Talk:Animal Forest and Haggis: Difference between pages

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[[Image:HaggisUncooked_CopyrightKaihsuTai.JPG|thumb|an uncooked small haggis]]

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'''Haggis''' is a traditional [[Scotland|Scottish]] dish. Although there are many recipes, it is normally made with the following ingredients: [[Domestic scottish sheep|sheep]]'s '[[Offal|pluck]]' ([[heart]], [[liver]] and [[lung]]s), [[minced]] with [[onion]], [[oatmeal]], [[suet]], [[spice]]s, and [[edible salt|salt]], mixed with [[Stock (food)|stock]], and traditionally [[Boiling|boil]]ed in the animal's [[stomach]] for approximately an hour. It somewhat resembles stuffed [[intestine]]s (pig intestines otherwise known as [[chitterlings]]), [[sausage]]s and savoury [[pudding]]s of which it is among the largest types. As the 2001 English edition of the Larousse Gastronomique puts it, "[a]lthough its description is not immediately appealing, haggis has an excellent nutty texture and delicious savoury flavour." (p592)

{{move|Dōbutsu no Mori|}}

Most modern commercial haggis outside of Scotland is prepared in a [[Casing (sausage)|casing]] rather than an actual stomach. There are also meat-free recipes specifically for [[vegetarian]]s which are designed to taste similar to the meat-based recipes.

i've updated the page and excluded what i can't ''guarantee'' is true, having the game myself. if anyone wishes to re-edit then of course feel free.

[[User:Kryss hon|Kryss hon]] 11:28, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

It is often asserted (eg. on the packaging of MacSween's haggis) that the dish is traditionally served with "neeps and tatties" ({{lang-sco|[[Rutabaga|swede]] and [[potatoes]]}}; these are boiled and [[Mashed potato|mash]]ed separately) and a "dram" (ie. a glass of [[Scotch whisky]]). However, it might perhaps be more accurate to describe this as the traditional main course of a [[Burns supper]], since on other occasions haggis may be eaten with other accompaniments. Whisky sauce (made from thickened stock and [[Scotch whisky]]) has recently been developed as an elegant addition.

I removed items which did not relate to the Nintendo 64 version seeing as there are other articles concerning the gamecube and ds versions.--[[User:Balloonguy|Balloonguy]] 22:51, 18 October 2006 (UTC)

== History and popularity ==

It should not be merged because all the other version have there own seperate articles

It's unknown who discovered and prepared this for the first time, why they did so, or where this took place.

The haggis is frequently assumed to be Scottish in origin, though there is little evidence for this. It has been speculated that the dish originates from the days of the old Scottish [[Drovers' road|cattle drovers]]. When the men left the [[Scottish Highlands|highlands]] to drive their cattle to [[market]] in [[Edinburgh]] the women would prepare rations for them to eat during the long journey down through the [[glen]]s. They used the ingredients that were most readily available in their homes and conveniently packaged them in a sheep's stomach allowing for easy transportation during the journey. Other speculations have been based on Scottish slaughtering practices. When a [[Chieftan]] or [[Lord|Laird]] required an animal to be slaughtered for meat (whether sheep or cattle) the workmen were allowed to keep the offal as their share.

== No longer a stub ==

Another theory, put forward by food historian [[Clarissa Dickson-Wright]], is that haggis was invented as a way of cooking quick-spoiling [[offal]] near the site of a hunt, without the need to carry along an additional cooking vessel. The liver and kidneys could be [[grill]]ed directly over a fire, but this treatment was unsuitable for the stomach, intestines, or lungs. Chopping up the lungs and stuffing the stomach with them and whatever fillers might have been on hand, then boiling the assembly — likely in a vessel made from the [[animal's hide]] — was one way to make sure these parts did not go to waste. (Dickson-Wright 12).

Well, it's no longer a stub, though I'd like some better sources then the ones I provided so keep your eyes open.

It should be noted that Dickson-Wright refutes the assumption of a Scottish origin for haggis, claiming that it 'came to Scotland in a longboat [ie. from Scandinavia] even before Scotland was a single nation.' (quoted in Barham 2005:54) Whatever its historical origins, however, the haggis is now firmly established as a symbol of Scottishness, probably due in large part to its having been apostrophised in the most glowing terms by Scotland's national poet (see below).

