|
:''For other uses, see [[Trunks]]. For the same [[Dragon Ball Z]] character from an alternate timeline, see [[Trunks (Dragon Ball)|Trunks]]''.
== M. Night Shaymalan ==
{{Cleanup|date=January 2007}}
{{DB Character|
RefName=Trunks|
image=[[Image:Future Trunks photo.jpg|250px]]|
Appears in=DBZ|
JapName=トランクス|
RomName=Torankusu|
AniName=Trunks|
MangaName=Trunks|
AltName=Mirai Trunks<br>Future Trunks<br>Trunks Briefs|
CanonTo=Original [[Manga]]|
FirstApp= Dragon Ball chapter #330<br><small>
(DBZ chapter #136)
Dragon Ball Z episode 104|
Would it really be appropiate to list M. Night Shaymalan's heritage here? Malayali and Tamil are both subgroups of Indian races; compared to the rest of the list, he's still 100% Indian.
Race=[[Human (Dragon Ball)|Human]]-[[Saiyan]]|
FamConnect=<li>[[Vegeta]] ''(father)''<li>[[Bulma]] ''(mother)''<li>[[Trunks (Dragon Ball)|Trunks]] ''(alternate timeline counterpart)''<li>[[Bra (Dragon Ball)|Bra]] ''(sister, alternate timeline)''<li>[[Dr. Briefs]] (''grandfather'')<li>[[Mrs. Briefs]] (''grandmother'')<li>[[King Vegeta]] (''grandfather'')}}
'''Future Trunks''', {{nihongo|'''Trunks of the Future'''|未来のトランクス|Mirai no Torankusu}}, or just '''Trunks''', is a [[fictional character]] in the [[manga]] [[Dragon Ball]] and the [[anime]] [[Dragon Ball Z]]. He is the [[Human (Dragon Ball)|Human]]-[[Saiyan]] hybrid son of [[Vegeta]] and [[Bulma]] from the 'future'. "''Mirai''" is the Japanese Kanji name for 'future'. Trunks' Japanese voice actor is [[Takeshi Kusao]]. In the English dub, he is voiced by [[Eric Vale]].
Or am I missing some sort of fine distinction here?
This is the first Trunks that the readers and/or viewers ever see in the ''Dragon Ball'' manga (the section he is in is titled ''Dragon Ball Z'' in North America) and the ''Dragon Ball Z'' anime. Trained by an alternate timeline's [[Gohan]], Trunks travels through time to seek help from [[Goku]] to prevent the [[Android (Dragon Ball)|Android]]s from ravaging the [[Dragon World|world]]. Trunks is a loyal and uncompromising warrior, and can be slightly cocky at times. He wields a [[sword]] and wears a ''[[Capsule Corporation]]'' jacket.
- Mydemand
==Personality==
: Scroll down the page, and you'll see that we've been arguing since Adam was a cowboy over what constitutes a "race." Speaking for myself, I think a case could be made out for claiming that North and South Indians are distinct races (though the distinction is far from being as watertight as many make out). Malayali and Tamil, however, are both South Indian, are geographically adjacent, and the only distinctions that I can figure out are language (two related languages, in fact) and religion (some 25 percent of the Malayali are Christian; the Tamil percentage is much lower). Neither distinction is racial, IMO. But, in an article like this, "race" seems to mean anything and everything that the editor of the moment wants to make it mean. I don't know whether we'll ever be able to establish an exact definition. [[User:Davidcannon|David Cannon]] 01:48, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Because he comes from the future and believes he knows what is going to happen, Trunks is usually shown thinking that only some things will matter and others probably won't (although he's usually right in the long term). This is shown in, at first, his resistance to do anything unless Goku is present. Other things, such as his surprise that [[Piccolo (Dragon Ball)|Piccolo]]'s fusion would make a difference, also show this. As such, he is usually surprised at events (on a different layer than the fact that history was different from his recollection). He is even (though very rarely) shown to be cocky, such as when he became a [[Super Saiyan|Super Saiyan 3rd Grade]] - but when he loses his seeming "advantage" this cockiness dissolves instantly. Molded from his dark timeline, he is very serious and is a determined fighter like his father.
Unlike his father or alternate timeline self, however, Trunks is often shown to be very polite and well-mannered. This is clearly shown in the original version through his speech, as he is often heard using the polite form of Japanese phrases when addressing his allies.
== Page Edit ==
==Differences==
To whomever has edited this page recently:
By growing up in such a bleak future, Future Trunks is much more serious during his childhood. He also becomes much closer to Gohan because [[Goten]] doesn't exist in that timeline. Present Trunks looks up to and respects Gohan, but he isn't as close as his future version.
It is unknown how a grown up [[Trunks]] would react to meeting Future Trunks, however this occurs in the video games ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Shin Budokai]]'', ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Budokai 3]]'', ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 2]]'', and ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Legendary Super Warriors]]''. In ''Budokai 3'' as well as in ''Shin Budokai'' Trunks states that it is "Just like having a brother" whereas in ''Legendary Super Warriors'' and ''Tenkaichi 2'' he does not even realize it is his future self, and the two have a sparring match. They did meet in the manga and anime, however, when Trunks was still just a baby; once when Future Trunks rescued him and Bulma from [[Dr. Gero]]'s attack, and once when Future Trunks came to Capsule Corp. before the Cell Games announcement. For a minute, Trunks incessantly pulled on Future Trunks' hair.
As I was in the process of adding to this page, my additions plus your changes, have caused half the data to be lost because I could not save half of what was there. Thanks.[[User:SD6-Agent|SD6-Agent]] 06:58, 20 Oct 2003 (UTC)
{{spoiler-about|Dragon Ball Z}}
:It may be frustrating, but it's not the other editor's (not me) fault. In the event of an edit collision, you will have been given the chance either to merge you changes with the other person's or copy them elsewhere. -- [[User:Daran|Daran]] 16:56, 21 Oct 2003 (UTC)
==Character Page name History==
===Future Trunks Timeline===
[[Image:tr_time_machine.jpg|left|thumb|Trunks and the Time Machine ("Hope!!")]]Trunks is from an alternate future [[Alternate history (fiction)|timeline]], one in which the [[evil]] [[Android 17]] and [[Android 18]] have conquered the [[Earth (Dragon Ball)|Earth]] and are using it as their playground, destroying what they wish.
By the time we are introduced to the pair of androids, over three fourths of the world's population has been eliminated by them during their spree of destruction. Gohan is a fully grown adult and has the ability to become a [[Super Saiyan]]
Would anyone object if I moved this to [[List of mixed-race people]]? The word "multiracial" is not one that I am familiar with (is it American?), and it sounds, to my ears at least, inappropriate. Not exactly offensive, but certainly strange. I consider myself to be of mixed race - ''partly'' one thing and ''partly'' another. The term "multiracial" seems to suggest belonging to many races - being ''all'' of one thing and ''all'' of another, at the same time, which wouldn't really work... "[http://www.google.com/search?q=%22mixed+race+people%22 Mixed race people]" gets more Google matches than "[http://www.google.com/search?q=%22multiracial+people%22 multiracial people]", anyway. -- [[User:Oliver Pereira|Oliver P.]] 16:49, 22 Oct 2003 (UTC)
In this timeline, Goku dies of a heart disease before the androids arrive, leaving the Z-Fighters without one of their greatest heroes. Trunks' father Vegeta and all of the heroes of Earth are killed, with the androids easily outclassing them in power since they were built to be able to defeat Goku. Gohan becomes Trunks' mentor and trains him in everything he knows. He tries his best to teach Trunks how to become a Super Saiyan as well, necessary for him to compete against the androids' might. However, as there is virtually nothing left to protect anymore, Trunks simply cannot find the motivation to transform.
