agree with the stance the Guardian newspaper have taken. Sour grapes will get you no where my friend.[[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 15:22, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
 
There are also Latin alphabets for some non-Slavic languages, such as [[Azerbaijani language|Azerbaijani]], [[Uzbek language|Uzbek]] or [[Moldovan language|Moldavian]]. After the disintegration of the Soviet Union in 1991, official status shifted from Cyrillic to Latin. The transition is complete in most of Moldova, but Azerbaijan and Uzbekistan still use both systems.
::: Whilst I'll always assume LFC to be the first team to have adopted the YNWA chant (like most LFC fans with most Celtic fans probably disagreeing), I think reviewers on this talk page are putting too much emphasis needlessly on the importance of who sang it first. I presume no-one submitting is a minor. Suffice to say, the easiest way round it has to be in how you word the English. Why not... It was on the 1960's Kop that it is widely believed that LFC fans were the first to take the YNWA song to their hearts, adopting as an anthem. We have to bear in mind that most people around the World will never have heard about Glasgow Celtic, let alone their glory years, except in reference to them being the club that sold Liverpool King Kenny Dalglish. [[User:Dalglynch-72|Dalglynch-72]] 04:18, 24 April 2006 (UTC)
 
=== Talk pageRomanization ===
Wikipedia policy/Etiquette is that talk pages aren't edited, rather Archived when they get too big. These topics may arise in the future and without any discussion history debates or issues will be reinvented. Also to be honest the discussion page here is no where near the size of other pages, i don't think we have much to worry about at the moment.[[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 09:05, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
 
There are various systems for [[romanization]] of Cyrillic text, including [[transliteration]] to convey Cyrillic spelling in [[Latin]] characters, and [[Transcription (linguistics)|transcription]] to convey [[pronunciation]].
Im putting in the disputed article box again,ive tried my best to find middle ground but ive found this NSLE guy not very co-operative.
I know (for a fact) Celtic fans sang that song first,but its still only a song-a great song no doubt about it.I believe the disputed article box allows
encyclopedia buffs the opportunity to explore this Anfield myth and know that theres more to this storie than what they have been led to believe <small>—This [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:58.84.67.32|58.84.67.32]] ([[User talk:58.84.67.32|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/58.84.67.32|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><!-- [Template:Unsigned] -->
 
Standard Cyrillic-to-Latin transliteration systems include:
: As a neutral I don't ''"know"'' whether the Liverpool fans or the Celtic fans sang it first. I only know that there have been evidence put up to support the Liverpool fans' claim, and none, apart from hearsay, to support the Celtic fans'.
* [[Scientific transliteration]], used in linguistics, is based on the Latin [[Croatian alphabet]].
: If you are confident about your claim, why don't you put up some [[WP:V|verifiable]] evidence here for us all to judge? We'll then all be happy. Repeating groundless claims over and over again here won't lead you anywhere. --[[User:Pkchan|Pkchan]] 14:49, 31 March 2006 (UTC)
* The [http://www.eki.ee/wgrs/ Working Group on Romanization Systems] of the [[United Nations]] recommends different systems for specific languages. These are the most commonly used around the world.
* [[ISO 9]]:1995, from the International Organization for Standardization.
* American Library Association and Library of Congress Romanization tables for Slavic alphabets ([[ALA-LC Romanization]]), used in North American libraries.
* [[BGN/PCGN romanization]] (1947), United States Board on Geographic Names & Permanent Committee on Geographical Names for British Official Use).
* [[GOST 16876-71|GOST 16876]], a now defunct Soviet transliteration standard. Replaced by GOST 7.79, which is [[ISO 9]] equivalent.
* [[Volapuk encoding]], an informal rendering of Cyrillic text over Latin-alphabet ASCII.
 
