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== Misplaced banners by bot ==
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== Different shades of green ==
{{resolved}}
{{WPAVIATION|class=b|category=no}}
I am seeing two different shades of green when the B-checklist is used. I don't understand why because they are both using css class <code>assess-b</code> which is defined in [[Module:WikiProject banner/styles.css]] as DFFFBF. I believe this is the paler colour, so I'm not sure where the other green is being defined. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 10:20, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
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::::Well, that's what I get ''initially'', using Firefox, but the green comes in after a fraction of a second. This is clearly a case of [[FOUC]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 22:04, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Is it different when you are logged out? I do not get a background color behind the second B (with the magnifying glass). I checked in Firefox for Mac (logged in), Chrome for Mac (logged out, regular and dark mode), and Safari for Mac (logged out). I also do not see any evidence of a background color when I use Inspect elements in my browser tools. Is it possible that some of you have .css customizations applying this color? Or maybe a different skin? I am using the Vector 2022 skin. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 23:09, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::Yes, it's different when logged out - both greens are shown at page load, there isn't even a flash of brown. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 16:29, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
::::All very strange. The magnifying glass background has always been green for me, on multiple browsers. But when I log out the background disappears. I do not see anything obvious in my personal CSS which could be causing this however. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 10:08, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Even stranger: I am seeing the second green background behind the magnifying glass today. I haven't restarted my computer or even my browser. What a strange situation. Anyway, if we changed that green to dfffbf, would that satisfy those of us who can see the two colors? – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 17:29, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::I think I figured out what may be happening. {{U|WOSlinker}} transcluded <syntaxhighlight inline lang=wikitext><templatestyles src="Module:Class/styles.css"/></syntaxhighlight> in a comment below, so when the module asks for the <code><b class="assess-b">assess-b</b></code> class, that class is now available to me. So I tentatively conclude: the banner is using two different classes, which are pulling colors from two different style sheets when they are available. The fix may be to make the banner module use the same class (probably <code><b class="class-b">class-b</b></code>) for both backgrounds. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 17:46, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::{{fixed}}, I think, with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Module%3AWikiProject_banner%2Fauxiliary&diff=1288445529&oldid=1272930615 this edit]. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 17:50, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Yup, even I was able to see the darker green color as of late. After your edit, I see the same color for both B's in the template. What I still do not understand is why the css was behaving differently for some of us, and differently for the rest yesterday. <span class="nowrap">—'''[[User:CX Zoom|CX Zoom]]'''[he/him]</span> <sup class="nowrap">([[User talk:CX Zoom|let's talk]] • {[[Special:Contributions/CX Zoom|C]]•[[User:CX Zoom/X|X]]})</sup> 18:09, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::As I used to tell my customers when was a person who fixed computers: "I just fix things. Answering 'why' questions is a job for philosophers." – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 18:23, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
:::A search over Template & Module namespaces show that {{legend inline|#b2ff66|#b2ff66}} is the colour defined for B-Class at [[Module:Class/definition.json]] and [[Module:Class/styles.css]]. Where or why is it being called by the banner, I have no idea. <span class="nowrap">—'''[[User:CX Zoom|CX Zoom]]'''[he/him]</span> <sup class="nowrap">([[User talk:CX Zoom|let's talk]] • {[[Special:Contributions/CX Zoom|C]]•[[User:CX Zoom/X|X]]})</sup> 22:15, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
::::[https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?search=insource%3A%2Fb2ff66%2F&title=Special%3ASearch&profile=advanced&fulltext=1&ns7=1&ns8=1&ns9=1&ns10=1&ns11=1&ns12=1&ns13=1&ns14=1&ns15=1&ns100=1&ns101=1&ns118=1&ns119=1&ns126=1&ns127=1&ns710=1&ns711=1&ns828=1 Here's a possibly helpful set of search results]. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 23:13, 1 May 2025 (UTC)
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:Maybe this is the reason. [[Module:Class]] uses the <b class="assess-b">assess-b</b> class with css at [[Module:Class/styles.css]]<templatestyles src="Module:Class/styles.css"/> and [[Module:WikiProject banner]] uses the <b class="class-b">class-b</b> class with css at [[Module:WikiProject banner/styles.css]]<templatestyles src="Module:WikiProject banner/styles.css"/>. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 12:44, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
::I didn't think we were using [[Module:Class]] or [[Module:Class/styles.css]] anymore, but perhaps I'm wrong — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 14:28, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
:::When I am editing this talk page section and I pop open "Templates used in this section:", I see [[:Module:Class/styles.css]]. That page is transcluded in 43K pages. We could change the B-class color there to {{Background color|#DFFFBF|#DFFFBF}} and see if anyone complains. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 17:29, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
