Talk:Mozart's compositional method: Difference between revisions

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==One composer's testimony==

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-Simon Cleveland. <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">—Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/71.177.249.74|71.177.249.74]] ([[User talk:71.177.249.74|talk]]) 18:35, 15 April 2009 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:UnsignedIP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->

The observation of Adam has to do with a partial view about the process of composition. I learned "traditionally" harmony and counterpoint "at the table". I also can do it and wrote indeed many arrangements on the go, before the rehearsal. But after studying in France, I went to Germany and studied church music. And enlarged my views studying for me historical pedagogy of music. There in german church music and more typically before 1850, the composition was direved from improvisation, generally at the organ. There are many advantages to know compose on the spot at the keyboard, and generally speaking composers before this date learnedd composing at the harpsichord then the organ. [[Special:Contributions/186.31.218.229|186.31.218.229]] ([[User talk:186.31.218.229|talk]]) 16:04, 24 January 2017 (UTC)

==Followup==

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:Thank you. I agree completely with your two main points: we should focus on Mozart himself, and we should go with the documentary evidence. [[User:Opus33|Opus33]] ([[User talk:Opus33|talk]]) 23:50, 6 November 2009 (UTC)

== Constanze's srategicstrategic preservation of Mozart's unfinished manuscripts ==

The article states:

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Best to all,

[[User:Douglas Michael Massing|Michael]] ([[User talk:Douglas Michael Massing|talk]]) 23:34, 22 June 2012 (UTC)

{{reflist-talk}}

== Mention (allude to) the Rochlitz forgery in the lead? ==

"Nineteenth century views on this topic were often based on a romantic, mythologizing conception of the process of composition. More recent scholarly study has attempted to address the issue through systematic examination of the surviving letters and documents, and has arrived at rather different conclusions."

I am enough of a materialist to regret no reference to the Rochlitz forgery in the lead, e.g.:

:Nineteenth century views on this topic were often based on a romantic, mythologizing conception of the process of composition. Such mythmaking included promulgation and acceptance of a letter, later found to be [[Mozart%27s_compositional_method#The_Rochlitz_letter|a forgery]], purporting to represent Mozart's own description of his compositional process. More recent scholarship addresses this issue through systematic examination of authenticated letters and documents, and has arrived at rather different conclusions.

Just a reaction as a reader/user. Same disclaimers as above.

[[User:Douglas Michael Massing|Michael]] ([[User talk:Douglas Michael Massing|talk]]) 00:15, 23 June 2012 (UTC)

:Thanks, I put it in. [[User:Opus33|Opus33]] ([[User talk:Opus33|talk]]) 06:36, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

::Thanks, Opus 33! [[User:Douglas Michael Massing|Michael]] ([[User talk:Douglas Michael Massing|talk]]) 20:42, 24 June 2012 (UTC)

:::I just noticed that while Rochlitz is no longer mentioned in the lead, the addition of the word "authenticated" unobtrusively suggests lack of authentication for some sources, without getting bogged down in a particular controversy. Well done! [[User:Douglas Michael Massing|Michael]] ([[User talk:Douglas Michael Massing|talk]]) 06:24, 9 January 2021 (UTC)

== Use of a keyboard ==

Is the sentence "''Mozart evidently needed a keyboard to work out his musical thoughts''" something that can be sourced or is it an editor's own deduction based on the data given in that section? <small><font style="color:#C0C0C0;font-family:Courier New;">Contact </font><font style="color:blue;font-family:Courier-New;">[[User:Basemetal|Basemetal]]</font> <font style="color:red;font-family:Courier-New;">[[User talk:Basemetal|here]]</font></small> 02:57, 30 May 2013 (UTC)

== Misunderstanding sources ==

I think in this article sources were misunderstood, not properly used or are lacking.

(1) "Mozart evidently needed a keyboard to work out his musical thought." No source is citated for such a serious sentence: I personally don't agree and I never read this in any Mozart biography I know, so I think a source is needed. The author of this article cannot make any "deduction" unless he has a publication to indicate.

(2) "On one occasion, Mozart evidently used his improvisational ability to bolster his limitations in sight-reading." This seems absolutely wrong! The citated Grétry doesn't prove anything else than Mozart's improvisational ability. Playing different passages could have been deliberate. This source does not in any sense link improvisation to lack of memory.

(3) "One may perhaps question whether in these instances Mozart retained the entire keyboard part note for note in his head; given the independent testimony (above) for his ability to fill in gaps through improvisation..." I'm afraid the author of this article doesn't know music at all. There's no possibility nor any need to retain by memory any piece of music "note for note", just as this is not the way human memory works. (I write "human" because I do not share the author's opinion that retaining a piece by memory would be something "quasi-miracolous" or "superhuman", nor I think this idea should be suggested in an encyclopedia. Retaining a piece by memory is not what scholars mean with "prodigious memory", just as it isn't anything special.) Retaining any piece of music, and most of all a classical one, involves schematic thought - not single-element-memory.

(4) "In particular, the use of keyboards and sketches to compose, noted above, would not have been necessary for a composer who possessed superhuman memory. (...) Another instance of Mozart's powerful memory concerns his memorization and transcription of Gregorio Allegri's "Miserere" in the Sistine Chapel as a 14-year-old. Here again, various factors suggest great skill on Mozart's part, but not a superhuman miracle: the work in question is somewhat repetitive, and that Mozart was able to return to hear another performance, correcting his earlier errors. Maynard Solomon suggests that Mozart may have seen another copy earlier." Extremely superficial and narrow.

I hope this article will be rewritten soon, as it's not in any sense a sufficient dissertation.

[[User:Armandotomin|Armandotomin]] ([[User talk:Armandotomin|talk]]) 20:55, 19 September 2014 (UTC)

== My thoughts ==

Mozart has to be a strong problem solver and critical thinker in my eyes. Creating such large-scale interconnected works requires I assume a certain patience, persistence, and ability to plan-out such works [[User:Adamilo|Adamilo]] ([[User talk:Adamilo|talk]]) 01:08, 13 August 2020 (UTC)