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m MSGJ moved page Template talk:WPBannerMeta/Archive 11 to Module talk:WikiProject banner/Archive 11: discussion more relevant to module not the wrapper template Tag: Disambiguation links added |
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I would like to add "class = Disambig" to [[Template:WikiProject Disambiguation]] so that all the tools that rely on PageAssessments data (XTools, CopyPatrol, Popular Pages Bot, etc.) will recognize these pages as disambiguation pages (as most of them don't have any other WikiProject banners). However, this would needlessly categorize all of these pages into a new [[:Category:NA-Class Disambiguation articles|NA-Class Disambiguation articles]] category, which would be silly. Is there any way to suppress the creation of class categories (besides not passing a class)? If not, could a way be added? [[User:Kaldari|Kaldari]] ([[User talk:Kaldari|talk]]) 20:27, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
:I rather think that XTools etc. recognise pages as disambig-class by their being in a subcategory of {{cl|Disambig-Class articles}}, and not by the presence of parameters in WikiProject banners. That being the case, here is what I would do:
:#Modify {{tlx|WikiProject Disambiguation}} to have two new lines: <
|class={{class mask |dab|disambig=yes}}</
:#Create {{cl|Disambig-Class Disambiguation articles}} with the following content: <
[[Category:Disambig-Class articles]]</
:After a while, the category will populate. There should be no need to create any other categories. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 15:59, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
::Or instead of step 1, you could add the category to the banner without displaying the class type. <code><nowiki><includeonly>[[Category:Disambig-Class Disambiguation articles]]</includeonly></nowiki></code> -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 20:13, 9 December 2017 (UTC)
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:::::I understand the concern of Lua being opaque to you, but either way—multilevel-transclusion conditional wikitext or Lua—we've got complexity that's excluding ''someone''. We should work on making it so that ''most people'' don't have to deal with the complicated stuff, of course, and I think that this project is in line with that through its design goal of moving "adding support for custom processes" (like A-class reviews) away from weird systems and so on into "just specify some extra properties for the class definition".
:::::I think that our goals synergize well: we both want these systems to be easy to use and well-documented. My approach is just more dramatic, mostly by pushing things from "implement stuff yourself in wikitext" to "use the standard systems the banner module offers". My ''personal'' preference would be that we just force every WikiProject to use only a single standard set of classes and processes—that would give us site-wide consistency at a stroke—but I know that that's not politically feasible. As an alternative, I'm trying to make a system that offers support for custom classes and processes but ''makes them machine-readable'' so that we can deal with them (and yes, presumably ''document'' them) mostly automatically. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">{{[[User:Nihiltres|<span style="color:#233D7A;">Nihiltres</span>]] |[[User talk:Nihiltres|talk]] |[[Special:Contributions/Nihiltres|edits]]}}</span> 17:32, 30 August 2017 (UTC)
::::::OK, here's an example. I've just improved [[Template:WikiProject Libraries/doc]]; whilst doing so, I found an unusual line in [[Template:WikiProject Libraries]]: <
:::::::If that's a desired feature, we could easily implement a parameter check like several templates do, and put out an error message when previewing the results. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">[[User:Headbomb|Headbomb]] {[[User talk:Headbomb|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Headbomb|c]] · [[WP:PHYS|p]] · [[WP:WBOOKS|b]]}</span> 12:20, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
::::::::Parameter checks which display error messages on preview - such as the one that I {{diff|Template:Infobox London station|prev|796859992|recently added}} to {{tlx|Infobox London station}} - are fine if the person adding that check knows what the valid parameters actually are. Once a template has become a module, you no longer know this. You are then dependent upon the module writer to keep the valid parameter list up to date, something which we cannot guarantee will be done, just as we cannot guarantee that those who amend templates will also amend the documentation. Any computer programmer will tell you that fully-documented functions are an ideal that is never achieved. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 12:48, 3 September 2017 (UTC)
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::::{{ping|WOSlinker}} ah ok! Thank you for pointing me to that. It is a bit bass-ackwards, but really appreciate you pointing me to the right place. I figured I was just missing something so thank you much! --'''[[User:Zackmann08|<span style="color:#00ced1">Zack</span><span style="color:#007F94">mann</span>]]''' (<sup>[[User_talk:Zackmann08|Talk to me]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Zackmann08|<span style="color:orange;">What I been doing</span>]]</sub>) 23:22, 3 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Zackmann08}} That's probably why it was deprecated. There's only seems to be about [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Search&limit=50&offset=0&profile=all&search=insource%3A%2F%5C%7C+%2Ainfobox+%2A%5C%3D+%2Ano%2F+hastemplate%3A%22WikiProject+UK+geography%22 38] that need updating to the ''needs-infobox'' parameter format or removing if the infobox is there now. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 08:44, 4 October 2018 (UTC)
== Links from redirects? ==
[[Special:WhatLinksHere/Canadian Open Wireless and Mobile Communications Engineering Journal]] shows that [[Talk:Canadian Open Wireless and Mobile Communications Engineering Journal]] links to [[Canadian Open Wireless and Mobile Communications Engineering Journal]].
