User talk:Altenmann/ar1 and User:Physis/Eskimo shamanism4: Difference between pages

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— [[User:Mikkalai/artalk|archive]] (2003/11/26 - 2006/01/12)
[[Image:Yupik shaman Nushagak.jpg|thumb|[[Central Alaskan Yup'ik|Yup'ik]] [[shaman]] exorcising evil spirits from a sick boy. [[Nushagak, Alaska|Nushagak]], [[Alaska]], 1890s.<ref name="fienupriordanphoto">Fienup-Riordan, Ann. (1994). ''Boundaries and Passages: Rule and Ritual in Yup'ik Eskimo Oral Tradition''. Norman, OK: University of Oklahoma Press, p. 206.) [[Nushagak, Alaska | Nushagak]], located on [[Nushagak Bay]] of the Bering Sea in southwest [[Alaska]], is part of the territory of the [[Central Alaskan Yup'ik|Yup'ik]], speakers of the [[Central Alaskan Yup'ik language]].</ref>]]
&mdash; [[User:Mikkalai/artalk2|archive 2]] (2006/01/13- 2006/03/07)
&mdash; [[User:Mikkalai/artalk3|archive 3]](2006/03/07 - 2006/04/27)
&mdash; [[User:Mikkalai/artalk4|archive 4]] (2006/04/28 - 2006/06/25)
&mdash; [[User:Mikkalai/arkven|Talks about Kven Issue]]
 
'''Eskimo shamanism''' refers to the those aspects of the culture of the [[Eskimo]] (Inuit and Yup'ik) peoples, which are related to a certain mediator role between people and spirits, souls, mythological beings. Such [[Shamanism|shamanistic]] beliefs and practices were once widespread among Eskimo groups, but today are rarely practiced.<ref name=Mer-BecHalfHid/>
 
== Relatedness to other cultures termed “shamanistic” ==
{| width="100%"
Can Eskimo cultures labelled as “shamanistic”? When speaking of “shamanism” in various Eskimo groups, it is important to note that the term “shamanism” has been used for various distinct cultures. Classically, [[Shamanism in Siberia|some indigenous cultures of Siberia]] were described as having “shamans”, but the term is now used for other cultures as well. In general, the belief systems termed “shamanistic” accept that certain people (the shamans) can in the role of a mediator with the spirit world,<ref name=Hop-SamEu/> contacting the various beings that populate the belief system (spirits, souls, mythological beings).
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The word “shaman” comes from a [[Tungusic languages|Tungusic language]] and means “he/she who knows”.<ref name=Hop-SamEu/> The shaman is really an expert in their own culture, thus the audience trusts them, and they can act with the safety of [[knowledge]] (using various means including musical, epical, choreographic, or manifested in objects).<ref name=Hop-SamEu>Hoppál 2005</ref> The shamans may use the knowledge for the benefit of the community, or for doing harm. They may have helping spirits, travel to other words.
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<big>'''TAKING a BREAK'''</big>
 
Most Eskimo groups knew such role of mediator:<ref name=Men-Pop/> the person filling it in was actually believed to be able to command helping spirits, ask mythological beings to “release” the souls of animals to enable the success of the hunt, heal sick people by bringing back their “stolen” souls. Term “shaman” is used in several English-language publications also in relation to Eskimos (academic<ref name=KleiSon-Esk/><ref name=Mer-BecHalfHid/> and popular),<ref name=Vit-Sam>Vitebsky 2001</ref> mostly for [[angakkuq]]. The {{IPA|/aˈliɣnalʁi/}} of the [[Siberian Yupik]]s is also translated as “shaman” in the Russian and English literature<ref name=Rub-Mat>Rubcova 1954</ref><ref name=Men-Pop/>
There will be no answer to any messages until this label is here. [[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 20:36, 26 March 2006 (UTC)
-->
 
Eskimo shamanism also exhibits some unique features, or features not shared with all shamanistic religions. The [[soul]] concepts of several groups are specific examples of [[soul dualism]], and the belief system assumes specific links between the living, the souls of hunted animals, and those of dead people. Unlike in many Siberian cultures, the careers of most Eskimo shamans lack the motivaton of ''force'': becoming a shaman is usually a result of human decision, not a necessity forced by the spirits.<ref name=KleiSon-Esk/>
== Passée Double ==
 
=== Career of the Eskimo shaman ===
Thanks for your note. Yes, I saw that a very few uses were of a different sort of march (and indeed there is a film called May, among other things). But they don't have to be linked, and being unlinked is better than being linked to the wrong place. Still I am pleased to have achieved edits like [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Reine_Wisell&diff=prev&oldid=60863503 this one]. ''[[User:Rich Farmbrough|Rich]] [[User talk:Rich Farmbrough|Farmbrough]]'' 18:16 [[27 June]] [[2006]] (GMT).
 
==== Re. Japanese datesMotivation ====
 
In the case of many Siberian peoples, the shaman may be forced by the spirits to accept their profession.<ref name=Dio-Sam>Diószegi 1962</ref> This forced motivation is generally lacking in Eskimo culture; even if the apprentice gets a “calling”, they can refuse it.<ref name=KleiSon-Esk/>
Thank you for providing me with this valuable new information, dear Mikka - in fact, I was merely acting because this particular anonymous user had just been reported at [[WP:AIV]] as a recurrent vandal, and who had been blocked just yesterday because of the same editing pattern. Aparently, the lack of any explanation by this editor induced everyone to believe he was merely performing a massive removal of information, and that his activity was nothing but a vandalism spree. I recommend you to make this information available to all the involved parties and the blocking admins, and I leave up to you to instrument the unblocking of the relevant IP addresses. Warm regards, [[User:Phaedriel|<b><font color="#00BB00">Phædriel</font></b>]] <b><font color="#FF0000">♥</font></b> [[User talk:Phaedriel|'''<small><font color="#22AA00">tell me</font></small>''']] - 15:55, 28 June 2006 (UTC)
 
==== Initiation ====
==TfD==
I think a potentially very disruptive template is on verge of being kept. If you have time, please take a look at this TfD discussion. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2006_June_30#Template:POV-because] Regards. [[User:172|172]] | [[User talk:172|Talk]] 21:50, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 
The career of the apprentice Eskimo shaman usually includes a difficult learning and [[initiation]] process, sometimes including a [[vision quest]]. Like the shamans of some other cultures, the Eskimo shaman may be believed to have a special career: they may have been an animal at a period of their life, and thus be able to use the valuable experiences learned for the benefit of the community.<ref name=Bar-Esk>„Die Seele, die alle Tiere durchwanderte”. A tale, in the following book: Barüske, Heinz: Eskimo Märchen. Eugen Diederichs Verlag (series: „Die Märchen der Weltliteratur”), Düsseldorf • Köln 1969. On pp 19–23, tale 7.</ref><ref name=Vit-Sam>Vitebsky 1996, pg. 106</ref><ref>“[http://www.archive.org/download/eskimofolktales00rasmrich/eskimofolktales00rasmrich.pd The soul that lived in the bodies of all beasts]” ([[PDF]]). In: Eskimo Folk-Tales. Collected by Knud Rasmussen, edited and rendered into English by W. Worster, with illustrations by native Eskimo artists. Gyldendal, London • Copenhagen, 1921, pg. 100</ref>
FYI [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#AlexPU] [[User:172|172]] | [[User talk:172|Talk]] 23:27, 1 July 2006 (UTC)
 
=== [[OlonetsSpecial Raion]]language ===
 
In several groups, there was a special distinct language inside the community which consisted of an [[Archaism|archaic]] version of the normal language, interlaced with special [[metaphor]]s and speech styles. In some groups, such variants were used when speaking with spirits invoked by the shaman and with unsocialised babies who grew into the human society through a special ritual performed by its mother. Some writers have treated it as a language for communication with “alien” beings.<ref name=KleiSon-Esk/> Expert shamans could speak whole sentences differing from vernacular speech.<ref name=Mer-BecHalfHid/>.
I think due to several edits the situation under Imperial Russia and the current situation has become entangled in such a way the article is now incorrect. Could you please take a look at it? I also asked [[User:Ezhiki|Ezhiki]] to look at it. [[User:Errabee|Errabee]] 06:38, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 
The role of the shaman's language, contacting “alien” beings,<ref name=KleiSon-Esk/> can be seen from the fact that a similar language is used for an analogous goal. A mother may talk to her baby in a non-vernacular language during a socialization ritual — the newborn is regarded as a little “alien” (just like spirits or animal souls).<ref name=KleiSon-Esk/>
== Summary by Alex Bakharev at [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Irpen]] ==
 
=== Position ===
Your have endorsed the summary by Alex Bakharev at [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Irpen]] which misinforms the community. Alex Bakharev wrote about [[Russian architecture]]: "There is no discussion on the talk page, no suggestions on improving the article". In fact there was (and still is) a discussion on the talk page and solution has been proposed. (Please see [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/Irpen#Comment_to_the_summary_by_Alex_Bakharev_and_others]]). I suggest you to withdraw your signature under the summary.--[[User:AndriyK|AndriyK]] 08:56, 3 July 2006 (UTC)
 
Border between shaman and laic was not entirely sharp. Also laic people could experience visions<ref name=Mer-BecHalfHid/>. Expreinces like hering voices from ice, stones were spoken about just like normal hunting experiences.<ref name=Ras-ThulF/> Having and commanding helping spirits were characteristic to shamans, but alsoalso laic could profit fom powers by use of [[amulets]]. Let us mention as extreme a [[#Netsilingmiut|Netsilingmiut example]], where a child had 80 amulets for pritecton.
== Russian architecture ==
 
=== Soul dualism ===
It looks like your edits at [[Russian architecture]] moved the article towards a compromise. But there is a disagreement about a single sentence [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Russian_architecture&diff=62165245&oldid=62165163]. Why this sentece is so important? Do you think any further compromise is possible?--[[User:Mbuk|Mbuk]] 22:45, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
{{Main|Soul dualism}}
The Eskimo shaman may fulfill multiple functions, including healing, curing [[Infertility|infertile]] women, and securing the success of hunts (in the case of a scarcity of game or a long meteorological calamity hindering hunting, such as a blizzard).
 
