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== Documentation / Lua ==
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::
:::Though kind of ugly, this might work:
<
for codepoint in mw.ustring.gcodepoint( s ) do
if 33 > codepoint -- C0 controls
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end
end
</syntaxhighlight>
:::We might simplify and just accept everything below codepoint 592 (0x0250) on the theory that C0 and C1 controls would be an unlikely part of a name.
::
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I have discovered and fixed an error in <code>reduce_to_initials()</code> that produced � for author initials when the first character of the name was not in the set [A-Za-z]:
:<code><nowiki>{{cite news/new|title=title|name-list-
:→{{cite news/new|title=title|name-list-
—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 16:22, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
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:::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 23:58, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
::::Why don't we just drop the bold completely, regardless of character count? <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
:::::Volume numbers, which are especially significant for serials and journals, are often overlooked on account of being so short, wherefore they are commonly bolded so they are more readily seen in long citations.
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| title=A Parallactic Distance of <math>389^{+24}_{-21}</math> Parsecs to the Orion Nebula Cluster from Very Long Baseline Array Observations | date=2007 | author=Sandstrom, Karin M. | journal=The Astrophysical Journal | volume=667 | issue=2 | pages=1161 | bibcode=2007ApJ...667.1161S | arxiv=0706.2361| last2=Peek | first2=J. E. G. | last3=Bower | first3=Geoffrey C. | last4=Bolatto | first4=Alberto D. | last5=Plambeck | first5=Richard L. }}
::::::::Fortunately there aren't ''that'' many instances of this second type:
:::::::::<code><nowiki>insource:/\| *title *=[^\|\}]*\<math/</nowiki></code>
::::::::Still, these lurk in the back of my mind as something that needs to be addressed.
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Sure, but I'm simply not going to type in all 37 to get the "and 37 others" tag. Since the cite will only list one author, and the citeref refers only to that author, I shouldn't have to list all the rest just to get the template to display the way it's going to in the end anyway. [[User:Maury Markowitz|Maury Markowitz]] ([[User talk:Maury Markowitz|talk]]) 02:48, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
::::{{u|Maury Markowitz}}: '''I just showed you''' how to get the 'et al.' with '''just two''' authors. Look at the wikisource. (Though, as I said, you really should have at least three/four. See below.) ~ [[User:J. Johnson|J. Johnson (JJ)]] ([[User_talk:J. Johnson#top|talk]]) 21:00, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
:{{reply to|Maury Markowitz}} you can put the 1st author in {{para|author1}}, set {{para|display-authors|1}} (as suggested above), and copy & paste the remaining authors into {{para|author2}} as long as they're either comma or semicolon delimited. Then I, or someone with a similar script, can enumerate them into the appropriate # of authors. From all my citation cleanup, this seems to be the way it is being (hastily?) done. Whether or not there's a better way is a different story. <b>~</b> <
::The original problem that led me here was a PDF document that doesn't allow cut and paste of the text. :-) [[User:Maury Markowitz|Maury Markowitz]] ([[User talk:Maury Markowitz|talk]]) 14:19, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
:::I have that same frustration with paper books and newspapers. I can cut and paste, but then I can't see my whole computer monitor. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 14:35, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
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:I have not implemented this for the editor name-list. Shall I proceed or revert?
:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 16:58, 2 April 2015 (UTC)
::I agree with both {{para|display-authors|more}} and {{para|more-authors}}, and prefer the {{para|display-authors|more}} solution since it uses an existing parameter in a non-conflicting way, is intuitive to use, and it's easy to remember. <b>~</b> <
:::I agree with {{para|display-authors|more}} for the reasons given by [[User:Tom.Reding|Tom.Reding]]. It would probably be useful to have a bit of error checking for {{para|display-authors}} to locate values that are not numbers or "more". I don't know what is done with {{para|display-authors|blahblahblah}} now, but it should throw an error.
:::Testing {{para|display-authors|blahblahblah}} : {{cite book|last=Smith|first=John|title=Title|display-authors=blahblahblah}}
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:I think <code>etal</code> is clearer, and I love the idea of allowing multiple forms of it in the parameter value. Editors will reasonably expect to be able to type <code>et al</code> or <code>et al.</code>, especially since the latter is the recommended form in MOS. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 23:04, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
::I think that using {{para|display-authors|etal}} (and silently allowing the variations) is the easiest solution. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
:::Ok, {{para|display-authors|more}} no more.
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:::Is this the sort of thing you're after, [[User:AngusWOOF|AngusWOOF]]? - <u>'''[[User:Evad37|Evad]]''37'''''</u> <span style="font-size:95%;">[[[d:w:User talk:Evad37|talk]]]</span> 03:49, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
:::: Yep, that would work! -[[User:AngusWOOF|AngusWOOF]] ([[User talk:AngusWOOF|talk]]) 04:21, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::The biggest criticism I have of {{tl|cite tweet}} is that it links through the tweet number and relegates the content of the tweet to the optional quote parameter. Most citation guides say to include the full content of a tweet as the title of the tweet and not to display the tweet's number. At least one guide also advises using the real name of the author in addition to the Twitter account name, which should be preceded by the @. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
:::::: If there's a way to make Twitter status compatible with CS1 I'd be all for that. Twitter status (as shown in my above example) allows for the title to summarize the tweet rather than force the exact quote which would introduce hashtags, links, and replies to non-notable users. -[[User:AngusWOOF|AngusWOOF]] ([[User talk:AngusWOOF|talk]]) 14:14, 4 April 2015 (UTC)
{{od}}
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::*To solve the issue of multiple instances of "Twitter" being linked, I'd just drop the publisher completely and default to {{para|type|Tweet}}. It may be a semantical distinction, but Twitter doesn't actually cause any tweets to be published; the user tweeting does. They merely host the content, just as Google Books hosts copies of scanned books, and we'd never say Google actually published the books. (It's possible that Google published content that they host on Google Books, but it's also possible that Twitter itself tweets.)
::*The quote parameter is superfluous as the full tweet should be given.
::For additional ideas, we can consult guidelines from the [http://
:::[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3ACite_tweet%2Fsandbox&diff=655155932&oldid=655140355 These changes] implement your suggestions. Another point for discussion: At the moment, if {{para|user}} or {{para|number}} is ommitted, a junk url such as <nowiki>https://twitter.com/{{{user}}}/status/{{{number}}}</nowiki> is passed through to {{tl|cite web}}, and error messages regarding {{para|user}} and {{para|number}} are displayed. Another option would be to check the parameters, so that no url rather than a junk url is passed through – but not having a url results in the "Missing or empty |url=" error message, which is a bit deceptive as cite tweet doesn't have a |url= parameter. Any ideas on which is preferable, or if there is another option? - <u>'''[[User:Evad37|Evad]]''37'''''</u> <span style="font-size:95%;">[[[d:w:User talk:Evad37|talk]]]</span> 08:18, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
::::Actually, I've just noticed that the missing url error message is hidden by default, so now the code checks that the parameters have been set - <u>'''[[User:Evad37|Evad]]''37'''''</u> <span style="font-size:95%;">[[[d:w:User talk:Evad37|talk]]]</span> 09:55, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
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:::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 10:46, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::Done - <u>'''[[User:Evad37|Evad]]''37'''''</u> <span style="font-size:95%;">[[[d:w:User talk:Evad37|talk]]]</span> 14:57, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
::One other idea, but MLA uses a time in addition to the date, and it advises that the time zone should be that of the author of the paper, not the author of the tweet. Since Wikipedia is an international publication, if we did have a way to insert the time, I would suggest that we mandated UTC. (We don't use times in any other form of citations though, and I think the Lua module would see any attempt to add a time to a date as an error.) <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
::: Regarding whether titles and quotes be the same, I disagree. While the quote can contain the full tweet (without the hashtags as appropriate) the title should be without the quotes as it may be needed to explain the context, such as when a user says "Happy Birthday", and the tweeter replies "Thanks!" -[[User:AngusWOOF|AngusWOOF]] ([[User talk:AngusWOOF|talk]]) 16:59, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
::::{{ping|AngusWOOF}} since the title of a tweet is the full tweet, hashtags and all, any quotation in the middle of that is superfluous to the full tweet, period.
::::In your proffered example, the context would require the citation of two separate tweets. You'd end up with something like <code><nowiki><ref>{{cite tweet <details on first tweet...>}}<br/>{{cite tweet <details on reply tweet..>}}</ref></nowiki></code>. To attempt to quote the reply while only citing the original one fails to attribute both authors, even if the link to the original tweet displays the reply. If the reply comes days after original, you'd have issues related to which date to use. By using separate citations, even if combined into the same footnote, you'd properly attribute each other and note the proper date(s) for what are separate tweets. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
::::: Yes, that would be needed if the tweets are not threaded, but in the case where it is threaded only the second tweet is necessary, as in this example: [https://twitter.com/YuriLowenthal/status/383858960958124033] But a double tweet in the ref would be fine. -[[User:AngusWOOF|AngusWOOF]] ([[User talk:AngusWOOF|talk]]) 18:59, 6 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::There's still the same issue of attribution. Even in that case, you need the work of two separate authors to set up the context, and the template only supports one author because, by design, tweets only have a single author/account. I still think that even with the threading, you'd want to separately cite [https://twitter.com/Allens_tweets/status/383762383555928064] followed by [https://twitter.com/YuriLowenthal/status/383858960958124033 the reply] to keep attribution and dates correct. There's a 6-hour gap between the original and the reply, putting them on separate days according to how Twitter displays them for me. Maybe in other time zones they'd appear to have the same date. Adding date support would require additional modifications to the Lua module that handles CS1 templates though. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
::::::: If the quote and the title are to be the same, then it would be fine to exclude hashtags and @'s (and http:// links, similarly use ellipses) where it doesn't add to the content of the article. Would that make it CS1 compatible? As for the date, it should be mainly dependent on where the RS person in question is situated. This would work if the OP asks their question the day before (or after if they are in the Far East and the RS is in the United States) and is also consistent with news article time stamps coming from whoever posted the article. -[[User:AngusWOOF|AngusWOOF]] ([[User talk:AngusWOOF|talk]]) 01:59, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
::::::::Why would you drop the hashtags, at signs or the links? They're part of the content of the tweet, period. There's no compatibility issues to be worried about with the links, as Twitter drops the "http://" part of a URL in the displayed text. We wouldn't have any issue with the template/MediaWiki software recognizing a link in the middle of the title:
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::::::::using that example from the APA Style Blog, and putting it in {{tl|cite web}}, there isn't a need to drop any of the content. If we're going to do this, we should do it properly and reproduce the full tweet.
