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{{old move|date=16 March 2025|from=Numerical control|destination=Computer numerical control|result=moved|link=Special:Permalink/1281478020#Requested move 16 March 2025}}
{{Archive box|[[/Archive 1|Archive 1]]}}
== Numerical control manufacturers ==▼
I recently added a manufacturer list to the NC page. This list is valuable to the page because it gives readers a good example of what companies produce what types of NC machines. The list adds reference to major companies and how their machines differ from other manufacturers machinery. This inclusion is important to the page for readers to compare companies machines and their technology. The addition of new references gives a base to the new content and the overall article.[[User:BrandonL21|BrandonL21]] ([[User talk:BrandonL21|talk]]) 00:21, 12 June 2020 (UTC)▼
== Reference Source ==
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:: For the record, I removed the ''-ed'', not because it can be called "incorrect" so much as "deprecated by those in the industry". Which is more or less what [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Numerical_control&diff=383559720&oldid=382868802 this diff] was also getting at (preferred usage), plus or minus the notion of "correct". — [[User:Three-quarter-ten|¾-10]] 23:31, 26 January 2011 (UTC)
::Neither is correct per ISO.
::ISO 2806 provides the international technical definitions.
::2.1.1 '''numerical control NC''' - automatic control of a process performed by a device that makes use of numeric data introduced while the operation is in progress.
::2.1.2 '''computerized numerical control CNC''' - realization of NC (2.1.1) using a computer to control the machine functions (2.6).
::So the ISO recognized definition of CNC is ''computerized numerical control'' [[Special:Contributions/130.76.112.25|130.76.112.25]] ([[User talk:130.76.112.25|talk]]) 13:13, 28 July 2022 (UTC)
::: This entire article is kind of garbage. NC != CNC. I should put that in bold. Many (most ?) of the people commenting here do not have a clue. Numerical control came out in 1952 - actually the project started in the 1946-ish time frame but the first functional example was 1952. Numerical control happily went along making parts until the mid seventies, that's like twenty years, when (bold) for the first time (end bold) a computer was put in the box with the rest of the electronics creating, as mentioned above, "computerized numerical control". Can we say this again ? NC != CNC. CNC has a computer in the MCU (machine control unit). NC does not. I've owned both. They ain't the same thing, not by a long shot. This entire article is fubar. [[Special:Contributions/203.160.68.123|203.160.68.123]] ([[User talk:203.160.68.123|talk]]) 05:15, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
== NOT Encycolpedic ==
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::::The [[Fairey Aviation Company|Fairey]]/[[Ferranti]] companies had a computer-controlled milling machine in operation making production parts in 1961 according to here: [http://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1961/1961%20-%201331.html] - according to here: [http://www.wfel.com/about-wfel/history/] they in '1957 create the world’s first computer controlled 3D CNC milling machine in partnership with Ferranti.' <span style="font-size: smaller;" class="autosigned">— Preceding [[Wikipedia:Signatures|unsigned]] comment added by [[Special:Contributions/80.4.57.101|80.4.57.101]] ([[User talk:80.4.57.101|talk]]) 17:36, 20 November 2011 (UTC)</span><!-- Template:Unsigned IP --> <!--Autosigned by SineBot-->
::::: I'm happy for them. The MIT converted hydrotel (first nc machine ever) was running and making 3D ashtrays in 1952. The ashtray was their sample part handed out at conferences showing this new method of machine control. You can maybe find photos online. Times have changed.
::::: 1961 is way late, several US machine tool builders had machines widely available, for sale, in trade shows, several years before that. [[Special:Contributions/203.160.68.123|203.160.68.123]] ([[User talk:203.160.68.123|talk]]) 05:06, 21 June 2024 (UTC)
==Content from merge==
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* This article includes a list of references, but its sources remain unclear because it has insufficient inline citations. (January 2015)
* This article needs additional citations for verification. (June 2015) -[[User:Inowen|Inowen]] ([[User talk:Inowen|nlfte]]) 11:34, 21 August 2018 (UTC)
▲== Numerical control manufacturers ==
▲I recently added a manufacturer list to the NC page. This list is valuable to the page because it gives readers a good example of what companies produce what types of NC machines. The list adds reference to major companies and how their machines differ from other manufacturers machinery. This inclusion is important to the page for readers to compare companies machines and their technology. The addition of new references gives a base to the new content and the overall article.[[User:BrandonL21|BrandonL21]] ([[User talk:BrandonL21|talk]]) 00:21, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
:{{ping|BrandonL21}} Hello.
