Wikipedia:Graphics Lab/Photography workshop/Archive/Jan 2012: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 07:01, 31 January 2012

Latest revision as of 07:38, 14 April 2024

(28 intermediate revisions by 15 users not shown)

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File:Thomas Nettleship Staley.jpg

File:Bernice Pauahi Bishop, age twenty-three.jpg

File:Kekuanaoa3Kekuanaoa (Bishop Museum, G73789).jpg

File:Wedding portrait of Mr. and Mrs. Charles Reed Bishop, June 4, 1850.jpg

File:John Papa ĪīIi.jpg

File:Lunalilo1.jpg

File:Lunalilo2.jpg

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<center><gallery>

File:Susan Walker 2850362011Fitzgerald 353f158a31(ca o1913).jpg

</gallery></center>

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:[http://www.allposters.com/-sp/The-Siege-of-Sparta-by-Pyrrhus-1799-1800-Posters_i1585999_.htm This] version is better and easier to remove watermark from. If Quibik is around, his extraction of the original jpg from the zoomable preview would help a lot (I can get high-res version, but can not guarantee it is the original jpg, and here the higher resolution, the better). [[User:Materialscientist|Materialscientist]] ([[User talk:Materialscientist|talk]]) 00:51, 1 January 2012 (UTC)

::You probably had the Dezoomify script ([http://sourceforge.net/p/dezoomify/wiki/Home/ this], for anyone wondering) in mind. Unfortunately, Allposters.com does not use Zoomify, so that script will not work. I did find an alternative way to retrieve a reasonably large unwatermarked version. It is slightly blurrier than the watermarked version, though, so combining these two versions is a good idea. I wrote a JavaScript script (a [[bookmarklet]]) that gets both the watermarked and unwatermarked large images, in case anyone might want to get any other images from there:

:::<syntaxhighlight lang="JavaScript" enclose="div">

javascript:r = /http:\/\/imagecache5d\.allposters\.com\/watermarker\/([^.]+)\.\D+(\d+)\D+(\d+)/.exec(document.body.innerHTML); if (!r) {alert("Failed to find the link. Sorry.");} else {window.open(r, Math.random()); window.open("http://frame.allposters.com/frameimagehandler/universal/frameimage.jpg?frame=[FAP:0+PRT:[PRW=" + r[3] + "|PRH=" + r[2] + "|PIP=\\" + r[1].replace(/-/g, '\\') + ".jpg]+QLT:101+MXW:" + r[3] + "+MXH:" + r[2] + "]", Math.random());} void(0);

</syntaxhighlight>

::And another one for [http://www.art.com art.com], since it is pretty much the same website:

:::<syntaxhighlight lang="JavaScript" enclose="div">

javascript:r = /popHighzoomImage\(([^,]+),([^,]+),[^,]+,'-?([^.]+)/.exec(document.body.innerHTML); r2 = /http:\/\/cache2\.artprintimages\.com\/p\/LRG\/([^\/]+\/[^\/]+\/[^\/]+)/.exec(document.body.innerHTML); if (!r || !r2) {alert("Failed to find the link. Sorry.");} else {window.open("http://imagecache5d.art.com/watermarker/" + r[3] + ".jpg", Math.random()); window.open("http://frame.artprintimages.com/frameimagehandler/universal/frameimage.jpg?frame=[FAP:0+PRT:[PRW=" + r[1] + "|PRH=" + r[2] + "|PIP=\\" + r2[1].replace(/\//g, '\\') + ".jpg]+QLT:101+MXW:" + r[1] + "+MXH:" + r[2] + "]", Math.random());} void(0);

</syntaxhighlight>

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{{Done}}: when the request is done. -->

==Cathedral==

{{resolved|1=<i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b></i>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger|</i>&nbsp;<b style="color:#3CB371">&#9993;</b>]]}}

<gallery align="center">

File:Moscow, Catholic Church in Presnya.jpg|Remove...