See also [[romanization of Belarusian]], [[romanization of Bulgarian|Bulgarian]], [[romanization of Kyrgyz|Kyrgyz]], [[romanization of Russian|Russian]], and [[romanization of Ukrainian|Ukrainian]].
== Misc ==
 
=== Cyrillization ===
:::::::::With the Champions League squads being set following the transfer window, a few more Liverpool players have been given squad numbers. Adam Hammill is 40 (David Martin hasn't been assigned a number yet), James Smith is 41, Daniel O'Donnell is 42, Lee Peltier is 43 and Robbie Foy is 44. Great job with the page! [[User:24.68.200.219|24.68.200.219]] 07:23, 10 February 2006 (UTC)
 
Representing other writing systems with Cyrillic letters is called [[Cyrillization]].
:The club have announce to sign new argentine central defender which arrive at june, [[Gabriel Alejandro Paletta]], now playing at [[C.A. Banfield]]. Can someone write the article b4 he arrived? [[User:Matthew hk|Matthew hk]] 14:40, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
::Her is some material: He born in [[February 15]] [[1986]], and won the 2005 [[FIFA World Youth Championship]], weight 80kg, 183cm tall...[[User:Matthew hk|Matthew hk]] 15:04, 14 February 2006 (UTC)
 
== CommentComputer by anonymous userencoding ==
{{further|[[Cyrillic characters in Unicode]]}}
<div style="float:right">
{{Unicode chart Cyrillic}}
</div>
 
In [[Unicode]], the Cyrillic block extends from U+0400 to U+052F. The characters in the range U+0400 to U+045F are basically the characters from [[ISO 8859-5]] moved upward by 864 positions. The characters in the range U+0460 to U+0489 are historic letters, not used now. The characters in the range U+048A to U+052F are additional letters for various languages that are written with Cyrillic script.
That article is purely heresay it holds no evidence whatsoever and the whole. "Who sang YNWA first" is debatable aswell as heavily disputable. The claim that Celtic fans sang the song first is real and its not going to go away any time soon. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:58.84.77.240|58.84.77.240]] ([[User talk:58.84.77.240|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/58.84.77.240|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><!-- [Template:Unsigned] -->
 
[[Unicode]] does not include accented Cyrillic letters, but they can be [[Combining diacritical mark|combined]] by adding U+0301 ("combining acute accent") after the accented vowel (e.g., ы́ э́ ю́ я́). Some languages, including modern [[Church Slavonic language|Church Slavonic]], are still not fully supported.
: Back up your claim with evidence here. Otherwise your claim still stay as a "claim", ie [[WP:V|unverifiable]] assertion which every editor is entitled to discard. --[[User:Pkchan|Pkchan]] 02:18, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
::So your trying to base the whole theory of Liverpool being the first fans to sing that song based purely on the say so of a newspaper-that argument holds no water as your well aware-To call 'The Guardian' as verifiable evidence is a disgrace and is wholly contemptable.
:::Why is the Guardian a disgrace? And no, that's not what the whole theory is being based on - I would say that, Celtic supporters aside, just about everyone would agree that Liverpool sang it first. I dare say most people don't even know that Celtic sing it. But either way it's going to be controversial. Maybe we could amend the text in the article to say that Celtic fans firmly state that they sang it first, but most people and sources indicate this to be untrue. [[User:Stumason|<font color = "green">'''Stu'''</font>]] [[User talk:Stumason|<font color = "green"><sup>''’Bout ye!''</sup></font>]] 16:04, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 
Punctuation for Cyrillic text is similar to that used in European Latin-alphabet languages.
::::However tearful Celtic fans want to get about the subject and/or the Guardian article - its still more cited evidence than Celtic fans have provided. So it stays. Find a source backing up your silly claim and then come back. [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 16:45, 14 March 2006 (UTC)
 
