Talk:Presto (SQL query engine): Difference between revisions

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[[User:StevenMih88|StevenMih88]] ([[User talk:StevenMih88|talk]]) 05:08, 4 October 2022 (UTC)Steven Mih

{{Requestedit EditCOI|D}}

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* '''Specific text to be added or removed''': Remove text "Neither the creators of Presto, nor the top contributors and committers, were invited to join this foundation." ''':

* '''Reason for the change''': This claim is controversial and can likely lead to a [[WP:Battle]]. The statement doesn't support or help readers understand Presto or Trino and isn't [[WP:NEUTRAL]]''':

* '''Remove text "Neither the creators of Presto, nor the top contributors and committers, were invited to join this foundation." ''':

* '''References supporting change''': This claim made by Piotr (top 5 contributor to both projects) states that neither they nore the creators Martin, Dain, and David were invited<ref>{{cite web |last1=Findeisen |first1=Piotr |title=What is the relationship of prestosql and prestodb? · Issue #380 · trinodb/trino |url=https://github.com/trinodb/trino/issues/380#issuecomment-557691046 |website=GitHub |access-date=4 October 2022 |language=en}}</ref>. Later in 2020 there was a vacuous invitation to merge the Trino project into the Presto project under the terms that Martin, Dain, and David would no longer be on the steering committee. This was extended years after the contending project was established and from the perspective of the creators was posturing of the Presto community to show that they aimed to join the communities. It seems pretty clear why we're pushing two different accounts but this really doesn't matter to anyone who wants to use Presto or Trino so I think removing either claim is a benefit to everyone.''':

* '''This claim is controversial and can likely lead to a [[WP:Battle]]. The statement doesn't support or help readers understand Presto or Trino and isn't [[WP:NEUTRAL]]''':

* '''This claim made by Piotr (top 5 contributor to both projects) states that neither they nore the creators Martin, Dain, and David were invited<ref>{{cite web |last1=Findeisen |first1=Piotr |title=What is the relationship of prestosql and prestodb? · Issue #380 · trinodb/trino |url=https://github.com/trinodb/trino/issues/380#issuecomment-557691046 |website=GitHub |access-date=4 October 2022 |language=en}}</ref>. Later in 2020 there was a vacuous invitation to merge the Trino project into the Presto project under the terms that Martin, Dain, and David would no longer be on the steering committee. This was extended years after the contending project was established and from the perspective of the creators was posturing of the Presto community to show that they aimed to join the communities. It seems pretty clear why we're pushing two different accounts but this really doesn't matter to anyone who wants to use Presto or Trino so I think removing either claim is a benefit to everyone.''':

[[User:Brianolsen2|Brianolsen2]] ([[User talk:Brianolsen2|talk]]) 16:40, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

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I agree with [[User:StevenMih88|StevenMih88]]'s first and third requests above and I have created a formal request edit for the third one as it will make the page less divisive.

I disagree that we should remove "Presto (including PrestoDB, and PrestoSQL which was re-branded to Trino)". For about two years after the projects split, [[Trino_(SQL_query_engine) |Trino]] was branded as PrestoSQL vs the original PrestoDB brand for nearly two years after the projects splitproject before it was renamed to Trino<ref>{{cite web |last1=Phillips |first1=David |last2=Sundstrom |first2=Dain |last3=Traverso |first3=Martin |title=We’re rebranding PrestoSQL as Trino |url=https://trino.io/blog/2020/12/27/announcing-trino.html |website=trino.io |access-date=4 October 2022 |language=en |date=27 December 2020}}</ref>. There are many people using the PrestoSQL name that are unknowninglyunknowingly using earlier versions of the Trino fork. It will help many to know that if they are using PrestoSQL and which version they have actually been using. In fact, having a clear ___location on both pages where we delineate between the differences of both project and cross reference will help users in general. Despite Trino being included in the [[Presto_(SQL_query_engine)#See_also]] section, they might not know to investigate that version if they are on PrestoSQL. So keeping that distinction is important, just as the distinction is made in the [[Trino_(SQL_query_engine)#History]] section.