::::It's not just the B class that is a different shade when comparing those two css files. -- [[User:WOSlinker|WOSlinker]] ([[User talk:WOSlinker|talk]]) 17:48, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::If I remember correctly, the colors defined at [[Module:Class/definition.json]] were initially used for WP banners during the massive overhaul 2 years ago. There were complaints that these bright colors stand out too much and cause distraction to editors. Eventually, it was agreed to use a lighter pastel-like palette for all classes. <span class="nowrap">—'''[[User:CX Zoom|CX Zoom]]'''[he/him]</span> <sup class="nowrap">([[User talk:CX Zoom|let's talk]] • {[[Special:Contributions/CX Zoom|C]]•[[User:CX Zoom/X|X]]})</sup> 18:06, 2 May 2025 (UTC)
::::That's probably because WOSlinker manually added those styles to this page. If you look at [[User talk:MSGJ/Sandbox/1|my sandbox]] you will not find those styles being used — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 06:29, 6 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::Yes, I figured that out above, and fixed it. The discussion ended up a bit out of order. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 18:45, 7 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::So what do you see on my sandbox? — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 07:08, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::In your sandbox I see: "[[User:MSGJ/Sandbox/1|1]] [[User:MSGJ/Sandbox/2|2]] [[User:MSGJ/Sandbox/3|3]] [[User:MSGJ/Sandbox/4|4]]" – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 13:38, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::{{replyto|Jonesey95}} Not those. MSGJ linked the relevant sandbox in [[#c-MSGJ-20250506062900-Jonesey95-20250502172900|their post of 06:29, 6 May 2025 (UTC)]]. --[[User:Redrose64|<span style="color:#a80000; background:#ffeeee; text-decoration:inherit">Red</span>rose64]] 🌹 ([[User talk:Redrose64|talk]]) 13:59, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Sorry, I couldn't see the link through the noise here. I see two of the same color light-green (#DFFFBF) background, as I would expect after I changed the magnifying-glass cell to use class-b with [https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Module%3AWikiProject_banner%2Fauxiliary&diff=1288445529&oldid=1272930615 this edit]. – [[User:Jonesey95|Jonesey95]] ([[User talk:Jonesey95|talk]]) 14:17, 8 May 2025 (UTC)
::::::::::Ah, okay I hadn't noticed that edit. So everything makes sense then! — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 06:09, 9 May 2025 (UTC)
== WikiProject Higher education ==
I don't know if people are aware of the changes to [[Template:WikiProject Higher education]] which is now using a bespoke module to achieve some unusual behaviour (discussion [[Template talk:WikiProject Higher education#Lua-enabled version of template to accommodate task forces for individual universities|here]] and [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Higher education#Ongoing proposal - merge inactive higher education Wikiprojects|here]]). The change allows editors to specify task forces by using a comma-separated list, i.e. {{para|taskforce|cuny,uva}} instead of the more usual method of {{para|cuny|yes}} and {{para|uva|yes}}.
The problem is that some features are not working (e.g. quality assessment and unknown parameter checking) and it is permanantly in [[:Category:Pages using WikiProject banner shell needing attention]]. So I was wondering if there is a better way to do this, or whether we should look at coding something similar more widely for other projects to use. — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 12:27, 5 June 2025 (UTC)
:I have fixed the template — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 08:57, 10 June 2025 (UTC)
It seems that they wanted to store all their task forces in a configuration file instead of coding each one in the template. This allows the comma-separated list method of triggering each one, as well as keeping the configuration separate from the template code. I have mocked up an example of a config file at [[Template:WikiProject Higher education/config]]. It seems like a very neat way of working. The template would then become something as simple as
<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext">
{{#invoke:WikiProject banner|main|project=Higher Education}}
</syntaxhighlight>
Other advantages: we do not need to pass any parameters through the template, we could supply a list of parameter aliases instead of the horrible <nowiki>{{{a|{{{b|{{{c|}}}}}}}}}</nowiki> construct — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 13:28, 16 June 2025 (UTC)
:I believe we have a working template for the moment, but we always had the vision of expanding this to other areas/uses, so would appreciate any support in making that happen..! [[User:Tduk|Tduk]] ([[User talk:Tduk|talk]]) 13:34, 17 June 2025 (UTC)
:I'm still becoming familiar with this whole lua/template set-up. Would it be at all reasonable to have a parameter to WikiProject banner which points in some way to a helper lua module/function which can be passed the list of args, and return a modified list of args? (Sort of like what we ended up doing but in reverse). This would offer expandability in all sorts of ways. This might be what you've been angling towards yourself. [[User:Tduk|Tduk]] ([[User talk:Tduk|talk]]) 04:01, 18 June 2025 (UTC)
::Please can you explain what you mean by "be passed the list of args, and return a modified list of args", preferably with an example? — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 09:23, 18 June 2025 (UTC)
:::Absolutely. If you took a look at my hokey lua module, you might see what I mean. But something like:
:::<syntaxhighlight lang="lua">
if(args["ProjectArgs"]=="Higher Education") then
args=HigherEducationArgParser(args)
end
</syntaxhighlight>
:::or, even better (if possible)
:::<syntaxhighlight lang="lua">
if(args["ProjectArgs"]!=nil) then
args=_G[args["ProjectArgs"]](args) -- or some other way to define the function name in the template
end
</syntaxhighlight>
:::placed somewhere appropriate in Wikiproject_banner, and written a bit more maintainably...
