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{| width="80%" align="center" style="text-align:center; border:1px solid #ffc9c9; background-color:#FFFFF3;"
{{Infobox Military Conflict
|- padding:1em;padding-top:0.5em;"
|conflict=Bay of Pigs Invasion
|[[Image:Wikimedia.png|60px|none|Wikimedia Foundation]]
|partof=[[Cold War]]
|style="font-size: 85%"|'''This is a Wikipedia user talk page.'''
|image=
|caption
|date=[[April 15]] - [[April 19]], [[1961]]
|place=[[Bay of Pigs]], Southern [[Cuba]]
|casus=[[Cuban Revolution|The Cuban Revolution]]
|territory=
|result=Victory for the Republic of Cuba
|combatant1=[[Image:Flag of Cuba.svg|22px]] [[Cuba]]ns trained by [[Image:Flag of the Soviet Union.svg|22px]] Soviet advisers
|combatant2=[[Image:Flag of Cuba.svg|22px]][[Cuban exile]]s trained by the [[Image:Flag of the United States.svg|22px]] [[United States]]
|commander1=[[Image:Flag of Cuba.svg|22px]] [[Fidel Castro]]<BR>[[Image:Flag of Cuba.svg|22px]] [[José Ramón Fernández]]<BR> [[Image:Flag of the Soviet Union.svg|25px]] [[Image:Flag of Spain.svg|22px]] [[Francisco Ciutat de Miguel]]
|commander2=[[Image:Flag of the United States.svg|20px]] [[Grayston Lynch]]<BR> [[Image:Flag of Cuba.svg|22px]] [[Pepe San Roman]]<BR>[[Image:Flag of Cuba.svg|22px]] [[Erneido Oliva]]
|strength1=51,000
|strength2=1,500
|casualties1=various estimates; over 1,600 dead (Triay p. 81) to 5,000 total estimated (Lynch)
|casualties2=115 dead<br>1,189 captured
}}
 
[[Image:Alerta.jpg|thumb|230px|Cuban poster warning before invasion showing a soldier armed with an [[RPD]] [[machine gun]].]]
If you find this page on any site other than the [http://en.wikipedia.org/ English Wikipedia], you are viewing a mirror site. Be aware that the page may be outdated, and that I may have no personal affiliation with any site other than Wikipedia itself. The original page is located at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:David_Gerard .
The 1961 '''Bay of Pigs Invasion''' (also known in Cuba as the '''Playa Girón''' after the beach in the [[Bay of Pigs]] where the landing took place) was an unsuccessful [[United States]]-planned and funded attempted invasion by armed [[Cuban exile]]s in southwest [[Cuba]]. An attempt to overthrow the government of [[Fidel Castro]], this action accelerated a rapid deterioration in [[Cuban-American relations]], which was further worsened by the [[Cuban Missile Crisis]] the following year. The name Bay of Pigs comes from Bahía de Cochinos, where in all probability "Cochino" refers to a species of [[Triggerfish]] (Balistes vetula) [http://www.invemar.org.co/redcostera1/invemar/docs/Vol33/BIMC_33_03_Claro.pdf], rather than pigs ([[Boar|Sus scrofa]]).
|}
 
The pigs at the island
Past talk:<br>
Tensions between [[The United States]] and [[Cuba]] had increased steadily since the [[Cuban Revolution]] of 1959. The [[Dwight Eisenhower|Eisenhower]] and [[John F. Kennedy|Kennedy]] administrations had judged that Castro's policies, including the [[expropriation]] of American-owned assets on the island and Cuba's increasing ties with the [[Soviet Union]], could not be tolerated.
[[User talk:David Gerard/archive 1]] (4 Jan 2004 - 31 Dec 2004)<br>
[[User talk:David Gerard/archive 2]] (1 Jan 2005 - 30 Jun 2005)<br>
On March 17, 1960, the [[Dwight D. Eisenhower|Eisenhower]] administration agreed to a recommendation from the CIA to equip and drill Cuban exiles for action against the new Castro government.<ref name="thousand"> ''A Thousand days:John F Kennedy in the White House'' [[Arthur Schlesinger Jr]] 1965 </ref> Eisenhower stated that it was the policy of the U.S. government to aid anti-Castro guerilla forces. The [[Central Intelligence Agency|CIA]] began to recruit and train anti-Castro forces in the [[Sierra Madre de Chiapas|Sierra Madre]] mountains on the Pacific coast of [[Guatemala]].<ref name="thousand"/>
[[User talk:David Gerard/archive 3]] (1 Jul 2005 - 31 Dec 2005)<br>
[[User talk:David Gerard/archive 4]] (1 Jan 2006 - 31 Dec 2006)<br>
 
The CIA was initially confident that it was capable of overthrowing Castro, having experience assisting in the overthrow of other foreign governments such as the government of [[Iran]]ian prime minister [[Mohammed Mossadegh]] in 1953 and [[Guatemala]]n president [[Jacobo Arbenz Guzmán]] in 1954. [[Richard Mervin Bissell Jr.]], one of [[Allen Dulles]]'s three aides, was made director of "Operation Zapata."
Please put new stuff at the bottom, where I'll see it. [[m:CheckUser]] requests (sockpuppet checks, etc) should go to [[WP:RFCU]] unless you're letting me know about a particular problem we've been tracking, in which case I look here far more often.
 
The original plan called for landing the [[Brigade 2506|exile brigade]] (Brigade 2506) in the vicinity of the old colonial city of [[Trinidad, Cuba]], in the central province of [[Sancti Spiritus]] approximately 400 km southeast of Havana at the foothills of the [[Escambray Mountains|Escambray mountains]]. The selection of the Trinidad site provided a number of options that the exile brigade could exploit during the invasion. The population of Trinidad was generally opposed to Castro and the rugged mountains outside the city provided an area into which the invasion force could retreat and establish a [[guerrilla warfare|guerrilla]] campaign were the landing to falter. Throughout 1960, the growing ranks of Brigade 2506 trained at locations throughout southern [[Florida]] and in [[Guatemala]] for the beach landing and possible mountain retreat.
At present, I am attempting to write and add "content" to those "article" things which are apparently there for "readers," rather than doing a lot of Wikipedia admin work. And doing Foundation press. My phone appears to be their phone ...
 
On [[February 17]] [[1961]], [[John F. Kennedy]], the new U.S. president, asked his advisors whether the toppling of Castro might be related to weapon shipments and if it was possible to claim the real targets were modern fighter aircraft and rockets which endangered America's security. At the time, Cuba's army possessed Soviet tanks, artillery and small arms, and its air force consisted of [[A-26 Invader|B-26]] medium bombers, [[Hawker Sea Fury|Hawker Sea Furies]] (a fast and effective, though obsolete, propeller driven [[fighter-bomber]]) and [[T-33]] jets left over from the Batista Air Force.<ref>http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/baypigs-airforce.htm</ref>
----
 
As Kennedy's plans evolved, critical details were changed that were to hamper chances of a successful mission without direct U.S. help. These revised details included changing the landing area for Brigade 2506 to two points in [[Matanzas Province]], 202 km southeast of [[Havana]] on the eastern edge of the Zapata peninsula at the [[Bay of Pigs|Bahía de Cochinos]] (Bay of Pigs). The landings would now take place on the Girón and Playa de zapatos Larga beaches. This change effectively cut off contact with the rebels in the Escambray "[[War Against the Bandits]]". The Castro government also had been warned by senior [[KGB]] agents [[Osvaldo Sánchez Cabrera]] and [["Aragon",]] who respectively died violently before and after the invasion. <!--(Welch and Blight, p. 113)-->The U.S. government was aware that a high casualty rate was possible. {{Fact|date=February 2007}}.
== [[MediaWiki:Copyright]] ==
 
==Soviet Advisers to Cuban government forces==
Hi, you inserted a HTML error:
 
A militia, artillery, and intelligence are necessary to field a regular army. Foreign advisors were brought from [[Eastern Bloc]] countries; the most senior of these were [[Francisco Ciutat de Miguel]], [[Enrique Lister]], and [[Alberto Bayo]].<ref>(Paz-Sanchez, 2001, pp 189-199) </ref> Ciutat de Miguel (Masonic name: Algazel; Russian name: Pavel Pablovich Stepanov; Cuban alias: Ángel Martínez Riosola, commonly referred to as Angelito) is said to have arrived the same day as [[La Coubre explosion]]; he was wounded in the foot during the [[War Against the Bandits]], the type of wound that is common to senior officers observing combat at the edge of effective rifle range. Date of wound is not given in references cited [http://www.sbhac.net/Republica/Personajes/Militares/Militares1.htm]
your code:
<nowiki>... <a href="{{localurl:Charitable organization}}" title="Charitable organization">charity.<br /> </nowiki>
correct code:
<nowiki>... <a href="{{localurl:Charitable organization}}" title="Charitable organization">charity.</a><br /></nowiki>
Regards,
--[[User:Revvar|Revvar]] 14:29, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==Invasion==
:'''[[uncyclopedia:AAAAAAAAA!|AAAAAAAAA!]]''' <small>whoops.</small> - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 15:27, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
On the morning of [[April 15]], [[1961]], three flights of [[Douglas Aircraft Company|Douglas]] [[A-26 Invader|B-26B Invader]] light bomber aircraft displaying Cuban Fuerza Aerea Revolucionaria (FAR - Revolutionary Air Force) markings bombed and strafed the Cuban airfields of [[San Antonio de Los Baños]], Antonio Maceo International Airport, and the airfield at Ciudad Libertad. Operation Puma, the code name given to the [[offensive counter air attack]]s against the [[Cuban Revolutionary Armed Forces]], called for 48 hours of air strikes across the island to effectively eliminate the Cuban air force, ensuring Brigade 2506 complete air superiority over the island prior to the actual landing at the Bay of Pigs. This failed because the airstrikes were not continued, as was originally planned - limited by decisions at the highest level of US government. The second wave of airstrikes, designed to wipe out the remainder of Castro's airforce was stopped due to a communication breakdown rather than a lack of political will{{Fact|date=February 2007}}. [[Adlai Stevenson]], the US ambassador to the United Nations had been embarrassed by revelations that the first wave of airstrikes had been carried out by US planes despite his repeated denials that this was so. He contacted [[McGeorge Bundy]] who, unaware of the critical importance to the mission of the second wave, cancelled the airstrike despite Kennedy's earlier approval for it. Castro also had prior knowledge of the invasion and had moved the airplanes out of harm's way.
[[Image:BayofPigs.jpg|350px|right|thumb|Map showing the ___location of the Bay of Pigs.]]
Of the Brigade 2506 aircraft that sortied on the morning of [[April 15]], one was tasked with establishing the CIA cover story for the invasion. The slightly modified two-seat B-26B used for this mission was piloted by [[Captain]] Mario Zuniga. Prior to departure, the engine cowling from one of the aircraft's two engines was removed by maintenance personnel, fired upon, then re-installed to give the appearance that the aircraft had taken ground fire at some point during its flight. Captain Zuniga departed from the exile base in [[Nicaragua]] on a solo, low-flying mission that would take him over the westernmost province of [[Pinar del Río|Pinar del Rio]], Cuba, and then northeast toward [[Key West, Florida]]. Once across the island, Captain Zuniga climbed steeply away from the waves of the [[Florida Straits]] to an altitude where he would be detected by US radar installations to the north of Cuba. At altitude and a safe distance north of the island, Captain Zuniga feathered the engine with the pre-installed bullet holes in the engine cowling, radioed a mayday call, and requested immediate permission to land at Boca Chica Naval Air Station a few kilometers northeast of [[Key West, Florida]]. This account is at apparent variance with Cuban government reports that [[Sea Fury]], [[B-26]] fighter bombers and [[T-33]] trainers flown by the few Cuban (notable Rafael del Pino, (Lagas, 1964)) and some left-wing Chilean and Nicaraguan pilots (Lagas, 1964; Somoza-Debayle and Jack Cox, 1980), loyal to Castro attacked the older slower B-26s flown by the invading force.<ref>http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/ArticGiron1-e.html</ref>
 
By the time of Captain Zuniga's announcement to the world mid-morning on the 15th, all but one of the Brigade's Douglas bombers were back over the Caribbean on the three and a half hour return leg to their base in Nicaragua to re-arm and refuel. Upon landing, however, the flight crews were met with a cable from Washington ordering the indefinite stand-down of all further combat operations over Cuba.
== Oversight ==
 
On [[April 17]], four 2,400-ton chartered transports (named the ''Houston'', ''Río Escondido'', ''Caribe'', and ''Atlántico'') transported 1,511 Cuban exiles to the Bay of Pigs on the Southern coast of Cuba. They were accompanied by two CIA-owned infantry landing crafts (LCI's), called the ''Blagar'' and ''Barbara J'', containing supplies, ordnance, and equipment. The small army hoped to find support from the local population, intending to cross the island to [[Havana]]. The CIA assumed that the invasion would spark a popular uprising against Castro. However, the
Your userpage says that you have never used it. I think that neds to be updated [[image:smile.png]]. -- [[User:Avraham|Avi]] 22:10, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Escambray rebels had been contained by Cuban militia directed by [[Francisco Ciutat de Miguel]] (see Soviet Advisers to Cuban government forces above). By the time the Invasion began, Castro had already executed some who were suspected of colluding with the American campaign (notably two former "Comandantes" Humberto Sorí Marin and [[William Alexander Morgan]]<ref>http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/morgan/Morgan-03-13-6]</ref><ref>http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/bayofpigs/chron.html</ref> Others executed included Alberto Tapia Ruano, a catholic youth leader. April was a bloody month for the resistance. Several hundreds of thousands were imprisoned before, during and after the invasion (Priestland, 2003).
 
After landing, it soon became evident that the exiles were not going to receive effective support at the site of the invasion and were likely to lose. Reports from both sides describe tank battles (see much detail in printed references section below) involving heavy USSR equipment.<ref name="SPlister.htm">http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/SPlister.htm</ref> Kennedy decided against giving the faltering invasion US air support (though four US pilots were killed in Cuba during the invasion) because of his opposition to overt intervention. Kennedy also canceled several sorties of bombings (only two took place) on the grounded Cuban Airforce, which might have crippled the Cuban Airforce and given air superiority to the invaders. [[U.S. Marines]] were not sent in.
:oh, uh, duh again. Yes :-) - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 08:14, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==Air London meetup action==
 
Aviation is commonly considered the deciding factor during the Bay of Pigs Invasion. The first airplane of the Cuban Armed forces was obtained in 1913; Cuban pilots, such as Francisco Terry Sánchez and Santiago Campuzano fought combat missions as early as WW I [http://www.nocastro.com/documents/aviacion/aviacion1.htm]. The 1931 Gibara landing against Machado was defeated in great part by Cuban Aviation [http://www.nocastro.com/documents/aviacion/aviacion2.htm]. However, by the end of January 1959 most Cuban pilots and support technicians from the Batista era were in jail [http://www.cidh.oas.org/annualrep/80.81sp/Cuba4677.htm] or in exile.
It was nice meeting you and the others last night. Do let me know when the next meetup with Jimbo is scheduled, or at least let me know where I should check for the announcement. (I'm afraid Wednesday isn't good for me, as I'm going to [[The New Statesman#Return|The New Statesman]] stage show in the afternoon and have a meeting at night.) You could also inform [[User:Red Deathy]], as he's another Londoner who might be interested in coming.
 