Other [[character encoding]] systems for Cyrillic:
:::::If when the article gets unprotected and vandalism resumes I intend to contact the ISP. [[User:NSLE|NSL]][[WP:EA|<font color="green">E]]</font> <sub>([[User_talk:NSLE|T]]+[[Special:Contributions/NSLE|C]])</sub> at 01:01 [[Coordinated Universal Time|UTC]] <small>([[2006-03-15]])</small>
* [[CP866]] – 8-bit Cyrillic character encoding established by [[Microsoft]] for use in [[MS-DOS]] also known as GOST-alternative
* [[ISO/IEC 8859-5]] – 8-bit Cyrillic character encoding established by [[International Organization for Standardization]]
* [[KOI8-R]] – 8-bit native Russian character encoding
* [[KOI8-U]] – KOI8-R with addition of Ukrainian letters
* [[MIK Code page|MIK]] – 8-bit native Bulgarian character encoding for use in [[DOS]]
* [[Windows-1251]] – 8-bit Cyrillic character encoding established by Microsoft for use in [[Microsoft Windows]]. Former standard encoding in [[GNU/Linux]] for Belarusian and Bulgarian, but currently displaced by [[UTF-8]].
* [[GOST-main]]
* [[JIS_encoding|JIS]] and [[Shift_JIS]] - Principally Japanese encodings. But they also have basic 33 Cyrillic letters (in upper- and lower-case).
 
=== Keyboard layouts ===
Its not vandalism,its the truth -Wikipedia is about facts and Liverpool fans claiming that song first is a damned lie-breed only through ignorance.
Each language has its own standard [[keyboard layout]], adopted from [[typewriter]]s. With the flexibility of computer input methods, there are also transliterating or [[homophonic]] keyboard layouts made for typists who are more familiar with other layouts, like the common English [[qwerty keyboard]]. When practical Cyrillic keyboard layouts or fonts are not available, computer users sometimes use transliteration or look-alike "[[volapuk encoding|volapuk]]" encoding to type languages which are normally written with the Cyrillic alphabet.
 
See [[Keyboard layout#Keyboard layouts for non-Roman alphabetic scripts|Keyboard layouts for non-Roman alphabetic scripts]].
: We still haven't seen you put forward any evidence to support your claim. Prove your assertion and let others verify it, or your claim will continue to be ignored and reverted here. Please note that that thousands of [[Celtic F.C.|Celtic]] fans claiming that they sang YNWA first doesn't count as a proof -- it is as convincing as that thousands of Liverpool fans claiming that they sang YNWA first, that is, not convincing at all. --[[User:Pkchan|Pkchan]] 11:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
 
== Notes ==
<References/>
 
== References ==
Neither have you-The Guardian newspaper has no creedence in this issue whatsoever.What you are doing in effect is dishonest,on a medium like the internet that is nothing new-however,when you spout those lies on a trusted encyclopedia like Wikipedia thats just not on,and for that reason alone this issue will not go to sleep.You have every right to claim Liverpool fans sang YNWA in the early 60s - Theres no problem with that.
* [[Robert Bringhurst|Bringhurst, Robert]] (2002). ''[[The Elements of Typographic Style]]'' (version 2.5), pp. 262–264. Vancouver, Hartley & Marks. ISBN 0-88179-133-4.
* Nezirović, M. (1992). ''Jevrejsko-španjolska književnost''. Sarajevo: Svjetlost. [cited in Šmid, 2002]
* Šmid, Katja (2002). "[http://hispanismo.cervantes.es/documentos/smidX.pdf Los problemas del estudio de la lengua sefardí]", in ''Verba Hispanica'', vol X. Liubliana: Facultad de Filosofía y Letras de la Universidad de Liubliana. ISSN 0353-9660.
 
== See also ==
Debatable and disputable + Absolutlty NO proof = Not worthy of Wikipedia article
* [[Faux Cyrillic]], real or fake Cyrillic letters used to give Latin-alphabet text a Soviet or Russian feel
* [[Russian Manual Alphabet]] (the [[fingerspelling|fingerspelled]] Cyrillic alphabet)
* [[Cyrillic Alphabet Day]]
 
