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# [[User talk:Skookum1/Archive 1|October 28, 2005 - October 31, 2006]]
# [[User talk:Skookum1/Archive 2|November 1, 2006 - January 27, 2007]]
# [[User talk:Skookum1/Archive 3|January 28, 2007 - March 27, 2007]]
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==Requests==
===[[Propaganda model]]===
One-sided article that presents a theory in an uncritical or supportive light. [[User:119|119]] 19:45, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
== Rugged Point volcanoes ==
===[[Web traffic]]===
Recently undergone extensive restructuring and extension. Would appreciate people highlighting any gaps in the article. [[User:Violetriga|violet/riga]] [[User_talk:violetriga|(t)]] 17:01, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
It appears that there are no volcanoes on Vancouver Island, just on the mainland of British Columbia according to [http://volcano.und.edu/vwdocs/frequent_questions/grp3/question2192.html Volcano World]. [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] 18:46, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
:No lead section and references. Otherwise seems fine after a cursory examination. [[User:Johnleemk|Johnleemk]] | [[User talk:Johnleemk|Talk]] 17:23, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
== Volcanics near Rugged Point ==
===[[The Passion of the Christ]]===
This article seems to be closing in on featured level. Can anyone check it out and see if there are any gaping errors? [[User:Johnleemk|Johnleemk]] | [[User talk:Johnleemk|Talk]] 16:55, 25 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I found out that an ancient tectonic plate called the [[Kula Plate]] used to have volcanic and sedimentary rocks about 55 million years ago that were scraped off and plastered against the continental margin when it was being [[subduction|subducted]] under the [[North American Plate]], forming Vancouver Island. [[User:Black Tusk|Black Tusk]] 17:23, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
===[[Australia's Brainiest Kid]]===
I am the only one to have contributed to this article - I want some review and some help adding essential information. I'm not expecting much help though because I'm sure most people will say it's "not notable" (a silly argument I think). [[User:Brianjd|Brianjd]] 10:09, 2004 Dec 24 (UTC)
==Chinaman (dab)==
===[[Gay Nigger Association of America]]===
I presume the edit I made will be bastardized within hours. Whether the term is derogatory or outdated or ''floral'' shouldn't be placed on a disambig page because then there becomes an edit war over "proof" that the word is ''whatever''. This leads to the "need" for references on a page that shouldn't have them. The question, proof, explanation, etc. of what the term means is gone into on the article's page itself. Disambig pages should only consist of concise descriptions to help a searcher determine which term they meant to be looking for, not in depth explanations of said terms. Thanks, I hope it holds, too. [[User:Chickenmonkey|Chickenmonkey]] 02:08, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
I am requesting additional sources of information for this story, also I want to know if we can do anything to write it from a NPOV. - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 10:06, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
::''because then there becomes an edit war over "proof" that the word is whatever.
:Well, I wouldn't say adding a See also section with [[NAMBLA]] is very NPOV. I welcome any attempts to make it more NPOV though. --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] 10:12, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's exactly what happened here over the last few weeks, in fact. The demand for references was by HQG, who's since backed down variously/considerably on what the page should have and/or be about. But there's always going to be someone who wants to rev up the language (and politics) to suit themselves; to me it's no better than the hooligan vandalisms of the last few days, as it's much similar in tone (esp. re the one edit commented on in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Chinaman&curid=10172774&diff=118921430&oldid=118921213\my recent edit] to the main talkpage, about the tone of invective, which is of course rooted in emotion. Encyclopedias can document that emotions exist, but they shouldn't express them, no? Thanks; this page is going to always take some watching over...[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 02:18, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
::I agree encyclopedias shouldn't express emotions, in the general sense, and disambig pages in encyclopedias definitely shouldn't. It's kind of like a phonebook listing ''the ugly John Smith'' or ''the famous Jane Doe''. [[User:Chickenmonkey|Chickenmonkey]] 02:38, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
:::....something that might be useful to say on the talkpage...[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 02:46, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
::::I'll certainly keep an eye on the page and mention these things if need be. Whether anyone will listen? Who knows. [[User:Chickenmonkey|Chickenmonkey]] 03:00, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
:The GNAA has nothing to do with gays or niggers, and does not restrict membership to American citizens. Other than that, the name says it all :-) --[[User:Carnildo|Carnildo]] 10:13, 24 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Hey again. With the dab page on Chinaman, or with any dab page, the most common usage should be the intro (if there is to be an intro). Given that a search for "chinaman" goes straight to [[Chinaman]], I assumed the most common usage was accepted to be "a term used to refer to a Chinese man". That, along with the qualifier you used "or in a less common usage", I would say that the other two uses in the intro should probably be listed with the other "alternate" uses. Which, according to policy (I think) all "alternate" uses listed should be linked to a page that mentions the term. [[Porcelain]] doesn't mention "chinaman". I don't doubt the three uses listed without being linked to an article that uses the term are accurate, but I'm going to remove the "drug reference" usage and the "porcelain" usage for now. I'm sure, with the China trade ship usage, the [[Old China Trade]] article (I think would be accurate, not sure) could be edited to include a sourced usage of the term "chinaman" to refer to their ships. [[User:Chickenmonkey|Chickenmonkey]] 04:13, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
::Well, it's back on VfD for the fifth time. Can we say "abuse of process"? - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 01:38, 26 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Oh, the Chinaman as a porcelain dealer is well-established, and in fact in one dictionary quoted on the [[Talk:Chinaman]] page (or its archive) it's the first listed; the ship ref is even older, but much less common; I found two usages in Kipling, as well as somewhere out there today I found a 1740 cite for it, in a time when we were still toying with "Chinnish" and "Chinian" to name the people of the new country "we" were trading with. But as for the chinaware thing:
===[[Bash.org]]===
*[http://www.thechinaman.co.uk/RunScript.asp?p=ASP\Pg0.asp The Chinaman - a shop in the UK]
We've done a major rewrite. IMO it's much better sourced now. Can we have suggestions on further ways of fixing this? - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 01:32, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
shows that it's alive and well, and probably quite normal in England; I suspect it's pronounced China + man, with more emphasis on "man", as in "old China hand"; or like some Newfs instructed me long ago, "Newfoundland rhymes with 'understand'". Whatever; there's no article needed for [[Chinaman (porcelain dealer)]], not that I can see; but it's certainly a real usage, and in fact older than the [[demonym]]. And as for the ship, I'm not sure if it was a physical type of vessel, or more the nature of the ship's business/trade/route; maybe we'll find that out somewhere....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 04:19, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
== Taking A Stab At ==
===[[MTR]]===
I sifted through some other articles on the coast with the Indigenous cultures and nations. I realized for a group which is heavily written about, there was little about. So, my main focus is working on the Kwakwaka'wakw, it's affiliations, and tribal groups. I moved a few articles around, and fixed up a couple others, but you noticed that already. The [[Kwakwaka'wakw]] article will become my main focus, along with the tribes. I'm probably going to create articles for all the tribes, if they are not created, but I think you kind of did that with 'so and so Nation'. I just think it should be the name of their nation, with other links following, ye know? I'll search around for pictures, and maybe stop by VPL to get some resources for books on the Kwakwaka'wakw. Let the article pimpin' begin! [[User:OldManRivers|OldManRivers]] 05:31, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
My first attempt at rewriting a major article over. This was listed on candidate for featured articles before I managed to do a rewrite, which received a number of objections. Any sharp observers willing to help out? Will be greatly appreciated. :) - [[User:Mailer diablo|Mailer Diablo]] 23:54, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
===[[The Secret Garden]]===
I have been adding a summary to this, which I feel is too detailed. Or is there such a thing as a too detailed summary? Plus, is the correct name a summary or a synopsis? Please treat all three as questions.
[[User:Lee S. Svoboda|Lee S. Svoboda]] 21:43, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:See the
:I will start somewhat less topically by noting that I am, personally, quite fond of this novel. In answer to your question, both summary and synopsis intimate concision and overview – for our purposes, we should view the two terms as overlaping. Unfortunately, I do find the section in question to be lacking in language, grammatical cohesiveness, and logical flow. These are areas where, I think, it could be significantly improved. Try to aim for clarity, avoiding convoluted sentences, for example: "...doctor who came from London, the only good docter Colin ''had had, had'' thought Colin..." I tend to view the citations as being out of place, and likely you should rethink the approach of including these as such. There seems to be an overemphasis placed on the attempt to reconsruct the actual narrative esp. through dialogue. Thus, I think you should aim towards a more objective and detached exposition. Try to condense major developments in a manner which is less emotionally-involved (esp. with the characters in the story).
{| align="center" class="toccolours" cellspacing="0"
|- bgcolor="#ccccff"
| align="center" | '''[[Kwakwaka'wakw peoples]]'''
|- align="center" style="font-size: 90%;"
|
[[Laich-kwil-tach|Laich-kwil-tach (Wei Wai Kai)]] | [[Wei Wai Kum]] | [[Gwa'sala]] | [['Nakwaxda'xw]] | [[K'ómoks|K'ómoks (Comox)]] | [[Kwicksutaineuk-ah-kwa-mish]] | [[‘Namgis]] | [[Quatsino]] | [[Da'naxda'xw]] | [[Awaetlatla]] | [[Tlatlasikwala]] | [[Tlowitsis]] | [[Kwiakah]] | [[Kwagyulh]] | [[Mamalilikulla]] | [[Qwe'Qwa'Sot'Em]]
|}
and other templates for tribal breakdowns, non-band.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 06:23, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
==Not sure why FN cat is displaying here==
:Hope this helps, good luck with the revision. [[User:El C|El_C]]
I just noticed "I" am in the [[:Category:First Nations in British Columbia|BC First Nations category]]., I just had a look through the page to see if I could spot where I didn't, maybe, use the colon format [[:Category:First Nations in British Columbia]], but I looked through the edit-source and can't see/find it. What's causing this? If anyone else can find it, pls rmv.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 21:29, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
===[[W.C. Handy]]===
My concern regards the changes I've made to the W.C. Handy page. Upon my observation, I first thought the page was plagiarized and hence very well may have violated copyright. However, I was wrong. Yet, the information contained on the original page did not reference any source or citation, save for a brief, excerpted online version of a biography which was (and remains) in no wise exemplary. As a long-time resident of the area of Handy's birth, I have done research into his life and music. Motivated by what I perceived to be a poorly written article which was little better than a stub, I completely rewrote it, citing sources, and adding external links to current events that celebrate and commemorate his work. Referencing the previous article, there was (and which I incorprated in a revision) a reference to some of his works which I felt though only somewhat appropriate, would be better suited in a musicology article. They mentioned only one person's opinion - the writer - again, with no source citation of any kind. In my complete rewrite, I referenced the subject's autobiography, and several independent sources which are included in the external links. There is, in my estimation, a more fully complete picture of the breadth and character of the subject, and one which the casual visitor/reader would find fascinating. One example is that he started his own highly successful publishing company in an era of aparteid, and was widely acclaiamed by all. Though that detail was not necessarily of itself important, in context of the time, it was. And, seeking to present and offer understanding of the subject in context of his era and the current era was my objective. Please take a look at the article(s) and share your thoughts with me. Realize also however, that some minor formatting issues may be present, for which others more experienced will hopefully and gladly correct. The main thrust of my concern is for content, not mark-up.[[User:Kevin L. Bardon|K. L. Bardon]] 18:08, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)
:See the section directly above this one. The template in there puts pages that transclude it into the category. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]], [[Special:Emailuser/Xiner|email]]) 21:46, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
===[[Katie Holmes]]===
::Didn't you know that you, Skookum1, is First Nations? lol [[User:OldManRivers|OldManRivers]] 21:49, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
Someone added a picture (a drawing, really) a few days ago and that was something I felt this needed. Does the substance need work? [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 18:01, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)
*Good stuff. A few things I saw that it could use: 1. Her girl next door appeal, the famous crooked smile, even a bit of a cult following, not to the level of Natalie portman, but still there I believe. 2. '''More sources''', ideally print, and ideally citing these points specifically. Citing the FHM more formally would be one. A references section is the typical way to do it, though citing specific facts is even better. 3. I believe she has done other modeling, appearing in spreads for men's magazines, maybe other work too. 4. When is ''First Daughter'' to premiere now? It only says that it was originally to premiere in Jan. 5. The drawing is great, but the artist that drew the picture could stand to note who he is if he is notable, or perhaps that he is not if that is the case. 6. A proper lead section and even overall sectioning wouldn't hurt. - [[User:Taxman|Taxman]] 20:02, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)
::Thanks, Taxman, for your comments. I will look through my commonplace books for some print cites for you. As for the [[FHM]] rankings, I relied on the lists we have at [[FHM-US's 100 Sexiest Women 2004]] and [[FHM 100 Sexiest Women in the World 2004]] (and other years), which I discovered through the "what links here" function. <br>''First Daughter'' premiered in September 2004. At the time I wrote the article, a new date hadn't been set and then someone changed that sentence without updating the information. I will do so. <br>Don't know who the artist is that did the drawing. It's based on a photograph taken by Mark Seliger--see [http://www.twbookmark.com/books/19/0821225987/gallery8872.html here] for the original. I didn't add the picture. While the artist's name is given in the picture information, I don't know anything about him.<br>Is sectioning really necessary on a short article like this? It seems to me it would unduly clutter it up. [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 17:21, Dec 27, 2004 (UTC)
:::I know, I just noticed that and tried to fix it; must be a hidden Category reference, maybe on one of the archive pages; I've asked User:Xiner to help me as I can't find it myself, despite thorough searching.....still can't find that map I'm talking about; lots of pages to sort through, might be a language page or main nation page, or even a subnation page - one of the external links, goes to a really elaborate language-areas map with neat floating overlays you can turn off. BTW ''YOU'' should have a look at the BC MapPlace links I just put on the BC WikiProject page, and check out the First Nations displays...this is the same technology used to build the other map; maybe that one is linked off the main MapPlace page....hmmmm.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 21:59, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
===[[Webster's Dictionary]]===
I revised this article and consolidated it with several related articles. Few edits re the substance since my work and I'd appreciate Wikipedians comments. Everyone has used Webster's Dictionary and ought to have some thoughts, no? [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 17:58, Dec 21, 2004 (UTC)
*The article needs a longer lead—[[User:Ashdurbat|Trevor Caira]] 14:21, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
=== [[EttyBC HillesumTreaty Process]]= ==