During the Bay of Pigs invasion, the first Cuban exile attack with B-26 left Cuban forces with "two [[B-26]]s, two [[Sea Fury|Sea Furies]], and two [[T-33]]As at San Antonio de los Baños Airbase, and only one Sea Fury at the [[Antonio Maceo Airport]]" and two of the attacking bombers were damaged [http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/waf/americas/cuba/Cuba-af-history.htm] April 17 Cuban exile pilots and copilots/navigators: Matias Farias, Eddy Gonzalez, Osvaldo Piedra, Jose Fernandez, Raul Vianello, Jose, A. Crespo, Lorenzo Perez Lorenzo, Crispin Garcia, and Juan Mata Gonzalez are killed. April 19 US aviators Riley Shamburger, Wade Gray, Thomas W. Ray and Leo Baker, replacing exhausted Cuban exile fliers, die in action.
By the way, it turns out I was right in my suspicion that we knew each other (at least in passing) from dealing with [[WP:JARLAXLE|JarlaxleArtemis]]—you arbitrated the [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/JarlaxleArtemis 2|second RfAr case I initiated]], and later posted your own report about his activities at [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/IncidentArchive84#JarlaxleArtemis: WP:AN.2FBJAODN]]. —[[User:Psychonaut|Psychonaut]] 13:20, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 
Cuban pilots Alvaro Galo and Willy Figueroa were jailed for cowardice, for not flying B-26; Captain Evans was accused of poisoning crews and also jailed.
:I mentioned it on wikien-l and wikimediauk-l. I'll probably mention it there again and drop you a note. Not sure where else one would announce one ... UK notice board perhaps - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 13:35, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 
Cuban Air Force pilots included Carlos Ulloa Rauz who was Nicaraguan; Jaques Lagas who flew a B-26 and survived is from Chile' Alfredo Noa died in battle in a plane piloted by Luis A. Silva Tablada also killed. Rafael del Pino. de Varens died in a B-26 accident in Camaguey. Laga lists dead Castro fliers as: Noa, Silva, Ulloa, Martin Torres, Reinaldo Gonzalez Calainada, and Orestes Acosta. On page 81 Lagas mentions Enrique Carrera Rola and Gustavo Borzac.
::I was expecting them to be announced on [[Wikipedia:Meetup/London]] or [[Wikipedia talk:Meetup/London]], since not every Wikipedian subscribes to the mailing list. —[[User:Psychonaut|Psychonaut]] 13:44, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 
On page 82 Lagas mentions 16 exile planes in first attack, presumable B-26 bombers. Kraus mentions eight B-26 piloted by Cuban exiles [http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/waf/americas/cuba/Cuba-af-history.htm]. Lagas mentions Cuban pilot Alberto Fernandez. Juan Suarez Plaza Ernesto Carrera is mentioned as flying a Seafury, and another Nicaraguan; Seafuries were also flown by Cuban pilots including Douglas Rood and Sanchez de Mola. Lagas states he was the only B-26 pilot left on the 19th of April. By April 21 ten of twelve exile B-26B had been destroyed [http://www.aeroflight.co.uk/waf/americas/cuba/Cuba-af-history.htm]. Eight Cuban pilots survived, only one from the B-26.
:::Indeed, and I'll be sure to note this one there as it'll be the "proper" one (i.e., probably a lot like last night with added Jimbo) - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 13:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==Land action==
:::By the way, I love the links on your userpage to upset users describing you. You're clearly doing something right - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 13:55, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
 
In the beginning the [[militia]] on the beach surrendered, and the invaders moved to control the [[causeway]]s. There the fighting became intense, and Cuban forces casualities were very high, both as a result of fire power from the invading ground forces and the [[strafing]] [[B-26]]. However, once their air-support was eliminated and after expending all ammunition the invaders were forced back to the beach (summarized from Lynch, Grayston L. 2000, and others in bibliography below). The land action was very bloody. Carlos Franqui wrote:<ref>Data sources include: de Paz-Sánchez, 2001; Lynch, 2000 D; Johnson, 1964; Franqui, 1984; Vivés, 1984. Complete citations in Bibliography section.</ref>
===London meet is TUESDAY 9th, not Wednesday 10th!===
 
{{Quotation| “We lost a lot of men. This frontal attack of men against machines (the enemy tanks) had nothing to do with guerrilla war; in fact it was a Russian tactic, probably the idea of the two Soviet generals, both of Spanish origin (they fought for the Republic in the Spanish Civil War and fled to the Soviet Union to later fight in World War II. One of them was a veteran, a fox (sic) named Ciutah. He (Ciutah) was sent by the Red Army and the Party as an advisor and was the father of the new Cuban army. He was the only person who could have taken charge of the Girón campaign. The other Hispano-Russian general was an expert in antiguerrilla war who ran the Escambray cleanup. But the real factor in our favor at Girón was the militias: Almejeira’s column embarked on a suicide mission, they were massacred but they reached the beach.”}}
'''Update:''' Jimbo [http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikimediauk-l/2007-January/000751.html got his days of the week confused]. This is now happening '''TUESDAY 9th''', same place. You may care to [[Wikipedia:Meetup/London#Informal_socials|sign up again or not]] - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 10:42, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==Casualties==
:Thanks for the update David. Unfortunately I was not able to attend yesterday as I was stuck teaching a bunch of Fortran programmers how to deal with XML... Hope you (all) had fun. [[User:Andreww|Andreww]] 18:37, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
By the time fighting ended on [[April 21]], 68 exiles were dead and the rest were captured. Estimates of Cuban forces killed vary with the source, but were generally far higher.
 
The 1,209 captured exiles were quickly put on trial. A few were executed and the rest sentenced to thirty years in prison for [[treason]]. After 20 months of negotiation with the United States, Cuba released the exiles in exchange for $53 million in food and medicine.
::That sounds like something for the next update of the Geneva Convention - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 21:49, 10 January 2007 (UTC)
 
It is generally assumed by some that during the Bay of Pigs Invasion Cuba's losses were high. Triay (2001 p. 110) mentions 4,000 casualties; Lynch (p. 148) 50X or about 5,000. Other sources indicate over 2,200 casualties. Unofficial reports list that seven Cuban army infantry battalions suffered significant losses during the fighting.
==Able and Baker on deletion review==
An editor has asked for a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review#{{{2|Able and Baker}}}|deletion review]] of [[:Able and Baker]]. Since you closed the deletion discussion for (or speedy-deleted) this article, you might want to participate in the deletion review. [[User:Naconkantari|<font color="red">Nacon</font><font color="gray">'''kantari'''</font>]] 17:00, 5 January 2007 (UTC)
 
In one air attack alone, Cuban forces suffered an estimated 1,800 casualties when a mixture of army troops, militia, and civilians were caught on an open causeway riding in civilian buses towards the battle scene in which several buses were hit by [[napalm]].<ref>http://www.serendipity.li/cia/bay-of-pigs.htm</ref><ref>http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/report/1984/EJR.htm</ref><ref>http://www.latinamericanstudies.org/articles/bayofpigs.htm</ref>
==West Orange==
I wanted you to be aware that I changed your #REDIRECT for [[West Orange]] from a redirect to [[West Orange, New Jersey]] to a disambiguation page due to the fact that there are other Wikipedia articles which use the name West Orange. Thank you. [[User:68.162.16.52|68.162.16.52]] 01:34, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 
The government initially reported their army losses as 87 dead with many more wounded. The number of those killed in action in Cuba's army during the battle eventually ran to 140, and then finally to 161. Thus in the most accepted calculations, a total of around 2,000 (perhaps as many as 5,000, see above) Cuban militia fighting for the Republic of Cuba may have been killed, wounded or missing in action.
:That's why it's a wiki, and this is a perfect example of why anon editing is a good thing :-) - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 09:58, 6 January 2007 (UTC)
 
The total casualties for the brigade were 104 members killed, and a few hundred more were wounded. Of those killed, ten died trying to escape Cuba in a boat (Celia), nine asphyxiated in a sealed truck on the way to Havana,<ref>http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/15933592.htm</ref> five were executed after the invasion, five were executed after being captured infiltrating Cuba, five died in training at their base and two died in a Cuban prison camp.
::and I've re-established the redirect now to [[West Orange (disambiguation)]]. I feel it's a better place to have the list. I hope you and 68.162.16.52 don't mind. [[User:Orel Puppington|Orel Puppington]] 05:38, 8 January 2007 (UTC)
 
In 1979 the body of Alabama National Guard Captain {Pilot} Thomas Willard Ray who was executed after capture was returned
== KDE is not ferret-compatible ==
to his family from Cuba; the CIA eventually ("in the late 90's") admitted to his links to the agency and awarded him their highest award the [[Intelligence Star]].<ref>Thomas, Eric 2007 (accessed 2-22-07) Local Man Forever Tied To Cuban Leader Father Frozen, Displayed By Fidel Castro KGO ABC7/KGO-TV/DT. ABC San Francisco, Oakland, San Jose http://abclocal.go.com/kgo/story?section=assignment_7&id=5056129</ref>
 
==Release of most captive prisoners==
I found the KDE bug we were talking about earlier: [http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=108312 Bug 108312]. I could be misremembering, but I think the original bug summary was "KDE is not ferret-compatible", and then some administrator changed it to something more mundane. Regardless, you will observe the helpful [http://bugs.kde.org/attachment.cgi?id=11622&action=view screenshot demonstrating the bug] and the fact that the bug still has a rather large number of votes. —[[User:Psychonaut|Psychonaut]] 01:49, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
In May 1961 Castro proposed an exchange of the surviving members of the assault for five hundred bulldozers. The trade soon rose to $28 million [[United States dollars]].<ref name="thousand"/> Negotiations were non-productive until after the [[Cuban missile crisis]]. On December 21, 1962 Castro and James B. Donovan, a U.S. lawyer signed an agreement to exchange the 1,113 prisoners for $53 million U.S. dollars in food and medicine, the money being raised by private donations.<ref>http://onwar.com/aced/chrono/c1900s/yr60/fcuba1961.htm</ref> On December 29, 1962 Kennedy met with the returning brigade at [[Palm Beach]], [[Florida]].<ref name="thousand"/>
 
==Aftermath, reactions and re-evaluations==
== Lembit Opik photo ==
[[Image:JFK.jpg|thumb|right|250px|[[Robert F. Kennedy]]'s Statement on Cuba and Neutrality Laws, April 20, 1961]]
The failed Bay of Pigs invasion severely embarrassed the Kennedy administration, and made Castro wary of future US intervention in Cuba. As a result of the failure, [[Director of Central Intelligence|CIA director]] [[Allen Dulles]], [[Deputy Director of Central Intelligence|deputy CIA director]] [[Charles Cabell]], and Deputy Director of Operations [[Richard Mervin Bissell Jr.|Richard Bissell]] were all forced to resign. All three were held responsible for the planning of the operation at the CIA. Responsibility of the Kennedy Administration and the US State Department for modifications of the plans were not apparent until later.
 
The Kennedy administration continued covert operations against Castro, later launching [[the Cuban Project]] to "help Cuba overthrow the Communist regime". Tensions would again peak in the [[Cuban Missile Crisis]] of 1962.
Hi, do you have a suitably licensed photo of Lembit from his brother's wake that you could add to his article? --[[User:J2thawiki|J2thawiki]] 12:00, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 
The CIA wrote a detailed internal report that laid blame for the failure squarely on internal incompetence. A number of grave errors by the CIA and other American analysts contributed to the debacle:
:I have photos, but I'd want to check it with him first, and also he is quite likely to have spare professional-quality photos he may be willing to make available under a free-content license. I'll email him at his office asking for the second option, as the photo will be waaay better :-) - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 16:01, 13 January 2007 (UTC)
 
*The administration believed that the troops could retreat to the mountains to lead a guerrilla war if they lost in open battle. The mountains were too far to reach on foot, and the troops were deployed in swamp land, where they were easily surrounded.
*They believed that the involvement of the US in the incident could be denied.
*They believed that Cubans would be grateful to be liberated from Fidel Castro and would quickly join the battle. This support failed to materialize; many hundreds of thousands of others were arrested, and some executed, prior to the landings. (see also Priestland 2003; Lynch, 2000).
 
The CIA's near certainty that the Cuban people would rise up and join them was based on the agency's extremely weak presence on the ground in Cuba. Castro's counterintelligence, trained by Soviet Bloc specialists including [[Enrique Lister]],<ref name="SPlister.htm"/> had infiltrated most resistance groups. Because of this, almost all the information that came from exiles and defectors was "contaminated." CIA operative [[E. Howard Hunt]] had interviewed Cubans in Havana prior to the invasion; in a future interview with [[CNN]], he said, "...all I could find was a lot of enthusiasm for Fidel Castro."<ref>http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/cold.war/episodes/18/interviews/hunt/</ref> [[Grayston Lynch]] among others, also points to Castro's rounding up of hundreds of thousands of anti-Castro and potentially anti-Castro Cubans across the island prior and during the invasion (e.g. Priestland, 2003) to destroying any chances for a general uprising against the Castro regime. Thus the million voices that had cried "Cuba si, comunismo NO!" on November 28 1959,[http://aguadadepasajeros.bravepages.com/cubahistoria/congreso_catolico_cuba_1959.htm] were gone or silent.
You are the 4th match on google for your name now.
 
Many military leaders almost certainly expected the invasion to fail but thought that Kennedy would send in [[United States Marine Corps|Marines]] to save the exiles. Kennedy, however, did not want a full scale war and abandoned the exiles.
== Commons and reuse of GPL/LGPL contents ==
 
An [[April 29]] [[2000]] ''[[Washington Post]]'' article, "Soviets Knew Date of Cuba Attack", reported that the CIA had information indicating that the [[Soviet Union]] knew the invasion was going to take place and did not inform Kennedy. [[Radio Moscow]] actually broadcast an English-language newscast on [[April 13]], [[1961]] predicting the invasion "in a plot hatched by the CIA" using paid "criminals" within a week. The invasion took place four days later. According to British minister [[David Ormsby-Gore]], British intelligence estimates, which had been made available to the CIA, indicated that the Cuban people were predominantly behind Castro and that there was no likelihood of mass defections or insurrections following the invasion.<ref name="thousand"/> More recent analysis suggest that, probably because of the Castro government's almost complete blackout of actions outside of Havana, the sources such as those used in the Ormsby-Gore intelligence estimate were not aware of the following related material: On April 14, 1961, the guerrillas of Agapito Rivera fought Cuban government forces near Las Cruces, Montembo, Las Villas, several government forces were killed and others wounded.<ref>Corzo, 2003 p. 83</ref> On April 16, Merardo and Jose Leon plus 14 others staged armed rising at Las Delicias Estate in Las Villas, only four survived<ref>Corzo, 2003 p. 85</ref> Leonel Martinez and 12 others took to the country side (ibid). On the 17th of April 1961 Osvaldo Ramírez then chief of the rural resistance to Castro (see [[War Against the Bandits]]) was captured in Aromas de Velázquez and immediately executed. [http://www.nuevoaccion.com/] The ruthlessness with which this resistance was suppressed is well described in Franqui.<ref>Franqui 1984, pp. 111-115 </ref> On April 3, 1961, a bomb attack on militia barracks in Bayamo killed four militia and eight more are wounded; on April 6, the Hershey Sugar factory in Matanzas is destroyed by sabotage; on April 18, Directorio guerrilla Marcelino Magaňaz died in action in Sierra Maestra.<ref>Corzo, 2003 p. 79-89</ref> On April 19 at least seven Cubans plus two US citizens Angus K. McNair and Howard F. Anderson are executed in Pinar del Rio Province.<ref>Corzo, 2003 p. 90</ref>. However, the general Cuban population was not well informed, except for CIA funded Radio Swan [http://www.firmaspress.com/viaje-al-corazon-de-cuba.pdf] [[Pirate radio in Central America and Caribbean Sea]], since May of 1960 almost all means of public communication were in the government’s hands.<ref>. NYT May 26, 1960 p. 5; [http://www.cidh.oas.org/countryrep/Cuba83eng/chap.5.htm]</ref>
Hello David,
 
