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::: May be if you had more that 61 edits on this project you would know that we have policies, and not everything you do not like is nonsense.--[[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 11:28, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
:::: You're so full of shit. It isn't about my likes or dislikes, but about your and your clique's ridiculous petty efforts to abuse formal procedures to postpone the inevitable. You know just well as I do English language sources will cease to call the city both Dnipro- and Dnepropetrovsk and the only obvious and logical substitute for the old name is Dnipro. [[User:Cl|Cl]] ([[User talk:Cl|talk]]) 11:11, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
::: The city was officially renamed on the 16-th of May 2016 ([http://www.bbc.com/ukrainian/politics/2016/05/160519_dnipro_rename_vc Рада перейменувала Дніпропетровськ на Дніпро], {{
:::: Last time I checked, Wikimedia Foundation was not subordinate to the Rada.--[[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 16:24, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
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: I've assumed that missed something and has checked law again:
: {{lang|uk|"В офіційних документах, друкованих засобах масової інформації, картографічних, '''довідкових, енциклопедичних,''' навчальних та інших виданнях назви географічних об'єктів України передаються '''літерами латинського чи іншого алфавіту з унормованою державною мовою''' назв географічного об'єкта за правилами, встановленими спеціально уповноваженим органом виконавчої влади з питань географічних назв."<br/>...<br/>Географічні назви, встановлені згідно з цим Законом, є '''обов'язковими''' для застосування органами державної влади, органами місцевого самоврядування, '''підприємствами, установами та організаціями, засобами масової інформації,''' а також у навчальних, картографічних, довідкових, '''енциклопедичних виданнях,''' оголошеннях, рекламах, вивісках, дорожніх покажчиках, поштових відправленнях та інших сферах їхнього офіційного застосування.<br/>...<br/>Назви географічних об'єктів України як складова частина історичної і '''культурної спадщини''' Українського народу - громадян України всіх національностей охороняються державою.}}.
: Wikipedia is encyclopedia - and it's clearly listed in law.
: If this law is not enough for you - read Constitution
: {{lang|uk|'''Стаття 66.''' Кожен зобов'язаний не заподіювати шкоду природі, '''культурній спадщині,''' відшкодовувати завдані ним збитки.<br/>...<br/>'''Стаття 68.''' Кожен зобов'язаний неухильно додержуватися Конституції України та '''законів України,''' не посягати на права і<br/>свободи, честь і гідність інших людей. Незнання законів не звільняє від юридичної відповідальності.}}.
In my opinion trying to name cities based on their common usage is something as trying to rename [[New York City]] to Big Apple (because it's commonly used) or [[New Amsterdam]] (because it was name like this in the past). --[[User:TAG.Odessa|TAG]] 12:40, 20 March 2007 (UTC)
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|1800<ref>Eugene.com states that the population in the early 19th Century was 6,389, whilst Cheba states that this was the population in 1800.</ref>
|6389
|1811<ref name=DiasporaMerchants34>Kardasis, Vassilis, ''Diaspora Merchants in the Black Sea: The Greeks in Southern Russia, 1775–1861'', pub Lexington Books, 2001, {{ISBN
|9000
|1825<ref name=Cheba>[http://members.virtualtourist.com/m/tt/a4b "History" a Dnipropetrovsk Travel Page by Cheba]</ref>
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I have removed.
* {{
* {{
--[[User:Toddy1|Toddy1]] ([[User talk:Toddy1|talk]]) 10:07, 28 February 2011 (UTC)
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[[User_talk:Toddy1#Happy_New_Year_to_you_too.21|I have been asked to give an opinion about the photo in the infobox of this article]]. Although I am not crazy about both pics... I favor the current one since it captured the essence of the current state of the city better (a lot of new buildings being build there). I could not find a better picture on [[Wikimedia Commons]]. Personally I prefer montage pictures in infoboxes of cities (since [[Manchester]], [[Bristol]], [[Oxford]], [[Birmingham]] & [[Liverpool]] (you could argue that [[Dnipropetrovsk]] is Ukraine's Manchester) have a montage picture in the infobox. I have the feeling that the policies of Wikipedia are shifting towards putting montage pictures in infoboxes of large cities). — '''[[User:Yulia Romero|<span style="font-family:Script MT;color:orange">Yulia Romero</span>]]''' • [[User_talk:Yulia Romero|<span style="font-family:Script MT;color:blue">Talk to me!</span>]] 19:59, 8 January 2013 (UTC)
File:Dnipropetrowsk.jpg|Current photo: ''Skyline of Dnipropetrovsk''
File:Dnepropetrovsk 9850s.JPG|Previous photo till December 2012: ''Victory memorial at the beginning of Karl Marx Avenue overlooking the [[Dnieper River]].''