I started it. Personally, I think it's great as it is, but I think others will want to add more. If you want to help out with it, that would be great. I'm going to find source material on the whole BC Treaty Process. I don't know a whole lot about the actual histories of each things, but, I know the Nisga'a Treaty was a template for the BC Treaty Process, or as I like call it, ''Selfish-Government''. I also plan on starting [[senakw]] soon because the history of that village, pertaining to Vancouver would be great. (Ya know, how the missionaries and government murdered and destroyed the village.) [[User:OldManRivers|OldManRivers]] 21:43, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
My first full article, I'm not sure about the format. If anyone could give me some pointers how to improve the format, I'd be a happy Wiki. I'm pretty confident about the writing as such though. [[User:Sauronmaiar|SauronMaiar]] 21 Dec 2004 17.10 (UTC)
:Yeah, I guess that's the title it's usually known by these days; but NB it's for THIS process, not the previous ones with the NDP, or the century-long abstention by the BC government that led to the Land Claims impasse in the first place (Ottawa wanted them to settle over a century ago; 85% of the province was Government Reserve as a result, land held in abeyance of eventual settlement, until its original political purpose/stake was forgotten/shoved aside and in 1976 the new Forests Act assigned the whole shebang to be run by the Forest Industry; this was, IMO, a tactical/pre-emptive move to take the resources before they could be handed back over; and the deal is that MacMillan Bloedel, who got over half the wood (maybe as high 2/3; I've forgotten - this is from an old [[Allan Fotheringham]] article, I think....), was ''the'' main backer of the Bill Bennett election campaign in 1975. The item I saw on the Forests Act was coming from the environmental angle and didn't make the FN connection; I recognized it when in another article or book I came across the Government Reserve-as-collateral-for-eventual-land-claims-settlement context in an analysis of how the land claims impasse had come about. As early as Dufferin's visit in 1874 BC was getting dressed down about needing to settle, so as to not leave a legal vacuum, and it was an issue in the Confederation discussions; the BC position post-Confederation was that the plebiscite to join Canada had somehow wiped any provincial responsibility for land claims or native governance, which was all Ottawa's problem; but Ottawa couldn't settle without BC, and Ottawa wouldn't/couldn't come to the table if BC didn't, and BC wouldn't. ''Anyway'' (as I could go on...). I think a history of [[Land Claims in British Columbia]] or something is a separate potential article, covering all the history of the various native political/legal manoeuvres and statements, from the original Nisga'a declarations and the Lillooet Declaration and others like those right down to Delgamuukw, Vander Zalm's grandstanding at Toba which was quickly followed by the chopper visit to [[Seton Portage]] which was followed up by five dozen riot-squad mounties, the NDP's "go" at a treaty process, the Campbell government's about face, which then introduces the current Treaty Process. The bands/peoples who abstain or have only observer status should all be noted, of course.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 22:08, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
::Oh gods Treaty just agitates the hell out of me. [[User:OldManRivers|OldManRivers]]
:::You're not the only one. It's taken me years to straighten out what went down, i.e. technicality wise, and it's frustrating to watch/hear rehashes and modern-day press/political spins on it that don't conform to the actual history. Most British Columbians don't want to know; most also want it settled in the natives' favour, although you wouldn't think that from the letters to the editors and op-ed columns (that's intentional; they give airtime to loudmouths to drive readership, as people love to read people they hate...); and when I say "most British Columbians" I'm not referring to the new wave of immigrants, wherever they're from (Asia, Eastern Canada, Europe, Africa, wherever) but to the "old" BC intercultural community; sympathy for the native positionsn and a "damned right of course they own it" attitude has been around for a long time; it's just never given a media voice unless the person can be painted as a leftist or a loon or protesthead or whatever; calmer voices like Suzuki's and Glavin's are deliberately drowned out....whatever, it's sunny, man, and I've got to get outside with the guitar and open up for a while...talk to you later.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 22:22, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
::::And btw most people I'm talking about want a settlement not because of economic/market stability, which is the political motivation lately (as well as land scams right and left, as with Tsawwassen and Temexw), but because they want to see justice. Canadians, though a bunch of up-tight pricks for the most part, are inherently decent-minded and believe in fairness, and although there's some bozos who say "get over it" or "they deserved it/no better" who get a lot of airtime/copyspace the vast majority of people are horrified and also know that they wouldn't like it if their grandparents were stripped of their rights, lands etc; you'd think the Chinese community, so hot-to-trot for its own settlement, would have recognized the much more severe abuse your people went through, and continue so to this day; but all new groups just see it all as dollars and sense; settlement for new money types, whether from ON or China or wherever, is all about economic stability and political embarrassment; but consider human/indigenous rights in places where most of them come from, and you begin to see why IMO, if I'm right, there's a general lack of sympathy for the natives among the newer elements, as they just have no connection to it and don't want to know anyway; although how natives were treated ''is'' brought up as something to be critical of the so-called "dominant culture" with. So "be of good faith" Wiki-style with some of us ''hwelitem'', even ones that don't know as much as I do (and I know too much for my own damned good), as people want to know, they do want to fix what's done, and they're just as frustrated with the politicians as you are (and about nearly everything). Don't confuse the people with the politicians, I guess, is the way to sum that up. It goes for the old days too; there are lots and lots of stories of ordinary folks getting along with their native neighbours and cooperators etc; it's the bad stuff that gets print/air.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 22:28, 31 March 2007 (UTC)
==An Automated Message from [[User:HagermanBot|HagermanBot]]==
===[[Change ringing]]===
Lots of people have contirbuted to improve this article significantly, but I think we may all be bellringers closely involved with the subject, and I fear it may have become overly esoteric for the general audiance. Can anyone who isnt a bellringer still understand it?? Any other comments/sugestions also gratefully recived. [[User:Iainscott|Iain]] 14:18, 21 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Hello. In case you didn't know, when you add content to [[Wikipedia:Talk page|talk pages]] and Wikipedia pages that have open discussion, you should [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|sign your posts]] by typing four tildes ( ~~~~ ) at the end of your comment. You may also click on the signature button [[Image:Wikisigbutton.png]] located above the edit window. This will automatically insert a signature with your name and the time you posted the comment. This information is useful because other editors will be able to tell who said what, and when. Thank you! [[User:HagermanBot|HagermanBot]] 07:31, 2 April 2007 (UTC)<!-- HagermanBot Auto-Tilde -->
:Actually, I'm not a bellringer myself, even though I'm responsible for much of the current article (I did a pretty thorough edit a few months ago, including a rewrite of the intro ¶ and a big expansion of the "mathematics of bellringing" section.) One of my principal concerns in this article (as in all) was to explain everything in a logical order — ''my'' biggest worry was that my ignorance might lead me into some silly mistake! (So I was glad to get some peer review by bellringers to clean up my contributions.) [[User:Doops|Doops]] 05:25, 22 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:Shut the heck up Hagermanbot. I guess you're perfect and ''always'' remember eh? ;)--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 07:52, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
::Yeah, Hagermanbot's just a ''little'' too hasty. At least give me a minute to re-open the page to add my sig when I realize I left it off; fine to do it for me I guess, but I don't need a f**king robot telling me what to do because he beat me to it!! "He" and his "scolding" is more annoying than Hong or Uncle G. Guess I'll add a note on hagermanbot's little talkpage, wherever it is....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 17:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
:::That <small>([[WP:RPA|Personal attack removed]])</small> bot that just <small>([[WP:RPA|Personal attack removed]])</small> goes and <small>([[WP:RPA|Personal attack removed]])</small> leaves its <small>([[WP:RPA|Personal attack removed]])</small> stamp should be <small>([[WP:RPA|Personal attack removed]])</small><small>([[WP:RPA|Personal attack removed]])</small><small>([[WP:RPA|Personal attack removed]])</small>. Oh that felt good, on so many levels. Now. Back to being civil.--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 00:16, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
You can opt out of Hagermanbot. Just use the link in the heading, here, and go from there -- its simple and self-explanatory. Hagermanbot is well meant, but annoyingly officious. It really needs a reasonable time-delay, instead of jumping on unsigned posts the moment they appear. -- [[User:Lonewolf BC|Lonewolf BC]] 03:21, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
===[[Ernst Thälmann]]===
Comments on whether this worth listing as featured article candidate? [[User:Rd232|Rd232]] 18:04, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
===[[Vermont]]= Sockpuppet ==
I've been working hard on this for the past week, and hope this can be the first featured U.S. state article (either this of [[Hawaii]]). Suggestions or comments? [[User:Neutrality|[[User:Neutrality|Neutrality]]/<sup>[[User talk:Neutrality|talk]]</sup>]] 07:10, Dec 20, 2004 (UTC)
Skookum1, a piece of advice. Obviously the 4. person is an experienced Wikipedian, but I haven't seen any conclusive evidence that it is a sockpuppet. Until you have that evidence, it's better to assume good faith, because premature charges can doom the prosecution even if they are correct. [[User:Xiner|Xiner]] ([[User talk:Xiner|talk]]) 15:51, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
:I think that your article is very good. I lived in Vermont for some time, and I know a bit about it. Just trying to think of things that you could discuss... One thing is the act 250 controversies. Basicly, the act requires environmental review of large projects. Some people wanted to build a large mall in Willison, just outside of Burlington. It was prevented, on the grounds that the mall would destroy the property tax base of Burlington (a significant piece of which was retail stores on Church Street), and therefore indirectly damage the environment as Burlington would no longer be able to pay for various governmental services. (Since then, much has changed, and Big Box stores (Home Depot, Wall Mart) have opened in Willison).
:Other than one comment in the last few days 4.x.x. has backed down since I mentioned the checkuser report. I've been waiting for more before filing a report, but "if it walks like a duck and talks like a duck" applies here. It may not be who I and others think it is; but it's someone who's a regular Wikipedian who's "hiding" behind an IP address in order to make insults etc. "Assume good faith" is exactly what's not going on with the opponents of rationality in this fiasco. Well, it's not a fiasco because it's not over yet. But it sure is a nasty can of ideologically motivated worms, all writhing and posturing and puffery with their self-importance and righteousness. I left university to get away from sophomoric attitudes among people who think they're educated, and whose childish behaviour they hide behind procedural and bureaucratic manipulations; I may leave Wikipedia, ultimately, for the same reason.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 15:58, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
:In contrast to it's "green" reputation. Much of the economy (in the North West part of Vermont) is dependent on a few large employers: The University of Vermont, which includes a teaching hospital, and IBM manufacturing facility, and a factory which makes equipment for mounting machine guns on military helicopters (it had been a GE business). [[User:Mpearl|Morris]] 16:58, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)
::From what I've heard checkuser can go back about a month, for what that is worth. That gives you a little time to see if they continue the suspected sock behavior. Are editors allowed to use different names for different articles, so as to avoid someone being moved to stalk and undo every edit because of conflict in some contentious area? [[User:Edison|Edison]] 22:14, 5 April 2007 (UTC)
===[[Authorship of the Pauline epistles]]===
This entire article is has been written from the POV that the authorship that the Pauline epistles wasn't Paul. This is POV. As we encourage NPOV writing could an editor who knows something of this subject please look at this article? - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 02:31, 20 Dec 2004 (UTC)
== Mark Britten ==
===[[Corporation tax]]===
I've been expanding this with knowledge off the top of my head. I'd welcome a non-expert looking over it to say what bits need explaining too non-experts, what bits should be developed further and what else should be written about the subject. I'd also welcome an expert both commenting on the above, and on what I've gotten wrong. All thoughts/comments gratefully received. [[User:Jguk|jguk]] 23:29, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
This was the entire content of the deleted article: <<'''Mark Britten''' is an American comedian whose stage name is "The Chinaman"..>> There's not much point in my restoring that one sentence. There's no block on reposting the article once it has some content. [[User:NawlinWiki|NawlinWiki]] 19:11, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
===[[Operation Battleaxe]]===
:Couldn't have waited 5 minutes, could you, from the moment I created the article? Was it my fault for not putting a inuse on the article? Was my fault that I didn't warn other users possibly interested in expanding the article that it was tagged for sd? Oh, wait a minute, I DID warn other users possibly interested in expanding the article that it was tagged for sd. And [[Talk:Chinaman (disambiguation)#Mark Britten|I did IMMEDIATELY]]. Problem is, you were even faster in deleting the article. Now I'll have to report your behaviour, sorry. --[[User:Mafmafmaf|maf]] 19:35, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
The article was pitiful at first, so I revamped it. What do you think? -- [[User:Snipre|Snipre]] 21:16, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:Just to clarify that the preceding post was directed at [[User:NawlinWiki]]. --[[User:Mafmafmaf|maf]] 19:36, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
::Needs a [[Wikipedia:Wikiproject Battles|battlebox]]. [[User:Neutrality|[[User:Neutrality|Neutrality]]/<sup>[[User talk:Neutrality|talk]]</sup>]] 07:11, Dec 20, 2004 (UTC)
::Update: [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#VERY SPEEDY deletion of Mark Britten =|Behaviour reported]]. --[[User:Mafmafmaf|maf]] 19:54, 4 April 2007 (UTC)
[[Mark Britten]] article has been restored/written using available web resources. I'll be emailing him personally to tell him that the first try at this article got deleted in less than two minutes; maybe that'll find its way into his act.....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 18:41, 6 April 2007 (UTC)
===[[Persian Gulf]]===
I believe the article makes lots of unverified claims, which need to be verified. It also incomplete since it does not provide the Arab side of the issue. [[User:Roozbeh|roozbeh]] 15:28, Dec 19, 2004 (UTC)
===[[Life:Category:Vancouver As We Know ItIsland]]===
Just created this today after near cardiac when I discovered there was/never had been such a category. It will obviously need to be subdivided at some point, but when/if your wikitravels take you to the island feel free to check/add to the cat. I guess in a sense this would also be the first of the traditional/historic region categories so we can work towards things like the elimination of the silly Regional District classifications for where people hail from &etc. Anyway, later. --[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 07:53, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
My article on this current U.S. television series has links, bibliography, and a short synopsis. Any thoughts? [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 16:51, Dec 18, 2004 (UTC)
