Help talk:Getting started/Archive 1: Difference between revisions

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== Semi-protected edit request on 20 February 2014 ==

{{tld|edit semi-protected the mane language of Bahawalpur is SARAIKI <!-- Page to be edited -->|answered=no}}

<!-- Begin request -->

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[[Special:Contributions/197.78.233.157|197.78.233.157]] ([[User talk:197.78.233.157|talk]]) 19:09, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

:[[File:Red information icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' this is the [[WP:TP|talk page]] for discussing improvements to the page [[:Help:Getting started]]. Please make your request at the talk page for the article concerned.<!-- Template:ESp --> --'''[[User talk:ElHef|<fontspan colorstyle="color:red;">El</fontspan><fontspan colorstyle="color:orange;">Hef</fontspan>]]'''&nbsp;<small>([[Special:Contributions/ElHef|<fontspan colorstyle="color:black;">Meep?</fontspan>]])</small> 19:21, 24 February 2014 (UTC)

== Chinese Medal Cloud and Banner ==

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At [[WP:RFP]], the following request was made, and declined by me.

"'''Indefinite semi-protection:''' For some reason, and despite notices on this page, new users seem to frequently post to this Talk page which is intended for discussion of improvements to the [[Help:Getting started]] page, not as a place to request help. Please semi-protect indefinitely. <span style="font-family: Gill Sans MT, Arial, Helvetica; font-weight:140;">[[User:General Ization|<fonti colorstyle="color:#006633;">General <i>Ization</i></font>]]</span> ^{''[[User talk:General Ization|<fontspan colorstyle="color:#000666;">Talk </fontspan>]] ''} 05:39, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

:{{RFPP[[File:Pictogram voting oppose.svg|d}}20px|link=|alt=]] '''Declined'''<!-- Template:RFPP#deny --> And the newbies are trying to get started and are looking for help; after all it is in good faith. If they make a mistake and use the wrong page, so what? Graciously revert and point them to the right page, try to be helpful and welcoming. [[User:Lectonar|Lectonar]] ([[User talk:Lectonar|talk]]) 20:27, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

::That's just lovely, and happens to be exactly what I would do, but I am not the only person who deals with these edits (and am not interested in making it my mission here). Other editors simply revert them, leaving the newbie's question unanswered; and/or the question will sit for a period of time because no one is actively watching that Talk page. Protecting this page wouldn't penalize for or prevent anyone from seeking help with their good faith questions; it would simply force them to read the content on the page and post the question in a ___location where it is likely to be answered. Please give this a reconsideration. <span style="font-family: Gill Sans MT, Arial, Helvetica; font-weight:140;">[[User:General Ization|<fonti colorstyle="color:#006633;">General <i>Ization</i></font>]]</span> ^{''[[User talk:General Ization|<fontspan colorstyle="color:#000666;">Talk </fontspan>]] ''} 20:38, 6 March 2016 (UTC)"

What do people think: is semiprotection a solution for the problem, is it necessary at all, is a more welcoming attitude perhaps a way forward? [[User:Lectonar|Lectonar]] ([[User talk:Lectonar|talk]]) 21:08, 6 March 2016 (UTC)

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Thanking you sir, I need saving changes in my Wikipedia templates. [[User:Rahq09|Rahq09]] ([[User talk:Rahq09|talk]]) 04:37, 22 January 2018 (UTC)

:Please ask "how to" questions at the [[WP:TH|Teahouse]], rather than here. [[User:Nick Moyes|Nick Moyes]] ([[User talk:Nick Moyes|talk]]) 12:09, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

==Hidden title==

Why was the [[Template:Hidden title]] added to this article on {{diff|Help:Getting started|806284400|803947599|21 October 2017}}? That template wasn't meant for ordinary Wikipedia pages (see [[Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 July 21#Template:Hidden title]]. Not having a title displayed makes copy/paste of the article name impossible. Please remove that template. -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 06:17, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

:They were added to the 3 automated "New user landing pages" like Wikipedia:Article_wizard ....if you need to link the page we have short cuts.--[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 14:13, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

::If I want to point a new editor to this page, presenting it as [[H:GS]] will not tell them what is meant. I shouldn't have written "impossible". Of course I know that there are several other ways to get the ordinary page name for cut/paste purposes, it's only impossible with my normal method: double click the page name and Ctrl+C. It just struck me as very odd when I looked at the page and there was no page name. Looking at [[Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Hidden title]] showed that it's only used on Article Wizard and Wikipedia Adventure pages – and this one. I didn't see the connection. I still don't see the need to hide the title on this page, but … <shrug />. -- [[User:Michael Bednarek|Michael Bednarek]] ([[User talk:Michael Bednarek|talk]]) 14:49, 7 December 2017 (UTC)

:I am not sure how to explain...but these are [[Wikipedia:New user landing page]]s that are automated ....as in new editors are directed here by bot or redirect due to an action. We have [[Wikipedia:Instructional material]]--[[User:Moxy|Moxy]] ([[User talk:Moxy|talk]]) 21:22, 8 December 2017 (UTC)