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'''Article(s):''' Cathedral of the Immaculate Conception of the Holy Virgin Mary (Moscow)

'''Request:''' ...cars; (brighten it up, so it won't be looking so depressing); retouch nave's wall; remove the spotlight in front of the wall. Thanks.[[User:GreatOrangePumpkin|<span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'><font; color=:orange;">[[User:GreatOrangePumpkin|♫GoP♫]]</font></span>_{]][[User talk:GreatOrangePumpkin|<fontsub colorstyle="color:red;">T</fontsub>]]}^{[[Special:Contributions/GreatOrangePumpkin|<fontsup colorstyle="color:red;">C</fontsup>]]}<sub>[[Special:NewPages|<fontsub style="color=:red;">N</fontsub>]]</sup> 18:07, 2 January 2012 (UTC)

'''Graphist opinion(s):'''

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{{Done}} As requested. [[User:Nagualdesign|nagualdesign]] ([[User talk:Nagualdesign|talk]]) 06:43, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

::Thanks. Can you remove the other car? That would be excellent. [[User:GreatOrangePumpkin|<span style="font-family: 'Comic Sans MS'><font; color=:orange;">[[User:GreatOrangePumpkin|♫GoP♫]]</font></span>_{]][[User talk:GreatOrangePumpkin|<fontsub colorstyle="color:red;">T</fontsub>]]}^{[[Special:Contributions/GreatOrangePumpkin|<fontsup colorstyle="color:red;">C</fontsup>]]}<sub>[[Special:NewPages|<fontsub style="color=:red;">N</fontsub>]]</sup> 12:57, 3 January 2012 (UTC)

== Don Laughlin ==

{{resolved|1=<i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b></i>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger|</i>&nbsp;<b style="color:#3CB371">&#9993;</b>]]}}

<gallery align="center">

Don Laughlin poses with patrons.jpg|Don Laughlin (left)

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{{resolved|1=[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]])}}

<gallery align="center">

File:Poster for Mutiny on the Bounty.jpg|Poster for ''Mutiny on the Bounty'' (1962)| </br>{{Done}}

File:Poster - Mutiny on the Bounty (1935).jpg|Poster for ''Mutiny on the Bounty'' (1935)| </br>{{Done}}

File:Poster - Billy Rose's Jumbo.jpg|Poster for ''Billy Rose's Jumbo''| </br>{{Done}}

File:Poster - Long Day's Journey into Night.jpg|Poster for ''Long Day's Journey into Night''| </br>{{Done}}

</gallery>

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{{Done}} Sorry Fallschirmjäger! [[User:Nagualdesign|nagualdesign]] ([[User talk:Nagualdesign|talk]]) 11:48, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

:No worries! <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b></i>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger|</i>&nbsp;<b style="color:#3CB371">&#9993;</b>]] 11:50, 6 January 2012 (UTC)

==Hurricane damage==

{{resolved}}

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<gallery align="center">

File:Archibald Cleghorn with family and grandchildren (PP-96-10-006).jpg

</gallery>

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<!-- nothing or {{resolved|1=~~~}} or {{Stale|1=~~~}} -->

<gallery align="center">

File:Maria II 18361833.png|Maria II, 1836

File:Maria II 1852.png|Maria II, 1852

</gallery>

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<!-- nothing or {{resolved|1=~~~}} or {{Stale|1=~~~}} -->

<gallery align="center">

File:Queen Moe of Raiatea.jpg|What the end result should hopefully look like

File:King Tamatoa V of Raiatea.jpg

</gallery>

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<!-- nothing or {{resolved|1=~~~}} or {{Stale|1=~~~}} -->

<gallery align="center">

File:Kaiulani in Boston, 1893, photograph by E.Elmer Chickering.jpg|Minimal crop, remove number on her left, and the watermark on her right sleeve

File:KaiulaniholdingflowersKaiulani holding flowers.jpg|Minimal crop, repair crack and remove copyright sign

</gallery>

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{{resolved|1=[[User:Crisco 1492|Crisco 1492]] ([[User talk:Crisco 1492|talk]])}}

<gallery align="center">

File:Mantis in lace poster.jpg|''Mantis in Lace''| </br>{{Done}}

File:Farmers daughters poster.jpg|''The Farmer's Daughters''| </br>{{Done}}

File:Devil in miss jones poster.jpg|''The Devil in Miss Jones''| </br>{{Done}}

File:Sweet sweetback poster.jpg|''Sweet Sweetback's Baadasssss Song''| </br>{{Done}}