</gallery
== Demographics ==
Line 1,048 ⟶ 1,041:
===References===
<references/>
== Word on map ==
[//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dnipropetrovsk&oldid=prev&diff=695876671] Why does the name on the map have to appear [http://s28.postimg.org/bpn6gugml/many_lines.jpg with 4 lines like that]? I attempted [http://s13.postimg.org/c1mn4hw13/one_line.jpg to fix that], but you reverted it {{ping|TaivoLinguist}} you don't have an idea, do you, about how the name in the template appears on the map? <small>--[[User:Mahmudmasri|Mahmudmasri]] ([[User talk:Mahmudmasri|talk]]) 08:37, 19 December 2015 (UTC)</small>
:[http://s28.postimg.org/bpn6gugml/many_lines.jpg The map] looks just right on my browser. Do you have a problem with it?--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 12:27, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
::{{ping|Mahmudmasri}} You fixed nothing on the map, you changed the name at the top of the infobox by removing the Russian variant. By long-standing consensus, city names in the eastern part of Ukraine have both the Ukrainian and Russian versions of the name in the infobox. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 13:23, 19 December 2015 (UTC)
::: [//en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Dnipropetrovsk&type=revision&diff=695950163&oldid=695876671] <small>--[[User:Mahmudmasri|Mahmudmasri]] ([[User talk:Mahmudmasri|talk]]) 21:35, 19 December 2015 (UTC)</small>
== External links modified ==
Hello fellow Wikipedians,
I have just added archive links to {{plural:1|one external link|1 external links}} on [[Dnipropetrovsk]]. Please take a moment to review [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?diff=prev&oldid=698896256 my edit]. If necessary, add {{tlx|cbignore}} after the link to keep me from modifying it. Alternatively, you can add {{tlx|nobots|deny{{=}}InternetArchiveBot}} to keep me off the page altogether. I made the following changes:
*Added archive https://web.archive.org/20120425125011/http://www.ef2012.com/index.php/ru/rezervnye-goroda/dnepropetrovsk/jd-vokzal-dnepropetrovsk.html to http://www.ef2012.com/index.php/ru/rezervnye-goroda/dnepropetrovsk/jd-vokzal-dnepropetrovsk.html
When you have finished reviewing my changes, please set the ''checked'' parameter below to '''true''' to let others know.
{{sourcecheck|checked=false}}
Cheers.—[[User:Cyberbot II|<sup style="color:green;font-family:Courier;">cyberbot II</sup>]]<small><sub style="margin-left:-14.9ex;color:green;font-family:Comic Sans MS;">[[User talk:Cyberbot II|<span style="color:green;">Talk to my owner</span>]]:Online</sub></small> 22:28, 8 January 2016 (UTC)
{{Clear}}
== Current Mayor [[Ivan Kulichenko]].... ==
was elected in 2010 as an independent candidate; but he officially joined the ranks of the [[Party of Regions]] last July.<ref>{{In lang|uk}} [http://tyzhden.ua/News/56025 Мер Полтави вступив у Партію регіонів ''The mayor of Poltava joined the Party of Regions''], [[The Ukrainian Week]] (21 July 2012)</ref>
{{reflist}}
{{Clear}}
== City renamed to "Dnipro". ==
On May 19, 2016 the Ukrainian parliament renamed the city to "Dnipro" (http://www.unian.info/politics/1349664-dnipropetrovsk-renamed-dnipro.html), as part of a "decommunization drive". Should the article title reflect this? - [[User:Toothswung|Toothswung]] ([[User talk:Toothswung|talk]]) 09:02, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
: per [[WP:MODERNPLACENAME]] "For articles discussing the present, use the modern English name (or local name, if there is no established English name), rather than an older one." Dnipropetrovsk would work in the appropriate historical context, but as of May 19 the official name is Dnipro and so far, there is no 2016 scholarship or journalism to fall back on (though it's safe to say journalism will follow suit, and Google Maps and other sources of that nature have a precedent of following the new names quickly). --'''''BLACK FUTURE''''' <small>([[User talk:Black Future|tlk2meh]])</small> 14:07, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
