Talk:Küstrin and Dragon (Inheritance): Difference between pages

Revision as of 06:40, 12 May 2006

Revision as of 03:16, 8 March 2007

Line 1:

{{otheruses4|Dragons in the [[Inheritance trilogy]]|Dragons in general|Dragon}}

==Rewrite==

{{fiction}}

'''Dragons''' are an intelligent race that inhabit [[Alagaësia]], a fictional [[fantasy (genre)|fantasy world]] created by [[Christopher Paolini]]. They are a key part of the ''[[Inheritance Trilogy]]'', in which dragons are a nearly extinct and magical race.

{{spoiler}}

It's no longer the Kingdom of Prussia, it's no longer in Germany, and it's no longer called Custrin. Other than that, the article may, for all I know, be accurate. --[[User:Stemonitis|Stemonitis]] 12:56, 18 October 2005 (UTC)

== Overview ==

:Agreed. I have looked and there is no municipality in Germany by this name. It's in Poland: [[Kostrzyn nad Odrą]]

Dragons have lived in [[Alagaësia]] since ancient times with the [[Alagaësia#Dwarves|Dwarves]]. The skin of a Dragon is nearly impenetrable, though the thin membrane of the wings can be easily pierced. Their scales glitter like gems, although each Dragon only has one scale color. They also have the same eye color as their scales, and their teeth and neck spikes are bone white. The Dragons breath flame the color of their scales, and some can impressively hold the flame for over an hour. The older the dragon grows, the longer they can hold the flame. They never stop growing until their death.

[[Image:Eragon_Saphira_Poster.jpg|250px|thumb|300px|Saphira, the dragon protagonist of the series, as shown in the [[Eragon (film)|film version]] of ''Eragon''.]]

Since the Dragons are bound to Alagaësia, they possess magical properties. Strange things seem to happen around Dragons - people live longer, the earth changes, and things of that nature, yet no one knows how it happens. It is possible these things happen because the Dragon's magic, which permeates every inch of their body. They cannot willingly use their magic, except for their fire. However, when using magic, their strength is unparalleled.

== History ==

:Doing 1911 articles vis-a-vis changed borders is dangerous, if only that they get ripped apart immediately, by a merge template or a suggestion for immediate deletion.

Before the formation of the Dragon Riders, a young elf hunted and killed a dragon like it was a common animal. The Dragons banded together and furiously attacked the Elves, leading into war.

Five years into the war, an Elf called [[Eragon I|Eragon]] found a white Dragon egg and raised the hatchling within, naming him Bid'Daum ; it was they who stopped the war, allowing peace to follow. In order to prevent another war, the Dragons connected their souls with the Elves, changing both races. Dragons gained the use of language and other trappings of civilization, as well as becoming less fierce. Since Humans came afterwards, the Human Riders were never affected by the Dragons as greatly as the Elves were.

:Anyway. The article has to acknowledge [[List of subcamps of Sachsenhausen]], see [[Sachsenhausen]].

== As mounts for Dragon Riders ==

I've now attempted to bring this up to date (part in Poland, tiny part in Germany, mostly destroyed). Can someone please research and merge the concentration camp material? -- [[User:The Anome|The Anome]] 14:55, 27 November 2005 (UTC)

The few Humans and Elves who ride Dragons like the Elf [[Eragon I]] are aptly called [[Dragon Riders]]. Dragons give their Riders "shining palms," a silver mark, or the "[[gedwey ignasia]]" as a result of the first physical contact between rider and dragon. Dragons communicate telepathically with their Riders, and house incredible magic that can combine with that of the Rider. Dragons are immortal and can also allow their Riders to be nearly immortal; old age will seldom kill them, although wounds or poison can. Over time the link between the dragon and rider will change the rider's appearance.

