Battle of Iwo Jima and User talk:Skookum1: Difference between pages

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Revision as of 02:08, 17 April 2007

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{{Infobox Military Conflict

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|conflict=Battle of Iwo Jima

<div style="text-align: center">[[Image:Vista-file-manager.png|50px|Archive]]<br />

|partof=[[World War II]], [[Pacific War]]

[[Wikipedia:How to archive a talk page|'''Archives''']]

|image=[[Image:WW2 Iwo Jima flag raising.jpg|300px|U.S. troops raising the flag on Iwo Jima]]

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|caption=U.S. troops [[raising the Flag on Iwo Jima]], by [[Joe Rosenthal]] / [[Associated Press]]

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|date=[[February 19]] [[1945]] &ndash; [[March 16]], [[1945]]

# [[User talk:Skookum1/Archive 1|October 28, 2005 - October 31, 2006]]

|place=[[Iwo Jima]], [[Japan]]

# [[User talk:Skookum1/Archive 2|November 1, 2006 - January 27, 2007]]

|result=U.S. victory

# [[User talk:Skookum1/Archive 3|January 28, 2007 - March 27, 2007]]

|combatant1=[[Image:US flag 48 stars.svg|20px]] [[United States]]

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|combatant2=[[Image:Flag of Japan (bordered).svg|20px]] [[Empire of Japan]]

|commander1=[[Holland Smith]]

|commander2=[[Tadamichi Kuribayashi]]{{KIA}}

|strength1=110,000

|strength2=22,000

|casualties1=4,197 killed in action<ref name="morison">{{cite book | last = Morison | first = Samuel Eliot | authorlink = Samuel Eliot Morison | coauthors = | year = 1963 | chapter = Iwo Jima and Okinawa | title = The Two-Ocean War | publisher = Ballantine Books, Inc. | ___location = New York, New York, USA | id = ISBN 45-02493-1-195 | page = 443}}</ref><br>19,189 wounded<ref name="morison"/><br>1,401 died of wounds<ref name="morison"/><br>494 missing<ref name="morison"/>

|casualties2=20,703 killed<ref name="morison"/><br>216 captured<ref name="morison"/>

}}

{{Campaignbox Ryukyus}}

{{Campaignbox Pacific Ocean}}

The '''Battle of Iwo Jima''' was fought by the [[United States of America]] and the [[Empire of Japan]] in February and March [[1945]], during the [[Pacific War|Pacific Campaign]] of [[World War II]]. The U.S. invasion, known as Operation Detachment, was aimed at capturing the [[airbase|airfield]]s on [[Iwo Jima]].

== Rugged Point volcanoes ==

The battle is famous as the origin of a picture of five Marines from the [[5th Marine Division]], along with a U.S. Navy corpsman, raising the [[Flag of the United States|U.S. flag]] atop the 166 meter (546&nbsp;ft) [[Mount Suribachi]], the highest point on [[Iwo Jima]], during the battle. The Marines captured Suribachi in the first week of fighting. Three of the six flag-raisers were killed before Iwo Jima was secured.

It appears that there are no volcanoes on Vancouver Island, just on the mainland of British Columbia according to [http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/frequent_questions/grp3/question2192.html Volcano World]. [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] 18:46, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

==The Island==

{{main|Iwo Jima}}

[[Iwo Jima]], which means "Sulfur Island" in [[Japanese language|Japanese]], is one of the [[Volcano Islands]], part of the [[Ogasawara]], a group of islands about 1,080 km (522 miles) south of [[Tokyo]], 1,130 km (555 miles) north of [[Guam]], and nearly halfway between Tokyo and [[Saipan]] (24.756°N, 141.290°E)

== Volcanics near Rugged Point ==

==Background==

I found out that an ancient tectonic plate called the [[Kula Plate]] used to have volcanic and sedimentary rocks about 55 million years ago that were scraped off and plastered against the continental margin when it was being [[subduction|subducted]] under the [[North American Plate]], forming Vancouver Island. [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] 17:23, 28 March 2007 (UTC)

After the American seizure of the [[Marshall Islands]] and devastating [[Operation Hailstone|air attacks]] against [[Truk]] in the [[Caroline Islands]] in February [[1944]], the Japanese military leadership reappraised the military situation. All indications pointed to an American drive towards the [[Mariana Islands|Marianas]] and Carolines. To counter such a move, they established an inner line of defense extending generally northward from the Carolines to the Marianas, and thence to the [[Ogasawara Islands]]. In March 1944, the Thirty-First Army, commanded by General [[Hideyoshi Obata]], was activated for the purpose of garrisoning this inner line. The commander of the [[Chichi Jima]] [[garrison]] was placed nominally in command of Army and Navy units in the Ogasawara Islands.

==Chinaman (dab)==

Following the American seizure of bases in the Marshalls in the battles of [[Battle of Kwajalein|Kwajalein]] and [[Battle of Eniwetok|Eniwetok]] in February 1944, both Army and Navy reinforcements were sent to Iwo Jima. Five hundred men from the naval base at [[Yokosuka]] and an additional 500 from [[Chichi Jima]] reached Iwo Jima during March and April 1944. At the same time, with the arrival of reinforcements from Chichi Jima and the home islands, the Army garrison on Iwo Jima had reached a strength of over 5,000 men, equipped with 13 artillery pieces, 200 light and heavy machine guns, and 4,552 rifles. In addition there were a number of 120&nbsp;mm coastal artillery guns, twelve heavy [[anti-aircraft]] guns, and thirty 25&nbsp;mm dual-mount anti-aircraft guns.

I presume the edit I made will be bastardized within hours. Whether the term is derogatory or outdated or ''floral'' shouldn't be placed on a disambig page because then there becomes an edit war over "proof" that the word is ''whatever''. This leads to the "need" for references on a page that shouldn't have them. The question, proof, explanation, etc. of what the term means is gone into on the article's page itself. Disambig pages should only consist of concise descriptions to help a searcher determine which term they meant to be looking for, not in depth explanations of said terms. Thanks, I hope it holds, too. [[User:Chickenmonkey|Chickenmonkey]] 02:08, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

::''because then there becomes an edit war over "proof" that the word is whatever.

:Yeah, that's exactly what happened here over the last few weeks, in fact. The demand for references was by HQG, who's since backed down variously/considerably on what the page should have and/or be about. But there's always going to be someone who wants to rev up the language (and politics) to suit themselves; to me it's no better than the hooligan vandalisms of the last few days, as it's much similar in tone (esp. re the one edit commented on in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Chinaman&curid=10172774&diff=118921430&oldid=118921213\my recent edit] to the main talkpage, about the tone of invective, which is of course rooted in emotion. Encyclopedias can document that emotions exist, but they shouldn't express them, no? Thanks; this page is going to always take some watching over...[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 02:18, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

::I agree encyclopedias shouldn't express emotions, in the general sense, and disambig pages in encyclopedias definitely shouldn't. It's kind of like a phonebook listing ''the ugly John Smith'' or ''the famous Jane Doe''. [[User:Chickenmonkey|Chickenmonkey]] 02:38, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

:::....something that might be useful to say on the talkpage...[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 02:46, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

::::I'll certainly keep an eye on the page and mention these things if need be. Whether anyone will listen? Who knows. [[User:Chickenmonkey|Chickenmonkey]] 03:00, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

The loss of the Marianas during the summer of 1944 greatly increased the importance of the Ogasawaras for the Japanese, who were well aware that the loss of these islands would facilitate American air raids against the home islands, disrupting war manufacturing and severely damaging civilian morale.

Hey again. With the dab page on Chinaman, or with any dab page, the most common usage should be the intro (if there is to be an intro). Given that a search for "chinaman" goes straight to [[Chinaman]], I assumed the most common usage was accepted to be "a term used to refer to a Chinese man". That, along with the qualifier you used "or in a less common usage", I would say that the other two uses in the intro should probably be listed with the other "alternate" uses. Which, according to policy (I think) all "alternate" uses listed should be linked to a page that mentions the term. [[Porcelain]] doesn't mention "chinaman". I don't doubt the three uses listed without being linked to an article that uses the term are accurate, but I'm going to remove the "drug reference" usage and the "porcelain" usage for now. I'm sure, with the China trade ship usage, the [[Old China Trade]] article (I think would be accurate, not sure) could be edited to include a sourced usage of the term "chinaman" to refer to their ships. [[User:Chickenmonkey|Chickenmonkey]] 04:13, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

Final Japanese plans for the defense of the Ogasawaras were overshadowed by the fact that the [[Imperial Japanese Navy]] had already lost most of its strength and could no longer prevent American landings. Moreover, aircraft losses throughout 1944 had been so heavy that, even if war production were not affected by American air attacks, combined Japanese air strength was not expected to increase to 3,000 aircraft until March or April of 1945. Even then, these planes could not be used from bases in the home islands against Iwo Jima because their range did not exceed 900 km (550 miles); besides, all available aircraft had to be hoarded for possible use on [[Taiwan]] and adjacent islands near land bases.

Oh, the Chinaman as a porcelain dealer is well-established, and in fact in one dictionary quoted on the [[Talk:Chinaman]] page (or its archive) it's the first listed; the ship ref is even older, but much less common; I found two usages in Kipling, as well as somewhere out there today I found a 1740 cite for it, in a time when we were still toying with "Chinnish" and "Chinian" to name the people of the new country "we" were trading with. But as for the chinaware thing:

In a postwar study, Japanese staff officers described the strategy applied in the defense of Iwo Jima in the following terms:

*[http://www.thechinaman.co.uk/RunScript.asp?p=ASP\Pg0.asp The Chinaman - a shop in the UK]

shows that it's alive and well, and probably quite normal in England; I suspect it's pronounced China + man, with more emphasis on "man", as in "old China hand"; or like some Newfs instructed me long ago, "Newfoundland rhymes with 'understand'". Whatever; there's no article needed for [[Chinaman (porcelain dealer)]], not that I can see; but it's certainly a real usage, and in fact older than the [[demonym]]. And as for the ship, I'm not sure if it was a physical type of vessel, or more the nature of the ship's business/trade/route; maybe we'll find that out somewhere....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 04:19, 1 April 2007 (UTC)

== Taking A Stab At ==

:In the light of the above situation, seeing that it was impossible to conduct our air, sea, and ground operations on Iwo Jima toward ultimate victory, it was decided that in order to gain time necessary for the preparation of the Homeland defence, our forces should rely solely upon the established defensive equipment in that area, checking the enemy by delaying tactics. Even the suicidal attacks by small groups of our Army and Navy airplanes, the surprise attacks by our submarines, and the actions of parachute units, although effective, could be regarded only as a strategical ruse on our part. It was a most depressing thought that we had no available means left for the exploitation of the strategical opportunities which might from time to time occur in the course of these operations.

I sifted through some other articles on the coast with the Indigenous cultures and nations. I realized for a group which is heavily written about, there was little about. So, my main focus is working on the Kwakwaka'wakw, it's affiliations, and tribal groups. I moved a few articles around, and fixed up a couple others, but you noticed that already. The [[Kwakwaka'wakw]] article will become my main focus, along with the tribes. I'm probably going to create articles for all the tribes, if they are not created, but I think you kind of did that with 'so and so Nation'. I just think it should be the name of their nation, with other links following, ye know? I'll search around for pictures, and maybe stop by VPL to get some resources for books on the Kwakwaka'wakw. Let the article pimpin' begin! [[User:OldManRivers|OldManRivers]] 05:31, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

:See the

In the opening days of [[1945]], [[Japan]] faced the prospect of invasion by the American forces. Daily bomber raids from the Marianas hit the mainland as part of [[Operation Scavenger]]. Iwo Jima served as an early warning station which radioed reports of incoming bombers back to mainland Japan, allowing Japanese air defenses to be prepared for the arrival of American bombers.

{| align="center" class="toccolours" cellspacing="0"

|- bgcolor="#ccccff"

| align="center" | '''[[Kwakwaka'wakw peoples]]'''

|- align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"

|

[[Laich-kwil-tach|Laich-kwil-tach (Wei Wai Kai)]] | [[Wei Wai Kum]] | [[Gwa'sala]] | [['Nakwaxda'xw]] | [[K'ómoks|K'ómoks (Comox)]] | [[Kwicksutaineuk-ah-kwa-mish]] | [[‘Namgis]] | [[Quatsino]] | [[Da'naxda'xw]] | [[Awaetlatla]] | [[Tlatlasikwala]] | [[Tlowitsis]] | [[Kwiakah]] | [[Kwagyulh]] | [[Mamalilikulla]] | [[Qwe'Qwa'Sot'Em]]

|}

and other templates for tribal breakdowns, non-band.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 06:23, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

==Not sure why FN cat is displaying here==

At the end of the [[Battle of Leyte]] in the [[Philippines]], the Allies were left with a two month lull in their operations prior to the planned [[Battle of Okinawa|invasion of Okinawa]]. Iwo Jima was strategically important: it provided an airbase for Japanese aircraft to intercept long-range [[B-29 Superfortress|B-29]] bombers and provided a haven for Japanese naval units in dire need of any support available. The capture of Iwo Jima would eliminate these problems and provide a staging area for the eventual invasion of the Japanese mainland. The distance of B-29 raids would be nearly halved, and a base would be available for [[P-51 Mustang]] fighters to escort and protect the devastating bomber raids. Intelligence sources were confident that Iwo Jima would fall in five days, unaware that the Japanese were preparing a quintessentially defensive posture, radically departing from any of their previous tactics. So successful was the Japanese preparation that it was discovered after the battle that the hundreds of tons of allied bombs and thousands of rounds of heavy naval gunfire left the Japanese defenders almost unscathed, and ready to wreak losses on the [[United States Marine Corps|U.S. Marines]] unparalleled up to that point in the Pacific War. In the light of the optimistic intelligence reports, the decision was made to invade Iwo Jima: the landing was designated Operation Detachment.