* There have been some reverts to keep "Dnipro" entirely out of the lede of the article and this really shouldn't fly. Regardless how we handle the article title, the new name is the official name and needs to be in the introduction. --'''''BLACK FUTURE''''' <small>([[User talk:Black Future|tlk2meh]])</small> 14:14, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
**I've opened a formal discussion below. [[User:Brandmeister|Brandmeister]]<sup>[[User talk:Brandmeister|talk]]</sup> 14:19, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
:::Until page is move, the lead should reflect the article name. <i style="font-family:Sans-serif">[[User:Qed237|<b style="color:blue">Qed</b><b style="color:red">237</b>]] [[User talk:Qed237|<b style="color:green">(talk)</b>]]</i> 14:44, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
:::: Kyiv's article is still Kiev, but it still includes both names in the lede and all pertinent information on the alt names for readers. No reason to remove facts from the intro, even though we're deciding on how to handle the article title separately --'''''BLACK FUTURE''''' <small>([[User talk:Black Future|tlk2meh]])</small> 14:52, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
:::::Two completely different situations, that is about spelling, this is about the actual name. Lead should reflect article title until page is moved per wikipedia guidelines. <i style="font-family:Sans-serif">[[User:Qed237|<b style="color:blue">Qed</b><b style="color:red">237</b>]] [[User talk:Qed237|<b style="color:green">(talk)</b>]]</i> 14:56, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
:::::: Your reverts were very uncool. If it was about which name goes first in the lede, change that, or focus on the infobox, but don't just undo everything otherwise it just looks poor form. --'''''BLACK FUTURE''''' <small>([[User talk:Black Future|tlk2meh]])</small> 15:23, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
Just found a little tidbit, but the official new Russian spelling is now also Dnipro (Днипро) [http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2016/05/19/7108971/] so no alt spellings needed--'''''BLACK FUTURE''''' <small>([[User talk:Black Future|tlk2meh]])</small> 14:48, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
why can't you dumbasses understand there's no such city named dnipropetrovsk anymore? <small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/87.17.168.60|87.17.168.60]] ([[User talk:87.17.168.60|talk]]) 11:48, 24 May 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
I live here, and at the moment composing my CV, so I'd like to think, that my possible employer abroad can google the city, and at the moment "Dnipro" refers to a football club, rather than city. Frustrating. <!-- Template:Unsigned IP --><small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/91.231.54.8|91.231.54.8]] ([[User talk:91.231.54.8|talk]]) 06:59, 21 July 2016 (UTC)</small> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
== Protected edit request on 19 May 2016 ==
{{edit fully-protected|Dnipropetrovsk|answered=yes}}
<!-- Be sure to state UNAMBIGUOUSLY your suggested changes; editors who can edit the protected page need to know what to add or remove. Blank edit requests WILL be declined. -->
<!-- Begin request -->
The data of 2001 census is written on the page. There is a newer data of 2014 estimate on the page [[:uk:Міста України (за населенням)]], so the page Dnipropetrovsk needs to be updated. It is needed to change "Dnipropetrovsk is the '''third''' biggest city of Ukraine" to "Dnipropetrovsk is the '''fourth''' biggest city of Ukraine".
<!-- End request -->
[[User:Tohaomg|Tohaomg]] ([[User talk:Tohaomg|talk]]) 20:57, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
: {{done}}, see the above section.--[[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 21:00, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
== Protected edit request on 19 May 2016 ==
{{edit fully-protected|Dnipropetrovsk|answered=yes}}
<!-- Be sure to state UNAMBIGUOUSLY your suggested changes; editors who can edit the protected page need to know what to add or remove. Blank edit requests WILL be declined. -->
<!-- Begin request -->
The same as above, but in Infobox settlement.
