Content deleted Content added
m Reverted edit by Levi Colsch (talk) to last version by Lowercase sigmabot III |
|||
| (18 intermediate revisions by 7 users not shown) | |||
Line 14:
== Semi-protected edit request on 20 February 2014 ==
{{tld|edit semi-protected the mane language of Bahawalpur is SARAIKI <!-- Page to be edited -->|answered=no}}
<!-- Begin request -->
Line 28:
[[Special:Contributions/197.78.233.157|197.78.233.157]] ([[User talk:197.78.233.157|talk]]) 19:09, 24 February 2014 (UTC)
:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' this is the [[WP:TP|talk page]] for discussing improvements to the page [[:Help:Getting started]]. Please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned.<!-- Template:ESp --> --'''[[User talk:ElHef|<
== Chinese Medal Cloud and Banner ==
Line 94:
[[User:Sewak nathupur|Sewak nathupur]] ([[User talk:Sewak nathupur|talk]]) 04:36, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
:{{Not done}} as you have not requested a change, but I suspect you are in the wrong place, as this page is only to discuss improvements to [[Help:Getting started]]. - [[User:Arjayay|Arjayay]] ([[User talk:Arjayay|talk]]) 11:05, 17 February 2016 (UTC)
== What about semiprotecting this talk-page? ==
At [[WP:RFP]], the following request was made, and declined by me.
"'''Indefinite semi-protection:''' For some reason, and despite notices on this page, new users seem to frequently post to this Talk page which is intended for discussion of improvements to the [[Help:Getting started]] page, not as a place to request help. Please semi-protect indefinitely. <span style="font-family: Gill Sans MT, Arial, Helvetica; font-weight:140;">[[User:General Ization|<i style="color:#006633;">General Ization</i>]]</span> <sup>''[[User talk:General Ization|<span style="color:#000666;">Talk </span>]] ''</sup> 05:39, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
:[[File:Pictogram voting oppose.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Declined'''<!-- Template:RFPP#deny --> And the newbies are trying to get started and are looking for help; after all it is in good faith. If they make a mistake and use the wrong page, so what? Graciously revert and point them to the right page, try to be helpful and welcoming. [[User:Lectonar|Lectonar]] ([[User talk:Lectonar|talk]]) 20:27, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
::That's just lovely, and happens to be exactly what I would do, but I am not the only person who deals with these edits (and am not interested in making it my mission here). Other editors simply revert them, leaving the newbie's question unanswered; and/or the question will sit for a period of time because no one is actively watching that Talk page. Protecting this page wouldn't penalize for or prevent anyone from seeking help with their good faith questions; it would simply force them to read the content on the page and post the question in a ___location where it is likely to be answered. Please give this a reconsideration. <span style="font-family: Gill Sans MT, Arial, Helvetica; font-weight:140;">[[User:General Ization|<i style="color:#006633;">General Ization</i>]]</span> <sup>''[[User talk:General Ization|<span style="color:#000666;">Talk </span>]] ''</sup> 20:38, 6 March 2016 (UTC)"
What do people think: is semiprotection a solution for the problem, is it necessary at all, is a more welcoming attitude perhaps a way forward? [[User:Lectonar|Lectonar]] ([[User talk:Lectonar|talk]]) 21:08, 6 March 2016 (UTC)
:{{tq|For some reason...}} Background is [[Wikipedia:Village_pump_(proposals)#New_accounts_-_initial_notification|here]], together with the question about how to handle this talk page. When the welcome notification linked to [[Wikipedia:Welcoming committee/Welcome to Wikipedia]], the corresponding talk page was eventually redirected to the [[WP:Teahouse|Teahouse]]. No-one there has yet said if they favour such a redirection. If you look at the history of either of the talk pages you see that new editors add a wide variety of things: no doubt we'd mostly agree that a newbie's request for help on editing Wikipedia should receive a helpful answer, wherever posted; but many of the contributions <s>(example below)</s> don't seem to come into this category, and TBH may not be worth spending much effort on[[User:Noyster|: <b style="color:seagreen">Noyster</b>]] [[User talk:Noyster|<span style="color:seagreen"> (talk),</span> ]] 00:06, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
