Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Map workshop/Archive/Nov 2023: Difference between revisions

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: Need a range map for this article, based on the IUCN range map available [https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/22690596/132062362 here]. No preference colorwise, but ranges usually seem to be dark green on other range maps. -- [[User:AryKun|AryKun]] ([[User talk:AryKun|talk]]) 18:32, 11 November 2023 (UTC)

;Discussion:

== Iranian Azerbaijan ___location map ==

<gallery>

File:Iran Region Azerbaijan ___location map.svg|Iranian Azerbaijan ___location map

</gallery>

;Articles:

:[[Armenian Monastic Ensembles of Iran]] and articles for associated sites. Also applicable for articles related to sites in Iranian Azerbaijan in general.

;Request:

: hello, i'd like to request a ___location map for [[Iranian Azerbaijan]], based off of the [[:File:Iran ___location map.svg|Iran ___location map]] and similar to the [[:File:Kurdistan Province Location Map.svg|Kurdistan Province Location Map]], preferably with the bordering countries labeled for clarity. if anyone can help, it'd be much appreciated! thanks :)

;Discussion

[[User:Sawyer-mcdonell|Sawyer-mcdonell]] ([[User talk:Sawyer-mcdonell|talk]]) 18:16, 23 October 2023 (UTC)

:I've made a few Iranian ___location maps: I'm not sure if I have the time to but if someone wants to please email me to get the map data (it's very difficult to access from the NCC). – [[User:Isochrone|<span style="color:#042559">I</span><span style="color:#0c3c8a">s</span><span style="color:#1d58b8">o</span>chrone]] ([[User talk:Isochrone|T]]) 13:03, 15 November 2023 (UTC)

:{{Done}}: [[Module:Location_map/data/Iran_Region_Azerbaijan]] and {{Done}}: [[:File:Iran Region Azerbaijan ___location map.svg]] [[User:TheWanderingTraders|TheWanderingTraders]] ([[User talk:TheWanderingTraders|talk]]) 03:04, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

{{tl|resolved}}

== New range map for Alpine ibex ==

[[File:Leefgebied_alpensteenbok.JPG|thumb|right|Current map]]

;Article(s):

[[Alpine ibex]]

;Request

A new range map for the species based on [https://www.iucnredlist.org/species/42397/161916377 the IUCN] Use only one color please. [[User:LittleJerry|LittleJerry]] ([[User talk:LittleJerry|talk]]) 00:59, 18 October 2023 (UTC)

{{-}}

== Phoenician dependencies of Tyre and other locations map ==

{{GLNF|Non-free image.ext|Description of the image}}

<gallery>

</gallery>

;Article(s):

: [[Phoenician sanctuary of Kharayeb]]

;Request:

: Based on the recommendation of {{u|Jengod}} [[Wikipedia:Peer review/Phoenician sanctuary of Kharayeb/archive1|here]] {{green|"Maybe a historical map showing the ___location of the temple near other cities of the era and/or the borders of the kingdom or empire?"}}. I have explained on the Peer review page that it is very difficult with the current level of knowledge to determine the area of influence of Tyre in regards to neighboring Sidon, especially that the kingdoms are known to have merged at certain periods in history, therefore I will limit the request to the late Persian period. The best extant contemporaneous source we have is the [[Periplus of Pseudo-Scylax|Periplous]] of [[Pseudo-Scylax]] ([https://topostext.org/work/102 text here]), which enumerates the main cities on the Phoenician coast in 350BC, around the end of the [[Persian period]]. I would greatly appreciate your help in drafting a map of the Levantine coast, beginning with Sidon as the northernmost locality, and Sykaminon / Tell es-Samak, the farthest south. Please include the following sites with emphasis as specified below (include both names where indicated):

::* Sidon (33.5639014,35.3702438)

::* Ornithon / Tell el-Burak (<s>33.4909146,35.277256</s> 33.482388, 35.322636)

:::<nowiki>----------- Demarcation line ----------</nowiki>

::* Sarepta (33.464325,35.295235)

::* '''Jemjim''' (<s>33.3900019,35.278762</s>) [Please replace with more accurate (33.360345, 35.276024) [[User:Elias Ziade|el.ziade]] ([[User talk:Elias Ziade|talkallam]]) 10:00, 28 December 2023 (UTC)]

::* '''Kharayeb sanctuary''' (33.345900,35.281500)

::* '''Tyre''' (33.2712962,35.1933497) Please copy the outline of Tyre from the sources I will provide. It has to show as an island as it was not yet connected to the mainland (Alexander did that by destroying mainland Tyre (paleotyrus) and filling the sea.