The invasion is often criticized as making Castro even more popular, adding nationalistic sentiments to the support for his economic policies. Following the initial B-26 bombings, he declared the revolution "[[Marxism-Leninism|Marxist-Leninist]]". After the invasion, he pursued closer relations with the Soviet Union, partly for protection, which helped pave the way for the [[Cuban Missile Crisis]] a year and a half later.
I have read [http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/foundation-l/2007-January/026835.html your message] and written my answer at [[:Commons:Commons:Village_pump#Reuse_of_GPL.2FLGPL_contents]]. [[User:Theo F|Teofilo]] [[:fr:Discussion Utilisateur:Teofilo-Folengo|<small>talk</small>]] 15:33, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
 
There are still yearly nation-wide drills in Cuba during the 'Dia de la Defensa' (defense day) to prepare the entire population for an invasion.
== Cheryl Cole ==
 
An appendix to the Enrique Ros book pp. 287-298 gives the names of Bay of Pigs veterans who became officers in the US Army in Vietnam, these names include 6 Colonels, 19 Lt Colonels, 9 Majors, and 29 Captains. As of March 2007, the Communist Party is now the only political party in Cuba, and about 50% of the Brigade have passed on<ref>. Iuspa-Abbott. Paola, 2007 (accessed 3-27-07) Palm Beach County Bay of Pigs veterans remember invasion of Cuba. South Florida Sun-Sentinel Posted March 26 2007 [http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/cuba/sfl-pbrigademar26,0,6683790.story?coll=sfla-news-cuba]</ref>
I removed some revisions from the history of [[Cheryl Cole]] that you said on its talk page that you wouldn't. Someone has been sending around the link to the old, vandalised version, to news outlets as if it were the current version of the article. I have personally answered at least 5 different OTRS emails from people pointing out that (oldid) URL as vandalised, even though it was reverted pretty quickly, and quite a few days ago. So I figured it's easier to just remove the specific revision they keep referring to, than to have the (admittedly stupid) media of the world assuming it's vandalism that WMF condones and won't remove. - [[User:Mark|Mark]] 02:33, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==Notes==
:Fair enough! - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 10:21, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
<div class="references-small">
<references/>
</div>
 
==Marti PellowBibliography==
*Anderson, Jon L. 1998 Che Guevara: A Revolutionary Life. Grove/Atlantic ISBN 0-8021-3558-7
*Corzo, Pedro 2003 Cuba Cronología de la lucha contra el totalitarismo. Ediciones Memorias, Miami. ISBN 1890829242
*Franqui, Carlos 1984 (foreword by G. Cabrera Infante and translated by Alfred MacAdam from Spanish 1981 version) Family portrait with Fidel. 1985 edition Random House First Vintage Books, New York. ISBN 0394726200 pp. 111-128
*Lynch, Grayston L. 2000 Decision for Disaster: Betrayal at the Bay of Pigs. Potomac Books Dulles Virginia ISBN 1-57488-237-6
*Hunt, E. Howard 1973 Give us this day. Arlington House, New Rochelle, N.Y. ISBN-10 0870002287 ISBN-13: 978-0870002281
*Johnson, Haynes 1964 The Bay of Pigs: The Leaders' Story of Brigade 2506. W. W. Norton & Co Inc. New York. 1974 edition ISBN 0-393-04263-4
*Lagas, Jacques 1964 Memorias de un capitán rebelde. Editorial del Pácifico. Santiago, Chile.
*Lazo, Mario 1968, 1970 Dagger in the heart: American policy failures in Cuba. Twin Circle. New York. I968 edition Library of Congress number 6831632, 1970 edition, ASIN B0007DPNJS
*Grayston L. Lynch (see Lynch, Grayston L.)
*de Paz-Sánchez, Manuel 2001 Zona de Guerra, España y la revolución Cubana (1960-1962), Taller de Historia, Tenerife Gran Canaria ISBN 8479263644
*Priestland, Jane (editor) 2003 British Archives on Cuba: Cuba under Castro 1959-1962. Archival Publications International Limited, 2003, London ISBN 1-903008-20-4
*[[Jean Edward Smith]], "Bay of Pigs: The Unanswered Questions," ''The Nation'', (Apr. 13, 1964), p. 360-363.
*Somoza-Debayle, Anastasio and Jack Cox 1980 Nicaragua Betrayed Western Islands Publishers, pp. 169-180 ISBN 088279235
*Ros, Enrique 1994 (1998) Giron la verdadera historia. Ediciones Universales (Colección Cuba y sus jueces) third edition Miami ISBN 0-89729-738-5
*Thomas, Hugh 1998 Cuba or The Pursuit of Freedom. Da Capo Press, New York Updated Ed. ISBN 0-306-80827-7
*Triay, Victor 2001 Andres Bay of Pigs. University Press of Florida, Gainesville ISBN 0-8130-2090-5
*Welch, David A and James G Blight (editors) 1998 Intelligence and the Cuban Missile Crisis. Frank Cass Publishers, London and Portland Oregon ISBN 0-7146-4883-3 ISBN 0-7146-4435-8
*Vivés, Juan (Pseudonym, of a former veteran and Castro Intelligence Official; Translated to Spanish from 1981 Les Maîtres de Cuba. Opera Mundi, Paris by Zoraida Valcarcel) 1982 Los Amos de Cuba. EMCÉ Editores, Buenos Aires. ISBN 9500400758
*Wyden, Peter 1979 Bay of Pigs Simon. and Schuster New York ISBN 0-671-24006-40
 
==See also==
I noticed the news item in the Wiki news. Oddly enough, someone recently inserted info to say that Paul McCartney had died in his entry also. Thought you should know.[[User:LuciferMorgan|LuciferMorgan]] 02:53, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
{{portalpar|Cuba|Flag of Cuba.svg}}
*[[Cuba-United States relations]]
*[[Guantánamo Bay (Cuba)]]
*[[Swan Islands, Honduras|Swan Islands]]
*''[[Red Zone Cuba]]'' ([[1966]])
 
==External links==
== #wikipedia-en-admins ==
*[http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0417.html#article NY Times headline, April 18, 1961, ''Anti-Castro Units Land in Cuba; Report Fighting at Beachhead; Rusk Says U.S. Won't Intervene'']
*[http://www.parascope.com/articles/1296/bayofpigs.htm Detail Information on the Bay of Pigs Invasion] &mdash; Includes maps of the Invasion and Documents.
*[http://www.historyofcuba.com/history/baypigs/pigs.htm History of Cuba] &mdash; Bay of Pigs Invasion.
*[http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/bayofpigs/chron.html National Security Archive chronology]
*[http://www.urrib2000.narod.ru/ArticGiron1-e.html The Sea Fury aircraft at Bay of Pigs]
*[http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1E1-BayPigsI.html Reference on Bay of Pigs Invasion at Encylopedia.com]
*[http://www.highbeam.com/doc/1G1-150695778.html?refid=hbw_rd Bay of Pigs betrayal the betrayal of the Cuban people by the CIA, State Department, and staff members of the New York Times ranks as one of America's darkest foreign-policy moments]
{{Cuba-United States relations}}
{{Cold War}}
 
<!-- by invading forces -->
Will you set me up on the channel as well? I won't be there every hour of every day (IRC is disabled at work), but I'll be there often enough once I am invited. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkblue">日本穣</font>]]<sup>[[Help:Japanese|?]] · <small>[[User talk:Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">Talk</font>]] <font color="darkblue">to</font> [[WP:JA|Nihon]][[WP:MOS-JA|<font color="darkgreen">joe</font>]]</small></sup> 02:12, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
:Looks like Interiot has taken care of it, so no worries. ···[[User:Nihonjoe|<font color="darkblue">日本穣</font>]]<sup>[[Help:Japanese|?]] · <small>[[User talk:Nihonjoe|<font color="blue">Talk</font>]] <font color="darkblue">to</font> [[WP:JA|Nihon]][[WP:MOS-JA|<font color="darkgreen">joe</font>]]</small></sup> 02:21, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
 
[[Category:1961]]
==Mcginnly's block==
[[Category:Battles involving the United States]]
[[Category:Battles involving Cuba]]
[[Category:CIA operations]]
[[Category:Cuban-American relations]]
[[Category:Cuban Revolution]]
[[Category:History of the United States (1945–1964)]]
[[Category:Invasions]]
[[Category:John F. Kennedy]]
[[Category:Fidel Castro]]
 
[[ca:Invasió de Bahía de Cochinos]]
Please see [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Mcginnly&oldid=103119807 this]; can you explain there how Mcginnly's sockpuppetry was "abusive"? Thank you. -- [[User:Hoary|Hoary]] 11:17, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
[[da:Invasionen i Svinebugten]]
 
[[de:Invasion in der Schweinebucht]]
:Um, dude. Setting up three editors and making a fake content dispute between them? Wikipedia is not an RPG - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 11:51, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
[[es:Invasión de Bahía de Cochinos]]
 
[[fr:Débarquement de la Baie des Cochons]]
::Some people [[meta:Wikipedia is an MMORPG|beg to differ]]... [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] 14:17, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
[[id:Invasi Teluk Babi]]
 
[[he:הפלישה למפרץ החזירים]]
:::You have mail. --[[User:Mcginnly|Mcginnly]] | [[User talk:Mcginnly|Natter]] 14:36, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
[[nl:Invasie in de Varkensbaai]]
 
[[ja:ピッグス湾事件]]
== Don't I know you from somewhere... ==
[[ru:Операция в Заливе Свиней]]
There's a guy on Uncyc with exactly the username as you! How coincidental. I guess David Gerard is a popular name. Anyway, down to biznass, I was wondering if you could restore the Valencia Grapes article to my userspace so that I could put it on Uncyc. If you don't want to that's cool too, but I hope you also don't want to ever see your precious cat and/or dog again either (you do have a cat or a dog right?). Ta. --[[User:Anywan|Anywan]] 14:42, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
[[sr:Инвазија у Заливу свиња]]
 
[[fi:Sikojenlahden maihinnousu]]
== Help needed with posting to wikitech-l ==
[[tr:Domuzlar Körfezi Çıkartması]]
I have a serious case of gremlins - tried several ways of posting to that list for a week and ''nothing'' works. Sigh. I see you are one of the contributors to that mailing list: could I ask you to repost my letter? It can be copy&pasted easily from [[User:Piotrus/Sandbox#letter]].--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|&nbsp;Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&nbsp;]]|[[User_talk:Piotrus|<font style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;">&nbsp;talk&nbsp;</font>]]</span></sub> 18:29, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
[[zh:猪湾事件]]
:Thank you!--<sub><span style="border:1px solid #228B22;padding:1px;">[[User:Piotrus|&nbsp;Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus&nbsp;]]|[[User_talk:Piotrus|<font style="color:#7CFC00;background:#006400;">&nbsp;talk&nbsp;</font>]]</span></sub> 18:55, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
 
==Random smiley==
{{User:Pedia-I/SmileyAward2}}
[[User:Jerry lavoie|Jerry lavoie]] 03:30, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
 
 
== Checkuser ==
 
Please explain how Kelly Martin (a non admim) is aware of the findings of your checkuser on me [http://nonbovine-ruminations.blogspot.com/2007/01/wikidrama-committee-is-about-to-rule.html] (''created multiple accounts, and possibly been subjected to impersonation'')I am happy for you to list here the "multiple socks" and the impersonation attempt. While I freely admit to having had a previous user name (no secret) and a humerous sock created for a joke -no sock has ever abused wikipedia policies. I want to know who else you have told about the findings and why? [[User:Giano II|Giano]] 07:23, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 
:Err, I don't think Kelly is talking about putative CheckUser ''results'' here, but rather reasons for doing the check in the first place:
:* "multiple accounts": Giano + Giano II
:* "possibly been subjected to impersonation": Giano II (who could, in theory, have been someone trying to impersonate you, rather than a new account)
:(Which is, I think, an entirely silly way of summarizing the situation; but it's not actually ''wrong'' in its factual aspects.) [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] 12:41, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
::That it explains it then - fine. Obviously a misunderstanding in my part. Apologies David for dobting your dicretion. [[User:Giano II|Giano]] 13:31, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 
:::Sorry, yes. It was after you posted those messages that looked to me like declaration of intent to trash the place and made me go "WHAT ON EARTH" and block you. Then Bishonen and I had a long talk and she got across to me that you were 0% likely to do any such thing, and I went to unblock you and someone else had already. I ran the check (and said on the thread in ANI that I had, I think), but revealing results is quite another matter. I wrote the bit of policy on what to reveal from CheckUser: [[m:Checkuser#Wikimedia_privacy_policy]] - based on Foundation privacy policy. - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 15:54, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 
==[[Swinford]]==
Hi David, I removed the "sprot" tag from this article because it was edited by a user from an IP address and is not listed at [[WP:PP]]. Can you let me know if what I did was the right thing to do in a situation like this? Thanks. [[User:Robotman1974|Robotman]][[User talk:Robotman1974|<sup>1974</sup>]] 20:19, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 
:Yeah, I put a semi-block on it that expired after a week, so taking the tag off is good, thank you! - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]]
 
::Ok, thanks. [[User:Robotman1974|Robotman]][[User talk:Robotman1974|<sup>1974</sup>]] 21:42, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
 
== ''Signpost'' and OTRS ==
 
I'd be happy to work with you on a "these articles are crap, people are bitching" kind of thing, but I want to make sure that we don't get into the area of naming specific articles (which, obviously, can be attacked by those with malicious intent). Let me know what your ideal concept of such a feature would be, and perhaps we can work something out. It might also be a good way of getting more admins to pull OTRS duty; while I have OTRS login myself, I could certainly use the occasional reminder to do more OTRS work :) [[User:Ral315|Ral315]] ([[User talk:Ral315|talk]]) 02:37, 2 February 2007 (UTC)
 
:[[user:Shimgray]] does a lot of OTRS work, he'd be a good person to write a summary of noteworthy stuff. With the eternal "cannonfodder are always needed" on the end of course - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 19:22, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 
== [[m:OTRS|OTRS]] ==
 