This plethora of (seemingly unassociated) functions can be grasped better by understanding the soul concept which underlies them. Variations occur among Eskimos, but in general they are a special variant of [[soul dualism]].
== Dacha ==
 
;Healing
I don't get what you are talking about in the [[Dacha]] article talk page. --[[User:GoOdCoNtEnT|GoOdCoNtEnT]] 18:35, 6 July 2006 (UTC)
:It is held that the cause of sickness is ''soul theft'': somebody (an enemy shaman, a spirit, etc.) has stolen the soul of the sick person. The reason the person would remain alive is explained by the belief that people had multiple souls. Stealing the appropriate soul of the victim does not cause immediate death, only illness or prolonged death. It takes a shaman to bring back the stolen soul. The soul-thief can be an enemy shaman.<ref name=Ras-ThulF/> According to another variant observed among [[Ammassalik]] Eskimos in East Greenland, even the joints of the body have their own small souls. If such a small soul escapes, that is the explanation of pain.<ref name="Gabus">Gabus 1970</ref>
;Fertity
:The shaman avails the soul of the future child to be born by the woman.<ref name=Mer-BecHalfHidfour>Merkur 1985, p. 4</ref>
;Success of hunts
:The shaman visits a mythological being who protects all sea animals (usually, the [[Sedna (mythology)|Sea Woman]]). The Sea Woman keeps the souls of sea animals (in her house, or in a pot). If the shaman pleases her, she releases the animal souls, ending the scarcity of game.<ref name=KleiSon-Esk/>
 
It is the shaman's ''free soul'' that can take part in a spirit journey to far and dangerous places (land of dead, Sea Woman, Moon etc) while his body is still alive.<ref name=Mer-BecHalfHidfour/> At the initiation of the apprentice shaman, the initiator extracts the shaman's free soul and makes it familiar to the helping spirits so that they shall listen when the new shaman invokes them.<ref name=Ras-ThulF/><ref name=Mer-BecHalfHidonetwoone>Merkur 1985, p. 121</ref>
== Myself and [[User:Grafikm fr]] ==
 
Animals may have shared souls (shared across their species).<ref name=Mer-BecHalfHid/> The baby's developing own soul was usually “supported” by a ''name-soul'': the baby was given the name of a dead relative, whose name-soul has accompanied and helped the child till adolescence. This concept of inheriting name-souls could amount to a kind of [[reincarnation]] among some groups (Caribou Eskimos).<ref name=KleiSon-Esk/>
Salut Circeus,
 
=== Publicity versus secrecy ===
Ben ecoute, je sais bien que Ghirla est caractériel comme tout. Moi j'ai essayé de le raisonner il y a quelque temps au sujet d'une autre remarque de ce genre, j'ai essayé de le calmer sur sa page de discussion, mais j'ai jamais eu de réponse. C'est clair que c'est un gros dilemme... -- [[User:Grafikm_fr|<font color="Blue">'''Grafikm'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Grafikm_fr|'''<font color="red">(AutoGRAF)</font>''']]</sup> 21:01, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 
It was believed in several contexts, that [[secrecy]] ([[privacy]]) may be needed to the effectivenes of an act or an object (either beneficial or harmful, intended or incidental), and [[publicity]] may cause its neutralisation.
''Hi Circeus''
* Magic formulae usually required secrecy, they could lose their power if they became known by other people than their owners.
* Also the deliberate harmful magical act (ilisiinneq) had to be done in secrecy.
* If the victim of another detrimental magical act (tupilak-making) had enough magical power (e.g. by amulets} to notice the enemic act and “rebound” it back to the person who executed it, then the thus endangered person could escape only by public confession of his planned (and failed) sorcery.
* a [[rite of passage]] celebrating the first major hunting succes of a boy often contained a “partaking” element: the whole community incised the already killed game or took part in its consumption. Because the function of this rite of passage was to establish a positive relationship between the young man and game, and the killed animal could bring dangers to the hunter. The partaking ritual of the community lessened this danger by sharing the responsibility.
 
Some of the shaman's functions can be understood in the light of this notion of secrecy/publicity. The cause of illness was usually believed to be (besides soul theft) a breach of some [[taboo]] (e.g. the conceiving of an abortion). The public confession (lead by the shaman during a public seance) could bring relief the patient. Similar remarks apply for taboo breaches endangering the whole community (wrath of mythical beings causing calamities).<ref name=KleiSon-Esk/>
''Well, I know Ghirla is terribly emotional. I tried to reason with him some time ago over something similar at his talk page, but I never got any answer. It's a real dilemma''
 
== Certain unity of Eskimo cultures ==
:C'est l'impression que les quelques interactions que j'ai eues avec lui (aussi à [[Template:Languageicon]], que j'avais oublié) m'ont laissé. En tout les cas, je persiste et signe concernant le block. Il a été averti par l'ArbCom en Janvier, et de manière répétée par plusieurs utilisateurs depuis. C'est tout juste s'ilne s'est pas bloqué lui-même. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] 21:07, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 
[[Eskimo]] groups comprise a huge area stretching from [[Eastern Siberia]] through [[Alaska]] and [[Northern Canada]] (including [[Labrador Peninsula]]) to [[Greenland]]. Important examples of [[Shamanism|shamanistic]] practice and beliefs have been recorded at several parts of this vast area crosscutting continental borders.<ref name=KleiSon-Esk>Kleivan 1985</ref><ref name=Mer-BecHalfHid>Merkur 1985</ref><ref name="Gabus" />
:''That's the impression my other interactions (notably at [[Template:Languageicon]], which I hadforgotten about) with him left me with. In any case, I stand by my block. He got warned by the arbcom in January and repeatedly by various users since. He practically blocked himself''
 
Do the belief systems of various Eskimo groups have such common features that justifies speaking about “Eskimo” belief systems? There is a certain unity in the culture of the Eskimo groups.<ref name=Ras-ThulF>Rasmussen 1926</ref><ref name=Mau-Mor>Mauss 1979</ref> Although a large distance separated the Asiatic Eskimos and Greenland Eskimos, their shamanistic seances showed many similarities.<ref name=Men-Pop>Menovščikov 1996 [1968]</ref> Similar remarks apply for comparisons of Asiatic with North American Eskimo shamanisms.<ref name=Vit-Sam/> Also the usage of a specific shaman's language is documented among several Eskimo groups,<ref name=Mer-BecHalfHid/><ref name=KleiSon-Esk/> including Asian ones.<ref>Rubcova 1954, pg. 128</ref>
:: Je suis tout à fait d'accord avec toi. Mais bon, comme on dit "on ne se refait pas". Je vais essayer de lui parler, mais comme il répond meme pas à ses messages, ça va etre un peu difficile... -- [[User:Grafikm_fr|<font color="Blue">'''Grafikm'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Grafikm_fr|'''<font color="red">(AutoGRAF)</font>''']]</sup> 21:08, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 
Similar remarks apply for aspects of the belief system not directly linked to shamanism:
::''I agree totally with you. But as they say, one never changes on his own will. I'll try talking to him, but since he doesn't even answer my messages, that's going to be difficult.''
* [[tattoo]]ing<ref name=Kut-Tat>[http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/arctic_tattoos.htm Tattoos of the early hunter-gatherers of the Arctic] written by [http://www.vanishingtattoo.com/lars_krutak.htm Lars Krutak]</ref>
* accepting the killed game as a dear guest visiting the hunter<ref>Rubcova 1954, pg. 218</ref>
* usage of [[amulet]]s<ref>Rubcova 1954, pg. 380</ref>
* lack of [[totem]] animals<ref name=radio>{{ru icon}} [http://www.echo.msk.ru/guests/6456/ A radio interview with Russian scientists about Asian Eskimos]</ref><ref name=Rad-Tot>Radcliffe-Brown, A.R. (1952) The Sociological Theory of Totemism. In Structure and Function in Primitive Society. Glencoe: The Free Press.</ref>
 
=== Inuit ===
:::J'avoue que je me demande s'il a même remarqué que le block a(ou devrait être, à tout le moins) expiré. Je suis tenté de lui proposer d'annoncer aux 90 utilisateurs qui ont fait de moi-même et BrianGotts des admnistrateurs qu'ils ont remis des pouvoirs de sysop entre les mains de trolls, mais ça serait un peu exagéré, je crois. De toute façon, ce n'est pas comme s'il tenait à écouter qui que ce soit. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] 21:14, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 
==== Netsilingmiut ====
:::''I almost wonder if he has notice dhis bloc has (or should have, at least) expired. I'tempted to offer him to go and tell the 90 users that made me and briangotts admins that they put the Sysoppowers in the hands of trolls, but that would be toomuch, I think. Besides,it's not like he wants to listen to anybody.''
 