I just noticed "I" am in the [[:Category:First Nations in British Columbia|BC First Nations category]]., I just had a look through the page to see if I could spot where I didn't, maybe, use the colon format [[:Category:First Nations in British Columbia]], but I looked through the edit-source and can't see/find it. What's causing this? If anyone else can find it, pls rmv.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 21:29, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

==Japanese planning==

[[Image:Tadamichi Kuribayashi1.jpg|left|thumbnail|200px|[[Lieutenant General]] [[Tadamichi Kuribayashi]], commander of the Japanese garrison defending Iwo Jima]]

Even before the [[Battle of Saipan|fall of Saipan]] in June 1944, Japanese planners knew that Iwo Jima would have to be reinforced significantly if it were to be held for any length of time, and preparations were made to send sizable numbers of men and quantities of [[materiel]] to that island. In late May, Lieutenant General [[Tadamichi Kuribayashi]] was summoned to the office of the Prime Minister, General [[Hideki Tojo]], and told that he had been chosen to defend Iwo Jima to the last. Kuribayashi was further apprised of the importance of this assignment when Tojo pointed out that the eyes of the entire nation were focused on the defense of Iwo Jima. Fully aware of the implications of the task, the general accepted, and by [[8 June]] [[1944]], Kuribayashi was on his way to convert Iwo Jima into an impregnable fortress.

:See the section directly above this one. The template in there puts pages that transclude it into the category. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 21:46, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

When he arrived, some 80 fighter aircraft were stationed on Iwo Jima, but by early July only four remained. A [[United States Navy]] force then came within sight of the island and bombarded it for two days, destroying every building and the four remaining aircraft.

::Didn't you know that you, Skookum1, is First Nations? lol [[User:OldManRivers|OldManRivers]] 21:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

:::I know, I just noticed that and tried to fix it; must be a hidden Category reference, maybe on one of the archive pages; I've asked User:Xiner to help me as I can't find it myself, despite thorough searching.....still can't find that map I'm talking about; lots of pages to sort through, might be a language page or main nation page, or even a subnation page - one of the external links, goes to a really elaborate language-areas map with neat floating overlays you can turn off. BTW ''YOU'' should have a look at the BC MapPlace links I just put on the BC WikiProject page, and check out the First Nations displays...this is the same technology used to build the other map; maybe that one is linked off the main MapPlace page....hmmmm.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 21:59, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

Much to the surprise of the Japanese garrison on Iwo Jima, there was no American attempt to invade the island during the summer of 1944. There was little doubt that in time the Americans would attack, and General Kuribayashi was more determined than ever to exact the heaviest possible price for Iwo Jima, although the lack of naval and air support meant that Iwo Jima could not hold out indefinitely against an invader with sea and air supremacy.

== [[BC Treaty Process]] ==

By late July Kuribayashi had evacuated all civilians from the island. Lieutenant General [[Hideyoshi Obata]], commanding general of the 31st Army, early in 1944 had been responsible for the defense of Iwo Jima prior to his return to the Marianas. Following the doctrine that an invasion had to be met practically at the water's edge, Obata had ordered the emplacement of artillery and the construction of [[Blockhouse|pillboxes]] near the beaches. General Kuribayashi had a different strategy. Instead of attempting to hold the beaches, he planned to defend them with a sprinkling of automatic weapons and infantry. Artillery, mortars, and rockets would be emplaced on the foot and slopes of Mount Suribachi, as well as in the high ground to the north of Chidori airfield.

I started it. Personally, I think it's great as it is, but I think others will want to add more. If you want to help out with it, that would be great. I'm going to find source material on the whole BC Treaty Process. I don't know a whole lot about the actual histories of each things, but, I know the Nisga'a Treaty was a template for the BC Treaty Process, or as I like call it, ''Selfish-Government''. I also plan on starting [[senakw]] soon because the history of that village, pertaining to Vancouver would be great. (Ya know, how the missionaries and government murdered and destroyed the village.) [[User:OldManRivers|OldManRivers]] 21:43, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

:Yeah, I guess that's the title it's usually known by these days; but NB it's for THIS process, not the previous ones with the NDP, or the century-long abstention by the BC government that led to the Land Claims impasse in the first place (Ottawa wanted them to settle over a century ago; 85% of the province was Government Reserve as a result, land held in abeyance of eventual settlement, until its original political purpose/stake was forgotten/shoved aside and in 1976 the new Forests Act assigned the whole shebang to be run by the Forest Industry; this was, IMO, a tactical/pre-emptive move to take the resources before they could be handed back over; and the deal is that MacMillan Bloedel, who got over half the wood (maybe as high 2/3; I've forgotten - this is from an old [[Allan Fotheringham]] article, I think....), was ''the'' main backer of the Bill Bennett election campaign in 1975. The item I saw on the Forests Act was coming from the environmental angle and didn't make the FN connection; I recognized it when in another article or book I came across the Government Reserve-as-collateral-for-eventual-land-claims-settlement context in an analysis of how the land claims impasse had come about. As early as Dufferin's visit in 1874 BC was getting dressed down about needing to settle, so as to not leave a legal vacuum, and it was an issue in the Confederation discussions; the BC position post-Confederation was that the plebiscite to join Canada had somehow wiped any provincial responsibility for land claims or native governance, which was all Ottawa's problem; but Ottawa couldn't settle without BC, and Ottawa wouldn't/couldn't come to the table if BC didn't, and BC wouldn't. ''Anyway'' (as I could go on...). I think a history of [[Land Claims in British Columbia]] or something is a separate potential article, covering all the history of the various native political/legal manoeuvres and statements, from the original Nisga'a declarations and the Lillooet Declaration and others like those right down to Delgamuukw, Vander Zalm's grandstanding at Toba which was quickly followed by the chopper visit to [[Seton Portage]] which was followed up by five dozen riot-squad mounties, the NDP's "go" at a treaty process, the Campbell government's about face, which then introduces the current Treaty Process. The bands/peoples who abstain or have only observer status should all be noted, of course.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 22:08, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

::Oh gods Treaty just agitates the hell out of me. [[User:OldManRivers|OldManRivers]]

:::You're not the only one. It's taken me years to straighten out what went down, i.e. technicality wise, and it's frustrating to watch/hear rehashes and modern-day press/political spins on it that don't conform to the actual history. Most British Columbians don't want to know; most also want it settled in the natives' favour, although you wouldn't think that from the letters to the editors and op-ed columns (that's intentional; they give airtime to loudmouths to drive readership, as people love to read people they hate...); and when I say "most British Columbians" I'm not referring to the new wave of immigrants, wherever they're from (Asia, Eastern Canada, Europe, Africa, wherever) but to the "old" BC intercultural community; sympathy for the native positionsn and a "damned right of course they own it" attitude has been around for a long time; it's just never given a media voice unless the person can be painted as a leftist or a loon or protesthead or whatever; calmer voices like Suzuki's and Glavin's are deliberately drowned out....whatever, it's sunny, man, and I've got to get outside with the guitar and open up for a while...talk to you later.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 22:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

::::And btw most people I'm talking about want a settlement not because of economic/market stability, which is the political motivation lately (as well as land scams right and left, as with Tsawwassen and Temexw), but because they want to see justice. Canadians, though a bunch of up-tight pricks for the most part, are inherently decent-minded and believe in fairness, and although there's some bozos who say "get over it" or "they deserved it/no better" who get a lot of airtime/copyspace the vast majority of people are horrified and also know that they wouldn't like it if their grandparents were stripped of their rights, lands etc; you'd think the Chinese community, so hot-to-trot for its own settlement, would have recognized the much more severe abuse your people went through, and continue so to this day; but all new groups just see it all as dollars and sense; settlement for new money types, whether from ON or China or wherever, is all about economic stability and political embarrassment; but consider human/indigenous rights in places where most of them come from, and you begin to see why IMO, if I'm right, there's a general lack of sympathy for the natives among the newer elements, as they just have no connection to it and don't want to know anyway; although how natives were treated ''is'' brought up as something to be critical of the so-called "dominant culture" with. So "be of good faith" Wiki-style with some of us ''hwelitem'', even ones that don't know as much as I do (and I know too much for my own damned good), as people want to know, they do want to fix what's done, and they're just as frustrated with the politicians as you are (and about nearly everything). Don't confuse the people with the politicians, I guess, is the way to sum that up. It goes for the old days too; there are lots and lots of stories of ordinary folks getting along with their native neighbours and cooperators etc; it's the bad stuff that gets print/air.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 22:28, 31 March 2007 (UTC)

==An Automated Message from [[User:HagermanBot|HagermanBot]]==

===Caves and tunnels===

A prolonged defense of the island required the preparation of an extensive system of caves and tunnels, for the naval bombardment had clearly shown that surface installations could not withstand extensive shelling. To this end, mining engineers were dispatched from Japan to draw blueprints for projected underground fortifications that would consist of elaborate tunnels at varying levels to assure good ventilation and minimize the effect of bombs or shells exploding near the entrances or exits.

Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to [[Wikipedia:Talk page|talk pages]] and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|sign your posts]] by typing four tildes ( &#126;&#126;&#126;&#126; ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button [[Image:Wikisigbutton.png]] located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! [[User:HagermanBot|HagermanBot]] 07:31, 2 April 2007 (UTC)<!-- HagermanBot Auto-Tilde -->

At the same time, reinforcements were gradually beginning to reach the island. As commander of the 109th Infantry Division, General Kuribayashi decided first of all to shift the 2nd Independent Mixed Brigade, consisting of about 5,000 men under Major General [[Kotau Osuga]], from Chichi to Iwo. With the fall of [[Saipan]], 2,700 men of the 145th Infantry Regiment, commanded by Colonel [[Masuo Ikeda]], were diverted to Iwo Jima. These reinforcements, who reached the island during July and August 1944, brought the strength of the garrison up to approximately 12,700 men. Next came 1,233 members of the 204th Naval Construction Battalion, who quickly set to work constructing concrete pillboxes and other fortifications.

:Shut the heck up Hagermanbot. I guess you're perfect and ''always'' remember eh? ;)--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 07:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

::Yeah, Hagermanbot's just a ''little'' too hasty. At least give me a minute to re-open the page to add my sig when I realize I left it off; fine to do it for me I guess, but I don't need a f**king robot telling me what to do because he beat me to it!! "He" and his "scolding" is more annoying than Hong or Uncle G. Guess I'll add a note on hagermanbot's little talkpage, wherever it is....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 17:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

:::That <small>([[WP:RPA|Personal attack removed]])</small> bot that just <small>([[WP:RPA|Personal attack removed]])</small> goes and <small>([[WP:RPA|Personal attack removed]])</small> leaves its <small>([[WP:RPA|Personal attack removed]])</small> stamp should be <small>([[WP:RPA|Personal attack removed]])</small><small>([[WP:RPA|Personal attack removed]])</small><small>([[WP:RPA|Personal attack removed]])</small>. Oh that felt good, on so many levels. Now. Back to being civil.--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 00:16, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

You can opt out of Hagermanbot. Just use the link in the heading, here, and go from there -- its simple and self-explanatory. Hagermanbot is well meant, but annoyingly officious. It really needs a reasonable time-delay, instead of jumping on unsigned posts the moment they appear. -- [[User:Lonewolf BC|Lonewolf BC]] 03:21, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

On [[10 August]] [[1944]], Rear Admiral [[Rinosuke Ichimaru]] reached Iwo Jima, shortly followed by 2,216 naval personnel, including naval aviators and ground crews. The admiral, a renowned Japanese aviator, had been crippled in an airplane crash in the mid-twenties and, ever since the outbreak of the war, had chafed under repeated rear echelon assignments.

===Artillery===

Next to arrive on Iwo Jima were artillery units and five anti-tank battalions. Even though numerous supply ships en route to Iwo Jima were sunk by American submarines and aircraft, substantial quantities of [[materiel]] did reach Iwo Jima during the summer and autumn of 1944. By the end of the year, General Kuribayashi had available to him 361 artillery pieces of 75&nbsp;mm or larger caliber, a dozen 320&nbsp;mm mortars, 65 medium (150&nbsp;mm) and light (81&nbsp;mm) mortars, 33 naval guns 80&nbsp;mm or larger, and 94 anti-aircraft guns 75&nbsp;mm or larger. In addition to this formidable array of large caliber guns, the Iwo Jima defenses could boast more than 200 20&nbsp;mm and 25&nbsp;mm antiaircraft guns and 69 37&nbsp;mm and 47&nbsp;mm antitank guns. The firepower of the artillery was further augmented with a variety of rockets varying from an eight-inch type that weighed 90&nbsp;kg and could travel 2&ndash;3&nbsp;km, to a giant 250&nbsp;kg projectile that had a range of more than 7&nbsp;km. Altogether, 70 rocket guns and their crews reached Iwo Jima.