</gallery>

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'''Request:''' Crop and remove graininess which you can detect when you zoom in. Try not to crop the last two but to restore the corners. Thank you. [[User:KAVEBEAR|KAVEBEAR]] ([[User talk:KAVEBEAR|talk]]) 05:13, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

'''Graphist opinion(s):''' IMO these images should be restored to their original resolution (iei.e., much smaller size). Even Internet Explorer does a better job at bilinear interpolation than the software that created these 'enlargements'. I'll do the last one to show you what I mean... [[User:Nagualdesign|nagualdesign]] ([[User talk:Nagualdesign|talk]]) 10:00, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

:Okay. Could you do the rest except the first two which are different?--[[User:KAVEBEAR|KAVEBEAR]] ([[User talk:KAVEBEAR|talk]]) 19:38, 15 January 2012 (UTC)

::Kavebear, Please be aware that bigger isn't always better. My last 2 reverts (see above) were because the newer versions (which you uploaded) were very badly pixelated - which is the very reason that you have asked for them to be restored! May I ask, are scanning these images yourself? Perhaps I could offer you some advice.. [[User:Nagualdesign|nagualdesign]] ([[User talk:Nagualdesign|talk]]) 01:08, 17 January 2012 (UTC)

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'''Article(s):''' [[Art_Deco]]

'''Request:''' This is the [http://maps.google.com/maps/place?q=*&hl=en&cid=11975085708061345818 Century movie theater] built in the 1990's1990s. The building and a nearby parking garage were designed in the Art Deco style so it is a complement to the architect that it was confused with the 1928 [http://maps.google.com/maps/place?q=majestic+ventura+theatre&cid=7863045915199055341 Majestic Ventura Theatre] around the corner at 26 South Chestnut Street, Ventura, CA. The photo of the Majestic Ventura Theatre at number 34 on the [[National_Register_of_Historic_Places_listings_in_Ventura_County,_California]] is correct. You can also verify the address looking at No. 24 on the [http://www.cityofventura.net/files/community_development/planning/current_planning/resources/historic_landmarks.pdf CITY OF SAN BUENAVENTURA HISTORIC LANDMARKS & DISTRICTS] (PDF). I work nearby so I have first hand knowledge of the two buildings as you can also see using google street view.

[[User:Fettlemap|Fettlemap]] ([[User talk:Fettlemap|talk]]) 01:04, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

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{{resolved}}

[[File:Fluworôze egzostozes1-800h.jpg|thumb|center|alt=knobby hoofed leg|MorrocanMoroccan cow with fluorosis, from industrial contamination]]

'''Article(s):''' [[Fluorine]]

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'''Article(s):''' [[Alex Carter (British actor)|Alex Carter]]

'''Request:''' Could someone please crop the image for use in aan ibox. [[User:D4nnyw14|D4nnyw14]] ([[User talk:D4nnyw14|talk]]) 16:20, 20 January 2012 (UTC)

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==Capsule==

{{resolved}}

[[File:Kapsula.gifpng|center|250px]]

'''Article(s):''' [[Fluorine]]

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File:Kuhio's dog.png

File:'The Prince of Hawaii' oil on canvas painting by Enoch Wood Perry, Jr., 1865.jpg

File:Albert Kamehameha's dog (1Glen of Imaal terrier).png

File:Albert Kamehameha's dog (2French bulldog).png

File:John Mix Stanley - 'Hawaiian Girl with Dog', oil on canvas, 1849, Bernice P. Bishop Museum.jpg

File:John Mix Stanley - Hawaiian dog, 1849.png

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'''Article(s):''' probable [[Hawaiian Poi Dog]]

'''Request:''' Please crop out the dogs and upload seperateseparate images of them. Thanks. [[User:KAVEBEAR|KAVEBEAR]] ([[User talk:KAVEBEAR|talk]]) 06:54, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

'''Graphist opinion(s):'''

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:::PNG because it is a bitmapped image format that employs lossless data compression and some of souce files are rather poor. [[User:PawełMM|PawełMM]] ([[User talk:PawełMM|talk]]) 09:15, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

== image layout ==

{{resolved|1=<i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b></i>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger|</i>&nbsp;<b style="color:#3CB371">&#9993;</b>]]}}