:Yeah, noticed that as lots of them are on my watchlist and I saw them all go by; it's the one definable region in BC, unless we define [[:Category:British Columbia Coast]] or [[:Category:Coast of British Columbia]] (''not'' [[West Coast of Canada]] which irks me as a title and usage but may be mandatory by Wiki rules; cf. my notes on [[Talk:West Coast of the United States]] early tonight about "West Coast" as ''our'' self-definer, not of either nation; that commonality between US and LA and Seattle etc. [[:Category:British Columbia Interior]] seems fairly well-defined, other than the Skeena maybe, and the Canyon and Pemberton; it implicitly includes the north, or maybe there should be [[:Category:Northern British Columbia]], from PG on up I guess, including of course the North Coast, though, so also overlapping, unless sep categories (and articles) for North Coast of British Columbia, South Coast of British Columbia, Central Coast of British Columbia were established; easier to just have of course [[:Category:Coast of British Columbia]] which both [[:Category:Lower Mainland]] (if it exists) and [[:Category:Vancouver Island]] can be subcats; my notion about the whole thing is the tripartite division of the place, and also my old idea about the "traditional" regions; i.e. vs. using the RDs as how to further subdivide other cats and such; but there's overlap between regions all over the place, and Yale and Pemberton which aren't quite one or the either; and the North Coast are more connected to the Island than the rest of the Coast, and so on. I think we can safely establish categories [[:Category:Cariboo]], [[:Category:Kootenay]], [[:Category:Chilcotin]], [[:Category:Fraser Canyon]], [[:Category:Okanagan]], [[:Category:Similkameen]], [[:Category:Shuswap]], [[:Category:Omineca]] etc (within the historical cats there could eventually be - hmm can't be [[:Category:New Caledonia]] so (prob [[:Category:New Caledonia (fur district)]] but I've never really noticed paranthetical titles in cats. So should these be [[be bold|made bold]] and let the chips fall where they may? Wiki rules would probably prefer that we identify what those are as officialized regions somehow; they're easily recognizable, even when they overlap or things don't fit right, too, though; but we also say "(the) Cariboo" as well as "(the) Cariboo Country" and so on through the list, eventually Stikine and Liard and Dease and Peace River Block (??) when there's enough articles up there to warrant; the Peace already but that cat name's going to be problematic, huh? Anyway, thoughts on seeing your Vanc Isl. cat; makes me think we can get away with all the others, and wondering on these other cat ideas; gona sign off; it's nearly 2.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 08:45, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
===[[Ibn Khaldun]]===
I translated this from a German article ([http://de.wikipedia.org/Ibn_Khaldun de:Ibn Khaldun]) which was featured quality. But looking at some of the external links I'm concerned about some contradictions over the middle part of his life (lots of intrigues), and possibly variation in name spellings. Anyone with an interest in the subject? [[User:Rd232|Rd232]] 12:15, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:Note overlap between e.g. [[:Category:Chilcotin]] and the already extant [[Tsilhqot'in]], which would seem to necessarily be a subcat of the otheres; not all native nation cats will coincide with these regions, but a lot will; or they could when necessary be in more than one region-cat, or only in the one that applies, e.g. [[:Category:Ktunaxa]] in [[:Category:Kootenay]] (provided that the Slocan is defined as being part of the Kootenay; I've never been clear on Nakusp and Revelstoke, Nakusp is maybe Kootenay as it's Arrow Lakes, but then so would be Galena Bay and Beaton and nearly Revelstoke; and again there's areas that don't fit like [[:Category:Big Bend of British Columbia]], though that's already in [[:Category:Columbia River]] in its own way; as should be [[:Category:Kootenay]] when it comes into being; the Okanagan cat is an issue because of the differential spelling, and it ''does'' span the border; it's one reason I specificaly chosen [[:Category:Syilx]] as the name for the [[Okanagan people]] cat, because of course in teh US it's got two o's.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 08:53, 7 April 2007 (UTC) Y'see to me there would seem to be an obvious parent cat of some kind of the American Okanogan and the BC Okanagan; I dodged the bullet with the FN/Native American cat but harder to do as a purely geographic region (in a non-national sense, like that problem with the [[Georgia-Puget Depression]] wherever that winds up at now.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 09:16, 7 April 2007 (UTC) [[Georgia Strait-Puget Sound Depression]], [[Georgia Strait-Puget Sound Basin]]?? - ''Anything'' but [[Whulge]] or [[Salish Sea]]. Fine if there were a common regional name spanning languages, but then it probably woudl hvae become part of regional english if that were the case, no? Whatever; g'nite for the second time, it's now 2:24am. One last PS I'll be reworking my Lillooet article, which needs work as I cribbed it from what was already there, but it's never been brought up to par and has errors; writing this tor emind myself, similarly with others in htat area, including those that need creation; I should really be spending my time writing/publishing a book on the area....but it's aresources thing, time/money spent while writing. Not that I'm making any money here, y'see... and get more grief than necessary sometimes ;-) [[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 09:19, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
===[[Fan (implement)]]===
I recently found this article, and it looks pretty complete. I added some pictures in the proper areas, and was wondering if anyone else thought this had Featured Article potential. If not, please edit/comment away. --[[User:Brian0918|[[User:Brian0918|brian0918]] <sub>[[User_talk:Brian0918|talk]]</sub>]] 05:59, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
[[:Category:Geographic regions of British Columbia]] has [[Aspen parkland]] in it, which isn't the purpose of the cat but I can see someone seeing it there; maybe a [[:Category:Biogeographic zones of British Columbia]], provided there's a [[Biogeographic zones of British Columbia]] or a similarly-titled List article.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 09:13, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
===[[Historicity of Jesus]]===
Can we have people comment on this article? It's just been through a major battle amongst several parties (including myself) and this is what we now have. It basically needs NPOVing and general cleanup. - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 05:43, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
*Why was [[Historicity of Jesus/]] created? Should it be redirected. [[User:BrokenSegue|[[User:BrokenSegue|'''B'''roken'''S'''egue]]]]
** It was a temp page. - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 03:03, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:Thanks. We've got a good redlinked 'to-do' list of possible future cats above this now, which I may cc to my to-do page, actually. I have been frequenting the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Categories_for_discussion/Log/2007_April_5 Categories for Discussion boards] lately, and chiming in occasionally-- since the streets and squares issue arose, and has since been overturned entirely. Anyway, it seems category deletion impulses are usually triggered by "over-categorization" and "non-notable" cats that don't specifically have articles associated with the cat. titles. In the case of most BC regions, we should be ok (Van Isle being the easy 'no brainer'), although there could be sourcing issues again re: the vaguely defined regions. But certainly in the cases of [[:Category:Kootenay]] and [[:Category:Okanagan]], which are better defined, creation shouldn't be controversial. I think fairly strong community support could be obtained from the project members too, if we were to discuss this on the WPBC proj page. Of course, those subcats would/could (as you alluded to) be based on those obvious larger region articles which you compiled a while back, which would have cats ([[:Category:Lower Mainland]], [[:Category:British Columbia Interior]] (purely a parent, really)..., Northern... &etc.). The categorization would have to follow existing articles, but would provide a more sensible and realistic flow of organization for articles relating to any BC subject. This way, we actually ''could'' realize and incorporate the different levels of self-identity into the cats (ie: "I'm from the [[Vancouver Island|Island]]" or "I'm from up in the [[Shuswap country|Shuswap]]"), which we ''know'' exist at the various levels of regions. Same with the biogeographic zones under the geo cat.. Precedents elsewhere would be useful, I'll keep perusing the boards and other cats for some guidelines, so as to try and pre-empt deletionists, although I'm sure a few will surface in all this. Still some inevitable cat. overlaps with peoples/towns, but hey, things are different here, as we know ;). Later man.--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 09:55, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
===[[Turmeric]]===
::OK just found [[:Category:Oregon Coast]] which bodes well for an overarching [[:Category:Coast of British Columbia]] here, esp considering the [[British Columbia Coast]] article, of your creation.--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 10:04, 7 April 2007 (UTC). Just created it, running on fumes...--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 10:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC). Just started adding to coast cat. Need a fresh pair of eyes on it though... for example, put the whole category [[:Category:Bays of British Columbia]] as a subcat of coast, which was probably wrong, considering [[Kootenay Bay]] &etc. but then all the bays were on the coast... a few conundrums, correct/organize as you see fit. ZzzZzz.--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 10:47, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
Turmeric's alleged anti-cancer properties, the ones mentioned in the article, also got a mention in the Bad Science Awards... [http://www.guardian.co.uk/life/badscience/] Please review. [[User:Etz Haim|Etz Haim]] 09:06, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
*Added TotallyDisputed comment to the top. This definitely needs editing, by someone who knows what they're talking about. --[[User:Brian0918|[[User:Brian0918|brian0918]] <sub>[[User_talk:Brian0918|talk]]</sub>]] 22:43, 19 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:::Bays of British Columbia? Yikes. Now is that geographic bays, or towns named "bay"???? And what about [[:Category:Inlets of British Columbia]] and whatever you'd put sounds in or call; and don't forget that a lot of things that are Sounds and even Straits are actually also part of [[:Category:Fjords]], according to strict definitions of fjords....and BC has a lot of ''freshwater'' fjords (Harrison, Pitt, seton-Anderson, chilko, Kootenay, dozens of major ones more...). freshwater bays and marine bays might be a useful distinction (sorry given up with my shift key....). anyway, just got in, haven't looked at you-know-where yet and need to eat and, er, tune up. I'll send ya a letter about other stuff. (PS bornmann watch in effect with the trial opening and today's press coverage, haven't noticed anything yet but we should all stay tuned....the case is gonna be hard stuff to right; alreaDy the articles aren't up to date because of complexity; like so many - hey, you don't have any old copy on the [[Salmon War]] of 1996, do you? Have to be bothsides POV of course, so alaskan/washington papers which I've never read their side of the crisis in would be interesting research.....like so much else, but there's only so much time in this world, and so much else to do....sigh.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 07:35, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
===[[German cruiser Blücher]]===
Came over this page as I was reading about the german invation of Norway in 1940. Rather disapointed at lack of content and a couple of factuall errors, I spendt some time expanding and - in my eyes - making it better. Now, if someone could look over it with some fresh eyes and fix all the things I'm sure I forgotten, I'll be very gratefull. I'll see if I can get time to work more on it myself as well. [[User:WegianWarrior|WegianWarrior]] 12:13, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
*I've done a copyedit and wikification. Someone else will have to check the facts. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User_talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 12:56, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
*I'll try to help out as well. Being a Norwegian, the subject matter is quite relevant to me in the first place* (+ I'm a WWII history 'nut'...). (* but note, of course, that I'm always striving to keep articles NPOV regardless of any personal relevance) --[[User:Wernher|Wernher]] 15:05, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
*OK, I've put in some initial effort. More to follow; the book by Binder & Schlünz is a superb reference. (A pity it's not translated into English. Hmm, an opportunity to earn a little money from my writing, perhaps, contrary to my present [[wikipediholism]]...) --[[User:Wernher|Wernher]] 18:01, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
=== [[Fischer-Tropsch process]] ===
I put this together from scraps of other stuff. I can't get it to cohere properly. If anyone (particularly chemists) could take a look at it, I'd be grateful. -- [[User:The Anome|The Anome]] 10:14, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)
=== [[Dog]] ===
Was FILLED with POV and unwarranted editorializing. I've tried to clean it up. I'd love a second opinion. --[[User:Dante Alighieri|Dante Alighieri]] | [[User talk:Dante Alighieri|Talk]] 01:48, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)
:You did a good job. [[User:Elf|Elf]] | [[User talk:Elf|Talk]] 02:31, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
=== [[Methylsulfonylmethane]] ===
Please, someone review the Wiki article on the dietary supplement Methylsulfonylmethane (MSM). The current page content reads almost like stock sales material for a supplement vendor. Here is a key segment from the conclusion:
"This remarkable nutrient has many valuable applications to human health. The basic science to back up these applications is well established and the clinical science is emerging."
In fact, the current Wikipedia page on MSM has no independent reference links at the bottom of the page. I did basic Google and Medline searches on Methylsulfonylmethane and found the following info:
(1) The #1 Google result is from quackwatch.com. Their lengthy discussion of MSM casts great suspicion on any health claims, and thus by comparison one has to wonder why the Wikipedia page contains mainly pro-MSM statements and few if any real caveats. For example, why doesn't the Wiki page mention the 10/2000 FDA action against Karl Loren to stop his extravagant therapeutic claims for MSM.
(2) Medline has few articles on Methylsulfonylmethane. However, one particularly disturbing 2002 study that came up was this one: "Accumulation of methylsulfonylmethane in the human brain: identification by multinuclear magnetic resonance spectroscopy." The abstract ends on this sombre note: "Appearance of MSM in significant concentrations in the human brain indicates ready transfer across the intact blood-brain barrier, of a compound with no known medical benefits."
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=pubmed&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=11641045
In short, I strongly believe that Wikipedia users are being presented unreviewed, highly biased information about MSM. -- [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Special:Contributions&target=205.179.101.138 205.179.101.138]
:Added TotallyDisputed message at the top. --[[User:Brian0918|[[User:Brian0918|brian0918]] <sub>[[User_talk:Brian0918|talk]]</sub>]] 21:47, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
=== [[Korean Buddhism]] ===
Seems like it is is becoming an awesome article and well on its way to becoming featured. Do people agree? If so, I'll put it in the featured article candidates.--[[User:Alsocal|Alsocal]] 20:13, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
=== [[Autism]] ===
This article has a lot of good information about autism and it has the potential to become much better than it is. However, some parts need some POV help and a good overview from someone who knows a lot about this issue. --[[User:Szyslak|Szyslak]] 11:24, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I support this candidate --[[User:Dorfl|Dorfl]]
=== [[Equal Protection Clause]] ===
Most of what constitutes this article was added by me. I plan to add more information on the history of the courts' interpretation of the Clause—esp. from the Reconstruction to the Civil Rights Movement, incl. cases such as ''Plessy'' and ''Strauder'' and ''The Civil Rights Cases''. Is there anything else I should add? I aspire to featuredarticledom. Criticism is greatly desired; lay it on me! Thanks, [[User:Hydriotaphia|Hydriotaphia]] 02:00, Dec 15, 2004 (UTC)
:OK, so I've added some more history, and an image. I've got more work to do—I plan a section on ''Brown'' and school integration—and I would ''love'' suggestions. Thanks again, [[User:Hydriotaphia|Hydriotaphia]] 04:14, Dec 16, 2004 (UTC)
I made some suggestions on the talk page for the article. Looks like you have done some substantial work on this. [[User:Edeans|Edeans]] 23:21, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:I've tried to respond to some of your suggestions, especially those concerning the role of the NAACP in civil rights litigation. Indeed, I've found a wonderful image of Thurgood Marshall and Charles Hamilton Houston from the Maryland state archives. This message can be found on the talk page of Equal Protection Clause as well. Thanks so much for your suggestions. If it's not too much to ask, please continue to critique the article. What you've said is very helpful. [[User:Hydriotaphia|Hydriotaphia]] 03:22, Dec 17, 2004 (UTC)
::I like the para. you added; it has the right amount of detail for this article, IMHO. I agree with you on the pic, too--it's great. I know I've seen it before, but I cannot remember where. When you have time, take a look at the Thurgood Marshall article. You may have something useful to contribute here as well. [[User:Edeans|Edeans]] 04:58, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I have removed the peer review notice and am going to propose my article for featured article status. [[User:Hydriotaphia|Hydriotaphia]] 04:45, Dec 20, 2004 (UTC)
=== [[Pulaski Skyway]] ===
Yeah, I'd like some feedback; I've done a lot of research. Should I add anything? Make anything clearer?