::::::::As of right now, we can't include publication times in CS1 citations. The Lua module checks the formatting and validity of the dates supplied, and there is no standardized way to handle a time of publication. Adding a time stamp to a citation, at the present, creates an error. For most sources, anything more precise than a day is not needed; for other sources like books, anything more specific than the year of publication is overkill.
::::::::Twitter, like other social media, is different from news articles. The date and time stamp on an article published on cnn.com won't vary based on the time zone of the reader. CNN's time stamps are fixed based on their ___location in Atlanta, Georgia, United States. However, Twitter reports the date and time stamp on a tweet based on the time zone of the reader. Where I am located at the moment is UTC-5, so a freshly posted tweet would carry a date of April 6, 2015, and a time of 9:48 p.m. If I were located in London, that same tweet would appear with April 7, 2015 at 3:48 a.m. We can't assume or guess the original local time for the person writing a tweet, unless it's geotagged. Printed publications get around this because they'll default to the time zone of the author citing the tweet, which will be fixed because it is in print. If we ever added the capacity to include the time of a tweet, to minimize issues we should then specify that the time be given in UTC. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
:::::::: Well that a tweet has that character limit means quoting the entire thing shouldn't be an issue then. -[[User:AngusWOOF|AngusWOOF]] ([[User talk:AngusWOOF|talk]]) 04:25, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
I have updated the template, and fixed the resulting errors in the error tracking category - <u>'''[[User:Evad37|Evad]]''37'''''</u> <span style="font-size:95%;">[[[d:w:User talk:Evad37|talk]]]</span> 04:43, 10 April 2015 (UTC)
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:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 16:24, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
::I agree on the comment about informality of the name. Personally, I'd use the official name of the task force as the author. As for the report number, {{para|id| H. Rept. No. 102-1102}} should work to include it. Adding {{para|oclc| 27492534}} ({{oclc| 27492534}}) to link to the library catalog entry is another beneficial extension of the citation for readers. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
:::Thanks for the feedback. Although it makes the citation quite lengthy, I used the formal name in {{para|author}} but [[House October Surprise Task Force]] for its link:
::::{{cite book |author=Task Force to Investigate Certain Allegations Concerning the Holding of American Hostages by Iran in 1980 |author-link=House October Surprise Task Force |title=Joint report of the Task Force to Investigate Certain Allegations Concerning the Holding of American Hostages by Iran in 1980 ("October Surprise Task Force") |url=http://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015060776773 |date=January 3, 1993 |publisher=United States Government Printing Office |___location=Washington, D.C. |page=147|chapter=VIII. Alleged Attempts to Delay the Release of the Hostages |chapterurl=http://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015060776773?urlappend=%3Bseq=161 |id=H. Rept. No. 102-1102 |oclc=27492534 |ref={{harvid|"October Surprise Task Force"|1993}}}}
:::By the way, where did you find the OCLC number? - [[User:Location|Location]] ([[User talk:Location|talk]]) 18:22, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
::::The webpage displaying the report has a link on its left side to "Find in a library". Clicking that takes you to the worldcat.org entry: http://www.worldcat.org/title/joint-report-of-the-task-force-to-investigate-certain-allegations-concerning-the-holding-of-american-hostages-by-iran-in-1980-october-surprise-task-force/oclc/27492534 . <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
:::::Thanks again! - [[User:Location|Location]] ([[User talk:Location|talk]]) 19:53, 7 April 2015 (UTC)
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—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 11:00, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
:Thoughts on incorporating {{para|orig-date}}, perhaps by aliasing {{para|orig-year}} to it? ([[Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_7#origyear -> origdate?|discussion]]) <b>~</b> <
::{{U|Trappist the monk}}, please post here when you have made the above edits so that we can update the documentation. Am I correct in thinking that we will be able to remove all of the non-Lua text from the template documentation files? – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 23:04, 11 April 2015 (UTC)
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But, just to be a counterpoint:
{{cite compare |old=no |mode=map |author= Ohio Department of Highways |year= 1930 |title= Map of Ohio showing State Routes |url= http://www.dot.state.oh.us/Divisions/Planning/TechServ/TIM/Documents/StateMaps/otm1930a.sid |format= [[MrSID]] }}
The "r" in [[MrSID]] shouldn't be capitalized. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
:Ok, no case shifting.
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:::I think an editor coming at referencing from a "non-academic normal guy" standpoint can be easily confused by the text generated for citations when using {{tl|cite journal}}, and some of these uses of an explicit page indicator within the {{para|page}} parameter will be attempts at making things easier to read. [[User:Stamptrader|Stamptrader]] ([[User talk:Stamptrader|talk]]) 20:36, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
::::Maybe we could consider changing the formatting of journal references to something like "''Journal'', vol. 3, no. 2, pp. 54–128" instead of "''Journal'' '''3''' (2): 54–128"? It's a little less concise (so what) and less like typical academic citation formats (also so what) but clear enough and much less intimidating, I think. Not to be done without a lot of discussion first, though, since this is a big change. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 21:11, 21 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::I'm looking at CMOS 16, and for citing a specific volume of multivolume books, it uses "4:243" to put the volume and page number together if the volume lacks a separate name. For journals, they use "76, no. 1 (2006): 19–35;" after the name of the journal. On that basis, {{ul|David Eppstein}}'s idea of explicitly adding the "vol", "no." and "p."/"pp." prefixes isn't far fetched. What I've wanted to do for {{tl|cite journal}} is that "76(1):19–35" would be fine, but if the volume or issue number are dropped, the "p." or "pp." would appear with the page number, but the less concise format may be better for {{u|Stamptrader}}'s "non-academic normal guy". As it is, I wish many of our editors would heed the advice to stop using the overly abbreviated journal names in deference to our non-academic readers. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
== date for bimonthly issue ==
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:::::{{cite journal |title= Title |journal= Journal |date= 21 December 1963 – 1 February 1964}}
:::::{{cite journal |title= Title |journal= Journal |date= 21 December 1963–1 February 1964}}
::::This is how the MOS says we are supposed to format dates in prose, which the templates are designed to enforce. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
Thank you; alles klar. [[Special:Contributions/86.160.232.4|86.160.232.4]] ([[User talk:86.160.232.4|talk]]) 22:39, 22 April 2015 (UTC)
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|at= <s>[http://www.ipcc.ch/publications_and_data/ar4/wg1/en/ch9s9-5-2.html Section 9.5.2: Sea Level]</s>
}} in {{Harvnb|IPCC AR4 WG1|2007}}.
:::<small>This should be considered as a ''full'' citation, which would appear only ''once'' in an article (presumably in the "Bibliography" or such), and refers to the ''whole'' source ("Chapter 9"), not to any specific material within. (I have stricken the specification that was mistakenly included.) It does not ''look'' like a "full" citation because it does not repeat the bibliographic details of the encompassing work, nor a proper list of authors, and contains only the details that distinguish this chapter from other chapters in the same work. ~ [[User:J. Johnson|J. Johnson (JJ)]] ([[User_talk:J. Johnson#top|talk]]) 20:41, 15 March 2015 (UTC)</small>
::::{{tlx|harvc}} does that: can appear only once and refers/links to the single whole source, does not look like a full citation (because it isn't one) and contains only the details that distinguish this chapter from others in the same work. And, it doesn't produce corrupted metadata and so there isn't a missing title error message (though it will emit error messages when required stuff is omitted).
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:::Of course, where the differences between two such templates is so slight, it would be absurd to maintain separate blocks of code. That also goes to creating and maintaining a whole new template (Harvc) which, in the end, implements what is a trivial enhancement of what can be (''and has been'') done with CS1. In brief, [{{tld|citation}} "in" {{tld|harv}}] worked fine; there was ''no need for Harvc'' until you broke {citation}. ~ [[User:J. Johnson|J. Johnson (JJ)]] ([[User_talk:J. Johnson#top|talk]]) 23:58, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
:I think that the current situation works just fine. {{tl|Harvc}} is designed to shorten a citation down to the name(s) of the contributor(s) of a component in a larger work and link to the full citation of the encompassing work in another section. It works just fine to handle multiple chapters in a report that each have individual authorship apart from the encompassing report on [[Michigan State Trunkline Highway System]], and for the life of me, I can't see what the great issue is with that system that's caused all of this discussion and debate. The status quo with the templates, with a few possible amendments seems more than adequate. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
::Imzadi: I think you are not paying close enough attention. All that you said is quite true except one little detail: a couple of months ago the status quo changed, resulting in numerous "error" messages that beg "fixing". I am trying to get Tappist to make a "possible amendment", but won't do it. He wants me to use Harvc, which I find quite unsuitable. Not because of the displayed result, but for all the objections he makes to my requested little change, plus the confusion it will add the use of citations, particularly the Harv templates. We are not arguing about the resulting display, but the process, and similar underlying issues. ~ [[User:J. Johnson|J. Johnson (JJ)]] ([[User_talk:J. Johnson#top|talk]]) 05:50, 28 April 2015 (UTC)
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::::- I'm not sure if this will just automatically work once {{tlx|cite arXiv}} gets migrated, so, just in case: {{para|display-authors}} isn't recognized currently, and the citation auto-truncates to 8 authors. Also, I support points 1-4.
::::- Concerning {{para|journal}} or {{para|publisher}} in {{tlx|cite arXiv}}, I agree with [[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein ]] and [[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist]] - I think it would be better to produce an error message, or at least a maintenance category/message to convert a {{tlx|cite arXiv}} to {{tlx|cite journal}} (I've seen variants of {{para|publisher|arXiv}} though..., which could be made to emit an error as well?). If {{tlx|cite arXiv}} were to accept {{para|journal}}, then it would make sense to duplicate most of the other {{tlx|cite journal}} parameters, but I don't think that's the right way to go. I think it'd make more sense to make {{tlx|cite journal}} a wrapper around {{tlx|cite arXiv}} (if I'm using the term properly), than the other way around. {{tlx|cite arXiv}} should be reserved for papers not yet published in a {{tlx|cite journal}}. A potential problem is that arXiv eprints are not always word-for-word copies of their published peer-reviewed counterparts, but the differences are generally minor. <b>~</b> <
:::::Setting {{para|displayauthors|4}} seems to work in the new version; as an example I've added {{para|publisher|Publisher}} (should show an error):
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Forgive me if I'm being stupid, but isn't it always better to use {{tlp|cite journal|2=arxiv=xxx}} than {{tlp|cite arxiv|2=eprint=xxx}} anyway? In the former case Citation bot automatically fills out the journal details if and when the preprint is published, and it ensures full compliance with all the normal formatting used by {{tl|cite journal}} and support for all the existing parameters. Is there any reason to maintain a separate template for this? It seems rather pointless to duplicate everything. Could {{tl|cite arxiv}} not be deprecated entirely, or converted into a simple wrapper for {{tl|cite journal}}? [[User:Modest Genius|<
:Are you sure about that? {{tlx|cite journal}} doesn't have the auto-filling-by-bot code that {{tlx|cite arxiv}} has. Infact, creating a {{tld|cite journal}} with just {{para|arxiv}} creates missing or empty title errors.