I noticed your post on [[WP:AN]] about needing more volunteers for OTRS. I'd be willing to take a 90 day tour if you're interested. Thanks, [[User:Alphachimp|<span style="color:MidnightBlue">'''alphachimp'''</span>]] 17:43, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 
:That page, [[m:OTRS]], is where the volunteers line up! Yes please! See next answer as well - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 19:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 
I'd be curious for some information as to the type of work to be done, the amount of time one might wind up needing to put into this, and whether a fairly casual non-admin like myself could help out at all. (I hit the Help Desk regularly already, but lately there have been no questions needing answers when I drop in.) Cheers. [[User:Tony Fox|Tony Fox]] <small>[[User_talk:Tony Fox|(arf!)]]</small> 19:09, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 
:Basically, we expect a lot of companies saying "our article is terrible because of x" and the clueful editors would need to point them at the talk page and possibly make the reasonable edits. Microsoft is famous, but for a lot of minorly notable companies, notes on their article talk pages might languish unread for ages. Someone's gotta make the edits, not just file them for someone else to make. Sandra is planning an actual press release by next Tuesday or so, and I would expect a sudden FLOOD of attention - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 19:20, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 
::Hm, should've clicked along a little further and seen that bit about "should be an admin" on the next page. Thanks for the answer nonetheless - I guess I'll stick with the Help Desk for now. Cheers. [[User:Tony Fox|Tony Fox]] <small>[[User_talk:Tony Fox|(arf!)]]</small> 22:31, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 
== Spaink image ==
Hi, read your post on foundation-l about the Spaink image. The image used on nl:, [[nl:Image:Karin_Spaink.jpg]] has been released under GFDL and permission is secured in the nl-OTRS-queue. I'm not familiar with the way OTRS works exactly, so question to you: is it possible to upload the image to commons and link to the Dutch OTRS-permission there, so it can be used as a replacement for the non-free image here, or does the permission have to be forwarded to the Commons-queue? Cheers, [[User:NielsF|Niels]]<small>|[[en:User talk:NielsF|en talk]]-[[:nl:Overleg gebruiker:NielsF|nl talk (faster response)]]|</small> 23:03, 8 February 2007 (UTC)
 
:Ah, good! Yes, it should be possible to upload it to Commons with a copy of and link to the permission. I have ''no idea'' about the proper way to note permissions on Commons, though ... - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 10:57, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
::It's there now: [[:Image:Karin_Spaink.jpg]]. Permission is noted using Commons' standard template, so that should be alright. [[User:NielsF|Niels]]<small>|[[en:User talk:NielsF|en talk]]-[[:nl:Overleg gebruiker:NielsF|nl talk (faster response)]]|</small> 19:28, 9 February 2007 (UTC)
 
== Uncyclopedalated. ==
 
[[Uncyclopedia:User:Bradaphraser/PLSJudge|You still have to judge for the PLS!!!]] --[[User:Brandt Luke Zorn|Brandt Luke Zorn]] 21:14, 10 February 2007 (UTC)
 
==Wikipedia fundraising==
In response to [http://lists.wikimedia.org/pipermail/wikien-l/2007-February/062885.html this] request for suggestions, may I suggest a running series of pictures of actual hardware we wish to buy with a price countdown from purchase price to "We bought it. Thank you for helping us buy [whatever]." I think people will enjoy feeling a sense of "I helped buy ''that''". Items purchased in this way should have a wikimedia web page with donors' names, and as much data about the item (updated occasionally so people can see how "their" hardware is doing) as can easily be added. Give people a concrete feeling of partnership. And give fundraising the specificity it needs not to get old and boring. [[User:4.250.138.70|4.250.138.70]] 15:54, 12 February 2007 (UTC) (User:WAS 4.250)
 
==FYI==
*FYI, new article, [[The Scandal of Scientology]], you may be more capable/knowledgeable in expanding it w/ more info/material/citations than I... [[User:Smeelgova|Smee]] 05:40, 13 February 2007 (UTC).
**Again, new article, [[Inside Scientology]]. Again, this is not my forte perse, so if you know of some more references/citations/secondary sources with some additional information, please feel free to add to it. Yours, [[User:Smeelgova|Smee]] 07:13, 14 February 2007 (UTC).
***I have tagged a whole bunch of articles directly related to the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Scientology|Wikiproject]], thus adding them as well to the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Scientology/Assessment|Assessment Page]]. So after all that tagging, it turns out the project now encompasses about 217 articles! Pretty neat. Oh, and check out new article created: [[A Very Merry Unauthorized Children's Scientology Pageant]]. Yours, [[User:Smeelgova|Smee]] 03:15, 24 February 2007 (UTC).
 
== Durin is really doing the figures thing at the Bureaucrats Noticeboard ==
 
Durin is doing an incredible job at [[WP:BN#Redesigning adminship]], explaining all the problems, in response to Michael Snow.
 
He really has gone into great detail analysing RFA there.
 
Perhaps you'd like to spread the word! :-)
 
--[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] 00:19, 16 February 2007 (UTC)
 
== You're going to Siberia, USA! ==
 
Or at least the article I've just written about it... another puncturing of CoS myths, I'm afraid! See [[Alaska Mental Health Enabling Act]]. -- [[User:ChrisO|ChrisO]] 23:35, 19 February 2007 (UTC)
 
==Brick 'O common sense==
[[Image:Aerogelbrick.jpg|right|300px]]
 
For writing the [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Pedophiles&diff=109823593&oldid=109823508 greatest edit summary ever.], I hereby award you the rarest and most sought-after of all wiki-awards, the brick 'O common sense. [[User:Raul654|Raul654]] 16:08, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 
:Did I do something wrong? [[User:El C|El_C]] 18:12, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 
::Just feeding the issue at all. This one's really really really just best left in a box and not exposed to feeding via atmospheric idiocy. Everything in it is arguably covered by present policy and practice, and having a page to thrash out carefully-defined black-and-white boundaries of stupid is probably not a useful or helpful idea to writing an encyclopedia. Despite appearances, Wikipedia is not MySpace. And so forth. If you really seriously disagreee with this statement, well ... the talk page is still there and I have no doubt discussion will continue. Perhaps I'm wrong and there is in fact an elegant and simple rule that follows obviously from the core policies; if so, that'll be a place it can emerge from - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 18:26, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
 
:::I'm uncertain how the above relates to myself. Does it? More generally, I feel it is questionable for the project to allow pedophiles to identify themsleves as such and that this could prove to be a public relations disaster. But if the Wiki Establishment has opted to perpetuate the practice, I won't bang my head on a brick (of common or otherwise sense) wall. [[User:El C|El_C]] 18:39, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
::::The arbitration decision was that we want the project to be open to people of different beliefs, and when editing articles, for those people to come together to agree on a consensus version. At the same time, we don't want people s' self identifications to bring the project into disrepute. And if it sounds like these two goals are mutually contradictory - yes, we are well aware. Which is why we (the committee) are going to take pre-emptive measures to stamp out any effort to stir the pot, as we have done here. Or, to use an old metaphor - it is best to let sleeping dogs lie.
::::So to answer your question directly - no, this is nothing personally directed at you. It's just that we are making a concerted effort to prevent another huge blowout. [[User:Raul654|Raul654]] 19:02, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::Thanks, I appreciate the explanation. Do you intend to take any measures about the self-identification? Let me be blunt: there are powerful commercial and otherwise forces hostile to the project which may exploit any indecision on that front to cause us very bad publicity. We are in agreement on the need to prevent another blowout within the Wikipedia, but my fear is (which perhaps you could address for me) that this could come at the risk of a 'blowout' in the mainstream media. [[User:El C|El_C]] 19:14, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
::::::That's not an easy question to answer, and I'm not Solomon - I'll give it my best shot though. I think, perhaps, it would be best if we judge people by the edits they make, and not their self identification. To this end, a 'don't ask-don't tell' policy might be best. [[User:Raul654|Raul654]] 20:08, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::::Fair enough; but let me be more blunt with respect to the ''-don't tell'' bit: does the committee intends to prohibit this self-identification? Are you considering concrete steps at this time? [[User:El C|El_C]] 20:23, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
::::::::We're not discussing it at the moment because we *just* found out about this last night (I noticed it and raised the alarm on our mailing list). The consensus was to shoot that thing in short order. Beyond that, I/we/they are not really aware of an ongoing problem. If someone is still editing as a self-identified pedophile, that would seem to me to be a violation of our ruling that people should not bring the project into disrepute. If you want to press the issue, you could file a request for clarification on the issue. [[User:Raul654|Raul654]] 22:10, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
:::::::::I am very pleased we see eye to eye on this. I found David's comment a bit difficult to parse (I, however, would like to remind him, or at least state for the record, that I was never involved in an edit/[[Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Pedophilia_userbox_wheel_war#El_C|wheel]] war even remotely related to this set of issues, ever). I am a bit pressed for time at the moment, but I will try to author a request for clarification soon (which, incidentally, would have been my first choice, before adding it to existing policy, and I certainly would not have been in favour of the aforementioned WP:PEDO-specific policy proposal &mdash; I explain the reasons for my participation in that effort with my response to Kim bellow, and [[User_talk:El_C#WP:PEDOPHILES|here]]). Thanks again for articulating the Committee's position (as well as your own) so clearly. They are fortunate to have you as a member. [[User:El C|El_C]] 02:59, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
Darn, the page has been deleted. Not really fair, now we have a secret brick of common sense! --[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] 22:55, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
:The edit the brick refers to was ''15:14, 21 February 2007 . . David Gerard (Talk | contribs | block) (Protected Wikipedia:Pedophiles: um, no. The pedophile wheel war is not meant to be an annual derby. [edit=sysop:move=sysop])'' [[User:Raul654|Raul654]] 22:57, 21 February 2007 (UTC)
:: <g r i n> I second the brick of common sense. --[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] 23:31, 21 February 2007 (UTC) <small>''Hmm, now I wonder if having a separate usertype who can still read deleted revisions would be worth the while. (I'd like to encourage some of the older admins to hand in the bit, so as to stress the "no big deal" concept.) ''</small>
:::Kim, basically, there was a section that began with: "It is acceptable to identify as a pedophile on one's userpage..." &mdash; which I replaced with: "It is not acceptable to identify as a pedophile on one's userpage. The very act of identifying as a pedophile is [[WP:NOT|disruptive]]." I am pleased to see that the Committee shares my view (I presumed they did to begin with; I did not author the policy and found it far from an ideal approach, but it served to get my point across through a more comprehensible format than WP:AN). [[User:El C|El_C]] 02:59, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
:::: Actually, I feel tempted to just say that people should know for themselves whether or not they self-identify as pedophiles.... in the same way that cubans are totally free to display a "I hate castro" userbox, germans are free to show an "I support the neo-nazi movement" userbox, israelis are free to display a "all power to hamas" userbox, etc.
 
:::: Or am I being too much of a darwinist here? ;-) --[[User:Kim Bruning|Kim Bruning]] 03:40, 22 February 2007 (UTC) <small>''ps. Bishonen was saying nice things about you today, and I did see your edits as well! :-)''</small>
 
:::::I long for a world where there is no longer a reason for such hate, userboxen and beyond (no, it is not intrinsic to 'human nature'!), and whereas editors such as Raul & Bishoen (she always says nice things about me, some even true!) support the [[WP:FARC]], I support the [[FARC]] &mdash; how's that for (liberal-democratic) disrepute? Of course, this goes beyond the scope of the discussion here, but, to be pedantic: not "in the same way." This, since pedophilia is ''universally'' outlawed by all nation-states (while the conditions faced by girls in many underdeveloped countries result in them entering into wedlock at very early age, even those countries, at least ''de jure'', all follow some sort of legal doctrine which prohibits it). [[User:El C|El_C]] 06:53, 22 February 2007 (UTC)
 
== Embarassing ==
 
David, do you find it embarassing that you're in a Digg article attacking you for your corrupt behaviors? That kinda stinks, if you know what I mean. <small> — [[Special:Contributions/68.37.134.182|68.37.134.182]] ([[User talk:68.37.134.182|talk]]) 23:34, 23 February 2007 (UTC).</small> - aka Rory
 
:I heard about it when someone on IRC called Parker's page "a comedy goldmine". My IP is static and easily tracked down; file the post under "this is the shit I put up with" - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 00:20, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 
::Is it true, though? Or, better said, what's true IN there? Is it just complete lies, or are there some grains of truth? We've heard SOME things about WikiAbuse before... >_> <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/68.37.134.182|68.37.134.182]] ([[User talk:68.37.134.182|talk]]) 00:42, 24 February 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
 
:::Parker Peters appears to be the performance artist commonly known as Enviroknot. I have no intention of going through his concentrated stupidity looking for possibly true sentences - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 00:52, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 
::::Well, it is an interesting read. I see your cronies even as I speak.
 
:::::I seem to still get people dumb enough to email me stuff for WikiTruth thinking I have any link with it whatsoever. Haven't had an RFC at all yet, let alone a certified one. But I'm sure actual evidence will show up with the invective one day in the far, far future - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 00:59, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 
:::::: Oh forget about it. Who are we kidding? You're a perfect admin. [[User:69.137.223.153|69.137.223.153]] 09:15, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 
I read the article, and it's about time you got called to the mat for your worthless proselytizing. Get a different hobby and take your self-important ego elsewhere. Wikipedia does not need you, and you're doing more harm than good. [[User:207.67.84.171|207.67.84.171]] 16:57, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 
:David, I've blocked the above editor for three hours for general nastiness as well as a suspicion that it's a blocked editor anyway. Any comment from you on this would be welcome in the AN/I thread [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/Incidents#IP_sock.28.3F.29_proxy.28.3F.29_block_for_review here]. Cheers, [[User:TenOfAllTrades|TenOfAllTrades]]([[User_talk:TenOfAllTrades|talk]]) 18:01, 24 February 2007 (UTC)
 
::With all due respect, this is what is wrong with Wikipedia. I don't know if the article is real or not. But do you have any proof that this user is a blocked editor? This story got up on DIGG, remember. Millions of people saw this piece. Chances are, this is a completely anonymous user who has no relationship to any of this. Your blocking him, rather than trying to argue your position (as David did when I asked him above) just shows you as an abusive administrator, rather than a rational one.
 
::Everybody does stupid things. I've vandalized several pages as part of movements online (a few of which I agreed with, a few of which I started), though I've also made several useful edits as well. The people who reverted me were wise enough to realize that I wasn't a nasty terrorist, just a mild prankster. And to ban for a comment on a talk page is ridiculous. Something's happened to the once-jolly Wikipedia, and not for the better. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/68.37.134.182|68.37.134.182]] ([[User talk:68.37.134.182|talk]]) 16:19, 25 February 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
 
== ''Times'' article ==
 
I've been told that today's issue of ''The Times'' has an article about the recent Wikipedia meetup with Jimbo. The ferret gets a mention. :) —[[User:Psychonaut|Psychonaut]] 13:47, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
 
== Essjay ==
 
I find it hysterical that you are clamoring for the due process that you've denied to so many other people who have dared to cross you, I.E. Parker Peters. How many of those few piss-poor "I agree" posts beneath you were your sockpuppets? [[User:Kade|Kade]] 05:57, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 
:Thanks, Parker! Or reasonable equivalent. I see your talk page demonstrates your current superlative abilities at working with others - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 14:08, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 
:Ah, I see you're a different attention-seeking pissant entirely. My mistake - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 23:39, 3 March 2007 (UTC)
 
::I see you're really into making Wikipedia an enjoyable collaborative environment other than a place where you simply bully people and get all smug for knowing the difference between 'your' and 'you're.' What kind of furniture do you have in your ivory tower? [[User:67.88.208.65|67.88.208.65]] 16:32, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 
==RFC/Essjay==
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3ARequests_for_comment%2FEssjay&diff=112450454&oldid=112450255] - please don't be silly. If you want to delete this you may want to talk to Ral315, who moved the discussion to an RFC in the first place. [[User:Catchpole|Catchpole]] 00:37, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 
:You don't show a clear understanding of why uncertified RFCs are to be ''deleted'' - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 16:22, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 
== Parody article re: Essjay/Jimbo ==
 
... Was very funny. Don't let the drama-queens get ya down :) -- [[User:Ned Scott|Ned Scott]] 15:48, 4 March 2007 (UTC)
 
== Deletion of [[User:Essjay/RFC]] ==
 
David,
 
I realize from many of your strong and somewhat emotional comments during the whole sordid affair surrounding Essjay that you are probably acting as much if not more from a personal connection to Essjay as you are from an impartial point of view. The reason I argued strongly against the deletion of this article is because it serves as the best record of this dispute and the efforts of the contributors here to deal with the situation. Deleting this page leaves only the other fractured, uglier discussions—such as [[User talk:Essjay]]—as the record for anyone or any journalists coming here in the wake of the news coverage. Especially since the [[New York Times]] [http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/05/technology/05wikipedia.html?ex=1330750800&en=3bfde7644e8fbc5c&ei=5124&partner=permalink&exprod=permalink article], which gave favorable coverage to Wikipedia based on the ''community's efforts'' to address this issue, I think it is for the benefit of the project to leave this record in place.
 