:Some quick notes--
:*Introduction section - maybe mention the time savings to motorists (it's referenced later in the trucks section)?
:*Toll discussion in history section needs to be clarified - was the toll instituted or not? Why? The issue is stated regarding federal funding but never resolved in the article.
:*Could use more discussion on funding, as long as the topic is brought up.
:*Access section - is calling the middle ramps "hazardous" POV? Are there statistics saying these are unusually dangerous ramps?
:*Also on access - a simple schematic map would be more informative and less confusing than the current list of entrances / exits
:*Trucks - was there a critical accident or series of accidents that spurred the ban? This is potentially an interesting topic, and it would be nice to see more expansion on it.
:*Also - it would be interesting to see if there are any statistics available on traffic loadings on the Skyway; in the same vein, some discussion on modern problems with traffic jams (if they exist) and any discussions (current or historical) that have taken place on the possibility of expanding the Skyway to more lanes (and if they have happened and have failed, why).
:Just some ideas; take them or reject them however you like... good article! [[User:Bantman|Bantman]] 18:44, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:Left exits are known to be hazardous and deprecated in highway design, so no problem with that. One thing I see immediately is lots of emphasis on some truck access issues -- 50 years ago. What happened since then? There must be mroe recent history that can be incorporated. Maintenance and toll issues, certainly. --[[User:Dhartung|Dhartung]] | [[User talk:Dhartung|Talk]] 19:59, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Thanks for the input. I'll see what I can find on funding (tolls were never added; I think a bond issue was passed). I found mention of time savings on opening, but I don't have any current data; I do know that it's still faster than the truck route. I'll see what I can do for the map - I'll probably hand-draw something to avoid scale issues. I'll see what I can find about truck accidents, but I don't think it was anything out of the ordinary, just trucks having problems with a narrow road.
I should be able to get traffic data from opening and current (and probably 1995), but I'm not sure about in-between data.
I haven't seen anything official about expanding the Skyway; the Turnpike extension to the Holland Tunnel sort of negated the need for that for a while. If I can find traffic data before and after that opening, that would be nice.
I don't think anything has been changed with trucks since they were banned, except the temporary closure of the truck ramp. Trucks continue to be banned. Though I read somewhere that they're currently banned because of weight issues - I'll see what I can find.
Just forgot something major - the Skyway is or is proposed to be in the [[National Register of Historic Places]]. --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] 12:40, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
I think I've taken care of everything I could. Anyone else want to give it a look? --[[User:SPUI|SPUI]] 18:32, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
=== [[Aquarium]] ===
I've done lots of work on this article (several weeks ago at this point), but would like some feedback on it, specifically on organization and what information might be better relegated to other articles. Also, I harbor fantastic dreams of featured article-ness, so any help in moving in that direction would be greatly appreciated! [[User:Bantman|Bantman]] 02:21, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
* It still seems a bit sketchy. I'd like to see more info about problems: new tank syndrome, breaking-in aquaria, ammonia/nitrate conversion, how biological filters work, pH buffering, aquarium cleaning, mulm, stocking (fish per m<sup>3</sup>) etc. It should introduce aquarium concepts and issues, not just provide an overview of different types. A diagram of a home aquarium would be very useful. And lots more photos: this is the perfect venue for beautiful aquarium images. [[User:GeorgeStepanek|[[User:GeorgeStepanek|GeorgeStepanek]]\<sup><font color="gray">[[User_talk:GeorgeStepanek|talk]]</font></sup> ]] 01:23, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
::I've added in a section on tank ecology adressing the nitrogen cycle and biological loading. I agree re: pictures and diagrams, but I don't have any myself and doubt my ability to actually produce them. Please, anybody out there, contribute! [[User:Bantman|Bantman]] 21:49, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:::Yep, that's looking a lot better. Try [[Public ___domain image resources#Fish]] or [http://pdphoto.org pdphoto] for aquarium fish images, otherwise Google for public ___domain images—there's a fair number of academic resources for wildlife. (Unlike [[weight training]], dammit!)[[User:GeorgeStepanek|[[User:GeorgeStepanek|GeorgeStepanek]]\<sup><font color="gray">[[User_talk:GeorgeStepanek|talk]]</font></sup> ]] 03:35, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:*I'd suggest two areas for change. First is under the "Aquarium Design" paragraph, in the "Filtration System:" bullet. I would replace "nitrates" with "nitrogenous wastes" (like ammonia and nitrite). The biological filtration provided by the vast majority of commercially available filters do little or nothing to reduce nitrates. This is pretty clearly indicated in the "Nitrogen Cycle" section.
::Speaking of the "Nitrogen Cycle" section (para. 2)...based on the literature available (such as [http://www.marineland.com/science/nspira.asp here], [http://aem.asm.org/cgi/content/full/64/1/258 here], and [http://biology.kenyon.edu/Microbial_Biorealm/bacteria/nitrospira/Nitrospira.htm here]), it appears that Nitrobacter has been replaced by Nitrospira as the key player in the reduction of nitrites.
::If I should be making these changes myself, I apologize. I've not yet edited a page for which peer review has been requested. [[User:Red Goat Jackson|Red Goat]] 00:37, Dec 23, 2004 (UTC)
:::Thank you for your suggestions and excellent references. I have made the appropriate changes, and you have also kick-started the next effort for the page - references! [[User:Bantman|Bantman]] 04:12, Dec 23, 2004 (UTC)
=== Bombing of Dresden in World War II ===
There is a straw poll in progress at [[Talk:Bombing of Dresden in World War II#Avoid weasel terms]]. Please read what has been written and vote in it if you think it is of interest. It is a clear cut dispute about what should go into the top section of the article [[Bombing of Dresden in World War II]]. The issue is covered in detail in a sub-section [[Bombing of Dresden in World War II#Was the Dresden bombing justified?]] and that section although it influences the introduction is not involved in this straw poll. [[User:Philip Baird Shearer|Philip Baird Shearer]] 21:50, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
=== [[Btrieve]]===
I've managed to expand this considerably (see [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Btrieve&diff=0&oldid=8107700]). I've got a bit more to go, especially with the Pervasive line of products, but otherwise its fully complete. Do we have any Btrieve/Pervasive/Novell btrieve programmers/sys admins/users who would be able to fact check or help me expand this article? - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 10:52, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
*The lead section still needs some work. I attempted to tell what it is, but it needs to be more clear. Part of the problem is that it is not called Btrieve as it is marketed today, so the is the article about a historical or current product? That confusion never really seems answered in the article and needs to be especially carefully done in the intro. - [[User:Taxman|Taxman]] 15:29, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)
**Thanks Taxman :) I'll update this soon, I just need to add more info to the main body of the article. Then I'll get the lead section sorted. - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 17:04, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
***responding your message on my talk page, yes that is much better. Still needs a bit more to clearly answer the problem I noted above. The product is not called Btrieve now, but that is still the title. Is it still successful? Is the article going to cover more about the current product or no? The article needs to be clear about that second point and the reason why. - [[User:Taxman|Taxman]] 23:59, Dec 22, 2004 (UTC)
****The article is going to cover Pervasive.SQL 7 & Pervasive.SQL 8, but I've decided to only note the Btrieve transaction database component (read legacy, non-relational database backend). As stated earlier in the article it plugs into the MKDE (the other module is Scalable SQL, their relational database product). Hence the modular architecture. Ah. That means that I need to mention the modular architecture in the lead section and how Btrieve is now only one component of their general product. So I'll edit this accordingly. I was thinking of transcluding the history section and using it for other articles. What do people think of this idea? - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 06:32, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
*The beginning definitely needs rewording. If I knew more about this subject I might be able to help. The first two sentences somehow need to be combined into one, and the last two sentences need to be much clearer and more concise. --[[User:Brian0918|[[User:Brian0918|brian0918]] <sub>[[User_talk:Brian0918|talk]]</sub>]] 17:14, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
*OK, I've fixed the lead section. Should be a lot better now! - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 09:28, 23 Dec 2004 (UTC)
**Well the lead is a lot better and the article is shaping up nicely. It is now beyond my knowledge of the area to comment much. - [[User:Taxman|Taxman]] 17:56, Dec 23, 2004 (UTC)
=== [[Fairport Convention]] ===
I've been working on this intermittently for the last couple of weeks. Tonight, I rewrote the (previous rather POV) introduction and tidied up the headings/sections.
I hope this article can reach Featured Article status. Perhaps it is there already? I am as sure of the facts as one can be but I would be grateful if anyone who knows the subject would check for errors. I also think it needs experienced Wikipedians to check the Wiki links and the format.
I would welcome collaboration. If anyone has any comments, please leave them on my talk page. Thanks! [[User:Andy F|Andy F]] 02:46, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:I'd suggest putting the Discography below the list of band members, and putting the current members above the past members. Also, once the page gets too big, move the discography and list of past members to their own pages. --[[User:Brian0918|[[User:Brian0918|brian0918]] <sub>[[User_talk:Brian0918|talk]]</sub>]] 06:19, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
::OK, agree - done that. Thanks. [[User:Andy F|Andy F]] 14:27, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:It needs [[Wikipedia:Cite_sources|references]]. Otherwise it could be considered as entirely made up out of thin air. Use the best ones available, and hopefully find if there are any print ones available. It also needs some help for NPOV. For example the first sentence "...is arguably the quintessential British folk-rock band" is POV. Who claims that? Having a source available is very handy to fix that kind of POV. If a fan page claims that then that is POV. If a prominent music critic claims it, then it can be left and cited. - [[User:Taxman|Taxman]] 15:40, Dec 13, 2004 (UTC)
::I see what you mean, Taxman. I used the word "arguably" to indicate this was a very widely-held, but essentially unprovable, POV. I think Ritchie Unterberger (the rock biographer) could be a source for this view. I'll check. As to printed sources, there have beeen four books published. Two are good, one is a pamphlet, one is pretty dire. I've not read any of them them for years and they're all out of print now but I will see if I can get details. Thanks. [[User:Andy F|Andy F]] 02:30, 15 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:::I've added the Ritchie Unterberger source and un-POV-ed the opening paragraph. [[User:Andy F|Andy F]] 10:05, 18 Dec 2004 (UTC)
=== [[Draft]] ===
An unusual request, I'll admit. This is a disambiguation page that I just finished rewriting. I'd like to see if anyone can arrange the twelve separate listings here in a clearer and more logical fashion. --[[User:Smack|Smack]] 22:38, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:Seems to me that they could be sorted into one of only three root meanings - selection (conscription, sports draft, politician draft), fluid displacement (draft of a hull or sail, beer, wind, reservoir, racing, and more abstractly finance), and preliminary specifications (draft report, engineering drafting). Checking the OED for origins of these words might be useful... it's probably wishful thinking to expect they fall neatly to three different root words, but it's worth a shot I guess. Would categorizing the redirects in such a manner assist in achieving easier and more informative disambiguation? I don't know... interesting question. [[User:Bantman|Bantman]] 01:54, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
===[[Extra-sensory_perception]]===
This article (which Jimbo called attention to on the mailing list as particularly poor) seems imbalanced to me. I am not trained in the sciences at all, and sadly my only experience with ESP is in readnig the books of noted skeptics like Randi and Gardner -- this means I don't have neutral sources to bring to bear. I have done what I can (and it's probably insufficent) but I don't feel as though the article is really in good shape yet -- it needs more attribution and references, and I don't think I'll be able to supply them. Any attention will be very appreciated. [[User:Jwrosenzweig|Jwrosenzweig]] 22:22, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:As per the second paragraph, see: Targ, Russell and Puthoff Harold (introd. by Margaret Mead; fwd. by Richard Bach) ''Mind-Reach: Scientists Look at Psychic Ability'' (Delacorte Press, 1977) <small>ISBN 0440056888. </small> [[User:El C|El_C]]
===[[Stanislaw Koniecpolski]]===
This historical bio has lots of contents. What it needs is a read through a native English person and some minor - I hope - language fixes. Of course, all other comments appreciated. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]] 21:24, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
===[[Linked list]]===
Help with reorganisation of this article and other suggestions would be ''most'' appreciated. - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 10:07, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
===[[Weight training]]===
This article was in a very poor state, so I have spent the last few days rewriting it, hopefully to a high standard. However, I'm still quite new to Wikepedia, and I'd like to ask for help achieving the preferred style.
My main concerns are regarding levels of generality and detail, and also regarding attribution for issues where there is a difference of opinion. Do I still have to say "Alice says X whereas Bob says Y" if both Alice and Bob are non-notable, or can I just say "some people believe X whereas others believe Y"?
Also, given that this is intended to be an entry-level article, is the writing at a low enough level, or should it be simplified further?
I realise that the article is short on images, and I will be adding photos of most—if not all—of the exercises just as soon as I can get a model, photographer and gym together at a mutually convenient time. Are there any other images that would be useful?