:The edit was a [[WP:CLOSEPARAPHRASE]] of the source, which makes it a [[WP:COPYVIO|copyright violation]]. Further, it included overly [[WP:PEACOCK|promotional wording]] and an [[WP:TONE|informal tone]] such as saying one company "encompasses a broad range of machines" and saying another was "a leader". This is inappropriate for multiple reasons. Wikipedia [[WP:SOAP|is not a platform for promotion]]. Additionally, Wikipedia [[WP:NOTDIRECTORY|is not a directory]]. The inclusion of specific companies is not appropriate without reliable, independent sources. The use of this promotional language means that this source is not neutral, and not presumed reliable. The value of this information is demonstrated by [[WP:RS|reliable sources]]. See [[WP:IS]], also. Thanks. [[User:Grayfell|Grayfell]] ([[User talk:Grayfell|talk]]) 02:40, 12 June 2020 (UTC)
== Are 3D printers CNC machines or not? ==
The article defines CNC as "[...] the automated control of machining tools [...] by means of a computer", but it also lists 3D printers as an example of a CNC machine. Machining refers to subtractive manufacturing, while 3D printers use additive manufacturing. Should the definition of CNC as exclusively referring to subtractive manufacturing be revised, or should 3D printers be excluded? If 3D printers are to be included, what else counts as a CNC machine? Are inkjet printers CNC machines? --[[User:AwaweWiki|AwaweWiki]] ([[User talk:AwaweWiki|talk]]) 16:29, 21 May 2021 (UTC)
== Creating G&M Codes ==
I created a section labeled basics in creating G&M codes. I basically made a little section about how you can start out making a G&M code if you're just learning how to do it. I talked about a few G&M codes that preform basic functions and I also added some tips. [[User:Shawnbyfield04|Shawnbyfield04]] ([[User talk:Shawnbyfield04|talk]]) 22:53, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
:Thanks for your effort, but I'm afraid I had to revert it. Per [[WP:NOTHOWTO]], this sort of content is off-mission for Wikipedia. You might be able to find a home for it at [[Wikiversity]] if you like writing this kind of thing. [[User:MrOllie|MrOllie]] ([[User talk:MrOllie|talk]]) 23:03, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
== Requested move 16 March 2025 ==
<div class="boilerplate mw-archivedtalk" style="background-color: var(--background-color-success-subtle, #efe); color: var(--color-base, inherit); margin: 0; padding: 0 10px 0 10px; border: 1px dotted var(--border-color-subtle, #AAAAAA);"><!-- Template:RM top -->
:''The following is a closed discussion of a [[Wikipedia:Requested moves|requested move]]. <span style="color: var(--color-error, red);">'''Please do not modify it.'''</span> Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a [[Wikipedia:move review|move review]] '''after''' discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.''