:Yes -- I would definitely object. Perhaps this is more of an Americansim, but to me "mixed-race" emphasized the biological nature of this issue and sounds either vaguely clinical or overly focused on the "mixing of [distinct] races. "Multiracial" tends to be used in a way to empasize the cultural aspect, and to me is both closer to the spirit of the list and less likely to make someone wince when seeing the title. If you do [http://www.google.com/search?num=100&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&q=%22mixed-race%22+multiracial this search] for both at Google, you'll can see how these are used differently even in the same article. Also check out the Wikipedia article [[Multiracial]].... Thanks, [[User:Bcorr|BCorr ¤ Брайен ]] 20:59, 22 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Gohan and teenage Trunks face the androids in battle where Trunks, in his inexperience, is cornered by Android 18. Gohan is forced to sacrifice himself to save Trunks, losing his arm in the process which only further demoralizes Trunks and causes his confidence to fall. Trunks tries repeatedly to attain Super Saiyan during training but still struggles with it, unlike his alternate-timeline self who attains it at a much younger age and with relative ease.
:: I don't understand your objection. The debate about what "race" means (assuming it means anything at all) and whether it is biological or cultural or whatever is irrelevant to the present discussion. Both terms - "multiracial" and "mixed-race" - are based on the word "race", so produce exactly the same connotations in that respect.
Later the pair are drawn into battle against the androids again, so Gohan knocks Trunks unconscious knowing that if he faces them again he will be killed. Gohan holds his own against the androids, being stronger than each individually but unable to compete with both of them and their infinite energy reserves. Gohan is defeated and killed leaving Trunks to find his body lying in the rain. Overcome with anger and grief, Trunks finally transforms into a Super Saiyan and spends the next few years training and growing, though he still is unable to completely overwhelm both androids.
:: The only difference is in the parts of the terms unrelated to race. It's a choice between the prefix "multi-" (meaning "many") and the adjective "mixed". If the people in the list were being said to be "multiracial" - "of many races" - the list would say ''e.g.'' that Kristin Kreuk was both (fully) Chinese and (fully) Dutch. It doesn't. It says "1/2 Chinese, 1/2 Dutch", which is clearly saying that she is ''partly'' Chinese and ''partly'' Dutch. A mixture, if you will.
After another close escape, Bulma reveals her time machine to Trunks with which she hopes he will use to return to the past and save Goku, hopefully altering the future.
:: The present title ''does'' make me wince, because it looks just plain wrong. To me, it makes no sense to describe a person as "multiracial". According to the ''[[New Oxford Dictionary of English]]'', "multiracial" means "made up of or relating to people of many races". Note that that's "people" in the plural. So it makes no sense, at least in standard British English, to apply the term to an individual. Maybe it has acquired another meaning, but as I said above, I'm not familiar with it. I've just asked a couple of other people here, and they're not familiar with it, either. Shouldn't we stick to terms that all English-speakers will understand?
In the future, Trunks did not know his father, Vegeta, at all, as he was only an infant at the time he was murdered by the androids. When he finally meets his father in the past, he is seen to be constantly trying to impress him. This is often mixed with disgust and horror towards his father's uncaring attitude towards those around him, especially when Vegeta refused to save Bulma and baby Trunks when [[Dr. Gero]] blew up the capsule plane.
:: By the way, in the Google search you give a link to, many of the pages use the word "multiracial" in its standard sense. There are some that don't, but I don't see how they help your argument. Rather, they show that even those people that use your meaning of "multiracial" also use the term "mixed-race", which suggests that it is considered perfectly acceptable by those people. -- [[User:Oliver Pereira|Oliver P.]] 23:07, 23 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Having grown up in an age of apocalyptic terror, Future Trunks had to go through intense training that made him stronger than his alternate-self in the main Dragon Ball Z timeline, who grows up living in an age of peace.
:::Hi Oliver. I won't get into a long response here, and rather than debate the logic of your position or the points you've made, I'll just note that it seems clear that the terms are used differently (or not used) in the States and in the UK. I was just trying to provide more info with the Google search, rather than explicitly support my "position."
Every time Trunks travels into the past, he creates a different timeline, each one unaffected by different outcomes, which is why he didn't go back in time and destroy the androids before they were activated by Dr. Gero. The time machine he travels in was also low in power, so he would have been stuck in the past forever. This also means that if Goku told Bulma or Vegeta that they were going to have a son together around the time of his first time-travel and before Bulma stopped dating [[Yamcha]], it would have no difference to his existence whether Bulma and Vegeta decided to have a child together or not. (Despite this, Trunks told Goku not to tell Vegeta and Bulma about him, hinting towards wanting himself to exist in the standard timeline.)
:::The short version is that with the history of race in the USA, something about the term "mixed-race" immediately brings to mind (at least for me) other terms like ''miscegenation'', ''mulatto'', ''octoroon'', and ''half-breed''. Admittedly it's subjective, and you may or may not feel this is applicable, but you asked if anyone objected. It's up to you. -- Thanks, [[User:Bcorr|BCorr ¤ Брайен ]] 19:10, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
===Android Saga===
::::I think you're right, that "multiracial" must be an Americanism (I'm in the US) while "mixed-race" a Britishism. I also agree with Bcorr that to my American mind mixed-race sound slightly insulting, while I am sure Oliver's British mind finds multiracial insulting. Perhaps whichever we finally choose should have an explanation of that. I would say since we started it at multiracial, leave it there, and put a redirect from mixed-race. -- [[User:Zandperl|zandperl]] 15:52, 25 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Trunks travels back in time in order to warn Goku about the Android threat in the future, as well as to deliver medication that will cure the heart virus Goku will get. However, upon arrival he is greeted by the [[Frieza|Mecha-Frieza]] with his father [[King Cold]]. They had come to Earth in order to seek revenge upon Goku's loved ones. Trunks, then seventeen-years-old, did not look like much of a threat to Frieza, and he freely told him so. Frieza was then given three opportunities to kill Trunks, but Trunks was able to block and dodge the attacks with ease. Trunks then performs what he calls his [[List of Dragon Ball special abilities#Burning Attack|Burning Attack]], which is followed up by his sword. Frieza, cut in half, was completely destroyed and soon followed by his arrogant father King Cold. Trunks later finds out, to his chagrin, that he interfered with the timeline unnecessarily. Goku, although miles away in space, was prepared to step in using his [[List of Dragon Ball special abilities#Shunkan Idō|Instant Transmission]] technique when Trunks showed up.
Trunks informs Goku of the future where the androids come and kill them all, also telling Goku not to tell anyone about it, however Piccolo's Namekian ears pick up the conversation and tells the Z-Fighters of the future, inspiring the heroes to train their hardest for the next 3 years. However, inadvertently, Trunks revelation of the future alters it slightly.
::::: Well, if we're resigned to the fact that whatever title we have will offend someone, can't we at least have a title that is grammatically correct to everyone? :) -- [[User:Oliver Pereira|Oliver P.]] 04:51, 26 Oct 2003 (UTC)
When the androids eventually appear they face the Z-Fighters and Vegeta reveals his new Super Saiyan form. Trunks returns to the past to find [[Android 19]] and [[Android 20]], two androids he never saw in his time-line and realises that this time-line is now branching off considerably from his own. When Android 20 (In reality, Dr. Gero) releases the real androids, #17 and #18, they rebel and kill their creator before releasing the previously unknown [[Android 16]].