== External links ==
* [http://www.omniglot.com/writing/cyrillic.htm Cyrillic alphabet at omniglot.com]
* [http://www.peoples.org.ru/eng_index.html Minority Languages of Russia on the Net], a list of resources.
* [http://www.jewishgen.org/jri-pl/translit.htm Information on Cyrillic transliteration] and the handwritten script form of Cyrillic.
* [http://www.terena.nl/library/multiling/euroml/mlcs5-cyr.txt A Survey of the Use of Modern Cyrillic Script], including the complete required repertoire of graphic characters, by J. W. van Wingen.
* [http://www.tipometar.org/ Tipometar: Serbian Cyrillic typography and typefaces]
* [http://czyborra.com/charsets/cyrillic.html The Cyrillic Charset Soup], Roman Czyborra’s overview and history of Cyrillic charsets.
* [http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0400.pdf Unicode Code Charts "Cyrillic"] (PDF)
* [http://www.unicode.org/charts/PDF/U0500.pdf Unicode Code Charts "Cyrillic Supplement"] (PDF)
* [http://transliteration.eki.ee/ Transliteration of Non-Roman Scripts], a collection of writing systems and transliteration tables, by Thomas T. Pederson. Includes PDF reference charts for many languages' transliteration systems.
 
{{Cyrillic alphabet}}
: There is verifiable proof of Liverpool adopting the song from 1962 onwards, both in contemporary press (Liverpool Echo, various national newspapers) and in contemporary radio and TV broadcasts (both of matches and in the famous Panorama documentary). No such similar contemporary evidence exists for Celtic singing the song anywhere near this early. Not one iota. The same can be said for every other club in world football. As such the evidence for the claim of LFC singing YNWA first is both clear and substantiated. [[User:Rushian77|Rushian77]] 18:41, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
 
[[Category:Cyrillic alphabet| ]]
It is not clear and substantiated,if it was we wouldnt be having this discussion
nothing in regards to Liverpool Fans singing that song first is verifiable other than your claim that you sang it in the 60s Thats the only thing you can verify,There are thousands of Celtic fans all over this cyberspace who tell you
They sang that song in the 1950s along with "Hail Hail"<Coincidentally from another musical of that era-The Pirates of Penzance---You can shout and scream your heart out but the fact remains Celtic fans sang that song first in the 1950s<I know that and i think deep down you realise that aswell.Celtic fans are far too proud a bunch to steal a claim to something like that.
You should just be proud that you sing it too.
 
[[af:Cyrilliese alfabet]]
:We appreciate that you believe that you are right, but Wikipedia operates on [[Wikipedia:Verifiability|verifiability]] and [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]], not what you personally believe. And you shouldn't presume to know what other people are thinking. [[User:Stumason|<font color = "green">'''Stu'''</font>]] [[User talk:Stumason|<font color = "green"><sup>''’Bout ye!''</sup></font>]] 12:28, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
[[als:Kyrillisches Alphabet]]
 
[[ast:Alfabetu cirílicu]]
I dont believe im right - I know it.
[[be:Кірыліца]]
As for the verifiability-Liverpool have not proven an iota that they sang that song first
[[bs:Ćirilica]]
 
[[br:Lizherenneg kirillek]]
:What type of arguement is "thousands of celtic fans ...wil tell you" - I think alot more Liverpool fans will tell you the same. Basically a useless arguement. Heres a little test for you - Go to Google and type in '''You'll Never Walk Alone''', see how many celtic references there are compared to Liverpool. I think it speaks volumes that you are clutching on a song, i mean as your history goes theres not much. I guess i should feel sorry for you. [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]]
[[bg:Кирилица]]
 
[[ca:Alfabet ciríl·lic]]
Personal issues aside you still have no verifiable evidence Liverpool sang YNWA first.
[[cv:Кириллица]]
A lie told often enough becomes the truth.
[[cs:Cyrilice]]
Lenin (1870 - 1924)
[[cy:Gwyddor Gyrilig]]
 