The result of the move request was: '''moved.''' Per the final two comments. [[User:Arbitrarily0|<span style='color:black'><b><u><i>Arbitrarily0</i></u></b></span>]] <sup><b>([[User talk:Arbitrarily0|<span style="font-variant: small-caps; color:#FF4500;">talk</span>]])</b></sup> 20:13, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
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[[:Numerical control]] → {{no redirect|Computer numerical control}} – The most common usage for this technology is CNC. Even this articles uses that abbreviation. What does CNC stand for? Computer numerical control. So that should be the title of the article. [[User:Isaac Rabinovitch|Isaac Rabinovitch]] ([[User talk:Isaac Rabinovitch|talk]]) 16:49, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Two comments''': 1) Both terms seem to be used (e.g., per [https://www.pcmag.com/encyclopedia/term/numerical-control this]), and Wikipedia prefers concise titles. 2) I thought "numerical control" was simply an alternative term for using [[numerical analysis]] in a [[control system]] of any sort, not just something to do with [[machining]] or 3D printing. [[Control theory]] is applied much more broadly than for machining, and numerical methods are commonly applied in control systems, e.g., using [[Sampling (signal processing)|sampling]], [[A/D conversion]] and [[digital signal processing]]. — [[User:BarrelProof|BarrelProof]] ([[User talk:BarrelProof|talk]]) 21:46, 16 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Oppose''' - Back when computers had tape drives, you wouldn't think of using a computer to control a machine tool - NC tools had dedicated random logic that was much simpler than a programmable computer. --[[User:Wtshymanski|Wtshymanski]] ([[User talk:Wtshymanski|talk]]) 01:55, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
*:So you're saying that numerical control is not the same as ''computer'' numerical control. But the article treats them as the same. If you're right (and you do appear to know more about the topic than I do) than the article needs to be rewritten to make the difference clear. [[User:Isaac Rabinovitch|Isaac Rabinovitch]] ([[User talk:Isaac Rabinovitch|talk]]) 22:18, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
*::Wtshymanski, your claim is not borne out by our [[history of numerical control]] article. [[User:Srnec|Srnec]] ([[User talk:Srnec|talk]]) 20:05, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
**[[WP:SOURCES|Unreliable web site, known for user-supplied content.]] Imagine finding two incorrect Wikipedia articles on related topics - what are the odds? A talk page is not an article. I recall standing in a Dominion Bridge plant after they declared bankruptcy. Our company was slightly interested in buying an NC plate cutter they had (though I don't think there was a plan to use it as NC) - I flipped through the manuals and schematics, seeing page after page of TTL...and nary a CPU to be seen. Does our "history of numerical control" go back to the vacuum tube era, or does it just discuss the time since Bill Gates invented the IBM PC as a way to sell more copies of Microsoft Office? ---[[User:Wtshymanski|Wtshymanski]] ([[User talk:Wtshymanski|talk]]) 16:49, 20 March 2025 (UTC)
*:::I think @[[User:Wtshymanski|Wtshymanski]] makes a really important point. I still favor the move request (which I wrote in the first place) but it's true that NC and CNC are not the same thing, and the article needs to reflect that. The confusion comes from the fact that pretty much all NC is now CNC, but didn't used to be. [[User:Isaac Rabinovitch|Isaac Rabinovitch]] ([[User talk:Isaac Rabinovitch|talk]]) 20:17, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
* '''Support''' The original meaning of numerical control is an important one, and my first thought was to oppose this move, on that basis. However we also have an article at [[history of numerical control]]. Given that, I've no object to renaming this to follow the modern term of CNC instead. [[User:Andy Dingley|Andy Dingley]] ([[User talk:Andy Dingley|talk]]) 22:23, 17 March 2025 (UTC)
*'''Support''' per Andy Dingley. The current title is broader, but this article is mainly about CNC. [[User:Srnec|Srnec]] ([[User talk:Srnec|talk]]) 20:05, 18 March 2025 (UTC)
<div style="padding-left: 1.6em; font-style: italic; border-top: 1px solid #a2a9b1; margin: 0.5em 0; padding-top: 0.5em">The discussion above is closed. <b style="color: var(--color-error, red);">Please do not modify it.</b> Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.</div><!-- from [[Template:Archive bottom]] -->
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:Please note that there is an old version of [[computer numerical control]] now available [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Computer_Numerical_Control&oldid=269120431 here], in case it is useful. [[User:Arbitrarily0|<span style='color:black'><b><u><i>Arbitrarily0</i></u></b></span>]] <sup><b>([[User talk:Arbitrarily0|<span style="font-variant: small-caps; color:#FF4500;">talk</span>]])</b></sup> 20:18, 23 March 2025 (UTC)
{{ping|Wtshymanski}} Our [[history of numerical control]] does go back to the vacuum tube era and describes machines using punch tape and magnetic tape drives. You wrote, {{tq|Back when computers had tape drives, you wouldn't think of using a computer to control a machine tool}}. Perhaps I do not understand your meaning. [[User:Srnec|Srnec]] ([[User talk:Srnec|talk]]) 04:05, 24 March 2025 (UTC)
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