::I must support concerns raised by {{u|Michael Bednarek}} at the recent hiding of this page's title. I see no reason for it; it does indeed make linking to this page much harder. Showing "[[Help:Getting started]]" is never going to confuse any user - it's a convention they're going to see throughout their Wikipedia editing days. I'm currently putting an online and printed help sheet together for new editors at editathons. No longer having a clear, linkabe page title is a retrograde step in my view, and should be restored asap. I'm afraid the explanation for this (given above) failed to impart any understanding on my part. Regards from the UK, [[User:Nick Moyes|Nick Moyes]] ([[User talk:Nick Moyes|talk]]) 12:09, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

:::I have restored the title. That they are aimed at newbies is no reason these pages should break with the convention used across the rest of Wikipedia, in fact it's a reason they should follow it. [[User:the wub|the wub]] [[User_talk:The wub|<span style="color: #008000">"?!"</span>]] 13:00, 11 February 2018 (UTC)

== Delete my account ==

Hi I would like to delete my account as I don’t want to edit anymore.

Thanks,

Gillingham fc lover [[User:Gillingham Fc lover|Gillingham Fc lover]] ([[User talk:Gillingham Fc lover|talk]]) 18:43, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

:It's not possible to delete accounts. You can simply just stop using it. – [[User:Ammarpad|Ammarpad]] ([[User talk:Ammarpad|talk]]) 21:43, 23 November 2019 (UTC)

== Confusing thanks being received ==

A few weeks ago, I [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Help%3AGetting_started&type=revision&diff=936103911&oldid=933641124 made an extremely minor copy edit] to this page. Since then, I've [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Log?type=thanks&user=&page=User%3ASdkb&wpdate=&tagfilter= been periodically being thanked] by users who do not appear to have made any edits at all. Anyone know what's going on here? [[User:Sdkb|Sdkb]] ([[User talk:Sdkb|talk]]) 04:02, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

:Yup....your just last to edit. Thousands of new editors get this page a day ...some like to press the thank button for fun. Have fun till someone else edits the page......lol I will take it back over....I take it as an opportunity to link them to our help pages--<span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">[[User_talk:Moxy|Moxy]]</span> <span style="color:red">🍁</span> 04:05, 19 February 2020 (UTC)

==Ambassador training / deprecated content==

Under Training for student assignments, if one follows the link to the Ambassador training, the welcome page includes the following notice:

<blockquote> This Wikipedia page has been superseded by training content on dashboard.wikiedu.org and outreachdashboard.wmflabs.org, and it is retained primarily for historical interest.</blockquote>

Neither of these suggested links appear to be on this page. (I realize they might be a second degree of separation.)

Could someone more familiar with this help space look at these links and decide whether to add them to this page?

Also, I suggest that a new section be added for content that is now considered "of historical interest." Thoughts? [[User:Zatsugaku|Zatsugaku]] ([[User talk:Zatsugaku|talk]]) 15:55, 6 July 2021 (UTC)

== 1900+ sentences for ... getting started? ==

Used an online utility to scan readability of what should be an introduction:

''Indication of the number of years of formal education that a person requires in order to easily understand the text on the first reading''

Gunning Fog index: 20.45

''Approximate representation of the U.S. grade level needed to comprehend the text:''

29.80 Coleman Liau index

22.91 Flesch Kincaid Grade level

26.81 ARI (Automated Readability Index)

17.19 SMOG:

-31.27 Flesch Reading Ease:

Number of characters (without spaces): 324,404.00

Number of words: 40,646.00

Number of sentences: 1,909.00

[https://www.online-utility.org/text/lexical-density.jsp Lexical Density]: 92.64

... and so on.

'''Suggestion:''' Might a better approach include a search box for "How do I ...?" related inquiries? [[User:Jasonbrown1965|Jasonbrown1965]] ([[User talk:Jasonbrown1965|talk]]) 10:14, 21 May 2022 (UTC)

:Seeing no response I must conclude that, for getting started as an editor, Wikipedia is dysfunctional.

:Nineteen hundred sentences!

:1900 ^

:1.9k ^ [[User:Jasonbrown1965|Jasonbrown1965]] ([[User talk:Jasonbrown1965|talk]]) 06:15, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

::@[[User:Jasonbrown1965|Jasonbrown1965]], I'm very much not a fan of this page either. It should be formatted more as a back-end list of different attempts at making a starting page than an actual starting page itself, and it should never be the place we send newcomers. I think [[Help:Introduction]] does a somewhat better job, although it's still longer than it ought to be. Overall, Wikipedia has an inherent amount of complexity that'll never fully be simplifyable, but we can do a lot better. Regarding your search box idea, the present search box at the top of each page is capable of ___location help pages if you just prefix your query with "WP:" or "Help:". Of course, that's only useful if people actually know to do it... <span style="color:#AAA"><small>&#123;{u&#124;</small><span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#088">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF">'''Sdkb'''</span>]]</span><small>}&#125;</small></span> ^{[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]} 06:43, 22 October 2022 (UTC)

:::Had a quick look at Help:Introduction and yes much better job.