In order to further strengthen the Iwo defenses, the 26th Tank Regiment, which had been stationed at [[Pusan]], [[Korea]] after extended service in [[Manchuria]], received orders for Iwo Jima. The officer commanding this regiment was Lieutenant Colonel Baron [[Takeichi Nishi]]. The regiment, consisting of 600 men and 28 tanks, sailed from Japan in mid-July on board the ''Nisshu Maru''. As the ship, sailing in a convoy, approached Chichi Jima on [[18 July]] [[1944]], it was torpedoed by an American submarine, [[USS Cobia (SS-245)|USS ''Cobia'']]. Even though only two members of the 26th Tank Regiment were killed, all of the regiment's 28 tanks went to the bottom of the sea. It would be December before these tanks could be replaced, 22 of which finally reached Iwo Jima.

Initially, Colonel Nishi had planned to employ his armor as a type of "roving fire brigade", to be committed at focal points of combat. The rugged terrain precluded such employment and in the end, under the colonel's watchful eyes, the tanks were deployed in static positions. They were either buried or their turrets were dismounted and so skillfully emplaced in the rocky ground that they were practically invisible from the air or the ground.

===Underground defenses===

For the remainder of 1944, the construction of fortifications on Iwo also went into high gear. The Japanese were quick to discover that the black volcanic ash that existed in abundance all over the island could be converted into concrete of superior quality when mixed with cement. Pillboxes near the beaches north of Mount Suribachi were constructed of reinforced concrete, many of them with walls four feet thick. At the same time, an elaborate system of caves, concrete [[Blockhouse|blockhouses]], and pillboxes was established. One of the results of American air attacks and naval bombardment in the early summer of 1944 had been to drive the Japanese so deep underground that eventually their defenses became virtually immune to air or naval bombardment.

While the Japanese on [[Peleliu Island]] in the Western Carolines, also awaiting American invasion, had turned the improvement of natural caves into an art, the defenders of Iwo developed it into a science. Because of the importance of the underground positions, 25% of the garrison was detailed to tunneling. Positions constructed underground ranged in size from small caves for a few men to several underground chambers capable of holding 300 or 400 men. In order to prevent personnel from becoming trapped in any one excavation, the subterranean installations were provided with multiple entrances and exits, as well as stairways and interconnecting passageways. Special attention had to be paid to providing adequate ventilation, since sulphur fumes were present in many of the underground installations. Fortunately for the Japanese, most of the volcanic stone on Iwo was so soft that it could be cut with hand tools.

General Kuribayashi established his command post in the northern part of the island, about 500&nbsp;m northeast of Kita village and south of Kitano Point. This installation, 20&nbsp;m underground, consisted of caves of varying sizes, connected by 150&nbsp;m of tunnels. Here the island commander had his own war room in one of three small concrete enclosed chambers; the two similar rooms were used by the staff. Farther south on Hill 382, the second highest elevation on the island, the Japanese constructed a radio and weather station. Nearby, on an elevation just southeast of the station, an enormously large blockhouse was constructed which served as the headquarters of Colonel [[Chosaku Kaidō]], who commanded all artillery on Iwo Jima. Other hills in the northern portion of the island were tunnelled out. All of these major excavations featured multiple entrances and exits and were virtually invulnerable to damage from artillery or aerial bombardment. Typical of the thoroughness employed in the construction of subterranean defenses was the main communications center south of Kita village, which was so spacious that it contained a chamber 50&nbsp;m long and 20&nbsp;m wide. This giant structure was similar in construction and thickness of walls and ceilings to General Kuribayashi's command post. A 150&nbsp;m tunnel 20&nbsp;m below the ground led into this vast subterranean chamber.

Perhaps the most ambitious construction project to get under way was the creation of an underground passageway designed to link all major defense installations on the island. As projected, this passageway was to have attained a total length of almost 27 km (17 miles). Had it been completed, it would have linked the formidable underground installations in the northern portion of Iwo Jima with the southern part of the island, where the northern slope of Mount Suribachi alone harbored several thousand yards of tunnels. By the time the Marines landed on Iwo Jima, more than 18 km (11 miles) of tunnels had been completed.

A supreme effort was required of the Japanese personnel engaged in the underground construction work. Aside from the heavy physical labor, the men were exposed to heat from 30&ndash;50 °C (90&ndash;130 °F), as well as sulphur fumes that forced them to wear gas masks. In numerous instances a work detail had to be relieved after only five minutes. Renewed American air attacks struck the island on [[8 December]] [[1944]] and became a daily occurrence until the actual invasion of the island. Subsequently, a large number of men had to be diverted to repairing the damaged airfields.

===Defense planning===

While Iwo Jima was being converted into a major fortress with all possible speed, General Kuribayashi formulated his final plans for the defense of the island. This plan, which constituted a radical departure from the defensive tactics used by the Japanese earlier in the war, provided for the following major points:

# In order to prevent disclosing their positions to the Americans, Japanese artillery was to remain silent during the expected prelanding bombardment. No fire would be directed against the American naval vessels.

# Upon landing on Iwo Jima, the Americans were not to encounter any opposition on the beaches.

# Once the Americans had advanced about 500&nbsp;m inland, they were to be taken under the concentrated fire of automatic weapons stationed in the vicinity of Motoyama airfield to the north, as well as automatic weapons and artillery emplaced both on the high ground to the north of the landing beaches and Mount Suribachi to the south.

# After inflicting maximum possible casualties and damage on the landing force, the artillery was to displace northward from the high ground near the Chidori airfield.

In this connection, Kuribayashi stressed once again that he planned to conduct an elastic defense designed to wear down the invasion force. Such prolonged resistance naturally required the defending force to stockpile rations and ammunition. To this end the island commander accumulated a food reserve to last for two and a half months, ever mindful of the fact that the trickle of supplies that was reaching Iwo Jima during the latter part of 1944 would cease altogether once the island was surrounded by a hostile naval force.

During the final months of preparing Iwo Jima for the defense, General Kuribayashi saw to it that the strenuous work of building fortifications did not interfere with the training of units. As an initial step towards obtaining more time for training, he ordered work on the northernmost airfield on the island halted. In an operations order issued in early December, the island commander set [[11 February]] [[1945]] as the target date for completion of defensive preparations and specified that personnel were to spend 70% of their time in training and 30% in construction work.

Despite intermittent harassment by American submarines and aircraft, additional personnel continued to arrive on Iwo until February 1945. By that time General Kuribayashi had under his command a force totaling between 21,000 and 23,000 men, including both Army and Navy units.

===Lines of defense===

[[Image:MtSuribachi2.jpg|right|thumb|300px| Mt. Suribachi was one of the focal points of Japanese defense of the island of Iwo Jima]]General Kuribayashi made several changes in his basic defense plan in the months preceding the American invasion of Iwo Jima. The final strategy, which became effective in January 1945, called for the creation of strong, mutually supporting positions which were to be defended to the death. Neither large scale counterattacks, withdrawals, nor [[banzai charge]]s were contemplated. The southern portion of Iwo in the proximity of Mount Suribachi was organized into a semi-independent defense sector. Fortifications included [[casemate]]d coast artillery and automatic weapons in mutually supporting pillboxes. The narrow isthmus to the north of Suribachi was to be defended by a small infantry force. On the other hand this entire area was exposed to the fire of artillery, rocket launchers, and mortars emplaced on Suribachi to the south and the high ground to the north.

A main line of defense, consisting of mutually supporting positions in depth, extended from the northwestern part of the island to the southeast, along a general line from the cliffs to the northwest, across Motoyama Airfield No. 2 to Minami village. From there it continued eastward to the shoreline just south of Tachiiwa Point. The entire line of defense was dotted with pillboxes, bunkers, and blockhouses. Colonel Nishi's immobilized tanks, carefully dug in and camouflaged, further reinforced this fortified area, whose strength was supplemented by the broken terrain. A second line of defense extended from a few hundred yards south of Kitano Point at the very northern tip of Iwo across the still uncompleted Airfield No. 3, to Motoyama village, and then to the area between Tachiiwa Point and the East Boat Basin. This second line contained fewer man-made fortifications, but the Japanese took maximum advantage of natural caves and other terrain features.

As an additional means of protecting the two completed airfields on Iwo from direct assault, the Japanese constructed a number of antitank ditches near the fields and mined all natural routes of approach. When, on 2 January, more than a dozen [[B-24 Liberator]] bombers raided Airfield No. 1 and inflicted heavy damage, Kuribayashi diverted more than 600 men, 11 trucks, and 2 bulldozers for immediate repairs, rendering the airfield operational within only 12 hours. Eventually, 2,000 men were assigned the job of filling the bomb craters, with as many as 50 men detailed to one crater. By the end of 1944 American B-24 bombers were over Iwo Jima almost every night, and U.S. Navy carriers and cruisers frequently sortied into the Ogasawaras. On [[8 December]] [[1944]], American aircraft dropped more than 800 tons of bombs on Iwo Jima, which did very little real damage to the island defenses. Even though frequent air raids interfered with the Japanese defensive preparations and robbed the garrison of badly-needed sleep, work was not materially slowed.

As early as [[5 January]] [[1945]], Admiral Ichimaru conducted a briefing of naval personnel at his command post in which he informed them of the destruction of the Japanese Fleet at the [[Battle of Leyte Gulf]], the loss of the Philippines, and the expectation that Iwo would shortly be invaded. Exactly one month later, Japanese radio operators on Iwo reported to the island commander that code signals of American aircraft had undergone an ominous change. On [[13 February]], a Japanese naval patrol plane spotted 170 American ships moving northwestward from Saipan. All Japanese troops in the Ogasawaras were alerted and occupied their battle positions. On Iwo Jima, preparations for the pending battle had been completed, and the defenders were ready.

==American planning==

The origins of the battle lie in the complex politics of the Pacific theater, in which operational control was divided between the [[South West Pacific Area (command)]] of General [[Douglas MacArthur]] and the [[Pacific Ocean Areas (command)]] led by Admiral [[Chester Nimitz]]. The potential for [[interservice rivalry]] between the Army and Navy created by this partition of responsibility was exacerbated by similar divisions within the [[Joint Chiefs of Staff]] (JCS) in Washington. By September 1944 the two services could not come to an agreement about the main direction of advance towards the Japanese home islands in the coming year. The Army was pressing for the chief effort to be an invasion of Formosa (Taiwan), in which MacArthur would be in overall command and in which it would predominate. The Navy however preferred the idea of an operation against Okinawa, which would be a mainly seaborne effort. Seeking to gain leverage and so break the impasse, on [[September 29]] Nimitz suggested to Admiral [[Ernest King]] that as a preliminary to the Okinawa offensive the island of Iwo Jima could be taken.<ref>Thomas B. Buell, ''Master of Seapower: A Biography of Ernest J. King'' (Annapolis, Md.: Naval Institute Press, 1980), 473.</ref> The tiny island lacked harbors and so was of no direct interest to the Navy, but for some time General [[Henry Harley Arnold]] of the [[United States Army Air Force|U.S. Army Air Force]] had been lobbying to take Iwo Jima. He argued that an airbase there would provide useful fighter escort cover for the B-29 Superfortresses of his [[XX Bomber Command]], then beginning its strategic bombing campaign against the Japanese home islands (the later role of Iwo Jima as a refueling station for B-29s played no part in the original decision-making process). Arnold's support in the JCS enabled the Navy to get Okinawa rather than Formosa approved as the main target on [[October 2]].<ref>JCS 713/18, "Future Operations in the Pacific," [[2 October]] [[1944]].</ref> At this time the Iwo Jima invasion was expected to be a brief prologue to the main campaign, with relatively light casualties; King assumed that Nimitz would be able to reuse three of the Marine Corps divisions assigned to Iwo Jima for the attack on Okinawa, which was originally scheduled to take place just forty days later.

On [[7 October]] [[1944]] Admiral Chester Nimitz and his staff issued a staff study for preliminary planning, which clearly listed the objectives of Operation Detachment. The overriding purpose of the operation was to maintain unremitting military pressure against Japan and to extend American control over the Western Pacific. Three tasks specifically envisioned in the study were the reduction of enemy naval and air strength and industrial facilities in the home islands; the destruction of Japanese naval and air strength in the Bonin Islands, and the capture, occupation, and subsequent defense of Iwo Jima, which was to be developed into an air base. Nimitz's directive declared that "long range bombers should be provided with fighter support at the earliest practicable time", and as such Iwo Jima was "admirably situated as a fighter base for supporting long range bombers."<ref>United States Pacific Fleet and Pacific Ocean Areas, "Operation Detachment (Iwo Jima)", [[7 October]] [[1944]], in Steven T. Ross, ''U.S. War Plans, 1939–1945'' (Malabar, Fla.: Krieger Publishing Co., 2000), 199–201.</ref>

On [[9 October]], General [[Holland Smith]] received the staff study, accompanied by a directive from Admiral Nimitz ordering the seizure of Iwo Jima. This directive designated specific commanders for the operation. Admiral [[Raymond A. Spruance]], Commander, Fifth Fleet, was placed in charge as Operation Commander, Task Force 50. Under Spruance, Vice Admiral [[Richmond Kelly Turner]], Commander, Amphibious Forces, Pacific, was to command the Joint Expeditionary Force, Task Force 51. Second in command of the Joint Expeditionary Force was Rear Admiral [[Harry W. Hill]]. General Holland Smith was designated Commanding General, Expeditionary Troops, Task Force 56.