<!-- End request -->
[[User:Tohaomg|Tohaomg]] ([[User talk:Tohaomg|talk]]) 21:24, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
:{{done}} — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] <sup>[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]</sup> 01:52, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
== Population rank ==
There is a mistake in the first paragraph. Dnipro is fourth largest city, not third. --[[User:Tohaomg|Tohaomg]] ([[User talk:Tohaomg|talk]]) 19:20, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
: [[List of cities in Ukraine]] provides numbers which say this is the third city. If you have different numbers pls provide a reliable source.--[[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 19:28, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
::There is a data of 2001 census in the [[List of cities in Ukraine]], but in the ukrainian page [[:uk:Міста України (за населенням)]] there is a data of 2014 estimate, so it is more actual. [[:uk:Міста України (за населенням)]] shows that Dnipro was fourth in 2014 and the third place was owned by [[Odesa]]. --[[User:Tohaomg|Tohaomg]] ([[User talk:Tohaomg|talk]]) 19:44, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
::: Ok, I see indeed that the 2015 estimates also place Odessa above Dnipropetrovsk. Please add a formal protected request template, and then I can correct the article.--[[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 19:53, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
:::: What is "formal protected request template"? --[[User:Tohaomg|Tohaomg]] ([[User talk:Tohaomg|talk]]) 20:15, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
::::: {{tl|Edit fully-protected}}--[[User:Ymblanter|Ymblanter]] ([[User talk:Ymblanter|talk]]) 20:18, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
:::::: <small>English WP rules prohibit changes unless a formal request is submitted? +to enwp's stupidities. I should start enumerating them somewhere. --[[user:Base|<span style="color:#860">ᛒᚨᛊᛖ</span>]] ([[User_talk:Base|<span style="color:#060">ᛏᚨᛚᚲ</span>]]) 20:23, 20 May 2016 (UTC)</small>
== Protected edit request on 22 May 2016 ==
<nowiki>{{edit fully-protected|Dnipro|answered=no}}
<!-- Be sure to state UNAMBIGUOUSLY your suggested changes; editors who can edit the protected page need to know what to add or remove. Blank edit requests WILL be declined. -->
<!-- Begin request -->
<!-- End request --></nowiki>
[[User:ManDrivnyk007|ManDrivnyk007]] ([[User talk:ManDrivnyk007|talk]]) 07:58, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
:You filled in the template wrongly. I have made it "no wiki" so you can see this missing bit (the bit between "Begin request" and "End request"--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 08:06, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
:By the way, this was [https://tools.wmflabs.org/guc/?user=ManDrivnyk007 ManDrivnyk007]'s first edit on English Wikipedia.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 08:09, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
== Requested move 19 May 2016 ==
<div class="boilerplate" style="background-color: #efe; margin: 2em 0 0 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted #aaa;"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[WP:requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color:red">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]]. No further edits should be made to this section. ''
The result of the move request was: '''not moved''' per consensus based on arguments in compliance with the [[WP:AT]] policy. [[User talk:SSTflyer|SST<span style="color:DarkSlateGray">flyer</span>]] 05:36, 27 May 2016 (UTC)
----
{{Not a ballot}}
[[:Dnipropetrovsk]] → {{no redirect|Dnipro (city)}} – Per [[WP:MODERNPLACENAME]] we shouldn't wait for the official name becoming common in sources. According to [http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=58016 the official Ukrainian Rada website], 190 MPs voted "for", 17 against, 20 abstained and 104 were absent. The decree was adopted ("Рішення прийняте") today, on May 19. [[User:Brandmeister|Brandmeister]]<sup>[[User talk:Brandmeister|talk]]</sup> 14:18, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
:: Just a correction, that was the first poll on the consideration for the simplified procedure, the actual vote was 247 for, 16 against, 7 abstained [http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/radan_gs09/ns_golos?g_id=7430] --'''''BLACK FUTURE''''' <small>([[User talk:Black Future|tlk2meh]])</small> 14:42, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