::* Paleotyrus / Ushu (33.2671084,35.2163915)

::* Umm al-Amad (33.128000,35.153500)

::* Achzib (<s>33.0820452,35.109239</s> 33.048317, 35.102346)

::* Acre (<s>33.0121642,35.187505</s> 32.9215034,35.0877983)

::* Sykaminon / Tell es-Samak (32.824937,34.955257)

: Please also add two colored overlays, with two colors for the spheres of influence of Tyre and Sidon. Tyre in this color (#990024) and Sidon with this one (#4B0082). The overlays would start at an opacity of 100% at the shoreline and gradually decrease to disappear 15km into the mainland and parallel to the shoreline (gradient overlay to denote fading influence the more inland one goes as we know that [[Iturea|Itureans]] and other Semitic tribes occupied the hinterland, particularly in the south). The demarcation line between the two areas of influence is the area between Tell el-Burak and Sarepta.

: The title of the map would be Tyre and its dependencies according to pseudo-Scylax around <s>335</s> 350BC, including the Kharayeb sanctuary.

: This is a [https://www.academia.edu/697370/Ancient_Tyre_and_its_harbours_5000_years_of_human_environment_interactions link showing how Tyre looked as an island] around that time before the sea was filled up by Alexander on page 1293, inset 5. Tell Mashuk (Maachouq on google maps) is where Ushu would have stood before it was flattened by Alexander.

: Reference

::* {{Cite journal |last=Elayi |first=Josette |date=1988 |title=Studies in Phoenician Geography during the Persian Period |url=https://www.jstor.org/stable/544660 |journal=Journal of Near Eastern Studies |publisher=University of Chicago Press |volume=41 |issue=2 |pages=83–110 |via=JSTOR}}

::* [https://topostext.org/work/102 Periplos of Pseudo-Scylax]]

::* {{Cite journal |last=Marriner |first=Nick |last2=Morhange |first2=Christophe |last3=Carayon |first3=Nicolas |date=2008 |title=Ancient Tyre and its harbours: 5000 years of human-environment interactions |url=https://www.academia.edu/697370/Ancient_Tyre_and_its_harbours_5000_years_of_human_environment_interactions |journal=Journal of Archaeological Science |volume=35 |issue=5 |pages=1281 |issn=0305-4403}}

::* {{Cite journal |last=Oggiano |first=Ida |date=2013 |editor-last=Aliquot |editor-first=Julien |editor2-last=Bonnet |editor2-first=Corinne |title=Le sanctuaire de Kharayeb et l'évolution de l'imagerie phénicienne dans l'arrière-pays de Tyr |url=https://www.academia.edu/19632040 |journal=Topoi |issue=Supplément 13 La Phénicie hellénistique - Actes du colloque international de Toulouse |pages=240–266}}

;Discussion:

This is a well written request from a graphic workers point of view, but it's not signed.<br>

Is it {{ping|Elias Ziade}} who has created it?<br>

I can help here but I need to be in contact with the requester throughout the whole process so get back to me if it's you, thanks. --''always ping me''-- [[User:Goran tek-en|Goran tek-en]] ([[User talk:Goran tek-en|talk]]) 12:33, 16 December 2023 (UTC)

:@[[User:Goran tek-en|Goran tek-en]] Hey! Sorry for the oversight. It was me indeed. Thanks a lot for your help. [[User:Elias Ziade|el.ziade]] ([[User talk:Elias Ziade|talkallam]]) 12:38, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

::{{I take| --''always ping me''-- [[User:Goran tek-en|Goran tek-en]] ([[User talk:Goran tek-en|talk]]) 16:05, 17 December 2023 (UTC)}}

:::@[[User:Elias Ziade|Elias Ziade]] Just remember I have zero knowledge of this topic.

:::*First we have to get the overall area of the map, [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1T59OdYuiidvCmG9bXxLpz-sPCxy3QsMl/view?usp=sharing is this area fine?]

:::*The link for Tyre in the pdf is behind a log in so please provide me with a good screen print or other?

:::**Is there not copyright on that pdf? For me it's a big difference because it means if I can copy or just use it as information.

