Talk:Cangjie input method: Difference between revisions

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== HEY! ==

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::I hate to be the one to break it to you, but the main topolects used in the Anglosphere’s oldest Chinatowns are still Cantonese. You don’t know me, you don’t know nothin about my history, and I’d thank you to not demonstrate your ignorance, by [[WP:AGF|assuming good faith]] and not making ad hominem attacks. When most English-speakers refer to Chinese New Year, they say ''k/gung hay fat choi'', not ''gong xi fa cai'' (though this may likely change within our lifetimes, due to Mainland emigration and lobbying efforts by the PRC). This is English Wikipedia, not Mandarin Wikipedia or Taiwanpedia. The reason I found it useful to include the Cantonese transcription is that the first time I heard of the IME, I was speaking English, in an English-speaking country, and, not being up on my Chinese history, wondered why I couldn’t find any information about “Chong key” online. When I finally read about Chongkit it clicked, although I don’t know that I would have made the same association with ''CangJie''. And [[Yale romanization#Cantonese|Yale romanization]], in fact, is not even really used in Hong Kong, but was invented for ''Americans'' and is widely used ''outside'' HK by those learning Cantonese as a second language. The presumption that, because Chōng Kit was invented in Taiwan, it is neither used nor spoken of by people with non-Mandarin varieties is erroneous and absurd. In fact, that’s likely its main niche, as the vast, vast majority of Mandarin speakers use a phonetic input method, whereas there are few for non-Mandarin varieties—therefore, it’s been estimated that 倉頡’s main userbase is HK, not Taiwan. So if anything, [[WP:NPOV|neutrality]] dictates that this be written to reflect Hong Kong-centrism. Furthermore, I fail to grasp how ''including'' another, common romanization, is Hong Kong-''centric'', when it remains secondary to the pinyin spelling. Don’t be so provincial. —[[User talk:Wiki Wikardo|Wiki Wikardo]] 05:58, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

: Chongkit is not used in Hong Kong or anywhere else, but '''Changjei''' is used in Hong Kong, for example a university training class [https://www.eduhk.hk/ocio/Changjei], a book published by Keith Tsoi in Hong Kong [http://www.wanlibk.com/cgi-bin/isbn_pages.asp?txtIsbn=9621415101] and on his website [http://keithtsoi.com.hk/Level1/Level2/course/course_intro.htm], and this thesis from HKU [http://hub.hku.hk/handle/10722/28647;jsessionid=94FA13BECB4D260C90917405B41F5748]. The name '''Tsang-jei''' was used by the Curriculum Development Council of the Education Dept of Hong Kong. [http://www.edb.gov.hk/attachment/en/curriculum-development/kla/technology-edu/curriculum-doc/ComputerLiteracy_%20E.pdf]--[[User:Stomatapoll|Stomatapoll]] ([[User talk:Stomatapoll|talk]]) 07:22, 31 May 2017 (UTC)

==Suggestion to move this page to disambiguation page==

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[[User:CNJECulver|CNJECulver]] ([[User talk:CNJECulver|talk]]) 02:36, 27 December 2009 (UTC)

: Note on above post: the reason is that e.g. means 'for example', while i.e. means 'that is'. (In English. The letters are, I *think*, from Latin, and I don't know what they stand for in that language, only what they mean in English ^^) [[User:Firejuggler86|Firejuggler86]] ([[User talk:Firejuggler86|talk]]) 06:43, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

== Actual difficulties section ==

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I will say, too, that for an IME often touted for its potential speed, the demo video of ChangJie characters being composed is painfully slow to watch. —[[User talk:Wiki Wikardo|Wiki Wikardo]] 05:58, 23 October 2013 (UTC)

== Pinyin for the radicals ==

[[User:Lycurgus/Cangjie#The_keys_and_.22radicals.22|is here]] [[User:Lycurgus|Lycurgus]] ([[User talk:Lycurgus|talk]]) 18:09, 11 November 2015 (UTC)

== stroke order exceptions ==

I'd like to find or create a dabase of characters which show exceptions to the stroke order to be expected according to the standard guidelines? [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stroke_order#General_guidelines 现代汉语通用字笔顺规范]. I haven't found any academic article on the issue yet.

Eventually, the characters that do not follow the standard guidelines should be arranged into groups according to the "type of irregularity", which would be very useful both for lexicographic and learning purposes. --[[User:Backinstadiums|Backinstadiums]] ([[User talk:Backinstadiums|talk]]) 11:28, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

: This is probably the wrong place to ask, as the Cangjie input method is based on shapes irrespective of stroke order. Apart from that, stroke orders taught in Mainland China, Taiwan and Hong Kong often differ, so you can't expect a universal answer to your question. — The [http://www.eon.com.hk/estroke/ eStroke] application allows you to select among several stroke order types that are accepted in the Chinese speaking world. <small>[[Wikipedia:WikiLove|Love]]</small>&nbsp;—[[:commons:User:LiliCharlie|LiliCharlie]]&nbsp;<small>([[User talk:LiliCharlie|talk]])</small> 16:39, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

:: {{reply to|LiliCharlie}} Sorry, you're right. The article I read meantioned natives were forgetting their order due to new input methods. Do you know how to propose this project, at least for the HSK vocabulary? Maybe the stroke order project gathered enough info. for it. --[[User:Backinstadiums|Backinstadiums]] ([[User talk:Backinstadiums|talk]]) 18:47, 22 November 2017 (UTC)

== Western bias? ==

a system by which Chinese characters may be entered into a computer using a standard keyboard

How standard are qwerty keyboards actually?