Please let me know what you think. Thanks! [[User:GeorgeStepanek|[[User:GeorgeStepanek|GeorgeStepanek]]\<sup><font color="gray">[[User_talk:GeorgeStepanek|talk]]</font></sup> ]] 02:06, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
===[[Ismail Al-Faruqi]]===
Any comments or suggestions towards improving this article is welcome, as I would really like to nominate it for WP:FAC soon. I have been working on this article alone for the past three weeks or so -- check the history panel of the article ;) [[User:Menj|Menj]] 02:10, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
===[[Music of Nigeria]]===
I'd like to nominate it for WP:FAC soon, but decided to put it here first. I've just spent two hours moving bits around and swapping sections and whatnot, but I'm not sure the result reads any clearer than it did before. I'd like some readers' opinions. Are there any questions unanswered? Can you follow the complex interweaving of juju, fuji, highlife, Yo-pop and other styles? Does it give an adequate overview of traditional music? [[User:TUF-KAT|Tuf-Kat]] 02:05, Dec 8, 2004 (UTC)
===[[Charles Keeping]]===
I'd like some input to put Keeping's work into context. I don't know enough about artists and illustrators to be able to identify the major influences on his work, or what else was going on in illustration and Keeping's place in it. I also think more opinions would enrich the article. --[[User:Nicknack009]]
===[[Monty Python]]===
I stumbled across this page recently and have been adding content to it. I think it has enough content to become a Featured Article at some point, although I also think there is still some work to be done. If you notice any simple problems, such as grammatical errors, easily fixable POV problems, or factual errors, please fix them and post here about it (don't post if it's completely trivial). If you have any other problems with it, such as sections having too little content, too much, not the right content, or there's POV, please post here and give possible solutions if you have any. I believe the content should focus on the cast more than the films or television series, because, unlike [[Star Trek]], [[Monty Python]] has come to mean just that: the six people behind the films and TV series. There must be some content-blending with the TV series, however, since that is where "Monty Python" comes from. --[[User:Brian0918|[[User:Brian0918|brian0918]] <sub>[[User_talk:Brian0918|talk]]</sub>]] 02:26, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
: Added more ilinks to the lead. They are important and useful tool - I am sure more could be added to main text. I like the 'And now for something completely different' section title but in needs to have a descriptive title in parenthesis as well. I'd move members at the bottom, so we could merge history (pre, normal and post) into one section. --[[User:Piotrus|Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus]] 21:22, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
::Sounds good. There are a lot of wording problems (POV, general disarray) throughout the article as well. Anyone care to work on that also? --[[User:Brian0918|[[User:Brian0918|brian0918]] <sub>[[User_talk:Brian0918|talk]]</sub>]] 02:29, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
Rearranged the biography of Graham Chapman so that it did not start with his death. [[User:JerDW|JerDW]]
===[[Fuel Cell Bus Club]]===
I think I am the only person to have contributed to this article so far. I know it needs to have a reference to the United Nations and perhaps when the buses started operating in Europe if we can find that out. [[User:Brianjd|Brianjd]] 05:55, 2004 Nov 30 (UTC)
* Another user has also contributed. [[User:Brianjd|Brianjd]] 07:36, 2004 Dec 4 (UTC)
:I think the article looks fine and I can't think of anything to add or remove. Good job. Very interesting topic too. [[User:MikeCapone|MikeCapone]] 19:34, 12 Dec 2004 (UTC)
* This article covers trials other than the one being conducted by this club, which is inappropriate, but I can't think what should be done about it. See [[Talk:Fuel Cell Bus Club#Other trials]]. [[User:Brianjd|Brianjd]] 10:06, 2004 Dec 24 (UTC)
===[[Template:Mapit-US-streetscale]]===
This is a prototype for some external mapping link templates that I think could be pretty useful. You can see an example of this template in action at: [[Buena Vista Park]]. Please give me some feedback as to whether you think this could be useful and how to make it more useful. You will find my idea for the template discussed on the talk page. Thanks! --[[User:Chinasaur|Chinasaur]] 04:09, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
**Wow! I like it! Good idea. [[User:Neutrality|[[User:Neutrality|Neutrality]]/<sup>[[User talk:Neutrality|talk]]</sup>]] 04:13, Nov 30, 2004 (UTC)
===[[San Jose, California]]===
This article has been greatly expanded in the last 18 months or so. While we know it's not perfect yet (if any article can truly be perfect), we'd like to nominate it for featured article status. A few more eyes looking at the article before that happens would help ensure its accecptance. [[User:Gentgeen|Gentgeen]] 02:30, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
*Looks good. I made a few minor changes, but nothing drastic. Regarding the history, I'm wondering ''how'' San Jose came to be such a great place for high-tech companies - were there tax incentives or people just came for the view or what? It's one of the most important technological hubs in the U.S. - how did it get that way? Other than that, I'm not sure the article flows very well (but organizing a city page like this is tough), and in a few places the text doesn't read particularly well. But overall, looks like a winner that needs a bit more preparation. [[User:Spangineer|Spangineer]] 15:27, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)
**One more thing - do you have any print references? It seems to me that "references" generally refer to printed material, while "external links" refer to website references. If my understanding is correct, that means that you have 4 external links and no references, which the featured article critics aren't going to like. It might help to find a couple books on San Jose history that confirm the information you have and include those. One of them could be the book that is excerpted from in the Flashback link. [[User:Spangineer|Spangineer]] 15:40, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)
***Online references are acceptable, but should be formatted as shown at [[Wikipedia:Cite sources]]. Many people feel that online references are not as reliable, but that varies just like in print references. The goal is to get some of the most reliable references available, and enough to cover and verify all of the material in the article. Usually that would involve some print references, so I second that request. I quick trip to the local library should yield some good ones. - [[User:Taxman|Taxman]] 22:24, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)
***Separate comments I noticed are the map, the larger inset map is very confusing at first as to what it is. Can you get some arrows showing the zoom in or something? Also, many one and two sentence paragraphs throughout the article. Those show bad form, and highlight concepts that either need expanding or merging in with other paragraphs. - [[User:Taxman|Taxman]]
*Minor point for the Sport Teams section - I believe that the XFL is defunct. You might want to clarify that or remove the Demons all together - [[User:Trick|Trick]] 23:20, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
===[[Jarmann M1884]]===
Pretty much wrote all of this article muyself as well - same as the [[Krag-Petersson]] below - and this too is in need of some fresh eyes to bring it up a notch or two. And as with the KP, this could also need attention from someone patient enought to correct my terrible spelling ;) [[User:WegianWarrior|WegianWarrior]] 14:06, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
===[[Krag-Petersson]]===
Pretty much wrote all of this article myself, but it's in need for some fresh eyes to bring it up a notch or two. Could espesially need attention from someone patient enought to correct all my spelling mistakes ;) [[User:WegianWarrior|WegianWarrior]] 12:50, 29 Nov 2004 (UTC)
:Not too many spelling mistakes, I fixed the ones there were. If you use [[Firefox]], you may be interested in the Spellbound extension. It allows spell checking in text input boxes like Wikipedia's. My biggest question is what is a [[breachblock]]? There are a number of other terms that could stand wikifying. The gun specific stuff could stand with at least creating stubs for them. Some of them should be explained better in the page. Someone not all that familiar with guns should be able to know what the basic terms are. - [[User:Taxman|Taxman]] 21:39, Dec 6, 2004 (UTC)
::Figured the easiest way to explain what a breachblock is was to create a stub on it ;)
::As a gun-nut myself, I find it a bit hard to know what parts should be wikified and have stubs written for them - so any help from anyone who isn't a gun-nut would be helpfull... I'll try to make sure there are no red links in the article if someone just wikifi any terms they don't understand :) [[User:WegianWarrior|WegianWarrior]] 09:24, 7 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:::Just think of any of the terms that you know that a non gun person would not. All of those need to be understandable from the context, and many should have articles of their own. But here's a go at some more that need inline explanations of what they are, and or a stub article.
:::*mechanism
:::*actuation
:::*chambered
:::*linjers - at least make it more clear that is the name for the ammo
:::*breachblock - should also be explained inline. For ex. "...operate the [[breachblock]], which is..."
:::*cartridge
:::*block
:::Great material though. Can you get a picture of one to add to the article? A picture of the rifle and/or a diagram of it with all of the parts labeled would be ideal. A diagram could be created by someone skilled in a diagram creation program. - [[User:Taxman|Taxman]] 17:31, Dec 7, 2004 (UTC)
::::Tried to make it a bit more easy to understand for a layman. A diagram is going to be harder.. must wait until I'm home from work at any rate ;) [[User:WegianWarrior|WegianWarrior]] 09:50, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
===[[Cerritos, California]]===
Some of this article has been borrowed from the city's website of its history section. Some of it contains a local's perspective on some of the changes in history... It looks okay, overall, but some revisions and edits making sure it's okay would be nice. Kind of like a large stub, kind of not... --[[User:AllyUnion|[[User:AllyUnion|AllyUnion]] [[User talk:AllyUnion|(talk)]]]] 07:13, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
*The landmarks section is huge, and questionably encyclopedic. Much of the information towards the bottom is Rambot data, with little or no changes made to it. It's a decent start, but it'd be wise to take heed from the Salt Lake City article below, as well as [[Sarajevo]] (a current FA, and by far the best city article we have) - those articles are a good guide to work from. [[User:Ambi|Ambi]] 07:36, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
** The only landmarks that could really be considered encyclopedic is the city's library, the Auto Square and the Pat Nixon Senior Center. Locally around California, the Auto Square is widely known. I have seen many cars sold from this particular auto square around Southern California. The city's library, has some reference to another encyclopedic library, plus it has a Smithsonian Affliation. But in all consideration, Cerritos is a small urban city, nothing at all the size of Salt Lake City. In relative comparison, there is less to focus and detail about. It's just my feelings is that it is nice to get to know people's hometowns and detail out information you wouldn't see in a typical encyclopedia. After all, as the saying goes here, "Wiki is not paper." --[[User:AllyUnion|[[User:AllyUnion|AllyUnion]] [[User talk:AllyUnion|(talk)]]]] 06:00, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
===[[Eastern Guinean forests]]===
Decent-sized stub. Comments and suggestions? [[User:Neutrality|[[User:Neutrality|Neutrality]]/<sup>[[User talk:Neutrality|talk]]</sup>]] 00:20, Nov 27, 2004 (UTC)
===[[Geography of Côte d'Ivoire]]===
Most of these [[:Category:Geography by country|Geography of... articles]] are pure CIA data dumps, so I tried to make one a decent article. Questions, suggestions, and comments welcome! [[User:Neutrality|[[User:Neutrality|Neutrality]]/<sup>[[User talk:Neutrality|talk]]</sup>]] 23:47, Nov 26, 2004 (UTC)
: Really good job, Neutrality! I found a couple nits, but they seem really minor -
:* "500m altitude" - should this be elevation?
:* This sentence should probably be recast slightly:
:*: The southeastern region of Côte d'Ivoire is marked by coastal inland lagoons that starts at the Ghanaian border and stretch 300km (190 miles) along the eastern half of the coast.
:* Lateritic and montane are excellent terms, but I had to look up the former... just wondering if this level of precision is relevant?
:* "party to:" It would really be great if these were linked to the relevant treaties (but how the heck you could find them I have no clue.)
: I have never seen a better upgrade of these CIA data dumps. Thanks! - [[User:Amgine|Amgine]] 03:06, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
:Good start, Neutrality. It'd be nice to see the last of the CIA dumped material put into prose form, which shouldn't be too hard. However, the best suggestion I can make is to take a look at [[Geography of Ireland]], and copy its format. The Irish article is amazing, and sets up a layout that could be used for practically any country. [[User:Ambi|Ambi]] 03:31, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
===[[Miami Circle]]===
After re-reading what I wrote, I have changed this summary. I am new to Wikipedia, and this is the first article that I have written that I consider close to 'complete'. I am pleased with the content, but I would appreciate feedback on all levels, from style and POV to content. I know that it needs wikification and no doubt some grammatical cleanup, which I will carry out myself following a sufficient break from the text. I know that the "Sceptic cranks and septic tanks" title is inappropriate, but it amused me to write though it's a bit POV ;-) I wrote this as I was rather surprised to find it wasn't mentioned at all in the Wikipedia, it is certainly a candidate for the most significant US archaeological find in recent times, though seems overlooked. Particular aspects I would like reviewed are content (anyone who is more familiar with archaeology would certainly be able to help with some of the technical aspects), and I have also had problems finding public ___domain images (I will be approaching the Miami Historic Preservation council if none can be found). The final comments I would appreciate are anything pertaining to a better approach I could have made to this article as a new Wikipedian. Thanks for any help, in any capacity. [[User:Pseudosocrates|Pseudosocrates]] 19:23, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
*The section title was amusing, but yes, does need to be changed for NPOV. 1) I would certainly contact that association anyway and see if you can't get some GFDL or acceptable Creative Commons licensed pictures from them. They may have other material you can add. 2) The lead section contains a sentence that I don't think it means what you think it means: "It is the only known evidence of a permanent structure cut into the bedrock in the United States..". You must mean before European settlement right? I'm sure there are lots of things permanently cut into the bedrock now. 3) As to general approach, you've done a great job, there are only two things I would suggest: one is a greater reliance on primary sources, and citing them. Did you really get all of that info from 2 online resources? Try to get a hold of primary sources and [[Wikipedia:Cite sources|properly format]] the ones you do use in a references section. The BBC documentary seems like a good start. Second would be to be careful for the structural POV. Your statements are generally all pretty good, but the article seems to offer criticisms and other viewpoints, only to refute every one of them. If they are really minority viewpoints, simply state that and find a good source and cite it. So basically, great work. Just do more of what you've done and Wikipedia will be a better place. - [[User:Taxman|Taxman]] 13:31, Dec 2, 2004 (UTC)
===[[Menachem Begin]] vs. [[Deir Yassin massacre]]===
I swore not to get involved with Israel / Palestine issues, but these two articles completely disagree over (what should be, with 50 years hindsight) fairly incontrovertible fact (if not uncontroversial). Were [[Irgun]] and Stern responsible for the Deir Yassin massacre? -- [[User:Gareth Owen|GWO]] 13:10, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Try [http://www.zoa.org/pubs/DeirYassin.htm this source]. Revisionist Zionists claim that it was not a massacre, not that Begin didn't do it.