{{Gallery

{{Image gallery

|title=Elemental fluorine

|width=300

|hightheight=150

|lines=3

|align=center

|File:Moissan color images.jpg|alt1=Three circles: left is same color as background (old paper somewhat tanned); middle is very light yellow; right is more yellow.|An 1892 observation of fluorine gas (middle), compared to air (left) and chlorine (right): the observation was done looking down 5 meter long tubes.

|File:Alpha-fluorine-unit-cell-B-3D-vdW.png|alt2=A parallelogram-shaped outline with space-filling diatomic molecules (joined circles) arranged in two layers|Solid alpha-fluorine's crystal structure: fluorine molecules lie in shingled layers.

}}

Line 904 ⟶ 903:

'''Graphist opinion(s):'''

{{Done}} - I added whitespace to pad the left image out, they both the same ratio now. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b></i>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger|</i>&nbsp;<b style="color:#3CB371">&#9993;</b>]] 21:06, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

:Added table layout also. <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b></i>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger|</i>&nbsp;<b style="color:#3CB371">&#9993;</b>]] 21:11, 21 January 2012 (UTC)

== Alan Halsall and Natalie Cassidy ==

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'''Article(s):''' [[Alan Halsall]], [[Natalie Cassidy]]

'''Request:''' Can 2 crops be made from this image to use on each of the actors articles. Alan Halsall is wearing the Black jacket/coat , Natalie Cassidy is the female on the opposite end.[[User:Raintheone|'''<span style="color:blue;font-family:Times New Roman">Rain</span>''']] <small>[[User talk:Raintheone|<font color="green">'''the 1'''</font>]]</small> 17:03, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

'''Graphist opinion(s):'''

{{I take|Fallschirmjäger}} 18:05, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

:{{Done}} - <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b></i>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger|</i>&nbsp;<b style="color:#3CB371">&#9993;</b>]] 18:16, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

:::Thankyou very much Fallschirmjäger :)[[User:Raintheone|'''<span style="color:blue;font-family:Times New Roman">Rain</span>''']] <small>[[User talk:Raintheone|<font color="green">'''the 1'''</font>]]</small> 18:25, 22 January 2012 (UTC)

::::Your're welcome. Kind regards, <i style="text-shadow:grey 0.2em 0.2em 0.4em;">[[User:Fallschirmjäger|<b style="color:#4D5D53">Fallschirm</b><b style="color:#2E8B57">jäger</b>]]<b style="color:#701"></b></i>[[User talk:Fallschirmjäger|</i>&nbsp;<b style="color:#3CB371">&#9993;</b>]] 21:21, 23 January 2012 (UTC)

== fix aspect ratios ==

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I have gotten HUGE HELP from each of you. (JBarta just did a bunch of assists for me. He and I just like to joke around about things. He's the pretty girl at the bar and I'm the fat friend...we make jokes like that. ;-))

I want to keep the light color. I know the argument that it is a false manipulation, but the issue is that people are looking at it in article and it is small and embedded in text and seen on a computer screen(probalyprobably a flat panel display), so if it is a dark blotch, they may pass on looking at it. Like it clean and simple (so light is good).

I'm not even joking (don't hurt me Hammer!) but as long as we are "cheating", '''could you please cut the chair out that is above the man's face and just clone in some background or the like'''? [[User:TCO|TCO]] ([[User:TCO#Reviews needed|Reviews needed]]) 00:03, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

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*By "his" article I mean that of the editors who have commented here he is the only one with a history of contributing to the article and its development. He is also the one who posted the image and asked for help with it to best use as an illustration. He asked for a more neutral background and I provided what I thought he wanted to which he replied ''"I like the modified version. Thanks, man. (no offense to others that I have huge respect for). I just value the appearance in thumb. Have a busy article and cleaner, more simple pics help me."'' Because of his intimate connection to, manifested interest in, and established status as a developer of the article, I think TCO's view as to how to use the illustration deserves defference of everyone in here just as I would deffer to any other editor in the same circumstances.