This article currently covers three of the four Japanese versions of Animal Crossing. This article now covers ''Dōbutsu no Mori'', ''Dōbutsu no Mori +'' and ''Dōbutsu no Mori e+'', which means it covers both Nintendo 64 and GameCube.

==Modern usage==

This article does not cover ''Oideyo Dōbutsu no Mori'', the DS version of the game, the Wild World equivalent. The only article for this is the Wild World article, which mentions it in the first line, but doesn't allude to it anywhere else.

[[Image:BobPurdieAddressingHaggis20040124CopyrightKaihsuTai.jpg|right|thumb|Recitation of the poem '[[Wikisource:Address to a Haggis|Address to a Haggis]]' by [[Robert Burns]] is an important part of the [[Burns supper]].]]

Haggis is traditionally served with the [[Burns supper]] on the week of [[January 25]]th, when [[Scotland]]'s [[national poet]], [[Robert Burns]], is commemorated. He wrote the poem [[Wikisource:Address to a Haggis|Address to a Haggis]], which starts "Fair fa' your honest, sonsie face, Great chieftain o' the puddin-race!" During Burns's lifetime haggis was a popular dish for [[Poverty|the poor]], as it was very cheap, being made from leftover, otherwise thrown away, parts of a sheep (the most common livestock in Scotland), yet nourishing.

Haggis is widely available in supermarkets in Scotland (and in some parts of England) all the year round, and the cheaper brands are normally packed in artificial casings, rather than stomachs, just as the cheaper brands of sausages are no longer stuffed into animal intestines. Sometimes it is sold in tins and you can simply microwave it or oven-bake it. Some supermarket haggis is largely made from pig, rather than sheep, offal.

Let me know what you think.'''[[User:TStein|TStein]] 15:28, 17 December 2006 (UTC)'''

Haggis is one of several foods (eg. [[pizza]]) that Scottish [[fish and chip shops]] serve deep fried in batter. Together with chips, this comprises a "haggis supper". A "haggis burger" is a patty of fried haggis served on a bun, and a "haggis baji" is another deep fried variant, available in some Indian restaurants in Glasgow. It has been reported that Pizza Express chain will be adding haggis as a pizza topping. Higher class restaurants sometimes serve chicken breast stuffed with haggis; haggis can also be used as a substitute for minced beef in various recipes.

== reverted dobutsu no more back to animal forest ==

Since the 1960s various Scottish shops and manufacturers have created vegetarian haggis for those who do not eat meat. These substitute various [[pulse (legume)|pulse]]s and vegetables for the meat in the dish. Since both the offal-based and the vegetarian haggis have wide variations in flavour depending on the recipe used, it would be difficult to demonstrate that the two varieties do or do not taste alike.

Decisions like what the title of this article should be and where it is going to be located and how wikipedia is going to refer to the Japanese versions of these games are not decisions made by one person. I have reverted the edits on both this and the ''Animal Crossing'' Template and I've requested that an administrator move this back to the ''Animal Forest'' page while a change in terminology and ___location can be discussed.

==Drinks with Haggis==

Please also keep in mind that this is in fact English Wikipedia and that that does take some precedence. '''[[User:TStein|TStein]] 08:00, 30 December 2006 (UTC)'''

As noted above, [[Scotch Whisky]] is often asserted to be the traditional accompaniment for haggis, though this may simply be because both are traditionally served at a [[Burns supper]]. Warren Edwardes of Wine for Spice notes that haggis is spicy and therefore recommends refreshing [[semi-sparkling wines]] to drink with haggis with increasing level of sweetness depending in the spiciness of the haggis: [[whisky]], with its high [[alcohol]] level, can exaggerate [[spice]] rather than complement it. [http://winewithhaggis.co.uk]. Since [[fish and chip shops]] sell large amounts of haggis but do not serve alcohol, it can be assumed that that haggis is frequently eaten in Scotland with the accompaniment of neither wine nor whisky.

==Odd facts and pop culture==

== Dōbutsu no Mori v. Animal Crossing ==

[[Image:hag.jpg|thumb|A large haggis.]]