:::called like this:
:::<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext">
{{#invoke:WikiProject banner|main|ProjectArgs=HigherEducationArgParser}}
</syntaxhighlight>
:::If you wanted, this could be collapsed into how you were calling it:
:::<syntaxhighlight lang="wikitext">
{{#invoke:WikiProject banner|main|project=Higher Education}}
</syntaxhighlight>
:::and the pseudocode might look like:
:::<syntaxhighlight>
local ProjectFunc=string.gsub(args["project"]," ","_") .. "_Argument_Function"
if(ProjectFunc]!=nil) then
args=_G[ProjectFunc](args) -- not sure this works in our framework
end
</syntaxhighlight>
:::Apologies if there are errors, I never saw a line of lua until a few weeks ago, but I'd love to help in any way I can. Does this help explain what I mean? [[User:Tduk|Tduk]] ([[User talk:Tduk|talk]]) 13:51, 18 June 2025 (UTC)
::::I understand most of what you have written, but I still have no idea why you would want to do this, or what the end goal might be. What are you actually trying to achieve, that you can't do now? — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 16:46, 19 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::Really, I'm thinking about the future. No one anticipated what @[[User:Pharos|Pharos]] wanted to be able to do, but what he wants makes sense. I'm trying to think of a system by which others in the future can more easily [[Syntactic sugar|sweeten]] the arguments (in lua rather than a cumbersome template) to WikiProject Banner. Does that make sense? [[User:Tduk|Tduk]] ([[User talk:Tduk|talk]]) 17:25, 24 June 2025 (UTC)
:This looks really great to me, would be happy to adopt the [[Template:WikiProject Higher education/config]] system for that project, and then maybe see if other wikiprojects might be interested in it as well. Ideally this could go some way toward a simpler and more flexible system of wikiprojects/taskforces, especially if we're looking to consolidate more stuff as taskforces in the longer term. [[User:Pharos|Pharos]] ([[User talk:Pharos|talk]]) 17:12, 24 June 2025 (UTC)
::I'll look at coding something in the sandbox — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 09:18, 25 June 2025 (UTC)
:::I coded a mock-up of my idea which I described above, so maybe you can see what it might accomplish if you see an example. See [[Template:WikiProject Higher education test2]] (one additional arg, HELPER), [[Module:WikiProject banner ltest]] (small addition of code around line 150), [[Module:Higher education sweetener]] (essentially our original lua module but in reverse). Do you see how this might be useful down the road in ways we can't currently envision? [[User:Tduk|Tduk]] ([[User talk:Tduk|talk]]) 15:28, 25 June 2025 (UTC)
::::(anyone who wanted to add their own functionality would just need to provide the HELPER arg and their lua helper module - we could eliminate the arg and simply call it if an appropriately named one exists but that feels like asking for trouble). [[User:Tduk|Tduk]] ([[User talk:Tduk|talk]]) 15:34, 25 June 2025 (UTC)
:::::conceivably the lua module could even read in the config file as spec'd above [[User:Tduk|Tduk]] ([[User talk:Tduk|talk]]) 15:37, 25 June 2025 (UTC)
::::::Yes, that's what I had in mind. I have added some code to [[Module:WikiProject banner/sandbox]] and the effect can now be seen on [[Template:WikiProject Higher education/sandbox]]. Interested in your thoughts — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 11:13, 2 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::Perfect, looks like you've solved the generalization problem entirely. [[User:Pharos|Pharos]] ([[User talk:Pharos|talk]]) 18:24, 7 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::This does the job for this, but I would have liked to see a solution that was more expandable down the road by others that wouldn't require so much intervention into the actual banner lua code. (i.e. something less generic that wouldn't have a whole chunk of code just for taskforces in the global lua banner code) Does that make any sense? [[User:Tduk|Tduk]] ([[User talk:Tduk|talk]]) 02:05, 8 July 2025 (UTC)
::::::::No sorry, I can't understand your point. Can you give an example? I've put some of my thoughts below — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 15:30, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
:::::::::Maybe I'm missing something; what happens when someone comes along with a new parameter they would like to be added to the configuration file? [[User:Tduk|Tduk]] ([[User talk:Tduk|talk]]) 17:28, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
My thoughts on the possible benefits to moving to the configuration page approach:
* Simplification of syntax so <code><nowiki>{{{parameter1|{{{parameter2|{{{parameter3|}}}}}}}}}</nowiki></code> is replaced with something like {{para|trigger|parameter1, parameter2, parameter3}}
* Avoid having to pass through parameters completely, so things like {{para|attention|<nowiki>{{{attention|}}}</nowiki>}} will be removed
* Ability to do smarter things like comma-separated task forces (see above).
