Talk:Intellectual rights to magic methods: Difference between revisions

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The{{old resultXfD ofmulti the|date=26 [[January 2006 |page=Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Intellectual rights to magic methods|discussion]] was |result='''Keep'''. }}

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This article was nominated for [[Wikipedia:Deletion policy|deletion]] on 26 January 2006.

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The result of the [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Intellectual rights to magic methods|discussion]] was '''Keep'''.

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{{Magic}}

Hang On

This article describes how intellectual property works in magic.

This article is very interesting for lawyers and magicians who have to deal with copyright issues.

This field is still evolving and has te potential to grow to a field of great importance.

([[User:Bid297|Bid297]] ([[User talk:Bid297|talk]]) 20:45, 6 July 2016 (UTC))

==[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|Speedy deletion]] nomination of [[:Intellectual rights to magic methods]]==

[[Image:Ambox warning pn.svg|48px|left|alt=|link=]]

A tag has been placed on [[:Intellectual rights to magic methods]], requesting that it be speedily deleted from Wikipedia. This has been done for the following reason:

<div class="center">''this article has no pourpose''</div>

Under the [[WP:CSD#General_criteria|criteria for speedy deletion]], articles that do not meet basic Wikipedia criteria may be deleted at any time.

If you think that this notice was placed here in error, you may contest the deletion by adding {{tlc|hang on}} to '''the top of [[:Intellectual rights to magic methods|the page that has been nominated for deletion]]''' (just below the existing speedy deletion, or "db", tag; if no such tag exists, then the page is no longer a speedy delete candidate and adding a hang-on tag is unnecessary), coupled with adding a note on '''[[Talk:Intellectual rights to magic methods|the talk page]]''' explaining your position, but be aware that once tagged for ''speedy'' deletion, if the page meets the criterion, it may be deleted without delay. Please do not remove the speedy deletion tag yourself, but don't hesitate to add information to the page that would render it more in conformance with Wikipedia's policies and guidelines. If the page is deleted, you can contact [[:Category:Wikipedia administrators who will provide copies of deleted articles|one of these administrators]] to request that the administrator [[Wikipedia:Userfication#Userfication_of_deleted_content|userfy]] the page or email a copy to you. <!-- Template:db-warn --> [[User:Firefoxcub|Firefoxcub]] ([[User talk:Firefoxcub|talk]]) 00:08, 29 January 2011 (UTC)

== Patents ==

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:: Patent law does not apply to a method unless the method is part of a patentable gimmick, but even then, it isn't the method that is patented, but the operation of the gimmick. This whole thing is a very tricky part of the law. Until case law can produce some precedent, all of this will just have to live in the world of conjecture. Ultimately, anything that is patented is publicly disclosed anyway, so it is a Catch-22. --[[User:Gijones|Gijones]] 23:03, 9 July 2007 (UTC)

:::I think that what you are saying is already reflected to some extent in the text of the article. Patents give a particular type of protection - they were never intended as a way to help people keep things secret. This topic is not all conjecture because there IS some case law on patents in relation to magic. It reflects the limits of patent protection. Goldin used patents to try to prevent anyone else doing the sawing illusion and fought a number of court cases in relation to them. But Goldin ultimately lost his case relating to exposure because he neglected the fact that the patent process requires you to lodge publicly accessible copies of the details of the invention in question.[[User:Circusandmagicfan|Circusandmagicfan]] 20:03, 12 July 2007 (UTC)Circusandmagicfan

Magic illusion inventor and magician Hessel Bos is the first person who registered a magic trick as a copyright in the United States Copyright Office. First he did this as a pantomime (registration number: PAu003016700: / Date: 2005-10-21 / Title: Ball over and behind). Later he did this as an actual magic trick (registration number: PAu003034696 / Date: 2005-12-29 / Title: M2 presentation).

Hessel Bos registered these magic tricks by describing every movement of the magic tricks via text and photographs and then submitted these documents to the copyright office. They were approved under the Performance Art section and a certificate of registration was granted.

In this way Hessel Bos copyrighted not the submitted material (text and photographs) but the actual magic trick that was a result of the movements described.

In September 2008 Hessel Bos successfully filed a complaint under The Digital Milennium Copyright Act against America Online to remove a video from their website in which Hessel Bos owned great parts of the performance of a magic trick. This resulted in the removal of the specific video by America Online.

([[User:Bid297|Bid297]] ([[User talk:Bid297|talk]]) 20:52, 6 July 2016 (UTC))

:I've tidied up this part of the article to better reflect the facts and context. It may be that Hessel Bos is the first person to register a trick with the US Copyright Office but there's no cited source to confirm no one else did it earlier. Also, (as now stated in the article) registration is not the key to copyright protection - copyright automatically comes into being when a work is created. Due recognition needs to be given to the Teller case because that involved copyright being upheld in court, whereas Bos's action was just a DMCA takedown request. The paragraph read a bit like a PR piece for Hessel Bos. I figured it would be harsh to delete it but I've edited it to hopefully be more in line with Wikipedia style. I checked the registration numbers on the US Patent Office site and it shows both registrations categorised simply as "text". I'm dubious about the passage that says "Later he did this as an actual magic trick" - I don't see anything that says the USCO recognises "magic trick" as a specific category of work that can have protection.

:[[User:Circusandmagicfan|Circusandmagicfan]] ([[User talk:Circusandmagicfan|talk]]) 22:25, 18 February 2017 (UTC)circusandmagicfan

== Industry standard and praxis ==

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::Thanks for your help. I will too try to help as I can. As for varying legal jurisdictions, this should be dealt with as it is in other instances. There are some general principles that are the same throughout, but I would note that on any English language encyclopedia article for a worldwide audience will probably have reference to U.S. law. This is even more true here because many of the [[moral right]]s issues are the ones that most differ between the U.S. and other jurisdictions. So I would modify your statement only to say that we shouldn't ''exclusively'' be specific to one jurisdiction. Again, this requires the support of all parties involved. Thanks again.[[User:L33th4x0rguy|LH]] ([[User talk:L33th4x0rguy|talk]]) 20:05, 18 June 2008 (UTC)

:::I'm not saying don't mention US law - however US law should not be the starting point or the thing that defines the structure of the article. The general forms and structures of intellectual property law are now determined to a large extent by international treaties and conventions (eg. the [[Berne Convention for the Protection of Literary and Artistic Works]]). Once the general principles that apply internationally have been dealt with, then it is fine and logical to look at how national jurisdictions interpret the law (eg. relevant titles of US code, British law and so on). [[User:Circusandmagicfan|Circusandmagicfan]] ([[User talk:Circusandmagicfan|talk]]) 21:57, 15 December 2008 (UTC)Circusandmagicfan

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