== major dragons==

{{in-universe}}

== Article names ==

{{Inheritance Character box|

Any objections to moving this article to [[Küstriner Vorland]], as "[[Küstrin]]" should really link to [[Kostrzyn nad Odrą]]? [[User:Olessi|Olessi]] 04:18, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

image= [[Image:eldest2japan.jpg|200px]]<br><small>Glaedr as painted by [[John Jude Palencar]] on the cover of the second Japanese volume of ''Eldest''||

:Leave it as it is. Küstrin is a ruined fort city that was never rebuilt, and is not the same as Kostrzyn. The related part in Germany is called Küstrin-Kietz, and in the GDR this was usually just Kietz. The Vorland is a region, not a specific settlement, and this should be rephrased. [[User:ProhibitOnions|ProhibitOnions]] 05:03, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

name=Glaedr|

::Then should the history found at [[Kostrzyn nad Odrą]] be at [[Küstrin]] instead? The German wiki has articles at [[de:Kostrzyn nad Odrą]], [[de:Küstrin]], and [[de:Küstriner Vorland]]. [[User:Olessi|Olessi]] 05:27, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

gender=Male|

:::I'd follow the German example. While former German placenames should not be used for article names, Küstrin is an exception, when we're talking about the ruins; it is not the same thing as Kostrzyn (which was formerly Küstrin-Neustadt). The Poles generally refer to the ruins as Küstrin, not Kostrzyn. The Küstriner Vorland (and Küstrin-Kietz) is in a different country, and would have its own article under any circumstances. Regards, [[User:ProhibitOnions|ProhibitOnions]] 12:01, 13 April 2006 (UTC)

hair=none|

eyes=Gold|

race=[[dragons (Inheritance)|Dragon]]|

loyalty=[[Oromis (character)|Oromis]]|

appearance=''Eldest''|}}

{{spoiler}}

::::The example of German Wikipedia should not be followed in this case, since their [[:de:Küstrin]] and [[:de:Kostrzyn nad Odrą]] articles are essentially duplicates of each other, which is bad practice, and something we should avoid. I would have nothing against an article under [[Küstrin]] devoted solely to the ruins of the old town. Nevertheless, the main article containing most of the information about the city and its history should be under [[Kostrzyn nad Odrą]]. Another possibility would be to have [[Küstrin]] as a short disambig page, which would simply state that this was a German city before 1945 which was divided into various parts, which it would then list, with appropriate links.

'''Glaedr''' (Pronounced Glay-Dur) is a male golden [[Dragon (Inheritance)|dragon]] in [[Christopher Paolini]]'s ''[[Inheritance (trilogy)|Inheritance Trilogy]]''. He first appears in ''[[Eldest]]'', the second book of the trilogy. His [[Dragon Riders|Rider]] is [[Oromis]], who also is called ''Osthato Chetowä''—"The Mourning Sage" and ''Togira Ikonoka'' - "The Cripple Who Is Whole."

::::Let me also note that I would guess the common name used for the ruins of Kustrin by Poles would be Stary Kostrzyn (Old Kostrzyn), per [http://www.opoka.org.pl/biblioteka/I/IC/kostrzyn0.html],[http://www.stary-kostrzyn.website.pl/]. But of course I don't live there so that's just a guess based on web searching. [[User:Balcer|Balcer]] 04:54, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

:::::I meant the German division of articles should be followed, not the German text, which is pretty weak. I live nearby and have been to the ruins many times, and in my experience they are usually referred to as Küstrin in Polish as well, inasmuch as it's seen as a historic site (a more famous example being Auschwitz vs. Oświęcim). However, the county is Kostrzyn, the passport stamps at the border crossing 300 m away read Kostrzyn, and of course the municipality, the former Küstrin Neustadt, is also known as this. (And never mind the fact that Küstrin was also formerly written Cüstrin). This is why I would, more or less, follow the German article distribution:

:::::*'''Küstrin''' for the former small Prussian/German city that was destroyed in 1945, and for the ruins today;

:::::*'''Kostrzyn''' for the present-day Polish municipality, founded 1945, and for previous history of Küstrin-Neustadt;

:::::*'''Küstriner Vorland''' for the district in Germany containing the small community Küstrin-Kietz, known as Kietz in the GDR, which was formerly part of Küstrin (although the Vorland was not, despite what the English article currently states). Alternatively, write an article about '''Küstrin-Kietz''' and link this, rather than Küstriner Vorland, to the other two articles.