However, I can't find any such links on either [[Talk:Canadian Open Wireless and Mobile Communications Engineering Journal]], or {{tl|WP Journals}}. What gives?
Does something in the metabanner need to make use of {{tl|linkless exists}}? Possibly [[Module:Pagetype]]? <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">[[User:Headbomb|Headbomb]] {[[User talk:Headbomb|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Headbomb|c]] · [[WP:PHYS|p]] · [[WP:WBOOKS|b]]}</span> 23:09, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
:{{ping|Headbomb}} Thanks for the ping. The talk page uses {{tl|WikiProject Academic Journals}} which uses {{tl|WPBannerMeta}}. That and its subpages do a few #ifexist: checks but only on pages such as [[WP:WikiProject Academic Journals]], and there's no #invoke: for a direct module call. Those subpages do use several other complex templates which may record a spurious wikilink. I agree that {{tl|Pagetype}} is the most likely candidate. Someone could test that theory by pretending to edit the module and previewing the talk page with the pagetype call removed. (I can't do this myself, as the modules are protected.)
:As you've noticed, [[Module:Linkless]] is currently up for deletion. If done carefully, that could still allow {{tl|linkless exists}} to keep working, but deleting the module-level interface would prevent other modules such as Pagetype from calling it.
:However, I don't think that Linkless can help us here. Pagetype is not just checking for existence but reading the page to find out whether it is, for example, a redirect. I don't know any way to do that without recording a wikilink. Even if we found a way, I'm not sure that it would be a good idea: we do want the talk page banner to update if its counterpart in the main namespace changes type. [[User:Certes|Certes]] ([[User talk:Certes|talk]]) 23:58, 12 October 2018 (UTC)
::Well, ideally, we'd want the banner to update, but without creating a link record. Because that's pretty annoying. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">[[User:Headbomb|Headbomb]] {[[User talk:Headbomb|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Headbomb|c]] · [[WP:PHYS|p]] · [[WP:WBOOKS|b]]}</span> 00:07, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::Sadly, I don't think that's possible. Updating the banner requires the link record. As I understand it, when a page (such as the redirect in main namespace) changes, MediaWiki runs a query similar to "what links here" to work out which other pages depend on it, and updates them. No link means no update. [[User:Certes|Certes]] ([[User talk:Certes|talk]]) 00:51, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
::::It's not possible. --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 01:03, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
:::::At least not until {{phab|T14019}} is dealt with. <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">[[User:Headbomb|Headbomb]] {[[User talk:Headbomb|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Headbomb|c]] · [[WP:PHYS|p]] · [[WP:WBOOKS|b]]}</span> 01:17, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
== Proposed extension to usage of project banners ==
Comments please, on [[Wikipedia:Village pump (idea lab)/Archive 26#Semi-automate DELSORT based on Project tags]]. Thanks, [[User:Cabayi|Cabayi]] ([[User talk:Cabayi|talk]]) 14:10, 31 October 2018 (UTC)
== [[Template:WikiProject Japan]] seems to be suppressing TOCs ==
I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but it seems that the template is blocking TOCs from being displayed unless <nowiki>__TOC__</nowiki> forces the page to show it. See for example [[Talk:Japanese battleship Yamato]], which has an apparently suppressed TOC. All of the project templates except for Japan are at [[Talk:German battleship Bismarck]], where there is no problem with the TOC displaying. I looked at the template, but there's nothing I can see that's causing the problem (though I by no means know what I'm doing). Can anybody take a look? Thanks. [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 13:04, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
:{{ping|Parsecboy}} It's not, if you look in the Todo section of the banner on that page, you'll find the toc there. It's because [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Japan/ToDo]] as sections. If these were replaced with just bolded text then the toc would appear after all the banners. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 16:27, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