:A redirect does not work in this case because of the way the people are getting here. -- [[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 03:21, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
: '''Support''' indefinite or extended (several weeks? months?) semi-protection. It's just ridiculous what's going on here and how often it happens, and most of the newbies' test posts or ask posts here aren't in any way answerable at all. (It's so easy for them to not even look at what page they're on, smash their keyboard and save and never come back, I'm not going to spend even three minutes to come up with a "useful" response for them.) — [[User:Jeraphine Gryphon|Jeraphine Gryphon]] <sup>([[User talk:Jeraphine Gryphon|talk]])</sup> 07:02, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
: '''Support''' indefinite protection as well, though I don't know if it clashes with any existing policies. I actually feel it may help new users, by instead of clicking "edit" without reading the top messageboxes and getting reverted, they may be more likely to read the messagebox contents and find the help or test pages that they're really looking for. <span class="nowrap">[[User:Evolution and evolvability|T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)]]<sup>[[User talk:Evolution and evolvability|talk]]</sup></span> 10:25, 7 March 2016 (UTC)
: '''Support''' indefinite protection --[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 01:45, 8 March 2016 (UTC)
(unarchiving since a decision hasn't been made) — [[User:Jeraphine Gryphon|Jeraphine Gryphon]] <sup>([[User talk:Jeraphine Gryphon|talk]])</sup> 15:41, 12 March 2016 (UTC)
It's protected. ...for four days. Oh. — [[User:Jeraphine Gryphon|Jeraphine Gryphon]] <sup>([[User talk:Jeraphine Gryphon|talk]])</sup> 13:21, 13 March 2016 (UTC)
:{{re|Jeraphine Gryphon}} Do you know if this has been corrected to indefinite yet? <span class="nowrap">[[User:Evolution and evolvability|T.Shafee(Evo﹠Evo)]]<sup>[[User talk:Evolution and evolvability|talk]]</sup></span> 22:27, 17 March 2016 (UTC)
:: Nope. Protection log is here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?action=view&page=Help_talk%3AGetting_started&type=protect — [[User:Jeraphine Gryphon|Jeraphine Gryphon]] <sup>([[User talk:Jeraphine Gryphon|talk]])</sup> 08:04, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
:Now it is.:). As promised, and by overwhelming consensus, the need for semiprotection is acknowledged (although it still feels wrong for me).[[User:Lectonar|Lectonar]] ([[User talk:Lectonar|talk]]) 09:10, 18 March 2016 (UTC)
== Suggest adding some earlier clarity on templates ==
I've been a Wikipedia editor here and there for many years. But one thing I never quite understood was templates. Without knowing what they were called, it's quite complex to find out more about them, and that is partly because there's no mention of them on basic help pages such as this page (or as far as I can tell, even early on in any link given on this page). They're in basically every Wikipedia page (and particularly stand out as confusing in the Wiki Markup Editor) and are used to accomplish very many important tasks. I would suggest better inclusion of this topic... perhaps as a 6th link under Editing with Wiki Markup, though open to a better ___location. Perhaps many don't struggle with the concept as much as I did, but I've even got a bit of a programming background (HTML, C++, PHP), and it wasn't straightforward what they were or how to use them. I imagine it is that way for many new users. Just some very basic text on what they are (a way to setup a standardized section across many pages?) and basic links on where to get more information might well make a world of difference to many newer users.