Also dogs can get amulets.<ref>Rasmussen 1965, p. 268</ref> A young boy was given that many amulets that he could hardly play. He had 80 amulets!<ref>Kleivan&Sonne 1985, p. 43</ref> Also, a man had 17 names, these were names of his ancestor, and he believed that they protect him. Rasmussen attributes these large numbers to the fact that the Netsilingmiut live among very hard conditons, the winter is extremely long, the spring is stormy, starvation is not unknown at all.<ref name=thatmany/>
:::: Le truc en fait, c'est qu'en ce moment, il y a un conflit giganstesque sur la partie russe de Wikipedia, dont Ghirla s'occupe beaucoup. Il y a des guerres dans tous les sens, c'est un peu le Bronx... Donc en fait, les gens qui sont déjà pas très patients par nature, comme Ghirla, démarrent au quart de tour et en général, ça explose... :( -- [[User:Grafikm_fr|<font color="Blue">'''Grafikm'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Grafikm_fr|'''<font color="red">(AutoGRAF)</font>''']]</sup> 21:18, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 
Moon man is frendly<ref name=moonfriend>p. Kleivan&Sonne 1985, p. 30</ref><ref>Rasmussen 1965, p. </ref> (unlike in Greenland<ref name=moonfriend/>). Sila was male. Netsiliks (and Copper Eskimos) had a tale that Sila's origin can be attributed to a baby of a giant, whose parents were killed in a combat between giants, helped by people.<ref>Kleivan&Sonne 1985, p. 31</ref> The Sea Woman's name was Nuliayuk “the lubricous one”<ref>Kleivan&Sonne 1985, p. 27,</ref> she had been originally an orphan girl mishandled by her community (thus, not by her father)<ref>Rasmussen 1965, 278</ref>.
::::''What's going on is that there's a gigantic edit warring in the russian content of Wiki, in which he is very much involved (the russian content, not the conflict! - '''Graf'''). There are conflicts everywhere and it's a big mess. So people who are already cranky by nature, such as ghirla, areset off and it all explodes.''
 
Tattooing provided magical power, and it could affect which world a woman gets to after her death.<ref>Rasmussen 1965, p. 279</ref><ref name>Rasmussen, 1965, p. 256+</ref>
:::::Je savais que Ghirla était (avait été?) impliqué dans plusieurs disputes concernant l'Ukraine, la Pologne, le [[Kievan Rus]], des translitération et trucs du genre, mais je connaissait pas les détails. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] 21:22, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 
==== Caribou Eskimos ====
:::::''I knew Ghirla was (had been?) involved with several dispute involving Ukraine, Poland, the Kievan Rus, transliteration and similar stuff, but I wasn't aware of all the details.''
 
The term “Caribou Eskimos” is a collective noun for inland Eskimos living in an area bordered by the [[tree line]] and the west shore of [[Hudson bay]]. They include several groups, namely Krenermiut, Aonarktormiut, Harvaktormiut, Padlermiut, Ahearmiut. Caribou Eskimos do not form a political unit, contacts between the groups are loose, but they have inland lifestyle and some cultural unity. In the near past, Padlermiuts established contacts with the sea, they take part in seal hunt.<ref>Gabus 1970, p. 145</ref>
:::::: Ce qui se passe actuellement, c'est qu'il y a un conflit gigantesque un peu partout entre, en gros, le point de vue consideré comme "pro-russe" ou "pro-sovietique" d'un coté, et des editeurs ukrainiens et/ou polonais un peu radicaux. Personne n'est parfait dans cette histoire, mais ça degenere tres tres vite... -- [[User:Grafikm_fr|<font color="Blue">'''Grafikm'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Grafikm_fr|'''<font color="red">(AutoGRAF)</font>''']]</sup> 21:30, 7 July 2006 (UTC)
 
Also their soul concept included [[soul dualism]]. The soul associated with respiration was called ''umaffia'' (place of life).<ref>Kleivan&Sonne 1985, p. 18</ref> Another source mentions the personal soul of the child, ''tarneq'', it corresponds to the ''nappan'' of Copper Eskimos. The personal soul of the child was believed so weak that it needed the guardianship of a name-soul of a dead relative. Such presence of the ancestor in the body of the child lead to a gentle behavior especially toward boys<ref>Gabus 1965, p. 111</ref>. The belief amounted to a special form of [[reincarnation]] of the dead in the child.<ref>Kleivan&Sonne, p. 18</ref><ref>Gabus 1965, p. 212</ref>
::::::''What's going on is this widespread conflict between, roughly, a point of view described by some as pro-russian or pro-soviet, and somewhat radical ukrainian and/or polish editors. Nobody's perfect in that story and it degenerates very, very quickly...''
 
Because of their inland lifestyle, they have no belief about a Sea Woman. Other cosmic beings filled in her role (regarding caribous instead of marine animals): Sila, Pinga. Some groups made a distinction between the two, others mixed them up.<ref>Kleivan&Sonne 1985, p. 31</ref> Sacrificial gifts could promote luck in hunting.<ref>Kleivan&Sonne 1985, p. 36</ref>
[[User:Circeus|Circeus]] 00:33, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
:I've tried to be as accurate as possible, although some expressions and phrasings are harder to translate properly. "somewhat radical" is much tamerthan it sounds once translated. "kinda radical" might be closer. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] 00:40, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
:: I changed a few sentences in my own phrases as to stick a bit closer to what I had in mind
:: And don't translate ''gigantesque'' by ''big-ass'', it is way too rude. ''Gigantic'' is better :) -- [[User:Grafikm_fr|<font color="Blue">'''Grafikm'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:Grafikm_fr|'''<font color="red">(AutoGRAF)</font>''']]</sup> 00:44, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
:::Sorry. It's justthe first word that came to me. [[User:Circeus|Circeus]] 00:52, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
 
The shaman could fill in also a [[fortune-telling]] function by a special style of ''qilaneq''. It was a technique of asking a so-called ''qila''-spirit. The shaman raised his shaman staff and shaman belt over his glove lying on the ground. The ''qila'' was believed to enter the glove and draw the staff to itself. In genarally, qilaneq, practiced at several other Eskimo groups, consisted of fortune-telling techniques to achieve yes/no answer.
== [[Talk:BMI]] ==
 
=== Yupik ===
I notice you deleted this earlier - thanks - the trolls are back to the tak page now!
 
Also Yupik knew [[tattooing]]<ref name=Kut-Tat/>.
Thanks/L/[[User:Wangi|wangi]] 01:12, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
 
=== JohnSireniki ===
 
I noticed you reverted back or it has been anways. I just want you to know that if you are not going to other John's that I put on that page then then all of the those John's should be in the disambiguation page then. It's pointless to leave out a number John's that should be listed.
 
Oh and I am moving your comments to my archive. [[User:Fishhead2100|Mr. C.C.]] 07:31, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
 
==Vokzal onSee deletionalso review==
An editor has asked for a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review#Vokzal|deletion review]] of [[Vokzal]]. Since you closed the deletion discussion for (or speedy-deleted) this article, your reasons on how or why you did so will be greatly appreciated in the above review. --[[User:W.marsh|W.marsh]] 13:13, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
 
* [[Angakkuq]]
==The Kven editor==
For your information: [[Wikipedia:Requests for checkuser/Case/Stopping your vandalism]]. [[User:Tupsharru|Tupsharru]] 14:19, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
 
==Vandalism Notes ==
{{reflist}}
A suspected [[User talk:Pusyamitra Sunga|sockpuppet]] of the blocked user [[User:Subhash_bose]] has begun a revert war in [[Babri_Mosque]] removing the <fact> tags of this controversial article. Please take action. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Babri_Mosque&diff=62737163&oldid=62736733], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Babri_Mosque&diff=next&oldid=62737753], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Babri_Mosque&diff=next&oldid=62738137] [[User:Anwar saadat|Anwar]] 16:21, 8 July 2006 (UTC)
 
==References==
:What a humorous person this Anwar Saadat is. Please see [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template_talk:Fact#User:Anwar_saadat.27s_creative_combination_of_vandalism_and_the_fact_template]. --[[User:Msiev|Msiev]] 09:41, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
::[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Babri_Mosque&diff=prev&oldid=63064131 I found at least in one instance that a bot knows bettter!]. --[[User:Bhadani|Bhadani]] 16:38, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 
*{{cite book |last=Diószegi |first=Vilmos |title=Samanizmus |year=1962 |Gondolat |___location=Budapest |series=Élet és Tudomány Kiskönyvtár}}
== Прапанова аб Вікі ў правапісе 1959==
Чалом! Азнаёмцеся з прапановай: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Requests_for_new_languages. Дзяк.
 