::Ah, that would explain it - the sections were added [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:WikiProject_Japan/ToDo&diff=869059642&oldid=678441646 here], but I've reverted them. Thanks. [[User:Parsecboy|Parsecboy]] ([[User talk:Parsecboy|talk]]) 16:34, 19 November 2018 (UTC)
== Protected edit request on 29 March 2019 ==
{{edit fully-protected|Template:WPBannerMeta|answered=yes}}
Like [[Module:Documentation]], this template should automatically sense the protection level of a template and then transclude the proper icon and category - currently, there are almost 20 template-protected wikiproject templates, and likely many more with other protection levels. I don't know how this is implemented, and don't want to try and mess around with something transcluded so heavily. Thanks, --[[User:DannyS712|DannyS712]] ([[User talk:DannyS712|talk]]) 00:18, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
:It certainly can be worked on by anyone, once a sandbox has been validated feel free to reactivate the edit request. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 01:44, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
::It can be added to the [[Template:WPBannerMeta/templatepage]] page. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 08:38, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
::Why is this necessary? Which WikiProject banners are protected (to any level) but have no protection icon at top right? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 14:57, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
:::{{ping|Redrose64}} Eg {{tl|WikiProject Fencing}} --[[User:DannyS712|DannyS712]] ([[User talk:DannyS712|talk]]) 16:07, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
::::{{diff|Template:WikiProject Fencing|prev|890083312|Easy}}. Next? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 23:35, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Redrose64}} I had a list, and put it somewhere. I'll ping you if I find it, but anyway thanks for the help. --[[User:DannyS712|DannyS712]] ([[User talk:DannyS712|talk]]) 23:36, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::{{ping|Redrose64}} {{tl|WikiProject Rowing}}, {{tl|WikiProject Running}}, and {{tl|WikiProject Mixed martial arts}} all have hardcoded move and edit protection templates, as well as categories, that should be moved to documentation subpages. Can you help? --[[User:DannyS712|DannyS712]] ([[User talk:DannyS712|talk]]) 23:39, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
::::::Done, done and done; but if you examine the doc pages that I have created, none of them now have a pp template. It's built in to the core code of {{tlx|documentation}}, so there's no need to move any pp templates - just get rid of them. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 00:38, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
:::::::{{ping|Redrose64}} yeah. I know that documentation automatically adds the icon and stuff, and thats what I wanted to do here (or at the /templatepage page). Thanks, --[[User:DannyS712|DannyS712]] ([[User talk:DannyS712|talk]]) 00:47, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
== Redirect categories ==
How do I modify [[Template:WikiProject Civil Rights Movement]] to allow [[Talk:Whites only]] to register in [[:Category:Redirect-Class Civil Rights Movement articles]]? I am not familiar enough with this type of template to modify it. [[User:Mitchumch|Mitchumch]] ([[User talk:Mitchumch|talk]]) 01:03, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
:Issue fixed. [[User:Mitchumch|Mitchumch]] ([[User talk:Mitchumch|talk]]) 22:20, 8 April 2019 (UTC)
== Weird trailing indent causing excessive whitespace ==
Can someone make the text expand to the full width so it doesn't look like [[:File:Template-WPBannerMeta showing a formatting bug.png|this]]? <b>~</b> <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:16px;">[[User:Tom.Reding|Tom.Reding]] ([[User talk:Tom.Reding|talk]] ⋅[[WP:DGAF|dgaf]])</span> 13:22, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
:{{replyto|Tom.Reding}} Please don't upload Wikipedia screenshots to imgur. My browser takes several minutes to display anything, and then it's the cookie information box which I am obliged to "accept" before I can see anything useful. Even when I have exited the website, my computer slows to a crawl necessitating at the very least close and restart the browser. In the past, my antivirus software has warned me about imgur and I don't want to reboot every time.