By deleting this record of the discussion and the struggle of the community to come to terms with the deception of one of our best members, you have done the entire project a great disservice. It is a rather weak justification in the face of the good that the orderly discussion at this page did to hang the deletion on the reason that it is uncertified RfC. Not only did the page not even begin life as an RfC, but it could have been certified as a procedural issue without problem if this was simply a matter of dotting i's and crossing t's. If ever there was a time to [[WP:IAR|ignore all rules]], then this was one of those moments—this article absolutely should not have been deleted on a technicality.
 
I am respectfully asking you to step aside from your personal connection in this case and for the greater good of the project, undelete this important historical record so that everyone, both inside and outside the project, can see how we work and understand that this project has the resiliancy to face and overcome failings of even our most respected members.
 
—[[User:Doug Bell|Doug&nbsp;Bell]]&nbsp;<sup>[[User talk:Doug Bell|talk]]</sup> 15:43, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
::* I am strongly in favour of quietening this mess down, but deleting the RFC will only anger people more - archive it - whatever - but deletion is unethical and will lead to charges of all manner of unsavoury things. [[User:Giano II|Giano]] 15:54, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
[edit conflict]
:I'd endorse this, it seems odd that only administrators should have access to the discussion now, established non-admins also need to see the debate however unpleasant and painful it may have been. --[[User:Mcginnly|Mcginnly]] | [[User talk:Mcginnly|Natter]] 15:55, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 
:So we now have the Essjay RFC listed on here [Wikipedia:Requests_for_comment/User_conduct_disputes_archive] yet no one can look at it. Astounding [[User:Munta|Munta]] 16:05, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 
::*::Only admins can look at it now [[User:Giano II|Giano]] 16:10, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 
:My opinion is [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Deletion_of_Essjay_RFC|at ANI]]. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] 16:07, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 
::At [[Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_March_5#User:Essjay.2FRFC|DRV]]. [[User:Dragons flight|Dragons flight]] 16:35, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 
:Deletion? No. Archiving is done, but deleting is not done. Deleting is a paranoia multiplier and a drama escalator. This is especially the case since people who feel betrayed by Essjay's putting himself forward are going to suspect that he "quit" only to return or under a reincarnation. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 16:13, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 
::Of course deletion is done. The lynch mob made it into an "RFC" to give it colour of not being a lynch mob. Then it failed to meet even that standard. Out it goes. If you feel I'm that dead wrong, I invite you to bring an RFC or Arbcom case, i.e. put up or shut up - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 16:47, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
:::*I don't think it is wise to call many respected editors a lynch mob, all you are doing is irritating a potentially even more unplesant situation. [[User:Giano II|Giano]] 17:04, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 
::Although I probably won't go [[User:Dmcdevit|this far]], I agree - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 16:50, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
:::People have made reasoned arguments here and you respond with "put up and shut"? Being out of process isn't really an argument for deletion in this case IMHO, there's an overriding public interest defence. But there's really no need for such a combative style, we're here to talk about it, nobody wants anymore of a dust up than has already occured - I'm concerned that you and your actions are inflaming the situation. --[[User:Mcginnly|Mcginnly]] | [[User talk:Mcginnly|Natter]] 16:59, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 
In case it wasn't clear, there is discussion at [[Wikipedia:Deletion review/Log/2007 March 5#User:Essjay/RFC]]. If opinions keep piling up at the current rate, I will probably move it to a non-transcluded subpage later today. David, your opinion or explanation in the deletion review is welcome (yes, you can opine that your own action should be endorsed); the DRV instructions instruct nominators to request your participation. [[User:GRBerry|GRBerry]] 17:20, 5 March 2007 (UTC)
 
== imposter ==
 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shelby_Young
 
Imposter, claiming to be Shelby Young a very well known actreess who just happened to show up during a "credits " war. Credits don't appear on imdb.com and dealing with 2 radical fans here one of whom made a Shelby Young account, please come take a look.[[User:69.132.198.252|69.132.198.252]] 03:04, 7 March 2007 (UTC)
 
<small>First of all, I'm not an imposter, I took a photo for proof. But, if you're anything like user 69.132.198.252, then I'm sure you'll think it's photoshopped as well. Yes, I '''did''' re-voice Ellie Aarons in Bridge to Terabithia. No, I'm not with Savage agency and this user says (and says they called to see if I did re-voice). Besides, my agents wouldn't tell any random caller what I have/have not done.</small>
 
<small>Thank you, but I'm tired of this user telling me I'm not me. Even when I provide proof.</small>
 
[[User:Shelbyyoung|Shelby]] 03:04, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 
Shelby,
 
First you no own any page here on wikipedia as you claim. also am showing you list you roles on you page that do not appear on reputable sites like imdb.com. you say you on roles in movie but they not listed only show on "fan" sites. Wikipedia is verifiability by a reputable source. I do not consider you reputable source as anyone can look at the crc file for you picture and see it was open adobe photoshop and CREATED on march 5 2007. Is real you, it amazing you are show up on wikipedia.org during a small content dispute over one role that you now say you really do, but it not show anywhere. You make fun I am greek, I can overlook that is fine okay, but you not own wikipedia, you claim i am harass, not, I am just looking for verifiability. [[User:69.132.198.252|69.132.198.252]] 22:44, 8 March 2007 (UTC)
 
<small>1. Never said I own Wikipedia.
2. Darkhorizons.com and cinema.com are not fan websites. IMDB is not the only reputable site out there.
3. I don't have photoshop. Adobe Album Starter is what my uploaded photo's go onto, but they only things I'm able to edit on there are red eye and cropping.
4. I never made fun of you for being Greek. You can read previous posts and see that I never did.
5. I'm tired of people arguing over whether or not a voiced a character when I know I did. It's not like I'm THAT famous that I can't go on websites.
6. This is the end. I'm done arguing with you. Believe what you want. Yes, I do feel harassed when you just go out of your way to claim I'm not me, even when I provide proof. Do not respond to me. Do not mention me. Don't do anything more or I will just delete it. And stop changing my credit. It's getting annoying. I'm done talking with you.</small>
 
[[User:Shelbyyoung|Shelby]] 03:11, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 
== WM ==
 
I'm afraid I don't recall my password. I have just updated my WP email to the account I now use - please feel free to contact me that way. Kind regards, Jon, [[User:Jguk|jguk]] 10:52, 9 March 2007 (UTC)
 
== WikiProject updates ==
*I have done some updating to the [[WP:SCN]], added some new articles, added a "to do" list to the top of the project, and fixed up some categories and assessment stuff. I suggest we should all pick one article at a time, or at most two, to work on bringing up to Featured Article status. What do you think? [[User:Smeelgova|Smee]] 20:21, 9 March 2007 (UTC).
**Also, a Userbox for project members, {{tl|User Scientology project}} [[User:Smeelgova|Smee]] 20:48, 9 March 2007 (UTC).
 
== A recent edit war... ==
 
Hello,
 
In a recent Edit War over the article for the film Children of Men, the user [[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] accused me of being a meat-puppet of the user [[User:Arcayne|Arcayne]]. I was very angry about Viriditas continuously removing messages that I had left on his talk page. He classified these reverts as:
 
*"Remove suspected meatpuppet"
*"Remove trolling"
 
Could you please prove to to Viriditas that the IP address of me and Arcayne are in countries so far apart that it is impossible that I could have met him in person (and why would I want to become a meat-puppet if I hadn't met him?)
 
Thank-You for understanding,
 
[[User:Booksworm|Booksworm]] <small>[[User talk:Booksworm|Talk to me!]]</small> 14:28, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
 
 
Therefore I ask you to perform a CheckUser on both me and Arcayne to protect both our interests
<small>[[User:Booksworm|Booksworm]] <small>[[User talk:Booksworm|Talk to me!]]</small> 14:28, 11 March 2007 (UTC)</small>
 
== Re: "Upload an image" ad should go to Commons ==
 
Or at least to a page that points the Free Content images to commons. [[Wikipedia:Fromowner]] is a start ... it still points at en:wp. I'd hope this doesn't have to wait until Single User Logon - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 10:45, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 
: Yes, this did occur to me when I was deciding where to point it. Pointing it at [[commons:Special:Upload]] would result in a "not logged in" error page for anyone who isn't currently logged in there (which I'd imagine is most people). Single User Login should hopefully solve this. A limitation of the <tt><nowiki><imagemap></nowiki></tt> extension is that it can't use arbitrary external links, else I'd point it at http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Upload&uselang=fromowner directly. I'll change it to [[Wikipedia:Fromowner]] for now. Thanks for your input – [[User:Qxz|Qxz]] 16:42, 13 March 2007 (UTC)
 
== Official Pollicy!!!!1 ==
 
Hi David! Remember that Official Policy To Outlaw Sarcasm (so that only outlaws would be sarcastic)? In the wake of the Essjay drama, there's now a movement to make [[Wikipedia:Honesty]] Official Policy. Obviously this will result in every editor who has ever told a lie during their lives to leave Wikipedia, thus making everything bright and shiny again! Since of course we make policy by taking an essay and voting on it, I hope we can count on yours? [[User_talk:Radiant!|<b><font color="#DD0000">&gt;<font color="#FF6600">R<font color="#FF9900">a<font color="#FFCC00">d<font color="#FFEE00">i</font>a</font>n</font>t</font>&lt;</font></b>]] 09:10, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 
: *facepalm* It's a lovely essay, but ... yeah. Notes added - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 10:30, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 
== IRC ==
 
1173823035 21:57:15#wikipedia-en-admins: <DavidGerard> xyr: look over that link i just said
Looks good, but you don't need a cloak for that. What you do really need a cloak for is an invite exception, where we grant a 'permanent' invite by doing (as an operator) <tt>/mode #wikipedia-en-admins +I *!*@their/cloak/here</tt> - I suggest you add this. Thanks. &mdash;[[User:Xyrael|Xyrael]] / 17:28, 14 March 2007 (UTC)
 
== Re: Work in progress ==
 
Great essay! - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 16:39, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 
: Thanks! (And someone noticed it at last, yay!) – [[User:Qxz|Qxz]] 17:06, 15 March 2007 (UTC)
 
== FYI ==
*[[User:Justanother]] wants to delete/AFD the article you created that was later expanded upon, [[David Gaiman]]. Yours, [[User:Smee|Smee]] 06:07, 16 March 2007 (UTC).
 
 
== P-Basses ==
 
Thanks for the remark on the P-Bass photo. It's a photoshop trick, but I love the look and feel of P-Basses. I did the same thing on[[ Jazz Bass]]es, but it was deleted.--[[User:Magi Media|Magi Media]] 14:23, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
 
== Thank you ==
 
I appreciate your rapid assistance. <font face="Verdana">[[User:Durova|<span style="color:#009">Durova</span>]]</font><sup>''[[User talk:Durova|Charge!]]''</sup> 16:20, 22 March 2007 (UTC)
 
== Want to run something past you. ==
 
I want to create a MetaProject on meta to bring together all the various LGBT WikiProjects, promote inter-lingual collaboration, encourage the development of projects on other Wikipedias and Wikimedia projects, and help out projects where LGBT editors and articles seem to be getting a lot of stick and the perps are getting away with it. I have several people interested across four languages so far. I can't find any precedent for this on meta, and no advice was forthcoming on the Help forum, so I just wanted to ask if you knew of any guidelines I need to be aware of before I create it. I don't want to put effort in then get it sunk. [[User:Dev920|Dev920]] (Have a nice day!) 04:26, 25 March 2007 (UTC)
:Well, you've seen this message by now and didn't object, so I'll take that as a yes. [[User:Dev920|Dev920]] (Have a nice day!) 15:23, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 
:Er, sorry, yes. Sounds like a good idea to me :-) - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 21:59, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
 
== WikiProject ==
I wanted to let you know I was [[WP:BOLD|BOLD]] and changed the front-page of the [[WP:SCN]] project, it's sort of a simpler, friendlier more easier to use page, which will be easier for new members to see and understand. The older version was getting large and unwieldy. However, I archived it to the talk page archive so that it can still be utilized if need be. Let me know what you think, and of course thanks for putting the WikiProject together in the first place way back when... [[User:Smee|Smee]] 22:05, 28 March 2007 (UTC).
 
:Hey, whatever works :-) I just followed the generic template ... - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 22:57, 28 March 2007 (UTC)
::Oh, okay great, thanks. I was nervous there for a second. Hope you're doing well. Yours, [[User:Smee|Smee]] 22:58, 28 March 2007 (UTC).
 
== FAR of Humpback Whale ==
 
[[Humpback Whale]] has been nominated for a [[Wikipedia:Featured_article_review|featured article review]]. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to [[Wikipedia:What is a featured article?|featured quality]]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are [[Wikipedia:Featured_article_review|here]]. Reviewers' concerns are [[Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/{{#if:{{{2|}}}|{{{2}}}|Humpback Whale}}|here]].
[[User:King of Hearts|King of]] [[User:King of Hearts|<font color="red">&hearts;</font>]] [[User talk:King of Hearts|<font color="red">&diams;</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/King of Hearts|<font color="black">&clubs;</font>]] [[Special:Emailuser/King of Hearts|<font color="black">&spades;</font>]] 23:38, 30 March 2007 (UTC)
 
== Peter Dobbie ==
 
I suspected it was, but the fall-out from temporarily blocking him seemed far less than the potential shitstorm if it wasn't actually him. Most the pictures came from the BBC website so I can't see what FU rationale could have been made for them and I had to bite the bullet and ditch them; at the same, he'd make a good contact for trying to get the BBC Press Office to free-licence images for us - certainly his own if nothing else. I'd be grateful to hear of any additions that can be made to my explanation page (or slam them straight into it yerself, of course). Cheers! '''<font color="red">[[User:Redvers|RΞDVΞRS]]</font> ✖ <font color="thistle">[[User_talk:Redvers|ЯΞVΞЯSΞ]]</font>''' 15:27, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== Thanks ==
 
Thanks very much for helping to block Mike Church's sockpuppets.
 
