Talk:Arc-fault circuit interrupter: Difference between revisions

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==Copyright concerns==

{{Cv-unsure|url=http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arc-fault_circuit_interrupter&oldid=234201657|date=October 2008}}

24.123.59.74

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::<s>{{US patent|0204949}}</s> and {{US patent|8004802}}, both assigned to [[Eaton Corporation]] provide operational details and a few specifies. —[[user:EncMstr|EncMstr]] ([[user talk:EncMstr|talk]]) 09:55, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

:::Whoops. 204949 is a 19th century patent for muscialmusical isntrumentsinstruments. The other one seems relevant. What was the first patent number supposed to be? --[[User:Wtshymanski|Wtshymanski]] ([[User talk:Wtshymanski|talk]]) 17:47, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

::::Hmmm, [http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO1&Sect2=HITOFF&d=PG01&p=1&u=/netahtml/PTO/srchnum.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&s1=20080204949 this link] seems to have been intended, but it is a submission—not an actual patent. I have puzzled over it for a couple minutes, but I don't see a cross reference to a patent. —[[user:EncMstr|EncMstr]] ([[user talk:EncMstr|talk]]) 18:02, 8 February 2012 (UTC)

If there is no published, open-source specification on how a AFCI is supposed to work, then how can a AFCI device be certified safe and effective to use? --[[Special:Contributions/71.10.155.250|71.10.155.250]] ([[User talk:71.10.155.250|talk]]) 22:46, 26 November 2016 (UTC)

:

:As well as I know, it is the high frequencies usually generated by arcs. That is, the same physics as spark gap radio transmitters. [[User:Gah4|Gah4]] ([[User talk:Gah4|talk]]) 10:02, 20 March 2021 (UTC)

==Playful circuit interrupter==

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==Safety - but at what cost? ==

Just to note that AFCI and GFCI breakers are much more expensive than regular breakers. If I were to follow the NEC code (NFPA-70), over half the breakers in my 20 year old house would need to be replaced with AFCI's, which cost 5x more than conventional circuit breakers and might also be prone to false arc events. For my house, that would cost a minimum of $600 in materials alone. Section 210.12 of the 2014 NEC (regarding AFCI's) states: ''"All 120-volt, single-phase, 15- and 20-ampere branch circuits supplying outlets or devices installed in dwelling unit kitchens, family rooms, dining rooms, living rooms, parlors, libraries, dens, bedrooms, sunrooms, recreation rooms, closets, hallways, laundry areas, or similar rooms or areas shall be protected..."'' Plus I don't get an insurance discount for upgrading to AFCI's, and AFCI dual-breakers at 15- and 20-amp are not available to match my electrical box, so I would need to add a sub-panel too. At one time, NFPA was pushing to have new houses have sprinkler systems installed throughout thea new house too. Mandates like use of AFCI's (and also TR Tamper Resistant and WR Weather Resistant receptacles) don't offer much opportunity for [[risk management]]. To be compliant, the price must be paid, and I am bothered that the price is high and the benefits seem low to me, considering that I already have circuit breaker protection of all branch circuits, and GFCI's at all required locations,; as well has smoke detectors, CO detectors, and three ABC fire extinguishers. There is plenty of opportunity to debate the merits of AFCI's, but the mandate is IMO a hardship. I also suspect there may be cheaper techniques for preventing Arc Faults or their effects.

[[Special:Contributions/71.10.145.225|71.10.145.225]] ([[User talk:71.10.145.225|talk]]) 15:48, 15 November 2014 (UTC)

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:I researched it a year ago or more but have not gotten around to adding it to the article. I found that arcs have a repeating pulse pattern in the 100 kHz to 2 MHz range and this is the key characteristic that most—if not all—AFCIs are triggering upon. Generators and thunderstorms do not have those characteristics, so an AFCI would be safe with any combination of common power sources, even when struck by lightning. —[[user:EncMstr|EncMstr]] ([[user talk:EncMstr|talk]]) 05:54, 20 November 2014 (UTC)

=== Questions on AFCI behaviour under non-ideal power ''load''''Italic text'' conditions ===

And what of ''loads'' which are subject to drawing occasional transient current spikes ? For example an high-power audio amplifier fed from say an AM radio tuned to a weak station riddled with static interference. Could such loads cause nuisance tripping when AFCI's are utilized ? [[Special:Contributions/2.127.209.195|2.127.209.195]] ([[User talk:2.127.209.195|talk]]) 21:32, 24 May 2015 (UTC)