[[da:Kyrilliske alfabet]]
:We never said it was a lie. Celtic may have sang it first, but as there's no proof, and it's more or less the official theme of Liverpool, we're sticking with 'pool unless we get proof '''[[User:Sceptre|<span style="color: #09F">Sceptr</span>]][[WP:EA|<span style="color: green">e</span>]]''' <sup>(<em>[[User_talk:Sceptre|<span style="color: #606">Talk</span>]]</em>)</sup> 20:06, 22 March 2006 (UTC)
[[de:Kyrillisches Alphabet]]
Fans of Liverpool claim to have sang it first(Lie) If fans of Liverpool claimed they sang it in the early 1960s there would have been nothing to debate-except
[[et:Kirillitsa]]
Fans of Liverpool are trying to claim something they cannot prove.
[[el:Κυριλλικό αλφάβητο]]
 
[[es:Alfabeto cirílico]]
== External Links ==
[[eo:Cirila alfabeto]]
Whoever keeps editing the Extaernal links section please stop. You can't just decide what are applicable links and what aren't. If you unhappy - discuss (shock horror!) [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 09:06, 23 March 2006 (UTC)
[[eu:Alfabeto ziriliko]]
:When I read through the article just now I was shocked at the sheer quantity of external links. I've replaced the many links to supporters club branches with one to the relevant page on the official website. As for the large number of fansites, [[Wikipedia:External links]] says "Fan sites: On articles about topics with many fansites, including a link to one major fansite is appropriate, marking the link as such. In extreme cases, a link to a web directory of fansites can replace this link." As I'm not a Liverpool supporter I don't know which site would be most appropriate, but its clear the list needs some severe trimming. [[User:Oldelpaso|Oldelpaso]] 08:59, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
[[fa:سیریلیک]]
 
[[fr:Alphabet cyrillique]]
== The most successful English football team ==
[[ga:Aibítir Choireallach]]
 
[[gd:Aibidil Cirillach]]
: ''statistically the most successful English football team to date''
[[gl:Alfabeto cirílico]]
 
[[ko:키릴 문자]]
Undoubtedly we need to cite a source to support this claim? --[[User:Pkchan|Pkchan]] 07:16, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
[[hr:Ćirilica]]
 
[[id:Aksara Sirilik]]
: Any book with facts and figures on football league/premiership clubs ought to prove that. --[[User:Stevefarrell|Stevefarrell]] 23:24, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
[[is:Kýrillískt letur]]
 
[[it:Alfabeto cirillico]]
::It is an undisputed fact. See [[The_Football_League#Titles_by_club|Titles by club]] as well as [[European_Cup_and_Champions_League_finals#Overall_Statistics|European Cup and Champions League finals Overall Statistics]] and [[Liverpool_F.C.#Honours|Liverpool F.C. Honours]]. These links are cited in the article and the facts contained in many others. [[User:Alias Flood|Alias Flood]] 00:45, 3 April 2006 (UTC)
[[he:אלפבית קירילי]]
 
[[ka:კირილიცა]]
== Famous Fans / Managers Section ==
[[sw:Kikyrili]]
I noticed that recently the section has been changed regarding the table and its format. I don't know whether its intentional but its really messy. Anyone want to revert it or fix it? [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 07:58, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
[[ht:Alfabèt sirilik]]
 
[[la:Abecedarium Cyrillicum]]
== B"renitez era / End of 2005-6 Season ==
[[lv:Kirilica]]
 
[[lt:Kirilica]]
My brief summary of Liverpool's present position has been deleted '''three times''' now without any attempt at compromise. I have replaced it once again, in good faith, believing it to be relevant to the article.
[[hu:Cirill írás]]
 
[[mk:Кирилица]]
Liverpool are poised to break the 70 point barrier for only the third time in its premiership history. Indeed, it will be only the second time since the Premiership was reduced to 38 games. On top of this, the team is situated in 3rd place and certainly look likely to finish within the top four.
[[nl:Cyrillisch alfabet]]
 
[[ja:キリル文字]]
Following last year's disappointing Premiership performance and the problems of finishing fifth without automatic Champions League qualification, especially with only five games left to play, it does not seem too early to mention this in the article. This is not a running commentary of the nature where it would be meaningless within the first few weeks of a season. It is relevant and of interest.
[[no:Det kyrilliske alfabetet]]
 