Thanks! [[User:JeopardyTempest|JeopardyTempest]] ([[User talk:JeopardyTempest|talk]]) 07:36, 23 August 2016 (UTC)
:{{reply|JeopardyTempest|}} They are not very well taken as a 'programming' thing, unless you are coming from the perspective of something like Lisp. Templates (or other pages) are 'transcluded' into other pages, and the help pages on mediawiki.org are the best place to start. Essentially, they are 'unrolled' into a version that reflects the actual page being viewed without transclusion, and then evaluated inside out. [[User:Revent|<span style="color:#151B54;font-family:comic sans ms">Revent</span>]]<sup>[[User talk:Revent|<b style="font-family:comic sans ms;color:#006400">talk</b>]]</sup> 20:29, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
::{{reply|Revent|}} Oh, it's no worries here, I worked on through it, and sorted out enough of them to make headway on the template that wasn't working properly... it's more for the next guy who comes along confused. And indeed while they're different enough from typical programming that skills don't help a ton... I think they'd be even more mysterious to an everyday Joe trying to come and help with a typical wikipedia article. Just wish to improve the info available... I've always found Wikipedia help a bit disjointed and tough to approach, and just want to help try to make it better (I'd already added some text to some of the help you directed me towards to try to clarify some things I had trouble understanding). But do you have any thoughts on adding something to the more central help here, even adding something as simple as being along the lines of: 'What's the deal with the things in {}? -- These are [[templates]], one of the more complex tools... they're fairly complex, so you may want to wait to learn about them until later, but here's a link for when you want to learn more.' I see this page as kind of a key starting point for help (unless there's another spot??), and so vital to bring as comprehensively directive as possible :-) Thanks for your response! [[User:JeopardyTempest|JeopardyTempest]] ([[User talk:JeopardyTempest|talk]]) 22:10, 24 August 2016 (UTC)
== Protect It! ==
You should fully protect this page! {{Edit semi-protected|answered=y}}[[User:Carlitos Carrisoza|Carlitos Carrisoza]] ([[User talk:Carlitos Carrisoza|talk]]) 00:50, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
:{{Not done}} - yours is the only edit to this page in over three months, and we rarely protect talk pages - [[User:Arjayay|Arjayay]] ([[User talk:Arjayay|talk]]) 17:07, 27 November 2016 (UTC)
The page I meant was the one linked to this one. [[User:Carlitos Carrisoza|Carlitos Carrisoza]] ([[User talk:Carlitos Carrisoza|talk]]) 03:08, 20 December 2016 (UTC)
== Y'know... ==
Wikipedians forgot ALL about [[Wikipedia:Twinkle|Twinkle]]'s ability to welcome others with help. I just finally edited it in there. ''You don't need to thank me, if you don't want to.'' [[User:Xyaena|*Xyaena~*]] ([[User talk:Xyaena|talk]]) 19:32, 1 March 2017 (UTC)
==Survey==
Hey all,
I'm looking into doing some research about the things that users seek out help for. If noone has any objections I'd like to add a brief survey to this page to collect some anonymous data about what people are looking for and how we can help them better. I'd like to add this in the next week or so. Ping me if anyone has any issues with this. [[User:Seddon (WMF)|Seddon (WMF)]] ([[User talk:Seddon (WMF)|talk]]) 22:57, 27 April 2017 (UTC)
==Question==
Thanking you sir, I need saving changes in my Wikipedia templates. [[User:Rahq09|Rahq09]] ([[User talk:Rahq09|talk]]) 04:37, 22 January 2018 (UTC)
:Please ask "how to" questions at the [[WP:TH|Teahouse]], rather than here. [[User:Nick Moyes|Nick Moyes]] ([[User talk:Nick Moyes|talk]]) 12:09, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
==Hidden title==
Why was the [[Template:Hidden title]] added to this article on {{diff|Help:Getting started|806284400|803947599|21 October 2017}}? That template wasn't meant for ordinary Wikipedia pages (see [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 July 21#Template:Hidden title]]. Not having a title displayed makes copy/paste of the article name impossible. Please remove that template. -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 06:17, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
:They were added to the 3 automated "New user landing pages" like Wikipedia:Article_wizard ....if you need to link the page we have short cuts.--[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 14:13, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
::If I want to point a new editor to this page, presenting it as [[H:GS]] will not tell them what is meant. I shouldn't have written "impossible". Of course I know that there are several other ways to get the ordinary page name for cut/paste purposes, it's only impossible with my normal method: double click the page name and Ctrl+C. It just struck me as very odd when I looked at the page and there was no page name. Looking at [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Hidden title]] showed that it's only used on Article Wizard and Wikipedia Adventure pages – and this one. I didn't see the connection. I still don't see the need to hide the title on this page, but … <shrug />. -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 14:49, 7 December 2017 (UTC)
:I am not sure how to explain...but these are [[Wikipedia:New user landing page]]s that are automated ....as in new editors are directed here by bot or redirect due to an action. We have [[Wikipedia:Instructional material]]--[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 21:22, 8 December 2017 (UTC)
::I must support concerns raised by {{u|Michael Bednarek}} at the recent hiding of this page's title. I see no reason for it; it does indeed make linking to this page much harder. Showing "[[Help:Getting started]]" is never going to confuse any user - it's a convention they're going to see throughout their Wikipedia editing days. I'm currently putting an online and printed help sheet together for new editors at editathons. No longer having a clear, linkabe page title is a retrograde step in my view, and should be restored asap. I'm afraid the explanation for this (given above) failed to impart any understanding on my part. Regards from the UK, [[User:Nick Moyes|Nick Moyes]] ([[User talk:Nick Moyes|talk]]) 12:09, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
:::I have restored the title. That they are aimed at newbies is no reason these pages should break with the convention used across the rest of Wikipedia, in fact it's a reason they should follow it. [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|<span style="color: #008000">"?!"</span>]] 13:00, 11 February 2018 (UTC)
== Delete my account ==
Hi I would like to delete my account as I don’t want to edit anymore.
