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MalnadachBot (talk | contribs) m Fixed misnested tags and reduced Lint errors. (Task 12) |
SMcCandlish (talk | contribs) →Abuse of the "last"/"author" parameter for last-first name pairs: Derp. Meant to post this to the main talk page; moving it there. |
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Also, do we need to include the case of an author that is known by a titled position, rather than a name, e.g., "Queen Elizabeth II"?
I apologize if this has been discussed before; I was away from Wikipedia for some time and missed a lot of conversations about stuff like this. Thanks!—[[User:D'Ranged 1|<
:Where it is impractical to rearrange a name into a last/first pair, the {{para|author}} parameter (and its numbered siblings) may be used. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 07:59, 25 May 2014 (UTC)
::{{U|Redrose64}} I was perhaps too verbose; I object to instructing editors to put unnecessary titles in any field at all. If required, I think the documentation should instruct editors to put courtesy titles such as "Rev." in {{para|first}} and suffixes in {{para|last}}. Your comment didn't address the issues I was trying to raise; however, your comment would make an ''excellent'' addition to the documentation, just as you have written it. Thanks.—[[User:D'Ranged 1|<
::What is an example of "Where it is impractical to rearrange a name into a last/first pair"? And how can we encapsulate such examples into an exception or otherwise specific instruction? When it comes to things like "Jr[.]" and "III", these go at the end of {{para|first}} since they are not part of the surname and putting them in {{para|last}} will both pollute the surname data and mess with by-surname sorting. There is nothing complicated or confusing about {{para|last|Chen}}{{para|first|Jaime C. Jr.}} We're doing this thousands and thousands of times (though, yes, there still mangled instances like {{para|last|Chen Jr.}}{{para|first|Jaime C.}} or {{para|author|Chen, Jr., Jaime C.}} or {{para|author|Chen, Jaime C., Jr.}} to still clean up). <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 04:14, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
:::And (to better address the OP) Wikipedia doesn't use "Dr.", "PhD", etc. – in running prose or in citations. Doing so in citations would be insanely cumbersome (not to mention it isn't expected in any major citation style), since for many topics in academia and the sciences virtually every author would have one or more such glommed-on titles before and/or after their names. It would probably also lead to a bunch of confusion and [[WP:OR]], with people doing their own research to try to figure out what kind of degree someone has and whatnot, then whether it applied at the time of the work's publication, and so forth. What a mess. Nor do we use ecclesiastical honorifics like "Rev.", or role-based ones like "Rt. Hon." or "Esq.", or nobility ones like "B[ar]t." and "Duchess". We have no reason to do "King James I" instead of just "[[James VI and I|James I]]". For guideline material, see [[MOS:PEOPLETITLES]] and its subsections on professional, honorific, and other titles, both prefixed and postfixed. <small>There seems to be something vaguely approaching a consensus that "Sir/Dame [Firstname]" is okay, but it is still usually omitted in citations, and I've seen disputes arise when it comes to sticking such a title onto a name when the publication pre-dated the honour, so it's just best avoided. It simply doesn't help the reader identify the source in any way, and that is the purpose of all the data in the citation to begin with. If you have the book title ''The Tartans of the Clans and Families of Scotland'', the edition information "7th" and/or publication date "1964", and author name "Thomas Innes of Learney" (which should be coded {{para|last|Innes of Learney}}{{para|first|Thomas}} since "of Learney" is properly part of the surname in such a case, and should just be omitted in cases where it is not), then you have no use at all for "Sir" stuck onto "Thomas" in tracking this source down, and he was not in fact Sir Thomas when the book was first published in 1938, so that would just be ripe for unproductive dispute.</small> <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''']] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] 😼 </span> 04:35, 25 October 2023 (UTC)
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