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::Whenever I use a {{tl|cite journal}} I enter a single ID and then hit 'expand citations'. The bot is supposed to do it after some time if I forget to hit the button, but I haven't tested whether that's working in practice. If it's a preprint that hasn't been published yet the template still works fine so long as e.g. the title gets filled out by the bot.
::I'm unconvinced by the need to specifically cite the preprint rather than the final publication, because a) many editors read the arxiv version simply because that is the [[green open access]] copy of the final publication (rather than a preliminary version) and thus citing the real thing is preferably (as there are many other ways of accessing it) and b) If some claim was present in a pre-reviewing arxiv posting but not in the final publication then must have been found to be deficient during the peer review process, so we really shouldn't be citing it.
::Of course I still might be missing something here. [[User:Modest Genius|<
:::Update: I just did a [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3AModest_Genius%2Fsandbox&diff=656191915&oldid=656191362 quick sandbox test], and it was in fact the [[bibcode]] that behaves the way I was thinking, not the arxiv ID (which I had to add manually). Note however that the formatting of the final result was superior in the {{tl|cite journal}} case, whilst the {{tl|cite arxiv}} ended up with the wrong year of publication(!) but had a nicer clickable link. It's unclear to me whether it would be easier to get Citation bot to look up arxiv IDs in {{tl|cite journal}}, or make changes to {{tl|cite arxiv}} to mirror all the other desired functionality. I suspect the former but am no expert on bots. [[User:Modest Genius|<
::::There is no facility in {{tlx|cite journal}} to notify Citation bot that a journal citation needs to be completed. That facility does exist for {{tlx|cite arxiv}}; the template leaves you a message in the article telling you: "A bot will complete this citation soon." The template also gives you a link to click if you want it done now. {{tld|cite journal}} does not do this.
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::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 00:35, 13 April 2015 (UTC)
:::::The 'tool' I'm using is just citation bot. Yes cite arxiv does give you a handy link to it, whilst cite journal does not (I mentioned this above), but the bot fills both out eventually anyway. The year is incorrect because it gave volume and page numbers that didn't exist until 2013 - in this case 2012 would refer to the preprint only and not the final journal publication. Oh and yes I did use cite arxiv, it's just that [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Modest_Genius/sandbox&diff=656191511&oldid=656191501 when the bot fills it out it changes it to cite journal]. It seems that cite journal is better for some things, and cite arxiv better for others. Surely combining the best bits into a single template is easier to maintain than two separate but very similar templates? [[User:Modest Genius|<
::::::So you did; I missed the (4 intermediate revisions by 2 users not shown) text.
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== Citing youtube and online video sites ==
Apologies if this question has been asked a gazillion times already. What is the preferred cite AV media parameters for citing a youtube or other online video: 1) from the direct site itself, and 2) from a wrapper site / news article that embeds the video? Should I use work=YouTube, medium=YouTube, or via=YouTube? [[User:AngusWOOF|<strong
:It probably hasn't, but I'll throw a suggested answer out:
:# If you are citing content in the video itself, I would recommend clicking through to the origin website (youtube.com in your example) and using that URL. This is cite AV media.
Line 2,136 ⟶ 2,135:
I'm going through this list and I'm not seeing the CS1 maintenance message on some of the pages. For example, [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Anton_incident&oldid=633804975 Anton incident] (last edited 2014) contains <code>|language=English (<nowiki>[http://yle.fi/uutiset/kotimaa/2009/05/stubb_puolustaa_antonin_isaa_ja_konsulaatin_tyontekijaa_740524.html Finnish]</nowiki>)</code> and is currently on the 1st page of [[:Category:CS1 maint: Unrecognized language]], yet I fail to see an unknown language error anywhere on the page. [[User:Tom.Reding/common.css|My common.css]] has the appropriate line of code to see maintenance messages, and I've null-edited the page. Is this a bug, a feature, or my fault? <b>~</b> <
:The bug that I introduced fails to categorize unrecognized languages. That whole long string is considered to be one language name because there isn't a comma separator.
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* {{cite book|last=A Whited|first=Lana|title=The Ivory Tower and Harry Potter| publisher=University of Missouri Press|year=2004|isbn=978-0-8262-1549-9}}
* A Whited, Lana (2004). ''The Ivory Tower and Harry Potter''. University of Missouri Press. {{ISBN
The first one (use of {{para|isbn}}) contains an extra link to [[ISBN]]. The second one is given in plain text. I think this link is unnecessary. Moreover, it's overlinking. -- [[User:Magioladitis|Magioladitis]] ([[User talk:Magioladitis|talk]]) 06:50, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
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:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 10:29, 6 May 2015 (UTC)
: {{ISBN
[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] I mean we could just unlink all of PMC, doi, zbl, issn as common links and instead of having a wikilink followed by an (almost) external link just inherit the behaviour of {{ISBN
:I tend to agree it's overlinking. If it only did it with the first citation on the page that used it, maybe not, but it seems like "[[ISBN]]" (or whatever) may appear linked 100 times in the same long article. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 12:07, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
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: I don't believe it is overlinking. The internal link serves a useful purpose (it answers the question of what the heck is a doi, isbn, pmid, etc.). [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 16:27, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
:I disagree that having a link to ISBN or the others in overlinking. I'm guessing there are plenty of people who have no idea what "zb", PMC", etc. mean. Even if you believe it to be in contradiction with [[WP:OVERLINK]], it is irrelevant in that having such links ''does'' aid readers, and there always comes a time when guidelines are not actually helpful. If a guideline causes problems, it can be overlooked in certain specific situations. [[User:Dustin V. S.|<span style="color:green; font-family:Times New Roman">''Dustin''</span>]] [[User talk:Dustin V. S.|(<span style="color:green; font-family:Times New Roman">talk</span>)]] 16:38, 20 June 2015 (UTC)
:Linking to the article "ISBN" breaks the consistency of formatting of ISBN links between different methods of displaying and ISBN, and should never have been introduced. The ISBN special page provides sufficient information, directly or indirectly, about what an ISBN is. Readers reasonably expect that clicking on any part of {{ISBN
== Journal article titles ==
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:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 12:12, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
::I disagree with the concept that CS1 follows the MOS. Only certain specific guidance has been adopted; the only guidance I know of adopted from MOS was date format, and that was a problem, because MOSNUM date guidance was being changed faster than the templates could be edited to keep up. As far as I know, there is no guidance whether to use sentence case or title case for journal article titles in citations. [[User:Jc3s5h|Jc3s5h]] ([[User talk:Jc3s5h|talk]]) 12:50, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
:::Absent any declaration of specific style to the contrary, it is appropriate to fall back on [[WP:MOS|MOS:]] for style guidance. Style for titles is not defined for cs1|2 templates because there is no provision to detect deviation from a defined style and so enforce adherence to that style. As an aside, I have been wondering of late, about detecting and categorizing templates that have titles and other information in all capital letters.
:::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 14:09, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
::::I disagree with the whole concept that only style matters that can be checked by programming language in a template are defined for CS1. If CS1 is a citation style in its own right, then style matters can be prescribed in the documentation even though they are not enforceable with software. Likewise, style prescriptions can be made in the documentation that, for the time being, are incorrectly implemented in the software (February 29, 1700, Julian calendar). In such cases it is the software that is faulty, not the editor who filled out the template. [[User:Jc3s5h|Jc3s5h]] ([[User talk:Jc3s5h|talk]]) 19:08, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
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:::::It would seem then that there is not much call for cs1|2 to support Julian leap days in the overlap period of 1582 – c. 1923. To do so would require some sort of mechanism to specifically identify those three dates as Julian dates; which can be done if there is ever a need.