:Instead, we have guidance at [[WP:WPSHOT]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:12, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
::{{Ping|Redrose64}} screenshot migrated to commons. Wow, if you don't mind, what browser & antivirus do you use? <b>~</b> <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:16px;">[[User:Tom.Reding|Tom.Reding]] ([[User talk:Tom.Reding|talk]] ⋅[[WP:DGAF|dgaf]])</span> 20:11, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
:::I have occasionally seen WikiProject banners used on talk pages where the text is confined to the left-hand half like that. Sometimes, a [[WP:PURGE]] will fix it; failing that, a [[WP:BYPASS]]. I think that it happens when some of the stylesheets or scripts were not fully processed by your browser. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 20:58, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
::::Unfortunately, neither a purge nor a bypass resolved the issue on Chrome (currently up-to-date: Version 74.0.3729.169 (Official Build) (64-bit)), but both Firefox and IE display normally. <b>~</b> <span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva; font-size:16px;">[[User:Tom.Reding|Tom.Reding]] ([[User talk:Tom.Reding|talk]] ⋅[[WP:DGAF|dgaf]])</span> 21:51, 2 June 2019 (UTC)
Is this on the template page itself? I am unable to reproduce, and I am using Chrome too — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 11:00, 3 June 2019 (UTC)
== Multiple portals ==
Is there an easy way of displaying multiple portals in a WikiProject banner? I've taken a stab at this at [[Template:WikiProject Korea/sandbox]] but it seems like a bit of a hack and I'm not happy with the alignment of the main text. [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 12:33, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
:{{replyto|PC78}} Please see my reply at [[Template talk:WikiProject Amphibians and Reptiles#Template-protected edit request on 9 April 2019]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 12:46, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
::{{ping|Redrose64}} Yes, what I've done is based on the WP Trains banner. I don't like how it aligns the main text at the top rather than in the middle, though. Is there any way to bypass this? [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 13:10, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
::Could be a browser issue, I get this with Firefox but it looks fine using Edge. [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 16:37, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
:::I don't understand what "it aligns the main text at the top rather than in the middle" relates to. Please provide a [[WP:WPSHOT]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:16, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
[[File:WikiProject banner text alignment.png]]
::::Well, it's this. I've had a play around and it seems like it's always there, regardles of browser. The enlarged portal box has made it more pronounced but it otherwise seems to be unrelated. [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 23:27, 13 July 2019 (UTC)
:::::A WikiProject banner is a table, tables have rows, and the top edge of each row cannot be any higher than the bottom edge of the row above, even when there are no visible borders between the rows. In the case of [[Template:WikiProject Korea/sandbox]], the first row is [[:File:Gama2 crop.jpg|the image]], main text and portal box; the second row is the class information. Since the portal box is usually the tallest item in the first row, it governs the height of that row; on narrower screens (or when using high zoom settings) the main text will be the tallest item. You get the same thing happening at [[Talk:Elmers End station]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 00:01, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
::::::Ah-ha, thanks for the explanation. [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 00:15, 14 July 2019 (UTC)
== Lowercase class ==
Please see [[Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2019_July_24#Category:List-Class_articles]] which, if agreed, would require a change to this template. – [[User:Fayenatic london|Fayenatic]] [[User talk:Fayenatic london|'''<span style="color: #FF0000;">L</span>'''ondon]] 12:14, 24 July 2019 (UTC)
== Note size? ==
Does the main template not have individual parameters to set the size of a note image, i.e. {{para|NOTE_1_SIZE}} etc.? From the doc it looks like there is only a single parameter that applies to all notes. Is it therefore necessary to use the note hook if I want to do this? [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 16:34, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
:{{replyto|PC78}} The non-hooked method of setting up a note does indeed restrict you to {{para|NOTE_SIZE}}, for a variant size you do need to use the hook form, {{para|HOOK_NOTE|{{tlf|WPBannerMeta/hooks/notes|...}}}}. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:13, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
::Cheers, I guess I'll have to do that. Is there a reason why the template is set up this way? [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 22:15, 5 August 2019 (UTC)
== Should we maybe hide the importance-rating when an article is classified as "low-importance"? ==
Importance ratings are helpful for categorizing in the project, and the vast majority topics are of low importance, but I do feel a bit mean rating a biography or a well-written article as being "low-importance". I'm wondering if we should maybe just hide the importance rating when set to "low"? It doesn't seem like something that would affect the projects and might be more encouraging than seeing your article marked as being of little importance. – '''[[User:Þjarkur|Thjarkur]]''' [[User talk:Þjarkur#|(talk)]] 14:07, 4 August 2019 (UTC)