Clearly, the Red Cross observer reported a massacre, and lots of eyewitnesses, quoted in the Deir Yassin article, say that they saw a massacre, but some of the Israelis say they legitimately slaughtered the entire village because it was armed to the teeth (but apparently not particularly good at using its immense firepower, since it only killed four Israelis). The Deir Yassin article, in a slightly muddled way, explains what some of the controversies are. The Begin one simply gives one side.[[User:Dr Zen|Dr Zen]] 03:52, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
===[[Autobiography (album)]]===
I need comments on whether the sections are unduly large. --[[User:Hemanshu|Hemanshu]] 11:07, 26 Nov 2004 (UTC)
*I don't think they're unduly large - I think it's more the writing style and neutrality, rather than any length issues. [[User:Ambi|Ambi]] 03:32, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
**Dittoed. [[User:Johnleemk|Johnleemk]] | [[User talk:Johnleemk|Talk]] 06:58, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
*Now that the issues regarding neutrality and writing style have been dealt with, at least to an extent (or so I think, anyway), I've renominated this article for featured status. Possibly the GMA quote in the second paragraph should be replaced with something, but frankly I've been driven to distraction by harassment in the last two days or so and I haven't felt like doing the research to find a suitable replacement. Hopefully I'll find a way to improve that paragraph, though. [[User:Everyking|Everyking]] 14:21, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
**If the article's not as best as you think you can make it, why renominate it? You seem to be very hurried — would it hurt to wait a day longer? As I've pointed out to you on your talk page, cooling down is a better investment of your time then continuing to stress yourself out. If you know the article could easily be improved further but can't do it now, why nominate it? [[User:Johnleemk|Johnleemk]] | [[User talk:Johnleemk|Talk]] 17:11, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
***Yes, it appears the disagreement regarding the article was much deeper than I thought. Fortunately, I've now proposed yet another compromise on talk that will hopefully be acceptable to everyone, and we can work from there. [[User:Everyking|Everyking]] 04:50, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
* Responding to the original request, yes I think that this article is unecessarily long. There is far too much detail on the chart position and sales that could easily be summarised, we absolutely don't need to know that the album rose from No. 19 to No 16 in its 12th week on the chart for example. (An unrelated issue is that the whole chart position thing is US-centric - what about the rest of the world?). It is also not necessary to list in detail every single TV show that she was on to promote the album, none of these appearance were ''''notable''''. The Beatles or Elvis Presly's first US TV appearances, or Janet Jackson's breast popping out on TV, that's notable, not that she sat down and brief chat with the show's host. I think that the entire Promotion section should deleted as not necessary, and also, are you going to keep updating this? It will end up 32K in itself, with all the christmas specials and future singles from the LP. I could go on and on, but I hope that sanity and concensus prevails. - [[User:Drstuey|Drstuey]] 05:41, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
**Yes, of course I'll keep working on it if they don't drive me away first, and if they'll actually let me edit the article, which at this point I frankly doubt that they will. The notion that a TV appearance watched by millions isn't notable is so preposterous that I have no response to it. [[User:Everyking|Everyking]] 05:55, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
***I look forward to the daily guest lists from ''The Late Show with David Letterman'' and ''The Big Breakfast''. The notion that a TV appearance watched by millions is ''a priori'' notable '''is''' preposterous --[[User:Calton|Calton]] 09:25, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
* Actually, another thought, since you, [[User:Everyking|Everyking]], are obviously such an enthusiastic wiki-ist why don't you set up an Ashley Simpson fan wiki somewhere where you can make the pages as big as you want and spilt them off as much as you want and include anything you want without people trying to edit you. There are plenty of free wiki hosting sites out there for example [http://www.seedwiki.com/ Seedwiki] You can easily transwiki the content over to there. cheers - [[User:Drstuey|Drstuey]] 05:48, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
**Because this isn't just some fun personal project of mine; it's providing information to the people, and that has to be done through Wikipedia. Although I suppose I should expect you'd want to get rid of me, seems everyone else does at this point. [[User:Everyking|Everyking]] 05:55, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
***''it's providing information to the people, and that has to be done through Wikipedia''. Well, no, it doesn't. --[[User:Calton|Calton]] 09:25, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
*I want to thank Calton for being willing to contribute his thoughts. For my part, I think the lists he describes above would be an excellent resource, and I have a history of opposing the existence of trivial lists. [[User:Everyking|Everyking]] 10:07, 30 Nov 2004 (UTC)
**And I'd like to thank Everyking for his willingness to embrace any position, however absurd, that allows him to justify his particular obsession. Or is it merely lip-service? Tell you what, Everyking, why don't you get started on those lists right now? I'll help here:
:::Just click, and fill in the rest. Easy to do, if you have satellite/cable TV, no? --[[User:Calton|Calton]] 08:27, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
::*Would you guys grow up a bit and stop being so insincere? Just try to improve the article as you can and let the rest go. You'll both be happier people and it won't waste so much time for the rest of us. - [[User:Taxman|Taxman]] 15:24, Dec 14, 2004 (UTC)
*I think if it means so much to Calton, he should do it himself. Anyway, I've made a fair number of revisions, additions and updates to this article, and I invite everyone to look it over and tell me what they think. I want to eventually nominate it again on FAC, maybe in a few weeks, but I want to be sure all objections are dealt with in advance this time. [[User:Everyking|Everyking]] 19:42, 9 Dec 2004 (UTC)
**Doesn't mean a thing to me, son: you're the one who claimed that appearences on talk shows/chat shows were ''a priori'' notable, and claimed that lists of guests were a good thing. So how about it son? Have at it...or were you being less than sincere, that you really '''don't''' think it's that notable? The term for this posting is '''put up or shut up''', just in case it escaped your notice. --[[User:Calton|Calton]] 08:11, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
It would be a mockery if this were to become a featured article. Begin with just this point. In the first paragraph, the album is described as debuting at number one in sales. Debuting where? Which chart? Later, the article describes Simpson's music as being compared with Pink's or Avril Lavigne's. But the sources cited do not say this at all. They say she aims at the same fans with the same (cynical) strategy. I would fix these points if there were any prospect of the fan who wrote them allowing any other editor to make changes to '''his''' article. Oh, and if I felt that it wasn't a steaming heap of rubbish to start with. [[User:Dr Zen|Dr Zen]] 00:46, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:It is said later that it's the [[Billboard 200]] chart, but I don't think it's necessary to say that in the intro. It already says the country. The NYT quote about comparing it to Avril and Pink essentially does say that, but I would indeed like to expand that a bit with another source or two. And haven't you ever heard that you catch more flies with honey than vinegar, Zen? What is it going to accomplish to call the article rubbish and a mockery? That just makes it more difficult for us to continue civilized discussion. [[User:Everyking|Everyking]] 03:28, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
====Why Peer Review Is a Good Idea Here, Example 1:====
From the Talk page, Everyking explains what he considers important, valuable encyclopedic information:
---Begin quote---
Which seems more informative? Compare another of Zen's paragraphs:
:"In [[Canada]], the album debuted at number 37 on the Jam Music charts in late July [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_072904_ALBUMS.html], and peaked at 11."
With mine:
:"In [[Canada]], the album debuted at number 37 in late July [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_072904_ALBUMS.html], rising to number 36 in its second week [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_080504_ALBUMS.html] and then to number 30 in its third week. [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_081204_ALBUMS.html] In its fourth week, it rose greatly, to number 11 (its peak), [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_081904_ALBUMS.html] but fell to number 14 in its fifth week, [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_082604_ALBUMS.html] where it remained in its sixth week. [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_090204_ALBUMS.html] In its seventh week, it fell slightly to number 15, [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_090904_ALBUMS.html] and then slightly more in the next two weeks: first to number 16 (week eight) [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_091604_ALBUMS.html], and then to number 17 (week nine). [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_092304_ALBUMS.html] It remained at number 17 in its tenth week, [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_093004_ALBUMS.html] before falling to number 24 in its 11th week [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_100704_ALBUMS.html] and then to number 29 in its 12th week. [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_101404_ALBUMS.html] It rose again in its 13th week, however, to number 23, [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_102104_ALBUMS.html] and rose further still in its 14th week, to number 20. [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_102804_ALBUMS.html] It then fell to number 30 in its 15th week [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_110404_ALBUMS.html], to number 33 in its 16th week [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_111104_ALBUMS.html], to number 41 in its 17th week, [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_111804_ALBUMS.html] and to number 46 in its 18th week. [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/prev_112504_ALBUMS.html] In week 19 it fell slightly more to number 47, before rising to number 38 in week 20. [http://www.canoe.ca/JamMusicCharts/ALBUMS.html]"
---End quote---
Every tiny factoid is precious, every tiny factoid is valuable, no matter what: it's like the Special Olympics of encyclopedia articles. --[[User:Calton|Calton]] 08:11, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
: Regardless of what disagreements you may have with them, please [[Wikipedia:Civility|treat others with respect]]; "others" include both fellow Wikipedia editors and athletes with disabilities. [[User:Matt Crypto|— Matt <small>Crypto</small>]] 08:43, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:: Oh, ''please'', get over yourself. --[[User:Calton|Calton]] 12:40, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
====Why Peer Review Is a Good Idea Here, Example 2:====
Some statistics:
As of 03:08, 13 Dec 2004, there have been '''554 edits''' (counting the original creation of the article), inflating the article to 38K in size. The article was created on 26 Jul 2004, 140 days ago, giving an average of just under 4 edits per day, though that was not spread out evenly:
*July: 3
*August: 16
*September: 13
*October: 40
*November: 356
*December: 125
Of the 554 edits, '''496 (or 89.5%) have been by [[User:Everyking|Everyking]]'''.
Thirty-two users performed the remaining 58 edits -- although since two of each were the leveling and then lifting of protection, I'll discount those, making 30 users performing 56 edits. Reene had the highest single number at 13 edits.
Of those 56 other edits, '''29 were reverted by Everyking''' (25 completely and 4 partially) -- over half of non-Everyking edits. This includes the removal of at least 4 tags (peerreview and clean-up), and involved at least '''four violations of the 3-revert rule''' (including an astonishing 8 reversions in 2 hours on 26 November).
These are the numbers as best as I could reconstruct them: I leave out the details concerning bad faith, insults, refusals to engage in discussons, professions of injured innocence, and lack of perspective regarding the notability -- or non-notability -- of this article and the details Everyking choses to insert. I assert that Everyking needs to step back and let go, because his behavior regarding this article and anything connected demonstrates his complete lack of perspective on this issue and on the general purpose of Wikipedia. --[[User:Calton|Calton]] 12:40, 13 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:All right, well, we disagree, Calton. Have you considered that the reason that I have made the vast majority of the edits is because, well, I'm really the only one here who knows much of anything about the subject, or at least the only one who has bothered to contribute his knowledge? Virtually all of my reversions were of content removal. I have left alone, and in fact welcomed, the content additions, which mainly occurred early in the article history with the addition of the infobox and then later on the table formats. [[User:Everyking|Everyking]] 07:14, 14 Dec 2004 (UTC)
----
Frankly, I think that the article needs to be rewritten from scratch. There is far to much superfluous data in there. Data and information are not the same thing. [[User:IMeowbot|iMeowbot]] 01:06, 16 Dec 2004 (UTC)
::::Nada for [[Salmon War]] material, unfortunately. Seems the only 'sounds'/inlets cat is in fact [[:Category:Fjords of British Columbia]], which I moved to coast. WIll probably move it back to general [[:Category:Geography of British Columbia]], and tag some of the individual fjords/inlets etc with 'Coast' or 'Interior' cats as applicable. Lots of close category calls today in your old neck of the woods, from [[Port Douglas, British Columbia|Port Douglas]] up to Pemberton country and beyond, tagged ''some'' with both coast and int cats, same with a few rivers, mountain ranges and trails which straddle. 'Bays' category contained both geographic and settlement put it back to general 'geo of bc'. A few more then ZzzZzz.--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 09:25, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
:I disagree and take offense. None of it is superfluous. In fact, it needs more info, and I'm continuing work on it. [[User:Everyking|Everyking]] 00:39, 17 Dec 2004 (UTC)
==English Names for Chinese People==
===[[College rowing (United States)]]===
I wrote the whole article myself and I think it is pretty decent. However I know [[Rowing]] isn't a very popular sport in the US, so I am wondering what makes sense and what doesn't. Any way you can help to improve the article would be appreciated. --[[User:Alex3917|Alex Krupp]] 04:31, Nov 26, 2004 (UTC)
*It's a good start, but there's quite a few things that could do with some work. a) the lead section could be longer, and could summarise the article more - at the moment it just states a few statistics. b) the history section should be in prose, as opposed to a timeline. c) Could the "A Year in Rowing" sections be expanded somewhat? d) the Rowing Conference tables are very large - it might be an idea to give them their own seperate articles, and place a summary of them in this article, per [[Wikipedia:Summary style]]. d) the National Championships section could also do with a bit of expansion. e) the sources section should be titled "references", and cited properly (which isn't my forte, so I'm probably not the best person to ask). I hope I'm not too harsh - it's better to get these things early, and with a bit of work, it would make a good [[Wikipedia:Featured articles|featured article]]. [[User:Ambi|Ambi]] 03:38, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
::These are all good suggestions, and I will start work on them as soon as classes end this friday.