:::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 22:22, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
:I usually tend to sentence case for journal entry/article titles since these seem to have uncommon capitalization (Or Use Capital Letters For Obvious Emphasis, something which is on the Do Not Do list at [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Capital letters#Do not use for emphasis]]; [[WP:BADEMPHASIS]] is also relevant).<p>Regardless, I would recommend asking this question at [[WT:MOS]] with a note to that discussion from [[WT:Citing sources]] or similar (or vice versa as desired), since I don't think this is a question particularly specific to CS1. --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 14:58, 18 May 2015 (UTC)</p>
::Many thanks for your help. I've taken [[User:Izno|Izno]]'s advice and asked the question at [[WT:MOS]]. [[User:Aa77zz|Aa77zz]] ([[User talk:Aa77zz|talk]]) 17:13, 18 May 2015 (UTC)
::: I think everyone is missing the point here. MOS applies to text, not citations. MOS is irrelevant to this discussion. Journal article titles and journal names typically use title case, not sentence case. We should follow the case that is used in the original sources, not the MOS. [[User:Boghog|Boghog]] ([[User talk:Boghog|talk]]) 19:19, 19 May 2015 (UTC)
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*As {{u|Aa77zz}} noted above at 17:13, 18 May 2015, a new thread was started at [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style#Formatting titles of journal articles and book chapters in references]] and is continuing there. Beginning at 19:08, 19 May 2015 we have had ''six'' further comments here, so we now have a split discussion, which goes against [[WP:MULTI]]. Please could {{u|Jc3s5h}}, {{u|Trappist the monk}}, {{u|Boghog}}, {{u|David Eppstein}} and {{u|AManWithNoPlan}} consider moving their later comments to the MOS thread? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 08:01, 20 May 2015 (UTC)
*This whole "ignore MOS for citations because ... no real reason" stuff is causing more problems than it solves. As far as I can tell the only "problem" it "solves" at all is "I like to do citations my way, so to Hell with the MOS." This seems to be worse than useless. It's leading to some really wretched stuff, like more and more articles littered with citations like: {{cite journal |title=CHRONOLOGICAL VARIABILITY IN CERAMIC PASTE: A COMPARISON OF DEPTFORD AND SAVANNAH PERIOD POTTERY IN THE ST. MARYS RIVER REGION OF NORTHEAST FLORIDA AND SOUTHEAST GEORGIA |first=Ann S. |last=Cordell |work=Southeastern Archaeology |volume=12 |issue=1 |date=1993 |pages=33–58}}. And worse - I at least used {{tlx|cite journal}} for that, when many do not, and thus do all kinds of other crap like leave the title unitalicized. I'm also seeing an increasing amount of "{{sm|Chronological Variability ...}}" which is not much better than ALLCAPS. Something detrimental has happened, presumably on one of my wikibreaks, so I didn't notice it until after the fact. [[WP:CITEVAR]] went from a reasonable "don't change an existing, acceptable citation style in an article" idea, to being aggressively interpreted as meaning "every citation style you can imagine is acceptable, so no matter how awful it is for readers, it will be set in stone forever by whoever makes the first major edit". This really needs to be undone. I have no problem at all with people pasting in citations in weird formats – at least they're working on citing sources for content at all. But the backward notion that no one is ever permitted to clean them up any more is unacceptable.</p><p>To move back toward the earlier gist of the thread: There's no defensible rationale for WP's own internal styles, e.g. CS1/2, to diverge from MOS, our own internal style guide, on anything. It's like supposing that some random class of citizens, e.g., dog catchers or plumbers, are exempt from their country's laws other than the ones they write themselves. I fully agree with Jc3s5h's point, "style matters can be prescribed in the documentation even though they are not enforceable with software". I simply add that there's no reason to deviate from MOS when it already prescribes a relevant style. NB: This also means WP doesn't care if APA says to use sentence case for titles. It's weird enough that WP does this for its own titles, for a technical reason that should have been fixed a long time ago, but we don't do that for titles in the encyclopedia content. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 10:54, 13 June 2015 (UTC)</p>
** Update: See [[#Simple way to resolve MOS and citation discrepancies]], below, for totally painless solution (other than to whether we should permit externally-derived cite styles that do smallcaps and such; I'm just giving up on that for now). <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 02:22, 18 June 2015 (UTC)
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:::For Djadjko's example:
:::*{{Cite book |ref= harv |script-title=ru:Книжка|title= Kniga |trans-title= Book |language= ru |first= I. I. |last= Ivanov |date= 2010 |publisher= Izdatelystvo |place=Moscow|isbn=000}}
:::{{para|script-title|ru:Книжка}} will add the non-transliterated title, and where necessary, it handles right-to-left coding (Hebrew, Arabic, etc). <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
== |script-chapter= ? ==
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:::{{cite web |url=https://www.cbc.ca/news |title=CBC reports… |publisher=[[CBC News]] |accessdate=2015-06-16 |archiveurl=http://web.archive.org/ |archivedate=2015-06-16 |deadurl=yes}} {{resize|{{color|#AAA|“{{!}}deadurl{{=}}yes”}}}}
::become
:::<pre>{{cite web |url=https://www.cbc.ca/news |title=CBC reports… |publisher=[[CBC News]] |accessdate=2015-06-16}}{{Sourcearchived |archiveurl=http://web.archive.org/ |archivedate=2015-06-16 |url=https://www.cbc.ca/news |deadurl=no}} {{resize|{{color|#AAA|“{{!}}deadurl{{=}}no”}}}}</pre>
:::<pre>{{cite web |url=https://www.cbc.ca/news |title=CBC reports… |publisher=[[CBC News]] |accessdate=2015-06-16}}{{Sourcearchived |archiveurl=http://web.archive.org/ |archivedate=2015-06-16 |url=https://www.cbc.ca/news |deadurl=yes}} {{resize|{{color|#AAA|“{{!}}deadurl{{=}}yes”}}}}</pre>
::Only problem is that this version really needs more advanced programming to use a pop-up window (like footnotes within articles) to list links to multiple archives; otherwise it wouldn't look proper if something like “{{tl|Sourcearchived}}{{tl|Sourcearchived}}{{tl|Sourcearchived}}{{tl|Sourcearchived}}{{tl|Sourcearchived}}{{tl|Sourcearchived}}{{tl|Sourcearchived}}{{tl|Sourcearchived}}{{tl|Sourcearchived}}” appeared at the end of a reference where many pages were individually archived.
::Thoughts?
::Cheers — <span class="vcard"><span class="fn nickname">[[User:Who R you?|<span class="nowrap">Who R you?</span>]]</span> <small>[[User talk:Who R you?|Talk]]</small></span> 02:42, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
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::I've used the latter of Redrose64's two suggestions a number of times. As another suggestion, you can drop the volume and issue number; the date is the key item for finding an issue of a newspaper on microfilm or in bound volumes. Also, the ___location of "Chicago" is superfluous when the city name is contained within the newspaper name.
:::{{cite news |last=Clark |first=William |date=September 17, 1960 |title=Rome's Trade Center—How It Came to Be |url=http://archives.chicagotribune.com/1960/09/17/page/25/article/romes-trade-center-how-it-came-to-be |newspaper=Chicago Tribune |at= part 2, p. 5 |access-date=June 9, 2015}}
::should be sufficient to cite the article. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
::::I feel silly for not even trying to put the section and page in the same parameter. Thanks again! - [[User:Location|Location]] ([[User talk:Location|talk]]) 13:28, 10 June 2015 (UTC)
:::Agreed either of those are acceptable solutions. So is {{para|page|5 (Sports/Finance)}}. I'd keep the volume and issue. More information is better than less (as long as it's not {{em|directly}} redundant, as with "Chicago" in that case) and consistent formatting is a virtue. Omission of vol. & issue for one kind of periodical inspires omission of it for all. We can't depend on editors already having memorized citation "etiquette" and necessarily knowing it should always be included for academic journals. I think it should also always be included for magazines not likely to be found in digitized or microfiche form. Frequently, if I want to verify something from an old magazine, I have to find it on eBay, and I can't depend on sellers to use both dates and vol./no. in their listings. Taken to an extreme, the "don't include parameters not absolutely required to identify the source" would mean citing nothing but an ISBN, ISSN or OCLC number. >;-) <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 09:43, 13 June 2015 (UTC)
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:Maybe the solution is to have a parameter such as {{para|ed-no-abbr}} which will not append "ed." and it will be up to the Wikipedia editor to describe the edition in a suitable way. [[User:Jc3s5h|Jc3s5h]] ([[User talk:Jc3s5h|talk]]) 19:23, 15 June 2015 (UTC)
::Maybe, but I've also recast things slightly so that the "ed." fits at the end because of this, and if we didn't add a parameter, {{para|edition|Corrected printing of 2nd}} would resolve the issue. <small>P.S., please don't use {{tl|para}} or similar in the heading as it breaks the automatic link to the section in the edit summary.</small> <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
== archive-url requires archive-date ==
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Websites are not italicized (see for example [[Facebook]], [[Wikipedia]] or [[Amazon.com]]), yet if you insert the title of a website in the "website" parameter of {{[[Template:Cite web|Cite web]]}} or the "work" parameter of {{[[Template:Cite news|Cite news]]}}, it is automatically italicized. The same goes for radio stations and possibly other types of sources as well. Shouldn't this be fixed? [[User:Littlecarmen|Littlecarmen]] ([[User talk:Littlecarmen|talk]]) 09:14, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
:Radio and TV stations are publishers, so they should be in the {{para|publisher}} parameter. Some TV stations' websites may have their own names; the site for WLUC-TV is named ''Upper Michigan's Source'', while the other local stations, lack names for their websites. ''Wikipedia'', if being cited, should be italicized. It's an online encyclopedia, and encyclopedia titles are italicized. As for your other two examples. since those are both the names of the websites and their respective companies, you can put them in {{para|publisher}} as well. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
::Thank you for the fast response! [[User:Littlecarmen|Littlecarmen]] ([[User talk:Littlecarmen|talk]]) 12:02, 17 June 2015 (UTC)
{{od}}For context, the question relates to [[Wikipedia:Featured list candidates/Timeline of Malaysia Airlines Flight 370/archive1|a Featured List candidate]] and whether the name of a website should be placed in the "publisher" parameter if it is not a newspaper or magazine so that it is not displayed in italics. Websites are not among the works that should be italicized per [[MOS:ITALICS]]. This would mean, for example, that "BBC News" in the "website" parameter would need to be moved to the "publisher" parameter so that it doesn't display in italics (although, in this case, the correct publisher would be "British Broadcasting Corporation"). My reasoning against the requested move is that there is no consensus on style to apply to all articles ([[WP:CITEVAR]]) and per [[WP:CITECONSENSUS]], "If citation templates are used in an article, the parameters should be accurate. It is inappropriate to set parameters to false values in order that the template will be rendered to the reader as if it were written in some style other than the style normally produced by the template (e.g., MLA style)." A couple days ago, I spent a couple hours going through the article to make sure that all of the references used the appropriate CS1 template (News, Web, Journal), but I don't think adjusting the references to ensure that only major works (eg. newspapers & magazines) are italicized is necessary. Italicization of works in CS1 references has been discussed numerous times:
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:using:
::<nowiki>{{cite book|last=His|first=Rudoulf|orig-year=1928 |year=1967 |edition= Reprint |publisher=Oldenbourg|title=Geschichte des deutschen Strafrechts bis zur Karolina|asin=B0000BRMK3}}</nowiki>
:In this case, the publisher and place of publication should be for the reprint, not the original. I hope that helps. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
::Awesome, well I made the section [[Talk:Impalement#"reprint" editions]] in regards to the citation.[[Special:Contributions/96.52.0.249|96.52.0.249]] ([[User talk:96.52.0.249|talk]]) 08:20, 21 June 2015 (UTC)
== Feature request: "total_pages" ==
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|author=Mrs. M. Grieve
|accessdate=2008-08-20
|archiveurl=
|archivedate= 9 August 2008 <!--DASHBot-->
|deadurl= no}
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:{{cite web |url=http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/a/apric050.html |work=A Modern Herbal |title=Apricot |publisher= Botanical.com
|author=Mrs. M. Grieve |accessdate=2008-08-20 |archiveurl= http://web.archive.org/web/20080809232203/http://www.botanical.com/botanical/mgmh/a/apric050.html |archivedate= 9 August 2008 |deadurl= no}}
:I don't think {{para|chapter}} is valid for {{tl|cite web}}. What is the {{para|chapter}} in your citation is the {{para|title}} of an individual web page, and what is the {{para|title}} is the name of a {{para|work}} hosted on that web site. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
::Or, alternatively, since this is a book hosted online, use <nowiki>{{cite book |...}}</nowiki>. [[User:Peter coxhead|Peter coxhead]] ([[User talk:Peter coxhead|talk]]) 05:54, 30 June 2015 (UTC)
::: I am non interested about the article [[Apricot oil]], I could also have made the [[Aval]] example or any other of the 4,700 articles that unexpectedly now signal this error. The problem is that in the example I don't see any ''chapter'' parameter, so what ? --[[User:Robertiki|Robertiki]] ([[User talk:Robertiki|talk]]) 02:36, 1 July 2015 (UTC)
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:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 21:48, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