--[[User:Euyyn|euyyn]] ([[User talk:Euyyn|talk]]) 20:52, 29 July 2018 (UTC)

: Good point. I'd like to add that the Cangjie input method doesn't depend on a [[QWERTY]] hardware [[keyboard layout]] at all. I use it on several computers, and one of them is a laptop with a German [[QWERTZ]] [[Computer keyboard|keyboard]]. That doesn't change a thing; the keys {{lang|zh|日月金木水火土竹戈十大中一弓人心手口尸廿山女田卜}} as well as the special keys are still at the same place. <small>[[Wikipedia:WikiLove|Love]]</small>&nbsp;—[[:commons:User:LiliCharlie|LiliCharlie]]&nbsp;<small>([[User talk:LiliCharlie|talk]])</small> 02:57, 30 July 2018 (UTC)

:: When the Chinese invent their own computer architecture from scratch and mass produce PCs that the East adopts for general use, then there may be a legitimate claim that QWERTY is not the standard keyboard ;) (which, for all I know, they ''may be'') [[User:Firejuggler86|Firejuggler86]] ([[User talk:Firejuggler86|talk]]) 06:54, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

== Too many keyboard layout illustrations ==

@[[Special:Contributions/Cangjie6|Cangjie6]] and all: We currently have three still images and a video that illustrate the CJ keyboard layout. In my opinion such a wealth is unjustified in form and content as well as pedagogically, and I would like to have at least one of two in the ''Keyboard layout'' section removed, but I can't make up my mind which one. Pros and cons? Suggestions? <small>[[Wikipedia:WikiLove|Love]]</small>&nbsp;—[[:commons:User:LiliCharlie|LiliCharlie]]&nbsp;<small>([[User talk:LiliCharlie|talk]])</small> 23:56, 29 July 2019 (UTC)

:I kept the CG under "Keyboard layout" part. Maybe a CG is clearer than a photo, though that photo is clear enough for me. But where's the third one? I can't find it.-[[User:Cangjie6|Cangjie6]] ([[User talk:Cangjie6|talk]]) 20:46, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

:: I agree, thanks for your edit.

:: Outside the ''Keyboard layout'' section, the image [[:File:HK 石塘咀市政大廈 Shek Tong Tsui Municipal Services Building 電腦鍵盤 Chinese input keyboard Jan-2012.jpg|HK 石塘咀市政大廈 Shek Tong Tsui Municipal Services Building 電腦鍵盤 Chinese input keyboard Jan-2012.jpg]] and the video [[:File:CangjieOnMiNote2AndroidScreencast.webm|CangjieOnMiNote2AndroidScreencast.webm]] also show a CJ keyboard layout. <small>[[Wikipedia:WikiLove|Love]]</small>&nbsp;—[[:commons:User:LiliCharlie|LiliCharlie]]&nbsp;<small>([[User talk:LiliCharlie|talk]])</small> 21:15, 30 July 2019 (UTC)

:::Oh dear, maybe it's too small, I've ignored it. Maybe we can change it into a bigger one.-[[User:Cangjie6|Cangjie6]] ([[User talk:Cangjie6|talk]]) 08:52, 31 July 2019 (UTC)

== Key presses ==

[[File:Standard Taiwanese Keyboard Layout.svg|thumb|right]]

How does one type the Cangjie characters? Which shift keys are used? Shift, Ctrl, Alt, AltGr, etc.? In the image to the right the characters are colored green. Thanks. &#x27A7;<span style="border:1px dotted #2e4272;padding:1px;border-radius:3px;">[[User:Datumizer|<span style="color:#162955;">datumizer</span>]]&nbsp;[[User_talk:Datumizer|<span style="color:#fff;background:#4f62ae;">&nbsp;&#9742;&nbsp;</span>]]</span> 02:29, 11 November 2020 (UTC)

:None. None of the [[Bopomofo]] letters, Cangjie or [[Dayi method|dayi]] radicals shown on these keycaps make use of any modifiers. One switches to an appropriate mode of the input method and then type them directly. What shortcuts are used for switching between modes and for other functions is unrelated and usually configurable, but these are proper modes, not quasimodes that require holding some modifier. –<i style="text-transform:lowercase">MwGamera</i> ([[User talk:MwGamera|talk]]) 14:22, 14 November 2020 (UTC)