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:What ''point'' do you claim he was trying to make? What policy was he trying to discredit? How are ''any'' of the actions you list even relevant to [[WP:POINTY]]? [[User:ExplodingCabbage|ExplodingCabbage]] ([[User talk:ExplodingCabbage#top|talk]]) 07:17, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
::[[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion]] <span style="border:1px solid green; padding:0 2px">[[User:The Banner|<span style="color:green">The Banner</span>]] [[User talk:The Banner|<i style="color:maroon">talk</i>]]</span> 11:54, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
:::Whether or not he was applying the speedy deletion rules correctly (not sure, would have to scrutinize the rules carefully to form an opinion), it seems very obvious to me that @[[User:PeeJay|PeeJay]] wanted the disambiguation page deleted in order to allow the rename to be undone, which he was advocating for because he sincerely believed undoing the rename was the right thing to do. I do not see any plausible interpretation of his actions where they were all a scheme to discredit the speedy deletion criteria, and I don't really see how you can believe that they were.
:::(In particular, I ''really'' don't see how you can view the act of giving up on the speedy deletion once it was challenged and making a move request instead as being meant to discredit the speedy deletion criteria. How could that ''possibly'' work?) [[User:ExplodingCabbage|ExplodingCabbage]] ([[User talk:ExplodingCabbage#top|talk]]) 12:10, 3 October 2024 (UTC)
== [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|Proposed deletion]] of [[:Abdul Hai (politician)]] ==
[[File:Ambox warning yellow.svg|left|link=|alt=Notice|48px|]]
The article [[:Abdul Hai (politician)]] has been [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed for deletion]] because of the following concern:
<blockquote>'''Title is ambiguous - both [[Abdul Hai (UK politician)]] and [[Abdul Hai (Bangladeshi politician)]] are politicians. Furthermore there is already a disambig page at [[Abdul Hai]], so I see no reason to create a second one. Suggest we simply delete this page.'''</blockquote>
While all constructive contributions to Wikipedia are appreciated, pages may be [[WP:DEL#REASON|deleted for any of several reasons]].
You may prevent the proposed deletion by removing the {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} notice, but please explain why in your [[Help:edit summary|edit summary]] or on [[Talk:Abdul Hai (politician)|the article's talk page]].
Please consider improving the page to address the issues raised. Removing {{Tlc|proposed deletion/dated}} will stop the [[Wikipedia:Proposed deletion|proposed deletion process]], but other [[Wikipedia:deletion process|deletion process]]es exist. In particular, the [[Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion|speedy deletion]] process can result in deletion without discussion, and [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion|articles for deletion]] allows discussion to reach [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for deletion.<!-- Template:Proposed deletion notify -->
'''<span style="color: red;">This bot DID NOT nominate any of your contributions for deletion; please refer to the [[Help:Introduction to navigating Wikipedia/4|history]] of each individual page for details.</span>''' Thanks, [[User:FastilyBot|FastilyBot]] ([[User talk:FastilyBot|talk]]) 10:00, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
:@[[User:Fastily|Fastily]] this is an amusing failure mode of your bot - it's notifying me of a deletion proposal ''that I proposed'', on the automatically-created redirect page left behind when I renamed a page.