::::To my (UK) ear "Multi-racial" sounds odd. Agree that it must be an American v's Brit usage thing. Is there a standard way in which such usage disputes are solved?--[[User:JK the unwise|JK the unwise]] 14:05, 15 Mar 2005 (UTC)
Because Trunks warned the heroes of the future and they trained to become stronger, the androids of this time-line have been made considerably stronger, able to even compete with Super Saiyan Vegeta and #16, who did not exist in Trunks time-line, is far stronger than either of the other androids. Vegeta tries to fight #18 but is no match, so Trunks rushes to his father's aid but is beaten by #18 with ease and has his sword broken.
== Deletion ==
Eventually, [[Cell (Dragon Ball)|Cell]] from another alternate time-line is revealed and he sets about absorbing the androids of the current time-line. Superior in strength to any of the fighters, the heroes go to train again, this time in the [[Room of Spirit and Time]].
See also: [[List of Queer composers]], [[wikipedia:list]], [[list of people]], [[list of people by nationality]]. Reworked ([[User:MyRedDice|Martin]] 13:09, 25 Oct 2003 (UTC)) - [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Talk:List_of_multiracial_people&oldid=1618950 pre-reworked version]
When Vegeta and Trunks train in the Room of Spirit and Time together Trunks surpasses Vegeta in power though he fails to see the reason why Vegeta stops increasing his maximum power at the time. However, throughout the year that was spent in the Time Chamber, Trunks realized Vegeta's real sense of [[Saiyan]] pride and thought it was best to hide his true power level out of fear of upsetting his father.
''Feature suggestion: WikiList project -> [[wikipedia talk:list]]''
Trunks had managed to reach what is known as [[Super Saiyan|Ultra Super Saiyan]], where the Saiyan is still Super Saiyan 1, but has greatly augmented their physical strength. The strength benefit in this form is offset by the decrease in speed. It is later revealed that Vegeta was almost as strong as Trunks and could have reached this same level of power, but decided against it due to the form's weakness, something Trunks failed to spot during their training. (Incidentally, Goku came to the same conclusion as Vegeta when he and Gohan were training in the Room of Spirit and Time, and hence stopped his training as well, but Gohan at first failed to spot the weakness).
=== Keep ===
# [[User:Bcorr|BCorr ¤ Брайен ]]
# [[User:Wartortle|Wartortle]]
# [[User:TakuyaMurata|Taku]]
# [[User:MK|MK]]
# [[User:Ark30inf|Ark30inf]]
# [[User:VeryVerily|VV]]
# [[User:MyRedDice|Martin]]
# [[user:Jgm|Jgm]]
# [[User:Maximus Rex|Maximus Rex]]
# [[User:Oliver Pereira|Oliver P.]]
# [[User:Wiwaxia|Wiwaxia]]
# [[User:Toby Bartels|Toby Bartels]]
# [[User:AaronSw|AaronSw]]
===Cell Delete Saga===
[[Image:Ussjtrunks.jpg|right|thumb|150px|Trunks as a 3rd grade [[Super Saiyan|Ultra Super Saiyan]]]]Trunks is the second Saiyan to take on Perfect Cell with the intention of destroying him. Although Trunks' power was enough to deal significant damage to Cell, Trunks simply kept increasing his power, unaware that his speed was greatly decreasing. His body became too bulky and slow from the large quantity of muscle and this gave Cell the upper hand. Trunks quickly realized that he was too slow and gave up hope right before Cell's eyes. The battle hungry Cell however, was intrigued at how strong Trunks had become in such a short period of time and posed a challenge to the strongest fighters on Earth (Z-Fighters, Vegeta and Android 16) to train as much as they could over a period of nine days. Then at the end of these nine days all the fighters of Earth will compete in the Cell Games. Trunks then left the battlefield and spread the word about the Cell Games before taking a position in the Room of Spirit and Time, again training for a whole year in one day.
# [[User:Ruhrjung|Ruhrjung]]
# [[User:Fuzheado|Fuzheado]]
# [[User:Onebyone|Onebyone]]
# [[User:Muriel Gottrop|Muriel Gottrop]]
# [[User:Zandperl|zandperl]]
# [[User:Arwel Parry|Arwel]]
When Trunks emerges from his training he is powerful enough to compete in the games. Trunks unfortunately never gets the opportunity to kill Perfect Cell in this time-line and instead is forced to contend with Cell's smaller but incredibly powerful clones along with the other heroes. After Cell self-destructs out of fear of [[Super Saiyan 2]] Gohan, his nucleus survives and he uses it to resurrect himself. Upon his reappearance he impales Trunks through the chest with a powerful energy blast, killing him. This act causes a drastic change in Vegeta who becomes enraged that someone who cared about him has been critically hurt and reveals his affection for his son. Vegeta then gives everything he can give to try and kill Cell, although he fails and is overwhelmed by Cell. Later when told how his father reacted to his death, Trunks is proud of his father.
=== All or nothing (comments) ===
Trunks remains dead until he is revived by [[Dende]]'s new [[Shenron]] at [[Kami (Dragon Ball)|Kami]]'s Lookout after Perfect Cell is defeated.
Remove, but only if we also remove other lists based on race.
===Back to the future===
I say, all or none. NPOV: if we must list people by race or ethnicity, then every person alive or dead should be able to be listed. If not, then we are not NPOV because some unlisted people will be in a second class, so to speak. If this page is deleted, then Wikipedia <u>must</u> delete every such page. If it is not deleted, then Wikipedia <u>must</u> create such pages for every race and we will need to decide what the official list of races are going to be. I think you can see where I'm going. Deleting them all would be best and most neutral. [[User:Daniel Quinlan|Daniel Quinlan]] 16:20, Oct 23, 2003 (UTC)
After Goku's funeral, Vegeta acknowledges Trunks while Trunks says his goodbyes. After saying his goodbyes, Trunks returns to his own time to exact revenge on the androids for murdering adult Gohan. After reuniting with his mother, Bulma, Trunks sees a news update on Androids 17 and 18, and he quickly powers up into his powered Super Saiyan form. Meanwhile, the androids are about to kill another innocent man (in the manga he is killed before Trunks' arrival), when suddenly Trunks hurtles a very accurate energy attack which narrowly misses Android 17. The cocky androids foolishly underestimate Trunks and try to rush him. Trunks easily dodges their attacks and punishes them duly, obliterating Android 18 in a point-blank energy blast, saying "This is for Gohan!". Android 17 looks on in disbelief and his feelings soon turn to hatred when the outpowered android charges Trunks again, but he too is terminated with ease.
The completely unscathed Trunks returns home since everything now seems at peace with the Earth, except for one thing, Cell. The determined bio-android roams around in his weakest form looking for the now non-existent androids and comes across Trunks and Bulma saying their goodbyes near the Time Machine. As Trunks is about to leave for the past one final time to inform them of his success, he senses Cell and sends his mother away. He turns towards Cell and begins to taunt him with his knowledge from the alternate past. He informs him that he has killed the androids from the current time.
I'm undecided on the current list, but if it goes, so do other race-based lists (NOT nationality lists, however, two different things!). Most lists should be kept, however: without them, we lose a lot of important nodes connecting the 'pedia. -- [[User:Jake Nelson|Jake]] 14:34, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
The cocky Cell approaches the half-Saiyan under the false impression that Trunks is still at the level of power when he initially went back in time and warned Goku. Cell is clearly outclassed as Trunks hurls him outside of the city with a simple kiai in his base state. Trunks then goes into Super Saiyan and takes action by grabbing Cell's tail and swinging him around in a circle, building up momentum, and then hurling him high into the air. Cell realizes that he has no hope against the new Trunks, and prepares a [[Kamehameha]] large enough to destroy the planet, knowing all too well that he could survive in space. Trunks interrupts the attack with a large ki blast which completely destroys Cell. With the future finally at peace, Future Trunks is seen for the last time in the series.