:I don't see why we would do that.  <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">[[User:Headbomb|Headbomb]] {[[User talk:Headbomb|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Headbomb|c]] · [[WP:PHYS|p]] · [[WP:WBOOKS|b]]}</span> 15:36, 6 August 2019 (UTC)
== rater-data.js subpages ==
There seem to be a lot of rater-data.js subpages for various WikiProject banners, all I've looked at are unused as far as I can see. Do anyone know about their purpose? Please respond at [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2019 August 31#Template:WikiProject Korea/rater-data.js|the related TfD]] to avoid discussion forking. --[[User:Trialpears|Trialpears]] ([[User talk:Trialpears|talk]]) 06:43, 4 September 2019 (UTC)
== To-do list for task forces? ==
Hi, is there a way to list the to-do pages for task forces? For example, on the [[Template:WPUSA]]? [[User:Funandtrvl|Funandtrvl]] ([[User talk:Funandtrvl|talk]]) 00:14, 27 August 2019 (UTC)
:{{ping|Funandtrvl}} Have you looked at the [[Template:WPBannerMeta/hooks/todolist|/todolist]] hook? But perhaps you are not asking about that. In any case, transcluding large amounts of text of thousands of pages is somewhat discouraged I think, because it can adversely affect page loading times for the benefit of very few editors — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 06:28, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
== Portal links not showing? ==
Looks like the main portal link isn't showing, all banners appear to be affected, e.g. {{tl|WikiProject Japan}}. [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 14:42, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
:Was [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:WPBannerMeta/core&diff=915029858&oldid=774482359 this edit], which I've just undone for now. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 16:42, 14 September 2019 (UTC)
::It looks like there was an extra pipe in the code. {{ul|BrownHairedGirl}} should be slapped with a wet trout for not testing in the sandbox ;) — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 06:25, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
:::Oops! Sorry, @[[User talk:MSGJ|Martin]]. Trouting accepted. --[[User:BrownHairedGirl|<span style="font-variant:small-caps"><span style="color:#663200;">Brown</span>HairedGirl</span>]] <small>[[User talk:BrownHairedGirl|(talk)]] • ([[Special:Contributions/BrownHairedGirl|contribs]])</small> 10:07, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
::::If there is a need for such a check it would probably be more efficient to put some code on [[Template:WPBannerMeta]] rather than in /core. What precipitated that change? — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 11:00, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
== Formatting error? ==
I recently updated the code for {{tl|WikiProject Korea}} and inadvertently placed it in {{cl|WikiProject banners with formatting errors}} under code "N". This was caused by the removal of the <code>TF_n_NAME</code> parameters from {{tl|WPBannerMeta/hooks/taskforces}} which I did because the documentation suggests that they are optional and redundant when <code>TF_n_TEXT</code> is also used. Restoring these parameters has fixed the problem but this looks like a false postive to me. [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 13:28, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
:{{replyto|PC78}} You shouldn't need to use {{para|TF_''n''_TEXT}} if you are using {{para|TF_''n''_NAME}} and {{para|TF_''n''_LINK}} - when {{para|TF_''n''_TEXT}} is present, it completely overrides {{para|TF_''n''_LINK}}; and largely overrides {{para|TF_''n''_NAME}}, but there are certain parts of the code that rely on {{para|TF_''n''_NAME}} being set even when {{para|TF_''n''_TEXT}} is used. IIRC, using {{para|TF_''n''_TEXT}} is an old method that is retained for legacy reasons; if a template already uses {{para|TF_''n''_NAME}} and {{para|TF_''n''_LINK}}, don't switch it over. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:14, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
::Hmm, the banner was already using {{para|TF_''n''_TEXT}} but removing it might simplify the code somewhat; on the other hand, the ability to define custom text seems useful and is not documented as a legacy feature. The banner appeared to be working fine without those parameters but I might just leave it now it's "fixed". [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 22:26, 1 September 2019 (UTC)
{{ping|PC78}} Haven't looked in detail yet, but I think the TF NAME parameter is used for the default text when the banners are nested. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 06:21, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
:No, you're thinking of the {{tl|WPBannerMeta/hooks/tfnested}} hook. I ended up making the change anyway, because the meagre benefits of maintaining custom text were outweighed by the simplification of the banner code. [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 10:47, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
::You're right, but now I remember why the NAME parameter is mandatory - it is used by [[meta:Community Tech/PageAssessments|PageAssessments]] — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 10:53, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