::: --''always ping me''-- [[User:Goran tek-en|Goran tek-en]] ([[User talk:Goran tek-en|talk]]) 16:35, 17 December 2023 (UTC)

::::@[[User:Goran tek-en|Goran tek-en]] I will check and get back to you. [[User:Elias Ziade|el.ziade]] ([[User talk:Elias Ziade|talkallam]]) 14:57, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

:::::@[[User:Goran tek-en|Goran tek-en]] I think all rights are reserved by Elsevier for that one. There are [[c:Category:Siege_of_Tyre|a few ones on Commons]] that will do the trick. Tyre will likely look like a dot facing the shoreline anyway. [[User:Elias Ziade|el.ziade]] ([[User talk:Elias Ziade|talkallam]]) 15:46, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

::::::@[[User:Elias Ziade|Elias Ziade]] Thanks, you didn't respond to my question regarding the overall area of the map. --''always ping me''-- [[User:Goran tek-en|Goran tek-en]] ([[User talk:Goran tek-en|talk]]) 16:48, 18 December 2023 (UTC)

:::::::@[[User:Goran tek-en|Goran tek-en]] Yes, the area is perfect. In response to your concern regarding your lack of familiarity with the subject, I intend to engage several users for a review upon completion of an initial draft of the map. [[User:Elias Ziade|el.ziade]] ([[User talk:Elias Ziade|talkallam]]) 09:25, 19 December 2023 (UTC)

::::::::@[[User:Elias Ziade|Elias Ziade]]

::::::::----

::::::::Those drafts are PNG versions of the original SVG file I'm working in and will upload to commons.<br>

::::::::Those drafts are shown <u>for proofreading only.</u>

::::::::----

::::::::*You specially have to check "Ornithon / Tell el-Burak" as the coordinates end up in the ocean.

::::::::*I wasn't sure if the ciry marker for Tyre should be on the island or where I put it now.

::::::::*Check everything [https://drive.google.com/file/d/19GZgtO2XbZDkDaeHQaE0UtuxxnpWZv29/view?usp=sharing on this draft-1.] Feedback thanks.

:::::::: --''always ping me''-- [[User:Goran tek-en|Goran tek-en]] ([[User talk:Goran tek-en|talk]]) 16:14, 21 December 2023 (UTC)

:::::::::@[[User:Goran tek-en|Goran tek-en]] Thanks a lot for the map. These are the coordinates for Ornithon / Tell el-Burak (33.482388, 35.322636) and the marker for the city of Tyre should be indeed the island. @[[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] can you help fact check the map and who else do you believe can help with this?

:::::::::

:::::::::[[User:Elias Ziade|el.ziade]] ([[User talk:Elias Ziade|talkallam]]) 09:36, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

::::::::::Also the ___location of Acre should be corrected. These are the correct coordinates: 32.9215034,35.0877983 [[User:Elias Ziade|el.ziade]] ([[User talk:Elias Ziade|talkallam]]) 09:44, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

:::::::::@[[User:Goran tek-en|Goran tek-en]] I have made adjustments to the coordinates. Happy holidays! [[User:Elias Ziade|el.ziade]] ([[User talk:Elias Ziade|talkallam]]) 10:01, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

::::::::::@[[User:Elias Ziade|Elias Ziade]] [https://drive.google.com/file/d/1v_SOccEjdJ9JaVcVENGfWNMkG5vl44lC/view?usp=sharing Draft-2 to be checked, thanks.] --''always ping me''-- [[User:Goran tek-en|Goran tek-en]] ([[User talk:Goran tek-en|talk]]) 10:56, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

:::::::::::This article [https://janes.scholasticahq.com/article/2291-the-phoenician-cities-in-the-persian-period/attachment/6232.pdf The Phoenician Cities in the Persian Period] may help. It says: {{tq|We have basically two valuable Greek sources dating from the Persian period: the Histories of Herodotus and the Periplus of Pseudo-Scylax... As far as we know, there were six Phoenician cities in the Persian period: Sidon, Tyre, Arados, Byblos, Tripoli, and Berytos... In the Phoenician cities, whichever Phoenician community was most powerful imposed its rule. Some towns, however, could belong to the territory of a Phoenician city even though the Phoenician community was a minority, for example, Ashkelon, a Philistine town which belonged to Tyre in the Persian period according to Pseudo-Scylax... Phoenicia was not, of course, a country in the modern sense of the word. Yet, it is often more convenient to say "Phoenicia" instead of "Phoenician cities," just as there is a convention to use the word"Greece" to designate the Greek cities... Phoenician cities could be discontinuous. We know from the Periplus, for example, that, beyond the town of Dor, which was controlled by the Sidonians, there were southwards the towns of Crocodeilon and Ashkelon belonging to the Tyrians. The fact that these last two towns were separated from the territory of Tyre did not much matter because the Phoenician coastal plain itself was fragmented by nature (note, for example, that the promontory of Theouprosopon completely interrupts coastal communications); and because the Phoenicians could easily communicate by sea.}}