It was not accidental that these men were selected to command an operation of such vital importance that it has since become known as "the most classical amphibious assault of recorded history." All of them had shown their mettle in previous engagements. One chronicler of the Iwo Jima operation put it in the following words:

:''"The team assigned to Iwo Jima was superb: the very men who had perfected the amphibious techniques from the [[Guadalcanal campaign|Battle of Guadalcanal]] to the [[Battle of Guam]]. Nearly every problem, it was believed, had been met and mastered along the way, from the jungles of Guadalcanal up through the Solomons, and across the Central Pacific from the bloody reefs of [[Battle of Tarawa]] to the mountains of the Marianas."''

[[Image:View of Iwo Landing Beach from top of Suribachi.jpg|thumb|left|150px|View of the invasion beach from the top of Mount Suribachi.]]

===Primary plan===

The U.S. V Amphibious Corps scheme of maneuver for the landings was relatively simple. The [[4th Marine Division|4th]] and [[U.S. 5th Marine Division|5th Marine Divisions]] were to land abreast on the eastern beaches, the 4th on the right and the 5th on the left. When released to VAC, the [[3rd Marine Division]], as Expeditionary Troops Reserve, was to land over the same beaches to take part in the attack or play a defensive role, whichever was called for. The plan called for a rapid exploitation of the beachhead with an advance in a northeasterly direction to capture the entire island. A regiment of the 5th Marine Division was designated to capture Mount Suribachi in the south. [http://www.nps.gov/archive/wapa/indepth/extContent/usmc/pcn-190-003131-00/images/fig13.jpg ''(map of the plan)'']

The detailed scheme of maneuver for the landings provided for the [[U.S. 28th Marine Regiment|28th Marine Regiment]] of the 5th Marine Division, commanded by [[Colonel Harry B. Liversedge]], to land on the extreme left of the corps on Green 1. On the right of the 28th Marines, the [[U.S. 27th Marine Regiment|27th Marine Regiment]], under Colonel Thomas A. Wornham, was to attack towards the west coast of the island, then wheel northeastward and seize the O-1 Line. Action by the 27th and 28th Marines was designed to drive the enemy from the commanding heights along the southern portion of Iwo, simultaneously securing the flanks and rear of VAC. As far as the 4th Marine Division was concerned, the [[U.S. 23rd Marine Regiment|23rd Marine Regiment]], commanded by Colonel Walter W. Wensinger, was to go ashore on Yellow 1 and 2 beaches, seize Motoyama Airfield No. 1, then turn to the northeast and seize that part of Motoyama Airfield No. 2 and the O-1 Line within its zone of action. After landing on Blue Beach 1, the [[U.S. 25th Marine Regiment|25th Marine Regiment]], under Colonel John R. Lanigan, was to assist in the capture of Airfield No. 1, the capture of Blue Beach 2, and the O-1 Line within its zone of action. The [[U.S. 24th Marine Regiment|24th Marine Regiment]], under Colonel Walter I. Jordan, was to be held in 4th Marine Division reserve during the initial landings. The U.S. 26th Marine Regiment, led by Colonel Chester B. Graham, was to be released from corps reserve on D-Day and prepared to support the 5th Marine Division.

Division artillery was to go ashore on order from the respective division commanders. The 4th Marine Division was to be supported by the [[U.S. 14th Marine Regiment|14th Marine Regiment]], commanded by Colonel Louis G. DeHaven; Colonel James D. Wailer's [[U.S. 13th Marine Regiment|13th Marine Regiment]] was to furnish similar support for the 5th Marine Division.

The operation was to be timed so that at H-Hour 68 [[Landing Vehicle Tracked]], comprising the first wave, were to hit the beach. These vehicles were to advance inland until they reached the first terrace beyond the high-water mark. The armored amphibians would use their 75 mm howitzers and machine guns to the utmost in an attempt to keep the enemy down, thus giving some measure of protection to succeeding waves of Marines who were most vulnerable to enemy fire at the time they disembarked from their LVTs. Though early versions of the VAC operations plan had called for tanks of the 4th and 5th Tank Battalions to be landed at H plus 30, subsequent studies of the beaches made it necessary to adopt a more flexible schedule. The possibility of congestion at the water's edge also contributed to this change in plans. In the end, the time for bringing the tanks ashore was left to the discretion of the regimental commanders.

== Sockpuppet ==

===Alternate plan===

Since there was a possibility of unfavorable surf conditions along the eastern beaches, VAC issued an alternative plan on [[8 January]] [[1945]], which provided for a landing on the western beaches. However, since predominant northerly or northwesterly winds caused hazardous swells almost continuously along the southwest side of the island, it appeared unlikely that this alternative plan would be put into effect.

Skookum1, a piece of advice. Obviously the 4. person is an experienced Wikipedian, but I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that it is a sockpuppet. Until you have that evidence, it's better to assume good faith, because premature charges can doom the prosecution even if they are correct. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]]) 15:51, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

==The Battle of Iwo Jima==

{{Expand|date=March 2007}}

:Other than one comment in the last few days 4.x.x. has backed down since I mentioned the checkuser report. I've been waiting for more before filing a report, but "if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck" applies here. It may not be who I and others think it is; but it's someone who's a regular Wikipedian who's "hiding" behind an IP address in order to make insults etc. "Assume good faith" is exactly what's not going on with the opponents of rationality in this fiasco. Well, it's not a fiasco because it's not over yet. But it sure is a nasty can of ideologically motivated worms, all writhing and posturing and puffery with their self-importance and righteousness. I left university to get away from sophomoric attitudes among people who think they're educated, and whose childish behaviour they hide behind procedural and bureaucratic manipulations; I may leave Wikipedia, ultimately, for the same reason.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 15:58, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

Ground fighting on the island took place over approximately 35 days, lasting from the landings of February 19th to a final Japanese charge the morning of March 26th, 1945.

::From what I've heard checkuser can go back about a month, for what that is worth. That gives you a little time to see if they continue the suspected sock behavior. Are editors allowed to use different names for different articles, so as to avoid someone being moved to stalk and undo every edit because of conflict in some contentious area? [[User:Edison|Edison]] 22:14, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

===Initial landings===

== Mark Britten ==

[[Image:USMC-M-IwoJima-cvr.jpg|300px|thumb|Marines landing on Iwo Jima]]

This was the entire content of the deleted article: <<'''Mark Britten''' is an American comedian whose stage name is "The Chinaman"..>> There's not much point in my restoring that one sentence. There's no block on reposting the article once it has some content. [[User:NawlinWiki|NawlinWiki]] 19:11, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

At 02:00 on [[February 19]], battleship guns signaled the commencement of D-Day. Soon 100 bombers attacked the island, followed by another volley from the naval guns. Although the bombs were consistent, it didn't deter the Japanese's defenses. At 08:59, one minute ahead of schedule, the first of an eventual 30,000 Marines of the [[US 3rd Marine Division|3rd]], [[US 4th Marine Division|4th]], and [[US 5th Marine Division|5th Marine Division]]s, under [[US V Amphibious Corps|V Amphibious Corps]], landed on the Japanese island of Iwo Jima and a battle for the island commenced.

:Couldn't have waited 5 minutes, could you, from the moment I created the article? Was it my fault for not putting a inuse on the article? Was my fault that I didn't warn other users possibly interested in expanding the article that it was tagged for sd? Oh, wait a minute, I DID warn other users possibly interested in expanding the article that it was tagged for sd. And [[Talk:Chinaman (disambiguation)#Mark Britten|I did IMMEDIATELY]]. Problem is, you were even faster in deleting the article. Now I'll have to report your behaviour, sorry. --[[User:Mafmafmaf|maf]] 19:35, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

:Just to clarify that the preceding post was directed at [[User:NawlinWiki]]. --[[User:Mafmafmaf|maf]] 19:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

::Update: [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#VERY SPEEDY deletion of Mark Britten =|Behaviour reported]]. --[[User:Mafmafmaf|maf]] 19:54, 4 April 2007 (UTC)

[[Mark Britten]] article has been restored/written using available web resources. I'll be emailing him personally to tell him that the first try at this article got deleted in less than two minutes; maybe that'll find its way into his act.....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 18:41, 6 April 2007 (UTC)

The Marines faced heavy fire from [[Mount Suribachi]] at the south of the island, and fought over inhospitable terrain: rough volcanic ash which allowed neither secure footing nor the digging of foxholes. Nevertheless, by that evening the mountain had been surrounded and 30,000 Marines had landed. About 40,000 more would follow.

==[[:Category:Vancouver Island]]==

===Taking Mt. Suribachi===

Just created this today after near cardiac when I discovered there was/never had been such a category. It will obviously need to be subdivided at some point, but when/if your wikitravels take you to the island feel free to check/add to the cat. I guess in a sense this would also be the first of the traditional/historic region categories so we can work towards things like the elimination of the silly Regional District classifications for where people hail from &etc. Anyway, later. --[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 07:53, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

By the morning of the fourth day of the battle, Mount Suribachi was effectively cut off from the rest of the island—above ground. By that point, the Marines knew that the Japanese defenders had an extensive network of below-ground defenses, and knew that in spite of its isolation above ground, the volcano was still connected to Japanese defenders via the tunnel network. They expected a fierce fight for the summit.

:Yeah, noticed that as lots of them are on my watchlist and I saw them all go by; it's the one definable region in BC, unless we define [[:Category:British Columbia Coast]] or [[:Category:Coast of British Columbia]] (''not'' [[West Coast of Canada]] which irks me as a title and usage but may be mandatory by Wiki rules; cf. my notes on [[Talk:West Coast of the United States]] early tonight about "West Coast" as ''our'' self-definer, not of either nation; that commonality between US and LA and Seattle etc. [[:Category:British Columbia Interior]] seems fairly well-defined, other than the Skeena maybe, and the Canyon and Pemberton; it implicitly includes the north, or maybe there should be [[:Category:Northern British Columbia]], from PG on up I guess, including of course the North Coast, though, so also overlapping, unless sep categories (and articles) for North Coast of British Columbia, South Coast of British Columbia, Central Coast of British Columbia were established; easier to just have of course [[:Category:Coast of British Columbia]] which both [[:Category:Lower Mainland]] (if it exists) and [[:Category:Vancouver Island]] can be subcats; my notion about the whole thing is the tripartite division of the place, and also my old idea about the "traditional" regions; i.e. vs. using the RDs as how to further subdivide other cats and such; but there's overlap between regions all over the place, and Yale and Pemberton which aren't quite one or the either; and the North Coast are more connected to the Island than the rest of the Coast, and so on. I think we can safely establish categories [[:Category:Cariboo]], [[:Category:Kootenay]], [[:Category:Chilcotin]], [[:Category:Fraser Canyon]], [[:Category:Okanagan]], [[:Category:Similkameen]], [[:Category:Shuswap]], [[:Category:Omineca]] etc (within the historical cats there could eventually be - hmm can't be [[:Category:New Caledonia]] so (prob [[:Category:New Caledonia (fur district)]] but I've never really noticed paranthetical titles in cats. So should these be [[be bold|made bold]] and let the chips fall where they may? Wiki rules would probably prefer that we identify what those are as officialized regions somehow; they're easily recognizable, even when they overlap or things don't fit right, too, though; but we also say "(the) Cariboo" as well as "(the) Cariboo Country" and so on through the list, eventually Stikine and Liard and Dease and Peace River Block (??) when there's enough articles up there to warrant; the Peace already but that cat name's going to be problematic, huh? Anyway, thoughts on seeing your Vanc Isl. cat; makes me think we can get away with all the others, and wondering on these other cat ideas; gona sign off; it's nearly 2.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 08:45, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Two four-man patrols were sent up the volcano to reconnoiter routes on the mountain's north face. Popular legend (embroidered by the press in the aftermath of the release of the now-famous photo "[[Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima]]") has it that the Marines fought tooth and nail all the way up to the summit. But although the riflemen were tensed for an ambush, none materialized. They made it to the summit and scrambled down again, reporting the lack of enemy contact to Colonel Chandler Johnson.