Uncle G reverted your and Falsedef's edits AGAIN. Is there any way that his POV agenda can be stopped? It's pretty obvious that the article won't be deleted, so there needs to some way to get him to stop reverting everything that others write that conflicts with his narrow-minded view.[[User:Zeus1234|Zeus1234]] 15:50, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
===[[Our Gang]]/[[The Little Rascals]]===
...I did a lot of cleanup and fix ups on this one. The only things I think I need to do are to create stubs for [[June Marlowe]], [[Scotty Beckett]], and [[Eugene "Porky" Lee]]. I've also created a [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Our_Gang_kids Category for articles about Our Gang kids]. How does it all look? --[[User:B Touch|b. Touch]] 23:31, 25 Nov 2004 (UTC)
What a pleasant surprise! The article was deleted after all. Looks like my note above was premature.[[User:Zeus1234|Zeus1234]] 03:29, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
*Anyone? --[[User:B Touch|b. Touch]] 03:33, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
== maps ==
===[[Sonoluminescence]]===
I see a lot of nonsense in this article. For instance the mechanism of SBSL is largely solved I think, and does not involve the rediculous hypothesis of hawking radiation in any way. Physicists versed in sonoluminescence should review this article.--[[User:Deglr6328|Deglr6328]] 22:22, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
yeah, hey, if you've got maps for stuff around bellingham bay (Portage Island, Lummi Peninsula, etc.) i'd be glad to deal with them if you don't have time. i've got plenty of time to work on that stuff right now. Cheers! [[User:Murderbike|Murderbike]] 04:06, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
===[[Salt Lake City, Utah]]===
==Hereby...==
There are about 4 people who regularly contribute to this article, mostly locals. I believe this is a very comprehensive article for a city of its size and it would be great to have an outside point of view to make sure we aren't leaving anything out/assuming certain knowledge. Also, a review of its companion history article, [[History of Salt Lake City]], would be great. Thanks. [[User:JonMoore|[[user:JonMoore|Jon, Conqueror of Men]] | ([[User_Talk:JonMoore|'''Talk!''']])]] 20:46, 24 Nov 2004 (UTC)
{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
*I'd very nearly support this for featured status as is, but I've still got a few suggestions first. a) Would it be possible to move the top picture into the infobox? b) The culture, media and economy sections are very short, and need expanding. I'm not sure about Recreation and Sports - I'd like to see that section a bit longer, but the article is already quite long. c) The education section could perhaps be moved to its own article and summarised to keep the article size down, and the universities list could perhaps be in prose rather than list form. d) Would it be possible to rewrite the opening of the geography section and the demographics section in such a way that doesn't make it instantly obvious the material came from Rambot? These are all comparatively minor quibbles, though - this is one fine article. [[User:Ambi|Ambi]] 03:45, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[Image:Barnstar.png|100px]]
** I agree... the capital picture is very nice, but the infobox and the thumbnail subtracts from the layout of the article. --[[User:AllyUnion|[[User:AllyUnion|AllyUnion]] [[User talk:AllyUnion|(talk)]]]] 07:22, 27 Nov 2004 (UTC)
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Original Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | [[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] is hereby awarded the Original Barnstar for his extensive work throughout [[British Columbia]] related articles. Adding the new cats over the past few days has enabled me to see ''just how'' extensive that work has been. It is clearly an invaluable contribution taht extends to nearly all facets of the province. Also, for standing your ground, albeit colourfully, against such accusations of "hysterics" and acting like a "chicken with your head cut off", and being told to go get a blog, &etc. amidst controversies. The fact that you continue to contribute in the ways described above trumps any of these.--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer4]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 23:39, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
|}
Wow. Thanks. I now have two - one for CanCon, of all things, given I'm virtually a BC separatist, and a Bridge River-Lillooet separatist on top of that ;-) Should I put these on my userpage or what? Been thinking of overhauling it and archiving what's there; esp. since my Grand Recuse is about to start....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 23:49, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
* I've never lived in Salt Lake City, but growing up in southern Idaho, I've been there quite a bit, and the article describes a decent amount of what the city is like. It doesn't mention the music scene at all, which is a lot larger than you'd expect from a city its size. The picture of the bus overlaps some text, and needs to be moved down. I would like to hear more about how many churches are in the area, and a break-down of the denominations. Maybe more about the Mormon churches involvement in local politics, and what influence the LDS church has over Temple Square, and what impact it has. [[User:Celebes|Celebes]] 04:36, 28 Nov 2004 (UTC)
==Bornmann==
Congrats on that barnstar. I'm sure it is well-deserved. I doubt that anyone has added more BC content than you. Which is partly what brought me here. I was wondering if you saw the article about Bornmann in the Sun yesterday? "Liberals can thank 'Spiderman for exposure" from the Saturday paper, B1. I tought that you might be interested in adding something to our article. I was also wondering if you had any plans on cleaning up Hollywood North or runaway production which was in a pretty sorry state the last time that I saw it. --[[User:JGGardiner|JGGardiner]] 01:10, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
:Well, I've been in a certain other bloodbath lately; there's only so much I can stomach at times ;-) and I'm starting to feel like sisyphus with articles like that, although I don't think we'll see much in the way or targeted you-know-what in future; I didn't get a chance to see the article, which I guess was in the second section because I looked through yesterday's front page tonight looking for it; but remember to be fair it's not only Erik's article that needs work, Basi and even Justice Bennett (or Barrett? whichever) all need articles, as with the defendants and more on Brian Kieran; the tie-in to Marissen and all that; we can expect your standard rant-edit from potty-mouthed and/or politically upset British columbians like on other pages, but while I think POV watch is worthwhile I don't think we're going to see any more savage edit wars. Now, as for myself cribbing the news into the article, it's partly awkward because I was such a main combatant and I'm also as you know rather prolix :-| in the extreme; what I've done with other topics is to make a list of points needed to be addressed and ask someone else to stich them together in simple language ;-) The other side of my writing situation is that I'm going to be un-webbing in about a month and have a host of articles I need to amend, and only a few weeks to go (adventures await...), and tidying up the BC Wikiproject. I meant to save that article, and the one before it, but I was hoping the expansion-momentum might come from somewhere else; I'm good at seeing what's missing, or what needs to be put in context; and I'd be wary of my POV throughout if I was original-writing it.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 05:23, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
==Thanks for ideas and encouragement==
Hi Skookum, yes, I enjoyed working on the Barnard Express article and agree with you that it is high importance. Yesterday I added three fair-use images from BC Archives and I hope they stay as I believe the use is more than fair, after all wikipedia is a nonprofit research tool same as their site is. I wonder why BC Archives holds the rights to all those online pictures when Canada Archives freely admits when there is no copyright, and often on the very same picture? I don’t get it. But if those three pictures are allowed there are hundreds of others in the online BC Archives that could be used in a project regarding BC sternwheelers.
I’ve noticed that writing articles on wikipedia seems to be like trying empty the ocean with a bucket, you write one and a dozen more need to be created to link to it and so on… ad infinitum. This certainly seems to be the case with BC history: I was surprised to find nothing on Cataline or Simon Gunanoot for example.
Anyway, as to the ownership of the BC Express boats, only the two namesakes belonged to the company. Of the other ten, two, the Operator and Conveyor belonged to Foley Welch and Stewart who were the construction contractors for the Grand Trunk Pacific. Of the eight left, three, the Chilco, Chilcotin and Fort Fraser belonged to the Fort George Lumber and Navigation Company, who also held lots in the South Fort George townsite and used these steamers to bring prospective buyers to the area as well as contracting them to the railroad, survey companies ect… The Robert Hammond had a similar purpose and was owned by the rival townsite, Central Fort George on the Nechako River, which being less navigable didn’t have the service of the BC Express boats, which were too big, or the service of the Fort George Lumber boats which were their competition. An interesting aside: the Mayor of Kamloops and a party of other men in 1913 managed to get the government mail contract from the BC Express Company and were going to use the Robert Hammond as a mail steamer, but the plan fell through as they weren’t prepared for the challenge, nor was the boat, which was not powerful enough to keep the same twice a week delivery schedule from Soda Creek to Fort George like the BC Express boats could. Okay, where was I? That leaves four. The Quesnel was built by a merchant in Quesnel, perhaps in the hopes that he could contract/charter it out while saving money on his own shipping costs. The Charlotte was built earlier than all of these in 1896, just for the Soda Creek to Quesnel run, I would assume to serve the merchant and pioneer needs of the area. She was built by Senator James Reid of Quesnel and named after his wife, under the company he organized as North British Columbia Navigation… and that was as much as I ever noticed before. But, here’s the kicker, one of the three partners in the NBCN was Captain John Irving, another big name, and the other was Tingley, himself, who was running the BC Express Company at that time and had been for eight years. So, while not a BC Express boat the Charlotte had strong associations. The last two are the Enterprise and the Victoria and here’s where GB Wright comes into play, along with Thomas Wright, {brother?} they were the owners and operators of these two boats. The Enterprise was built first, in 1863, and was used between Soda Creek and Quesnel until 1871. But, here’s an amazing story, in 1871, the Wrights took her all the way up to Fort George, considered impossible before then because of the Cottonwood and Fort George Canyons, but they didn’t stop there and continued on up the Nechako to the Stuart River finally ending up at Takla Landing. Supposedly the Wrights took her there because of the Omineca Gold Rush, but it doesn’t seem as if she did any work there and was also abandoned there. By then the Wrights had built the Victoria which ran the Soda Creek Quesnel route from 1869 to 1886. And that’s all of them.
Categorizing them by ownership like this ie: railroad, private and Hudson’s Bay Co, {oddly enough we had no Bay steamers here}, seems to make more sense than going in chronological order as I did in [[Steamboats of the Upper Fraser River in British Columbia]]. I think I’ll go back and play with that, as it looks rather amateurish right now and I was wondering how to divide it into sections while maintaining a timeline. The same could be done for pages for the other areas you mentioned. These articles would be much bigger than the Upper Fraser or Skeena River, as those each only had a dozen or so sternwheelers during a relatively short era. In the south, there were probably 200 sternwheelers on the various lakes and rivers, over a much longer time span. The Beaver in 1836 to the Moyie retiring in 1957. Also many of which were famous: Moyie, Sicamous, Kokanee, Nasookin, Slocan ect…ect… and will need their own articles. Not to mention articles that would need to be made for some of the captains, builders and owners. One thing would make starting a little simpler, I was thinking of categorizing the provincial sections much as Art Downs did on his two volumes of Paddlewheels on the Frontier. Kamloops and Shuswap. Okanagan Valley. Arrow and Kootenay Lakes. Columbia and Kootenay Rivers. Lower Fraser. Upper Fraser, {which I noticed he called Cariboo and Central}. Skeena and Stikine River. He also touched on the Yukon, but that is another project in itself.
They could be called Steamboats of the {region in question} in British Columbia, giving everything some consistency. I’ve often thought that Sternwheelers of the… would be a better caption, but that takes out sidewheelers and doesn’t allow for anything that isn’t a paddlewheeler.
Anyway, last thing, your comment on monopoly route rights is interesting, because I think that did apply in some regions, especially when there was too much rivalry. Paddlewheelers owned by the HBC and private interests on the Skeena often raced and one, the Hazelton piloted by John Bonser, who later piloted our Chilco and Fort Fraser, rammed the other one, the HBC’s Mount Royal, during a race, and the other captain left his pilothouse to go get a gun. I believe the government had to step in and gave the route to one or the other before the situation got out of hand.
Our paddlewheelers also had rivalry, townsite versus townsite for one thing and BC Express versus GTP for another. When Charles Millar took over the BC Express Company he also showed some interest in Fort George and was planning a third townsite there and made arrangements to buy the Indian Reserve there. The railway was horrified, as that was their plan, they just hadn’t done much about it yet, and they had to give Millar part of the townsite that would eventually become the actual Prince George. It is highly inferred in the book A Thousand Blunders: History of the GTP in Northern British Columbia that the railway didn’t much like Millar or his company after that and deliberately built low level bridges across the Fraser between Fort George and Tete Jaune, to stop river navigation when they had earlier promised the BC Express Company that these bridges would have lift spans. Certainly Captain Bucey didn’t appreciate these new plans and when he was trying to take the BC Express up to Tete Jaune and found the way blocked, he threatened the railway workers with a shotgun.
More of this GTP vs BC Express rivalry was illustrated when the BX and the Conveyor raced in the summer of 1914 from Soda Creek to Quesnel. Oddly enough the deal was that the BX still had to deliver the mail, but the Conveyor didn’t have to stop at all. Nevertheless Captain Browne pulled ahead of Captain Shannon at some key point and then Shannon rammed the BX with the Conveyor. The BX wasn’t badly damaged. Needless to say, it was the BX that was declared the winner when they got to Quesnel.
Anyway, holy cow, I didn’t mean to run on for so long. I will keep my page updated with ideas for this province-wide steamboat articles project and will keep looking for stuff on Wright. I know he was a pioneer road builder as well as a sternwheeler captain.[[User:CindyBo|CindyBo]] 00:14, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
==May I remove tag from improved article?==
Me ''again''. I was just wondering if it was okay for me to remove the old needs improvement tag from [[Steamboats of the Upper Fraser River in British Columbia]]? And I don't know how that rating system goes, but it might be better than "start" now. And I finished a new companion page [[Steamboats of the Skeena River]] I decided the..."in British Columbia" is a bit of overkill. Would it be rated similarily?[[User:CindyBo|CindyBo]] 06:17, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
:Yeah, that's fine, I should have done so; normally those things disappear by random/browser visitors who patrol pages that have the templates, but if someone's done enough work to warrant taking them down, go for it even if you did the work yourself; I'm about to pull the one off [[Yakima War]] once I find out about it a bit more so can figure out if it's still POV or not (it really was, i.e. from the cavalry's point of view/language). There's a paper or book somewhere on the raftsmen of the Omineca/Stuart and Fraser Rivers, some content of which might be suitable here as still be freight shipping/travel. The Skeena's a great place to start another article of this kind; I just returned to the Burnaby Public Library a "Lost Bonanzas of British Columbia" thing which had something on a certain boat/strongbox re Kitselas Canyon; such books typically also have bits that can go in first Nations articles, in this case [[Kitselas]] (the people, as I remember the context - they charged a toll to transit their waters and were also known for being, um, a little on the tough side; can't remember how Basque puts it, has to do with the chapter on the ''Mount Royal''; the chapter on [[Brother XII]] in there is the most detailed I've seen...but he also has other steamship stories in there too...that's where I made [[SS Pacific]] from, and was going to do the ''[[SS Sophie]]'', the infamous/tragic sinking in the Lynn Canal that's the largest in coastal history). Please note re [[List of ships in British Columbia]] that I've linked the Upper Fraser article to the shipnames there; more or less suitable esp. because of the way you've written the article. I think you'll find that the boats on the Skeena, Stikine, Lower Fraser, Okanagan/Kootenay Lakes/Columbia River/Arrow Lakes weren't on just the one river, more like several; Skeena and Stikine boats had done duty on the Fraser, probably the Columbia, probably Puget Sound, definitely Inside Passage, possibly the Sacramento River also. So I'm not sure what you've done for the Upper Fraser is gonna work anywhere else; maybe the Middle Fraser (Boston Bar-Lytton) as I don't think anything there ever saw service anywhere else, other than those on the Upper Fraser and (maybe) Shuswap Lake/Kamloops Lake and those on the little lakes of the [[Lakes Route]] (not gonna be a list, there's only 3-4 maybe 5 on each lake...). What I'm getting at is individual ship articles is a better idea as a focus for particular-ship content, and the general article should be about the steamboats as a business/era; and say on [[Steamboats on the Skeena River]] there's going to be vessels that, as just alluded to, were definitely on the Fraser, probably ran to Skagway; that's why the [[List of ships in British Columbia]] was partly built, so that all those that served on certain routes, e.g. the Inside Passage, Kootenay Lake, the Lower Fraser/Harrison Lake, can be listed in context by ___location, and this is so those that were in more than ___location can be indicated easily. BTW have you joined the BC wikiproject. You don't need an invitation but if you'd like one I'll plop one on your userpage :-)[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 07:03, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
Finally got time to reply to this, we keep crossing paths all over the place anyway. I see your point about seperate ship articles, even when there is only a tenuous connection to a gold rush and even when they run on only one river and have no past or future like most of the ones in the [[Steamboats of the Skeena River]] and [[Steamboats of the Upper Fraser River in British Columbia]].