:::::::::::I can't see the draft map because I don't have access to google via my wiki account, but it will be important that it illustrates the fragmented / discontinuous nature of the Tyrian ___domain. [[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] ([[User talk:Onceinawhile|talk]]) 17:51, 28 December 2023 (UTC)

::::::::::::@[[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] The draft is just as any link to use in any web browser, should not be a problem for anyone. --''always ping me''-- [[User:Goran tek-en|Goran tek-en]] ([[User talk:Goran tek-en|talk]]) 14:04, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

:::::::::::::[[File:Pseudo-Scylax manuscript pages describing the coast of Syria and Phoenicia (annotated).png|thumb|Pseudo-Scylax manuscript pages describing the coast of Syria and Phoenicia (annotated)]]

:::::::::::::Thank you Goran, the link is working now. I have done some more work on the Scylax sources - reviewing the original manuscript (see to the right) - and the secondary sources which interpret Scylax, two of which include maps.

:::::::::::::* {{cite journal | last=Galling | first=Kurt | title=Die syrisch-palästinische Küste nach der Beschreibung bei Pseudo-Skylax | journal=Zeitschrift des Deutschen Palästina-Vereins (1878-1945) | publisher=Deutscher Verein zur Erforschung Palästinas | volume=61 | issue=1/2 | year=1938 | issn=21923124 | jstor=27930190 | pages=66–96 | url=http://www.jstor.org/stable/27930190 | ref=none}}

:::::::::::::* {{cite journal | last=Elayi | first=Josette | title=Studies in Phoenician Geography during the Persian Period | journal=Journal of Near Eastern Studies | publisher=University of Chicago Press | volume=41 | issue=2 | year=1982 | issn=00222968 | jstor=544660 | pages=83–110 | url=http://www.jstor.org/stable/544660 | ref=none}}

:::::::::::::* {{cite book | last=Lipiński | first=E. | title=Itineraria Phoenicia | publisher=Uitgeverij Peeters en Departement Oosterse Studies | series=Orientalia Lovaniensia analecta | year=2004 | isbn=978-90-429-1344-8 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=SLSzNfdcqfoC&pg=PA273 |p=273|ref=none}} '''<= See map here'''

:::::::::::::* {{cite book | last=Shipley | first=G. | title=Pseudo-Skylax's Periplous: The Circumnavigation of the Inhabited World : Text, Translation and Commentary | publisher=Bristol Phoenix Press | series=Liverpool University Press Series | year=2011 | isbn=978-1-904675-82-2 | url=https://books.google.com/books?id=NEcURQAACAAJ | ref=none|page=180}}'''<= See map here'''

:::::::::::::What is clear is that the manuscript is mutilated, and this is the only known one to have survived. So scholars have made quite a few assumptions - a number of the cities in the original link Elie provided above are not mentioned in Scylax, and are simply assumed.

:::::::::::::If you are happy to, it would be very valuable to also have a pure representation of Scylax's description of the full coastline, perhaps following Lipinski's and Shipley's versions above, which cover a wider area. Lipinski's and Shipley's interpretations of Scylax differ in a number of ways, and it would be valuable to show those differences. '''<nowiki>https://we.tl/t-xVOQO1XPpT</nowiki> Here is a temporary link to a relevant file'''

:::::::::::::As for the narrow area covered in Goran's map, the only amendments all this research has uncovered are that Sidonian influence begins again at the south of the map:

:::::::::::::(1) [[Château Pèlerin|Atlit]] (32°42′19″N 34°56′02″E), which Shipley believes is meant by the second Arados, is a Sidonian city

:::::::::::::(2) [[Tel Dor]] (32°37′03″N 34°55′03″E) is also a Sidonian city

:::::::::::::This should be demarcated, as the current map implies that Tyrian influence continues onwards.

:::::::::::::[[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] ([[User talk:Onceinawhile|talk]]) 17:08, 29 December 2023 (UTC)

::::::::::::::@[[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] I have indeed included the sites pertinent to the Kharayeb Sanctuary article. I recognize the importance of constructing a map of Phoenicia based on the description by Pseudo-Scyllax, devoid of modern additions. Creating such a map would serve as a valuable tool for visualizing the periplos.