:::Suggestion: Could an interim answer be as simple (ha!) as beginner/advanced toggles?

:::And/or, more appropriately, simple, well-flagged wikipedia pages.

:::Suggestion: legacy wordhacks suggest simple draft text, and,

:::hand-off to more technically competent editors?

:::Further suggestion: drafting process NOT take place on "Talk" pages.

:::Why? The full-screen text format 'might' be comfortable for coders,

:::but information overload for anyone else.

:::Query: is there an app for ^ that?*

:::Agreed: "Of course, that's only useful if people actually know to do it"

:::Exactly. Thanks for the prompt, from whence come suggestions.

:::Comment: Emphathise with any and all editors/admins/techs,

:::having to make Wikipedia aircraft carrier turn like a gunboat. I'm

:::grateful to get feedback.

:::ps: late reply, still getting over a double-concussion.

:::Sometime brain work. Sometime nah.

:::Excuse line breaks,

:::easier for brain

:::* e.g. an app that turns a hideous wall of text into something mobile-friendly, responsive [[User:Jasonbrown1965|Jasonbrown1965]] ([[User talk:Jasonbrown1965|talk]]) 08:14, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

::::@[[User:Jasonbrown1965|Jasonbrown1965]], re the toggle suggestion, we have {{t|beginner version}} for pairing more advanced and less advanced help pages.

::::For your second suggestion, if I understand it correctly, you're looking for better collaboration between writers and technical editors. Is that correct? [[mw:Growth/Article creation for new editors]] is a project that seeks to eliminate some of the technical obstacles to article creation.

::::Article drafting should ideally take place in sandboxes, either in [[WP:Draftspace|draftspace]] or [[WP:Userspace|userspace]], not on talk pages, which are really more for discussion about e.g. what should or should not go in an article. <span style="color:#AAA"><small>&#123;{u&#124;</small><span style="border-radius:9em;padding:0 5px;background:#088">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF">'''Sdkb'''</span>]]</span><small>}&#125;</small></span> ^{[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]} 20:30, 6 July 2023 (UTC)

:::::Pardon me for the very late reply, but even this talk-page is a forest for non-tech people. As for the "beginner version" oh my goodness, thank you for the link, most kind. How may I ask this, most constructively ?

:::::Is. There. A. Wizard. Version ?

:::::No disrespect, but we're pretty busy out here, too ! [[User:Jasonbrown1965|Jasonbrown1965]] ([[User talk:Jasonbrown1965|talk]]) 09:04, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

::::::{{u|Jasonbrown1965}}, no disrespect to you, either, but you seems to have found one of the countless help pages that are [[WP:PAG|neither policies nor guidelines]], and are quite obscure. This page was created 15 years ago, and is neither frequently cited nor often recommended by Wikipedia editors. I am highly active yet I am barely aware of it. I think I watch it because it got vandalized once. There are many, ''many'', '''many''' other pages recommended by active editors every day that are far more important to improve than this backwater. Keep in mind that any editor in good standing can create an unofficial page like this. That's my opinion. [[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]] ([[User talk:Cullen328|talk]]) 09:43, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

:::::::@[[User:Cullen328|Cullen328]], this page at least used to be much more prominent than most. It was linked from {{t|Welcome}} and is still linked from [[MediaWiki:Notification-welcome-link|the notification new users get after they start editing]]. I [[Wikipedia:Village pump (technical)/Archive 180#How do I find this?|tried]] to change it several years ago to [[Help: Introduction]] but met some opposition, and these days I think [[Special:Homepage]] might be a good target.

:::::::It may also still be linked from some other places I haven't managed to ferret out and switch to [[H:I]]. Feel free to help out by changing any you notice.

:::::::Also, I think renaming this page to something like [[Help:List of getting started pages]] might help make it clearer what it contains and that it shouldn't be where we actually send most newcomers. Cheers, <span style="border:3px outset;border-radius:8pt 0;padding:1px 5px;background:linear-gradient(6rad,#86c,#2b9)">[[User:Sdkb|<span style="color:#FFF;text-decoration:inherit;font:1em Lucida Sans">Sdkb</span>]]</span> ^{[[User talk:Sdkb|'''talk''']]} 14:59, 30 April 2024 (UTC)

::::::::Last thing we should do is send readers to an accessibility nightmare page. That said we could trim this page of all the junk....lead readers to our 3 main pages.

::::::::[[ File:Screenshot of help page.png|thumb |center|300px|why send our readers to a page where only 1/4 of the page is devoted to serviceable info that is all sandwiched ]] <span style="font-weight:bold;color:darkblue">[[User:Moxy|Moxy]]</span>🍁 15:42, 30 April 2024 (UTC)