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==[[Stove]]==
{{WPBiography|living=yes|class=start|importance=}}
*Please do not deliberately introduce incorrect information into articles{{{{{subst|}}}#if:{{{1|}}}|, as you did to [[:{{{1}}}]]}}. It is considered [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalism]]. If you would like to experiment, use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. Thank you.<!-- Template:verror2 --> [[User:JuJube|JuJube]] 04:01, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
== Notability ==
I just saw that a previous attempt at this page (which I have not seen) was deleted a few weeks ago. So I'd like to make a case for the notability:
[[Image:Nuvola_apps_important.svg|25px]] Please stop. If you continue to [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalize]] Wikipedia{{{{{subst|}}}#if:Yo-yo|, as you did to [[:Yo-yo]]}}, you will be [[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocked]] from editing. {{{2|}}}<!-- {{uw-vandalism3}} --> --[[User:Roswell native|Roswell native]] 03:21, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
1. Coverage in the press: as noted in the article and can be verified (with google) there have been several distinct (i.e., authors doing their own interviews, as opposed to re-reporting or just going off what they can find on the net) articles in the mainstream press.
[[Image:Nuvola_apps_important.svg|25px]] Please stop adding nonsense to Wikipedia{{{{{subst|}}}#if:Yo-yo|, as you did to [[:Yo-yo]]}}. It is considered [[Wikipedia:Vandalism|vandalism]], which under Wikipedia policy, can lead to '''[[Wikipedia:Blocking policy|blocking]]''' of editing privileges. If you would like to experiment again, please use the [[Wikipedia:Sandbox|sandbox]]. {{{2|}}}<!-- {{uw-test3}} -->- [[User:Gilliam|Gilliam]] 23:44, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
2. Poster child: Google comes up with his blog from google(looser foreclosure), i.e., without referencing the name or particulars of the site. So it is not so much that he is particularly noteworthy in the predicament he finds himself in, but that people see him as the poster child representing some of the troubles with the [[housing bubble]].
3. Currency: he is in the news (google news on "casey serin" produces a dozen hits in the past four weeks).
4. Comps: When looking for a similar sort of figure I came across [[Larry Walters]]. Guy who does something stupid, which gets noticed and makes his way (in a small way) into our lore. We are starting a little earlier in the case of Casey.
So I would recommend we develop and maintain the page and then look back after the dust settles and see if there is longer-term notability, or if it is really just a flash in the pan. I suspect the encyclopedic importance will be the symbolic role he is playing by being able to put a name and face to some of the shady dealings that take place during a bubble.
-- [[User:JakeVortex|Jake]] 23:20, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
:I'll second that. [[User:AaronWL|AaronWL]] 09:21, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
== TODO ==
1. A little more on the deals to lead into how they lead to trouble. Cash back loans. Stated income or "Liar loans".
2. The blogging angle: running commentary about the legality of his actions and if he is going to jail. Blog taken down briefly then put back up (cat was already out of the bag).
3. A little more background on earlier [[Ponzi scheme]]s? Or not, they weren't very notable and most Bios try to take a positive tone about the subject except as warranted otherwise. Hmm.
== Someone should add a section on Serin Denial ==
Is there any evidence that Casey actually exists? It is simply not possible that this obviously character is a real person. Yes, there is a name on some real estate records, but that's common fodder for internet trolls.
Take a look at his blog today -- it's an obvious troll/advertisement.
: maybe in section on common themes in the posts/comments. Most folks who have checked out the facts against public records seem to think it checks out. Not that much of the behavior isn't hard to believe.... [[User:JakeVortex|Jake]] 22:18, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
[[User:200.38.162.21|200.38.162.21]] 00:18, 28 February 2007 (UTC)I still can't believe Casey is for real. He sounds too dumb / silly / stupid to be so. I believe he's part of a viral campaign.
I sympathize with your skepticism, but all the available facts support his story. If there is a real Casey Serin who is being exploited by trolls, it's extraordinarily unlikely that he would have remained silent until now given the vilification being heaped upon him. As soon as the USA Today story broke (now several months ago), he'd have been trying to clear his name.