:Note overlap between e.g. [[:Category:Chilcotin]] and the already extant [[Tsilhqot'in]], which would seem to necessarily be a subcat of the otheres; not all native nation cats will coincide with these regions, but a lot will; or they could when necessary be in more than one region-cat, or only in the one that applies, e.g. [[:Category:Ktunaxa]] in [[:Category:Kootenay]] (provided that the Slocan is defined as being part of the Kootenay; I've never been clear on Nakusp and Revelstoke, Nakusp is maybe Kootenay as it's Arrow Lakes, but then so would be Galena Bay and Beaton and nearly Revelstoke; and again there's areas that don't fit like [[:Category:Big Bend of British Columbia]], though that's already in [[:Category:Columbia River]] in its own way; as should be [[:Category:Kootenay]] when it comes into being; the Okanagan cat is an issue because of the differential spelling, and it ''does'' span the border; it's one reason I specificaly chosen [[:Category:Syilx]] as the name for the [[Okanagan people]] cat, because of course in teh US it's got two o's.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 08:53, 7 April 2007 (UTC) Y'see to me there would seem to be an obvious parent cat of some kind of the American Okanogan and the BC Okanagan; I dodged the bullet with the FN/Native American cat but harder to do as a purely geographic region (in a non-national sense, like that problem with the [[Georgia-Puget Depression]] wherever that winds up at now.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 09:16, 7 April 2007 (UTC) [[Georgia Strait-Puget Sound Depression]], [[Georgia Strait-Puget Sound Basin]]?? - ''Anything'' but [[Whulge]] or [[Salish Sea]]. Fine if there were a common regional name spanning languages, but then it probably woudl hvae become part of regional english if that were the case, no? Whatever; g'nite for the second time, it's now 2:24am. One last PS I'll be reworking my Lillooet article, which needs work as I cribbed it from what was already there, but it's never been brought up to par and has errors; writing this tor emind myself, similarly with others in htat area, including those that need creation; I should really be spending my time writing/publishing a book on the area....but it's aresources thing, time/money spent while writing. Not that I'm making any money here, y'see... and get more grief than necessary sometimes ;-) [[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 09:19, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

Johnson then called for a platoon of Marines to climb Suribachi. With them, he sent a small American flag to fly if they reached the summit. Again, Marines began the ascent, expecting to be ambushed at any moment. And again, the Marines reached the top of Suribachi without incident. Using a length of pipe they found among the wreckage atop the mountain, the Marines hoisted the U.S. flag over Mount Suribachi, the first foreign flag to fly on Japanese soil in centuries.

[[:Category:Geographic regions of British Columbia]] has [[Aspen parkland]] in it, which isn't the purpose of the cat but I can see someone seeing it there; maybe a [[:Category:Biogeographic zones of British Columbia]], provided there's a [[Biogeographic zones of British Columbia]] or a similarly-titled List article.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 09:13, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

As the flag went up, [[Secretary of the Navy]] [[James Forrestal]] had just landed on the beach at the foot of Mt. Suribachi. He decided that he wanted the flag as a souvenir. Popular legend has it that Colonel Johnson wanted the flag for himself; in fact, he believed that the flag belonged to the 2nd Battalion, 28th Marines, who had captured that section of the island. He sent Sergeant Mike Strank (who was photographed in the Flag Raising picture) to scrounge up a second flag, and sent that one up the volcano to replace the first. As the first flag came down, the second went up, and it was then that [[Associated Press]] photographer [[Joe Rosenthal]] took the famous photograph "[[Raising the Flag on Iwo Jima]]" of the replacement flag being planted on the mountain's summit.

:Thanks. We've got a good redlinked 'to-do' list of possible future cats above this now, which I may cc to my to-do page, actually. I have been frequenting the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_April_5 Categories for Discussion boards] lately, and chiming in occasionally-- since the streets and squares issue arose, and has since been overturned entirely. Anyway, it seems category deletion impulses are usually triggered by "over-categorization" and "non-notable" cats that don't specifically have articles associated with the cat. titles. In the case of most BC regions, we should be ok (Van Isle being the easy 'no brainer'), although there could be sourcing issues again re: the vaguely defined regions. But certainly in the cases of [[:Category:Kootenay]] and [[:Category:Okanagan]], which are better defined, creation shouldn't be controversial. I think fairly strong community support could be obtained from the project members too, if we were to discuss this on the WPBC proj page. Of course, those subcats would/could (as you alluded to) be based on those obvious larger region articles which you compiled a while back, which would have cats ([[:Category:Lower Mainland]], [[:Category:British Columbia Interior]] (purely a parent, really)..., Northern... &etc.). The categorization would have to follow existing articles, but would provide a more sensible and realistic flow of organization for articles relating to any BC subject. This way, we actually ''could'' realize and incorporate the different levels of self-identity into the cats (ie: "I'm from the [[Vancouver Island|Island]]" or "I'm from up in the [[Shuswap country|Shuswap]]"), which we ''know'' exist at the various levels of regions. Same with the biogeographic zones under the geo cat.. Precedents elsewhere would be useful, I'll keep perusing the boards and other cats for some guidelines, so as to try and pre-empt deletionists, although I'm sure a few will surface in all this. Still some inevitable cat. overlaps with peoples/towns, but hey, things are different here, as we know ;). Later man.--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 09:55, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

===After Mt. Suribachi===

::OK just found [[:Category:Oregon Coast]] which bodes well for an overarching [[:Category:Coast of British Columbia]] here, esp considering the [[British Columbia Coast]] article, of your creation.--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 10:04, 7 April 2007 (UTC). Just created it, running on fumes...--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 10:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC). Just started adding to coast cat. Need a fresh pair of eyes on it though... for example, put the whole category [[:Category:Bays of British Columbia]] as a subcat of coast, which was probably wrong, considering [[Kootenay Bay]] &etc. but then all the bays were on the coast... a few conundrums, correct/organize as you see fit. ZzzZzz.--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 10:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[[Image:Ronson flame tank Iwo Jima.jpg|thumb|300px|Several [[M4A3 Sherman|M4A3 Sherman tanks]] equipped with flamethrowers were used to clear Japanese bunkers]]

:::Bays of British Columbia? Yikes. Now is that geographic bays, or towns named "bay"???? And what about [[:Category:Inlets of British Columbia]] and whatever you'd put sounds in or call; and don't forget that a lot of things that are Sounds and even Straits are actually also part of [[:Category:Fjords]], according to strict definitions of fjords....and BC has a lot of ''freshwater'' fjords (Harrison, Pitt, seton-Anderson, chilko, Kootenay, dozens of major ones more...). freshwater bays and marine bays might be a useful distinction (sorry given up with my shift key....). anyway, just got in, haven't looked at you-know-where yet and need to eat and, er, tune up. I'll send ya a letter about other stuff. (PS bornmann watch in effect with the trial opening and today's press coverage, haven't noticed anything yet but we should all stay tuned....the case is gonna be hard stuff to right; alreaDy the articles aren't up to date because of complexity; like so many - hey, you don't have any old copy on the [[Salmon War]] of 1996, do you? Have to be bothsides POV of course, so alaskan/washington papers which I've never read their side of the crisis in would be interesting research.....like so much else, but there's only so much time in this world, and so much else to do....sigh.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 07:35, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Despite the loss of [[Mt. Suribachi]], the Japanese still held a strong position. Kuribayashi still had the equivalent of eight infantry battalions, a tank regiment, two artillery and three heavy mortar battalions, plus the 5,000 gunners and naval infantry. The struggle to take the Motoyama Plateau, including "Turkey Knob" was to take the better part of three weeks. The Japanese actually had the Marines outgunned in this area, and the extensive tunnels allowed the Japanese to reappear in areas thought "safe". It was with weapons like the 8 Sherman M4A3 medium tanks equipped with the Navy Mark I flame thrower ("Ronson" or [[Flame tank|Zippo Tanks]]) that the Marines would force the Japanese to leave their caves.

::::Nada for [[Salmon War]] material, unfortunately. Seems the only 'sounds'/inlets cat is in fact [[:Category:Fjords of British Columbia]], which I moved to coast. WIll probably move it back to general [[:Category:Geography of British Columbia]], and tag some of the individual fjords/inlets etc with 'Coast' or 'Interior' cats as applicable. Lots of close category calls today in your old neck of the woods, from [[Port Douglas, British Columbia|Port Douglas]] up to Pemberton country and beyond, tagged ''some'' with both coast and int cats, same with a few rivers, mountain ranges and trails which straddle. 'Bays' category contained both geographic and settlement put it back to general 'geo of bc'. A few more then ZzzZzz.--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 09:25, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Close air support was initially provided by fighters from escort carriers off the coast. This shifted over to the 15th Fighter Group (flying [[P-51 Mustang]]s) after they arrived on the island on D+15. Similarly, illumination rounds (flares) which were used to light up the battlefield at night were initially provided by ships, shifting over later to landing force artillery. [[Code_talker|Navajo code talkers]] were a key part of the American ground communications, along with [[walkie-talkies]] and SCR-610 backpack radio sets.

===FinalEnglish daysNames offor theChinese Battle=People==

Uncle G reverted your and Falsedef's edits AGAIN. Is there any way that his POV agenda can be stopped? It's pretty obvious that the article won't be deleted, so there needs to some way to get him to stop reverting everything that others write that conflicts with his narrow-minded view.[[User:Zeus1234|Zeus1234]] 15:50, 7 April 2007 (UTC)

[[Image:Iwo Jima beach.jpg|thumbnail|250px|"Unloading on the beach of Iwo Jima"]] With the landing area secure, more troops and heavy equipment came ashore and the invasion proceeded north to capture the airfields and the remainder of the island. Most Japanese soldiers fought to the death. On the night of 25 March, a 300-man Japanese force launched a final counterattack in the vicinity of Airfield Number 2. Army pilots, [[Seabees]] and Marines of the [[5th Pioneer Battalion]] and 28th Marines fought the Japanese force until morning but suffered heavy casualties&mdash;more than 100 killed and another 200 American wounded. Of all the Japanese that fought, 20,703 were killed and 216 were captured.[http://hqinet001.hqmc.usmc.mil/hd/Historical/This_Month_History/03_March.htm] The island was officially declared "secure" the following day.

What a pleasant surprise! The article was deleted after all. Looks like my note above was premature.[[User:Zeus1234|Zeus1234]] 03:29, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

==Aftermath==

[[Image:Dinah Might at Iwo Jima.jpg|right|thumb|200px|''Dinah Might'' surrounded by Marines and Seabees after emergency landing on Iwo Jima]]

[[Image:MemorialonMtSuribachi.jpg|right|thumb|200px|Memorial on the top of Mt. Suribachi]]

== maps ==

:''"Among the men who fought on Iwo Jima, uncommon valor was a common virtue"''—Admiral [[Chester W. Nimitz]]

yeah, hey, if you've got maps for stuff around bellingham bay (Portage Island, Lummi Peninsula, etc.) i'd be glad to deal with them if you don't have time. i've got plenty of time to work on that stuff right now. Cheers! [[User:Murderbike|Murderbike]] 04:06, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Of the over 22,000 Japanese soldiers, 20,703 died, <!-- the battle box has different numbers --> and 216 were captured. The Allied forces suffered 25,281 casualties, with 5,598 deaths. This was the only large engagement of WWII in which the Allied forces suffered more casualties (dead plus injured) than their Japanese opponents.

==Hereby...==

After Iwo Jima was declared secured, the Marines estimated there were no more than three hundred Japanese left alive in the island's warren of caves and tunnels. In fact, there were close to three thousand. The Japanese [[bushido]] code of honor, coupled with effective propaganda which portrayed American G.I.'s as ruthless animals, prevented surrender for many Japanese soldiers. Those who could not bring themselves to commit suicide hid in the caves during the day and came out at night to prowl for provisions. Many did eventually surrender, and were surprised that the Americans often received them with compassion, offering water, cigarettes, or coffee.<ref>John Toland, ''The Rising Sun: The Decline and Fall of the Japanese Empire 1936-1945'', Random House, 1970, p. 731</ref> The last of these stragglers, two of Lieutenant Toshihiko Ohno's men, Yamakage and Matsudo, lasted six years, surrendering in 1951.<ref>John Toland, ''ibid'', p. 737</ref>

{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"

|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[Image:Barnstar.png|100px]]

|rowspan="2" |

|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''

|-

|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | [[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] is hereby awarded the Original Barnstar for his extensive work throughout [[British Columbia]] related articles. Adding the new cats over the past few days has enabled me to see ''just how'' extensive that work has been. It is clearly an invaluable contribution taht extends to nearly all facets of the province. Also, for standing your ground, albeit colourfully, against such accusations of "hysterics" and acting like a "chicken with your head cut off", and being told to go get a blog, &etc. amidst controversies. The fact that you continue to contribute in the ways described above trumps any of these.--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 23:39, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

|}

Wow. Thanks. I now have two - one for CanCon, of all things, given I'm virtually a BC separatist, and a Bridge River-Lillooet separatist on top of that ;-) Should I put these on my userpage or what? Been thinking of overhauling it and archiving what's there; esp. since my Grand Recuse is about to start....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 23:49, 8 April 2007 (UTC)

Over a quarter of the [[Medal of Honor|Medals of Honor]] awarded to Marines in World War II were given for conduct in the invasion of Iwo Jima. The Marines, both active duty and reservists, were commended with 22 Medals of Honor. An additional five Medals of Honor were bestowed upon five Navy servicemen and reservists. This total of 27 is the most ever given in a single battle to date.