:::Yep, thanks. [[User:Brandmeister|Brandmeister]]<sup>[[User talk:Brandmeister|talk]]</sup> 14:46, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. The official place name from today on is Dnipro, not Dnipropetrovsk. The name change was approved today, effective immediately: see http://www.rferl.org/content/ukraine-renames-dnipropetrovsk-dnipro/27745215.html or http://www.unian.info/politics/1349664-dnipropetrovsk-renamed-dnipro.html for English-language sources. There is no reason to consider that former name will be used instead of current name as English-language sources seem to respect official Ukrainian place name changes: even in case of recent name changes like [[Bakhmut]] or [[Chornomorsk]] name changes are used in newer sources (like [http://www.osce.org/ukraine-smm/235586 OSCE for Bakhmut] or [http://www.financialobserver.eu/cse-and-cis/ukraine/ukraine-joins-the-silk-road/ Financial Observer for Chornomorsk]), while older name changes are consistently used in sources with hardly any mention of older names (like [[Sviatohirsk]], consistently used in [https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=R7xEAwAAQBAJ&pg=PT494&dq=Sviatohirsk&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiT7YLKtubMAhUHuhoKHSOADV8Q6AEIMDAD#v=onepage&q=Sviatohirsk&f=false Lonely Planet], [http://www.coe.int/en/web/kyiv/-/launching-project-activities-in-donetsk-region-with-a-seminar-in-sviatohirsk-on-court-protection-of-internally-displaced-persons-current-challenges-an Council of Europe] or [http://www.unicef.org/ukraine/media_27827.htm UNICEF]) — [[User:NickK|NickK]] ([[User talk:NickK|talk]]) 15:17, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
* '''Support''' - Name officially changed, article should reflect contemporary use. Obviously use Dnipropetrovsk for historical context, but this is about today forward. --'''''BLACK FUTURE''''' <small>([[User talk:Black Future|tlk2meh]])</small> 15:20, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. Official name: Dnipro.--[[User:Cyve|Cyve]] ([[User talk:Cyve|talk]]) 16:38, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. It is too soon to make this change. Changes in the city name should be [[WP:V|verifiable]] in [[WP:RS|independent secondary reliable sources]]. The outpourings of the Rada are primary sources. In addition, this is English language Wikipedia - what matters is what people call the city in English. This is not within the gift of the Rada. None of us have any idea whether this new name will stick; nor do we have any idea whether it will be used in English.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 17:38, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
:: Tod, how is widely reported news of a public law a primary source? The article itself cites (or cited prior to the reverts) the UNIAN/Pravda/RFERL articles on it, plus KP covered it [https://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/verkhovna-rada-renames-dnipropetrovsk-as-dnipro-414096.html here] --'''''BLACK FUTURE''''' <small>([[User talk:Black Future|tlk2meh]])</small> 17:44, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
:::Those sources are articles simply reporting the Rada action. They are not articles about other topics which use the new name. Reports about the Rada action are not examples of the use of the name in common English usage. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 14:02, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. Absolutely--[[User:Andriy.v|Andriy.v]] ([[User talk:Andriy.v|talk]]) 17:41, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. Dnipro is now the official name. Toddy, there's no reason to believe that the English-language media will reject it. It's not like the city is as famous as Kiev. [[User:Hergilei|Hergilei]] ([[User talk:Hergilei|talk]]) 18:05, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. Dnipro is now the official name of the city, it isn't a matter of choice and how people prefer to call the city. '''[[User:A.h. king|<span style="font-family:Script MT;color:blue">A.h. king</span>]]''' • [[User_talk:A.h. king|<span style="font-family:Script MT;color:yellow">Talk to me!</span>]] 20:28, 19 May 2016 (UTC)
* '''Comment'''. Toddy is right that what matters is not the will of the Rada, but English usage because this is the English Wikipedia. We've gone over this monthly for years at [[Kiev]] and [[Odessa]]. If a city in Ukraine has a [[WP:COMMONNAME|common English name]], then we use it and don't really care what the Rada or Ukrainian diaspora think. All that matters is what '''''English speakers''''' call it. But that being said, it's also the case that there are hundreds of places in Ukraine that are virtually never mentioned in English media or literature. When they are mentioned, it is usually in connection with WWII and then the Russian form of the name is used (in some cases the Polish form) and not the Ukrainian one. Dnipro(petrovsk) falls into that category. I've only seen one book on the city in English ("Rock and Roll in the Rocket City") and it's about the Soviet era, so the Russian Dniepropetrovsk is consistently used. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 03:24, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