:::The collapsed banner displays {{para|TF_''n''_NESTED}} whether tf hooks are used or not. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 14:41, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
== Auto assess icon ==
{{edit protected|Template:WPBannerMeta/core|answered=yes}}
Could someone please change the following in {{tl|WPBannerMeta/core}}:
|{{WPBannerMeta/note
|IMAGE=Robot icôn.svg
|SIZE=30px
to:
|{{WPBannerMeta/note
|IMAGE=Robot icôn.svg
|SIZE=<nowiki>{{{NOTE_SIZE|}}}</nowiki>
I don't see any reason why the auto assess icon should be handled differently to any other note icon, especially when the rest default to a diferent size. [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 01:00, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
:Yes, that makes sense to me too — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 06:23, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
::{{Re|PC78}} please update in sandbox and validate testcases. If there is a missing test case for this condition, please make one and validate. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 13:49, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
:::{{ping|MSGJ}} A little help? :) I've made changes to {{tl|WPBannerMeta/core/sandbox}} and {{tl|WPBannerMeta/sandbox}} and switched {{tl|WikiProject Biography/sandbox}} over to the sandboxed meta... What am I missing? [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 15:37, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
::::If you tell us where your testcases are, we can look at what is happening. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 18:08, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
:::::Ah... looks like it ''is'' working with the testcase at [[User talk:PC78/test banner]]; what's throwing me is why the change isn't visible at [[Template:WikiProject Biography/sandbox]]. [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 18:12, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
::::::Testcases shouldn't be in a sandbox or in user space, they should be in Template: space - but for templates that are only used in a talk space, such as a WikiProject banner, they need to be in Template talk: space. Also, shey should be in a subpage whose name ends /testcases.
::::::If your primary change is going to be made to [[Template:WikiProject Biography]], the testcases should be at [[Template talk:WikiProject Biography/testcases]]; and if your primary change is going to be made to [[Template:WPBannerMeta]] or [[Template:WPBannerMeta/core]], the testcases should be at [[Template talk:WPBannerMeta/testcases]]. More at [[WP:TESTCASES]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 18:57, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
:::::::None of that should make the slightest bit of difference... however, see test banner at {{tl|WPBannerMeta/testcases}} and transclusion of test banner at [[Template talk:WPBannerMeta/testcases]]. Perhaps I'm being obtuse, but I don't see any other way of testing the code. [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 20:01, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
:::::::Tests at [[Template:WikiProject Biography/testcases]] check out fine — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 20:25, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
::::::::{{replyto|MSGJ}} Why does one from the sandbox have the auto row in a collapsed "More information:" section, whilst the live one has it exposed? Aside from that, does the robot head need to be that big? I thought we usually set the heights of note icons to be consistent. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 21:19, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::Cheers Martin, I'd just got there on my own but I see you beat me to it – that's what I get for trying to rush things at work when I should have done it properly at home! {{ping|Redrose64}} That's exactly what this change will fix, the auto symbol will be handled like all other note icons. As for being collapsed, that depends entirely on the number of notes in the banner and the {{para|COLLAPSED}} setting. [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 22:36, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::The testcase at [[Template:WikiProject Biography/testcases#Auto assess]] uses exactly the same parameters for live and sandbox, therefore it should have exactly the same number of notes, therefore either both should collapse, or neither should. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:48, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
:::::::::::The sandboxed version of {{tl|WikiProject Biography}} is not the same as the live version. [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 22:50, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
::::::::::::[[Template:WPBannerMeta/testcases|Yes! We Have No Bananas]] – Hopefully this constitutes a sufficient test? {{ping|Xaosflux}} Can you please make [[Special:Diff/916370189|this change]] to {{tl|WPBannerMeta/core}}, assuming there are no further concerns? [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 00:37, 19 September 2019 (UTC)
{{ping|Xaosflux}} (or someone else) I think we're good to implement this change now. [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 20:18, 23 September 2019 (UTC)
:Haven't had time to review this yet - of course anyone else may. I will get to it eventually (always working the PERT queues). — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 00:33, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
::{{done}} {{ping|PC78}} this has been done. Anyone should revert without consulting with me if this causes an immediate problem. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 13:01, 24 September 2019 (UTC)
