Wikipedia talk:Date formatting and linking poll: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 02:33, 16 March 2022

Latest revision as of 12:34, 7 June 2025

(7 intermediate revisions by 3 users not shown)

Line 1:

{{Calm}}

{{Archive box|auto=long}}

{{shortcut|WT:DATEPOLL}}

Line 5 ⟶ 4:

== Bug filed ==

With a great deal of thanks to [[User|MZMcBride]], I finally managed to get disabling DynamicDates (setting $wgUseDynamicDates = false in LocalSettings.php) tested on a private wiki. The results are good - autoformatting of article text is disabled, whilst date preferences in article histories/logs are left intact. I've therefore gone and filed a bug [[bugzilla:18479|here]] to make the change. '''Please keep discussion here, so to avoid filling the bug request up with threaded discussion and I'll link from the bug to here'''. '''[[User:Ryan Postlethwaite|<fontspan colorstyle="color:green;">Ryan</fontspan> <fontspan colorstyle="color:purple;">Postlethwaite</fontspan>]]^{See [[Special:Contributions/Ryan Postlethwaite|the mess I've created]] or [[User talk:Ryan Postlethwaite|let's have banter]]}''' 22:19, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

* Where can we look at the results of what you are talking about? Are you saying that all the date formats shown in the big table, above, look OK simply by turning DynamicDates off? <span style="white-space:nowrap;">'''[[User:Greg L|Greg L]]''' ([[User_talk:Greg_L|talk]])</span> 22:58, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

**Yes, I would like to have access to this (or a similarly serving) test wiki. [[User:Dabomb87|Dabomb87]] ([[User talk:Dabomb87|talk]]) 23:02, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

** No, but the vast majority of dates are fine. If there are any that are broken, they can be fixed manually. This isn't something we need to worry a lot about. By far the greatest number of linked dates are in the format [[15 April]] or [[April 15]]. '''[[User:Ryan Postlethwaite|<fontspan colorstyle="color:green;">Ryan</fontspan> <fontspan colorstyle="color:purple;">Postlethwaite</fontspan>]]^{See [[Special:Contributions/Ryan Postlethwaite|the mess I've created]] or [[User talk:Ryan Postlethwaite|let's have banter]]}''' 23:05, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

***About how long will it take for this request to be actioned upon? [[User:Dabomb87|Dabomb87]] ([[User talk:Dabomb87|talk]]) 23:07, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

****Most probably quite a long time - hence why I've got it in early. Although it could be quick - it's really hard to tell. '''[[User:Ryan Postlethwaite|<fontspan colorstyle="color:green;">Ryan</fontspan> <fontspan colorstyle="color:purple;">Postlethwaite</fontspan>]]^{See [[Special:Contributions/Ryan Postlethwaite|the mess I've created]] or [[User talk:Ryan Postlethwaite|let's have banter]]}''' 23:10, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

:::* With regard to turning off DynamicDates: I sure hope you know what you’re doing, Ryan. I’ve only got about two hours where I ''think'' I understand some of the ramifications. Anyway… What about date de-linking?? The community consensus on that issue couldn’t be clearer. With millions of linked dates, only a bot can handle it. What’s the plan? <span style="white-space:nowrap;">'''[[User:Greg L|Greg L]]''' ([[User_talk:Greg_L|talk]])</span> 23:18, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

::::*Indeed, I'll get to that in the morning - That's going to be part two of the discussion as the autoformatting is close to being resolved. I'm about to go to bed, so it'll give me time to think. Hope that's ok. '''[[User:Ryan Postlethwaite|<fontspan colorstyle="color:green;">Ryan</fontspan> <fontspan colorstyle="color:purple;">Postlethwaite</fontspan>]]^{See [[Special:Contributions/Ryan Postlethwaite|the mess I've created]] or [[User talk:Ryan Postlethwaite|let's have banter]]}''' 23:20, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

(outdent). Well, from Bill Clark’s reaction on the [[bugzilla:18479|Bugzilla]], he has a firm grasp of the risks. He sounds to be someone with wherewithal, as he will be gathering statistics on just how many of the above junk-style formats will be junked with this move. I especially liked his quick grasp of the big picture at the end: {{xt|I expect to have that list ready later tonight, at which point a decision could be made to either fix those pages before disabling DynamicDates, or that the problem isn't widespread enough to be concerned with (since bots will be starting delinking of ALL lesser-relevant dates soon anyway.}} Sweet. <span style="white-space:nowrap;">'''[[User:Greg L|Greg L]]''' ([[User_talk:Greg_L|talk]])</span> 23:58, 15 April 2009 (UTC)