:::::In any event, linking Küstrin to Küstriner Vorland would be a mistake, because a Vorland is a region near or preceding something, but not coterminous with it. [[User:ProhibitOnions|<span style="color:white;background:#700">&nbsp;<span style="background:#800">Pr<span style="background:#900">oh<span style="background:#a00">ib<span style="background:#b00">it<span style="background:#c00"><b>O</b></span><b>ni</b></span><b>o</b></span><b>n</b></span><b>s</b></span>&nbsp;</span>]] ^{<font size="-2">[[User talk:ProhibitOnions|(T)]]</font>} 11:20, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Glaedr is the oldest dragon in the trilogy, senior even to Galbatorix's black dragon [[Shruikan]]. He is three times larger than Saphira, the [[Eragon|main character's]] dragon. Like his Rider, Glaedr is disabled——his left foreleg is nothing but a white stump in place. Glaedr and Oromis live in Du Weldenvarden, a forest in the north of [[Alagaesia]], the world in which the trilogy takes place. The two hid during [[The Fall (Inheritance)|The Fall]] when the dragon riders and dragons were being killed by a rebellious rider named [[Galbatorix]], for if Glaedr and Oromis had died before one of the remaining dragon eggs had hatched, then there would be no one left to pass on the secrets to the new Rider.

::::::I wonder though, to what extent can Küstrin and Küstrin Neustadt be treated as separate towns with separate histories before [[1945]]? Was there a formal division of this kind? And if they were not separate urban entities, their history should be discussed in one place. That place is naturally the article about the town which continues the traditions of the ubran entity, in this case Kostrzyn.[[User:Balcer|Balcer]] 13:09, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Oromis and Glaedr tutored the young riders [[Morzan]] and [[Brom (Inheritance)|Brom]].

:::::::If the two towns are seperate from each other they should be listed in seperate articles.

--[[User:Molobo|Molobo]] 13:25, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

Sure, this should be two separate articles, just like [[Görlitz]] and [[Zgorzelec]]. I like [[User:ProhibitOnions|ProhibitOnions]]'s argument here. [[User:Kusma|Kusma]] [[User_talk:Kusma|(討論)]] 13:40, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

==Role==

:Not really the same situation at all, as obviously [[Görlitz]] is a city existing today on German territory. The old Küstrin is a section of Kostrzyn/Küstrin, now in ruin, on Polish territory. There is no town called Küstrin on the German side of the border today.

In ''[[Eldest]]'', Glaedr becomes [[Saphira]]'s teacher and the object of her affections. Oromis trains Saphira's Rider, [[Eragon (character)|Eragon]]. [[Saphira]] thinks that Glaedr will be her mate, but he rejects her. In this, Glaedr and Saphira have a fight which Saphira starts by scratching Glaedr in the right forleg. Glaedr respondes by biting Saphira in the thigh. Glaedr believes that the young female is meant for one of the unhatched dragon eggs. Later, on [[Eragon]]'s advice, Saphira apologizes to Glaedr.

:Anyway, in the past there have been proposals to have two separate articles, for example , [[Breslau]], for everything pertaining to that town before 1945, and [[Wroclaw]] for everthing after 1945. That approach has not been adopted, in English Wikipedia at least. Let's not implement it here. [[User:Balcer|Balcer]] 13:56, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

== Role in the Inheritance Trilogy ==

:Google Maps has [http://maps.google.com/?ll=52.58386,14.625893&spn=0.135592,0.322037&t=h&om=1] high resolution satellite photos] and maps of the area, in case anyone is interested.[[User:Balcer|Balcer]] 14:05, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

In the events of the ''[[Inheritance Trilogy]]'', there are Dragons on each side of the war - [[Galbatorix]] houses one green unhatched Dragon egg and his own Dragon, [[Shruikan]]; under Galbatorix's control is [[Murtagh]] and his dragon [[Thorn (Inheritance)|Thorn]]. Fighting against Galbatorix for the [[Varden]] is [[Eragon (character)|Eragon]] and his dragon [[Saphira]], the last female dragon. Another Dragon is [[Glaedr]], who is the Dragon of [[Oromis]], the oldest remaining Rider, who is an Elf.

So far, the only dragon colors known are green (new dragon-unknown rider), blue ([[Saphira]] - [[Eragon (character)|Eragon]], [[Brom (Inheritance)|Brom]]), red ([[Thorn (Inheritance)|Thorn]] - [[Murtagh]]) and, we can assume [[Morzan]] since riders swords are the same color as their dragon), gold ([[Glaedr]] - [[Oromis]]), black ([[Shruikan]] - [[Galbatorix]]), white ([[Bid'Daum]] - Eragon the elf), brown (Mentioned by the elf Rhunon and[[ Brom]] tells [[Eragon]] that [[Miremel]] was brown), and purple (Mentioned by CP in an interview).

''The old Küstrin is a section of Kostrzyn/Küstrin, now in ruin, on Polish territory. There is no town called Küstrin on the German side of the border today''

Here is a chart of the known dragons and their riders.