*{{cite book |last=Gabus |first=Jean |title=A karibu eszkimók |year=1970 |publisher=Gondolat Kiadó |___location=Budapest}} Translation of the original: {{cite book |title=Vie et coutumes des Esquimaux Caribous |year=1944 |publisher=Libraire Payot Lausanne}}
== Irfan ==
 
*{{cite book |last=Hoppál |first=Mihály |title=Sámánok Eurázsiában |year=2005 |publisher=Akadémiai Kiadó |___location=Budapest |language=Hungarian |isbn=963-05-8295-3}} (The title means “Shamans in Eurasia”, the book is written in [[Hungarian language|Hungarian]], but it is also published in German, Estonian and Finnish). [http://www.akkrt.hu/main.php?folderID=906&pn=2&cnt=31&catID=&prodID=17202&pdetails=1 Site of publisher with short description on the book (in Hungarian)]
As long as it's sourced, there's nothing wrong with criticism as such. Arun Shourie wrote for example this:
 
*{{cite book |last=Kleivan |fist=I. |coauthor=B. Sonne |title=Eskimos: Greenland and Canada |year=1985 |publisher=Institute of Religious Iconography • State University Groningen. E.J. Brill |___location=Leiden, The Netherlands |series: Iconography of religions, section VIII, "Artic Peoples", fascicle 2. |isbn=90-04-07160-1}}
What about the "Medieval Sources Project"?, I asked. After some search, the ICHR has supplied the following list of the scholars to whom the work was assigned, the subject he was to cover, the money sanctioned to each, and the result:
1. Satish Chandra & Co.: Hindi translation of "Early Sources of Akbar's Reign"; Not completed, money not indicated.
2. '''Irfan Habib''': Akbarat-e-Aurangzeb: Rs. 27,000/-; Not completed.
3. Moonis Raza: "Atlas of the Mughal Empire": Rs. 22,400/-; Not completed.
4. Anis Faruqi: Tashir-ul-Aqwani: Rs. 9,000/-; Not completed.
5. Satish Chandra: Documents on Social and Economic History: Rs. 23,000/-; Not completed.
6. P. Saran: Tarikh-i-Akbari: Rs. 18,500/-; Submitted but not traceable -- but on that last entry, more in a moment.
 
*{{cite book |last=Mauss |first=Marcel |others=in collab. with Henri Beuchat; translated, with a foreward, by James J. Fox |title=Seasonal variations of the Eskimo: a study in social morphology |origyear=c1950 |year=1979 |publisher=Routledge & Kegan Paul |___location=London}}
What about the much-touted "Translation Project", I inquired. It began in April, 1972, the ICHR says, when the National Book Trust proposal for translating the volumes in the Bhartiya Vidya Bhavan Series on the history and culture of India was received in the ICHR. A committee consisting of the usual eminencies -- S. Gopal, Tapan Raychaudhuri, Satish Chandra, Romila Thapar -- was constituted. This Committee resolved that the Bhartiya Vidya Bhavan volumes -- which in fact are the very best and most outstanding of works produced in the last fifty years -- "are not suitable for translation into Indian languages," and that this proposal should not be pursued any further. The Committee suggested that alternative titles be selected for translation.
 
*{{cite book |last=Menovščikov, G. A. (Г. А. Меновщиков) |title=Popular Conceptions, Religious Beliefs and Rites of the Asiatic Eskimoes}} Translated into English and published in: {{cite book |last=Diószegi |first=Vilmos |coauthors=Mihály Hoppál |title=Folk Beliefs and Shamanistic Traditions in Siberia |origyear=1968 |year=1996 |publisher=Akadémiai Kiadó |___location=Budapest}}
And, lo and behold!, the largest number of titles which the eminent historians selected were of the eminencies themselves, and of those who advocated their line! R. S. Sharma, a Chairman of the ICHR : five titles; S. Gopal : three titles; Romila Thapar : three titles; Bipin Chandra : two titles; '''Irfan Habib''' : two titles; his father, Mohammed Habib : two titles; Satish Chandra : one title...
 
*{{cite book |last=Merkur |first=Daniel |title=Becoming Half Hidden: Shamanism and Initiation among the Inuit |year=1985 |publisher=Almqvist & Wiksell |___location=Stockholm |series: Acta Universitatis Stockholmiensis / Stockholm Studies in Comparative Religion}}
What amount has been spent on this Project, I inquired, how much royalty was paid to the authors, I inquired. The ICHR has incurred an expenditure of Rs 4,189,000, the Ministry said, and added, "Authors of the books selected for translation were not paid royalties."
 
*{{cite book |last=Rasmussen |first=Knud |title=Thulefahrt |year=1926 |publisher=Frankurter Societăts-Druckerei |___location=Frankfurt am Main}}
Having got to know their ways by now, I persisted. Had I used the wrong word ?, I inquired. Had they got payment under some head other than "royalties"? The ICHR has now said that in fact authors were paid, "a lump sum for translation rights" : Rs 1000 per language per volume if the book was more than 200 pages, and Rs 500 per language per volume if the book was less than 200 pages. Hence, R S Sharma got a total of Rs 47000 for his books; Bipin Chandra, Rs 14000; '''Irfan Habib''', Rs 11000; Romila Thapar, Rs 12000...
--[[User:Msiev|Msiev]] 09:49, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 
*{{cite book |last=Rubcova |first=E. S. |title=Materials on the Language and Folklore of the Eskimoes (Vol. I, Chaplino Dialect) |year=1954 |publisher=Academy of Sciences of the USSR |___location=Moscow • Leningrad}} Original data: {{cite book |last=Рубцова |first=Е. С. |title=Материалы по языку и фольклору эскимосов (чаплинский диалект) |year=1954 |publisher=Академия Наук СССР |___location=Москва • Ленинград}}
==Hello==
 
*{{cite book |last=Vitebsky |first=Piers |authorlink=Piers Vitebsky |title=The Shaman: Voyages of the Soul - Trance, Ecstasy and Healing from Siberia to the Amazon |year=2001 |publisher=Duncan Baird |isbn=1-903296-18-8}}
We are meeting after a long gap. I just wanted to share with you a translation: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Pusyamitra_Sunga&diff=63067107&oldid=63067011 Yes Sir]. Regards! --[[User:Bhadani|Bhadani]] 16:35, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
 
*{{cite book |last=Vitebsky |first=Piers |title=A sámán |year=1996 |publisher=Magyar Könyvklub • Helikon Kiadó |___location=Budapest}}. Translation of the original: {{cite book |title=The Shaman (Living Wisdom) |year=1995 |publisher=Duncan Baird}}
== Capitalization of L/lindy H/hop ==
 
Hey Mikkalai, a few of us over at the lindy hop pages noticed that you moved many of them to capitalize the dance names. Would you mind posting your reasons [[Talk:Lindy_Hop#Article name change| here]]? There was a discussion on the capitalization issue there, and at least semi-consensus from the regular editors seemed to be reached. I think it would suppress some frustration if you joined in. (Another discussion was about it was [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Dance#Capitalization| here]].) Thanks!--[[User:Will.i.am|Will.i.am]] 21:40, 10 July 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks for your comments on the [[Talk:Lindy Hop|Lindy Hop discussion]]. I am aware that admins don't have extra authority when editing articles, but that admin title still gets a little more respect from us little wikipeople. :-) You mentioned starting a discussion on the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Dance|Dance Wikiproject]]. I had actually done that, and one person even took the discussion to the [[Wikipedia:Reference_desk_archive/Language/June_2006#Are_dance_styles_proper_nouns.3F|Wikipedia language reference desk]]. None of these discussions seemed to come to a resolution, which is why I was rather confused when you started changing the article titles. I see that the discussion has resumed, so maybe we can make progress again. My personal preference is to not capitalize dance names, but I don't feel strongly either way. I'm more concerned that we have some consistency about capitalization since right now, some dances are capitalized while others are not, and there doesn't seem to be any logic behind it. --[[User:Cswrye|Cswrye]] 14:04, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 
[[Category:Shamanism]]
==Rory Demetrioff==
[[Category:Eskimos]]
[[Category:Cultural anthropology]]
 
[[hu:Eszkimó samanizmus]]
Hello, I would like to enquire why you have deleted Rory Demetrioff. Thank you for your assistance.
 
 
Hello, please reinstate this article. Thank You. Wil Everett. (not a firm a person / creator of this article regarding a notable Canadian speaker. 07/10/2006 Wil
 
The article was restored out of due process, i.e., without request at [[Wikipedia:Deletion review]]. See also [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Rory Demetrioff]]. There is no claims of notability in the article, neither you provided any information to this end elsewhere in wikipedia besides saying "yes he is very important". If you don't know what notability means, please look into [[Len Domino]] article for comparison. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 00:25, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 
 
Why would you deny people from Canada to have access to researching this individual. He appears on the government of Ontario and Government of Canada registry for active lobbyists. I think this needs to be opened up to a wider discussion. How can that take place. Also, it should be encouraged to review already public information on google and on the government of Ontario Integrity Commission website at: http://lobbyist.oico.on.ca/Integrity/RegistrationGeneral.nsf/PublicFramesWeb?OpenPage
 
Also, a number of collegues also have entries in Wikipedia including:
[[Leslie Noble]],
[[Deb Hutton]],
[[Gerald Caplan]],
[[Ian Brodie]],
[[Rod Love]]
 
Why is this individual singled out? Perhaps he is not in the right category on wikipedia?
 