:::Kiev and Odessa is largely a different case because they have not been officially renamed, unlike Dnipropetrovsk. The only issue is whether the Rada has the authority to rename cities, seemingly it does. [[User:Brandmeister|Brandmeister]]<sup>[[User talk:Brandmeister|talk]]</sup> 07:40, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
::::No. That's '''''not''''' the issue. The Rada's action makes zero difference to the English Wikipedia per [[WP:COMMONNAME]] and [[Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_%28geographic_names%29#Use_modern_names]], which are the governing rules for Wikipedia. The latter specifically states that official changes are not instantaneous. That's why [[Kiev]] and [[Odessa]] are not "Kyiv" and "Odesa" (and why it's [[Chernobyl]] as well). We consider other factors in Wikipedia to be more important. Rather than just blindly parroting, "But the Rada says so", why aren't we looking at other factors and making an intelligent decision? --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 13:46, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
:::::I wonder what other factors can be and how can we write about it. Of course we can find some ignorant sources that will still use an old name (for example, an Irish travel website still offers travel from [http://www.goeuro.ie/travel/dublin/voroshilovgrad Dublin to Voroshilovgrad], even those the city was renamed before this website appeared, but probably no one travelled from Dublin to Voroshilovgrad/Luhansk since 1991), but how can we distinguish an ignorant source and a source that knows about the rename but still ignores it? Also, how shall we write the lede of the article in this case: something like ''Dnipropetrovsk is the former name of the city nowadays known as Dnipro''? In general I would be interested in an example where a name change happened but the article was not renamed. I looked at [[Denali]] case, but the article was renamed about an hour after the announcement, even though English usage could not change within an hour. I also looked at [[Staines-upon-Thames]] case, but the article was renamed 8 minutes after the official name change. I simply could not find any example outside India and South Africa (where English names were replaced with non-English names) of a name change that would not be shown on Wikipedia immediately — [[User:NickK|NickK]] ([[User talk:NickK|talk]]) 21:01, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
* Many of the Russian and Ukrainian [[grammatical case]] forms of "Dnepro" (city) and "Dnepr" (river) are the same; we will see how long before this confusion in usage causes disambiguatory name change. [[User:Anthony Appleyard|Anthony Appleyard]] ([[User talk:Anthony Appleyard|talk]]) 04:55, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
*:In Ukrainian Dnipro as a city and Dnipro as a river have completely identical grammatical case forms. Saying that it will lead to a name change is very [[WP:CRYSTAL]]. There were numerous new names proposed: from [https://meduza.io/en/news/2015/12/30/dnipropetrovsk-renames-itself-dnipropetrovsk renaming Dnipropetrovsk to Dnipropetrovsk] to weird proposals like [http://kiis.com.ua/?lang=eng&cat=reports&id=545&page=6 New Kodak]. The Dnipro option was chosen, and Wikipedia is not a place to speculate whether any other proposal will succeed later — [[User:NickK|NickK]] ([[User talk:NickK|talk]]) 09:00, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
*::[[Kodak Fortress|This]] is what Kodak is about.--[[Special:Contributions/31.16.65.191|31.16.65.191]] ([[User talk:31.16.65.191|talk]]) 15:54, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. New official name of the city. Media in English [https://www.kyivpost.com/article/content/ukraine-politics/verkhovna-rada-renames-dnipropetrovsk-as-dnipro-414096.html confirm it]. --[[User:Ivasykus|Ivasykus]] ([[User talk:Ivasykus|talk]]) 08:35, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
:::Finally someone looking at evidence other than "The Rada says so." This is a start, but the article isn't as strong a piece of evidence since the article itself is about the name change. Has anyone seen an article in English about Dnipro that isn't about the name change, but uses "Dnipro"? That's the kind of evidence that will convince the voices of caution here. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 13:51, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. It is not a difference in mostly spelling like with Kyiv and Odesa; but a full name change so there is no reason to think it would not be universally adopted. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/110.142.79.165|110.142.79.165]] ([[User talk:110.142.79.165|talk]]) 10:12, 20 May 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::It took time for Burma to become Myanmar in English. An official change of name is not necessarily instantaneous in English usage. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 13:54, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
