Talk:Executable and Linkable Format: Difference between revisions

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Does Mac OS X use ELF?? -- [[User:Mjanich|Michael]]

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:See [[Talk:Mac OS X]]. [[User:Dysprosia|Dysprosia]] 07:50, 30 Sep 2003 (UTC)

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::I thin also this should reference [[OLE]] [[Object linking and embedding]], which I think may embody the MS way and Maybe [[Component Object Model]] Where the [[*nix]] way is more of a [[Process model]] or some such. [[User:Quinobi|Quinobi]] 21:19, 9 July 2005 (UTC)

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== "Linkable" to "Linking" Name Change from TIS 1.1 to TIS 1.2 ==

== sources ==

[http://www.mr511.de/software/english.html free ELF object file access library] might want to change to this link, old link redirects to here!

I added the reference to the TIS 1.1 spec and removed the {citation needed} tag from the first mention of the pages name in the lede. I was hoping to find some acknowledgement or explanation in the TIS 1.2 ELF specification referenced concerning the change from the name "Executable and Linkable Format", which is found throughout the TIS 1.1 specification, to "Executable and Linking Format". Does anyone know of a source of information for why and when the name was changed, and whether it was in fact officially changed by the TIS committee? [[User:DonaldLflr|DonaldLflr]] ([[User talk:DonaldLflr|talk]]) 21:34, 6 September 2021 (UTC)

== Jacksum ==

== Wrong value of "e_phoff" in the attached diagram? ==

If ELF-32 indeed means the checksum used by this executable format, then it might make sense to add this link (and some explanation):

* [[Jacksum]] — by Dipl.-Inf. (FH) Johann N. Löfflmann in [[Java programming language|Java]]. Various message verification functions. Released under the [[GNU General Public License|GPL]].

Otherwise, please correct the [[Jacksum]] article. [[User:Gerbrant|Shinobu]] 16:47, 24 October 2005 (UTC)

The example ELF header shown in the diagram is for a 32-bit architecture, so I think ''e_phoff'' field should have value 0x34, not 0x40. This would also require an adjustment in the "Program header table" part of the diagram (the heading before raw bytes of the section which currently reads "Offset:0x40/Address:0x8000040" should be changed to "Offset:0x34/Address:0x8000034"). [[Special:Contributions/37.128.124.190|37.128.124.190]] ([[User talk:37.128.124.190|talk]]) 08:58, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

== outperform != not a competitor ==

:No, 0x40 is correct. On the left side you can see the ph starts at the 65th byte. A program header does not always have to start after the ELF header, though it's very common. Not sure why the author added some padding bytes after the ELF header. [[User:INSANETAURUS|INSANETAURUS]] ([[User talk:INSANETAURUS|talk]]) 16:59, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

This sentence doesn't make sense:

== Typo (".shrtrtab") in the attached diagram ==

''Because other formats are proprietary, platform-specific, or less extensible than ELF, some users hold that ELF outperforms other formats, whereas others may consider it a competitor to the other format''

".shstrtab" is erroneously spelled as ".shrtrtab" in "SECTIONS' NAMES" and "SECTION HEADER TABLE" parts of the attached ELF format diagram. [[Special:Contributions/37.128.124.190|37.128.124.190]] ([[User talk:37.128.124.190|talk]]) 09:07, 30 January 2023 (UTC)

I can't tell what is trying to be said. Are we suggesting that some people think that ELF's openness and flexibility make it far beyond the alternatives (to the extent that the alternatives are not options, but relics)? Even if so, the sentence doesn't read well. The first part does not contradict the second (as expected when using whereas). One competitor may outperform the alternatives.

:Any string table section can be called anything, though some ELF analyzing tools might not work if an unconventional name is used. The sh_type member just has to be correct. [[User:INSANETAURUS|INSANETAURUS]] ([[User talk:INSANETAURUS|talk]]) 17:16, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

How about something more like:

''Since it is nonproprietary, platform-agnostic, and extensible, many users consider ELF to be far beyond its competitors.''

== Reads like a fraction of a specification instead of just including the specification documents ==

Or perhaps remove the line entirely.

Since this is an encyclopedia and the ELF specifications are very readable, why is this respecifying the format instead of referencing the specification or embedding an archived copy (if its copyright allows) ? [[User:TristanDC|TristanDC]] ([[User talk:TristanDC|talk]]) 09:47, 17 February 2024 (UTC)

--[[User:JamesBrownJr|JamesBrownJr]] 21:10, 6 June 2006 (UTC)

: Because most of our technical articles are terrible paraphrases of the manual, and this is no exception. It needs the reference content removed entirely and reformatted around the format's ''purpose'' and ''use'', like proper articles. [[User:Thumperward|Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward)]] ([[User talk:Thumperward|talk]]) 09:05, 28 March 2024 (UTC)

== ELF Problems ==

:: {{user|INSANETAURUS}} just used their first ever edit (though it might be {{user|88.238.58.190}}, who just argued the same thing on my talk) to restore this under the non-rationale [[WP:USEFUL]]. As this isn't a compelling argument, I'll be removing it again in due course: this isn't a reference manual and anyone using it as such would be far better off using the real thing. [[User:Thumperward|Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward)]] ([[User talk:Thumperward|talk]]) 16:41, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

Someone should add a section about ELF's significant problems, especially regarding dynamic linking semantics. See: [http://autopackage.org/forums/viewtopic.php?t=416] and [http://plan99.net/autopackage/Linux_Problems]

:::I am not 88.238.58.190. Without the attached diagram and the tables, I would have had no starting point for programming my own x86 assembler. Genuine specifications like the System V ABI do not include an example ELF binary, therefore the attached diagram was a very useful ressource. [[User:INSANETAURUS|INSANETAURUS]] ([[User talk:INSANETAURUS|talk]]) 17:09, 3 April 2024 (UTC)

:::: [[WP:NOTGUIDE|Wikipedia is not a reference source]], and anything here which is not directly associated with an ''actual'' source is user-generated and thus no more reliable than a random Wordpress blog. [[User:Thumperward|Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward)]] ([[User talk:Thumperward|talk]]) 21:11, 6 April 2024 (UTC)

:::::The goal of Wikipedia is to benefit its readers. Nothing on the ELF page can be seen as a manual or an article about how to create ELF binaries. I obviously did not soley use Wikipedia to learn about ELF binaries, just as a starting point. Your edit to remove the images and tables on the ELF page made the page less beneficial. I do agree, however, that the ELF page is a bit bloated. [[User:INSANETAURUS|INSANETAURUS]] ([[User talk:INSANETAURUS|talk]]) 15:15, 7 April 2024 (UTC)

:::::: Again, no. [[WP:USEFUL|How useful something is is not the arbiter of inclusion]]. It can just as easily be used as a starting point by ''linking'' to the reference documents rather than by trying to act as a manual in its own right. [[User:Thumperward|Chris Cunningham (user:thumperward)]] ([[User talk:Thumperward|talk]]) 10:03, 8 April 2024 (UTC)

:::::::Trying to act as manual '''≠''' actual manual. Your edit removed the 'Specifications' section even though no one complained about that section. [[User:INSANETAURUS|INSANETAURUS]] ([[User talk:INSANETAURUS|talk]]) 17:22, 8 April 2024 (UTC)