*As for background in digital image restoration and "retouching" I have been doing this professionally for more thenthan fifteen years as you can see from my [http://digitalimageservices.com '''website''']. I repeat, however, this is not a "competition" so please don't treat is as such. TCO brought the illustration here and he should therefore be the final arbiter as to which one best serves the purpose that he is trying to achieve. As I have said several times now, he is free to accept or reject either of my two versions, those of any other contributor, or to use the original. But the choice should be up to him as the original requester and the party with the greatest interest in its use without that being hijacked by anyone else. [[User:Centpacrr|Centpacrr]] ([[User talk:Centpacrr|talk]]) 03:35, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

::I'm not sure why you thought I was treating this as a competition. I thought your original attempt was a bit slapdash is all, and I was merely trying to offer my own suggestion. To upload it I necessarily had to 'overwrite' yours, but I said beforehand what I was going to do and why, and the revert button is still fully operational. Seriously Centpacrr, nobody is having a go at anyone here and there's no need to get your hackles up. I'm sure you must agree that the 'lightened as requested' image was not one of your best. I totally agree that TCO should be free to choose whichever image, too (hence offering a choice), but I strongly disagree with the idea of "the party with the greatest interest" and especially with the word "hijacked"! Wikipedia is a collaborative effort, so I've said and done my bit. I was just trying to offer a 'third way', not play piggy in the middle. I don't want to get into an argument, thanks. [[User:Nagualdesign|nagualdesign]] ([[User talk:Nagualdesign|talk]]) 09:24, 24 January 2012 (UTC)

Line 1,088 ⟶ 1,087:

File:Alexander Brodie.jpg|Oval crop

File:Joseph Henry Kibbey-oval.jpg|Oval crop

File:Richard E Sloan.png|Oval crop

File:Lieutenant Colonel John Baylor.gif|Clean up noise and repair rim

</gallery>

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{{Done}}: when the request is done. -->

Here we go again ;-) I have to say, that your approach of wishing to manipulate these images in this fashion is unacceptable in my opinion. The result is a visibly doctored image that is inferior to the original. The fact that some editors may attempt to accomodateaccommodate your wishes in this regard is not entirely helpful. That said, a bit of rotation in this instance *would* be helpful, and that I'm willing to do cheerfully. Rotation would indeed make it a ''better'' image. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Jbarta|JBarta]] ([[User talk:Jbarta#top|talk]]) 03:59, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

:OK.[[User:TCO|TCO]] ([[User talk:TCO|talk]]) 04:07, 25 January 2012 (UTC)

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I hope I don't turn JB into hating me or reverting or edit warring my document. I know he knows a lot and value it. I wasn't kissing his ass when I said thank you on the wonderful work on the tables...I really meant the appreciation. I could not have done what he did...and what he did made my article look more organized.

I am trying to conributecontribute and think I have done a lot to make fluorine article better (which is a huge view article and very important to education and even industry). I DO want to get others ideas and such...at the same time, I kind of think that articles benefit from at least pseudo owners. (I guess I am Wiki politically incorrect.) There are vast stretches of very important articles (huge viewing) that are far from completed compositions and I think allowing the person working on them some lattitudelatitude is the best policy. The edit warring can be a real turnoff (for instance, I avoid any article with a name war or other things like that).

P.s. And this is minor (as I had space for this image) but in general wide aspect shots are preferred because they fit better within text wrapping.

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<gallery align="center">

File:Miles Higson.jpg|Miles Higson

File:Gemma Pranita 19 March, 2011.jpg|Gemma Pranita

File:PJ Brennan.jpg|PJ Brennan

</gallery>

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<!-- nothing or {{resolved|1=~~~}} or {{Stale|1=~~~}} -->

<gallery align="center">

File:Duke Kahanamoku c1912.jpg

File:DukeKahanamoku.jpeg

File:Kinau (head, 1837).jpg|Remove cut off individual at right with background instead

</gallery>

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<!-- nothing or {{resolved|1=~~~}} or {{Stale|1=~~~}} -->

<gallery align="center">

File:Diana Hayden FilmiTadka.JPG

</gallery>

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{{Done}}: (Spots were in the original as well) &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Jbarta|JBarta]] ([[User talk:Jbarta#top|talk]]) 18:14, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