:::Name of the country or its capital frequently appears on world maps, drop down lists and other places therefore country and capital names can be considered to be part of common knowledge. So it is possible to argue that English speakers keep using old name despite the official change but a city of Dnipro level is unlikely to appear in many places if in any at all so it is possible to argue that there cannot be a commonly used English name for a city like this. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/110.142.79.165|110.142.79.165]] ([[User talk:110.142.79.165|talk]]) 13:11, 21 May 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::::Don't they have books in Australia? Of course books spell the city Yekaterinoslaf or Dnepropetrovsk. So maybe that is why you did not recognise it.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 13:29, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
::::: [http://blogs-images.forbes.com/trevornace/files/2016/02/political-map-world-1200x813.jpg Here] is a common world map to back my point, out of Ukrainian cities only Kyiv spelled Kiev is on it. <small class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/110.142.79.165|110.142.79.165]] ([[User talk:110.142.79.165|talk]]) 14:49, 22 May 2016 (UTC)</small><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
*'''Support'''. Also the Russian WP has changed to the new [Russian] name "Днепр". --[[User:Bruzaholm|Bruzaholm]] ([[User talk:Bruzaholm|talk]]) 13:57, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
::Unless English is the language of the Russian WP, then it's irrelevant here. Only '''''English''''' usage matters here per [[WP:COMMONNAME]]. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 14:06, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. Based on the news sources above. Regarding the name change from Burma to Myanmar, it took a while because the name change occurred under a military junta in which many political and opposition groups object to (they saw the military government lacking legitimacy). [[User:Ssbbplayer|Ssbbplayer]] ([[User talk:Ssbbplayer|talk]]) 14:03, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
::But Wikipedia did not change because English usage did not change. That's the point. And the articles so far cited are articles about the name change itself, not articles that demonstrate that the name change has worked its way into English usage. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 14:06, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
*'''Support'''. Strange, that it needs to make such kind of request--[[User:Noel baran|Noel baran]] ([[User talk:Noel baran|talk]]) 14:51, 20 May 2016 (UTC)--[[User:Noel baran|Noel baran]] ([[User talk:Noel baran|talk]]) 14:51, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
*'''Support'''––[[User:Geohem|Geohem]] ([[User talk:Geohem|talk]]) 17:35, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
*'''Support'''--[[User:Trydence|Trydence]] ([[User talk:Trydence|talk]]) 20:16, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
*'''Support''' - with the law or without it, people already use the new name --[[User:Tohaomg|Tohaomg]] ([[User talk:Tohaomg|talk]]) 22:00, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
*'''Support'''-- [[User:GWA88|GWA88]] ([[User talk:GWA88|talk]]) 23:57, 20 May 2016 (UTC)
*'''Support'''-- --[[User:Lohengrin|Lohengrin]] ([[User talk:Lohengrin|talk]]) 06:34, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
*'''Support'''-- --[[User:Bouzinac|Bouzinac]] ([[User talk:Bouzinac|talk]]) [[User:Bouzinac|Bouzinac]] ([[User talk:Bouzinac|talk]]) 15:42, 21 May 2016 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. Wikipedia follows the [[WP:COMMONNAME]] policy, under which it is mostly irrelevant what the official name is ({{Tq|Wikipedia does not necessarily use the subject's "official" name as an article title}}). What is relevant is the usage in reliable English language sources, and I still do not see any evidence that "Dnipro" is a common name in English language sources. Those who argue for renaming say that "{{tq|there is no reason to think it would not be universally adopted}}". But, Wikipedia should not try to predict the future (see [[WP:CRYSTAL]]). We look into already existing reliable sources to identify the commonly used name, we should not try to predict what the commonly used name will be in the future. So, there is not policy-based reason to rename this article (yet). '''[[User:Vanjagenije|<span style="color:#008B8B;">Vanjagenije</span>]] [[User talk:Vanjagenije|<span style="color:#F4A460;">(talk)</span>]]''' 14:29, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