Thank you for your help and insight.
:<unsigned >
 
Thank you for your interest in wikipedia. Here is my help and insight once again: please address the specific concerns expressed in the vote for deletion: please provide the proof of notability of the person. Once again, please look into [[Len Domino]] for an example, as well as into other wikipedia aricles you mentioned. Please also sign your posts. It is very easy to do, by typing four tildas: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. They will automatically convert into a signature similar to mine: `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 00:47, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 
Thank you for your help. The other individuals have been reviewed, including Demetrioff's collegue Domino. I do not mean to be presistant on this, but I think this is important to ensure this information is made available to the public. It seems as though one individual did not like the article and no one is giving a chance for a fair review, or an attempt to add additional information. After the first deletion a wealth on new background was provided, but then deleted. More details can be added if that is required. The other individuals being googled often appear less than Demetrioff. Please help with the exact criteria for deletion in this case so that the matter can be resolved.
 
<unsigned>
 
The policy [[wikipedia:Verifiability]] basically requires that information in wikipedia must be based on reputable, preferrably neutral, sources from third parties. Please also see the guideline [[Wikipedia:Notability (people)]]. Please sign your posts in talk pages for easy tracking of discussions. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 07:22, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 
== [[User:Subhash bose]] ==
Hello Mikkalai. I have since tried to ublock the IP of this user but it will not work. It seems he can't edit anywhere. Also, it seems that [[User:Pusyamitra Sunga]] is his sockpuppet, used to evade block and 3rr. The sock and Subhash both emailed me from the same address. So I blocked the sock. What is in order for the master now? Regards, '''[[User:Blnguyen|Blnguyen]]''' <nowiki>|</nowiki> [[User talk:Blnguyen|rant-line]] 05:16, 11 July 2006 (UTC).
===Puppetteer removes cat tag from IP===
Also please take a look at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/128.83.131.121 this]. The IP admits he is the puppetteer [[User:Subhash bose]]. He insists on removing the suspected sp category links. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Subhash_bose&action=history]. Check out his language too. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Shiv_Sena&diff=next&oldid=63177667] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Shiv_Sena&diff=next&oldid=63177901] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Shiv_Sena&diff=next&oldid=63178003]. The IPs have a common subnet. He may have enabled DHCP on his system. Hence the slight variations in the string. Incidentally another user has removed the cat tag [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3ASubhash_bose&diff=63231742&oldid=63230817] from his user page without explanation. Check out this [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Subhash_bose&diff=next&oldid=63192786 threat] too. He is also quite busy campaigning for support for his ''agenda'' [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3A203.197.216.5 here]. What action ought to be taken? [[User:Anwar saadat|Anwar]] 14:05, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 
== Kurt Leyman ==
 
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Winter_War&curid=227507&diff=63227771&oldid=63227620 This guy] deletes references to Soviet victory from [[Winter War]]. Please investigate. --<font color="FC4339">[[User:Ghirlandajo|Ghirla]]</font> <sup><font color="C98726">[[User_talk:Ghirlandajo|-трёп-]]</font></sup> 15:05, 11 July 2006 (UTC)
 
== Verilog ==
Why did you revert my addition of Blue Pearl Software amongst a list of Verilog RTL applications? There are many other commercial applications listed, it is on-topic. What was wrong?
 
:Thank you for your interest in wikipedia. I hope The problem is notability of the company. A fresh startup, barely on radar of the industry and google, hardly warrants an encyclopedia article. I've seen hundreds of them in EDA during last 15 years to pop up and flunk. I have a nice collection of T-shirts from [[DAC]]. If you have solid references from reputable third-party publications that praise this company, you are very welcome to write an article about Blue Pearl ASAP and link it wherever you want. (BTW don't forget ot kick ass of your sales&marketing or whoever who invented this name, "Bloo Per Software"). Otherwise, I am afraid it will be delisted from wikipedia. Meanwhile I will take a look at other "commercial applications listed". [[WP:NOT|Wikipedia is not a web directory]]. What is more, adding links to one and the same website into multiple articles is considered spam in wikipedia and frowned upon. Please contribute actual article text. EDA industry is underrepresented in wikipedia. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 01:42, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
::So basically, you are making a value judgement on the basis that you have not heard of Blue Pearl Software and you think the name sucks? What about all the other small EDA companies? Many of these have links in various articles on Wikipedia. I strongly suspect that you work in the EDA industry, so it looks like partisan bias on your part.
:::I am giving you a friendly advice about the name that may be easily mocked. You are free to disregard a hint that bad name can easily kill a company. But please '''do not''' ignore comments about solid references and spam. These are rules of wikipeida, not mine. And what you have to do is to prove that your company is notable by providing reputable references, rather than to prove that I am a partisan.
 
:::Summarizing, you have to learn to listen carefully to arguments of your opponents and address them rather than to invent a [[straw man]] (and use other [[logical fallacies]]) if you want success in business. (You also ignored my remark that I '''will''' look at other "commercial applications listed" (and surely make "a vaue judgement")). `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 16:14, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
:::: I suggest that if you want people to read your comments and listen to you, you don't indulge in gratuitous insults that are not pertinent to the topic (under the ridiculous guise of "friendly advice"). I believe that deleting all references to companies is a fair moderation, but it does not reflect well on you that I had to point out your inconsistent moderation before you took this action. Also, I don't think your research is up to scratch -- you refer to Blue Pearl as a "fresh startup". We have had booths at DAC last year and the year before. So I don't think we qualify as "fresh" (unlike at least one of the companies that you left in place in your original moderation, which was formed in 2005, and has not exhibited at a single DAC).
 
: Looking at the [[Verilog]] article again, I see that some of the external links have been replaced, including one to "Logicsim". I have added some comments to the "talk" for Verilog, since I don't think that the link to "logicsim" is valid (or that the claims made about it are valid) according to the comments that you have made.
 
== Joke ==
 
Maybe some Talk before reverting again? You are the only admin who has supported the list, of whihc I'm aware. I posted to WikiEN-l as well, not many responses (some to me not the list), all in favour of removing the jokes. [[User Talk:JzG|Just zis <span style="border: 1px; border-style:solid; padding:0px 2px 2px 2px; color:white; background-color:darkblue; font-weight:bold">Guy</span> you know?]] 22:12, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
 
== RfC on Lazar Kaganovich ==
 
You edited the [[Lazar Kaganovich]] article. Would you consider participation in the RfC [[Talk:Lazar_Kaganovich#Poll_on_wording_on_Responsibility_for_Holodomor|Lazar_Kaganovich]] [[User:Alex Bakharev|abakharev]] 01:16, 13 July 2006 (UTC)
 
==[[Water stagnation]]==
I do like your attitude toward the Wikipedia. I did the disambiguation page on [[Rath]], for many of the same reasons that you have expressed. Were you planning an article on [[Water stagnation]]? Is that why you placed the link on the [[Anoxic sea water]] article? If so, you might also link from the [[Manfredonia]] article about the stagnation of the water in the lagoons after the 1223 earthquake, and the [[Theodore Roosevelt Island]] article where in 1831 a causeway stagnated the water. Maybe you might also include a see also reference from [[Backwater]], [[Billabong]] and [[Swamp]]. [[User:Bejnar|Bejnar]] 00:00, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 
== [[Viaduct]] + [[Template:unreferenced]] ==
 
You recently added [[Template:unreferenced]] to the [[Viaduct]] article, without leaving any mention of it on the talk page. I will leave it where it is for now but would like clarification as to what in particular you feel needs citations. Most articles of a similar length lack citations, which I feel is entirely appropriate given the generic and rather common knowledge nature of the subject matter. --[[User:IntrigueBlue|IntrigueBlue]] 01:04, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 
:[[User talk:IntrigueBlue|Re: Your reply on my talk page]]
:I don't take the addition of the template as an attack, I'm merely seeking clarification as to what in particular you feel needs citation so that I can fix it. --[[User:IntrigueBlue|IntrigueBlue]] 01:20, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 
::[[User talk:IntrigueBlue|Re: Your reply on my talk page]]
::Okay, thank you for the clarification. --[[User:IntrigueBlue|IntrigueBlue]] 01:58, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 
 
==Zhukov?==
 
I saw that you re added that clearly wrong and incorrect line on zhukov. Everyone knows that Stalin was in full command of the Soviet Union and that he was the one who ordered all the counter attacks it wasent an idea of zhukovs it was stalins idea. ([[User:BobShoe|BobShoe]] 12:55, 14 July 2006 (UTC))
:: I know that Stalin ordered the attacks it can be proven it is extremly obvoius Stalin had killed of a part of the military and he did rule the soviet union supreme, andno it is not someone blameing him. Only when stalin stoped trying to control the war and started listening to the military did things get better for the red army and look on the talk page and you will see this
 
::-Richard Overy "The Dictators" from 2005- http://img208.imageshack.us/my.php?image=bild2421nm.jpg
 
::Everyone know that Stalin was in charge it is so obvoius. ([[User:BobShoe|BobShoe]] 20:39, 14 July 2006 (UTC))
:::Obviously this situation is not so obvious as it seems to you. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 21:22, 14 July 2006 (UTC)
 
== Hiwi (volunteer) ==
 
It's something wrong with this article, it doesn't explain, rather misinforms. No Discussion.
[[User:Xx236|Xx236]] 13:30, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 
No offence intended, but I reverted your deletions from the article. Both of the paragraphs are sourced from Antony Beevor's book "Stalingrad", Chapter 11 (near the end of the chapter). I doubt Beevor would have indulged in "erratic speculation". [[User:Folks at 137|Folks at 137]] 19:47, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
 
:Added response to your comments on the Hiwi talk page. Please consider them. Out of town for a week or so; slow response not meant as rudeness. [[User:Folks at 137|Folks at 137]] 22:49, 22 July 2006 (UTC)
 
== [[Lev Shubnikov]] ==
 
No, the <nowiki>{{citeneeded}}</nowiki> is not a joke.
 