* This is unlikely since your radio probably has a AC-DC conversion, and whatever noise on the AM station is unlikely to propagate backwards onto the power line due to power supply filtering. From the standpoint of a "load", the AFCI sees an abstract device with a (likely regulated) DC power supply, not what is being received by the radio. Its the same with digital noise in your alarm clock or cell phone or any other device operating from DC conversion - noise gets filtered by the power supply before it shows on on the AFCI line. --[[Special:Contributions/2600:6C48:7006:200:D84D:5A80:173:901D|2600:6C48:7006:200:D84D:5A80:173:901D]] ([[User talk:2600:6C48:7006:200:D84D:5A80:173:901D|talk]]) 23:45, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

==AFCI standby power information requested ==

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:::If you are asking what the question/comment means in English, it from someone who says he works at Siemens in Argentina and wonders if a Spanish version of this article would be okay to write. —[[user:EncMstr|EncMstr]] ([[user talk:EncMstr|talk]]) 21:27, 7 December 2014 (UTC)

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== AFCIs warm? ==

I took infrared pictures of my panel and found that the AFCIs were warm. [[File:AFCIs Infrared.jpg|thumb| ]]

None of the other breakers were, and no special loads are on those circuits, certainly not on both of them. Curious if that is inherent to the design and how much energy is wasted by whatever heats them up. <!-- Template:Unsigned --><small class="autosigned">—&nbsp;Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[User:Tenbergen|Tenbergen]] ([[User talk:Tenbergen#top|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Tenbergen|contribs]]) 23:07, 12 January 2017 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

* this "thermal image" looks suspicious. Note the sharp corner and edge transitions between hot and cold regions. Plus it would be better to take such an image with the cover removed.--

[[Special:Contributions/2600:6C48:7006:200:D84D:5A80:173:901D|2600:6C48:7006:200:D84D:5A80:173:901D]] ([[User talk:2600:6C48:7006:200:D84D:5A80:173:901D|talk]]) 23:52, 27 May 2017 (UTC)

<s>It’s really amazing how much people use talk pages for electrical topics on Wikipedia to post DIY questions. I don’t think that’s what the tag pages for. Is there a talk page for the talk page where we can talk about these types of problems with the DIYers on the talk pages?</s>

== Power fault circuit interrupter ==

There are several references in this article to Power Fault Circuit Interrupters, but I cannot find any further information about them online. All I found are brief mentions in sites advertising proprietary receptacle products. I am marking these references as "citation needed" for now, but I think it would be good if someone with more knowledge in this area can either find citations or remove the references altogether. [[Special:Contributions/75.71.97.154|75.71.97.154]] ([[User talk:75.71.97.154|talk]]) 03:30, 19 November 2017 (UTC)

== Overspecific Limitations ==

There are a few claims under the limitations heading which seem pretty irrelevant for example:

<blockquote>Also, AFCIs provide no specific protection against ''glowing'' connections also known as a [[High Resistance Connection]], excess current, high line voltages or low line voltages. AFCI circuit breakers include a standard inverse-time circuit breaker. Glowing connections occur when relatively high current exists in a relatively large resistance object. Heat comes from power dissipation. This energy, when dissipated in a small junction area, can generate temperatures above 1000 °C (1800 °F) and can ignite most flammable materials.</blockquote>

Might as well say a bullet proof vest does not protect against drowning. Shall we keep this text or clean it up?

[[User:Bostwickenator|Bostwickenator]] ([[User talk:Bostwickenator|talk]]) 14:36, 5 January 2018 (UTC)

== National Electrical Code cleanup needed ==

Right now we have a nice summary of the US NEC requirements in 1999 and then new paragraphs for each year stating only the differences of how the Code changed from the previous revision. It is interesting as a history, but not so useful for people wanting to understand the present situation. It would be good if somebody merged them into a new first paragraph that summarizes the ''current'' state of the Electrical Code. [[User:Hackerb9|Ben]] ([[User talk:Hackerb9|talk]]) 04:12, 10 March 2021 (UTC)

:NB: the version of the current electrical code adopted (required) varies by state, so I favor keeping the current presentation. [[User:Gorbag42|Gorbag42]] ([[User talk:Gorbag42|talk]]) 01:42, 27 December 2023 (UTC)

== arc lamps ==

There is a section on causes of false positive triggering. I do wonder, though, about arc lamps, such as fluorescent lamps or HID lamps, which obviously also have an arc. Do they avoid them, and if so, how? [[User:Gah4|Gah4]] ([[User talk:Gah4|talk]]) 10:06, 20 March 2021 (UTC)