== How about adding FP as a class option? ==
Since it's getting widely used on file pages now, it might be useful to handle Featured pictures gracefully.... Thoughts? <span style="text-shadow:grey 0.118em 0.118em 0.118em; class=texhtml">'''[[User:Adam Cuerden|Adam Cuerden]]''' <sup>([[User talk:Adam Cuerden|talk]])</sup><sub>Has about 6.9% of all [[WP:FP|FPs]]</sub></span> 21:39, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
:We've got FM already, for {{cl|FM-Class articles}}: it can be used by setting {{para|fm|yes}} inside {{tlx|class mask}}. This of course requires either {{para|QUALITY_SCALE|inline}} or {{para|QUALITY_SCALE|subpage}} in the {{tlx|WPBannerMeta}}. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:01, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
::I think there's a case for renaming it FP-Class since it's used exclusively for Featured Pictures. Maybe that's a discussion for [[WP:VP]] though? [[User:PC78|PC78]] ([[User talk:PC78|talk]]) 22:41, 18 September 2019 (UTC)
:::I would suggest leaving it at FM class just in case [[Wikipedia:Featured sounds]] ever gets restarted — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 11:21, 30 September 2019 (UTC)
== What does ¬ do? ==
What does the ¬ character do in this template? Why is it important to use <pre>{{{category|¬}}}</pre> and not <pre>{{{category|}}}</pre>? I am asking because I was having trouble with {{cl|NA-Class Animals in media articles|count=yes}} depopulating after adding a class subpage to {{tl|WikiProject Animals in media}}. I noticed that the ¬s were missing, added them, and the category emptied. --[[User:NessieVL|Nessie]] ([[User talk:NessieVL|talk]]) 19:11, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
:It helps the template to spot the difference between {{para|category}} being present but blank, and being completely absent. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 20:13, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
:It basically tells that whatever has ¬ in it isn't desired. So <pre>{{{category|¬}}}</pre> means 'don't categorize'.  <span style="font-variant:small-caps; whitespace:nowrap;">[[User:Headbomb|Headbomb]] {[[User talk:Headbomb|t]] · [[Special:Contributions/Headbomb|c]] · [[WP:PHYS|p]] · [[WP:WBOOKS|b]]}</span> 20:14, 1 October 2019 (UTC)
== Importance params - undiscussed change ==
{{u|Wugapodes}}, where was {{diff|Template:WPBannerMeta|prev|955070895|this edit}} discussed? I don't even see it in [[Template:WPBannerMeta/sandbox|the sandbox]], so it can't have been tested either. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 20:56, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
:Nowhere, and it wasn't. Having a single parameter that uses a completely different naming scheme from the rest of the parameters is a horrible design, so—assuming editors will expect a consistent naming scheme—we should at least accept the dominant naming scheme as an option. Seemed pretty obviously uncontroversial. It's an alias, so it doesn't break templates that use the idiosyncratic name for this parameter; I've created a parameter alias before, so I didn't feel the need to test that the software still does aliases the way it always has. <span style="white-space: nowrap;">— [[User:Wugapodes|Wug·]][[User talk:Wugapodes|a·po·des]]</span> 21:14, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
::Thanks for starting this discussion Redrose, I have reverted this change. The naming scheme is actually very logical and I see no reason to change it without proper discussion. You will notice that uppercase parameter names are ones defined by the banner template whereas lowercase parameter names are defined at the article level. So the banner templates just pass these through <nowiki>|class={{{class|}}}</nowiki> etc. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 21:30, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
:::That's great for developers but incredibly unintuitive for end users who are using the template. I didn't just make the change on a whim, it's a problem I actually ran into while editing. <span style="white-space: nowrap;">— [[User:Wugapodes|Wug·]][[User talk:Wugapodes|a·po·des]]</span> 21:36, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
::::WPBannerMeta isn't intended for general use, it should only be used within WikiProject banners, where we expect a certain level of competence in the art of template editing. That said, its doc page does give a full list of parameters that if copied and pasted will already be in the correct form. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:04, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
::{{ec}} It's not "a horrible design", it's a deliberate design. There are two kinds of parameters, distinguished in two parallel ways: by having their names in upper or lower case, and by using underscores or spaces. Those in upper case (with underscores) are configuration parameters, setting characteristics that, regardless of the talk page that the WikiProject banner is used on, do not change themselves - {{para|TF_1_LINK}} for the page to link to, {{para|TF_1_NAME}} for the text to show for that link, {{para|TF_1_IMAGE}} for the image, params for the categories and so on. By contrast, those in lower case (with spaces) are used to pass values through from the individual talk pages: {{para|tf 1}} and {{para|tf 1 importance}}, etc. Since there are two of these for each task force, your claim "a single parameter that uses a completely different naming scheme from the rest of the parameters" is incorrect.