Thanks,
Gillingham fc lover [[User:Gillingham Fc lover|Gillingham Fc lover]] ([[User talk:Gillingham Fc lover|talk]]) 18:43, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
:It's not possible to delete accounts. You can simply just stop using it. – [[User:Ammarpad|Ammarpad]] ([[User talk:Ammarpad|talk]]) 21:43, 23 November 2019 (UTC)
== Confusing thanks being received ==
A few weeks ago, I [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help%3AGetting_started&type=revision&diff=936103911&oldid=933641124 made an extremely minor copy edit] to this page. Since then, I've [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=thanks&user=&page=User%3ASdkb&wpdate=&tagfilter= been periodically being thanked] by users who do not appear to have made any edits at all. Anyone know what's going on here? [[User:Sdkb|Sdkb]] ([[User talk:Sdkb|talk]]) 04:02, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
:Yup....your just last to edit. Thousands of new editors get this page a day ...some like to press the thank button for fun. Have fun till someone else edits the page......lol I will take it back over....I take it as an opportunity to link them to our help pages--<span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">[[User_talk:Moxy|Moxy]]</span> <span style="color:red">🍁</span> 04:05, 19 February 2020 (UTC)
==Ambassador training / deprecated content==
Under Training for student assignments, if one follows the link to the Ambassador training, the welcome page includes the following notice:
<blockquote> This Wikipedia page has been superseded by training content on dashboard.wikiedu.org and outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org, and it is retained primarily for historical interest.</blockquote>
Neither of these suggested links appear to be on this page. (I realize they might be a second degree of separation.)
Could someone more familiar with this help space look at these links and decide whether to add them to this page?
Also, I suggest that a new section be added for content that is now considered "of historical interest." Thoughts? [[User:Zatsugaku|Zatsugaku]] ([[User talk:Zatsugaku|talk]]) 15:55, 6 July 2021 (UTC)
== 1900+ sentences for ... getting started? ==
Used an online utility to scan readability of what should be an introduction:
''Indication of the number of years of formal education that a person requires in order to easily understand the text on the first reading''
Gunning Fog index: 20.45
''Approximate representation of the U.S. grade level needed to comprehend the text:''
29.80 Coleman Liau index
22.91 Flesch Kincaid Grade level
26.81 ARI (Automated Readability Index)
17.19 SMOG:
-31.27 Flesch Reading Ease:
Number of characters (without spaces): 324,404.00
Number of words: 40,646.00
Number of sentences: 1,909.00
[https://www.online-utility.org/text/lexical-density.jsp Lexical Density]: 92.64
... and so on.
'''Suggestion:''' Might a better approach include a search box for "How do I ...?" related inquiries? [[User:Jasonbrown1965|Jasonbrown1965]] ([[User talk:Jasonbrown1965|talk]]) 10:14, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
:Seeing no response I must conclude that, for getting started as an editor, Wikipedia is dysfunctional.
:Nineteen hundred sentences!
:1900 ^
:1.9k ^ [[User:Jasonbrown1965|Jasonbrown1965]] ([[User talk:Jasonbrown1965|talk]]) 06:15, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
::@[[User:Jasonbrown1965|Jasonbrown1965]], I'm very much not a fan of this page either. It should be formatted more as a back-end list of different attempts at making a starting page than an actual starting page itself, and it should never be the place we send newcomers. I think [[Help:Introduction]] does a somewhat better job, although it's still longer than it ought to be. Overall, Wikipedia has an inherent amount of complexity that'll never fully be simplifyable, but we can do a lot better. Regarding your search box idea, the present search box at the top of each page is capable of ___location help pages if you just prefix your query with "WP:" or "Help:". Of course, that's only useful if people actually know to do it... <span style="color:#AAA"><small>{{u|</small><span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#088">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF">'''Sdkb'''</span>]]</span><small>}}</small></span> <sup>[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]</sup> 06:43, 22 October 2022 (UTC)
:::Had a quick look at Help:Introduction and yes much better job.