*:[[WP:CRYSTAL]] works both ways here: keeping Dnipropetrovsk as the name of the article means that we predict that the new name will be never used in English-reason sources. Still, in a similar case (McKinley/Denali) this question did not arise. Why should we speculate that the new name will be basically ignored? — [[User:NickK|NickK]] ([[User talk:NickK|talk]]) 16:18, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
* '''Support'''. And just to prevent all kinds of speculation in "common" names which I saw in Kyiv article - for all Ukrainians call it by long DniproPETROVSK name is not common for decades already, saying this as person who lives in this city and who knows a lot of people in Ukraine. [[User:Sandric|Sandric]] ([[User talk:Sandric|talk]]) 18:38, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
* '''Support'''-- --[[User:Neptune777|Neptune777]] ([[User talk:Neptune777|talk]]) 22:42, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
* I '''support''' renaming but '''not now'''. Decree is not signed yet, and voting results are [http://www.pravda.com.ua/news/2016/05/19/7108958/ protested] now by some parliamentary members. Decree maybe signed and deposited after the voting for decree project [http://w1.c1.rada.gov.ua/pls/zweb2/webproc4_1?pf3511=59162 3864-П]. So renaming is not in act now.--[[User:Ahonc|'''<span style="color:purple;">''Anatoliy''</span>''']] ([[User talk:Ahonc|<span style="color:indigo; font-family:Verdana;">Talk</span>]]) 20:57, 22 May 2016 (UTC)
:: You're right, it's not official yet but even without that formality, city workers have tore down the sign on the city entrance already. Looking set in stone (literally). [http://uatoday.tv/society/dnipro-petrovsk-no-more-city-sign-undergoes-quick-make-over-660464.html] --'''''BLACK FUTURE''''' <small>([[User talk:Black Future|tlk2meh]])</small> 17:45, 24 May 2016 (UTC)
:::It doesn't matter if the whole population of Dnipro (including my aged in-laws) turns out and spells Dnipro on the banks of the river in blue and yellow shirts, that's not '''''English''''' usage. --[[User:TaivoLinguist|Taivo]] ([[User talk:TaivoLinguist|talk]]) 17:48, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
* '''Support''':
** There is no evidence that this city has a common English name because
**# Nothing of worldwide importance happens in this city really.
**# Before 1991 the most common name was Dn'''e'''propetrovsk (and it's still in use). While Kiev ''didn't change'' to Kyiv, Dnepropetrovsk ''did change'' to Dnipropetrovsk.
**# How often this city is mentioned in the English language sources (except for English versions of sites related to this city)?
** There is evidence that city renames in Ukraine sanctioned by a legitimate government are adopted in English language: We have [[Rivne]] and [[Luhansk]] (not Rovno or Voroshilovgrad).
** So, based on several quoted policies I think that:
**# [[WP:MODERNPLACENAME]] can be used as it was renamed by a legitimate government.
**# [[WP:COMMONNAME]] cannot be used because it's based on assumption that common usage won't change without reasonable backing evidence.
**# [[WP:CRYSTAL]] can be used in support as "1. Individual scheduled or expected future events".
**—[[User:Drundia|Drundia]] ([[User talk:Drundia|talk]]) 01:15, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
::: [[File:Smiley.png|15px]] Your view that nothing of worldwide importance happens in Dnepropetrovsk is mistaken. Have you heard of the [[Cuban Missile Crisis]]? The missiles were from Dnepropetrovsk. Dnepropetrovsk designed and manufactured many of the Soviet Union's [[ICBM]]s; rockets from Dnepropetrovsk took an important role in the Soviet space programme. The city is also mentioned in accounts of the what Western People call the Eastern Front of World War II.--<span style="font-family:Monotype Corsiva;font-size:10pt;color:#000000">[[User:Toddy1| Toddy1]] [[User talk:Toddy1|(talk)]]</span> 06:30, 23 May 2016 (UTC)
* '''Oppose''' – [[WP:TOOSOON]] for common usage; it took years until [[Mumbai]] replaced Bombay in English and other languages. Besides, the article itself says that the name change is controversial for the local population including the city mayor. Who knows if they'll change it back next month? {{p}} — [[User:JFG|JFG]] <sup>[[User talk:JFG|talk]]</sup> 15:05, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
*'''Oppose'''. When it becomes commonly known as Dnipro then we can change it. Until then it's commonly known by its longer name. It is utterly irrelevant what its official name may be or what Ukrainians call it. All that matters is what it's called in reliable English-language sources (discounting those published in Ukraine itself, of course). -- [[User:Necrothesp|Necrothesp]] ([[User talk:Necrothesp|talk]]) 15:14, 25 May 2016 (UTC)
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