:It's no big deal (and I don't know if it's technically difficult), but it'd be neat if your bot could check who proposed a page's deletion and avoided notifying authors of deletions they proposed themselves. [[User:ExplodingCabbage|ExplodingCabbage]] ([[User talk:ExplodingCabbage#top|talk]]) 12:26, 5 October 2024 (UTC)
::That's not how this works. There is no prod for redirects created as a result of a move. Barring extenuating circumstances, there is generally no good reason to delete these. If you think the redirect should be deleted, then please use [[Wikipedia:Redirects for discussion|RfD]]. -[[User talk:Fastily|<span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';color:Indigo;font-weight:bold;font-variant-caps:small-caps;font-size:120%;">Fastily</span>]] 00:54, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
:::That may be (and the admin who removed the proposal template would seem to agree with you), but it's orthogonal to the point I was making to you here, which is that there's no point in the bot notifying me about my own proposals. [[User:ExplodingCabbage|ExplodingCabbage]] ([[User talk:ExplodingCabbage#top|talk]]) 07:31, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
::::You made a mistake because you failed to read/follow instructions. I'm not going to change the bot to account for errors like this. -[[User talk:Fastily|<span style="font-family:'Trebuchet MS';color:Indigo;font-weight:bold;font-variant-caps:small-caps;font-size:120%;">Fastily</span>]] 09:27, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
:::::Yes, this proposal was a mistake. But there is no reason that a valid, non-mistaken PROD couldn't be made on one's own article; the suggestion here doesn't in any way hinge on the particular merits on my PROD. [[User:ExplodingCabbage|ExplodingCabbage]] ([[User talk:ExplodingCabbage#top|talk]]) 11:37, 6 October 2024 (UTC)
== Abdul Hai ==
I like the article, though you belabour his non-conviction. He is, by the way, a close friend of [[Keir Starmer]], and helped him get selected for the 2015 GE (Starmer attempted to repay the favour this year, unsuccessfully). [[Special:Contributions/2.101.99.164|2.101.99.164]] ([[User talk:2.101.99.164|talk]]) 20:24, 7 October 2024 (UTC)
:Thanks!
:I personally felt like everything in the non-conviction section was relevant and necessary to portray the whole picture - that he was acquitted, that this (if we suppose the note given to Miah's lawyers was genuine) perversely happened despite the jury actually being convinced he was guilty of murder and ready to convict (... but perhaps only because it was a racist jury), that he denies having even been present, that he's taken legal action to suppress accusations against him, and that at least some such accusations that we're able to see (like Tommy Robinson's) are undeniably false and that he's suffered personally due to the aura of suspicion around him. I think eliminating any element of that leaves the reader with a meaningfully incomplete picture. That said, you are certainly welcome to edit or to argue for changes on the Talk page, and having written the entire first version of the article I'll try to step back and let others reshape it in any reasonable way they see fit.
:The closeness to Starmer was mentioned in the OPEN Newham article I cited and I think I saw people say the same thing on Twitter, and of course Hai notes having worked with Starmer on his personal website, but I didn't really find any ''mainstream'' sources acknowledging their friendship. (OPEN Newham seems to be a fairly nasty political gossip rag and some of their content is satire; I didn't want to rely on them as a source for hard facts, only for opinionated commentary.) Do you have a solid source noting the friendship between the two of them that we could cite or do you know this stuff from unciteable insider knowledge? It would be good to include, but only if we can do so in a policy-compliant way. [[User:ExplodingCabbage|ExplodingCabbage]] ([[User talk:ExplodingCabbage#top|talk]]) 13:26, 8 October 2024 (UTC)
::There's very little written down, let alone citeable. But I can tell you along similar lines (even if it can't be included in articles) that it will have been Mishcon de Reya who reported the tweet. And that his claims of having 'suffered' are absolute junk. Forget Morgan McSweeney personally intervening to stop him from becoming an MP; Abdul Hai would never have even been a councillor if Richard Everitt hadn't been murdered. You are, of course, absolutely correct that Tommy Robinson's tweet that he was convicted is completely false. [[Special:Contributions/2.101.99.164|2.101.99.164]] ([[User talk:2.101.99.164|talk]]) 19:20, 15 October 2024 (UTC)
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:What do you think is wrong with the existing non-Vanguard sources? Of course there are two non-independent sources too (the ones by Vanguard, owned by Seddon, who coined the concept), but there are three academic sources and one UK government one cited that are all specifically about failure demand and (so far as I can see) independent of Seddon. Is your concern that these four sources are in some sense not "secondary"? (I'm not really sure how to apply the concept of primary vs secondary here; I'm not sure if the distinction even makes sense in this context.) What sort of alternative sources would you like to see? [[User:ExplodingCabbage|ExplodingCabbage]] ([[User talk:ExplodingCabbage#top|talk]]) 13:30, 21 March 2025 (UTC)
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