::In that previous discussion, I commented that this should be allowed. The MOS might be silent on this, but we cannot while still providing the facilities to faithfully render the publication information for sources in CS1/CS2. We already override the MOS to capitalize season names when used in citation dates, and I agree with that as it promotes consistency between "January 2005" and "Winter 2005". Since my comments last October, I think that the word "quarter" should also be capitalized in citations for the same consistency reasons. I would also whitelist "Q1 2005" as a standard abbreviation analogous to the abbreviations for month names. This abbreviation convention is already quite common in corporate financial documents, among other places. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
::: Yes, "Quarter"-type publication dates are definitely common in some of the official documents I run across from organizations and businesses when looking for references. I absolutely agree that the by "Quarter" dates should probably be included in the 'date' parameters again, esp. as the MOS is actually silent on "disallowing" their use. --[[User:IJBall|IJBall]] <small>([[Special:Contributions/IJBall|contribs]] • [[User talk:IJBall|talk]])</small> 22:40, 9 July 2015 (UTC)
:Support allowing quarters (and seasons), but question whether this should be directly mingled with, rather than juxtaposed against, date data. For one thing, mingling them could break various tools. For another, many publications use both; the quarter or season is at least as much akin to title data as date data: {{xt|''Journal of Chicken Lips'', June/July 2015 (Summer issue)}}, etc. For a third, they can span multiple quarters or seasons, which spans themselves can cross a year boundary ({{xt|Winter 2014/2015}}, {{xt|4Q 2014 / 1Q 2015}}, etc.) <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 23:25, 30 July 2015 (UTC)
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:Series is italicised in Trappist's example above... - <u>'''[[User:Evad37|Evad]]''37'''''</u> <span style="font-size:95%;">[[[d:w:User talk:Evad37|talk]]]</span> 08:51, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
::It appears that the {{para|series}} parameter is being repurposed. When I started six years ago, it was used in {{tlx|cite journal}} to resolve duplication when the same volume/issue numbers were used for two different issues. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 13:16, 22 July 2015 (UTC)
:::Well, as with {{para|title}} doing something different in different templates, this one needs to as well. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 23:21, 22 July 2015 (UTC)<p>[[Template:Cite journal]] has had {{para|series}} since 26 October 2008 [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Cite_journal&diff=next&oldid=242802643]. [[Template:Cite episode]] has had it since its creation on 4 March 2006 [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template:Cite_episode&action=edit&oldid=42134627]. It may have been around in some other template even longer; not sure. Was added to {{tlx|Cite book}} in 2007, for example. Anyway, it's highly desirable that it italicize in {{tlx|Cite episode}}. I would just go fix it, but I can't due to full protection on the module.<span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 21:47, 24 July 2015 (UTC)</p>
Test: {{Cite episode |title=Athena's Earlobes |episode-link=Rickrolling |url=http://www.google.com |access-date=20 July 2015 |series=Cracksmokin' Buttmonkeys |series-link=Humor |first=Ann |last=Onie-Maus |network=Insipid Broadcasting Network |station=KBLARGH |___location=Weed, New Mexico |date=19 July 2015 |season=2 |number=6 |minutes=48 |transcript=This parameter seems to serve no purpose |transcript-url=http://yandex.com |quote=My chicken has bigger nuggets than yours! |language=Gaelic}}
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:<code><nowiki>{{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Last |first=First |display-authors=etal}}</nowiki></code>
::{{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Last |first=First |display-authors=etal}}
:<code><nowiki>{{cite book/new |title=Title |editor-last=Last |name-list-
::{{cite book/new |title=Title |last=Last |first=First |name-list-
:<code><nowiki>{{cite book/new |title=Title |editor-last=Last |editor-first=First |display-editors=etal}}</nowiki></code>
::{{cite book/new |title=Title |editor-last=Last |editor-first=First |display-editors=etal}}
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:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 16:11, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
::The problem also appears when using {{tl|citation}} where you end up with a meaningless number for the page number. Can we do something to always render the p. or pp. for page number as the colon is not intuitive and we are producing references which are not easily understood by the majority of readers. If this needs a wider discussion then we should set one up so that we can see if there is consensus for change. [[User:Keith D|Keith D]] ([[User talk:Keith D|talk]]) 18:49, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
:::When citing scholarly journals, {{tlx|cite journal}} and {{tlx|citation}} follow the model established and used by scholarly journals: volume (issue): page(s). Why should cs1|2 deviate from that standardized presentation? For example, {{PMID
:::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 23:21, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
::::Problem comes when you are not using the volume and issue fields but just a page number it just shown a number that has no context and which needs something to show its purpose. I would guess that most readers would not know what the number relates to. [[User:Keith D|Keith D]] ([[User talk:Keith D|talk]]) 23:32, 4 August 2015 (UTC)
Line 3,021 ⟶ 3,020:
:::::::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 10:13, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::I have two ideas in this regard. The first is to possibly remove the compressed format for journals and use "vol. 1, no. 2, p. 3" or similar. CMOS16 uses "1, no. 2 (XXX): 3" (where the XXXX is the date or year of publication. This would have the advantage that page numbers would then always be preceded by the appropriate abbreviation, and readers who aren't familiar with the meaning of the bold-faced and bracketed numbers or the colon would have a more explicit frame of reference in the reference.
::::::::::The other idea is to emit the "p." or "pp." as appropriate unless a volume, an issue or both are also defined. So: "'''1''' (2): 3", "'''1''': 3", "(2):3" or just plain "p. 3" would be display options depending on what parameters are defined. The latter idea may be simpler to code, and bots could then strip manually inserted "p." or "pp." to avoid doubling up. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<
:::::::::::I would favour the first option as that removes any ambiguity for the reader. [[User:Keith D|Keith D]] ([[User talk:Keith D|talk]]) 11:41, 5 August 2015 (UTC)
::::::::::::{{replyto|Trappist the monk}} Altering {{noredirect|Template:Cite magazine}} to point to {{tlx|cite news}} instead of {{tlx|cite journal}} should not be undertaken lightly. It has been suggested before, several times, in different venues. For instance, at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Academic Journals/Journals cited by Wikipedia#Unfortunate interaction between template and wikiproject]]. Notice in particular my comment of 14:02, 2 October 2011: whenever I have used {{tlx|cite magazine}}, someone with AWB has popped by and altered it to {{tlx|cite journal}}. So altering the redirect will not fix everything, but will cause a large number of magazine citations that directly use {{tlx|cite journal}} to suddenly become "wrong".
Line 3,045 ⟶ 3,044:
I came across this citation in [[¿Dónde Están Mis Amigos?]]:
{{cite compare |sandbox=yes |mode=web |url=Salaverri, Fernando. Sólo éxitos: año a año : 1959-2002. Iberautor Promociones Culturales, 2005. {{ISBN
The 1999 access date properly throws an error, but the URL does not, even though it probably should. Can the module code be tweaked to detect the above URL value as an error? – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 11:52, 31 July 2015 (UTC)
Line 3,090 ⟶ 3,089:
::::How do we positively identify a URL if it does not have http:// at the start? What pattern do we search for? For some real-life examples of what editors do to the {{para|url}} parameter, look through {{cl|Pages with URL errors}}. At least half of the ones I just looked at would not link to a source if we simply added "http://" to the front of the parameter's value. Those need to be tagged or investigated by a human, something that would not happen without the error message. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 01:12, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
:::::I already gave the pattern to look for (albeit not as a regexp). <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 17:16, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
::::<p>Actually, there's a more trivial use case to consider: the odd website that does not serve content over HTTP but instead HTTPS. Like we do, these days. HTTP happens to redirect but that's a function of the particular website, not a global assumption that can be made. Regardless of what browsers do, I would prefer to see the error rather than gracefully permit an editor to leave off the scheme where it might be the case that the page in question does not use HTTP.</p><p>{{ping|Trappist the monk}} I assume this is the case, but does {{para|archiveurl}} have these checks? --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 17:44, 6 August 2015 (UTC)</p>
:::::yes. It's part of the code that renders a wiki external link so applies to all external links made by the module:
Line 3,120 ⟶ 3,119:
:::{{tq|filibuster[ing] gatekeepers}}: Erm? --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 02:21, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
::::Don't need to get into it in detail here. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 17:14, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
:::::I was looking for a reason for the personal attacks. I agree you don't need to get into it here, and shouldn't have used the phrase at all.<p>That aside, I disagree with the assertion that {{tq|We can actually [[WP:IAR|just do this]] right now}}. Let's figure out whether we want to use cite that way first (there) and then we can make the change (here). --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 17:38, 6 August 2015 (UTC)</p>
::::::It's not up to the CSS page to determine what elements and classes are to be used in Wikipedia. It's up to implementors of templates, etc., to determine what elements and classes they need implemented at the CSS page! You're putting the cart before the horse. More like putting the horse in the driver's seat of the cart. Also, criticism of longstanding editing patterns isn't an "attack". <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 03:15, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
:::::::<p>{{tq|It's not up to the CSS page}} I agree with. I disagree with {{tq|[i]t's up to implementors of templates, etc.}} My position is that you are, intentionally or otherwise, attempting to split discussion of what we ''should'' do with the element. Seeing as the discussion at MW:Common.css was opened prior to this one, my position is also that we should stop commenting here on that point.</p><p>{{tq|Also, criticism of longstanding editing patterns isn't an "attack".}} ''Any'' comment not in accordance with [[WP:NPA|NPA]] is on the wrong track. From that ''policy'', {{tq|Do not make personal attacks anywhere in Wikipedia. Comment on content, not on the contributor.}} In this case, it is clear to me you have commented on the contributors, not the content. If you think that there are problems with the users at that page, [[WP:ANI|ANI]] is -> that way. --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 04:21, 7 August 2015 (UTC)</p>
::::::::{{ping|Izno}} What we should do editorially {{em|with}} the element is entirely a matter for contextual discussion with regard to different templates and other situations, and across MW generally, not just at en.wp. I.e., those are automatically separate discussions. One thing that should be done with {{tag|cite|o}} is, for example, to wrap users' signatures in it on talk pages (when used with <code><nowiki>~~~</nowiki></code> and <code><nowiki>~~~~</nowiki></code>, which is attribution, but not with <code><nowiki>~~~~~</nowiki></code>, which is just a shorthand for date insertion). Something similar should be done around both parameters of {{tlx|Unsigned}}, and the attributive parameter of {{tlx|Talkquote}}. What should be done with it in the citation templates is wrap the entire output with it instead of with {{tag|span|o}}. What should be done with it at [[Template:Quote]] is put it around both the {{para|author}} and {{para|source}} parameters' output if one or both are used, and suppress it otherwise. And so on. I'm sure we can devise many distinct uses and implementations of this semantic metadata markup.</p><p>What we should do technologically {{em|about}} the element at Mediawiki/common.css is obviously to stop force-italicizing it, because that's pointless, wrong for most uses we can put to the element, and it interferes with and prejudices decisions about what we should do editorially {{em|with}} the element. Except when it is essentially impossible to work around, technological considerations never dictate content editing matters here.</p><p>These are completely severable discussions, and {{em|should}} be split. The fact that it's virtually impossible to get the controllers of that interface page to do even simple, commonsense things means that the editorial, context specific discussions necessarily need to address "routing around" this processual "damage" to get the work done. It would be completely ridiculous if 6 months from now we're still not doing the more useful things with this element simply because undoing the forced italics was still being stonewalled at Mediawiki/common.css, a sadly predictable outcome, though I may try an RfC to get it done. I'll also take the matter up with the MW developers, since this italicization doesn't make sense as a MW default to begin with, just as it did not for {{tag|dfn|o}}, but I'll have to bother to figure out the new-ish ticket tracking system. (Haven't filed a MW bug since they quit using Bugzilla.) <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 06:58, 7 August 2015 (UTC)</p>
Line 3,235 ⟶ 3,234:
:::Use {{tlx|cite encyclopedia}} instead, with the same parameters: {{cite encyclopedia |first=A. U.|last=Thor|chapter=My First Chapter|work=My First Book|date=2015}} --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 19:10, 6 August 2015 (UTC)
::::Yet another "use the wrong template, which someone else will just revert later" non-solution. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 03:17, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
== another missed capitalized parameter ==
{{para|Ref}} escaped the purge. Until now. I have deprecated it for reasons of non-standard capitalization.