=== Other comments ===
===Alternate Future Trunks===
The list could get long --deletionist
In another alternate main timeline, Trunks went into the past and helped Goku just as in the main timeline. Trunks manages to defeat the Androids with a remote control and travels back to his alternate future timeline. Because Trunks did not stay, and defeated the androids with the control, he did not encounter Cell, and did not train in the Hyperbolic Time Chamber. At his alternate future timelime he disabled the other future androids and was going to go back to the past to tell the others of their defeat. Instead he ran into and fought with Cell who killed him and then went on to take Trunks's time machine into the main timeline. Peace was also restored in this timeline though, as Cell and the Jinzouningen were out of the way, though it came at the loss of Trunks which brought the Saiyan race to extinction.
==Forms and transformations==
''There are dozens of lists that could get really long. What's the problem with having a potentially long entry if the content is information? We don't list every applicable person alive or dead, just those who justify encyclopedia entries, and sometimes only a selection of them. --inclusionist''
'''Normal'''<br>
[[image:http://www.bloodofasaiyan.com/smirk_1100x800.jpg|275px|right|Trunks at base.]]
This is Trunks' normal state when he first appears. When the Z-Fighters sensed him, Tenshinhan described Trunks power as "making Freeza seem like nothing". This would imply that Trunks' power is greater than Goku's when he became a Super Saiyan. This is very impressive due to the fact that he is only a teenager and can already destroy Freeza with ease in his normal state. Although Goku was badly weakned when he first turned SSJ and was not at his full power, it is later found out when Goku blocks all of Trunk's sword attacks with only a finger that they were either evenly matched or Goku had the slight upper hand.
[[Image:SS_Future_Trunks_2.jpg|275px|thumb|right|Trunks as a Super Saiyan 2nd Grade.]]
One criterion for reasonableness (besides interestingness) of a list is whether the group is small relative to the relevant population. E.g., reasonable: [[List of Nebraskans]], [[List of Asian-Americans]] (which is fine), [[List of people with the same first and last name]]. Less reasonable: [[List of New Englanders]], [[List of East Europeans]], [[List of people with same first and last initial]], [[List of people with some disability]]. Unreasonable: [[List of unmarried people]] (though [[List of marriages]] might be okay), [[List of European-Americans]], [[List of people with different first and last name]], [[List of men]], [[List of people with glasses]], [[List of heterosexuals]] (that was a big to-do). (Disclaimer: [[Your mileage may vary]].) Multiracial seems an entirely reasonable and interesting category. -- [[User:VeryVerily|VV]] 23:59, 23 Oct 2003 (UTC)
'''[[Super Saiyan]]'''<br>
A transformation that Trunks achieves during the Androids saga in his future. As a Super Saiyan, Trunks power has greatly increased from his normal level. His hair turns blond, the irises of his eyes become green, gains a slight muscle increase and he acquires a golden aura resembling a gentle flame.
'''Super Saiyan 2nd Grade'''<br>
Long precedence of such lists (could only be deleted if some sort of new general precedence on lists was create, unlikely). Not liking the list is not a reason for deletion. Lists of majority groups is silly -- common sense. [[User:Maximus Rex|Maximus Rex]] 04:10, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
A transformation that Trunks got during the Time Chamber training with his father, Vegeta, and was used for the first time to fight against Cell to stop him from absorbing Android 18. Trunks' muscle mass has increased, making him much stronger than his previous form with his speed retained, unlike the Super Saiyan 3rd Grade. His hair also gets longer and finer. The aura changes from a gentle flame to a uncontrolled torrent of fiery energy. He later uses this form to fight the Cell Juniors at the Cell Games along with the other DBZ warriors.
'''Super Saiyan 3rd Grade'''<br>
If these people are prominent for having done something, they should be listed for their accomplishments, not just for what they are. -- [[User:Arwel Parry|Arwel]] 11:29, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Another transformation that Trunks got during the Time Chamber training with his father, Vegeta, and was used for the first time to fight against Cell, after Cell obtained his Perfect Form and had knocked Vegeta out. This is the most powerful form of Super Saiyan that Trunks achieves. His muscle mass has increased dramatically from before, making him incredibly strong, but also making him much slower. Cell, at first, was shocked at sensing Trunks' power but quickly realized this weakness. Trunks failed to notice this flaw and was thus defeated by Cell. His aura becomes more wild and spreads out, in the form of surges of electricity.
==Special Abilities==
: Agree with "not ''just'' for what they are, but note that there's nothing to say a person can't be on multiple lists (what they did, "what" they are, where they're from, etc.)[[User:Jgm|Jgm]] 12:22, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
Trunks possesses a very small number of special Ki attacks, with his only unique one being unnamed. As such, a name was created later for it, such as "Burning Attack" for the blast he used to destroy Freeza's ship. In the Budokai series he has an attack called "Buster Cannon," which may have been created for the game, and another attack called "Finish Buster," which is similar to an attack he used against Vegeta when trying to stop Cell from reaching completion.
'''[[List of Dragon Ball special abilities#Bukujutsu|Bukujutsu]]'''
=== Meaningless? ===
:Like many other major combat-capable characters, Trunks is able to fly.
'''[[List of Dragon Ball special abilities#Burning Attack|Burning Attack]]'''
Does anybody claim to be just one nation? Especially people from the former colonies like USA? [[User:Muriel Gottrop|Muriel Gottrop]] 15:11, 23 Oct 2003 (UTC) (2/8 german, 1/8 chinese from Macao and 5/8 portuguese)
:A powerful blast Trunks uses by performing a series of rapid arm movements, then releasing energy from his hands, with his index and thumbs connecting.
'''[[List of Dragon Ball special abilities#Masenko|Masenko]]'''
The only question is how do we determine that a person is clearly of two "different" races? For example, would a person who was partly of Germanic blood and part Arab count as biracial, or would they merely count as Caucasian? And I think we should make a note on our page that we're not counting mestizo people as "interracial". [[User:Wiwaxia|Wiwaxia]] 22:27, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
:An attack used once against [[Broly]] in [[Broly: The Legendary Super Saiyan]]. Frequently used by Gohan and Piccolo. He never uses it in the manga or anime.
==Appearances in other media==
I think these questions of definition and boundary and meaning are important ones, but just because the task is difficult doesn't mean we should delete! Let's just do the best we can. :) [[User:MyRedDice|Martin]] 22:46, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
===Video games===
* ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Legendary Super Warriors]]''
* ''[[Dragon Ball Z: The Legacy of Goku 2]]''
* ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Taiketsu]]''
* ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Buyuu Retsuden]]''
* ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Super Sonic Warriors]]''
* ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Super Sonic Warriors 2]]''
* ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Shin Budokai]]''
* ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Shin Budokai - Another Road]]''
* ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Ultimate Battle 22]]''
* ''[[Dragon Ball GT: Final Bout]]''
* ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Sagas]]''
* ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Budokai]]''
* ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Budokai 2]]''
* ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Budokai 3]]''
* ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi]]''
* ''[[Dragon Ball Z: Budokai Tenkaichi 2]]''
* ''[[Super Dragon Ball Z]]''
* ''[[Battle Stadium D.O.N]]''
* ''[[Jump Ultimate Stars]]''
===Manga===
I think it's extraordinary that anyone would post a page on so-called "mixed race" people. Does anyone really believe in the 21st century that there is such a thing as an unmixed race? The page has no place in Wikipedia, IMHO, and I'm utterly amazed to even find it here. [[User:Alpheus|Alpheus]]
*He appears aboard Captain Vegeta's flying ship in a Dragon Ball and [[One Piece]] Crossover.