==Bornmann==

Given this bloody sacrifice, the necessity and long-term significance of the island's capture to the outcome of the war was a contentious issue from the beginning, and remains disputed. As early as April 1945 retired Chief of Naval Operations William V. Pratt asked in ''[[Newsweek]]'' magazine about the ''"expenditure of manpower to acquire a small, God-forsaken island, useless to the Army as a staging base and useless to the Navy as a fleet base ... [one] wonders if the same sort of airbase could not have been reached by acquiring other strategic localities at lower cost."''<ref>William V. Pratt, "What Makes Iwo Jima Worth the Price", ''Newsweek'', [[2 April]] [[1945]], 36.</ref> The Japanese on Iwo Jima had radar with which they notified their comrades at home of incoming B-29s flying from the Marianas. Fighter aircraft based on Iwo Jima sometimes attacked these planes, which were especially vulnerable on their way to Japan because they were heavily laden with bombs and fuel. The island was also used as an air-sea rescue base after its seizure. However, the traditional justification for Iwo Jima's strategic importance to the United States' war effort has been that it provided a landing and refueling site for American bombers on missions to and from Japan. As early as [[March 4]], [[1945]], while fighting was still taking place, the B-29 bomber ''Dinah Might'' of the [[USAAF]] [[9th Bomb Group]] reported it was low on fuel near the island and requested an emergency landing. Despite enemy fire, the airplane landed on the Allied-controlled section of the island, without incident, and was serviced, refueled and departed. In all, 2,251 B-29 Superfortresses landed on Iwo Jima during the war.

Congrats on that barnstar. I'm sure it is well-deserved. I doubt that anyone has added more BC content than you. Which is partly what brought me here. I was wondering if you saw the article about Bornmann in the Sun yesterday? "Liberals can thank 'Spiderman for exposure" from the Saturday paper, B1. I tought that you might be interested in adding something to our article. I was also wondering if you had any plans on cleaning up Hollywood North or runaway production which was in a pretty sorry state the last time that I saw it. --[[User:JGGardiner|JGGardiner]] 01:10, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

:Well, I've been in a certain other bloodbath lately; there's only so much I can stomach at times ;-) and I'm starting to feel like sisyphus with articles like that, although I don't think we'll see much in the way or targeted you-know-what in future; I didn't get a chance to see the article, which I guess was in the second section because I looked through yesterday's front page tonight looking for it; but remember to be fair it's not only Erik's article that needs work, Basi and even Justice Bennett (or Barrett? whichever) all need articles, as with the defendants and more on Brian Kieran; the tie-in to Marissen and all that; we can expect your standard rant-edit from potty-mouthed and/or politically upset British columbians like on other pages, but while I think POV watch is worthwhile I don't think we're going to see any more savage edit wars. Now, as for myself cribbing the news into the article, it's partly awkward because I was such a main combatant and I'm also as you know rather prolix :-| in the extreme; what I've done with other topics is to make a list of points needed to be addressed and ask someone else to stich them together in simple language ;-) The other side of my writing situation is that I'm going to be un-webbing in about a month and have a host of articles I need to amend, and only a few weeks to go (adventures await...), and tidying up the BC Wikiproject. I meant to save that article, and the one before it, but I was hoping the expansion-momentum might come from somewhere else; I'm good at seeing what's missing, or what needs to be put in context; and I'd be wary of my POV throughout if I was original-writing it.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 05:23, 9 April 2007 (UTC)

None of these calculations played much if any of a role in the original decision to invade, however, which was almost entirely based on the Army Air Force's belief that the island would be a useful base for long-range fighter escorts. For a number of technical reasons these escorts proved both impractical and unnecessary, and only ten such missions were ever flown from Iwo Jima.<ref>Assistant Chief of Air Staff, "Iwo, B-29 Haven and Fighter Springboard", ''Impact'', September-October 1945, 69–71</ref>. Other justifications are also debatable. Although some Japanese interceptors were based on Iwo Jima, their impact on the American bombing effort was marginal; in the three months before the invasion only 11 B-29s were lost as a result <ref>Wesley Frank Craven and James Lea Cate, ''The Army Air Forces in World War II, vol. 5, The Pacific: Matterhorn to Nagasaki, June 1944 to August 1945'' (Chicago: University of Chicago Press, 1953), 5:581–82</ref>. The Superfortresses found it unnecessary to make any major detour around the island.<ref>Craven and Cate, ''Army Air Forces in World War II'', 5:559.</ref> The capture of Iwo Jima did not affect the Japanese early-warning radar system, which continued to receive information on incoming B-29s from the island of [[Rota (island)|Rota]] (which was never attacked).<ref>Joint War Planning Committee 306/1, "Plan for the Seizure of Rota Island," [[25 January]] [[1945]].</ref> Some downed B-29 crewmen were saved by air-sea rescue aircraft and vessels operating from the island, but Iwo Jima was only one of many islands that could have been used for such a purpose. As for the importance of the island as a landing and refueling site for bombers, USMC Captain Robert Burrell of the [[United States Naval Academy|US Naval Academy]] has suggested that only a small proportion of the 2,251 landings were for genuine emergencies, the great majority being for minor technical checkups, training, or refueling. According to Burrell, ''"this justification became prominent only after the Marines seized the island and incurred high casualties. The tragic cost of Operation Detachment pressured veterans, journalists, and commanders to fixate on the most visible rationalization for the battle. The sight of the enormous, costly, and technologically sophisticated B-29 landing on the island's small airfield most clearly linked Iwo Jima to the strategic bombing campaign. As the myths about the flag raisings on Mount Suribachi reached legendary proportions, so did the emergency landing theory in order to justify the need to raise that flag."''<ref>Robert S. Burrell, "Breaking the Cycle of Iwo Jima Mythology: A Strategic Study of Operation Detachment". ''The Journal of Military History'' 68.4 (2004) 1143–1186.</ref>

==Thanks for ideas and encouragement==

Hi Skookum, yes, I enjoyed working on the Barnard Express article and agree with you that it is high importance. Yesterday I added three fair-use images from BC Archives and I hope they stay as I believe the use is more than fair, after all wikipedia is a nonprofit research tool same as their site is. I wonder why BC Archives holds the rights to all those online pictures when Canada Archives freely admits when there is no copyright, and often on the very same picture? I don’t get it. But if those three pictures are allowed there are hundreds of others in the online BC Archives that could be used in a project regarding BC sternwheelers.

I’ve noticed that writing articles on wikipedia seems to be like trying empty the ocean with a bucket, you write one and a dozen more need to be created to link to it and so on… ad infinitum. This certainly seems to be the case with BC history: I was surprised to find nothing on Cataline or Simon Gunanoot for example.

Anyway, as to the ownership of the BC Express boats, only the two namesakes belonged to the company. Of the other ten, two, the Operator and Conveyor belonged to Foley Welch and Stewart who were the construction contractors for the Grand Trunk Pacific. Of the eight left, three, the Chilco, Chilcotin and Fort Fraser belonged to the Fort George Lumber and Navigation Company, who also held lots in the South Fort George townsite and used these steamers to bring prospective buyers to the area as well as contracting them to the railroad, survey companies ect… The Robert Hammond had a similar purpose and was owned by the rival townsite, Central Fort George on the Nechako River, which being less navigable didn’t have the service of the BC Express boats, which were too big, or the service of the Fort George Lumber boats which were their competition. An interesting aside: the Mayor of Kamloops and a party of other men in 1913 managed to get the government mail contract from the BC Express Company and were going to use the Robert Hammond as a mail steamer, but the plan fell through as they weren’t prepared for the challenge, nor was the boat, which was not powerful enough to keep the same twice a week delivery schedule from Soda Creek to Fort George like the BC Express boats could. Okay, where was I? That leaves four. The Quesnel was built by a merchant in Quesnel, perhaps in the hopes that he could contract/charter it out while saving money on his own shipping costs. The Charlotte was built earlier than all of these in 1896, just for the Soda Creek to Quesnel run, I would assume to serve the merchant and pioneer needs of the area. She was built by Senator James Reid of Quesnel and named after his wife, under the company he organized as North British Columbia Navigation… and that was as much as I ever noticed before. But, here’s the kicker, one of the three partners in the NBCN was Captain John Irving, another big name, and the other was Tingley, himself, who was running the BC Express Company at that time and had been for eight years. So, while not a BC Express boat the Charlotte had strong associations. The last two are the Enterprise and the Victoria and here’s where GB Wright comes into play, along with Thomas Wright, {brother?} they were the owners and operators of these two boats. The Enterprise was built first, in 1863, and was used between Soda Creek and Quesnel until 1871. But, here’s an amazing story, in 1871, the Wrights took her all the way up to Fort George, considered impossible before then because of the Cottonwood and Fort George Canyons, but they didn’t stop there and continued on up the Nechako to the Stuart River finally ending up at Takla Landing. Supposedly the Wrights took her there because of the Omineca Gold Rush, but it doesn’t seem as if she did any work there and was also abandoned there. By then the Wrights had built the Victoria which ran the Soda Creek Quesnel route from 1869 to 1886. And that’s all of them.

Categorizing them by ownership like this ie: railroad, private and Hudson’s Bay Co, {oddly enough we had no Bay steamers here}, seems to make more sense than going in chronological order as I did in [[Steamboats of the Upper Fraser River in British Columbia]]. I think I’ll go back and play with that, as it looks rather amateurish right now and I was wondering how to divide it into sections while maintaining a timeline. The same could be done for pages for the other areas you mentioned. These articles would be much bigger than the Upper Fraser or Skeena River, as those each only had a dozen or so sternwheelers during a relatively short era. In the south, there were probably 200 sternwheelers on the various lakes and rivers, over a much longer time span. The Beaver in 1836 to the Moyie retiring in 1957. Also many of which were famous: Moyie, Sicamous, Kokanee, Nasookin, Slocan ect…ect… and will need their own articles. Not to mention articles that would need to be made for some of the captains, builders and owners. One thing would make starting a little simpler, I was thinking of categorizing the provincial sections much as Art Downs did on his two volumes of Paddlewheels on the Frontier. Kamloops and Shuswap. Okanagan Valley. Arrow and Kootenay Lakes. Columbia and Kootenay Rivers. Lower Fraser. Upper Fraser, {which I noticed he called Cariboo and Central}. Skeena and Stikine River. He also touched on the Yukon, but that is another project in itself.

They could be called Steamboats of the {region in question} in British Columbia, giving everything some consistency. I’ve often thought that Sternwheelers of the… would be a better caption, but that takes out sidewheelers and doesn’t allow for anything that isn’t a paddlewheeler.

Anyway, last thing, your comment on monopoly route rights is interesting, because I think that did apply in some regions, especially when there was too much rivalry. Paddlewheelers owned by the HBC and private interests on the Skeena often raced and one, the Hazelton piloted by John Bonser, who later piloted our Chilco and Fort Fraser, rammed the other one, the HBC’s Mount Royal, during a race, and the other captain left his pilothouse to go get a gun. I believe the government had to step in and gave the route to one or the other before the situation got out of hand.

Our paddlewheelers also had rivalry, townsite versus townsite for one thing and BC Express versus GTP for another. When Charles Millar took over the BC Express Company he also showed some interest in Fort George and was planning a third townsite there and made arrangements to buy the Indian Reserve there. The railway was horrified, as that was their plan, they just hadn’t done much about it yet, and they had to give Millar part of the townsite that would eventually become the actual Prince George. It is highly inferred in the book A Thousand Blunders: History of the GTP in Northern British Columbia that the railway didn’t much like Millar or his company after that and deliberately built low level bridges across the Fraser between Fort George and Tete Jaune, to stop river navigation when they had earlier promised the BC Express Company that these bridges would have lift spans. Certainly Captain Bucey didn’t appreciate these new plans and when he was trying to take the BC Express up to Tete Jaune and found the way blocked, he threatened the railway workers with a shotgun.

More of this GTP vs BC Express rivalry was illustrated when the BX and the Conveyor raced in the summer of 1914 from Soda Creek to Quesnel. Oddly enough the deal was that the BX still had to deliver the mail, but the Conveyor didn’t have to stop at all. Nevertheless Captain Browne pulled ahead of Captain Shannon at some key point and then Shannon rammed the BX with the Conveyor. The BX wasn’t badly damaged. Needless to say, it was the BX that was declared the winner when they got to Quesnel.