:::Suggestion: Could an interim answer be as simple (ha!) as beginner/advanced toggles?
:::And/or, more appropriately, simple, well-flagged wikipedia pages.
:::Suggestion: legacy wordhacks suggest simple draft text, and,
:::hand-off to more technically competent editors?
:::Further suggestion: drafting process NOT take place on "Talk" pages.
:::Why? The full-screen text format 'might' be comfortable for coders,
:::but information overload for anyone else.
:::Query: is there an app for ^ that?*
:::Agreed: "Of course, that's only useful if people actually know to do it"
:::Exactly. Thanks for the prompt, from whence come suggestions.
:::Comment: Emphathise with any and all editors/admins/techs,
:::having to make Wikipedia aircraft carrier turn like a gunboat. I'm
:::grateful to get feedback.
:::ps: late reply, still getting over a double-concussion.
:::Sometime brain work. Sometime nah.
:::Excuse line breaks,
:::easier for brain
:::* e.g. an app that turns a hideous wall of text into something mobile-friendly, responsive [[User:Jasonbrown1965|Jasonbrown1965]] ([[User talk:Jasonbrown1965|talk]]) 08:14, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
::::@[[User:Jasonbrown1965|Jasonbrown1965]], re the toggle suggestion, we have {{t|beginner version}} for pairing more advanced and less advanced help pages.
::::For your second suggestion, if I understand it correctly, you're looking for better collaboration between writers and technical editors. Is that correct? [[mw:Growth/Article creation for new editors]] is a project that seeks to eliminate some of the technical obstacles to article creation.
::::Article drafting should ideally take place in sandboxes, either in [[WP:Draftspace|draftspace]] or [[WP:Userspace|userspace]], not on talk pages, which are really more for discussion about e.g. what should or should not go in an article. <span style="color:#AAA"><small>{{u|</small><span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#088">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF">'''Sdkb'''</span>]]</span><small>}}</small></span> <sup>[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]</sup> 20:30, 6 July 2023 (UTC)
:::::Pardon me for the very late reply, but even this talk-page is a forest for non-tech people. As for the "beginner version" oh my goodness, thank you for the link, most kind. How may I ask this, most constructively ?
:::::Is. There. A. Wizard. Version ?
:::::No disrespect, but we're pretty busy out here, too ! [[User:Jasonbrown1965|Jasonbrown1965]] ([[User talk:Jasonbrown1965|talk]]) 09:04, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
::::::{{u|Jasonbrown1965}}, no disrespect to you, either, but you seems to have found one of the countless help pages that are [[WP:PAG|neither policies nor guidelines]], and are quite obscure. This page was created 15 years ago, and is neither frequently cited nor often recommended by Wikipedia editors. I am highly active yet I am barely aware of it. I think I watch it because it got vandalized once. There are many, ''many'', '''many''' other pages recommended by active editors every day that are far more important to improve than this backwater. Keep in mind that any editor in good standing can create an unofficial page like this. That's my opinion. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 09:43, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
:::::::@[[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]], this page at least used to be much more prominent than most. It was linked from {{t|Welcome}} and is still linked from [[MediaWiki:Notification-welcome-link|the notification new users get after they start editing]]. I [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 180#How do I find this?|tried]] to change it several years ago to [[Help: Introduction]] but met some opposition, and these days I think [[Special:Homepage]] might be a good target.
:::::::It may also still be linked from some other places I haven't managed to ferret out and switch to [[H:I]]. Feel free to help out by changing any you notice.
:::::::Also, I think renaming this page to something like [[Help:List of getting started pages]] might help make it clearer what it contains and that it shouldn't be where we actually send most newcomers. Cheers, <span style="border:3px outset;border-radius:8pt 0;padding:1px 5px;background:linear-gradient(6rad,#86c,#2b9)">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF;text-decoration:inherit;font:1em Lucida Sans">Sdkb</span>]]</span> <sup>[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]</sup> 14:59, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
::::::::Last thing we should do is send readers to an accessibility nightmare page. That said we could trim this page of all the junk....lead readers to our 3 main pages.
::::::::[[ File:Screenshot of help page.png|thumb |center|300px|why send our readers to a page where only 1/4 of the page is devoted to serviceable info that is all sandwiched ]] <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">[[User:Moxy|Moxy]]</span>🍁 15:42, 30 April 2024 (UTC)
| |||