==References==
=== Neutral? Offensive? ===
<references/>
{{Unreferenced|date=December 2006}}
It is POV to only have such lists for a limited subset of all potential ethnicities/races. Remember, [[NPOV]] attempts to have no standpoint on every issue, and saying only certain categories are interesting is certainly a standpoint. I would be comfortable keeping the list of multiracial people [[iff]] lists of people for more "standard" races appeared. Would anyone reading this like to help work on a [[list of caucasian people]] or [[list of famous caucasians]]? -- [[User:Zandperl|zandperl]] 01:07, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
:Well, the decision about what is interesting or not may not be fully neutral, but it has to be made daily. For instance, this very page constantly hosts debates about whether individual people "deserve" to have a Wikipedia page, which is of course a judgement call. But note that my standard is of interesting ''and'' small. Thus, lists of people of ''any'' continent-sized race (white, blacks, Asians) would be just too big; lists of people of a certain race ''within'' a nation in which they are a minority (e.g., European-Zimbabweans or Chinese-Malays or German-Chileans) ''is'' more reasonable by this standard. Similarly, biracial people are a small minority resulting from recent migration patterns and thus fit. Furthermore I don't think there's much doubt that they are of interest to many (above comments witness). -- [[User:VeryVerily|VV]] 03:55, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
A list of biracial people is certainly valid, considering we have lists of Chinese-Americans, Italians, Japanese, Mexicans and even Lithuanians (though people wanted to delete that last one). [[User:Wiwaxia|Wiwaxia]] 22:27, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
{{Dragon Ball characters}}
I am multiracial and I find this list offensive. You do not see a list of [[disability|disabled]] people or a list of [[women]], and either of these groups would likely also be offended if a list of "them" were created. Listing whom is mutiracial identifies these people solely by that characteristic rather than by their important contributions to society, and continues to marginalize us. In addition, I find the very existance of this list to be evidence of its non-[[NPOV]] (US Christian middle-class): there are no lists of [[Caucasian]] or [[Asian]] people (both groups are successful and accepted in America), but there are lists of [[List of African-Americans|African-Americans]] and [[list of famous Jews|Jews]]. Keep only if lists of Caucasians, Asians, disabled persons, non-disabled persons, women, men, [[heterosexual]]s, [[homosexuality|homosexuals]], and so on, are to be created. --[[User:Zandperl|zandperl]] 16:03, 23 Oct 2003 (UTC) (1/2 Chinese, 1/2 Jewish and I don't even know what countries the Jewish comes from)
{{DEFAULTSORT:Trunks}}
:To repeat I point I previously made, if we have a list of people who are astronauts are we then required to compose a list of people who are not astronauts? If we say that Isaac Newton is famous enough to justify an entry but my sixth grade math teacher John Smith is not, are we saying that Newton is better than Smith? In my opinion, the obvious answer to both questions is no. The existence or non-existence a list or entry doesn't imply any moral value about the people who are in it. The question of whether a list is useful or interesting is one best handled by the same consensus used to judge whether or not a person is famous. [[User:MK|MK]] 00:05 (EST) 27 October 2003
[[Category:Z Fighters]]
I am of mixed race, and I find the idea of deleting this list offensive. There, that's balanced that out nicely. ;) By the way, the principle of NPOV applies to the ''content'' of pages in the Wikipedia, but cannot apply to the ''selection'' of what pages to have. Everyone has their own points of view about what should be included, and it's impossible to accommodate all of them. My point of view is that lists of people are only interesting if the entry criterion is membership of a fairly small minority. (Okay, so ''everyone'' has ancestors from different ethnic groups, if you go back far enough, but only a minority are explicitly referred to as doing so.) It's not necessary for each list of members of a minority to have a complementary list that lists everyone who isn't in that minority. -- [[User:Oliver Pereira|Oliver P.]] 00:38, 25 Oct 2003 (UTC)
[[Category:Fictional hybrids]]
[[es:Trunks]]
== Further discussion ==
[[fr:Trunks du futur]]
[[it:Trunks]]
This page is a potential cross-referencing nightmare - anyone adding information to it which is not in or added to the page of the individual in question should be hunted down and yelled at. [[User:Onebyone|Onebyone]] 17:17, 20 Oct 2003 (UTC)
[[nl:Future Trunks]]
[[ja:トランクス (ドラゴンボール)]]
: I concur. [[User:MyRedDice|Martin]] 21:41, 24 Oct 2003 (UTC)
[[pl:Future Trunks]]
: ''Muriel's suggestion for a Wikilist project -> [[Wikipedia:Wikitrivia discussion]]'' (i just created this one...)
:I think this list should be limited to people whose mixed background is a major element in their life story. Tiger Woods, Brandon Lee, or Sean Lennon are known for self identifying as "mixed" or being the children of noteworthy "mixed" marriages. I don't think Winston Churchill or Ted Williams were ever regarded as anything other than "white" by the general public, even if they had some non-European ancestors. If this list includes everyone known (or rumored) to have an ancestor of a different "Race", it would be gigantic.