Because food safety laws in some countries outlaw some of the ingredients in haggis (for example, [[United States]] law forbids the sale of any animal's lungs for human consumption), [[expatriate]] Scots and [[Scots descendants]] overseas have been known to engage in 'haggis [[smuggling]]' to obtain true Scottish haggis. At least one American company produces haggis for the U.S. market. The Caledonian Kitchen, a [[Dallas, Texas|Dallas]], [[Texas]],-based gourmet business, began producing both a [[Highland beef]] and vegetarian haggis commercially in 1999. Its haggis is in wide distribution throughout the U.S.

==Entertainment==

When I say see talk page, I mean see talk page, not revert edit because you think you're correct.

[[Image:Rabbie_Haggis!.jpg|thumb|A haggis on a [[Robert Burns|Rabbie Burns]] plate.]]

[[Image:Haggis scoticus.jpg|thumb|A <b>fictional</b> [[Wild Haggis]], ''Haggis scoticus'', next to a prepared specimen, as displayed at the [[Glasgow]] [[Kelvingrove Art Gallery and Museum|Kelvingrove Gallery]].]]

Haggis is an amusing subject for many people. Those who ask a Scotsman about it rarely get a straight answer. A common reply to the question "What is a haggis?" often goes along the following lines. "A haggis is a small four-legged Scottish Highland creature, which has the limbs on one side shorter than the other side. This means that it is well adapted to run around the hills at a steady altitude, without either ascending or descending. However a haggis can easily be caught by running around the hill in the opposite direction." (see [[Wild Haggis]]) Surprisingly, this humorous myth is believed by many tourists, and thus they are shocked — and possibly disappointed — to hear the truth. See also [[sidehill gouger]].

Many tourists are also duped (or nearly duped) by Scottish pranksters attempting to lead them on a '[[Snipe hunt|Wild Haggis Hunt]]'. [[The Scotsman]] newspaper's web site runs an annual Haggis Hunt [http://haggishunt.scotsman.com].

Don't change the name of article when there is likely to be contention without discussion, especially when that means changing how this game is referred to on wikipedia. No change is going to take place until discussion does and so far I see no one on this talk page but me.

Haggis is also used in a sport called [[haggis hurling]], throwing a haggis as far as possible. The present World Record for Haggis Hurling has been held by Alan Pettigrew for over 22 years. He threw a 1.5 lb Haggis an astonishing 180 feet, 10 inches on the island of [[Inchmurrin]], [[Loch Lomond]], in August 1984.

Now, in re the discussion that has occured via edit summaries.

Haggis [[juggling]] is an unusual competition that takes place at the Scottish Juggling Convention each year, with competitors competing for how long they can [[juggling|juggle]] three, four, or five large haggis.

Yes, ''Animal Forest'' is not the technical name of the game. Neither is ''Dōbutsu no Mori'', it's a transliteration for the actual Japanese. So the arguement is between an accepted translation and an accepted transliteration. The actual name of the game is not a contender.

'Haggis' is an uncommon surname, such as for the screen writer [[Paul Haggis]], known for his work on [[Million Dollar Baby]], [[Due South]], [[Thirtysomething]], and other film and television series. In names it may come from [[Old English]], meaning 'a woodsman's hut', and a Lord Haggis rode on the [[third crusade]] with [[Richard the Lionheart]].

Thoughts to keep in mind? This is Wiki English, think about who it caters to. I have no problem with the article mentioning that ''Animal Forest'' is a translation, but are people going to come to Wikipedia looking for "Animal Forest" or for "Dōbutsu no Mori"?? That's the first issue. And, a major part of that is the second issue--how this game is referred to in the gaming community. People know the name ''Dōbutsu no Mori'', but there are multiple incorrect spellings, the most common of which are leaving off the accent on the o and an ou somewhere in "Dōbutsu", and for the most part, the game is referred to as "''Animal Forest''", and it will most likely continue to be referred to as "''Animal Forest''" in the games. I think that trying to enforce this change goes against not only the other wiki ''Animal Crossing'' articles, but I think it goes against the terminology used in the gaming community. Using the name that is least often used doesn't make much sense and isn't very encylopedic. That's my two cents anyway. But I'm open to discussion.