The [[Joseph Stalin]] mentions that [[Lev Shubnikov]], the physicist, was shot. I'd like to see a cite for that, to get more info for the [[Lev Shubnikov]] article. Google has several hundred hits indicating that he was shot, but they're all derived from the Stalin article in Wikipedia. This issue came up because someone created an article for him, and the question then arose over whether he actually was shot, and if so, for what. --[[User:Nagle|John Nagle]] 06:12, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
 
== [[Transnistria]] ==
You misunderstood my actions. I am not planning to delete that category, so don't worry. An article when it belongs to a subcategory of transnistria, it means it belongs also to transnistria. I took them off from transnistria category because they belong to sub-categories of transnistria. It is a rule; when there is sub category, or a stub the article belongs to its stub. I didn't took them off those which don't belong to transnistria stub.
--[[User:KRBN]] 16:45, 20 July 2006 (UTC)
 
==[[Józef Piłsudski]]==
Could you help adress the concerns you raised during FAC process? Unfortuanately I cannot find sources to satisfy your points.--[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]] <sup><font color="green">[[User_talk:Piotrus|Talk]]</font></sup> 15:14, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 
==[[Cult of personality]]==
Hello, I was just about to come looking for you. Do you have any scholarly works that discuss Ceasescu's personality cult (in the sense described by Krushchev) that you could work into that article?
 
I removed the Niyazov example because the sources don't conclude that he has made himself "larger than life," just very visible. [[User:Gazpacho|Gazpacho]] 21:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
 
:[[User:Zleitzen]] has said on the talk page that "well-known" and "documented in his article" aren't sufficient, and [[WP:V|policy]] is on his side. If you can come up with academic-quality sources that state Niyazov has created a cult and describe the ways he has done so, we can have him in the article. [[User:Gazpacho|Gazpacho]] 05:36, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 
== Eurotophobia ==
 
[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Eurotophobia]].
 
Lists of phobias is not a source for encyclopedic articles. One can derive a phobia word from every noun and verb. If you find a medical source which discussed this phobia, welcome. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 00:10, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
:Can you please move it to Wikitonary? --[[User:GoOdCoNtEnT|GoOdCoNtEnT]] 01:10, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
::I have done research and determined that is a real word. It was just misspelled on the source where I first found it. There already exists a page on it on Wikipedia. See [[erotophobia]]. The word is also on [http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=erotophobia dictionary.com], and [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/erotophobia Wiktionary]. --[[User:GoOdCoNtEnT|GoOdCoNtEnT]] 02:27, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
 
== ru:Участник:Mikkalai ==
 
Is [[:ru:Участник:Mikkalai|this]] you, or is it an impostor of yours? 02:30, 23 July 2006 (UTC)
:This is me. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]]
 
==Invitation to join [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Eastern Orthodoxy]]==
Hi there! I've noticed that you've edited articles pertaining to the [[Eastern Orthodox Church]]. I wanted to extend an invitation to you to join the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject|WikiProject]] dedicated to organizing and improving articles on the subject, which can be found at: '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Eastern Orthodoxy|WikiProject Eastern Orthodoxy]]'''. This WikiProject was begun because a need was perceived to raise the level of quality of articles on Wikipedia which deal with the Eastern Orthodox Church.
 
You can find information on the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Eastern Orthodoxy|project page]] about the WikiProject, as well as how to join and how to indicate that you are a member of the project. Additionally, you may be interested in helping out with our [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Eastern Orthodoxy/COTM|collaboration of the month]]. I hope you'll consider joining and thank you for your contributions thus far! &mdash;[[User:ASDamick|<font color="blue"><b><i>A.S. Damick</i></b></font>]] <sup>[[User_talk:ASDamick|<font color="red">talk</font>]]</sup> <sup>[[Special:Contributions/ASDamick|<font color="black">contribs</font>]]</sup> 01:19, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 
==Demkina - again!==
Hi Mikka. I didn't realize that you were the one who made Skeptical Investigations into a Wiki link -- thought it was Rohirok. I don't understand: why create a link to a Wiki article that doesn't exist? Not all references/external links are turned into empty Wiki article links, right? I'm still learning the ropes here. Thanks. [[User:Askolnick|Askolnick]] 18:16, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
 
==Zeusophobia==
Why did you remove it? Any reasonable reasons? [[User:Monkeykiss|Monkey Brain]]<sub>[[User_talk:Monkeykiss|(talk)]]</sub> 05:35, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
:Hm.. Since when are phobias considered diseases? All it is is a psychological condition. [http://google.com/search?q=define:phobia definitions around the web]. They are not diseases, and I don't think Zeusophobia is a hoax for that matter either, is simply a psychological cause. [http://www.answers.com/topic/zeusophobia Answers], [http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/zeusophobia wiktionary], [http://faculty.etsu.edu/tolleyst/weblog/wfaalop.htm weblog(list of phobias)], and a quick [http://www.google.com/search?q=zeusophobia google search] shows some result. Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe you're right, but can you show me an article that states Zeusophobia is a hoax? [[User:Monkeykiss|Monkey Brain]]<sub>[[User_talk:Monkeykiss|(talk)]]</sub> 06:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
::You got it all wrong: it is '''you''' who have to prove that it is real, using [[WP:RS|reputable references]]. The fact that it is cut-and-pasted into hundreds of phobia lists does not make it real. There is lots of bullshit circulating all over 'net. As for disease or not: in my reply the keywords were "joke" and "bogus", not "disease". I also suggest you to read thru [[Talk:-phobia/Archive02|the archive]] of [[talk:-phob-]] `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 06:20, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
:::Now that you have said that, I'll decide to [[Wikipedia:Ignore_all_rules|ignore the rules]] for now. And I also think that these selective cases of keeping the list of phobias seems to be a bit too biased (pick which I think is true/like, and the rest in the pile of junk). If you want to keep one, then do it for the all, otherwise just delete them all equally and without bias. However, ignoring the rules (from my part), I would like to see some articles on statements from a notable source where it states zeusophobia is a joke/bogus. I personally don't see the joke/bogusness of such a psychological condition. If you want, I can also say many religions say that by defying god, you will be punished for eternity in hell. And I would think that logically, such statement gives rise to zeusophobia(fear of god/s). So therefore it is a real thing. Not a "joke"/"bogus" as you have said. I have read the talk pages, but I did not see anything useful other than the split of articles. [[User:Monkeykiss|Monkey Brain]]<sub>[[User_talk:Monkeykiss|(talk)]]</sub> 07:06, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
::::There is fear of god(s), but there is no zeusophobia or godophobia, just as there is fear of ghosts, but there is no ghostophobia. People can fear of or dislike anything, but not all fears are notable to warrant an article and not all words that end in "-phobia" or "-ology" are real ones. And there is no democracy or egalitarism in wikipedia.If we have [[Bill Clinton]] article and don't have [[Joe Rumpelberger]], this alone doesn't mean that we either have to delete Bill or add Joe. Every topic is judged by its own merits. And it is '''your''' job to prove that Zeusophobia is a real term, not mine to prove that it was a joke. For one last time, reputable reference, please.
 