—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 00:08, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
== Suggestion to expand CS1 maint: Extra text to editor fields ==
Have you considered expanding [[:Category:CS1 maint: Extra text]] to identify when some form of "ed." is in an {{para|editor}} field? For an example, see [[Template:Animal Burnie]]. [[User:GoingBatty|GoingBatty]] ([[User talk:GoingBatty|talk]]) 02:15, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
:May also be worth looking in the {{para|author}} fields to track when the wrong field has been used for editors. [[User:Keith D|Keith D]] ([[User talk:Keith D|talk]]) 11:11, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
{{ec}}
:Yes, but not enough to figure out how to do it. The addition of editor descriptor text is quite common in author parameters; I've found quite a lot of them while trolling through {{cl|Pages containing cite templates with deprecated parameters}}.
:The other 'extra' text in your example is the ampersand:
::{{para|editor|David Burnie & Don E. Wilson (eds)}}
:singular parameter name, multiple editors. There is a whole iceberg there in both {{para|author}} and {{para|editor}} parameters.
:cs1|2 give conflicting instruction to editors. On the one hand they are instructed to leave out extraneous text but on the other hand to add extra text; {{para|credits}} and {{para|others}} come to mind. It is the purpose of the templates to add standardized text to the rendering and pass the names to the metadata. It is very difficult to extract single names from a list of multiple names when the list has no rules – it's the rules that make {{para|vauthors}} possible.
:Yeak, ok, I'm done ranting ...
:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 11:29, 8 August 2015 (UTC)
== extra text in |edition= detection bug ==
There is a bug in the extra text detector. The current detector was intended to find {{para|edition|2nd ed.}} which would render as
:{{cite book |title=Title |edition=2nd ed.}}
But, it also finds the 'ed' at the end of illustrated, revised, etc:
:{{cite book |title=Title |edition=revised}}
So, I've adjusted the test:
:{{cite book/new |title=Title |edition=2nd ed.}} – should find 'ed.'
:{{cite book/new |title=Title |edition=revised}} – should not find 'ed'
—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 11:38, 25 July 2015 (UTC)
:I'm still seeing the error raised with "revised": <code><nowiki>{{Cite book|authorlink=Maynard Solomon|last=Solomon|first=Maynard|title=Beethoven|edition=2nd revised|___location=New York|publisher=Schirmer Books|year=2001|isbn=0-8256-7268-6}}</nowiki></code>:
:*{{Cite book|authorlink=Maynard Solomon|last=Solomon|first=Maynard|title=Beethoven|edition=2nd revised|___location=New York|publisher=Schirmer Books|year=2001|isbn=0-8256-7268-6}} <-- shows "{{Font color|green|CS1 maint: Extra text}} ([[:Category:CS1 maint: Extra text|link]])"
:but not in {{tl|Cite book/new}}:
:*{{Cite book/new|authorlink=Maynard Solomon|last=Solomon|first=Maynard|title=Beethoven|edition=2nd revised|___location=New York|publisher=Schirmer Books|year=2001|isbn=0-8256-7268-6}}
:Any reason why {{tl|Cite book/new}} cannot be deployed? -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 13:42, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
::{{tlx|cite book/new}} is the same as {{tlx|cite book}} except that it uses the sandbox version of [[Module:Citation/CS1]]. Because every change to the live module dumps a couple of million articles on the job queue, we collect multiple changes in the sandbox before updating the live module.
::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 14:44, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
== AWB or bot opportunity to fix 1000+ missing author errors ==
There are over 1,000 (around 1,200, I think) articles on towns in India that have citations with a {{para|first}} but no {{para|last}}. I have changed a few hundred of these from {{para|first}} to {{para|publisher}}, but my fingers are getting tired. If someone with AWB or some nice bot code wants to have a go at them, do a search for this:
insource:/\|first=Registrar General...Census Commissioner, India/
[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Uttangi&diff=prev&oldid=675307661 Here] is a sample change.
If it would help to have a list of these article titles, let me know, and I'll compile one. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 20:10, 9 August 2015 (UTC)
:Note that since the most recent edit to the CS1 module, these citations with a {{para|first}} but no {{para|last}} no longer generate a missing author error. The example article you give no longer shows a missing author error if you look at the revision[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Uttangi&oldid=524465858] immediately before your edit. The count of articles populating {{cl|CS1 errors: missing author or editor}} has dropped precipitously since the recent edit to the CS1 module, from almost 9000 articles to a current count of roughly 1300. [[User:Stamptrader|Stamptrader]] ([[User talk:Stamptrader|talk]]) 00:22, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
::Fixed in the sandbox. See [[Help_talk:Citation_Style_1#Missing_author_without_error_message|Missing author without error message]]
::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 00:28, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
:::True, but these are definitely errors, and they are all of the same type, so a script or bot should be able to fix them quickly and easily. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 03:34, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
== DOI throwing an error ==
{{Disregard|PEBCAK!}}
The DOI found [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19236565 here] is not accepted by the DOI checking code called by {{tlx|Cite journal}}. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 16:54, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
:(Edit conflict: Trappist, you accidentally removed my earlier comment.)
:Looks ok to me: {{cite journal
| last1 = Pérez-García | first1 = Alejandro
| last2 = Romero | first2 = Diego
| last3 = Fernández-Ortuño | first3 = Dolores
| last4 = López-Ruiz | first4 = Francisco
| last5 = De Vicente | first5 = Antonio
| last6 = Torés | first6 = Juan A.
| doi = 10.1111/j.1364-3703.2008.00527.x
| issue = 2
| journal = Molecular Plant Pathology
| pages = 153–160
| title = The powdery mildew fungus Podosphaera fusca (synonym ''Podosphaera xanthii''), a constant threat to cucurbits
| volume = 10
| year = 2009}} Maybe you're incorrectly including the period that pubmed puts after it? —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 17:04, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
::Not intentionally.
::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 17:10, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
:Don't include the terminal period that PubMed includes:
::{{cite journal |title=Title |journal=Journal |doi=10.1111/j.1364-3703.2008.00527.x.}}
:The doi checking code looks for a terminal comma or period. If one of those is found, the code emits the error message. Was the [[Help:CS1_errors#bad_doi|help text]] insufficient to the task?
:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 17:06, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
:@David: Ah, yeah, that would be it. Derp. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 17:07, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
:@Trappist: Yeah, it says "Check {{para|doi}} value ([[Help:CS1_errors#bad_doi|help]])", and I looked at the help but somehow did not see "does not end with punctuation". Total PEBCAK on my part. Time for coffee. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 17:30, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
== vancouver errors ==
From [[AKAP12]] this cite:
:<code><nowiki>{{cite journal | vauthors = Lin F, Wang Hy, Malbon CC | title = Gravin-mediated formation of signaling complexes in beta 2-adrenergic receptor desensitization and resensitization | journal = J. Biol. Chem. | volume = 275 | issue = 25 | pages = 19025–34 | year = 2000 | pmid = 10858453 | doi = 10.1074/jbc.275.25.19025 }}</nowiki></code>
::{{cite journal | vauthors = Lin F, Wang Hy, Malbon CC | title = Gravin-mediated formation of signaling complexes in beta 2-adrenergic receptor desensitization and resensitization | journal = J. Biol. Chem. | volume = 275 | issue = 25 | pages = 19025–34 | year = 2000 | pmid = 10858453 | doi = 10.1074/jbc.275.25.19025 }}
The error occurs because the second author includes a lowercase initial. The author's name, according to the doi link is Hsien-yu Wang.
According to [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK7282/#A32371 Citing Medicine: The NLM Style Guide for Authors, Editors, and Publishers] surnames are listed first followed by one or two uppercase initials. In this case, because the author is Asian, Hsien-yu is the surname and Wang the given name. Has PubMed got it wrong?
What advice should be given at [[Help:CS1 errors#Vancouver style error|Vancouver style error]] to editors who encounter this sort of error?