[[User:Brianolsen2|Brianolsen2]] ([[User talk:Brianolsen2|talk]]) 17:02, 4 October 2022 (UTC)

:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' <!-- Template:ECOI --> This looks like a content dispute between COI editors. Denied. [[User:Quetstar|Quetstar]] ([[User talk:Quetstar|talk]]) 23:48, 6 October 2022 (UTC)

== Merger proposal ==

[[User:Frap|Frap]] has proposed to merge the [[Presto_(SQL_query_engine) |Presto]] article into the [[Trino_(SQL_query_engine) |Trino]] article. A merger proposal wasn't added so I am adding one and am happy to let Frap describe their reasons for this proposal. Until then I will list some of the pros and cons to this in my opinion as a Developer Advocate on the Trino project and employee at a vendor built a top of Trino, Starburst.

To me, these pages are separate for a reason. The projects have distinct foundations (Presto with the Presto Foundation under the Linux Foundation and Trino under the Trino Software Foundation). The projects have diverged significantly <ref>https://trino.io/blog/2022/08/02/leaving-facebook-meta-best-for-trino.html</ref>. There are a significant number of projects that exist in Trino (such as support for fault-tolerance <ref>https://trino.io/blog/2022/05/05/tardigrade-launch.html</ref>), that do not exist in Presto. Likewise, Presto has started to move their efforts to supporting integration with Meta project Velox<ref>https://engineering.fb.com/2022/08/31/open-source/velox/</ref> which Trino does not plan on supporting.

Many other projects<ref>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_software_forks</ref> have a separate wiki page for multiple forks. Trino and Presto have already been added to this list, to help clarify this.

The biggest advantage to keeping these two separate is that people interested in learning more about the technologies have a clear understanding that these are now two distinct projects that share history. Depending on the context that they are learning, it can be confusing if someone searches for Trino and winds up on a Presto page to a different project and also it would be just as confusing if they were searching for the Facebook Presto project and wound up on a Trino page. The articles were written in such a way that they reference each other well and make the shared history clear while providing facts about each of the individual projects moving forward. This also avoids [[Wikipedia:Content_forking]].

For these reasons, I propose against merging these two articles.

[[User:Brianolsen2|Brianolsen2]] ([[User talk:Brianolsen2|talk]]) 21:22, 24 February 2023 (UTC)

:You bring up some good points and I can buy your arguments. The reason I proposed the merger was that both articles were almost identical. If Trino and Presto diverge enough that the content of the articles were to be different then they would warrant separate articles. [[User:Frap|Frap]] ([[User talk:Frap|talk]]) 14:30, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

::Yeah, there are plenty of differences to be discussed that I would like to point out on both pages. If you would be interested in writing them I can provide suggestions and sources, but I myself can't write about it as I have a conflict of interest. Would you want to help showcase the differences between these projects? [[User:Brianolsen2|Brianolsen2]] ([[User talk:Brianolsen2|talk]]) 16:13, 25 February 2023 (UTC)

::[[User:Frap|Frap]], any thoughts here? Would love to get some help updating these pages so they aren't as identical and really highlight the differences to lighten the load of folks learning about them. [[User:Brianolsen2|Brianolsen2]] ([[User talk:Brianolsen2|talk]]) 20:18, 28 February 2023 (UTC)

::Once clear change we probably should make is removing [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Presto_%28SQL_query_engine%29&diff=prev&oldid=1068161898&diffmode=source the Trino architecture from the Presto page]. This information is redundant and as shown in the picture, actually describes Trino's architecture versus Presto's.

::This will make the articles look different since that was copied in from the Trino page. [[User:Brianolsen2|Brianolsen2]] ([[User talk:Brianolsen2|talk]]) 18:46, 14 March 2023 (UTC)

:I'm going to remove the merger proposal for now since this conversation has gone stale. [[User:Brianolsen2|Brianolsen2]] ([[User talk:Brianolsen2|talk]]) 20:29, 20 April 2023 (UTC)

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