[[nn:Det kyrilliske alfabetet]]
Rather than coninue with this [[Wikipedia:Edit war|edit war]], please propose a compromise rather than continue with this [[Wikipedia:Three-revert_rule#Intent_of_the_policy|persistent revision]]. - [[User:Alias Flood|Alias Flood]] 22:44, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
[[nrm:A b c Cyrillique]]
 
[[pl:Cyrylica]]
:This paragraph was vandalised 7 April at 11:45 by [[User:88.109.212.14|88.109.212.14]] ([[User talk:88.109.212.14|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/88.109.212.14|contribs]]) and then deleted 11 minutes later by [[User:212.158.75.199|212.158.75.199]] ([[User talk:212.158.75.199|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/212.158.75.199|contribs]]). Most strange ...
[[pt:Alfabeto cirílico]]
 
[[ro:Alfabetul chirilic]]
I have reinstated it. - [[User:Alias Flood|Alias Flood]] 19:01, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
[[ru:Кириллица]]
 
[[sq:Alfabeti cirilik]]
:: I have personally deleted on occasions for the main reason that Wikipedia isn't a season summary for your team. This isn't a fans page. Its an encyclopedia that should be informative. Having a season summary is messy and requires constant maintenance, thats why normally only significant events are cited. These thing should be saved for an article that reviews the season, but they shouldn't be in the main article. [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 08:20, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
[[simple:Cyrillic alphabet]]
 
[[sk:Cyrilika]]
::: I agree with Jamie. &ndash; <font face="fixedsys">[[User:Johan Elisson|Elisson]]</font> [[Special:Contributions/Johan Elisson|•]] <font face="fixedsys">[[User talk:Johan Elisson|Talk]]</font> 10:02, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
[[cu:Словѣньска азъбѹкы]]
 
[[sl:Cirilica]]
::::As three days had passed with no comment, I was concerned that we might not have the opportunity to discuss this. It is doubly fortunate, therefore, that you both respond in unison on the same day. I am fully aware of what [[Wikipedia:Five pillars|Wikipedia is]] and [[Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not|what it is not]], hence my links in my first comment under this heading and my subsequent links here and now so that we may all be on equal footing, as all editors should be. This should also be reflected by the fact that rather than continue [[Wikipedia:Edit war|edit wars]], I asked for dialogue to take place on the Talk Page due to [[User:JamieStapleton|JamieStapleton]]'s [[Wikipedia:Three-revert_rule#Intent_of_the_policy|persistent revisions]]. Whilst I agree that Wikipedia should not be used to give a blow by blow account of each sporting event and risk becoming an online scores reporting repository, I do see genuine merit in an article being up to date and reflecting significant events as they happen. There is no need to wait until the end of a season to say that a team has reached its best/second best position in ten years and could possibly reach its best position ever in a particular league. Such events must surely be of interest as well as being significant and germane. In this light, I find it hard to agree to a revert. Again I ask if you can suggest a compromise? [[User:Alias Flood|Alias Flood]] 00:34, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
[[sr:Ћирилица]]
 
[[sh:Ćirilica]]
:::::The reason i edited was because no comment on the talk page was made to say what the changes were and why. You can't ask for open discussion when things are reverted and not have any when things are added. New additions to the article should really be proposed and discussed before adding. See [[Wikipedia:Avoiding_common_mistakes]]
[[fi:Kyrillinen kirjaimisto]]
 
[[sv:Kyrilliska alfabetet]]
:::::Going on to your new paragraph it really looks out of place and is stating miscellaneous facts that don't need to be in the article. It reads more like a newspaper column. Significance is something that will be remembered in future years, i don't think Liverpools current league standing and their future semi-final opponents is something significant. These facts as said before can be included in a season review at the end of the season, but nothing is stopping the season review being generated now and linked from the main page. I see this as an adaquate compromise, as does [[User:Johan Elisson|Elisson]]. Hope this helps. [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 08:51, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
[[tl:Alpabetong Siriliko]]
 