::::And, by the way, you are absolutely welcome to write the missing article, [[Fear of god]]. I completely agree that this topic deserves atention. (An whio would have known that [[Fear of God]] exists :-)) `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 15:40, 26 July 2006 (UTC)
:::::I'm not much of an article creator, but more of an editor. I'll leave that up for grabs. [[User:Monkeykiss|Monkey Brain]]<sub>[[User_talk:Monkeykiss|(talk)]]</sub> 23:36, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 
==[[Talk:Jogaila]]==
Hi there. Despite a whopping victory for the name [[Jogaila]] on the previous vote, the Polish users have got upset and called yet another vote. They want to get it moved back to the old unpopular name [[Władysław II Jagiełło]]. If you are interested in stopping this, you'll need to cast your vote again. Sorry for all this tediousness. Regards, '''[[User:Calgacus|Calgacus]] (''[[User talk:Calgacus|ΚΑΛΓΑΚΟΣ]]'')''' 03:49, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 
Quick comment on letter [[Ł]]. One has to remember that the written Polish language only started to be used in any extensive way in the 16th century. Once it came into use, the letter [[Ł]] was created immediately, since apparently there was a need to express that special sound, which must have been present in the Polish language long before. Therefore, to me it is not unreasonable to say that Jogaila took the name [[Władysław]], with that precise spelling, since that is how the name most likely sounded at the end of the 14th century (even if it was not written in that precise form then). [[User:Balcer|Balcer]] 18:15, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 
== Please use english ==
 
It would greatly help me understand your take on the [[User_talk:Ghirlandajo#Personal_remarks]] issue if you'd use English. I regret that I have only one language. [[User:Friday|Friday]] [[User talk:Friday|(talk)]] 23:40, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
 
: (comment) Mikka, I saw what you said at Ghirla's talk page, and I just wanted to point out a miscommunication, as it would seem that you may have mis-read my statement at WP:ANI. I never said that Ghirla said "Poles ''are'' Holes". I said that he was making comments about Poles ''and'' Holes [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=prev&oldid=66191685]. In any case, I did find the comments offensive, but I am willing to put the situation behind us at this point, and move forward with a fresh slate. --[[User:Elonka|Elonka]] 18:19, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
::Please re-read what you wrote at [[User talk:Ghirlandajo]]. A person on an edge like Ghirla have most surely read it as a deliberate falsification with the purpose of defamation. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 18:29, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
::: In actuality, it appears that he took immediate action, and commented out the statement in question. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ACategories_for_deletion%2FLog%2F2006_July_26&diff=65999989&oldid=65998938]. He never apologized for it or told me that he had done that though, so I did not learn this until later (after the block, as a matter of fact). --[[User:Elonka|Elonka]] 18:41, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 
I just want you to know that I agree with your unblocking of Ghirla, 24h for a ''second'' offence is enough. Let's hope he has learned his lesson. Still, you may want to explain your reasons on ANI just for the bookkeeping records (I already wrote there that I don't oppose your unblocking). Nonetheless you may want to be careful when unblocking familiar editors: consider how long my unblocking of Molobo and Halibutt is haunting me... Take care, --<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|&nbsp;Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&nbsp;]]|[[User_talk:Piotrus|<font style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;">&nbsp;talk&nbsp;</font>]]</span></sub> 19:18, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
 
 
==Regarding [[Persecution of Hindus]]==
Moved to [[Talk:Persecution of Hindus]]. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 02:13, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 
== Nixer ==
These articles are now being vandalized by Nixer:
 
[[Russian Empire]] - Reverts without provides. Rejects official sources and does not specify the sources. Refuses to cooperate.
 
[[Naval ranks and insignia of the Russian Federation]] and [[Ranks of the People's Liberation Army]] - multi 3RR violation
 
**{{vandal|Nixer}}
Please, help to stop his attack and reverts.--[[User:Oliversi|Oliversi]] 11:15, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
:[[User:Oliversi|Oliversi]] is a sockpuppet of Roitr (see [[User:Roitr/sockpuppetry]])--[[User:Nixer|Nixer]] 11:40, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::I am not a sockpuppet of a long-term vandal Roitr. Provide your accusations and suspicions. Still even if I am a sockpuppet of Roitr - is do not give you the right to break a rule of wikipedia.--[[User:Oliversi|Oliversi]] 11:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 
* Since this exact message has been places on 4 different admins by two different accounts, I would say that sockpuppet is perfectly reasonable.
**[[User_talk:Wikibofh#Nixer|my talk]]
**[[User_talk:Dbachmann#Nixer]]
**[[User_talk:Ezhiki#Nixer]]
**[[User_talk:Mikkalai#Nixer]]
:I think the contribs of the users posting look suspicious as well:
**{{vandal|Oliversi}}
**{{vandal|Bonaqua}}
:[[User:Wikibofh|Wikibofh]]<sub>([[User_talk:Wikibofh|talk]])</sub> 15:32, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 
== State Seal ==
 
moved to [[Talk:Russian_Empire#Gerb]]. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 19:41, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 
== Roitr ==
 
Can you please block the active accounts of Roitr from [[User:Roitr/sockpuppetry]]--[[User:Nixer|Nixer]] 19:49, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 
:The problem with Russian/Soviet military ranks is bogus rank system invented by our friend Roitr, and he seems resolved to push it no matter what actual findings are. Here are some previous discussions:
:[[User talk:Nixer#Comparative military ranks of World War II]]
:[[Talk:History of Russian military ranks#Russian military ranks]]
:[[Wikipedia talk:Long term abuse/Roitr]]
 
--[[User:DmitryKo|Dmitry]] 20:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 
== So Shri Krishna is an 'evil demon'?==
:Calling Shri Krishna an "evil demon" is a misinformation campaign. I was being polite. It's actually blatant defamation. This is in the [[Persecution of Hindus]] article.See talk page[[User:Subhash bose|Netaji]] 19:52, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
::Plz see my response in talk page. Thank you.[[User:Subhash bose|Netaji]] 22:47, 30 July 2006 (UTC)
 
== Cooperative ==
 
Hello Mikkalai. I am not sure if the Cooperative subject on Wikipedia was originally started by you, but today I saw you removed the external link on GKBI, The Federation of Indonesian Batik Cooperatives, which is one of the largest Cooperative for Batik in Indonesia (batik is the national ethnic-pattern on cloth-design), established since 1948 (57 years ago)and has 8,000 members. As that topic is about cooperatives and their existences worldwide.. it has Agricultural cooperative etc. so I think it is good to enrich that topic with batik cooperative as well. Please clarify the removal and if that was just a misunderstanding, kindly put that external link on GKBI back as it was. Regards, AA.
 
== State emblems ==
 
The state symbols of the [[Russian Empire]] were defined in the Corpus of Laws of the Russian Empire: [http://www.monarchruss.org/library/svod_zakonov.htm] (chapter 61). There were one gerb and three state seals (Big, Medium, and Small)--[[User:Nixer|Nixer]] 13:49, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 
== Bonaparte ==
 
Hi mikka,
 
Could you please help me out with [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=202.69.140.19 Bonaparte]? He's trolling again... Thanks. &mdash;<span style="font-family:Palatino Linotype">[[User:Khoikhoi|<font color="">Khoikhoi</font>]]</span> 18:08, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 
== alternative names of administrative divisions of ROmania ==
 
hi, please take a look to [[Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-07-17 names of administrative divisions of Romania]]. My opinion is Britannica naming convention regarding the administrative divisions of ROmania is an expert guide for wikiarticles, since Wikipedia lack explicit Naming convention for administrative divisions of Sovereign States. [[User:Criztu|Criztu]] 18:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 
oh, and i see u are able to revert more wikiarticles at once can u please tell me how can i do the same; thx [[User:Criztu|Criztu]] 18:45, 4 August 2006 (UTC)
 
== ASP ==
Hi, recently you removed a copyright violation from [[Application service provider]]. Could you add a link to the copied text, either here or as an external link on the article. Cheers, [[User:Jayvdb|Jayvdb]] 06:45, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
:Sorry, my fault. It seems that there are several common buzzphrases. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 15:14, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 
== Digital Pen / Digital Paper merge ==
 
Hi, why did you drop the "academic" section during your merge of [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Digital_pen&curid=2122076&diff=67729007&oldid=63523668] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Digital_paper&curid=1862137&diff=67729192&oldid=67346565]? [[User:Peter S.|Peter S.]] 13:43, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
 
== World War II controvercy ==
 
Do you have time please to have a look on the [[World War II]]. There is some movement leading to Nazi apology end even saying Germany started the war some users call "bias against German people". Probably we need some meditation.--[[User:Nixer|Nixer]] 09:07, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
 
==Satu Mare==
 
Hi, I would like to ask you to restore again the lead and protect the [[Satu Mare County]] article. Criztu is deleting from the lead everything he don't like (alternative names, historical regions, the note about local Hungarians). I think he already broke the 3RR but the real problem is the he launched an anti-Hungarian campaign all over the Transylvania county articles. See other users opinion about the case here: [[Wikipedia:Mediation Cabal/Cases/2006-07-17 names of administrative divisions of Romania]]. Thank you for your help! [[User:Zello|Zello]] 19:51, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 
== Hungarian names for administrative divisions of Romania ==
 
hi, i will ask you to read the [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (geographic names)]] about the use of names in the articles: ''Dispute resolution: Avoid revert wars: If there is a dispute regarding the naming convention in the contents of the article, to prevent revert wars the name from the title of the relevant article should be used in all occurrences until a consensus is reached on the relevant talk page(s). '' [[User:Criztu|Criztu]] 21:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
:Irrelevant. the dispute is not about naming convention. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 21:31, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
::i think ''the naming convention in the contents of the article'' refers to using a hungarian name in the lead section also [[User:Criztu|Criztu]] 17:48, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 
can you please explain it to me why Britannica does not provide a hungarian name for an administrative division of ROmania in the lead section of its article [[User:Criztu|Criztu]] 21:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
:This is wikipedia, with its content and rules. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 21:31, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 
can you please explain what is the difference between not providing a hungarian name for London in the lead section of the article, and providing a hungarian name for an administrative division of Romania in the lead section of the article [[User:Criztu|Criztu]] 21:26, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
:Respect to local population in a particular county, also mentioned in the lead section, because it is a distinctive feature of the county. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 21:31, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
 