::Please revert your change, sandbox it and obtain consensus. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 21:34, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
=== RfC on parameter alias ===
Should the {{code|tf n importance}} parameter of {{tl|WPBannerMeta}} accept an alias that makes it consistent with the other {{code|TF_N_DESCRIPTION}} parameter names? <span style="white-space: nowrap;">— [[User:Wugapodes|Wug·]][[User talk:Wugapodes|a·po·des]]</span> 22:14, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
;Background
Currently, {{tl|WPBannerMeta}} has some parameters that use {{code|ALL_CAPS_UNDERSCORED}} style, and others that use {{code|all lower spaced}} style. The style difference is due to how the inputs are handled by the meta template. Configuration parameters use the all-caps style, while those passed from the article are in the lowercase style. For wikiprojects that have task forces, this leads to code such as:
<pre>
|tf 1={{{floridiae|}}}
|TF_1_LINK = Wikipedia:Wikiproject Tulips/Task forces/Floridiae
|TF_1_NAME = the Floridiae task force
|TF_1_NESTED = Floridiae
|TF_1_TEXT =
|TF_1_IMAGE = Tulipa florenskyi 4.jpg
|tf 1 importance={{{floridiae-importance}}}
|TF_1_ASSESSMENT_CAT = Floridiae articles
|TF_1_MAIN_CAT = Floridiae articles
</pre>
If a template uses {{code|TF_1_IMPORTANCE}} the meta template fails silently. In {{diff|Template:WPBannerMeta|prev|955070895|this edit}} I added an alias so that the template will accept either {{code|tf 1 importance}} or {{code|TF_1_IMPORTANCE}}, and it was reverted.
;Rationale
Allowing either style is more intuitive for editors who create wikiproject banners. While the ''wider'' style is consistent, for those maintaining or adding functionality to task force sections of banners, the most obvious parameter name given the data above is {{code|TF_1_IMPORTANCE}}. Should an editor make that assumption, the meta template gives no indication that something is wrong, and the reason why this task force parameter is different from the others is not obvious. Using an alias so that the template accepts either style makes the interface more intuitive and prevents silent errors when an editor assumes the naming scheme is like the other {{code|TF_N_DESCRIPTION}} parameters. The change is backwards compatible, and no existing transclusions will be broken.
<span style="white-space: nowrap;">— [[User:Wugapodes|Wug·]][[User talk:Wugapodes|a·po·des]]</span> 22:14, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
* No please do not. The current naming of the parameters is sensible and logical. Adding additional aliases for parameters which are not even used by article editors is not helpful, may cause confusion and template bloat — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 22:34, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' There is no demonstrable need. WikiProject banners are not created frequently, and are sufficiently complex that the documentation should be checked each time - it is bad practice to guess at the name of ''any'' parameter. This is why we have provided boilerplates that may be copied and pasted. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:37, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
*It does seem to me that at least the lower case param should not be in the middle of the all caps params but should rather come after the other lower case param, <code>tf 1</code> (in the boilerplate). Grouping params by their type makes it less likely to use the wrong naming convention. [[User:Galobtter|Galobtter]] ([[User talk:Galobtter|pingó mió]]) 23:12, 5 May 2020 (UTC)
*:I have no opposition to that. People normally just copy and paste from the boilerplate. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 11:12, 6 May 2020 (UTC)
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