== Toronto subway car: color distortion ==

{{resolved|1=[[User:Centpacrr|Centpacrr]] ([[User talk:Centpacrr|talk]])}}

<!-- nothing or {{resolved|1=~~~}} or {{Stale|1=~~~}} -->

<gallery align="center">

File:Toronto Subway Train Type H2 Interior.jpg|Toronto Subway Train Type H4 (not H2) Interior

</gallery>

'''Article(s):''' [[H-series (Toronto subway car)]], [[Toronto subway and RT rolling stock]], and several on non-English Wikipedias

'''Request:''' For some reason the color in this image is significantly exaggerated. I've just done a web search for other images of these cars (which were just retired from service) and [http://torontoist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/20120127-TTC-D4-Final-Run8-Corbin_Smith.jpg This one] from a web publication best shows what they really looked like. Please adjust the color in the Wikipedia image to resemble the other one.

Note: This is a shared IP address; please do not respond to this IP address's talk page, as I probably won't see it. Just please fix the image, or don't, as you see fit. [[Special:Contributions/142.205.241.254|142.205.241.254]] ([[User talk:142.205.241.254|talk]]) 23:54, 27 January 2012 (UTC)

'''Graphist opinion(s):'''{{Done}} Please advise if this accurately reflects the correct hues. <small>(If the colors appear unchanged just reload the page to be sure that you are no longer seeing the original version still stored in your browser's cache.)</small>[[User:Centpacrr|Centpacrr]] ([[User talk:Centpacrr|talk]]) 00:16, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

:Added note: Since posting the adjusted image I have shown both versions to a friend in Toronto who told me that some of the older versions of this model of subway car had red seats so the original version of the image may have been an accurate representation of the particular car photographed. [[User:Centpacrr|Centpacrr]] ([[User talk:Centpacrr|talk]]) 01:15, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

::Chalk me up as thinking the original is almost certainly representative of the colors at that time and place. I think the original photo is fine, though maybe could stand an ever-so-slight desaturation. Reminds me of the [[Wikipedia:Graphic_Lab/Photography_workshop/Archive/Nov_2011#From_dark_haired_to_blond|blond girl issue]] a while back. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Jbarta|JBarta]] ([[User talk:Jbarta#top|talk]]) 01:41, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

:::My friend from Toronto told me that my color corrected version is more representative of how the majority of these cars appeared when taken out of service so that one would seem to be preferable to the older saturated one. [[User:Centpacrr|Centpacrr]] ([[User talk:Centpacrr|talk]]) 02:23, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

::::It's not just a matter of saturation, it's a matter of distinctly different colors. We have to ask ourselves, as an encyclopedia, do we owe the reader unadulterated photos, or doctored images showing things as we think they ought to be? I might also suggest that a clear photo of the car at a particular time and place is a reliable source (as WP defines it) and a friend of an editor is not. I think if it's felt the original photo is somehow misrepresentative, then a better solution than altering the photo is to find another photo that is believed to be more representative. In the meantime, the photo caption or description can explain that not all seats were red (or they are no longer red) if that's considered an important note. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Jbarta|JBarta]] ([[User talk:Jbarta#top|talk]]) 02:52, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

:::::I have tweaked the coloring of the seats so that it most closely matches that in all the other images I have been able to find of these cars. I have not found any other image matching the reddish tinting in the original version, and my friend in Toronto has not been able to be very specific as to what he means by "red seats" in older cars as he only remembers them as a child. Also the coloring in the original image seems to be unreliable as the yellow partitions by the doors are also different (tending orange) then those in any other images which also indicates that the colors in original picture are not accurate. The current version is thus the one that is best supported by the universe of available comparative images of the interiors of these now retired Toronto subway cars and needs no further adjustment. [[User:Centpacrr|Centpacrr]] ([[User talk:Centpacrr|talk]]) 04:14, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

::::::I tend to agree with Centpacrr here. There's nothing to say that the original image hasn't been doctored in some way, or that the whitebalance and other factors are a bit off (it's cetainly a little over-saturated). Provided that we are conscientious in our 'doctoring' - performing our due diligence in an attempt to be more ''truthful'' - we needn't worry about the provenance of a may-or-may-not-be ''reliable'' source. The camera lies. ..But it's when editors veer into non-reality that JB and I begin to agree that less is usually more. [[User:Nagualdesign|nagualdesign]] ([[User talk:Nagualdesign|talk]]) 06:10, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