===[[Cissy Patterson]]===
Regardless of that, though, seperate ship articles makes even more sense because there are other links that will eventually be made to these boats, Collins Telegraph for the early boats on the Skeena page for example, not to mention the pages of the individual captains and all those great stories about the races, trips to Takla ect.. that could be main articles. Anyway, I rambled on about this somewhere else too, but I think the consesus then is: seperate articles for most, if not all, of the boats. Oh, and yes I'd like to join the BC wikiproject. I am a wikipedian in British Columbia and I think I had that mixed up with the project. I've gone to that page, but I'm still try to get a hang of all those tags and templates that are all over the place for everything, but I think I'm starting to get a slightly better idea of how things work around here. I'm sure we'll be talking again soon.[[User:CindyBo|CindyBo]] 03:58, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Would appreciate another set of eyes running over this, particularly those familiar with [[Washington, D.C.]], journalism, the [[Washington Post]], and the like. Ave atque vale! [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 19:42, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)
===[[Racialism]]===
==Just found..==
I am currently taking a break from contributing to articles, so I cannot attend to this myself. The article is undergoing very questionable revisions by Sam Spade. Some selected versions from the article's revision history to consider:
[[Great Bear Rainforest]]. Have tagged it. Not a fan of the name of course, pure invention in the vein of Salish Sea IMO, but thought you'd want to know of its existence (I didn't see any evidence of your passing through there). Later.[[User:Keefer4|Keefer]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 03:20, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
:Just read through it and what is there is wildly inaccurate in a few spots... wonder how this got in under our radar...--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 03:22, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
::Tawdry neologism yes, but they did a better marketing job. What a name encompassing the region in question might be, but I do submit there's been an effort to equate it to Central Coast in the same way there's the effort to equate Cascadia with the Pacific Northwest (or even, more pointedly, a preferred term for); likewise the Salish Sea but with a much less convincing sell-job and also the place is too much in people's faces, unlike "the Great Bear" whichis the size of New Brunswick or whatever; can't even come up with a single name for it, too, because it spans so many different bits of island and different reaches of water. Princess Royal is the mainstay of it, and the most important part (and amazingly rugged for something with low relief...) but despite the nice ring it's only that island, and it's very un-p.c. I have a similar bitch with South Chilcotin, which sadly has caught on despite being incorrect and incorrectly derived; yes part of the Chilcotin Ranges ''but not part of the Chilcotin''; it's gotten so bad adjoining areas to the south and east, even Lillooet, have been dubbed as being in the Chilcotin. "City geographers" I call it - "here, let's give this area a name as it doesn't have one". As someone I know up in Lillooet says about this kind of thing, re bivouac.com giving things names without any local context, the landscape "doesn't need names; it's what it is". There's other examples, but Salish Sea strikes me in the soppy category; so does Great Bear Rainforest, but that one we're stuck with now.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 05:53, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Racialism&oldid=5887716 19 Aug.], primarily by Sam Spade.
::::i.e. sloppy geography comes up; the article said it was in "southwestern british columbia"...it's typical of the fuzzy writing that's around in envirobumpf....I won't go into other examples but the point is the drawing of lines and pasting names on the map from a distance has always been a mistake-making exercise; and this area's designated outline is a political boundary like any other when you stop to think about it; just not that or the ruling politick, but they've gotten the ruling politick to acknowledge the term, which is ''something'' I guess.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 06:07, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
:::::Some swordfighting to come over the term's origins. I expect a lot of the contributors who created that article will be none too happy with it being labelled as a recently created marketing term, which is of course, what it is. But one that has sadly, imo become recognized by the public consciousness, if not precisely mapped out (which is what I'll try to establish through LRMP sources &etc.)--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 06:12, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
::::::Well like I said there's a need for LRMP articles also ;-| but in all cases of such terms, whether hyphenations like Tatshenshini-Alsek for the "BC Panhandle" (as I've always called it) or Muskwa-Kechika or "South Chilcotin" (a contraction of Southern Chilcotin, full name should be Southern Chilcotin Mountains which is what the province had it named for a while; it's the [[Spruce Lake Protected Area]] again now (Spruce Lake-Eldorado Wilderness/Study Area was its name for a while in the '70s). Dates of provenance, and who coined the term, are fair game. What are they trying to claim -that the name is "from time immemorial" or something? They tried to pitch the Randy Stoltmann Wilderness too; that's now the [][Upper Lillooet Protected Area]] and nowhere near the scale they imagined; and really 40 years too late to pitch; as it is the "South Chilcotin" has been being pitched for park status for the '30s ''and it's still not''. anyway, later....[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 06:19, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
:::Have a look at my comments on [[Talk:Great Bear Rainforest]]; added the template there and also to put the fly in the ointment the northamnative template; although if we do that then all LRMPs, if there are articles for them, should have them; well, the TCs and bands usually ''are'' part of the LRMP mechanism; much more than the RDs, which they're "outside" of and don't participate in.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 06:02, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
==SS Enterprise==
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Racialism&oldid=7324286 14 Sept.], primarily by myself.
Hi again, just figured I'd ask about the name before I start an article on this boat, which I'll do after I finish with [[Hazelton, British Columbia|Hazelton]]. I wanted to get these towns that are heads and terminus's of navigation on these two rivers done first.
Then I figured I'd do the ship articles in order, oldest to newest, by region.
[[SS Enterprise]] isn't taken, although I'm sure there are others out there, I noticed a couple online. So should I just use that or get more specific [[SS Enterprise (sternwheeler)]]?[[User:CindyBo|CindyBo]] 18:58, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
Oh, and do I put those wikiproject British Columbia and wikiproject Ship tags on the captain's and ship's talk pages too, as I start each one?[[User:CindyBo|CindyBo]] 19:42, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Racialism&oldid=7636413 19 Nov.], primarily by myself.
==For a laugh==
* [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racialism Current (22 Nov.)], by Sam Spade.
See [[Talk:Sinclair Centre]]. Think I need a wikibreak soon...--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 00:16, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
==Re Central/Northern Interior==
I, also, am the one who contributed every-single reference, which I now very much regret as it lends credibility to Sam Spade's very questionable revisions and deletionism. Should 'racialism' involve the current Racial Sepratist movement to such an extent, is perhaps a key question [[User:El C|El_C]]
I believe the Northern Interior refers to everything from Quesnel up right to the borders on every side, excluding only Prince Rupert as it's on an island. [http://www.for.gov.bc.ca/rni/]. Central Interior is definitely Prince George and its surrounding area, and then there are many other regions within the Northern Interior. I'm not sure exactly where the regional borders are, I think it depends on the purpose we're talking about, forestry, electoral, etc more than anything. So it's not unusual to see Prince George referred to as either Northern or Central, both are true, it just depends on how specific you want to be. I also read your comments on my user page about the towns along the GTP route, yes there are a lot of them, mostly forgotten now. I think one was planned for every five or six miles or so, either by the GTP or a land speculating company. I have some info on a few of them, can't find Birmingham yet. Quick and Hubert and a few other like that. Some were roadhouses, brothels or unlicensed hotels (or all three at once) and tough to track down.
And yes, I did start the page on [[Simon Gunanoot]], I didn't notice that it was on your page until yesterday, or the day before, when I poking around on other people's pages looking at user page formats. I didn't mean to barge in on your to do list, especially on something you have a lot more knowledge on than I do. I was wrapped in the [[Hazelton, British Columbia]] article which, of course, closely concerns Gunanoot, Cataline, Cline etc. I used [[Sperry Cline]]'s version of the Gunanoot events rather than some others that I've come across that seemed... wrong somehow. There are some wild versions out there, very contradictory.[[User:CindyBo|CindyBo]] 20:42, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
:All versions should be mentioned/cited, as much as possible; it's the whole point of NPOVism, to make sure everything is covered; in the course of pre-research on this it was interesting how much material there actually was, as well as conflicting bios. Even in wildly-wrong stories there can also be useful/relevant factual detail that's absent from others; so integrating verifiable facts as well as recounting false rumours/reporting are both in the ballpark.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 20:45, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
:I would like to note that I do not find the current three participants in the article to be sufficiently qualified and/or impartial for the task. I strongly encourage Peer Review from those participants yet to be involved in editing the article recently, especially those with some preliminary (or better yet, beyond) background with the subject. Thanks. [[User:El C|El_C]]
I noticed that too, in some of the more outlandish tales the dates were often right etc, where the sensible seeming ones written by people who were there had wrong dates or whatever. What's unfortunate is how even the local newspapers can't be fully trusted, some journalists made things up as they went along: if you look back on the local Titanic articles dated a couple days after it sank, it gets quite amusing, names wrong, everyone survived and so on. I'll dig up whatever references I can on Gunanoot and add them. There's an online bio too,[http://www.northword.ca/connections/Past_Issue/summer01/simongunanoot.html] that seems quite accurate, barring the Kitsegas error, but then it goes into some theories about Louis Riel and aboriginal resistance and everyone knowing where Gunanoot was all along... I'll add the reference to the article and leave it up to the experts, because I'm not sure what to make of it. I got in '''way''' over my head on that one.
Anyway, back to Central Interior for a second, I will amend what I said a few minutes ago, although Prince George considers itself to be the Central Interior, for some purposes it isn't,[[http://www.sierraclub.ca/bc/programs/education/ecomap/index.html]] and can go much farther south than I realized. Some of these regional lines are quite subjective, I guess.[[User:CindyBo|CindyBo]] 21:41, 14 April 2007 (UTC)
==About Mark Dalton==
I would like to note that I have found El_C incapable of neutrality and factual accuracy in relation to matters of racist and communist POV. I welcome any outside involvement which emphasises [[NPOV]], and would point out that since El_C's departure, the article has become stable and the neutrality dispute removed (not added nor removed by myself). While editing the page he was consistantly counter-consensus, and his departure appears to have achieved consensus. 'Nuff said. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam Spade]]
Hey, I saw it spelled "Jeramy James Sons" on the information page where he was arrested for something. Type the name into Google, and you'll see what I mean. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/69.137.135.33|69.137.135.33]] ([[User talk:69.137.135.33|talk]]) 21:54, 14 April 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
::I would question the POV ability of anyone who uses the phrase "I personally"... --[[User:62.252.192.6|62.252.192.6]] 22:47, 5 Dec 2004 (UTC)
::: While, I appreciate the support, Anon., please do not use proxies to convey your thoughts on this as it detracts from the credibility (sock puppet-wise) of our non-Racialist apologist, NPOV position. [[User:El C|El_C]]
:Consensus among three people whom, I believe, lack sufficient familiarity with the term beyond its use in the Racial Separatist movement. I would also like to reiterate that I find Sam's tactics to be highly questionable. [[user:El_C|El_C]]
== Talk pages ==
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Always enjoy running across your comments on talk pages. They're always extremely informative and interesting. I learn a lot, so thank you.
[[Category:Editorial validation]]
I'd give you a barnstar, but I'm afraid I'm not finding anything suiting, so this'll have to do. Cheers. [[user:RichMac|RichMac]] [[User_talk:RichMac|(Talk)]] 09:33, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
[[de:Wikipedia:Review]]
:Mine (above) can be from both of us, then. And of course, you're absolutely right.--[[User:Keefer4|Keefer]] | [[User talk:Keefer4|Talk]] 09:48, 15 April 2007 (UTC)
[[simple:Peer Review]]
==Birmingham==
I'll have to go get that book, because I do recognize the reference to Birmingham now, it's mentioned in Rev Runnals, History of Prince George. Fort Salmon still exists as a farming community of Salmon Valley and Willow City is a couple of trailers and two or three houses. I certainly envy that era their optimism. I remember reading that the GTP said that Prince Rupert was going to be much bigger and more important than Victoria because its Oriental shipping lines are 500 miles closer and all that. They commissioned Francis Rattenbury to build a hotel for there that would be bigger and better than the Empress and also wanted him to build Chateau Mount Robson, Chateau Miette and the Jasper Mountain Inn. A person has to wonder what this part of the province would've been like if any of those would've been built.[[User:CindyBo|CindyBo]] 01:46, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
:Direct answer: the downturn caused by World War I, from which BC never recovered, not really, is at fault. Likewise the grand days of settlement in the Thompson, Kootenay and Okanagan, as with the whole gilded age worldwide but here with a special wild-country charm like, of course, nowhere else, plus a self-conscious Britishness in some places like Walhachin and the genteel orcharding society in the Okanagan and spa-and-steamer society life on the lakes. Northern BC might have swung up more if Prince Rupert had turned into a real city (as if it had room, but neither does Vancouver; Terrace is more likely for a North Coast metropolis just because of available valley-floor real estate....provided it's more than 60m above current sea level I guess); consider if there'd been actual industrial/commercial development throughout BC, instead of just resource ''exports'' - all the spin-off industries and what comes out of that, which is greater metropolitanization and urbanization; could have easily happened, and of course has begun to in PG, Kelowna, Kamloops; but that whole Omineca-Prince George area, with all its space, looks ominously Los Angeles-izable in the long run, given current population/immigration trends. Lots of room for freeways ;-) Just kidding. But yeah, a lot of the dreamers and visionaries in pre-Great War BC had amazing dreams; if not for the War, many of them would have continued coming true...what a grand place this would have been...(instead of a fleeting memory of one).[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 01:56, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
:::Have you seen the little mini-chateaux built of timber; e.g. the [http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/www2i/.visual/img_med/dir_70/a_08541.gif North Bend Hotel], the *[http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/www2i/.visual/img_med/dir_80/f_04078.gif Balfour, British Columbia|Balfour Hotel], the [http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/www2i/.visual/img_med/dir_104/b_02927.gif Sicamous Hotel] pr [http://www.bcarchives.gov.bc.ca/cgi-bin/www2i/.visual/img_med/dir_81/f_08377.gif Mount Stephen House in Field]; I linked those on the [[Canadian Pacific Hotels]] article and on the Balfour and Sicamous pages maybe; don't think there's a North Bend page yet nor one for Field. Similarly all the CPR railway stations are highly photogenic, even the prefab/generic models. They don't build 'em like that anymore....the Prince of Wales is the largest of the style - timber-chateau I call it - but some of the others looked pretty neat/ the PoW actually looks a lot like the GN ones in MT come to think of it; Balfour and Sicamous were a lot smaller. I suppose [[Railway hotels in British Columbia]] might be a worthy topic, or another glorified table-list.[[User:Skookum1|Skookum1]] 01:58, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
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