A popular internet joke about [http://www.gethsemenerose.com/archives/recipes/Haggis/Haggismain.htm haggis marketing] discusses some failed attempts to make Haggis more popular. Other fun [http://www.cafepress.com/gethsemenerose/1398505/ failed haggis marketing] sites have since sprung up.

I'm not open to wild editing. Neither my opinion nor anyone elses is law on this article, and discussion is going to open (that means actually commenting here) and close before any change is made to any of the AC articles. '''[[User:TStein|TStein]] 09:15, 31 December 2006 (UTC)'''

Following his victory in [[The Masters]] golf tournament in 1988, Scottish golfer [[Sandy Lyle]] chose to serve Haggis at the annual Champions Dinner before the 1989 Masters.<ref>[http://www.masters.org/en_US/course/landmarks.html The Course]. The Official Site of the Masters Tournament. Last accessed January 8, 2007.</ref> It is widely considered amongst Masters champions to be one of the most unpopular selections ever served at the event.

:Simply have ''Animal Forest'' serve as a redirect. Official naming (or transliteration in this instance) takes precedence over fan perception and recognition. [[User:Combination|<span style="font-weight:bold;">Combination</span>]] 01:58, 1 January 2007 (UTC)

::I proposed the move. I'll put my two cents in on the discussion page. '''[[User:TStein|TStein]] 11:27, 1 January 2007 (UTC)'''

Haggis is also the [[stage name]] of comedian Tom Downs.

==Requested move==

[[Animal Forest]] → [[Dōbutsu no Mori]]

Haggis has also been made fun of many times in film and television. In [[So I Married an Axe Murderer]], Mike Myers's character says he believes that "most Scottish cuisine is based on a dare."

Since this move may affect multiple articles, I've created a discussion page for the move: [[/proposedmove]]. '''[[User:TStein|TStein]] 11:27, 1 January 2007 (UTC)'''

In ''[[Armageddon (film)|Armageddon]]'', during the [[NASA]] space readiness exam, one of the minor characters names haggis as his favorite type of food. He then proceeds to list all of the ingredients and how they are arranged. In closing, he turns to the NASA examiner and says, "That'll put some hair on your ass."

In ''[[Highlander (film)|Highlander]]'', [[Connor MacLeod]] ([[Christopher Lambert]]) calls [[Juan Sánchez Villa-Lobos Ramírez|Ramírez]] ([[Sean Connery]]) a "stupid haggis" and then proceeds to explain its ingredients and preparation. Ramirez is disgusted by this description.

In an episode of ''[[The Simpsons]]'', [[Groundskeeper Willie]] is seen selling haggis at a completely empty booth. He calls out, "Get your haggis, right here! Chopped heart and lungs boiled in a wee sheep's stomach! Tastes as good as it sounds. Good for what ails ya!"

''[[The Ren & Stimpy Show]]'' featured a Scottish character named Haggis McHaggis, voiced by [[Alan Young]].

The main character in the 2004 version of [[The Bard's Tale]] must fight a beast called a "Haggis Monster". The monster is made of discarded parts of animal carcasses that were buried in a ditch and then brought back to life by magic.

In an episode of ''[[Earthworm Jim (TV series)|Earthworm Jim]]'', when Jim's suit malfunctions from a loss of power, Jim and Peter Puppy hide in a restaurant that serves haggis. Peter is eating haggis and likes it. However, when he asks why no one ever comes to the restaurant, Jim tells him "because haggis is made from the heart, lungs and liver of a sheep boiled in its own stomach," and he is immediately disgusted. As a result, Peter's greatest fear is a Scottish chef and he now cannot eat haggis without getting sick, though he has been tricked into eating it on numerous occasions.

One character in [[The Curse of Monkey Island]] is named Haggis McMutton. He states that it's just a nickname, and that his real name is Heart, Liver And Kidneys Boiled In The Stomach Of The Animal McMutton. When asked if his parents had been expecting a girl, he replies, "Aye."

For a time, the [[celtic punk]] band [[Dropkick Murphys]] employed a bagpipe player, dressed onstage in full Scottish regalia and going by the name of Spicy McHaggis.