Is there any particular reason you aren't reverting his contributions, too? I notice, for example, that the edit by {{vandal|Disgustion}} to [[User talk:Mike Church]], claiming that Mike was "selling admin accounts", remained after you blocked him. [[User:Rspeer|'''<span style="color: #63f;">r</span><span style="color: #555;">speer</span>''']] / [[User talk:Rspeer|<span style="color: #555;">ɹəəds</span><span style="color: #63f;">ɹ </span>]] 22:30, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:Oh, I was just blocking the socks en masse, not chasing all edits as well. (Someone asked "could you please checkuser this apparent miscreant?" and I looked at the result and went "flippin' 'eck, it's a nest of 'em!" I'll try to remember the mass reverting in future, time permitting - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 07:10, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 
::Ah! I didn't even know that checkuser could do that now. Do you mean to say you got ''all'' the Churchpuppets? (I find it hard to believe there were only 9 left, so there are probably more out there...)
::Anyway, if you look at the contributions you'll probably see why I want them reverted. If I do it myself, though, then I'm just inviting more abuse. Right now, he sees me as the source of all his problems on Wikipedia (instead of, you know, himself). So could you do me a favor and mass-revert those accounts' contributions? [[User:Rspeer|'''<span style="color: #63f;">r</span><span style="color: #555;">speer</span>''']] / [[User talk:Rspeer|<span style="color: #555;">ɹəəds</span><span style="color: #63f;">ɹ </span>]] 07:30, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:::I dunno that I got ''all'' of them, and of course he will probably come back repeatedly. But yes, certainly :-) - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 09:29, 3 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== GNU/Linux naming controversy FAR ==
[[GNU/Linux naming controversy]] has been nominated for a [[Wikipedia:Featured_article_review|featured article review]]. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. Please leave your comments and help us to return the article to [[Wikipedia:What is a featured article?|featured quality]]. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, articles are moved onto the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article from featured status. The instructions for the review process are [[Wikipedia:Featured_article_review|here]]. Reviewers' concerns are [[Wikipedia:Featured_article_review/{{#if:{{{2|}}}|{{{2}}}|GNU/Linux naming controversy}}|here]].
[[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy<font color="green">Georgia</font>]] ([[User talk:SandyGeorgia|Talk]]) 22:57, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 
==AfD nomination of [[Omegatrend]]==
I've nominated [[Omegatrend]], an article you created, for [[WP:AfD|deletion]]. We appreciate your contributions, but in this particular case I do not feel that [[Omegatrend]] satisfies Wikipedia's criteria for inclusion; I have explained why in the nomination space (see also "[[WP:NOT|What Wikipedia is not]]" and the [[WP:DP|Wikipedia deletion policy]]). Your opinions on the matter are welcome; please participate in the discussion by adding your comments at [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Omegatrend{{{order|}}}]] and please be sure to [[WP:SIG|sign your comments]] with four tildes (<nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>). You are free to edit the content of [[Omegatrend]] during the discussion but should not remove the articles for deletion template from the top of the article; such removal will not end the deletion discussion. Thank you.<!-- Template:AFDWarning --> [[User:RJASE1|RJASE1]] [[User talk:RJASE1| <sup>Talk</sup> ]] 23:44, 7 April 2007 (UTC)
 
==[[The Venetians (Australian Rock Band)]]==
 
*David,
 
The Venetians have been nominated for deletion. [[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/The Venetians (Australian Rock Band)]]. Given your expertise in the field, I would be grateful if you could have a look. [[User:Capitalistroadster|Capitalistroadster]] 02:27, 8 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== "jawdropping idiocy'' ==
 
Any chance you could edit [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration&diff=prev&oldid=120816085 this comment] to be a little less offensive? I humbly propose that at least a few of the opposers are highly respected users, and thought through careful statements. --[[User:AnonEMouse|AnonEMouse]] <sup>[[User_talk:AnonEMouse|(squeak)]]</sup> 17:09, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:"# Oppose - As a Johnny come lately member of the community I have many (as yet to be expressed) opinions about many wikipedia policies. I thank Danny for his overall contributions and participation and consider him a valuable member of the community. Since I am allowed to express a vote and an opinion, I choose to express opposition as a vote in opposition of many of the things Danny stands for as a representative of Wikipedia (which isn't personal - it's more structural). I'd rather see things go in a lot of different directions, and this is one humble mechanism for expressing myself about wikipedia. If that's not kosher for RfA's, lemme know."
 
:I mean, what the fuck. - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 18:20, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:: That particular opposition you site isn't very clearly phrased, but I think I understand what it is trying to say. I think it wants to say:
:# Danny's a good contributor
:# But as an admin, he would be a representative of Wikipedia
:# And a representative of Wikipedia shouldn't be someone who supports biting newbies, not reacting to constructive criticism, etc.
:: I can't guarantee that's what he's trying to say, but I am parsing it that way because if so, it is exactly what a lot of other people are trying to say.
::But let's say that I'm wrong. Let's say that this particular opposer woke up one morning and decided to oppose someone because their user name starts with D. That is still not a reason for calling the other 100+ oppose reasons "idiocy", is it? Some of those 100 reasons are better than others. --[[User:AnonEMouse|AnonEMouse]] <sup>[[User_talk:AnonEMouse|(squeak)]]</sup> 19:50, 9 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:::The essential problem is that you are confusing "assume good faith" with "assume competence" - your answer seems to address the commenter's sincerity. However, "assume good faith" is a nicer restatement of "don't assume malice when stupidity will suffice." I don't question most of the "oppose" votes' sincerity. I strongly question their judgement.
 
:::And really: if you can't look at the "oppose" list and see lots of deeply sincere deep stupidity, then me taking you through the comments one by one won't help.
 
:::See also the [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Danny/Bureaucrat chat|bureaucrats' eventual decision]], which ''does'' dissect the stupidity on a comment-by-comment basis. - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 09:28, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== Re: Atom feeds ==
 
Hi David! Yeah, ATOM is basically stuffed sometimes with PlanetPlanet, showing up usually with dupe posts. I've changed Hsiang-Tai's blog feed to specify RSS, and to be filtered by topic to just "Wikimedia Foundation", which seems to have stopped the dupe posts. I emailed the PlanetPlanet authors previously about some other tech problems with the software (e.g. weird error messages), and they recommended switching over to version 3 when it's released, which doesn't sound that far away (and they weren't very interested in fixing problems in the current version). The version it's running currently is a nightly of version 2, which (I think) includes the stuff from [http://lists.planetplanet.org/archives/devel/2005-May/000502.html this post]. So my current strategy is to push anything that plays up over to RSS, and hold out for version 3 to go gold. -- All the best, [[User:Nickj|Nickj]] [[User talk:Nickj|(t)]] 02:48, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== Hi ==
 
Hi David. I'd just like to note that you can behave quite stupidly at times, like speedy deleting Essjay's RfC a few weeks ago. I mean, think about it, what an idiot should somebody be to speedy an RfC started because of articles in major news agencies involving an Wikipedia editor lying about credentials, with the deletion motivated by a technicality, that it was not certified.
 
Your general comments can be quite dumb too. If you had better judgment you would know that offending others does nothing to convince people that you are right, they just make you look like a fucking moron who never learned the subtleties of intelligent conversation.
 
No offense taken I hope. I just like to speak my mind every now and then. You can reply below this post if you have comments. [[User:Oleg Alexandrov|Oleg Alexandrov]] ([[User talk:Oleg Alexandrov|talk]]) 15:40, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 
==My final comment on Danny's RfA...==
...is on the talk page. You've had your say, I've had mine, and the matter is closed as far as I'm concerned. [[User:Casey Abell|Casey Abell]] 15:58, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== Help with sockpupettry ==
 
Hi David, I need your help. [[User:Redvers|REDVERS]], one of the Administrators that is working with the [[Fellowship of Friends|Fellowship of Friends]] page, left me the following message:
 
:Hi, Mario. On the talk page of [[Talk:Fellowship of Friends|Fellowship of Friends]], I offered Wikipedia's best way for how to resolve these disputes (basically [[WP:RS]]); sadly, this was basically ignored and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Fellowship_of_Friends&diff=prev&oldid=119988915 very] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Fellowship_of_Friends&diff=119922919&oldid=119876613 obvious] sockpuppetry was resorted to instead, by people who held the high ground in the dispute.
 
I wrote to [[User:Redvers|REDVERS]] but he didn't reply to me. Do you know how can I find out who the sock pupeteers are based on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Fellowship_of_Friends&diff=prev&oldid=119988915 this] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Fellowship_of_Friends&diff=119922919&oldid=119876613 this]? Thanks a lot! [[User:Mario Fantoni|Mario Fantoni]] 18:11, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 
==Possible vandalism by [[User:COFS]]==
David, would you please take a look at this. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Free_Zone_%28Scientology%29&diff=prev&oldid=121800425]
I posted a couple links and COFS removes it claiming that it is commercial promotion. These are both freezone (independent scientology) groups.--[[User:Fahrenheit451|Fahrenheit451]] 23:03, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== Addressing the problem with RFA ==
 
I think you'll find [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Danny/Bureaucrat chat]] quite pleasing. Not that it means everything suddenly changes, but it's clear reasoned precedent for ignoring ''stupid and irrelevant'' opposes, however sincere they may be - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 14:03, 10 April 2007 (UTC)
:That is interesting. I have added it to [[Wikipedia talk:Requests for adminship/Reform]]. Feel free to comment there --<small> [[User:Cool Cat|Cat]]</small> <sup>[[User talk:Cool Cat|chi?]]</sup> 19:04, 12 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== Thanks for the comments on my RFA ==
 
Admittedly, [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Lankybugger|shooting for adminship]] may have been premature. However I wanted to thank you for asking questions of those who opposed my RFA, even if they did go unanswered. I especially agree with the comment about real-world commitments... When one has four birthdays within his immediate family in February, it does become a little difficult to find time to edit Wikipedia. Cheers, [[user:Lankybugger|Lankybugger]] ○ [[User_talk:Lankybugger|Yell]] ○ 03:25, 18 April 2007 (UTC)
 
==[[User:216.165.158.7]]==
Hi, David. I noticed you blocked 216.165.158.7, DreamGuy's IP, for one month as a sock of a "banned user", and for making "Continuing personal attacks using talk page as platform". What makes you think DreamGuy is banned? He's not. And this is merely his IP, it's not an abusive sock--not used, as far as I know, and as far as he asserts, for supporting Dreamguy, bypassing 3RR, or anything like that. Presumably you've clicked on DreamGuy's contribs and seen that the IP being blocked has meant that the DreamGuy account has also been blocked? I ask you to reconsider the length of the block. Also to undo the semiprotection of the IP's talkpage, as that is his only venue for communication. Do you really think he has been making personal attacks of a kind to make it necessary to prevent him from even requesting an unblock of an uninvolved admin? On his own page, that nobody needs to go to and feel disrupted by...? I also ask you to, at least, report this unusual block on ANI for review, and to post a block message on the user. From your own contribs list, it doesn't look like you've edited since taking these actions, so I hardly expect you to see my requests, but I hope you do, and that you consider them. If I don't hear from you, I'll post on ANI myself. Regards, [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 22:45, 20 April 2007 (UTC).
:It does appear that you imposed this block on the basis of an inadvertent factual error. Please reevaluate it and post your comments to the thread that Bishonen has started on ANI [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27 noticeboard/Incidents#Spontaneous block of DreamGuy by David Gerard.2C please_review|here]]. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] 03:26, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 
The block message on the talk page has been updated. Read the history for the continuing personal attacks. Bishonen, I hope you're not shielding someone given to vicious personal attacks yet again - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 09:05, 21 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== Erroneous RefBot block ==
 
Please remove your block of my [[User:RefBot]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User:RefBot (log)]. Your block is interfering with the process of having the tools reapproved, and serves no purpose as if I was trying to run the bot I could have used another name. There are two walls stopping RefBot past the speed bump of your block. Also, your stated reason for the block is still factually incorrect, as the ArbCom ruling does not apply to any specific name and RefBot was not created for evasion. RefBot was created following instructions to me in the bot approval process. ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 04:50, 21 April 2007 (UTC))
 
:Um, anyone could who's familiar with your reasons for wanting an unblock - are there no admins associated with the request? - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 20:54, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 
::Other admins are making up different incorrect reasons rather than evaluating your block. See [[User talk:RefBot]]. There is at least one unwritten rule about using {{tl|unblock}} multiple times and I don't know what other traps there are in seeking admin review. ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 03:50, 23 April 2007 (UTC))
 
:::See below - the entire bot approval process looks like it's about to be taken out and shot, and it appears well-deserved - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 07:05, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:::: Yes, I'll deal with whatever the bot approval process is after someone cleans up the [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Climate change dispute 2|ArbCom kangaroo court]]. But your block is in the way of both those processes because nobody wants to review it and it serves as an excuse to not do anything. I could create yet another name for the task, as the ArbCom referred to me under any name so gave no name restrictions, but then your block would serve as a reason to block that. ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 15:10, 23 April 2007 (UTC))
 
:::: No response. Did you get distracted by the bot bureaucratic mess? My request has nothing to do with that. ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 19:34, 25 April 2007 (UTC))
 
== Personal attacks ==
 
Please make your point without namecalling[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Bot_owners%27_noticeboard&diff=prev&oldid=124942756]. I suggest you read [[WP:NPA]] and [[WP:CIVILITY]]. As an admin you should already know this. <small>[[User:HighInBC|<sup>High</sup><sub>InBC</sub>]]<sup>(Need help? [[User_talk:HighInBC|Ask me]])</sup></small> 20:09, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:Excuse my terseness - when you argue with the devs whose job it is to run the servers whether they are qualified to judge whether a bot can go fast, I figured that was obviously ridiculous enough that it didn't need further embellishment. To correct it: You are ''acting like'' completely pompous idiots in this instance. You blocked it, he pointed out a dev okayed it as harmless, and rather than the obvious thing to do - "ok, no worries, let us know in advance next time" - you spend ''thousands of words'' defending the policy against the people who are actually ''responsible'' for the servers the policy is supposed to protect. It's spectacular, and evidence for the deletion of [[WP:BOWN]] and severe rationalisation of the attached policies - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 20:45, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 
Your point is fine the name calling is not. And putting "your are acting" or "in my opinion" or "it seems to me that you may" before an insult does not make it acceptable. From [[WP:NPA]] "Insulting or disparaging an editor is a personal attack regardless of the manner in which it is done."
 
Basically you should not be criticizing the contributor at all, just the contribution, ''no matter how correct your point may or may not be''. Also, I didn't block it, I did not spend a thousand words on anything, I am uninvolved in the dispute. <small>[[User:HighInBC|<sup>High</sup><sub>InBC</sub>]]<sup>(Need help? [[User_talk:HighInBC|Ask me]])</sup></small> 21:32, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 
Sigh. HE DID NOT SAY HE IS A DEVELOPER. OK? Got it now? And I'm still waiting for an apology after the personal attack. I'm a volunteer here too, just without the "leet checkuser" and IRC cartel membership, and I don't appreciate being abused for trying to help out.
 