—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 15:37, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
:Few editors follow this page. You might to better to ask at the humanities reference desk about how asian authors shorten their name when using the Roman alphabet. Then there is the additional problem of how journals that use Vancouver style shorten the names of asian authors, which could be different. [[User:Jc3s5h|Jc3s5h]] ([[User talk:Jc3s5h|talk]]) 16:19, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
{{Ping|Trappist the monk}} It's also unlikely that the order given is wrong. Chinese names in the form Foo-bar are usually given names, so a Western source would be likely to call this person Hsien-yu Wang, who would be Wang Hsien-yu at home, and the proper family-name-first version in the Western bibliographic style is Wang, Hsien-yu. The "Foo-bar" convention is not universal, and the same name will often be rendered "Foo-Bar", and sometimes "Foo Bar" or even "Foobar", depending on how sources treat Chinese names in latin script. I encounter this issue a lot in [[cue sports]] writing, since China fields many players of pool, snooker, and carom billiards. "Foo-bar" seems to be something of a {{em|spreading}} convention, but it may vary geographically (you have Taiwan, Hong Kong, Macau, and Singapore to factor in, plus Chinese diaspora in the US, etc., and it's highly unlikely they're all converging on exactly the same format). Anyway, the point being you can get away with "Wang HY". <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 17:05, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
:Even western authors with hyphenated names should sometimes have the second part of the name included in the initials. And sometimes the correct initials really do include lower-case letters. I have a Belgian co-author named Jean-Claude who insists that the correct abbreviation of his name is J.-Cl. On the other hand I know a Japanese author named Ken-ichi who wants his name abbreviated K. rather than K.-I. or K.-i. My general feeling is that any attempt to automatically deduce how to rearrange human names is doomed to at least occasional failure (as usual, see [http://www.kalzumeus.com/2010/06/17/falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names/ "Falsehoods Programmers Believe About Names"]) so it is essential that there be some workaround that we can use when the machines get it wrong. In this case, "Hy" is the correct Vancouver initialization and there should be some way of persuading the template to allow it. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 17:21, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
:: Agreed. – S.McC.<br />PS: I wasn't meaning to imply "do the wrong thing to make the template happy", but rather that since the name is a transliteration anyway, in a style that's not used consistently, that it might not matter in this case. There are Europeans who abbreviate names like Christophe as "Ch.", so my lackadaisicalness on this wouldn't help them. <span style="white-space:nowrap;font-family:'Trebuchet MS'"> — [[User:SMcCandlish|'''SMcCandlish''' ☺]] [[User talk:SMcCandlish|☏]] [[Special:Contributions/SMcCandlish|¢]] ≽<sup>ʌ</sup>ⱷ҅<sub>ᴥ</sub>ⱷ<sup>ʌ</sup>≼ </span> 17:37, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
::The rules for Vancouver system author name lists prohibit hyphens in the given name initials, see: [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK7282/box/A33104/ Given names containing punctuation, a prefix, a preposition, or particle]. The error mentioned at the start of this conversation is not the result of an {{tq|attempt to automatically deduce how to rearrange [a] human name}}, but arises because [[Module:Citation/CS1]] cannot know if the lowercase 'y' is intentionally lowercase (cases like this or as the result of Romanization: Θ → Th) or a typo. The error can be suppressed after review by treating the name as an institutional name: {{para|vauthors|Lin F, ((Wang Hy)), Malbon CC}}
::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 15:13, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
==How to cite letter in CS1?==
I would like to cite the letter found [http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=76999 here]. The hard copy of the letter appears to be held by the [[National Archives and Records Administration]] (NARA) in a box titled "HSCA Segregated CIA Collection, Box 19", and they appear to refer to the letter as "NARA Record Number: 1993.08.02.09:31:14:370053". If I use {{tlx|cite letter}}, then...
:<nowiki>{{cite letter |first=Sturgis |last=Frank |recipient=Gene Wilson |subject=Pre-freedom of information request notice of charges |date=May 7, 1976 |url=http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=76999 |accessdate=August 11, 2015}}</nowiki>
...gives me...
:{{cite letter |first=Sturgis |last=Frank |recipient=Gene Wilson |subject=Pre-freedom of information request notice of charges |date=May 7, 1976 |url=http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=76999 |accessdate=August 11, 2015}}
Unfortunately, with the above template I don't believe I am able to note additional information about where this original document may be found, such as the {{para|id}} noted above. Is there something similar in CS1 that I can use? If so, what is the equivalent of {{para|recipient}} in CS1? Also, should {{para|title}} be "Letter from Frank Sturgis to Gene Wilson" or the subject noted by the author, and NARA, as "Pre-freedom of information request notice of charges"? Sorry for so many questions. Thanks! - [[User:Location|Location]] ([[User talk:Location|talk]]) 20:29, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
:Try:
::<nowiki>{{cite letter |first=Sturgis |last=Frank |recipient=Gene Wilson |subject=Pre-freedom of information request notice of charges |date=May 7, 1976 |url=http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=76999 |accessdate=August 11, 2015 |via= National Archives and Records Administration (HSCA Segregated CIA Collection, Box 19) |id= NARA Record Number 1993.08.02.09:31:14:370053 }}</nowiki>
:which gives:
::{{cite letter |first=Sturgis |last=Frank |recipient=Gene Wilson |subject=Pre-freedom of information request notice of charges |date=May 7, 1976 |url=http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=76999 |accessdate=August 11, 2015 |via= National Archives and Records Administration (HSCA Segregated CIA Collection, Box 19) |id= NARA Record Number 1993.08.02.09:31:14:370053 }}
:I just added {{para|id}} to the template, and {{para|via}} was already there. <span style="background:#006B54; padding:2px;">'''[[User:Imzadi1979|<span style="color:white">Imzadi 1979</span>]] [[User talk:Imzadi1979|<big style="color:white">→</big>]]'''</span> 20:51, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
:Are you citing the hard copy? Have you actually seen the hard copy? If not, and you are citing the copy at the Mary Ferrell Foundation website, then the direct cs1 equivalent to {{tlx|cite letter}} would be {{tlx|cite web}} ([[WP:SAYWHEREYOUGOTIT]] applies). It should be noted that {{tld|cite letter}} is a meta-template of {{tlx|cite news}}. Such a citation might look like this:
::<code><nowiki>{{cite web |last=Sturgis |first=Frank |title=Pre-freedom of information request notice of charges |type=Letter to Gene Wilson |website=Mary Ferrell Foundation |date=May 7, 1976 |url=http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=76999 |accessdate=August 11, 2015}}</nowiki></code>
:::{{cite web |last=Sturgis |first=Frank |title=Pre-freedom of information request notice of charges |type=Letter to Gene Wilson |website=Mary Ferrell Foundation |date=May 7, 1976 |url=http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=76999 |accessdate=August 11, 2015}}
:In your example, {{para|last}} and {{para|first}} are swapped; the writer's name if 'Frank Sturgis'.
:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 21:01, 12 August 2015 (UTC)
::[[User:Imzadi1979|Imzadi1979]], [[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]]: Thanks for the feedback! - [[User:Location|Location]] ([[User talk:Location|talk]]) 22:49, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
I think the advice to use {{tl|cite web}} instead of a more specific citation type for a source found on the web rather than through hardcopy is wrongheaded. When we find books online through Google books, we should use {{tl|cite book}}, not {{tl|cite web}}. When we find academic journal articles online at their official publisher's online repository, we should use {{tl|cite journal}}, not {{tl|cite web}}, even for journals that have no print edition and are only online. And for the same reason, if we are viewing a facsimile of a written letter, we should still use {{tl|cite letter}}. —[[User:David Eppstein|David Eppstein]] ([[User talk:David Eppstein|talk]]) 23:51, 13 August 2015 (UTC)
:Yes, this is why the {{para|url}} parameter is not confined to {{tlx|cite web}} but is included in all the others. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 12:12, 14 August 2015 (UTC)
== error handling for parameters with defined values ==
As the result of a conversation [[User_talk:GoingBatty#Removing_p_from_ref_pages_parameter|elsewhere]], I have added a function <code>is_valid_parameter_value()</code> that checks a parameter's value against a list of accepted values. If the parameter value is not a member of the accepted list, the function emits an invalid parameter error. There is code in the current live module that detects these kinds of errors for {{para|mde}} and {{para|name-list-format}}. This new code extends that functionality to several other parameters.
;{{para|nopp}}
:accepted values are 'yes', 'true', 'y'
:*{{cite book/new |title=Title: nopp=y |page=pp. 45-46 |nopp=y}}
:*{{cite book/new |title=Title: nopp=true |page=pp. 45-46 |nopp=true}}
:*{{cite book/new |title=Title: nopp=yes |page=pp. 45-46 |nopp=yes}}
:*{{cite book/new |title=Title: nopp=1 |page=pp. 45-46 |nopp=1}}
;{{para|name-list-format}}
:accepted value is 'vanc'
:*{{cite book/new |title=Title: name-list-format=vanc |name-list-style=vanc |last=Last |first=Fred George |last2=Laster |first2=A. B. |last3=Lastest |first3=First}}
:*{{cite book/new |title=Title: name-list-format=venc |name-list-format=venc |last=Last |first=Fred George |last2=Laster |first2=A. B. |last3=Lastest |first3=First}}
;{{para|mode}} – accepted values are 'cs1', 'cs2'
:*{{citation/new |title=Title: mode=cs1 |mode=cs1 |last=Last |first=Fred George |last2=Laster |first2=A. B. |last3=Lastest |first3=First}}
:*{{cite book/new |title=Title: mode=cs2 |mode=cs2 |last=Last |first=Fred George |last2=Laster |first2=A. B. |last3=Lastest |first3=First}}
:*{{cite book/new |title=Title: mode=cs3 |mode=cs3 |last=Last |first=Fred George |last2=Laster |first2=A. B. |last3=Lastest |first3=First}}
;{{para|dead-url}}
:accepted values are 'yes', 'true', 'y', 'no'
:*{{cite web/new |url=//example.com |title=Title: dead-url=y |dead-url=y |archive-url=//example.org |archive-date=2015-08-07}}
:*{{cite web/new |url=//example.com |title=Title: dead-url=true |dead-url=true |archive-url=//example.org |archive-date=2015-08-07}}
:*{{cite web/new |url=//example.com |title=Title: dead-url=yes |dead-url=yes |archive-url=//example.org |archive-date=2015-08-07}}
:*{{cite web/new |url=//example.com |title=Title: dead-url=no |dead-url=no |archive-url=//example.org |archive-date=2015-08-07}}
:*{{cite web/new |url=//example.com |title=Title: dead-url=f |dead-url=f |archive-url=//example.org |archive-date=2015-08-07}}
;{{para|subscription}}
:accepted values are 'yes', 'true', 'y'
:*{{cite book/new |title=Title: subscription=y |subscription=y}}
:*{{cite book/new |title=Title: subscription=true |subscription=true}}
:*{{cite book/new |title=Title: subscription=yes |subscription=yes}}
:*{{cite book/new |title=Title: subscription=1 |subscription=1}}
;{{para|registration}}
:accepted values are 'yes', 'true', 'y'
:*{{cite book/new |title=Title: registration=y |registration=y}}
:*{{cite book/new |title=Title: registration=true |registration=true}}
:*{{cite book/new |title=Title: registration=yes |registration=yes}}
:*{{cite book/new |title=Title: registration=1 |registration=1}}
Have I missed any others?
—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 17:11, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
:I did:
;;{{para|ignore-isbn-error}}
::accepted values are 'yes', 'true', 'y'
::*{{cite book/new |title=Title: ignore-isbn-error=y |ignore-isbn-error=y |isbn=1234567890}}
::*{{cite book/new |title=Title: ignore-isbn-error=true |ignore-isbn-error=true |isbn=1234567890}}
::*{{cite book/new |title=Title: ignore-isbn-error=yes |ignore-isbn-error=yes |isbn=1234567890}}
::*{{cite book/new |title=Title: ignore-isbn-error=1 |ignore-isbn-error=1 |isbn=1234567890}}
;;{{para|no-tracking}}
::accepted values are 'yes', 'true', 'y'
::*{{cite book/new |title=Title: no-tracking=y |no-tracking=y}}
::*{{cite book/new |title=Title: no-tracking=true |no-tracking=true}}
::*{{cite book/new |title=Title: no-tracking=yes |no-tracking=yes}}
::*{{cite book/new |title=Title: no-tracking=1 |no-tracking=1}}
:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 17:43, 7 August 2015 (UTC)
::and another:
;;;{{para|last-author-amp}}
:::accepted values are 'yes', 'true', 'y'
:::*{{cite book/new |title=Title: last-author-amp=y }}
:::*{{cite book/new |title=Title: last-author-amp=true }}
:::*{{cite book/new |title=Title: last-author-amp=yes }}
:::*{{cite book/new |title=Title: last-author-amp=1 }}
::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 14:46, 10 August 2015 (UTC)
:::I've created a table of keywords in [[Module:Citation/CS1/Configuration/sandbox]] so that the keywords can be defined and the same reused; 'yes, true, y' is used for several parameters – no need to keep separate lists.