::I see your point, but I don't really agree with it. I must admit that I'm a list-lover, but from my point of view a list of multi-racial people does more than anything to debunk the stereotype (more widespread in some countries than in others) that multi-racial people are somehow "outside" of the mainstream. This list proves the opposite. The fact that Winston Churchill was "never regard as anything other than 'white'" is, to me, '''proof''' that society as a whole does ''not'' mentally segregate people who might have had an ancestor or two from another place. They do, however, regard it as in interesting curiosity. This has been my own experience also - I, too, am multiracial (commonly regarded as "white" by culture; I have Maori ancestry which, although not obvious to most people, does make me look slightly different from the average "Pakeha" (white) New Zealander, and people ''' ''often'' ''' ask me where I come from. But they ask me purely out of curiosity. That's all it is. Otherwise, I'm simply a New Zealander who is proud of his Maori, Scottish, English, Irish, Dutch, and French ancestors. Does it isolate me from "mainstream culture" (if there is such a thing) in any way? NO! But many people, especially from homogeneous nations like Korea (where my wife comes from) ''think'' it does. As I said, this list debunks that ridiculous notion better than anything else I know. [[User:Davidcannon|David Cannon]] 09:26, 18 Apr 2004 (UTC)
Couldn't this page (and all the others of a similar nature) be made into a category? That way maintainance would be simple, and ultimately a tool could be built to answer queries "What was the name of that woman conductor, I think she was Polynesian?" (OTOH I expect this has all been thrashed out elsewhere.) [[User:213.48.182.7|213.48.182.7]] 09:59, 2 Jul 2004 (UTC)
Should this page have red links? I don't like the Category idea - category lists don't include additional information, so you would be forced to click on the link to figure out who the person was. On the other hand, if you have no requirement of notability, I could list myself, my niece, siblings, my brother-in-law (and all his family) most of my cousins...I could add 50 only moderately notable multi-racial people to this list in as long as it takes me to type their names. If you limit the page to people who are notable enough to have their own articles in Wikipedia (even a stub would do) that would allow the community to set a standard of inclusion. Or someone like me could make this into a vanity list of their friends and relatives. [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 20:23, 8 Dec 2004 (UTC)
== George W. Bush and Pocahontas ==
I'm sorry about inserting, deleting, and reinserting this information over the last few days. I removed my original insertion of the Bush-Pocahontas link after reading some articles online which disproved (conclusively) the lineage usually claimed. However, [http://www.sitepalace.com/bush/index.htm#TOC the most thorough genealogy I've come across] shows that President Bush is, in fact, a Pocahontas descendant - through a different line. It goes thus:
GENERATION 13
4564. John ROLFE was born 1585 in Heacham, Norfolk, , England and was christened 6 May 1585 in Heacham, Norfolk, , England. He died 22 Mar 1622 in Jamestown, James City, , Virginia,USA. John married Pocahontas Motoaka - (Princess) on 5 Apr 1614 in Jamestown, , , Virginia,USA. [Parents]
4565. Pocahontas Motoaka - (Princess) was born about 1595 in Werowocomoco, , , Virginia,USA. She died Mar 1617 in Gravesend, Kent, , England and was buried 21 Mar 1617 in St. George's, Gravesend, Kent, England. [Parents]
GENERATION 12
2282. Thomas ROLFE (Lieutenant) was born 30 Jan 1615 in Jamestown, Virginia, USA. He died 1656 in Virginia, USA. Thomas married Jane POYTHRESS in , , , Virginia,USA. [Parents]
2283. Jane POYTHRESS was born about 1620 in Jamestown, Virginia, USA. She died 1676 in Charles City, Virginia, USA. [Parents]
GENERATION 11
1140. Robert BOLLING (Colonel) was born 26 Dec 1646 in All Hallows, London, Middlesex, England. He died 7 Jul 1709 in Kippax, Charles City, Virginia, USA and was buried 17 Jul 1709 in Kippax, Charles City, Virginia, USA. Robert married Jane ROLFE on 1675 in Petersburg, Ind. City, , Virginia,USA. [Parents]
1141. Jane ROLFE was born 10 Oct 1650 in Petersburg, Virginia, USA. She died 1676 in Kippax, Charles City, , Virginia,USA. [Parents]
GENERATION 10
570. Robert BOLLING (Jr.) (Major) was born 25 Jan 1681 in Charles City, Virginia, USA. He died before 3 Jan 1748/1749 in , , Prince George, Virginia,USA. Robert married Anne May COCKE on 27 Jun 1706. [Parents]
571. Anne May COCKE was born 27 Jan 1705 in Prince George County, Virginia. [Parents]
GENERATION 9
284. James MUNFORD (Major) was born 1708 in Prince George County, Virginia. He died 25 Apr 1754 in Prince George County, Virginia. James married Elizabeth BOLLING on 1727 in Amelia County, Virginia. [Parents]
285. Elizabeth BOLLING was born 17 Dec 1709 in Prince George County, Virginia. She died 1754 in Amelia County, Virginia. [Parents]
GENERATION 8
142. Robert MUNFORD married Anne BROADNAX. [Parents]
143. Anne BROADNAX was born in Charles City County, Virginia. She died after 1780. [Parents]
GENERATION 7
70. John SHELLMAN (Jr.) was born 5 May 1756 in Frederickstown, , , Maryland,USA. He died 17 Apr 1838 in Savannah, , , Georgia,USA. John married Clarissa MUNFORD. [Parents]
71. Clarissa MUNFORD was born in Amelia County, Virginia. She died Feb 1845. [Parents]
GENERATION 6
34. Samuel Howard FAY was born 21 Jul 1804 in Cambridge, , Middlesex, Massachusetts,USA. He died 16 Aug 1847 in Brooklyn, , , New York,USA. Samuel married Susan SHELLMAN on 5 Jul 1825 in Savannah, , , Georgia,USA. [Parents]
35. Susan SHELLMAN was born 20 Feb 1808 in Savannah, , , Georgia,USA. She died 12 Jan 1887. [Parents]
GENERATION 5
16. James Smith BUSH (Reverend) was born 15 Jun 1825 in Rochester, , Monroe, New York,USA. He died 11 Nov 1889 in Ithaca, , Tompkins, New York,USA. James married Harriet Eleanor FAY on 24 Feb 1859 in New York City, , , New York,USA. [Parents]
17. Harriet Eleanor FAY was born 29 Oct 1829 in Savannah, , Chatham, Georgia,USA. She died 27 Feb 1924 in Boston, , Suffolk, Massachusetts,USA. [Parents]
GENERATION 4
8. Samuel Prescott BUSH was born 4 Oct 1863 in Brick Church, , , New Jersey,USA. He died 8 Feb 1948 in Columbus, , Franklin, Ohio,USA. Samuel married Flora SHELDON on 20 Jun 1894 in Columbus, , , Ohio,USA. [Parents]
9. Flora SHELDON was born 17 Mar 1872 in , Franklin, , Ohio,USA. She died 4 Sep 1920 in Watch Hill, , , Rhode Island,USA. [Parents]
GENERATION 3
4. Prescott Sheldon BUSH was born 15 May 1895 in Columbus, Franklin, , Ohio,USA. He died 8 Oct 1972 in New York City, , , New York,USA. Prescott married Dorothy WALKER on 6 Aug 1921 in Kennebunkport, York, , Maine,USA. [Parents]
5. Dorothy WALKER was born 1 Jul 1901 in Nr. Walker's, Point, York, Maine,USA. She died 19 Nov 1992 in Greenwich, , , Connecticut,USA. [Parents]
GENERATION 2
2. George Herbert Walker BUSH was born 12 Jun 1924 in Milton, Massachusetts, USA. He married Barbara PIERCE on 6 Jan 1945 in Rye, New York, USA. [Parents]
3. Barbara PIERCE was born 8 Jun 925 in Rye, Westchester, New York, USA. [Parents]
GENERATION 1
1. George Walker BUSH was born 6 Jul 1946 in New Haven, New Haven, Connecticut. [Parents]
Accordingly, I have reinserted the information about Bush. I have left out the information about the FDR, Nixon, and Ford, which I have not (yet) found any proof. [[User:Davidcannon|David Cannon]] 14:25, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
== What constitutes a race? ==
In the article it states "Leelee Sobieski Polish-French". Aren't the French considered to be the same "race" as the Poles along with the rest of Europe?
:There is no universally agreed definition of what constitutes a "race". People bandy the word about as if everybody knows what it means, but in reality it means many things to many people. One Kenyan I know used the word "races" to refer to what most of us would call "tribes" in his country. I've heard admirers of the Polish people call them a "race." Others would define "race" by skin colour or other physical characteristics. Still others use the word synonymously with "culture." Perhaps the best definition that I've seen is "a family tree that inbreeds to some extent." Really, I don't like the word "race" because there's no definition of it that would be universally applicable. Perhaps a better title for the list might be ''"List of multiethnic people."'' What do you think? [[User:Davidcannon|David Cannon]] 23:17, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
==Prince Charles==
What have I read here? Prince Charles is of Mongolian descent and is also a direct descendant of [[Muhammad]]? Is this a joke or something? [[User:Meursault2004|Meursault2004]] 23:49, 10 Dec 2004 (UTC)
:Can't say about the Genghis Khan thing (though a good proportion of the people in the world [http://www.journals.uchicago.edu/AJHG/journal/issues/v72n3/024530/024530.text.html are]), but it's pretty widely accepted that the Royal Family is descendent of the Prophet Muhammad. [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 01:33, 11 Dec 2004 (UTC)
::Prove it without original research and without POV. Just because YOU are multiracial, doesn't mean the whole world follows your footsteps or is exemplifying your desire to not be relatively alone. I resent your insult, so back it up!