Anyway, holy cow, I didn’t mean to run on for so long. I will keep my page updated with ideas for this province-wide steamboat articles project and will keep looking for stuff on Wright. I know he was a pioneer road builder as well as a sternwheeler captain.[[User:CindyBo|CindyBo]] 00:14, 10 April 2007 (UTC)

==May I remove tag from improved article?==

Me ''again''. I was just wondering if it was okay for me to remove the old needs improvement tag from [[Steamboats of the Upper Fraser River in British Columbia]]? And I don't know how that rating system goes, but it might be better than "start" now. And I finished a new companion page [[Steamboats of the Skeena River]] I decided the..."in British Columbia" is a bit of overkill. Would it be rated similarily?[[User:CindyBo|CindyBo]] 06:17, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

:Yeah, that's fine, I should have done so; normally those things disappear by random/browser visitors who patrol pages that have the templates, but if someone's done enough work to warrant taking them down, go for it even if you did the work yourself; I'm about to pull the one off [[Yakima War]] once I find out about it a bit more so can figure out if it's still POV or not (it really was, i.e. from the cavalry's point of view/language). There's a paper or book somewhere on the raftsmen of the Omineca/Stuart and Fraser Rivers, some content of which might be suitable here as still be freight shipping/travel. The Skeena's a great place to start another article of this kind; I just returned to the Burnaby Public Library a "Lost Bonanzas of British Columbia" thing which had something on a certain boat/strongbox re Kitselas Canyon; such books typically also have bits that can go in first Nations articles, in this case [[Kitselas]] (the people, as I remember the context - they charged a toll to transit their waters and were also known for being, um, a little on the tough side; can't remember how Basque puts it, has to do with the chapter on the ''Mount Royal''; the chapter on [[Brother XII]] in there is the most detailed I've seen...but he also has other steamship stories in there too...that's where I made [[SS Pacific]] from, and was going to do the ''[[SS Sophie]]'', the infamous/tragic sinking in the Lynn Canal that's the largest in coastal history). Please note re [[List of ships in British Columbia]] that I've linked the Upper Fraser article to the shipnames there; more or less suitable esp. because of the way you've written the article. I think you'll find that the boats on the Skeena, Stikine, Lower Fraser, Okanagan/Kootenay Lakes/Columbia River/Arrow Lakes weren't on just the one river, more like several; Skeena and Stikine boats had done duty on the Fraser, probably the Columbia, probably Puget Sound, definitely Inside Passage, possibly the Sacramento River also. So I'm not sure what you've done for the Upper Fraser is gonna work anywhere else; maybe the Middle Fraser (Boston Bar-Lytton) as I don't think anything there ever saw service anywhere else, other than those on the Upper Fraser and (maybe) Shuswap Lake/Kamloops Lake and those on the little lakes of the [[Lakes Route]] (not gonna be a list, there's only 3-4 maybe 5 on each lake...). What I'm getting at is individual ship articles is a better idea as a focus for particular-ship content, and the general article should be about the steamboats as a business/era; and say on [[Steamboats on the Skeena River]] there's going to be vessels that, as just alluded to, were definitely on the Fraser, probably ran to Skagway; that's why the [[List of ships in British Columbia]] was partly built, so that all those that served on certain routes, e.g. the Inside Passage, Kootenay Lake, the Lower Fraser/Harrison Lake, can be listed in context by ___location, and this is so those that were in more than ___location can be indicated easily. BTW have you joined the BC wikiproject. You don't need an invitation but if you'd like one I'll plop one on your userpage :-)[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 07:03, 11 April 2007 (UTC)

Finally got time to reply to this, we keep crossing paths all over the place anyway. I see your point about seperate ship articles, even when there is only a tenuous connection to a gold rush and even when they run on only one river and have no past or future like most of the ones in the [[Steamboats of the Skeena River]] and [[Steamboats of the Upper Fraser River in British Columbia]].

The [[United States Navy]] has commissioned several ships of the name [[USS Iwo Jima|USS ''Iwo Jima'']].

Regardless of that, though, seperate ship articles makes even more sense because there are other links that will eventually be made to these boats, Collins Telegraph for the early boats on the Skeena page for example, not to mention the pages of the individual captains and all those great stories about the races, trips to Takla ect.. that could be main articles. Anyway, I rambled on about this somewhere else too, but I think the consesus then is: seperate articles for most, if not all, of the boats. Oh, and yes I'd like to join the BC wikiproject. I am a wikipedian in British Columbia and I think I had that mixed up with the project. I've gone to that page, but I'm still try to get a hang of all those tags and templates that are all over the place for everything, but I think I'm starting to get a slightly better idea of how things work around here. I'm sure we'll be talking again soon.[[User:CindyBo|CindyBo]] 03:58, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

The [[USMC War Memorial]] outside [[Washington, D.C.]] memorializes all U.S. Marines with a statue of the famous picture.

==ReunionJust of honorfound..==

[[Great Bear Rainforest]]. Have tagged it. Not a fan of the name of course, pure invention in the vein of Salish Sea IMO, but thought you'd want to know of its existence (I didn't see any evidence of your passing through there). Later.[[User:Keefer4|Keefer]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 03:20, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

On [[February 19]], [[1985]], an event called the "Reunion of Honor" was held. It was on this day in [[1945]] when U.S. forces invaded [[Iwo Jima]]. The ex-soldiers of both sides who fought in the battle of [[Iwo Jima]], attended the event. The place was the invasion beach where U.S. forces landed. A monument on which writings were engraved by both sides was built at the center of the meeting place. Japanese attended at the mountain side, where the Japanese writing was carved, and Americans attended at the shore side, where the English writing was carved. After unveiling, and offering of flowers were made, the representatives of both countries approached the monument; upon meeting, they shook hands. The old soldiers embraced each other and cried. The combined Japan-U.S. memorial service of the 50th anniversary of the battle was held in front of this monument on March, 1995. Further memorial services have been held on later anniversaries.

:Just read through it and what is there is wildly inaccurate in a few spots... wonder how this got in under our radar...--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 03:22, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

::Tawdry neologism yes, but they did a better marketing job. What a name encompassing the region in question might be, but I do submit there's been an effort to equate it to Central Coast in the same way there's the effort to equate Cascadia with the Pacific Northwest (or even, more pointedly, a preferred term for); likewise the Salish Sea but with a much less convincing sell-job and also the place is too much in people's faces, unlike "the Great Bear" whichis the size of New Brunswick or whatever; can't even come up with a single name for it, too, because it spans so many different bits of island and different reaches of water. Princess Royal is the mainstay of it, and the most important part (and amazingly rugged for something with low relief...) but despite the nice ring it's only that island, and it's very un-p.c. I have a similar bitch with South Chilcotin, which sadly has caught on despite being incorrect and incorrectly derived; yes part of the Chilcotin Ranges ''but not part of the Chilcotin''; it's gotten so bad adjoining areas to the south and east, even Lillooet, have been dubbed as being in the Chilcotin. "City geographers" I call it - "here, let's give this area a name as it doesn't have one". As someone I know up in Lillooet says about this kind of thing, re bivouac.com giving things names without any local context, the landscape "doesn't need names; it's what it is". There's other examples, but Salish Sea strikes me in the soppy category; so does Great Bear Rainforest, but that one we're stuck with now.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 05:53, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

==See also==

::::i.e. sloppy geography comes up; the article said it was in "southwestern british columbia"...it's typical of the fuzzy writing that's around in envirobumpf....I won't go into other examples but the point is the drawing of lines and pasting names on the map from a distance has always been a mistake-making exercise; and this area's designated outline is a political boundary like any other when you stop to think about it; just not that or the ruling politick, but they've gotten the ruling politick to acknowledge the term, which is ''something'' I guess.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 06:07, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

{{portal|United States Marine Corps|USMC logo.svg}}

:::::Some swordfighting to come over the term's origins. I expect a lot of the contributors who created that article will be none too happy with it being labelled as a recently created marketing term, which is of course, what it is. But one that has sadly, imo become recognized by the public consciousness, if not precisely mapped out (which is what I'll try to establish through LRMP sources &etc.)--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 06:12, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

*[[Flags of Our Fathers]]

::::::Well like I said there's a need for LRMP articles also ;-| but in all cases of such terms, whether hyphenations like Tatshenshini-Alsek for the "BC Panhandle" (as I've always called it) or Muskwa-Kechika or "South Chilcotin" (a contraction of Southern Chilcotin, full name should be Southern Chilcotin Mountains which is what the province had it named for a while; it's the [[Spruce Lake Protected Area]] again now (Spruce Lake-Eldorado Wilderness/Study Area was its name for a while in the '70s). Dates of provenance, and who coined the term, are fair game. What are they trying to claim -that the name is "from time immemorial" or something? They tried to pitch the Randy Stoltmann Wilderness too; that's now the [][Upper Lillooet Protected Area]] and nowhere near the scale they imagined; and really 40 years too late to pitch; as it is the "South Chilcotin" has been being pitched for park status for the '30s ''and it's still not''. anyway, later....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 06:19, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

*[[List of Medal of Honor recipients: World War II: Iwo Jima]]

:::Have a look at my comments on [[Talk:Great Bear Rainforest]]; added the template there and also to put the fly in the ointment the northamnative template; although if we do that then all LRMPs, if there are articles for them, should have them; well, the TCs and bands usually ''are'' part of the LRMP mechanism; much more than the RDs, which they're "outside" of and don't participate in.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 06:02, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

*[[Ralph Ignatowski]]

*[[Letters from Iwo Jima]]

==ReferencesSS Enterprise==

Hi again, just figured I'd ask about the name before I start an article on this boat, which I'll do after I finish with [[Hazelton, British Columbia|Hazelton]]. I wanted to get these towns that are heads and terminus's of navigation on these two rivers done first.

===Books===

Then I figured I'd do the ship articles in order, oldest to newest, by region.

*{{cite book

[[SS Enterprise]] isn't taken, although I'm sure there are others out there, I noticed a couple online. So should I just use that or get more specific [[SS Enterprise (sternwheeler)]]?[[User:CindyBo|CindyBo]] 18:58, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

| last = Allen

| first = Robert E.

| authorlink =

| coauthors = Zell Miller

| year = 2004

| chapter =

| title = The First Battalion of the 28th Marines on Iwo Jima: A Day-by-Day History from Personal Accounts and Official Reports, with Complete Muster Rolls

| publisher = McFarland & Company

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 0-7864-2158-4

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Bradley

| first = James

| authorlink = James Bradley (author)

| coauthors = Ron Powers

| year = 2001

| chapter =

| title = Flags of Our Fathers

| publisher = Bantam

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 0-553-38029-X

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Bradley

| first = James

| authorlink = James Bradley (author)

| coauthors =

| year = 2003

| chapter =

| title = Flyboys: A True Story of Courage

| publisher = Little, Brown and Company

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 0-316-10584-8

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Buell

| first = Hal

| year = 2006

| chapter =

| title = Uncommon Valor, Common Virtue: Iwo Jima and the Photograph that Captured America

| publisher = Penguin Group

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 0-425-20980-6

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Burrell

| first = Robert S.

| authorlink =

| year = 2006

| chapter =

| title = The Ghosts of Iwo Jima

| publisher = Texas A&M University Press

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 1-58544-483-9

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Hammel

| first = Eric

| authorlink = Eric M. Hammel

| year = 2006

| chapter =

| title = Iwo Jima: Portrait of a Battle: United States Marines at War in the Pacific

| publisher = Zenith Press

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 0-7603-2520-0

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Hearn

| first = Chester

| authorlink =

| coauthors =

| year = 2003

| chapter =

| title = Sorties into Hell: The Hidden War on Chichi Jima

| publisher = Praeger Publishers

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 0-275-98081-2

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Kirby

| first = Lawrence F.

| authorlink =

| coauthors =

| year = 1995

| chapter =

| title = Stories From The Pacific: The Island War 1942-1945

| publisher = The Masconomo Press

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 1-4140-1760-X

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Leckie

| first = Robert

| authorlink =

| coauthors =

| year = 2005

| chapter =

| title = The Battle for Iwo Jima

| publisher = ibooks, Inc

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 1-59687-246-2

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Lucas

| first = Jack

| authorlink =

| coauthors = D. K. Drum

| year = 2006

| chapter =

| title = Indestructible: The Unforgettable Story of a Marine Hero at the Battle of Iwo Jima

| publisher = Da Capo Press

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 0-306-81470-6

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Morison

| first = Samuel Eliot

| authorlink = Samuel Eliot Morison

| coauthors =

| year = 2002 (reissue)

| chapter =

| title = Victory in the Pacific, 1945, ''vol. 14 of ''[[History of United States Naval Operations in World War II]]

| publisher = University of Illinois Press

| ___location = Champaign, Illinois, USA

| id = ISBN 0-252-07065-8

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Newcomb

| first = Richard F.

| authorlink = Richard Newcomb

| coauthors = Harry Schmidt

| year = 2002

| chapter =

| title = Iwo Jima

| publisher = Owl Books

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 0-8050-7071-0

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Overton

| first = Richard E.

| authorlink =

| coauthors =

| year = 2006

| chapter =

| title = God Isn't Here: A Young American's Entry into World War II and His Participation in the Battle for Iwo Jima

| publisher = American Legacy Media

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 0-9761547-0-6

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Ross

| first = Bill D.

| authorlink =

| coauthors =

| year = 1986

| chapter =

| title = Iwo Jima: Legacy of Valor

| publisher = Vintage

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 0-394-74288-5

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Shively

| first = John C.

| authorlink =

| coauthors =

| year = 2006

| chapter =

| title = The Last Lieutenant: A Foxhole View of the Epic Battle for Iwo Jima

| publisher = Indiana University Press

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 0-253-34728-9

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Toyn

| first = Gary W.

| authorlink =

| coauthors =

| year = 2006

| chapter =

| title = The Quiet Hero: The Untold Medal of Honor Story of George E. Wahlen at the Battle for Iwo Jima

| publisher = American Legacy Media

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 0-9761547-1-4

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Veronee

| first = Marvin D.

| authorlink =

| coauthors =

| year = 2001

| chapter =

| title = The Battle of Iwo Jima

| publisher = Visionary Art Publishing

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 0-9715928-2-9

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Wells

| first = John K.

| authorlink =

| coauthors = Bradley T. Macdonald, Lawrence R., III Clayton

| year = 1995

| chapter =

| title = Give Me Fifty Marines Not Afraid to Die: Iwo Jima

| publisher = Ka-Well Enterprises

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 0-9644675-0-X

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Wheeler

| first = Richard

| authorlink =

| coauthors =

| year = 1994

| chapter =

| title = Iwo

| publisher = Naval Institute Press

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 1557509220

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Wheeler

| first = Richard

| authorlink =

| coauthors =

| year = 1994

| chapter =

| title = The Bloody Battle for Suribachi

| publisher = Naval Institute Press

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 1557509239

}}

*{{cite book

| last = Wright

| first = Derrick

| authorlink =

| coauthors =

| year = 2007

| chapter =

| title = The Battle of Iwo Jima 1945

| publisher = Sutton Publishing

| ___location =

| id = ISBN 0-7509-4544-3

}}

Oh, and do I put those wikiproject British Columbia and wikiproject Ship tags on the captain's and ship's talk pages too, as I start each one?[[User:CindyBo|CindyBo]] 19:42, 13 April 2007 (UTC)

===Web===

*Alexander, Col. Joseph H., USMC (Ret). [http://www.nps.gov/wapa/indepth/extContent/usmc/pcn-190-003131-00/index.htm ''Closing In: Marines in the Seizure of Iwo Jima''], Marines in World War II Commemorative Series, History and Museums Division, United States Marine Corps, 1994.