:::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 17:19, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
::::Why [[reinvent the wheel]], when we have {{tlx|yesno}}? --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 17:34, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
:::::template vs module.
:::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 17:39, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
::::::[[Module:Yesno]] does exist. My concern using it in general would be that in a number of cases we don't have a boolean consideration (e.g. yes v. no) but instead an enumerated comparison. --[[User:Izno|Izno]] ([[User talk:Izno|talk]]) 19:02, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
== |script-chapter= ==
Following up on [[Help talk:Citation Style 1/Archive 8#.7Cscript-chapter.3D .3F|this conversation]], I've added {{para|script-chapter}}. Styling and order of rendered chapter parts follows the same rules as {{para|script-title}}:
:<code><nowiki>{{cite book/new |title=Tōkyō tawā |script-title=ja:東京タワー |trans-title=Tokyo Tower}}</nowiki></code>
::{{cite book/new |title=Tōkyō tawā |script-title=ja:東京タワー |trans-title=Tokyo Tower}}
Here are those same parameter values moved to their chapter equivalents:
:<code><nowiki>{{cite book/new |title=Title |chapter=Tōkyō tawā |script-chapter=ja:東京タワー |trans-chapter=Tokyo Tower}}</nowiki></code>
::{{cite book/new |title=Title |chapter=Tōkyō tawā |script-chapter=ja:東京タワー |trans-chapter=Tokyo Tower}}
and with a link:
:<code><nowiki>{{cite book/new |title=Title |chapter=Tōkyō tawā |script-chapter=ja:東京タワー |trans-chapter=Tokyo Tower |chapter-url=//example.com}}</nowiki></code>
::{{cite book/new |title=Title |chapter=Tōkyō tawā |script-chapter=ja:東京タワー |trans-chapter=Tokyo Tower |chapter-url=//example.com}}
I wonder if the {{para|script-chapter}} value should be quoted when rendered especially in the case where the template also has {{para|script-title}} without {{para|title}}:
:<code><nowiki>{{cite book/new |script-title=ja:東京タワー |script-chapter=ja:東京タワー}}</nowiki></code>
::{{cite book/new |script-title=ja:東京タワー |script-chapter=ja:東京タワー}}
Still to do: include {{para|script-chapter}}value in the metadata; support {{para|script-title}} and {{para|script-chapter}} in {{tlx|cite encyclopedia}} and {{tlx|cite episode}}.
—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 11:37, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
:Metadata support added, {{tlx|cite episode}} code tweaked which resolves [[Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_8#trans-title_.2F_script-title_mismatch_in_Cite_episode.3F|this issue]], and {{tlx|cite encyclopedia}} code tweaked which resolves [[Help_talk:Citation_Style_1/Archive_6#Strange_interaction_between_.7B.7BCite_encyclopedia.7D.7D_and_.7Cscript-title.3D|this issue]].
:—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 12:50, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
== time to abandon protocol relative urls for the predefined identifiers? ==
There is a move afoot to replace http:// and relative protocol (//) with https: for certain urls in article space and in {{para|url}} in citations. These replacements mostly involve Google, YouTube, and Internet Archive. In September 2013, [[Module:Citation/CS1]] converted all of the identifier urls that could be converted to relative protocol. That was a time when logged-in users used https: but users who weren't logged in used http:. Since then, Wikimedia has migrated everyone to using https:. Part of the reason for the module's switch to protocol relative urls was to prevent switching back and forth from secure (at Wikipedia) to not-secure (the identifier's site).
It appears that all but two of the predefined identifiers supported by the module and that use external links can be accessed using https:. The two that cannot be accessed are bibcode and LCCN. Here is a list of the identifiers with the various flavors of url:
{{div col}}
* ARXIV :
** [http://arxiv.org/abs/0709.0674 http://arxiv.org/abs/0709.0674]
** [https://arxiv.org/abs/0709.0674 https://arxiv.org/abs/0709.0674]
** [//arxiv.org/abs/0709.0674 //arxiv.org/abs/0709.0674]
*ASIN :
** [http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00086U61Y http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00086U61Y]
** [https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00086U61Y https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00086U61Y]
** [//www.amazon.com/dp/B00086U61Y //www.amazon.com/dp/B00086U61Y]
* BIBCODE :
** [http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007A&A...474..653V http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007A&A...474..653V]
** [https://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007A&A...474..653V https://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007A&A...474..653V] – does not work
** [//adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007A&A...474..653V //adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/2007A&A...474..653V] – does not work
* DOI :
** [http://dx.doi.org/10.3998/3336451.0004.203 http://dx.doi.org/10.3998/3336451.0004.203]
** [https://dx.doi.org/10.3998/3336451.0004.203 https://dx.doi.org/10.3998/3336451.0004.203]
** [//dx.doi.org/10.3998/3336451.0004.203 //dx.doi.org/10.3998/3336451.0004.203]
* ISSN :
** [http://www.worldcat.org/issn/0028-0836 http://www.worldcat.org/issn/0028-0836]
** [https://www.worldcat.org/issn/0028-0836 https://www.worldcat.org/issn/0028-0836]
** [//www.worldcat.org/issn/0028-0836 //www.worldcat.org/issn/0028-0836]
* JFM :
** [http://zbmath.org/?format=complete&q=an:54.0271.04 http://zbmath.org/?format=complete&q=an:54.0271.04]
** [https://zbmath.org/?format=complete&q=an:54.0271.04 https://zbmath.org/?format=complete&q=an:54.0271.04]
** [//zbmath.org/?format=complete&q=an:54.0271.04 //zbmath.org/?format=complete&q=an:54.0271.04]
* JSTOR :
** [http://www.jstor.org/stable/2118559 http://www.jstor.org/stable/2118559]
** [https://www.jstor.org/stable/2118559 https://www.jstor.org/stable/2118559]
** [//www.jstor.org/stable/2118559 //www.jstor.org/stable/2118559]
* LCCN :
** [http://lccn.loc.gov/sn2006058112 http://lccn.loc.gov/sn2006058112]
** [https://lccn.loc.gov/sn2006058112 https://lccn.loc.gov/sn2006058112] – does not work
** [//lccn.loc.gov/sn2006058112 //lccn.loc.gov/sn2006058112] – does not work
* MR :
** [http://www.ams.org/mathscinet-getitem?mr=96d:11071 http://www.ams.org/mathscinet-getitem?mr=96d:11071]
** [https://www.ams.org/mathscinet-getitem?mr=96d:11071 https://www.ams.org/mathscinet-getitem?mr=96d:11071]
** [//www.ams.org/mathscinet-getitem?mr=96d:11071 //www.ams.org/mathscinet-getitem?mr=96d:11071]
* OCLC :
** [http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/22239204 http://www.worldcat.org/oclc/22239204]
** [https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/22239204 https://www.worldcat.org/oclc/22239204]
** [//www.worldcat.org/oclc/22239204 //www.worldcat.org/oclc/22239204]
* OL
** [http://openlibrary.org/authors/OL18319A http://openlibrary.org/authors/OL18319A]
** [https://openlibrary.org/authors/OL18319A https://openlibrary.org/authors/OL18319A]
** [//openlibrary.org/authors/OL18319A //openlibrary.org/authors/OL18319A]
* OSTI :
** [http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=6851152 http://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=6851152]
** [https://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=6851152 https://www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=6851152]
** [//www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=6851152 //www.osti.gov/energycitations/product.biblio.jsp?osti_id=6851152]
* PMC :
** [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1408034 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1408034]
** [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1408034 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1408034]
** [//www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1408034 //www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1408034]
* PMID :
** [http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12122621 http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12122621]
** [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12122621 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12122621]
** [//www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12122621 //www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12122621]
* RFC :
** [http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc882 http://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc882]
** [https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc882 https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc882]
** [//tools.ietf.org/html/rfc882 //tools.ietf.org/html/rfc882]
* SSRN :
** [http://ssrn.com/abstract=512922 http://ssrn.com/abstract=512922]
** [https://ssrn.com/abstract=512922 https://ssrn.com/abstract=512922]
** [//ssrn.com/abstract=512922 //ssrn.com/abstract=512922]
* ZBL :
** [http://zbmath.org/?format=complete&q=an:0823.11029 http://zbmath.org/?format=complete&q=an:0823.11029]
** [https://zbmath.org/?format=complete&q=an:0823.11029 https://zbmath.org/?format=complete&q=an:0823.11029]
** [//zbmath.org/?format=complete&q=an:0823.11029 //zbmath.org/?format=complete&q=an:0823.11029]
{{div col end}}
Is there any need to continue to support protocol relative urls for these identifiers?
—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 22:41, 15 August 2015 (UTC)
:If everyone is using https, then protocol-relative links would use https also. Why change <code>//</code> to <code>https://</code>? It seems like another source of potential typos and errors. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 00:34, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
:Then for bibcode and lccn, we make sure that all links are explicitly http: - since the rest are all working in each available method, we leave these links alone. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 08:04, 16 August 2015 (UTC)
::You can't be here (on Wikipedia) without your browser supports an https: connection. If the identifier sites support an https: connection (and all do except bibcode and LCCN) then there is no need for us to support the protocol relative scheme. For identifiers, editors don't have to type a url so I'm not clear on how this change would be a source of typos and errors. Can you expand on that?
::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 12:45, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
:::So the "https:" would be added by the module only for the identifiers linked above? In that case, I'm fine with that. The first sentence of this section made it sound like we were going to go around replacing "//" with "https:", which sounded unnecessary and potentially harmful.
:::Again, though, if it's not currently broken, I don't see why we should fix it. If it is broken in some way that I do not understand, I'll go along with it. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 14:47, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
::::One conversation about changing http: to https: is [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(policy)#HTTP_vs_HTTPS...|here]]. We change lots of stuff that isn't 'broken' for a variety of reasons. This is just another of those.
::::—[[User:Trappist the monk|Trappist the monk]] ([[User talk:Trappist the monk|talk]]) 15:13, 17 August 2015 (UTC)
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