:::::::Couple comments.... Wikipedia (for better or worse), is more interested in [[WP:V|verifiability than "truth"]]. This is very important. Also, viewing the [http://www.flickr.com/photos/denmar/118562264/meta/in/photostream/ exif data] of the photo we can see it was taken in 2006 by what appears to be a reasonably decent camera and no mention is made on the flickr page of altering the colors. The logical and reasonable assumption is that the photo accurately captures what was on that car on that date (plus some probable post-processing to enhance the colors). Now, if you wish to alter the image colors materially for whatever reason, I suppose that's fine, but at the very least it should be uploaded as a separate image and such modifications clearly noted on the image description page. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Jbarta|JBarta]] ([[User talk:Jbarta#top|talk]]) 08:37, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

::::::::Making any such an assumption seems to me to be neither logical nor reasonable as there is no way to tell how white balance, color temperature, and/or any other adjustable parameter had been set when the image was made let alone how the raw digital file may have been manipulated subsequently. (The fact that the partitions are pale orange instead of yellow clearly indicates that the colors in the original posted file are false, and the exif data also shows that the file had been processed by Adobe Photoshop Elements 4.0 Windows.) All that I did to the image was adjust the hues to conform as closely as I could to those in all the other online images that I could find of the same type of Toronto subway car (such as [http://torontoist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/20120127-TTC-D4-Final-Run8-Corbin_Smith.jpg '''this image''']) which I used as a guide to verify the accuracy of these adjustments. That, after all, is what the editor who posted the image had requested in the first place. [[User:Centpacrr|Centpacrr]] ([[User talk:Centpacrr|talk]]) 09:25, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::I found [http://www.blogto.com/city/2012/01/a_last_ride_on_the_ttcs_h4_subway_before_its_scrapped/ this]. I would concede that this orange color could very well have been the color of the seats before the flickr photographer messed with the coloring. If you were to change the colors to match these images and note on the image description page what you did, why you did it and include a link to the images I mentioned, then that would be perfectly acceptable as far as I'm concerned. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Jbarta|JBarta]] ([[User talk:Jbarta#top|talk]]) 10:52, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

::::::::::Those are among the several images I used as a guide as well as [http://torontoist.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/20120127-TTC-D4-Final-Run8-Corbin_Smith.jpg '''this one''']. [[User:Centpacrr|Centpacrr]] ([[User talk:Centpacrr|talk]]) 11:03, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::::But the seats in your current edit are distinctly brown. Can you change it to more orange as in the photos I mention (or even the one you mention). I stress orange over brown because I did notice a few references here and there to the old "orange bench seats". And in the link I just posted, if you scroll down there are some closeup shots of the seats which show them as definitely orange. Can you mimic that color? &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Jbarta|JBarta]] ([[User talk:Jbarta#top|talk]]) 11:13, 28 January 2012 (UTC)

::::::::::::Much better, though to my eye not quite getting the orangey color of the other photos. I took the liberty of making my own edit. Hopefully it captures the colors correctly. I also followed your suggestion in picking up the spilled coffee cup. Further, I edited the image description page so anyone wondering why the colors were changed from red to orange will get an explanation. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Jbarta|JBarta]] ([[User talk:Jbarta#top|talk]]) 01:18, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::::::In situations like this it's often best not to judge colour by eye. Human colour perception can be highly fallible. I've uploaded a version which I made with the assistance of the eyedropper tool and Info box (in Photoshop). That way I could read off the values in multiple locations as I was tweeking the adjustment, and make sure they accurately ''reflect'' the colours in one of the other photos. By 'reflect' I mean that it's also necessary to take the ambient lighting into account. Good call on the seat colours. Shame we had to upload so many different versions though. ''Little by little we progress.'' [[User:Nagualdesign|nagualdesign]] ([[User talk:Nagualdesign|talk]]) 04:02, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