*Bartley, Lt.Col. Whitman S., USMC. [http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/USMC-M-IwoJima/index.html ''Iwo Jima: Amphibious Epic''], Marines in World War II Historical Monograph, Historical Section, Division of Public Information, United States Marine Corps, 1954.

*Garand, George W. and Truman R. Strobridge. [http://www.ibiblio.org/hyperwar/USMC/IV/USMC-IV-VI-1.html ''History of U.S. Marine Corps Operations in World War II'' Volume IV: Western Pacific Operations]

*[http://youtube.com/watch?v=zvFzbD5OH9Q See the story of the Battle of Iwo Jima from [[Paramount News]]reels]

* [http://www.iwojima.com/ IwoJima.com: A site dedicated to Iwo Jima and the famous battle]

* [http://ww2db.com/battle_spec.php?battle_id=12 WW2DB.com: Battle of Iwo Jima] with 150+ photographs

* [http://www.ww2incolor.com/gallery/movies/iwo_jima1 ''Iwo Jima Combat Footage in Color''] - From WW2incolor.com

* [http://multimedia.tbo.com/flash/iwojima3d/index.htm 3-D Stereo Photograph of Iwo Jima Flag-raising] - From The Tampa Tribune and TBO.com

* [http://www.johninjapan.com/photography/february-2007/iwo-jima-hdr.html Mt. Suribachi HDR Image] - A tone-mapped High Dynamic Range Image taken of Iwo Jima in February 2007

* [http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1118382,00.html Clint's Double Take] Eastwood directs two films on the battle of Iwo Jima: one from the U.S. side, the other from the Japanese

* [http://www.dailyreckoning.com.au/battle-iwo-jima/2006/10/30/ The Battle of Iwo Jima] An editorial piece by [[Bill Bonner (author)]]

*A lesson plan with primary sources [http://texashistory.unt.edu/young/educators/wwIIjimo/index.shtml Iwo Jima: Forgotten Valor] from the [http://texashistory.unt.edu/ Portal to Texas History]

* [http://www.historyanimated.com/IwoPage.html Animated History of The Battle for Iwo Jima]

*[http://www.articlemyriad.com/57.htm Scholarly article/overview of the Battle of Iwo Jima]

*{{cite web|url=http://jscms.jrn.columbia.edu/cns/2005-02-15/lemer-iwojima/

|title=Remembering the Battle of Iwo Jima

|author=Jeremy Lemer

|work=Columbia News Service

|date=[[February 15]], [[2005]]

|accessdate=2006-10-06}}

==For a laugh==

===Audio/visual media===

See [[Talk:Sinclair Centre]]. Think I need a wikibreak soon...--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 00:16, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

*''[[To the Shores of Iwo Jima]]'', a [[1945]] [[United States|American]] [[documentary film|documentary]] produced by the [[United States Navy]], [[United States Marine Corps|Marine Corps]] and the [[United States Coast Guard|Coast Guard]].

*''[[Sands of Iwo Jima]]'', a [[1949]] American [[film]] starring [[John Wayne]].

*''[[The Outsider (1961 film)|The Outsider]]'', a 1961 film starring Tony Curtis as the conflicted flag raiser [[Ira Hayes]].

*''[[Flags of Our Fathers (film)|Flags of Our Fathers]]'' and ''[[Letters from Iwo Jima]]'' (previously titled ''Red Sun, Black Sand''): two films directed by [[Clint Eastwood]], one from the American perspective from the book by [[James Bradley (author)|James Bradley]] and Ron Powers, and the other from the Japanese perspective.

==Re Central/Northern Interior==

== Notes ==

I believe the Northern Interior refers to everything from Quesnel up right to the borders on every side, excluding only Prince Rupert as it's on an island. [http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/rni/]. Central Interior is definitely Prince George and its surrounding area, and then there are many other regions within the Northern Interior. I'm not sure exactly where the regional borders are, I think it depends on the purpose we're talking about, forestry, electoral, etc more than anything. So it's not unusual to see Prince George referred to as either Northern or Central, both are true, it just depends on how specific you want to be. I also read your comments on my user page about the towns along the GTP route, yes there are a lot of them, mostly forgotten now. I think one was planned for every five or six miles or so, either by the GTP or a land speculating company. I have some info on a few of them, can't find Birmingham yet. Quick and Hubert and a few other like that. Some were roadhouses, brothels or unlicensed hotels (or all three at once) and tough to track down.

{{commons|Battle of Iwo Jima}}

And yes, I did start the page on [[Simon Gunanoot]], I didn't notice that it was on your page until yesterday, or the day before, when I poking around on other people's pages looking at user page formats. I didn't mean to barge in on your to do list, especially on something you have a lot more knowledge on than I do. I was wrapped in the [[Hazelton, British Columbia]] article which, of course, closely concerns Gunanoot, Cataline, Cline etc. I used [[Sperry Cline]]'s version of the Gunanoot events rather than some others that I've come across that seemed... wrong somehow. There are some wild versions out there, very contradictory.[[User:CindyBo|CindyBo]] 20:42, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

:All versions should be mentioned/cited, as much as possible; it's the whole point of NPOVism, to make sure everything is covered; in the course of pre-research on this it was interesting how much material there actually was, as well as conflicting bios. Even in wildly-wrong stories there can also be useful/relevant factual detail that's absent from others; so integrating verifiable facts as well as recounting false rumours/reporting are both in the ballpark.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 20:45, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

<div class="references-2column"><references /></div>

I noticed that too, in some of the more outlandish tales the dates were often right etc, where the sensible seeming ones written by people who were there had wrong dates or whatever. What's unfortunate is how even the local newspapers can't be fully trusted, some journalists made things up as they went along: if you look back on the local Titanic articles dated a couple days after it sank, it gets quite amusing, names wrong, everyone survived and so on. I'll dig up whatever references I can on Gunanoot and add them. There's an online bio too,[http://www.northword.ca/connections/Past_Issue/summer01/simongunanoot.html] that seems quite accurate, barring the Kitsegas error, but then it goes into some theories about Louis Riel and aboriginal resistance and everyone knowing where Gunanoot was all along... I'll add the reference to the article and leave it up to the experts, because I'm not sure what to make of it. I got in '''way''' over my head on that one.

{{coor title dm|24|47|N|141|19|E|type:isle_region:JP-13}}

Anyway, back to Central Interior for a second, I will amend what I said a few minutes ago, although Prince George considers itself to be the Central Interior, for some purposes it isn't,[[http://www.sierraclub.ca/bc/programs/education/ecomap/index.html]] and can go much farther south than I realized. Some of these regional lines are quite subjective, I guess.[[User:CindyBo|CindyBo]] 21:41, 14 April 2007 (UTC)

==About Mark Dalton==

[[Category:Pacific Ocean theater of World War II|Iwo Jima]]

Hey, I saw it spelled "Jeramy James Sons" on the information page where he was arrested for something. Type the name into Google, and you'll see what I mean. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/69.137.135.33|69.137.135.33]] ([[User talk:69.137.135.33|talk]]) 21:54, 14 April 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

[[Category:Battle of Iwo Jima]]

== Talk pages ==

{{World War II}}

Always enjoy running across your comments on talk pages. They're always extremely informative and interesting. I learn a lot, so thank you.

<!--Other languages-->[[de:Schlacht um Iwojima]]

[[es:Batalla de Iwo Jima]]

[[fr:Bataille d'Iwo Jima]]

[[hr:Bitka za Iwo Jimu]]

[[id:Pertempuran Iwo Jima]]

[[it:Battaglia di Iwo Jima]]

[[he:קרב איוו ג'ימה]]

[[hu:Ivo Dzsima-i csata]]

[[nl:Landing op Iwo Jima]]

[[ja:硫黄島の戦い]]

[[no:Slaget om Iwo Jima]]

[[nn:Slaget om Iwo Jima]]

[[pt:Batalha de Iwo Jima]]

[[ro:Format:Al doilea război mondial]]

[[ru:Битва за Иво Джиму]]

[[sr:Битка за Иво Џиму]]

[[fi:Malline:Toinen maailmansota]]

[[sv:Slaget om Iwo Jima]]

[[zh:硫磺岛战役]]

I'd give you a barnstar, but I'm afraid I'm not finding anything suiting, so this'll have to do. Cheers. [[user:RichMac|RichMac]] [[User_talk:RichMac|(Talk)]] 09:33, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

</noinclude>

:Mine (above) can be from both of us, then. And of course, you're absolutely right.--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 09:48, 15 April 2007 (UTC)

==Birmingham==

I'll have to go get that book, because I do recognize the reference to Birmingham now, it's mentioned in Rev Runnals, History of Prince George. Fort Salmon still exists as a farming community of Salmon Valley and Willow City is a couple of trailers and two or three houses. I certainly envy that era their optimism. I remember reading that the GTP said that Prince Rupert was going to be much bigger and more important than Victoria because its Oriental shipping lines are 500 miles closer and all that. They commissioned Francis Rattenbury to build a hotel for there that would be bigger and better than the Empress and also wanted him to build Chateau Mount Robson, Chateau Miette and the Jasper Mountain Inn. A person has to wonder what this part of the province would've been like if any of those would've been built.[[User:CindyBo|CindyBo]] 01:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

:Direct answer: the downturn caused by World War I, from which BC never recovered, not really, is at fault. Likewise the grand days of settlement in the Thompson, Kootenay and Okanagan, as with the whole gilded age worldwide but here with a special wild-country charm like, of course, nowhere else, plus a self-conscious Britishness in some places like Walhachin and the genteel orcharding society in the Okanagan and spa-and-steamer society life on the lakes. Northern BC might have swung up more if Prince Rupert had turned into a real city (as if it had room, but neither does Vancouver; Terrace is more likely for a North Coast metropolis just because of available valley-floor real estate....provided it's more than 60m above current sea level I guess); consider if there'd been actual industrial/commercial development throughout BC, instead of just resource ''exports'' - all the spin-off industries and what comes out of that, which is greater metropolitanization and urbanization; could have easily happened, and of course has begun to in PG, Kelowna, Kamloops; but that whole Omineca-Prince George area, with all its space, looks ominously Los Angeles-izable in the long run, given current population/immigration trends. Lots of room for freeways ;-) Just kidding. But yeah, a lot of the dreamers and visionaries in pre-Great War BC had amazing dreams; if not for the War, many of them would have continued coming true...what a grand place this would have been...(instead of a fleeting memory of one).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 01:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)

:::Have you seen the little mini-chateaux built of timber; e.g. the [http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/www2i/.visual/img_med/dir_70/a_08541.gif North Bend Hotel], the *[http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/www2i/.visual/img_med/dir_80/f_04078.gif Balfour, British Columbia|Balfour Hotel], the [http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/www2i/.visual/img_med/dir_104/b_02927.gif Sicamous Hotel] pr [http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/www2i/.visual/img_med/dir_81/f_08377.gif Mount Stephen House in Field]; I linked those on the [[Canadian Pacific Hotels]] article and on the Balfour and Sicamous pages maybe; don't think there's a North Bend page yet nor one for Field. Similarly all the CPR railway stations are highly photogenic, even the prefab/generic models. They don't build 'em like that anymore....the Prince of Wales is the largest of the style - timber-chateau I call it - but some of the others looked pretty neat/ the PoW actually looks a lot like the GN ones in MT come to think of it; Balfour and Sicamous were a lot smaller. I suppose [[Railway hotels in British Columbia]] might be a worthy topic, or another glorified table-list.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 01:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)