Then there is no problem. We can have article for the Polish city after 1945 in seperate article.

Dragons Rider Color

--[[User:Molobo|Molobo]] 14:34, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

#Unknown / Unknown / Green

:Just curious, do you now support this approach for all Polish cities which were part of Germany before 1939? [[User:Balcer|Balcer]] 14:50, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

#Thorn /Murtagh /Red

#Saphira (2) / Eragon (2) / Blue

#Saphira (1) / Brom / Blue

#Shrukian / Galbatorix /Black

#Glaedr / Oromis /Gold

#Bid'daum /Eragon (1) / White

#Unknown but probaly also named Thorn / Morzan / Red

#lormungr / Unknown / Unknown

#vervada / none / Unknown

The (1) indicates the First Eragon or Saphira- the original rider and Brom's dragon and the (2) indicates the main character Eragon in the first and second book.

Here is a list of all the other known dragons mentioned by Brom in book 1 (Eragon):

I read more on the history on the city and it seems that till XIII century it was part of Poland and had influence on Polish history. Thus the information on history of Kostrzyn should be merged to Kostrzyn nad Odrą.

--[[User:Molobo|Molobo]] 19:04, 11 May 2006 (UTC)

#Jura

::And how about a similar solution to the one we adopted at [[Cieszyn]]? ''<font color="#990011">//</font>''[[User:Halibutt|Halibu]][[User talk:Halibutt|tt]] 05:10, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

#Fundor (Who fought the giant sea snake)

#Galzra

#Briam

#Ohen the Strong

#Gretiem

#Beroan

#Roslarb

#Vanilor (male)

#Eridor (male)

#Ingothold (male)

#Miremel (female, brown dragon)

#Opheila (female)

#Lenora (female)

[[Category:Fictional dragons]]

:::Could you be more specific? In my opinion, since there is no town of Küstrin on the German side of the border across from Kostrzyn, the [[Cieszyn]]/[[Český Těšín]] comparison does not fit too well. To be more specific, the whole [[:de:Küstriner Vorland]], the Gemeinde/Commune/Gmina opposite Kostrzyn, has 2,953 inhabitants, so Küstrin-Kietz, the part of the city which remained on the German side after 1945, must have even less, and does not even rate an article in the German Wikipedia. For comparison, Kostrzyn has 17,620 inhabitants. Thus there can be no talk of any symmetry, as in the [[Cieszyn]]/[[Český Těšín]] case. [[User:Balcer|Balcer]] 05:56, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

Saphira's parents were Iormunger and Vervada. Iormunger was a rider's dragon but Vervada was a wild female dragon who only gave 1 egg to the riders.

::I mean a nifty table organizing the articles. At Cieszyn/whatever we have separate articles on both towns, one on their history and two on the historical region. Here we could prepare the following:

{{inheritance}}

::# Kostrzyn for the actual town

::# Kustrin-Kietz for the remainder on the other side

::# History of Kostrzyń and Kustrin for... you guessed it

::# Kustriner Vorland and for the historical region

::At the same time we should try to keep as much of common history in the article on city's history, not to repeat it everywhere. In short, I do not propose to create/delete any articles, just limit their scope and reorganize their relations to each other. How about that? ''<font color="#990011">//</font>''[[User:Halibutt|Halibu]][[User talk:Halibutt|tt]] 06:31, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[[it:Drago (trilogia dell'eredità)]]

:::One thing I should point out about Küstrin-Kietz is that it is not terribly close to the Polish border (and thus to the ruins of Küstrin or the town of Kostrzyn); it is a separate village a couple of kilometers away that happened to once fall under the jurisdictional boundary of Küstrin. It's hardly a divided city, like Gubin/Guben or Görlitz/Zgorzelec. [[User:ProhibitOnions|<span style="color:white;background:#700">&nbsp;<span style="background:#800">Pr<span style="background:#900">oh<span style="background:#a00">ib<span style="background:#b00">it<span style="background:#c00"><b>O</b></span><b>ni</b></span><b>o</b></span><b>n</b></span><b>s</b></span>&nbsp;</span>]] ^{<font size="-2">[[User talk:ProhibitOnions|(T)]]</font>} 06:40, 12 May 2006 (UTC)

[[Category:Inheritance Trilogy characters]]

[[Category:Fictional magic users]]