Line 109 ⟶ 108:

===An important point===

The majority of people don't have date preferences set. We're worrying what will happen to the people that have date preferences set, well we should thing of what's happening right now. If a date is linked as [[2009-04-15]], then the majority of users see a red link - it's already broken and will stay broken if dynamic dates are turned off. These dates need to be fixed regardless of what happens to dynamic dates and it shouldn't effect our thinking at all here. '''[[User:Ryan Postlethwaite|<fontspan colorstyle="color:green;">Ryan</fontspan> <fontspan colorstyle="color:purple;">Postlethwaite</fontspan>]]^{See [[Special:Contributions/Ryan Postlethwaite|the mess I've created]] or [[User talk:Ryan Postlethwaite|let's have banter]]}''' 18:58, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

::that's apparently not quite right, Ryan Postlethwaite - according to the discussion above Dynamic Dates masks certain errors - like your example - even for people who don't have preferences set. i don't have preferences set, and i see your example as a healthy blue link; some of the charts above show what i'll see when DD is turned off. a bot can start spotting and fixing those errors even before DD is turned off, and GregL is right that that should start ASAP. (but for me that doesn't mean there's a reason to postpone turning off DD - both things should happen.) [[User:Sssoul|Sssoul]] ([[User talk:Sssoul|talk]]) 19:20, 16 April 2009 (UTC) [[User:Sssoul|Sssoul]] ([[User talk:Sssoul|talk]]) 19:20, 16 April 2009 (UTC)

Line 216 ⟶ 215:

== When can we expect results? ==

I have asked this above in another section and haven't heard back, so perhaps I should ask in a new section. I've never been involved in arbitration before. When can we expect a decision from ArbCom and go back to editing dates (i.e. when will the date editing injunction be lifted)? [[User:RainbowOfLight|<fontspan colorstyle="color:#D60047;">Rain</fontspan><fontspan colorstyle="color:#F0A000;">bow</fontspan><fontspan colorstyle="color:#00A300;">Of</fontspan><fontspan colorstyle="color:#0A47FF;">Light</fontspan>]] [[User_Talk:RainbowOfLight|<fontspan colorstyle="color:#5200A3;">^{<small>Talk</small>}</fontspan>]] 06:15, 19 April 2009 (UTC)

:I have the same question. I did not align with either side but don't see why a portion of the issues that are decided on should continue to block editing. For example it seems to me there is consensus on the common sense position that date links should have no special status- that although we could link every single word in an article we instead eliminate links that readers would most likely would see no reason to click on. It is baffling to me why after 4 months there is still a ban on removing date links that make no sense and there is consensus support for allowing their removal. It seems to me that the consensus position is pretty simple to understand, but surely we could have a single document that spells the rules out crisply and thoroughly, then the link ban could be lifted.

:Whether or not we can phase in certain aspects of what has been decided, I echo RainbowofLight's question. Is there any sort of guesstimate on when this arbcom ruling is going to finished with? I have family of date templates whose consideration at MOSNUM is crying out for an RFC but it's pointless to solicit wider input now since the results of the arbcom decision will undoubtedly have dramatic impact the opinions solicited. To remove doubt of the validity regarding any consensus positions reached, I would have to rerun the RFC. From where I stand, everything having to do with dates is in gridlock. I'm a patient guy, but I'd like to have a reading on how much time I should be expecting on resolution of this matter. -[[User:J JMesserly|J JMesserly]] ([[User talk:J JMesserly|talk]]) 21:37, 20 April 2009 (UTC)

Line 279 ⟶ 278:

--[[User:RexxS|RexxS]] ([[User talk:RexxS|talk]]) 23:59, 23 April 2009 (UTC)

:*I agree that bots should be used, and that an exclusion list might be a solution; but remember that an article could have a relevant date link as well as irrelevant date links. I'd have to be honest and say that I don't believe the link to 2000 is relevant in the MM article. Someone might be interested to find out that MM and 2000 can be synonymous, but why that means they would be interested in finding out what else happened in 2000 is beyond me. [[User:HWV258|<b><fontspan style="color:Navy;background:LightSteelBlue;font-family:Arial"; font-size="2:small;">&nbsp;HWV258&nbsp;</fontspan></b>]] 00:31, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