== Personal Info ==
Since this is a [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons|biography of a living person]] we should respect his wishes to keep his family out of the public discussion. Since they don't figure into his notoriety (at least by name), I have removed the name of his wife. [[User:JakeVortex|Jake]] 22:18, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
:You mean [http://static.flickr.com/55/140165199_5a33c92c4c_o.jpg Galina?]. Her involvement in his <s>schemes</s> real estate purchases is a matter of public record. He has made no concerted effort to protect her privacy. --[[User:PeterMarkSmith|PeterMarkSmith]] 07:27, 15 February 2007 (UTC)
:He may have bungled in keeping her name out of the public record, but he has made an effort to keep her name off his blog and out of the news. --[[User:JakeVortex|Jake]]
:Yeah, you mean Galina Suprun Serin? She also signed on the dotted line. Are you one of Casey's sociopathic cronies, Jake? - whatevermyipis @ 10:49 PM EST, 3/1/2007.
::Yes, that is who we are talking about. No, I have never met Casey, but following along the train wreck that is his blog.
Jake, please stop deleting Galina's name out of the Casey Serin article. I'll cut and paste what I wrote on Exurban Nation:
<blockquote>First of all, only her name and birthday is listed -- hardly some tell-all exposé. Secondly, she isn't some random figure whose information is put up just so we can harass her. She's clearly involved in this whole saga, from the signing of documents, to the attempted re-habbing of the houses, to taking the guru classes, to appearing at the recent foreclosure auction. Thirdly, as pointed out on the "Talk" page, Casey makes no effort to hide her identity. Every "hater" on the internet knows who she is. Please stop deleting her name... rant off, thanks.</blockquote> -- signed, "Benoit"
We don't each have a page of everything we do that is public record. I am going by the information on [[Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons|biography of a living person]]:
:''Biographies of living people must be written conservatively and with due regard to the subject's privacy.''
:''In borderline cases, the rule of thumb should be "do no harm". Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a tabloid. It is not our job to be sensationalist, or to be the primary vehicle for the spread of titillating claims about people's lives.''
His wife isn't in the newspaper articles, and isn't on his blog, and isn't part of his notoriety. He has been pretty clear about his desire to have his family "left out of it", he is a living person, and the guidelines I just quoted are rather clear. I personally don't really care, and you are certainly welcome to do what you want on your own blog, etc. I am just trying to keep this encyclopedic.
I am willing to concede that she is involved, but is not as notable (37 vs 28,000 hits on google). Perhaps a compromise would be to call out that she is referred to as G on the blog, and Casey has made efforts to keep her and his family out of the press, but her name is part of the public record. --[[User:JakeVortex|Jake]] 18:53, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
== reactions ==
I think we may need another section for stuff like: http://www.freewebs.com/creepyoldman/CaseyChart.html, http://exurbannation.blogspot.com/ and http://iamnotfacingforeclosure.com that are outgrowths or reactions to Casey's site.
I'm not inspired at the moment for the right way to approach this with an encyclopedic tone. [[User:JakeVortex|Jake]] 03:34, 23 January 2007 (UTC)
: There was already a reference to the "hater sites" in Criticisms, so I added links to those. I didn't add the chart separately, because it's available on exurbannation. [[User:66.30.12.137|66.30.12.137]] 08:41, 6 March 2007 (UTC)
==Jamba juice==
Who cares that he likes jamba juice? This is an encyclopedia
:Reply - This is actually extremely relevant to the Casey story, ever since he posted his bank statement online last October or thereabouts, which revealed that despite being millions of dollars in debt, he was still a regular Jamba Juice customer. Since then, 'Jamba Juice' has become a recurring catchphrase on Casey's blog, usually to symbolise something that he cannot realistically afford, but which he still feels entitled to. And acknowledging this in his Wikipedia entry will also explain the multiple references for the benefit of newcomers. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/86.137.196.166|86.137.196.166]] ([[User talk:86.137.196.166|talk]]) 13:47, 27 January 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
::I agree with the changes, earlier the Jamba Juice was included as "Casey is blablabla, lives with his wife. He likes Jumba Juice". I think it is releveant to explain the connection with the blog though. [[User:OneWorld22|OneWorld22]] 19:13, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
==Site is down==
The site is down as of 3/8/2007. Is the blog done you think? The FBI catch up to him? Or just Casey failing to keep up with his bills? [[User:OneWorld22|OneWorld22]] 22:21, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
:Nah - "Snowflake" (as his fans know him) can't seem to find a reliable free host for it. --[[User:PeterMarkSmith|PeterMarkSmith]] 06:41, 12 March 2007 (UTC)
==3/14/07 Entry About This Article==
Casey has blogged about the wiki page today; I would expect that there will be a lot of people trying to make changes in the upcoming days. Is there a way to get the page protected? [[User:198.144.208.32|198.144.208.32]] 15:02, 14 March 2007 (UTC)Sprezzatura
:The page doesn't need to be protected unless it is being vandalised lots. In that case an admin would need to be found to do so.