==Similar dishes==

In some ways, the northeastern United States dish [[scrapple]] resembles haggis, however scrapple differs in the following ways: it uses [[pig]] [[offal]] instead of sheep offal and [[cornmeal]] instead of oatmeal; it is a [[meatloaf]] rather than a sausage; and it is [[bake]]d instead of being boiled. As a result, the appearance and the flavour vary significantly. So the resemblance lies more in the fact that it is a combination of offal, grain and vegetables than in any specific ingredient or cooking style.

Other similar dishes include:

* [[Hogs Pudding]] or [[Groats Pudding]] from [[Devon]] & [[Cornwall]] containing oats and spiced pork offal

* Drob from [[Romania]], made from sheep's organs, mixed with spices and herbs and wrapped in the sheep's stomach (or rarely, in a thin dough), prepared especially for [[Easter]]

* [[Balkenbrij]] from [[the Netherlands]]

* [[Pölsa]] from [[Sweden]], made from beef

* [[Saumagen]] from Western [[Germany]], made with pork

* [[Slátur]], an Icelandic cooked sheep's stomachs filled with blood, fat, and liver

* [[Švargl]] in [[Croatia]] and [[Serbia]], made from pork

* [[Boudin]], an [[Acadian]]/[[Cajun]] sausage made with pork offal and rice

* Bopis from the [[Philippines]], made from pork minus the casing

* [[Montalayo]] from [[Mexico]], which is prepared from [[sheep]] or [[goat]] [[offal]] in a manner very similar to haggis

* [[Chireta]] from [[Aragon]]ese valleys of Sobrarbe and Ribagorza, and [[Girella (dish)|Girella]] from [[Catalonia|Catalan]] valley of Pallars, both made by boiling inside sheep intestines a mixture of rice and sheep offal, mainly lungs and heart

* [[Camaïot]], a [[Balearic Islands]] sausage related to [[sobrassada]] made from pork offal, coarsely minced, and boiled into pork skin from the leg

* [[Bahur]], [[Bulgaria]]n sausage made from rice and pork liver and heart

* [[Kishka (food)|Kishka]], a traditional [[Ashkenazi]] [[Jewish]] [[kosher]] dish consisting of a mixture of meal,meat and spices stuffed in a beef intestine or a sewn pocket made of poultry neck skin

* [[Kaszanka]] from [[Poland]], closely resembling haggis despite its very different ingredients of [[buckwheat]] and pig's blood

==References==

* {{cite book | authorlink = Clarissa Dickson Wright | last = Dickson Wright | first = Clarissa | title = The Haggis: A Little History | publisher = Pelican Publishing Company | year = 1998 | id = ISBN 1-56554-364-5 }}

* {{cite book | authorlink = Andrea Barham | last = Barham | first = Andrea | title = The Pedant's Revolt: Why Most Things You Think Are Right Are Wrong | publisher = Michael O'Mara Books Ltd | year = 2005 | id = ISBN 1-84317-132-5 }}

==See also==

* [[Saumagen]]

* [[Haggis McLeod]]

* Haggis is the name of the witch that conjures the demon "Pumpkinhead" in the 1988 horror movie [[Pumpkinhead]]

== External links ==

{{commonscat|Haggis}}

{{wikibooks|Cookbook:Haggis}}

{{Wikisourcepar|Address to a Haggis}}

* [http://www.virtualscotland.co.uk/scottish_recipes/scottish_recipe_004.htm Haggis Recipe]

* [http://travel.guardian.co.uk/news/story/0,7445,1093930,00.html Belief in the Wild Haggis]

* [http://www.haggishunt.com/ Hunting for haggis]

* [http://www.holistech.co.uk/haggis.php Haggis Hurl]

* [http://www.electricscotland.com/haggis/haggis_song.htm The haggis song] by [[Peter Sellers]] ([http://www.captainbeaky.com Captain Beaky Vol 1])

* [http://www.winewithhaggis.co.uk/ Wine with Haggis]

* [http://www.dhadm.com/index.php/dhadm/haggis_on_bizarre_foods_with_andrew_zimmern/ Haggis on Bizarre Foods With Andrew Zimmern]

[[Category:Scottish sausages]]

[[Category:Puddings]]

[[Category:Peasant foods]]

[[Category:Offal]]

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