::*Well, MM is a disambig. page, whose function is supposed to point readers to different articles; if you think the reader wouldn't be interested in the contents of [[2000]] there shouldn't be any entry about it on the page; --<span style="font-family: monospace; font-weight: 600; color: #00F; background-color: #FFF;">[[User:A. di M.|A. di M.]]</span> (formerly Army1987)<small>&nbsp;—&nbsp;''[[Special:Contributions/A. di M.|Deeds]],&nbsp;not&nbsp;[[User talk:A. di M.|words]]''.</small> 01:24, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

:::*I understand the point you are making, however I still feel it is okay to associate MM with 2000, but without necessarily linking to 2000. For example, a reader might plug "MM" into WP and say "ah, so it means 2000 does it". Note that there are other entries on that page that have no link, e.g. "Missing Men, a Sky Sports game" (although that might be because no one has created the page yet). [[User:HWV258|<b><fontspan style="color:Navy;background:LightSteelBlue;font-family:Arial"; font-size="2:small;">&nbsp;HWV258&nbsp;</fontspan></b>]] 01:58, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

::::The purpose of a dab page is to direct readers to articles. From [[WP:DAB]]: "Each bulleted entry should, in almost every case, have exactly one navigable (blue) link". Anyone searching for "MM" (for example, if they saw it at the end of a film) ought to be able to reach [[2000]] from that dab page. Annoyingly, they ought to be able to reach [[2000 in film]] as well, but can't! Frankly, I'd either remove "Missing Men, a Sky Sports game" or red-link it, then remove it if nobody creates it after a short time (and that's being generous). --[[User:RexxS|RexxS]] ([[User talk:RexxS|talk]]) 13:43, 24 April 2009 (UTC) On second thoughts, I've red-linked it myself. Please feel free to delete the entry if I forget. --[[User:RexxS|RexxS]] ([[User talk:RexxS|talk]]) 13:56, 24 April 2009 (UTC)

Line 291 ⟶ 290:

==What does this solve?==

Does this result actually solve anything or make edit warring any less likely? surely we will now get into arguments over what 'germane to the subject' actually means in practice. It could be argued that year links are in some cases by definition germane to the subject if they add historical context to a subject of international politics say. [[User:G-Man|<fontspan colorstyle="color:blue;">G-Man</fontspan>]] ^{[[User talk:G-Man|<fontspan colorstyle="color:#00BFFF;">?</fontspan>]]} 23:15, 27 April 2009 (UTC)

:Well, it sorted out the autoformatting issue. The rest can percolate through at whatever speed. [[User:Shoemaker&#39;s Holiday|Shoemaker&#39;s Holiday]] ([[User talk:Shoemaker&#39;s Holiday|talk]]) 00:20, 28 April 2009 (UTC)

Line 301 ⟶ 300:

The community RFC about a proposal for a bot to unlink dates is now open. Please see '''[[Wikipedia:Full-date unlinking bot]]''' and comment [[Wikipedia talk:Full-date unlinking bot#RFC|here]]. --[[User:Apoc2400|Apoc2400]] ([[User talk:Apoc2400|talk]]) 10:37, 22 June 2009 (UTC)

== Protected edit request on 8 June 2022 - Deprecated source tags ==

{{edit fully-protected|Wikipedia:Date formatting and linking poll/Month-day responses|answered=yes}}

Could all the <code><nowiki><source></nowiki></code> tags please be replaced with <code><nowiki><syntaxhighlight></nowiki></code> tags per [[:Category:Pages using deprecated source tags]]? [[User:Aidan9382|Aidan9382]] _{([[User talk:Aidan9382|talk]])} 17:57, 8 June 2022 (UTC)

:{{not done}} however, I've unprotected this old page; that being said I don't see any of that tag in the text - so check carefully. — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] ^{[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]} 13:25, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

::{{ping|xaosflux}} Unfortunately, you unprotected the ''wrong'' page. The issue is on a subpage of this page (See the precise edit request ___location), and that page is still protected, so I can't fix the issue. [[User:Aidan9382|Aidan9382]] _{([[User talk:Aidan9382|talk]])} 14:29, 9 June 2022 (UTC)

:::{{re|Aidan9382}} unprotected that one too now - go for it! — [[User:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#FF9933; font-weight:bold; font-family:monotype;">xaosflux</span>]] ^{[[User talk:Xaosflux|<span style="color:#009933;">Talk</span>]]} 14:37, 9 June 2022 (UTC)