::::::::::::::The variations in shading in the images of the vinyl seat covering of this H4 car is all speculative, of course, as there were 78 of them built in 1974-75 and most remained in constant service for over 35 years. With three-and-a-half decades of wear, repair, replacement during routine maintenance, and periodic refurbishment, it is perfectly possible if not likely that the seats in this fleet could have looked quite different over the years. That being the case, any one of these versions (except probably for the original from flickr) is likely as "accurate" as any of the others and thus further speculative tweaking would pretty much be a waste of time. [[User:Centpacrr|Centpacrr]] ([[User talk:Centpacrr|talk]]) 05:28, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

:::::::::::::::Whilst I broadly agree with everything that you're saying I think it fair to point out that if we are going to 'transplant' colour from one source to another then we should do so as accurately as possible and hope that the source is good, otherwise we are simply producing a 3rd colour which is pure invention. [[User:Nagualdesign|nagualdesign]] ([[User talk:Nagualdesign|talk]]) 05:46, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

::::::::::::::::Please see the original posted request above. The requester pointed out that the seat color in the original flickr image was clearly way out of range and thus asked that it be adjusted to resemble as closely as possible that in an image representative of its known color range. I wasn't trying to "invent" anything. [[User:Centpacrr|Centpacrr]] ([[User talk:Centpacrr|talk]]) 18:57, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

[[User:142.205.241.254|@142.205.241.254]], if the image definitely shows a Type H4 (and not a Type H2) it may be appropriate to request that the image be renamed. Unfortunately I can't remember how to do it and you (not being autoconfimed) might not be allowed. Perhaps you could tell us how you know that it isn't a H2, and somebody might be able to assist. [[User:Nagualdesign|nagualdesign]] ([[User talk:Nagualdesign|talk]]) 05:00, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

:Anyone can request a rename by inserting a [[:commons:Template:Rename|<nowiki>{{rename}}</nowiki>]] template but only a [[:commons:Commons:File_renaming|filemover]] can actually rename the file and only if it follows the rename guidelines. If the name is misrepresentative of what the image actually is, then that's a perfectly valid reason. Before requesting a rename however it would be good to not only be sure, but to offer some sort of evidence that it's actually misnamed. Once a rename template is placed, it takes anywhere from a couple hours to a couple days for a filemover to wander over and either perform the rename, or remove your request with a reason why. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Jbarta|JBarta]] ([[User talk:Jbarta#top|talk]]) 06:55, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

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== Danny Mac, Matt Milburn, Sikander Malik and Kieron Richardson ==

Line 1,414 ⟶ 1,375:

[[User:142.205.241.254|@142.205.241.254]], if the image definitely shows a Type H4 (and not a Type H2) it may be appropriate to request that the image be renamed. Unfortunately I can't remember how to do it and you (not being autoconfimed) might not be allowed. Perhaps you could tell us how you know that it isn't a H2, and somebody might be able to assist. [[User:Nagualdesign|nagualdesign]] ([[User talk:Nagualdesign|talk]]) 05:00, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

:Anyone can request a rename by inserting a [[:commons:Template:Rename|<nowiki>{{rename}}</nowiki>]] template but only a [[:commons:Commons:File_renaming|filemover]] can actually rename the file and only if it follows the rename guidelines. If the name is misrepresentative of what the image actually is, then that's a perfectly valid reason. Before requesting a rename however it would be good to not only be sure, but to offer some sort of evidence that it's actually misnamed. Once a rename template is placed, it takes anywhere from a couple hours to a couple days for a filemover to wander over and either perform the rename, or remove your request with a reason why. &ndash;&nbsp;[[User:Jbarta|JBarta]] ([[User talk:Jbarta#top|talk]]) 06:55, 29 January 2012 (UTC)

* This is the original poster at a different (also shared) IP address. Thanks for the work, folks. On the monitor I'm now using the colors are a bit less saturated and it does look as though the one I first provided as a comparison sample was undersaturated (although the original version was clearly too saturated, as I said). Just shows how hard this sort of thing can be. Anyway, the present version is good, or at least close enough.

* As to the title of the page, I will tag it for renaming as suggested.

* Most of the current Toronto subway trains have red seats, but none of the H-series ever did. If someone is remembering an early train with red seats it would be the [[G-series (Toronto subway train)]].

* [[Special:Contributions/65.94.114.170|65.94.114.170]] ([[User talk:65.94.114.170|talk]]) 01:17, 4 February 2012 (UTC)

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== Image modification ==

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