* Potentially add better support for projects like US Roads which uses {{para|state|AL}} instead of {{para|AL|yes}} and for Women in Red which uses an indefinite number of unnumbered parameters.
* More robust parameter checking and auto documentation which would include aliases. The current setup reads the wikicode of the template and attempts to work out what each parameter does. This has a performance impact.
* Significant simplification of module code which would make it easier for editors to maintain.
— Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 15:29, 11 July 2025 (UTC)
== Assessment issue with "inactive" WikiProjects ==
If I understand this correctly, when you set a project as "inactive" (by replacing {{code|main}} in the template), most of the the arguments from child templates are discarded (around [[Module:WikiProject banner#L-901|line 900]]). This means that if you mark a WikiProject as inactive, then it and all of its task-forces will lose their assessments, as the assessment categories are ignored and not applied.
I know that having a load of seemingly useless categories around isn't great, but the problem is that it's a bit of a death sentence for further collaboration if they disappear; mark a template as inactive and the project page ends up looking like [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Pipe organ|this]] (lots of empty/broken templates due to unpopulated/deleted categories). If someone wants to revive a WikiProject then they'd likely have to go through the process of recreating the assessment system, assuming they made it that far.
Ideally, I think it'd be good to have two levels: '''Inactive''' where assessments are kept, and '''Defunct''' where the categories aren't added. Pretty sure that'd be a huge change though. In the meantime, or as a fix entirely, could a check be added so that existing categories are populated so they don't get deleted?
This is quite relevant due to a [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Council#differing criteria for inactive status|recent discussion]] at the WikiProject Council where they discuss labeling a load of WikiProjects as inactive using {{template|WikiProject status}}; this itself won't effect the assessments, but if anyone sees it then changes the status on the talk page banner, bad times. One of the comments on that thread from [[User:Psychastes|Psychastes]] says, {{tq|Inactive projects still retain all the assessments and article alerts, it's not like an inactive project goes away!}} If that's not actually the case, it needs to be made clear with a big ol' warning in the docs.
...again, assuming I've got this right. Cheers, [[User:Aluxosm|Aluxosm]] ([[User talk:Aluxosm|talk]]) 06:56, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
:You have understood the situation pretty well. There is a {{para|PROJECT_STATUS}} parameter, which accepts values like "inactive" and "defunct", but currently the only effect is a slight change in wording and a microformat. Yes it would be possible to change in the way you suggested, if there was consensus for this. The current situation rests on rough consensus from 2022; please see [[Wikipedia:Village pump (miscellaneous)/Archive 73#Improper handling of assessment for inactive WikiProjects]] for more — Martin <small>([[User:MSGJ|MSGJ]] · [[User talk:MSGJ|talk]])</small> 08:26, 9 July 2025 (UTC)
::Good stuff, cheers for the link! Fun to see the origins of [[WP:PIQA]], and thanks again for all of your work on it. Thinking about it, a more resilient fix (and one that is beneficial in all cases) would be to make the creation of the assessment categories easier; I might take a look at rewriting [[Wikipedia:Version_1.0_Editorial_Team/Generate_categories|this bot]], as well as fixing the templates so that they display a warning about running the bot instead of just erroring out. [[User:Aluxosm|Aluxosm]] ([[User talk:Aluxosm|talk]]) 03:43, 13 July 2025 (UTC)
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