::::::::::::::Looking ahead, I suggest focusing solely on incorporating sites listed in the periplos. This would align with the objective of accurately representing the geographical details outlined by Pseudo-Scyllax.

::::::::::::::To distinguish between Tyrian and Sidonian dependencies on the map, we could employ a distinct marking or color scheme for each, ensuring clarity in visualizing the respective territories. What do you think? What do you suggest we do with Byblos? Shall we add a third color key indicating known Phoenician cities not listed in the Periplos? [[User:Elias Ziade|el.ziade]] ([[User talk:Elias Ziade|talkallam]]) 13:17, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::Hi Elie, that all makes sense to me. [[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] ([[User talk:Onceinawhile|talk]]) 13:25, 3 January 2024 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::@[[User:Elias Ziade|Elias Ziade]] @[[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] I have to be clear about that all you are writing above is for me a discussion which I'm not involved in (this is maybe not the best place for that).

::::::::::::::::<u>When you are done with that, you specifically have to ping me and tell me what to edit in short and exact text,</u> thanks. --''always ping me''-- [[User:Goran tek-en|Goran tek-en]] ([[User talk:Goran tek-en|talk]]) 12:07, 4 January 2024 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::::@[[User:Elias Ziade|Elias Ziade]]@[[User:Onceinawhile|Onceinawhile]] So I need to understand what is going on...

:::::::::::::::::Can we continue on this or is it a {{tl|stale}}

:::::::::::::::::seriously, tell me what's going on, thanks. --''always ping me''-- [[User:Goran tek-en|Goran tek-en]] ([[User talk:Goran tek-en|talk]]) 13:31, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

== SVG locator map of Greater Somalia in the gray and green globe scheme ==

<!-- Template will be removed when this request is completed. -->{{User:ClueBot III/DoNotArchiveUntil|253402221718}}<!-- Template will be removed when this request is completed. -->

<gallery>

Somali map.jpg|The map should be based off of this map created by the CIA.

Greater Somalia (orthographic projection).svg|Finished map

</gallery>

;Article(s):

: [[Greater Somalia]]

;Request:

: Create an SVG locator map of Greater Somalia in the gray and green globe scheme. The map should be based off of [[Commons:File:Somali map.jpg|this map]] (shown above) created by the CIA. -- [[User:Treetoes023|Treetoes023]] ([[User talk:Treetoes023|talk]]) 01:58, 7 January 2024 (UTC)

;Discussion:

:Since it appears that some editors have been fiddling with original map, I looked for it and found it [https://maps.lib.utexas.edu/maps/africa/horn_ethnic_80.jpg here] (mentioned in [https://apps.dtic.mil/sti/pdfs/AD1071094.pdf this source]). Would basing the map on the original source work for you? [[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 18:24, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

::{{Reply to|M.Bitton}} Yes, it would actually be ideal to use the unaltered map. – [[User:Treetoes023|Treetoes023]] ([[User talk:Treetoes023|talk]]) 22:09, 10 January 2024 (UTC)

:::{{I take|[[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 23:53, 10 January 2024 (UTC)}}

:::{{Done}} [[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 18:35, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

::::{{Reply to|M.Bitton}} Can you change the green island in Kenya to gray because it is not a part of Greater Somalia? Also, could you tint the borders that overlap with Greater Somalia green (like [[Commons:File:Kurdish-inhabited areas (orthographic projection with inset).svg|this map]] does). – [[User:Treetoes023|Treetoes023]] ([[User talk:Treetoes023|talk]]) 19:50, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

:::::Sure thing. [[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 22:03, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

:::::{{Done}} [[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 22:59, 11 January 2024 (UTC)

::::::{{Reply to|M.Bitton}} Could you tint the borders that overlap with Greater Somalia green (like [[Commons:File:Kurdish-inhabited areas (orthographic projection with inset).svg|this map]] does in the inset of Kurdistan). – [[User:Treetoes023|Treetoes023]] ([[User talk:Treetoes023|talk]]) 13:23, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

:::::::{{Done}} even though, I don't really see the purpose of this. That said, a different colour is a big no as far as I'm concerned, therefore, I reduced its opacity (which can be reduced further if needed). [[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 15:23, 12 January 2024 (UTC)

{{tl|resolved|[[User:Treetoes023|Treetoes023]] ([[User talk:Treetoes023|talk]]) 15:32, 12 January 2024 (UTC)}}