One other thing. We've still not been told why it's ''our fault'' that Cyde was okayed to break the bot speed limit and ''nobody told us in advance''. We're not all on IRC, you know. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 00:30, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:When asking people to be civil, it is important to be civil yourself. <small>[[User:HighInBC|<sup>High</sup><sub>InBC</sub>]]<sup>(Need help? [[User_talk:HighInBC|Ask me]])</sup></small> 00:47, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
::Incivility is one thing, a personal attack is quite another. There also comes a point when incivility goes out of the window; that point comes when you're being unreasonably treated and (seemingly) nobody cares much about it. If you'd like to follow my contribs trail (not that I suggest you do), it's become quite clear that people are happy to scapegoat me for what was basically a failure of the IRC cartel to inform BAG of it's decisions.
::All that said, I value your opinion most highly, and if you think I overstepped the mark there I humbly apologise. Thank you for pointing it out. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 01:10, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:Peace. <small>[[User:HighInBC|<sup>High</sup><sub>InBC</sub>]]<sup>(Need help? [[User_talk:HighInBC|Ask me]])</sup></small> 01:12, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 
David, this[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Bot_owners%27_noticeboard&diff=124948204&oldid=124947248] is not one bit better, it is also a personal attack if you put a little conditional before it. Please stop commenting negatively towards the contributors, they are volunteers, and we have a policy to protect them from insulting comments. You are an admin, act like it. <small>[[User:HighInBC|<sup>High</sup><sub>InBC</sub>]]<sup>(Need help? [[User_talk:HighInBC|Ask me]])</sup></small> 01:24, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:Which is why I refactored it myself, as you'll note if you go forward a few diffs - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 07:12, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 
Umm, no, the post signed at 20:30, 22 April 2007, as it is now,
 
''Excuse me. You are acting like completely pompous idiots in this instance. You blocked it, he pointed out a dev okayed it as harmless, and rather than the obvious thing to do - "ok, no worries, let us know in advance next time" - you spend thousands of words defending the policy against the people who are actually responsible for the servers the policy is supposed to protect. It's spectacular, and evidence for the urgent need for severe rationalisation and ground-up rewrite of bot policies. Preferably by devs'''
 
Is '''still''' a personal attack. "You are acting like", "in my opinion", "it seems to me", these little phrases to not excuse you from the rule against insults. Please do not comment negatively to the contributors. <small>[[User:HighInBC|<sup>High</sup><sub>InBC</sub>]]<sup>(Need help? [[User_talk:HighInBC|Ask me]])</sup></small> 13:49, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:Thanks for your help. How would you have phrased it, making all the relevant points and not missing any? - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 14:14, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 
I would have stuck to the subject at hand, and not make any personal comment about the editors. Talk about bot, the block, the reasoning, provide information others may not have. The only part that I would not be able to communicate from your message is your low opinion of the other editors, which is not relevant to the discussion. <small>[[User:HighInBC|<sup>High</sup><sub>InBC</sub>]]<sup>(Need help? [[User_talk:HighInBC|Ask me]])</sup></small> 14:17, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== Wikipedia:Bot owners' noticeboard#Endorse block ==
 
Such a personal attack! <span style="font-size:95%">&mdash;[[User talk:Messedrocker|Signed]], your friendly neighborhood '''[[User:Messedrocker|MessedRocker]]'''.</span> 20:13, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:Yes, when I see that calibre of bureaucracy for its own sake I have to remember only to delineate the gross foolishness rather than merely point at it - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 20:49, 22 April 2007 (UTC)
:: In short, if you're damn sure you're better than them, act like it. <span style="font-size:95%">&mdash;[[User talk:Messedrocker|Signed]], your friendly neighborhood '''[[User:Messedrocker|MessedRocker]]'''.</span> 00:40, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== Re: "un-wiki" ==
 
Thanks for your response. I guess what I meant by "un-wiki" was the implication that just because developers have the ''power'', they have the ''authority''. I know that it is far from always being the case that the wiki is actually community-governed, but ignoring the core priniciple of concensus is what is "un-wiki". The community expectation is that developers should use their power to further the concensus of the community, shaped by the founding principles of the project. That is why people are willing to do volunteer work for this project (at least that's why I'm willing).
 
BTW, when you say "developers" I assume you mean developers with shell/root access, not just committers, since not all of the stuff that goes into SVN is equally competent (as evidenced by the fairly frequent reverts of code by people such as Brion and Tim Starling with better knowledge of the actual operational structure of Wikimedia's server environment). [[User talk:Mike Dillon|Mike Dillon]] 15:18, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== Capitalised gibberish ==
 
Picking someone at random (well, not really) from the thread on Kelly's page, I've been following the discourse about "capitalised gibberish" with some amusement. Do a search for "CRO" on Kelly's page, and you will see what I mean. That is a genuine example of jargon throwing a spanner in someone's mental processes. [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] 22:20, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
:Oh d*mn. Nae'blis has [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Kelly_Martin&diff=125266858&oldid=125265868 already pointed this out]. Forget I said anything. I'll go back to finding references for this annoying article I'm trying to save. [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] 22:22, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:[[O RLY?|WP:ORLY]]! - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 22:23, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
::[[Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/O RLY|YA RLY]]. :-) [[User:Carcharoth|Carcharoth]] 22:49, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== The Discussion. ==
 
I hope I didn't come across as uncivil to you on Kelly Martin's talk page. If I did, I apologize. [[User:Acalamari|Acalamari]] 23:21, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:Ehh don't worry :-) - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 23:25, 23 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== Apologies ==
I put [[:Category:Critics of Scientology]] on CfD, but I think I should've told you first as you created it. I did this mostly for consistency with the decision on [[Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2007 April 13#Category:Critics of Islam]].--[[User:T. Anthony|T. Anthony]] 04:20, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== Bizarre ==
 
What on earth is AvB's problem regarding the Gaimans? The discussion I'm having on [[Talk:Neil Gaiman]] beggars belief... -- [[User:ChrisO|ChrisO]] 22:39, 24 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:Nonsense. There is no "AvB's problem regarding the Gaimans". I took up some chores at the BLPNB some time ago. Unlike ChrisO I do not have a POV regarding Scientology and pick up cases as time permits. My understanding of the relevant policies is shaping up nicely. In most cases editors accept my intervention. ChrisO apparently finds my interpretation of WP:BLP too strict. Another editor found it too lenient. Both have cast aspersions on my understanding of policy and motivation. People are most welcome to discuss policy with me. But questioning my motivation? Behind my back? That's what ''I'' consider bizarre. [[User:Avb|AvB]]&nbsp;&divide;&nbsp;[[User_talk:Avb|<small>talk</small>]] 01:26, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
 
::What is bizarre is the degree to which you appear to be using unthinking adherence to your interpretation of policy ahead of anything resembling obvious good sense. [[Talk:David Gaiman]] is the only place I've seen anyone ''ever'' seriously claim they're not related - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 07:21, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:::We ended up with the bizarre situation of being able to say in the Neil Gaiman article that his father was David Gaiman, a South Coast businessman, his mother was Sheila Gaiman, a pharmacist, and the family moved to East Grinstead in 1965; but we couldn't say that this was the same person as [[David Gaiman]], a south coast businessman married to Sheila, a pharmacist, with a son called Neil, who moved to East Grinstead in 1965. I would defy anyone to find the logic in that situation. It's patently obvious that it's the same family. I was lucky enough (and it was a complete fluke) to find a newspaper article that stated the relationship explicitly, but even before then we had enough reliably-sourced evidence to make the connection. -- [[User:ChrisO|ChrisO]] 07:48, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:::*"unthinking adherence" - my arguments were not only based on my interpretation of policies, experience in applying them, or my own common sense. Common sense and policy arguments had also been advanced by other editors removing the same info. To the degree I've repeated the latter, you are criticizing them as much as you're criticizing me.
:::*"... is the only place ... related" (David) and "... It's patently obvious ..." (Chris) - straw men. I was not advancing the bizarre notion that they are not father and son.
:::*I still have my doubts about the wisdom of outing Neil to the rest of the world in Wikipedia based on a revelation in a local paper that linked him with Scientology. But as I wrote after ChrisO had found a source: I'm not reverting. The info is in the articles. I'm not disputing it. You've got what you wanted. You're convinced this will have no consequences. Flogging this dead horse serves no purpose whatsoever. [[User:Avb|AvB]]&nbsp;&divide;&nbsp;[[User_talk:Avb|<small>talk</small>]] 09:39, 25 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== Checkuser ==
 
Hi David. I see that you have checkuser privileges. Wonder if [[User:Like.liberation]] is anyone we know. Laff. Take care. --[[User:Justanother|Justanother]] 16:26, 26 April 2007 (UTC)
 
==In vain==
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Australian_Wikipedians%27_notice_board#Jimbo_on_.27.27Today.27.27 - as an ex-perthite, you have been cited by me as what the Australian project currently needs - having taken the liberty - thought I should tell you. Trust all is well - he have had Jimmy in Perth last tuesday. cheers [[User:SatuSuro|Satu]][[User talk:SatuSuro|Suro]] 02:36, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 
::Thank you for your comment there - it seems the eastern staters have been trying to set up a wiki media thing that should technically handle the thing - but it dosnt look like its happening much. cheers [[User:SatuSuro|Satu]][[User talk:SatuSuro|Suro]] 15:10, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 
::My apologies if I brought back memories of your home state - seeing you edit wittenoom - I do hope you never had rels/family who suffered from having lived there at all! [[User:SatuSuro|Satu]][[User talk:SatuSuro|Suro]] 16:06, 28 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== A descriptive header ==
 
{{User:Steel359/Today's featured policy}}
 
Inspired by [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AAdministrators%27_noticeboard%2FIncidents&diff=126112191&oldid=126111743 this] (your bit, not Duja's) &ndash; [[User:Steel359|Steel]] 15:13, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== Your comment on ANI ==
 
:''And enabling behaviour toward such trivial querulousness is a waste of everyone's time. Newyorkbrad, I'm looking at you."''
To the best of my recollection, my contributions to the discussion consisted of (1) letting Kelly Martin know that one of her edits was the subject of an ANI thread, which she thanked me for; (2) commenting that it was unhelpful to the discussion to bring up that an editor was on probation from a completely unrelated arbitration case from a year ago, which I think is true; and (3) advising Kelly that another user (a well-respected editor and administrator in good standing) had said he was thinking of taking a break from Wikipedia, as stated on his talkpage, because of the tone and content of some of her remarks, and urging that she tone it down a bit (and incidentially sending an e-mail to that user asking him to stay with the project, which hopefully will be helpful to the situation). Can I ask which of my comments you consider as "enabling behavior," or was it something else I've missed? [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] 17:28, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:Sorry, I thought you were talking about Crotalus. The user who was considering leaving was, judging by the deletion logs, the one who was threatening her on her talk page a few days ago - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 19:57, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== [[:Template:No GFDL]] ==
 
Excuse me, but what gives you the right to delete a template with NO discussion, especially one that was nominated for deletion and the consensus was KEEP.--[[User:CyberGhostface|CyberGhostface]] 22:11, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 
An editor has asked for a [[Wikipedia:Deletion review#{{{2|Template:User no gfdl}}}|deletion review]] of [[:Template:User no gfdl]]. Since you closed the deletion discussion for this article or speedy-deleted it, you might want to participate in the deletion review. [[User:CyberGhostface|CyberGhostface]] 22:18, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:It appears the deletion reason didn't go into the log. The reason was that it directly and blithely spits in the face of shiny new Foundation policy since the last TFD. I see the current TFD is going quite badly for it for this reason. If you want to advocate directly against the Wikimedia Foundation's actual legal mission statement, then Wikipedia is not a suitable place to use the resources of to this end - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 22:19, 27 April 2007 (UTC)
 
==RFAr Piotrus==
Hi, David. I have posted a question for you on the RFAR talk,[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_arbitration&diff=126684335&oldid=126670186] I hope you will reply. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 19:18, 28 April 2007 (UTC).
:I see. I won't bother you again then. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 19:39, 29 April 2007 (UTC).
 
== Fair use ==
 
That's fine and dandy that you're willing to remove ''all'' of the images form the Naruto articles, but might I ask why you're bypassing {{tl|orfud}} tagging? '''''~[[User:Snapper2|Snapper]][[User talk:Snapper2|T]][[Special:Contributions/Snapper2|o]]''''' 21:14, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
:While I do see a problem with some of the articles, you seem to be going a bit overboard with the removal of the images. If only two images were allowed per the fair use policy, I would say [[Jabba the Hutt]], a featured article, wouldn't have them. I would suggest bringing it up on the talk page of the main article, and asking the related users to take care of it. If in a week or so, it still seems that it's a violation, do whatever you need to do. [[User:TTN|Nemu]] 21:20, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 
::Sorry, I'll go the hack with more care in future - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 12:53, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== Kelly Martin RFC ==
 
Umm...shouldn't it still exist. If I read right, we have 48 hours. It hasn't been two days yet. --<small>TeckWiz is now</small> [[User:R|'''R''']] <sup>[[User_talk:R|Parlate]]</sup><small>[[Special:Contributions/R|Contribs]]<sub>[[Special:Emailuser/R|@]]</sub>(Let's go Yankees!)</small> 22:23, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:Oops, you may be right - I'll check - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 22:26, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:You are quite correct - I can't count. Undeleted - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 22:29, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
::On your ANI comment: so tried and failed isn't warning the user about incivilty and having her ignoring it and removed it? --<small>TeckWiz is now</small> [[User:R|'''R''']] <sup>[[User_talk:R|Parlate]]</sup><small>[[Special:Contributions/R|Contribs]]<sub>[[Special:Emailuser/R|@]]</sub>(Let's go Yankees!)</small> 22:37, 29 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== DSmart Block ==
 
Hi David, thank you very much for the extremely timely block of the dsmart disruptive account, [[Talk:Derek_Smart#Complaints_filed_with_Jimbo_Wales_.26_Wiki_Foundation]]. I also wanted to let you know that the block should also be logged here, [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Derek_Smart#Log_of_blocks_and_bans]], at least that is my understanding of the ArbCom ruling, [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_arbitration/Derek_Smart]] Regards, [[User:Bill Huffman|Bill Huffman]] 14:31, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:It has been taken care of by someone else. I had assumed that the blocker was supposed to do it. Sorry, I didn't take care of it myself. Thanks again, [[User:Bill Huffman|Bill Huffman]] 14:37, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== [[User talk:Dsmart-3000ad]] ==
 
This user who you blocked for legal threats has had an unblock request turned down. I notice that he's now asking again, this time stating "I hereby retract any/all perceived legal threats". However, he then adds that he will instead "take whatever action is deemed necessary by my attorneys and in conjunction with the Wiki Foundation". I've declined the request pending referral to you as the blocking admin. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 14:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
:Chiming in, I just reviewed the text Kingboyk refers to, and I think it's still squarely in 'legal threat' territory. He's advocating a lawsuit against an editor, and ''offering'' to work with Wikimedia foundation to do it. That's super duper. - [[User:Chairboy|C<small>HAIRBOY]]</small> ([[User_talk:Chairboy|☎]]) 14:54, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 
:Is that a retraction of all threats? Well, I'd suggest it's not really anything of the sort. Of course, whatever his legal chances or his status as an editor, if we're going to have [[Derek Smart]] as an article then we should make it the best article we can. To this end I've put a note on [[WP:BLPN]] asking for experienced living bio editors to go over it with a fine-toothed comb - David Gerard 17:16, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 
==[[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Piotrus]]==
Hullo David,
 
An Arbitration case in which you commented has been opened: [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Piotrus]]. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Piotrus/Evidence]]. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Piotrus/Workshop]]. (I figure you already knew this; just making sure).
 