May I jump in? I think non-local naims ''should'' be used for entities with common history, such as historic regions and city names, but not for modern administrative units. This is what we agreed to regarding Ukrainian articles with our Romanian and Polish colleagues. There is a Polish name in [[Lviv]] article and in [[Galicia]] article. There is a Romanian name in [[Bukovyna]] article and [[Chernivtsi]] article, but there are neither to modern administrative subdivisions such as [[Chernivtsi Oblast]] and [[Lviv Oblast]]. Just my 2c. --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 21:46, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
:No you may not :-) (without seeing the whole discussion). The whole point is that the name is '''local''', used by a ''significant'' minority. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 21:56, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
::no, the point is ''the hungarian language is not used in official documents of Romania, an administrative division of Romania does not have alternative names in hungarian language.''. The hungarian names of cities are not provided in the lead because they are used by hungarian minority, but because they are used in english sources [[User:Criztu|Criztu]] 17:48, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 
Sorry, feel then free to delete my post as it is useless and irrelevant. BTW, I sent you a quick email. I hope you don't mind :). Cheers, --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 22:13, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
:I know what you are talking about quite well; I've seen them all. My position is that names in local languages as well as historical names are ''encyclopedic information'', and useful, too (please show me a dictionary that will translate "Satu Mare judet" in a single piece for me). My only objection in some cases was cluttering of the intro sentence. If there is more than two languages/names, I stand for creation a separate section, "Names". Otherwise I don't buy any other arguments, since they are motivated by politicizing under pretences of "NPOV", "standard format", whatever. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 00:28, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Mikka, I am totally with you on that. Just one thing, note that there is a difference between the name of the historic territorry (or a city) which has historical names or the names in other languages are historical, and the names of the modern administrative subdivisions, which are mostly the creations of the 20th century. I see your clutter argument too. My overall approach was:
*Article is '''titled''' by a local name which, if not in Latin script, is transliterated by the Wiki-wide accepted translit rule ([[Lviv]], [[Chernivtsi]]), ''unless the most common English name exists'' ([[Kiev]], [[Odessa]], [[Warsaw]]) which always takes precedence even if it came into being due to the transliteration from the "wrong" (from the nationalist POV) language
*Other names, historic, other languages that were significant in local history should be listed in the '''first line''' unless there is a special "Names" or "Etymology" section in the article, or we get rid of it all by the link to the "list of names in languages" article like you done in Lviv
*''In text'' usage is complicated and dealt with separately.
But this all applies to etnities that have historic names. Modern administrative subdivisions, are modern and, hence, have no "historic" names. There is no Polish (or Romanian) historic name for [[Chernivtsi Oblast]] or [[Lviv Oblast]] (respectively) while there certainly are for the towns themselves ([[Lviv]], [[Chernivtsi]]) and historic areas ([[Bukovina]], [[Galicia]]). Russian names could be "historic" for the oblasts though. That's how (and in agreement with our neighbors) we purged the Romanian and Polish names from the Oblast articles, but I would not even think of purging them from the city or territory articles where they are historic and, thus, governed by the common sense rules above. Maybe the HU/RO issue above is different from the case of Ukraine I described. Maybe there are different nuances. I don't know and I leave this to you guys. I just thought for a second that this is somewhat similar to the Ukrainian oblasts (vs towns) articles and thought I say a word here for the record. Cheers, --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 01:02, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
::Actually, Irpen, I would agree with mikka that the alternative names should rather be described in a separate section, instead in putting them all in brackets in the first line. It would lower the tension, as it eliminates the fight for the first line. This should apply to both, historical and modern entities. --[[User:KPbIC|KPbIC]] 01:28, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 
Irpen, the situation is different in Transylvania because the county names are not historical. They are the present-day Hungarian names used by the local Hungarian population. The historical names are sometimes the same, sometimes different as the former Hungarian administration were not totally the same as the present-day ones. For example '''Harghita County''' - present Hung. name: '''Hargita megye''', historical Hun. names: '''Csíkszék''' and '''Udvarhelyszék'''. [[User:Zello|Zello]] 13:24, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 
The issue here is more narrow. Do modern admin subdivisions have "historic names" to speak about at all (unlike towns and historic provinces/territories)? How to deal with the etnities that ''have'' historic names is a separate issue. (I favor a separate section (within the article) or in its absence a first line or a link to the "list of names in languages" article.) My point is that unlike towns themselves, the modern subdivisions don't have historic foreign names, except perhaps the Russian names for the Ukrainian and Belarusian oblasts since the modern ones are direct successors from the Soviet ones (even their borders did not change). There is no Polish history of [[Lviv Oblast]] while there is quite a bit of [[Lviv]] and [[Galicia]] and many oblast towns and villages. --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 01:39, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
::Irpen, I would agree with your modern usage argument. But, too bad, you use this as an argument in one situation, and use opposite arguments in the other. As an example, regardless of "Kyiv Oblast" being much better established than "Kiev Oblast", you argued that because "Kyiv" is "Kiev", the same should apply to the oblast name. --[[User:KPbIC|KPbIC]] 02:02, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
I will answer that at Dnipro laucnh vehicle talk. You don't need to ask the same q twice. If I haven't answered, I haven't got to it and your one more accusation against me has nothing at all to do to Mikka's talk. --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 02:10, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
::Well, I don't want to be too peaky, but have to point out that your actions show the true value you put on your arguments. --[[User:KPbIC|KPbIC]] 02:31, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
:::[[WP:STALK]] and [[WP:DFTT]] apply. --[[User:Irpen|Irpen]] 03:35, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Further personal discussion at [[User talk:Irpen]] --[[User:KPbIC|KPbIC]] 06:04, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 
 
------
 
mikkalai, can you please explain to me though, why is there no hungarian name in the lead section of London, altho there are hungarians living in London (we may choose other ethnicities). [[User:Criztu|Criztu]] 17:53, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
:For the same reason by which there is no Hungarian name in [[Suceava County]]. If you fail to see the difference in status of Hungarians in Satu Mare and in London, you have a really big problem, which I am not going to discuss. Good luck in your nationalistic struggle.
::Actualy there are a Hungarian minority in Suceava, a Ukrainian minority and a Rroma minority. As there is a Hungarian minority in London, and other minorities. The status of the Hungarians in Satu Mare county is similar to the status of other minorities of Romania, like Germans, Ukrainians, Russians, Turks, Bulgarians, Serbians, etc. Their language is not an official language of Romania. [[User:Criztu|Criztu]] 19:11, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
:(for occasional readers: Criztu pretends that he does not know that, quoting, ''"local public administration authorities will provide inscriptions for the names of localities and public institutions under their authority, and display public interests announcements in the native language of the citizens of the respective ethnic minority"''. This means that, say, an American tourist in Satu Mare may have a real chance to see a Hungarian name written somewhere. (It is a totally different issue that people like Criztu will make everything possible to prevent this from happening)). `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 18:40, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
::The law in Romania says : "''At local level (meaning localities) the administration will provide inscriptions for the names of localities and public institutions(meaning Hospital, Police, School) under their authority, and display public interests announcements in the native language of the citizens of the respective ethnic minority. The official documents are written only in Romanian"''(meaning the Hungarian name of Satu Mare appears nowhere in the documents of ROmania [[User:Criztu|Criztu]] 19:11, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
:Wikipedia is not an official document of Romania, neithe rit is limited to description of only official documents, of Romania or of anything else. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 19:14, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
::as i understand it, the Hungarian name of London is not used in English sources. this is why it is not provided in the London article as an alternative name. the Hungarian name of Satu Mare county is not used in English sources, this is why it is not provided in the Satu Mare county article of Britannica. It is not about how many Hungarians live in London or in Satu Mare county, but if the Hungarian name of London or Satu Mare county is used in English sources(maps, letters, newsreports, old encyclopedias) [[User:Criztu|Criztu]] 19:22, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
::: Wikipedia does not forbid usage of sources written in languages other than English. `'[[user:mikkalai|mikka]] [[user talk:mikkalai|(t)]] 19:37, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 
== "Other uses" discussion ==
 
You were previously involved in discussions relating to whether the wording of templates such as {{tl|otheruses}} should simply say "For other uses" as it currently does or should read differently. I've started a discussion on the issue at [[Wikipedia talk:Disambiguation#"Other uses" of what?]] and thought you might be interested. —[[User:Simetrical|Simetrical]] ([[User talk:Simetrical|talk]]&nbsp;•&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Simetrical|contribs]]) 03:01, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
 
== Category pages... ==
 
What do you mean sub categories? Sry but I am kind of new to this. I am working on Naturalized citizens of the united states by nationality and will add a template that can be found on the right of this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Swedish_Americans
 
You wouldn't happen to know how to do that template by any chance would you?
 
Thanks!
 
[[User:Here2fixCategorizations|Here2fixCategorizations]] 20:12, 8 August 2006 (UTC)