Lol. Have your fun at Stormfront dude. My people actually died for those idiotic ideas, paid the price in blood for Nazi ideals - and consigned them to the rubbish heap of history.
::Who do you think you're talking to? How do you profess to know-it-all about everything and everyone? Stop your POV rampage and the suppression of dissent from your arrogant opinions. This is not a debate over your worth as a person. This is about your predilection for not maintaining an open scholarship here at Wikipedia by promoting your interests and demeaning that of others. The issue was about Prince Charles' legitimate claim to the blood of Islam's greatest prophet, which to many it appears to be attention grabbing, more than anything serious(in order to promote good feelings throughout the Commonwealth). You did not provide proof of his descent, therefore you are guilty of endorsing your personal viewpoint without accepting the possibility of another perception of the issue. Don't be so quick to judge others, for you appear to be projecting your own image onto circumstances that have little to do with you. That is a compromise on Wikipedian policy of NPOV. You should use empirical science.
Pick one dude, empiricism, or references? Which one are you asking for? Or don't you even know the difference? I didn't insert the claim, I merely answered a question. Doublespeak doesn't help you much - calling propaganda NPOV doesn't make it so, no matter how much you wish for it. We all read your posts at http://www.stormfront.org/forum/showthread.php?t=173563&page=4&pp=10 [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 23:14, 10 Feb 2005 (UTC)
::You're accusing me of something I did not know until you showed me it. How paranoid you appear. I don't need to prove myself to anybody as this is an [[Open Source]] project for anyone willing to be [[NPOV]], anyways. My time on this website has nothing to do with anybody but me as I do not have online confidants or an e-family. Nor do I fit into any stereotype you'll label me as. I just am who I am and it's surely not a part of any pressure group. You seem to be engaged in some sort of [[witchhunt]], that I neither wish to participate in, nor be disturbed by. Take your self-aggrandisation elsewhere, for you will not engender my [[friendship]] with your persecutive attitude. You'll probably be surprised that you are acting a bit like [[Joseph McCarthy]], so I will dub thee [[Witchfinder General]]. This argument, however seems to be turning into a joke because you have your preconcieved notions of who I am and what I stand for. I will not argue with you further and if you cyberstalk me, I'll just ignore you. http://members.dodo.net.au/~grindercom/argument.jpg
:::Your characterizations of the British nobility were hardly NPOV. [[User:RickK|Rick]][[User talk:RickK|K]] 04:10, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
::Don't change the subject. I will not battle you across several pages. [[User:Borderer|Borderer]] 04:28, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
::Also, RickK, I vehemently object to your automatic rv on the things I edit without some EXPLANATION AS PERTAINS TO RULES AND NOT TASTE! [[User:Borderer|Borderer]] 04:31, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
:::I didn't realize we were battling. And I reverted your edits because of the explanation I gave above. [[User:RickK|Rick]][[User talk:RickK|K]] 04:43, Feb 11, 2005 (UTC)
As an aside, Prince Charles's descent from Muhammad is supported by [[Steve Jones (biologist)]], author of ''In the Blood.'' Now, I'm not saying that he is infallible or that he doesn't have a barrel to push (how would I know?), but he is a respected academic whose ideas are at least worthy of consideration. I believe [[Harold Brookes-Baker]] of [[Burke's Peerage]] has also supported the claim indirectly (he made such a claim about George W. Bush, who descends from the same claimed link as Prince Charles). Yes, I know that Brooke-Baker is no prophet (he mispredicted the American election), but he is a good historian. If you want me to provide links, give me a couple of days and I will do so. Note that I'm not calling this evidence "proof," but I am saying that it cannot be dismissed out of hand. [[User:Davidcannon|David Cannon]] 05:06, 11 Feb 2005 (UTC)
== Appropriate listings ==
Donald Trump, with his alleged Scottish & Swedish-American ancestry, does not belong in this article. The article is called "List of multiracial people". I realize that at some point somebody added the tag "Here is a list of ... multinational people", but the spirit of that addition was NOT to turn this into a list of white people who have ancestry from multiple European countries. Nearly all of the USA and a good percentage of people in many other countries will join this list if that's how inclusion is determined.
Other "multi-ethnic" whites like Leelee Sobieski were deleted long ago. The inclusion of someone like Donald Trump goes completely against the purpose of this article. Nobody looks up multiracial people so they can find someone from Scotland and Sweden.
:It isn't good form to delete an entry from a page without explaining it in your edit summary. But more importantly, the page should be factually accurate. As it stands, ''anyone'' could fit on this page. If you don't think the page should be dilute to the point of meaninglessness, then you should raise the issue of the scope of the page, and if the editors agree, then you can make the change. But we can't have a situation in which the scope of the page follows some unspoken rule. To say that "multi-national" applies only when the two nations are not "white" nations is factually inaccurate. The "rules" have to be transparent and interpretable by any and all users. Of course, where you draw the lines between ethnic or racial groups is another joke. If we leave out "white" multi-nationals, does that mean that we leave out:
:*Catherine Bell, actress, Iranian mother, British father (I believe that US census considers Iranians "white")
:*Queen Noor of Jordan, father Syrian/Lebanese, mother Swedish (again, Arabs are "white"
:*Alexander Siddig, actor, mother white, father Arab
:*Jehan Sadat, former First Lady of Egypt, widow of Anwar Sadat, Egyptian mother, English father
:Either these things need to be clearly defined, or the page is a meaningless mess. I'm not saying that the definitions (as they exist on the page) are good, because they are not, but it must be meaningful and ''transparent''. [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 23:36, 8 Mar 2005 (UTC)
[and please sign your postings]
::So let's use this opportunity to give some clarity to this page. Anyone who is not multi-racial should be removed from this page, Multi-ethnicity and multi-nationalism encompasses far too many people to ever hope to include in any kind of complete listing. As far as defining races, this is not my field of expertise but my suggestion would be to divide things as follows: European/White, African/Black, Arabian, South Asian, Oriental, Pacific Islander, & indigenous peoples of the Americas, Australia, and anywhere else I've forgotten. Anyone whose ethnic background lies completely within any of these groups would be eliminated from this page. Also, if I were deciding things, an individual could have a maximum of 7/8 (or should it be 3/4 or 1/2?) of one particular ethnicity to fit on the list. [I forget how to sign and can't find the instructions]
::I would also request that anyone added to this page meet some level of notability - either they have a Wikipedia entry, or they ''could'' have one. [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 14:00, 9 Mar 2005 (UTC)
== What is a race? ==
In the last revision, Davidcannon wants to know what a race is. I'm not an anthropologist or biologist. Of all the people who have submitted revisions to this article, are there any who hold those titles? If we have to "define" race before we can add or subtract any list entries, we might as well delete the article.
I have never heard of Korean and Japanese classified as unique races. If there is a definition that would support such a classification, it would likely also support classifiying every ethnicity as a separate race. The list could get very long.
--[[User:Discospinster|discospinster]] 12:59, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
:Originally the list was "multi-racial, multi-ethnic or multi-national" people - which was unworkably broad. The problem is that there is no good definition of race (see [[race]]). In the US someone who is half Mexican (regardless of race) and half Anglo would count as multi-racial, but someone with one (white) Mexican parent and one (black) Mexican parent would not (they would simply be Hispanic). Similarly, someone who is half Swedish-American and half Egyptian-American would be white. On the other hand, there was a time when the English "race" was considered distinct from the French "race". We can try and come up with a working definition, we can return to the original definition, or we can just go by what "feels" right.