[[tt:Kirill älifbası]]
::::::Before responding here, I have looked at a few other clubs on my 'watchlist' and there appears to be little consistency in this respect when taken at random. Some give details of present performance and others do not, all to greater and lesser degrees.
[[th:อักษรซีริลลิก]]
 
[[tr:Kiril alfabesi]]
::::::Without mentioning the present position of a club (on this occasion), I feel that we sell the reader short. If I came fresh to this article, I would want to know about “now” as well as the past accolades. I would want to know about present form and league position and whether the club was improving and contesting, or declining and struggling, especially as the season draws to a close. The present time may be dwarfed, or indeed forgotten, by future events but that does not make it of any less value to someone reading it now.
[[uk:Кирилиця]]
 
[[zh:西里尔字母]]
::::::I appreciate that we both feel strongly about this but I would like us to go forward in agreement as I believe that we both have the best interests of Wikipedia at heart. To this end, I propose my own compromise of including a brief reference under [[Liverpool_F.C.#Premiership_performance|Liverpool's Premiership performance]]. Can we agree on this, please? - [[User:Alias Flood|Alias Flood]] 23:57, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
 
Well currently the proposed compromise is 2:1 against yours. But in the light of civility and wikipedia I have proposed this matter to Wikiproject: Football for opinions on the matter. Mainly opinions regarding whether running season commentary should be included in '''any clubs''' main article. This should provide better scope to the matter. Until this has been resolved I will remove the commentary. Bear with the process. [[User:JamieStapleton|Jamie]] 19:19, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 
:Unfortunately, it seems that you were more keen on canvassing opinion in your own favour than presenting the facts accurately, i.e. inclusion of a paragraph on this team having reached the 70 point mark for only the second time in 10 seasons and only the third time since the introduction of the Premier League. I have now pointed that discussion to this page. Statements implying that I was adding ''"who the game is against"'' as well as adding a ''"running commentary"'' do little to bring this matter forward. - [[User:Alias Flood|Alias Flood]] 20:45, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
 
::I have just found that this information, i.e. Liverpool reaching the 70 point mark for only the second time in 10 seasons, has been cited as a "significant landmark" and can be found at [http://icliverpool.icnetwork.co.uk/0500liverpoolfc/0100news/tm_objectid=16906736&method=full&siteid=50061&headline=benitez--reds-on-landmark-course-name_page.html Benitez' Reds on landmark course]. As this is [[Wikipedia:Verifiability|verifiable]], are there still objections? - [[User:Alias Flood|Alias Flood]] 21:27, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
:::I just looked up Liverpool's league history, and they have reached 70 or more points on 14 occasions since 3 points for a win was introduced in 1981-82, ten of those consecutively [http://www.liverpool-mad.co.uk/footydb/loadlghs.asp], so I don't think it is particularly remarkable. The current season already takes up more of the article than [[Bob Paisley]]'s entire tenure. A worthwhile question to ask when an article already has a long history section (and daughter article) is "Will this event be regarded as notable in ten years time?", which I don't regard as being true here. [[User:Oldelpaso|Oldelpaso]] 09:33, 14 April 2006 (UTC)
 
==Catholic??==
So the page states ''Liverpool is mainly considered a Catholic club''. Oh? I'm a bloody atheist and I support them. The only real link with Celtic is they sing our song. I'd say that Liverpool is mainly secular, and frankly religion just doesn't get involved. I don't know of any religious songs regularly sung, the players are mixed denominations, the fans are from all backgrounds. The only reason I haven't deleted that entire sentence (typo on prominent included) is that some muppet would just revert it. Please, take religious aggrandising elsewhere. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:81.104.228.185|81.104.228.185]] ([[User talk:81.104.228.185|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/81.104.228.185|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><!-- [Template:Unsigned] -->
 
: Does it? I reverted that edit (along with another) almost an hour ago. &ndash; <font face="fixedsys">[[User:Johan Elisson|Elisson]]</font> [[Special:Contributions/Johan Elisson|•]] <font face="fixedsys">[[User talk:Johan Elisson|Talk]]</font> 20:35, 23 April 2006 (UTC)