:As to casey's post tho he does have a good point about the poor quality of the article. Casey has appeared in lots of papers so it would be good to use more of these as sources rather that his own words. I think the end article will always be seen as a bit negative by Casey unless he does get rich quick soon from some sweet deal! --[[User:J2thawiki|J2thawiki]] 15:41, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
==03/14/07 Flurry of edits expected==
The subject of the entry has complained that the article is not fair. Going so far as to use the word libelous. He's asked "supporters" to edit the content for more balance. The response among critics has been a groundswell of wanting to put up even more information going back to his earliest attempts at fast money using a pryamid scheme mail fraud on the internet. The subject lives in California, a common property State. His debts are his wife's debts. He has even posted the particulars of her outstanding credit issues in a google spreadsheet. He has posted her picture in flickr showing her direct involvement. He has blogged about her attending RE seminars. If the subject is the source of the information there should be no question of privacy.
:Your article is weak and one sided as well as non-factual <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:24.9.124.59|24.9.124.59]] ([[User talk:24.9.124.59|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/24.9.124.59|contribs]]){{#if:16:28, 14 March 2007| 16:28, 14 March 2007|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
==03/14/07 - removal of attempt to use shell corporation==
Serin has admitted that he was/is trying to set up a shell corporation to lend himself money to pay off personal debts. Why was this removed from the "criticism" section?
:It's in the background section. To include it in the criticism section would need a reliable source to someone criticising him for it.--[[User:J2thawiki|J2thawiki]] 17:50, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
==3/14/07 - Do not vandalize the talk pages==
[[User:24.9.124.59|24.9.124.59]] and [[User:12.215.162.213|12.215.162.213]] have removed others' comments from this talk page. Please append your own comments rather than deleting those with which you disagree. I have restored the missing text.[[User:Saranary|Saranary]] 18:33, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
:I reverted a comment back after another user deleted it and replaced it with his own. Is it Wikipedia policy to allow someone's comment to remain after they have vandalized another's comment and replaced it with their own? <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:12.215.162.213|12.215.162.213]] ([[User talk:12.215.162.213|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/12.215.162.213|contribs]]){{#if:19:26, 14 March 2007| 19:26, 14 March 2007|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:: Wikipedia discourages removing others' comments on the talk page, no matter what the justification. Also, please sign your comments with four tildes "~". [[User:129.186.205.84|129.186.205.84]] 20:12, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
==POV issues==
The version of this page posted earlier this morning has POV issues that must be addressed; I see that some of the changes have already been made by other Wikipedians while I had this window open. Among them:
* Reference to Pride Industries employment of mentally disabled people. As this information has little to do with Serin's position, and given the POV issues in the Criticisms section, it seems intended to imply that he is also disabled.
* Criticisms section includes reference to Serin's "Inability to reconcile his purported Christian faith with his actions, particularly his mooching off his family and in-laws."
* Criticisms section includes reference to "Serin's determination to continue as a real estate investor despite his current abject failure in that field."
* Criticisms section includes, "Amazingly, Casey believes that Nouveau Riche University is a credible institution if higher learning."
[[User:Saranary|Saranary]] 18:54, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
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