:If there is no good definition of race, should we include multi-ethnic people? But how do we define ethnic groups? Would people who are half Welsh and half Cornish qualify? [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 14:27, 6 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Agree. To me, a white who has French and English is considered as mixed. If you say that a white is "pure" just because he has the bloodlines of the two European race, I would say it as a pure European (White) at most. [[User:Mr Tan|Mr Tan]] 11:22, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)
===Yi Ku amd Takeshi Kaneshiro ===
* Yi Ku is Japanese and Korean mix: Koreans and Japanese are considered seperate races. Takeshi Kaneshiro is half Chinese and Japanese, and they are seperate races too.
Post objections here, and state why, please. [[User:Mr Tan|Mr Tan]] 13:36, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
:As commonly used, "East Asians" comprise a single "race". Koreans and Japanese would be separate ethnic /national groups, not races. Of course, race is a social construct and there is no such thing as race biologically, so all arguments about who should or should not be included on this page are pretty much bunk. More importantly, although people make protests (one way or the other) from time to time, no-one has followed through with a firm proposal. The "original" format of this page (ie, the way I found it about a year ago) was that it included multi-racial, multi-ethnic and multi-national people. Some people found this usage overly broad and cut it down to multi-racial, but without defining "race" (it now includes obvious non-races, like "Hispanic" which is nothing more than a creation of the US Census bureau). I sometimes wonder if the page shouldn't be deleted as "hopelessly POV". [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 14:18, 19 Jun 2005 (UTC)
In Singapore, A Chinese-Japanese mix is already considered a mix race. And what is race? The definition of race is the same as ethnic group, I believe. If you oppose, please give me sources of information that "race" and "ethinc group" is different. Thanks. [[User:Mr Tan|Mr Tan]] 13:19, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
:While there is not good definition of race (see the [[race]] article) the traditional view was that there was ~5 races - european, african, east asian, australian and american. The US census belives that there are 5 "races" as well - white, black, asian and pacific, hispanic, and native american and hawaiian native. Of course these groupings are biologically meaningless. So common usage would suggest that Chinese and Japanese are not separate races. But I don't oppose their inclusion, because this page does not include a definition of "multiracial". [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 13:27, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
If a Korean-Japanese couple would be considered "mix race" then so might a Scot and a German. I can only assume that Europe today is populated with such mix race couples. Our list would become longer and more meaningless. -[[User:Acjelen|Acjelen]] 12:26, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Of course, A French and a scot are seperate races. If they are considered one race, they might as well be called European, but the word "European" means one who lives on Europe. And you see, the Vietnamese ([[Kinh]]) and the Chinese (Hoa) are considered seperate races in Vietnam. And so the Malays and Chinese are considered separate in [[Singapore]] and [[Malaysia]]. Why don't we call them "Asians" in that sense, like "White", or "European" and call them a race then? Look at how the "race" is actually defined, and to hell what the US government what is the free definition of race. [[User:Mr Tan|Mr Tan]] 18:23, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
:"Race" has no good, generally accepted definition. Historically anthropologists and biologists agreed on five races, but there is little modern support in academia, although most people still use these races. Using "race" for national or ethnic groups has not been used widely in English for a long time - not since WWII, would be my guess. US census definitions of race are significant because so much scholarship is done in the US. Published literature on "race" often use biologically meaningless US census categories like "Hispanic" and "Asian". If we ignored that and only used the old-fashioned 19th-20th century idea of 5 races...we'd have to list almost all Latin Americans and African-Americans as multi-racial. So using US census categories, while dishonest, keep this list from growing even longer and more unwieldy. [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 18:35, 24 Jun 2005 (UTC)
== [[Foxy Brown]] ==
"...mixed black and Trinidadian descent..." The interview says "Asian and Trinidadian" descent, which is too vague to be specific. Assuming that she is a Trinidad Marchand, then you're looking at (at the very least) 150-200 years of mulatto ancestry. The "Asian" could be either Indian or Chinese - likely both. "Multiracial" is the only meaningful term. [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 17:38, 25 Jun 2005 (UTC)
This article is about "multiracial" people. If she is only of Trinidadian descent she should be removed from this list. She is part African-American right? Please clarify her multiracial status on the list and describe what a Trinidad Marchand is for those who don't know.
I think I read somewhere that (like Jay-Z) Foxy Brown's Asian component of her heritage is Chinese. I could be wrong; but I also disagree with Guettarda above saying that "Asian and Trinidadian" is "too vague". Maybe the person who added Foxy Brown to this list didn't know specifically which part of Asia her ancestor comes from. I personally have no problem with the phrase. [[User:Jalabi99|Jalabi99]] 14:28, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
:*''If she is only of Trinidadian descent she should be removed from this list.'' - not at all, 18% of Trinidadians are multi-racial. On the other hand, "Trinidadian" is not a race.
:*"African American" - if she is an American of Afro-Trinidadian descent, she is African American (see [[Mervyn Dymally]], for example, who is "African American" despite the fact that he was born in Trinidad to an Indo-Trinidadian father and a mother who was (I think) of Venezuelan descent).
:*"Trinidadian" is not a race, so you cannot say that your race is mixed Trinidadian and Asian. >40% of Trinidadians are either [[Indo-Trinidadian]] or Chinese Trinidadian. You could say "mixed race Trinidadian ''and'' Chinese descent" if she has a parent from China, or you could say Mixed race Trinidadian (which is what most Marchands are, and probably have been for generations) or you could say mixed African, Asian (and European?) of Trinidadian descent.
:*I could describe myself as being of "Trinidadian and Asian descent", but that would be a meaningless statement - Trinidadian is not a race.
:Unless you know how the "Asian" and "Trinidadian" fall out, it is a potentially misleading statement. [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 17:26, 9 September 2005 (UTC)
==Jewishness as race?==
Can some resolution be made on whether a person with two White/Caucasian parents, one of which is Jewish, should be considered mixed race? (e.g ''Reinhard Heydrich, SS Obergruppenführer, German with one Jewish grandparent (disputed by revisionists)'') Yes I know it's often claimed as a race but this usage seems at variance with Wiki usage (e.g. see above, def. of "5 races") --[[User:Dpr|Dpr]] 16:14, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
:Since Arab descent is being used as a 'race' (e.g. the king of Jordan), I think the same can be true of Jewish descent. The last thing this list needs to close attention. If a more strict definition of race is used, we will need to delete (and continually delete) many individuals. -[[User:Acjelen|Acjelen]] 17:14, 18 September 2005 (UTC)
== How about a list of mixed nationality or mixed heritage ==
I proposed a separate list of people who have mixed nationalities or mixed heritage i.e.
*[[Prince Charles]], Prince of Wales (Crown Prince of the UK), Greek father and English mother,
*[[Alex Kapranos]], Lead singer of Franz Ferdinand, Greek father and English mother
*[[Geri Halliwell]], singer, English father and Spanish mother
*[[Ian Fleming]], author of the James Bond novels, English father and Swiss-French mother (James Bond was also mixed English/Swiss-French)
The rules are that only if they have a parent or grandparent who is of a different nationality or heritage can be put on the list. [[User:159753|159753]] 17:29, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
:That was tried on this list a while ago. The problem is, that list would be orders of magnitude longer than this one. [[User:Guettarda|Guettarda]] 17:36, 23 September 2005 (UTC)
| 