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, [[User:Picaroon9288|Picaroon]] [[User talk:Picaroon9288|(Talk)]] 20:48, 30 April 2007 (UTC)
 
== My (Selket's) RfA ==
 
{| class="messagebox standard-talk" style="float:center;border-style:solid;border-color:#BACDDE;background-color:Ivory;border-width:2px;text-align:left;font-family: Trebuchet MS, sans-serif;padding:8px; -moz-border-radius-topleft: 1em; -moz-border-radius-bottomleft: 1em; -moz-border-radius-topright: 1em; -moz-border-radius-bottomright: 1em;" class="plainlinks"
|align="center"|[[Image:Admin mop.PNG|70px]]
|
Thank you, {{BASEPAGENAME}}, for your support on [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/Selket|my recent RfA]], which recently passed '''54/1/1'''. I hope I can live up to everyone's expectations. I will certainly take the constructive criticism I recieved to heart.
Please, if you have any comments or complaints about my actions as an administrator, leave a note on my talk page.
Thank you again·
--'''[[User:Selket|Selket]]''' <sup>[[User_talk:Selket|Talk]]</sup> 18:12, 1 May 2007 (UTC)
|}
 
== Fishman Affidavit ==
 
You said the Fishman documents are considered "wrong", but only ''one part'' of them is considered suspect, right? Aren't they considered ''mostly'' right, since the CoS objected to all parts of it but one? [[User:Wikipediatrix|wikipediatrix]] 14:16, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:Yeah, I meant specifically about [[OT VIII]], since [[Talk:OT VIII]] was the talk page I said that on :-) - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 14:27, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:: I know, I know, heh... but it made it sound as if it throws the ''entire'' Fishman Affidavit into doubt, which I don't think it does. [[User:Wikipediatrix|wikipediatrix]] 14:29, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:::I've clarified the wording in the article (at the expense of the sentence structure) - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 14:35, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 
==[[Search Engine Land]]==
 
David, if you have trouble with these chaps, let me know and I will do my best to deal with them. The blog posts you made over there yesterday were a bit inflammatory. That's no problem, but it may not be the most effective way to counteract SEO spam. We are dealing with a situation of ignorance, not malice. [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] (<sup>[[User_talk:Jehochman|talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Jehochman|contrib]]</sub>) 15:35, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:I'd question that in Seth Finkelstein's case, but anyway - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]]
 
:: I agree with you there! [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] (<sup>[[User_talk:Jehochman|talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Jehochman|contrib]]</sub>) 04:05, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 
::: Ahem! There is a [[False_dilemma|fallacy of the excluded middle]] in evidence. -- [[User:Seth Finkelstein|Seth Finkelstein]] 06:16, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:: David, do you think I did the wrong thing by giving an interview to Stephan? [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] (<sup>[[User_talk:Jehochman|talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Jehochman|contrib]]</sub>) 13:49, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:::Link? They asked if I'd do an email interview and I said "sure, why not", but haven't heard back - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 14:16, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
Back in January I gave an interview to Stephan. He recycled some of my quotations for [http://searchengineland.com/070503-065513.php this piece]. I wasn't too happy about how he spun things, but because I've met Stephan, I know he's a nice person. His confusion is sincere, so rather than slamming him, I pointed Durova to the article. [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] (<sup>[[User_talk:Jehochman|talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Jehochman|contrib]]</sub>) 14:35, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:Oh, that's who you are :-) I hope the readers take Durova's article on board - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 15:23, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
== checkuser ==
Hi there. I note you were involved in [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_checkuser/IP_check&oldid=127804566#Lewisskinner this checkuser]. I'm am not sure what policy is on checkuser, but I do feel it would have been nice if someone had told me about it.
All I am able to say on the matter is that I have no idea where those edits came from. I live in a shared house, as does my girlfriend {{user|Jen Kettle}}, though we do not live together. We also both use Orange, so I guess could have similar IPs. We both also leave our Wi-Fi open for our Neighbours, with whom we get on very well, and have often discussed wiki and the sometimes hilarious arguements I seem to get into, particularly with the user who requested the check. I do not know if those edits were from housemates, neighbours or someone else, but I know I did not make them, and I'm sure Jen didn't either. I enjoy editing wiki, and did not come here to be consistently dragged into daffed debates/arguements. [[User:lewisskinner|'''<font color="red">L.J.Skinner'''</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:lewisskinner|<font color="green">''wot''</font>]]|[[Special:Contributions/lewisskinner|<font color="blue">''I did''</font>]]</sup> 09:47, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:If that's the case, then, looking at the edit pattern, I find the confluence of interests and writing style remarkable and likely to break new ground in the study of coincidence. Or perhaps not - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 10:03, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 
::There is a [http://www.eufs.org.uk/discuss/YaBB.pl?num=1131964113/30 Jen Kettle] connected with the Film Unit in Sheffield. I was surprised at the wide range of IP addresses given - is it the case that LJS has logged on (as LJS) from all these IP addresses at some point? [[User:Pc1dmn|-- roundhouse]] 12:57, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:::Indeed there is a Jen Kettle in Sheffield, there doesn't seem to be any reason to doubt Lewis when he says this but as David has noted the pattern of edits is somewhat suspicious. Whilst this may be others who have been made aware of conflicts Lewis has found himself in, it does seem slightly unlikely that the edits would be made without Lewis knowing. For example, the prodding of a userpage doesn't seem like something someone with little knowledge of Wikipedia would do. I'd draw his attention to the [[Wikipedia:Sock_puppetry#Meatpuppets|Meatpuppets section]] of the sock puppetry policy which is certainly relevant. [[User:Adambro|Adambro]] 13:32, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:::Indeed, as confirmed in the RFCU. On balance, my considered opinion as an experienced checkuser remains to suggest to Lewis "come off it" and to point out that Wikipedia is incredibly tolerant, but we're not actually stupid - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 13:43, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 
::::(edit conflict). Agreed, but a sockpuppet and meatpuppet are not the same, so it is wrong to try and convinct me of the former, in addition to the suggestion that Jen is merely an extension of me (she'd have a right go at you about that! :) ). The wireless systems each of us have is set up as a network, with my (or my girlfriend's) PC set up as server/master, and all others connecting via it, so that it cannot be used without our knowing, and the master has to dial up to the router every time it is turned on. This would likely explain the many IPs alluded to by Pc1dmn, and also the timings of the attacks. I do not make a habit of making personal attacks on users (although heated debates have been known), and I bear no grudge against the user - indeed, on two occasions, I actually reverted the vandalism![http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3APigsonthewing&diff=126012024&oldid=126011773][http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User%3APigsonthewing&diff=126147402&oldid=126147233]
::::Incidentally, I am currently on a university computer, so I assume my IP will be different again. [[User:lewisskinner|'''<font color="red">L.J.Skinner'''</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:lewisskinner|<font color="green">''wot''</font>]]|[[Special:Contributions/lewisskinner|<font color="blue">''I did''</font>]]</sup> 13:49, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:::::I strongly suggest you lock down your wifi, then. Any WEP is provably crackable in two minutes or less; WPA is the only sensible option - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 20:35, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 
::::::OK, from tomorrow, I guess I'll have to close it. I don't want to, but I suppose it's the only way. I do not need this. [[User:lewisskinner|'''<font color="red">L.J.Skinner'''</font>]]<sup>[[User talk:lewisskinner|<font color="green">''wot''</font>]]|[[Special:Contributions/lewisskinner|<font color="blue">''I did''</font>]]</sup> 01:22, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 
FYI: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Deletion_review/Log/2007_May_4&curid=11033851&diff=128915756&oldid=128845933] [[User:Pigsonthewing|Andy Mabbett]] 12:35, 7 May 2007 (UTC)
 
==Certain admins==
David, it seems to me that some admins are pedantic and hypercritical. I post a clear notice for advice, and in return, receive petty, even irrelevant criticism. Should I post at all to AN/I? --[[User:Fahrenheit451|Fahrenheit451]] 20:07, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:Oh yes, you should. But living bios really ''are'' our biggest headache. Again, I advise you to ask JzG's advice - he's one of the best admins for dealing with troublesome living bio issues, and is utterly on the level and with the forces of good - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 20:31, 3 May 2007 (UTC)
 
== Regarding [[Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/Errabee]] ==
 
<blockquote># Support, probably not insane - David Gerard 17:38, 27 April 2007 (UTC)</blockquote>
... [http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Commons:Deletion_requests/Photos_by_Errabee] [http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ABastique%2Farchive6&diff=3344861&oldid=3337081] [http://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lupo&diff=prev&oldid=3362327]. --[[User:Gmaxwell|Gmaxwell]] 05:10, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:I did say ''probably''! And I stand by the usefulness of such a support - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 07:47, 4 May 2007 (UTC)
 
== Eureka ==
 
Eureka! http://www.current.tv/google/GC03104 . Pass it on. --[[User:Jeffrey O. Gustafson|Jeffrey O. Gustafson]] - ''[[User:Jeffrey O. Gustafson/Shazaam|Shazaam!]]'' - [[User_Talk:Jeffrey O. Gustafson|&lt;*&gt;]] 01:37, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 
== Illegal number ==
 
You wrote in a recent edit summary: "The phrase "illegal number" is all over the discussion in the big world, and we have an article to link to". Actually, we don't have an article to link to. The same user who made the deletion you were undoing, also changed [[Illegal number]] to a redirect back to [[AACS encryption key controversy]]. I don't want to revert him for fear of escalating the existing friction between him and myself, but thought you'd want to know. [[User:67.158.73.188|67.158.73.188]] 01:49, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:Argh! I've redirected it to [[Illegal prime]], which is actually a useful discussion of the concept - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 01:51, 5 May 2007 (UTC)
 
== Access to #wikipedia-en-admins ==
 
David, I would appreciate access to theis channel. Nick: jossi. Thanks, [[User:Jossi|≈ jossi ≈]] <small>[[User_talk:Jossi|(talk)]]</small> 18:46, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:No worries - do you have an IRC cloak set up? (e.g. Wikipedia/jossi) - if not, then email me with what your name shows up as when you do <tt>/whois jossi</tt> (e.g. I get <tt>(n=fun@wikimedia/DavidGerard): Not dead yet, but don't push it</tt> - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 18:51, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
::I am logged on now at #wikipedia-en and I show up as jossi, username: jossif. [[User:Jossi|≈ jossi ≈]] <small>[[User_talk:Jossi|(talk)]]</small> 19:10, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
::How do I set up a cloak? [[User:Jossi|≈ jossi ≈]] <small>[[User_talk:Jossi|(talk)]]</small> 19:14, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
::: http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/IRC_channel_cloaks - ask JamesF or Xyrael- or go to http://tools.wikimedia.de/~swhitton/cloaks - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 19:18, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
::::Thanks! [[User:Jossi|≈ jossi ≈]] <small>[[User_talk:Jossi|(talk)]]</small> 23:32, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
==Pro-wrestling vandalism==
Thanks for blocking all of the vandal reincarnations on the wrestling articles. [[User:Cabel Starcraft]] is another one of those one-shot accounts created on a open proxy that needs blocking. I also noticed that on the article [[Daniel Garcia Soto]], that the vandals were never reverted, so is there a list of these pages that I can check through to make sure he was reverted completely? — [[User talk:The Future|<font color="50C878">The Future</font>]] 19:15, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:I gotta go now, but basically all the edits by all the names I just blocked ... - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 19:18, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
::Ok, I'll get on it. — [[User talk:The Future|<font color="50C878">The Future</font>]] 19:20, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
::And.. finished reverting.. — [[User talk:The Future|<font color="50C878">The Future</font>]] 20:43, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
Why is [[User:Kingstonekids]] blocked as a [[User:JB196]] sock when it only has one edit and its not connected to wrestling? [[User:Secretlondon|Secretlondon]] 22:52, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:That would have been one of the open proxy one-off edits, as per the block reason in the next wave. - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 22:54, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
== 72.75.73.158's block ==
 
There's some part of the justification for 72.75.73.158's block that I don't understand. Did you do a CheckUser to see if 72.75.73.158 was a sockpuppet of an existing user? I've checked out that user's talk page, and I feel {{user|Geo Swan}} misled people in his AN/I complaint against 72.75.73.158. Geo Swan first went to target the user's anonymity on Wikipedia, and claimed that he was using it as a protective shield against repercussions for his action. 72.75.73.158 made two mistaken reports on articles that Geo Swan created, but he's made hundreds of accurate ones. Surely, making an occasional mistake on CSD tagging, and then justifying the reason for deletion in a civil manner can't be a blockable offense?
 
After 72.75.73.158 justified tagging the article for deletion, Geo Swan immediately went on a tangent and started to target the user's anonymity here on Wikipedia. 72.75.73.158 said he/she didn't want to discuss the matter, but Geo Swan kept pestering 72.75.73.158 on the issue. It seems that Geo Swan drew his own conclusions about 72.75.73.158, and misled people at AN/I by posing his interpretation of the IP's belief about anonymity. I feel that this was in retaliation for the deletion of the articles, and it doesn't seem fair that 72.75.73.158 was not allowed to participate in the discussion on his talk page, or at AN/I. If there is some sockpuppetry issue that I'm not aware of, then please let me know, because as of now, I'm still thinking this was not a totally reasonable block. Thanks, <font face="georgia"><span style="background:#E0FFFF;color:#007FFF">[[User:Nishkid64|Nishkid64]] ([[User talk:Nishkid64|talk]])</span></font> 22:56, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:The user has revealed themselves and officially doesn't care publicly: [[User talk:Dennette#Anonymous_WikiGnome_or_Sockpuppet.3F]]. Read that section carefully. I'm really not sure what to do in this case - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 23:02, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:And I agree Geo was taunting. If you can offer Dennette continuing friendly guidance, that'd be the best thing for all. I've unblocked the IP - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 23:09, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
== re:Block by error ==
 
Not a problem... Errors happen.
 
Try not to hurt the wall to much, your heart was in the right place :)
 
- [[User:J Greb|J Greb]] 23:00, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:'''MY SINCERE APOLOGIES TO AN ENTIRE TOWN IN CANADA.''' Evidently I need to drink my [http://www.cynical-c.com/?p=7357 kitten blood] when it's fresh - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 23:52, 6 May 2007 (UTC)
 
::How about RefBot? Or do I need to add kitten blood to its capabilities before getting a review? ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 00:25, 7 May 2007 (UTC))
 
==A Survival Guide to SEO & Wikipedia==
[http://searchengineland.com/070508-061206.php A Survival Guide to SEO & Wikipedia], Search Engine Land. Durova seems to be taking a break, so you might want to bring your LART. I've commented already. [[User:Jehochman|Jehochman]] (<sup>[[User_talk:Jehochman|talk]]</sup>/<sub>[[Special:Contributions/Jehochman|contrib]]</sub>) 13:37, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 
==Flaming death==
When is [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators&diff=next&oldid=129173113 this] scheduled to happen? I need to schedule being out of town, or something... [[User:KillerChihuahua|KillerChihuahua]]<sup>[[User talk:KillerChihuahua|?!?]]</sup> 14:50, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 
==[[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Henrygb]]==
Hello,
 
An Arbitration case involving you has been opened: [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Henrygb]]. Please add any evidence you may wish the arbitrators to consider to the evidence sub-page, [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Henrygb/Evidence]]. You may also contribute to the case on the workshop sub-page, [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Henrygb/Workshop]].
 
On behalf of the Arbitration Committee, [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] 14:53, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
:Well, per an arbitrator's request, the formal opening has been delayed until tomorrow, but absent a last-minute change in the voting, the pages will be waiting for you then. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] 19:18, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
::Re-opened. [[User:Newyorkbrad|Newyorkbrad]] 14:38, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 
== Socks of JB196 ==
 
Hi, the story so far is at the diffs [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AThe_Future&diff=129046497&oldid=128736172 here] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3ATerriersFan&diff=129205505&oldid=128806476 here]. Not only has [[User:Pharoahski]] taken over from where the socks left off but he is editing in the manner of an experinced editor not a newbie. I am inclined to block but would welcome your advice first. [[User:TerriersFan|TerriersFan]] 16:23, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 
== Thanks... ==
 
... for the personal attack! It's nice to be talked about in front of my face :\. [[User:Matthew|Matthew]] 19:04, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:I refer the honorable gentleman to [[Wikipedia talk:Non-free_content#Excess_use_of_screenshots]], where this issue was last hashed out ad nauseam. (e.g. ''"Because we are dealing with content that is non-free, we do not need a compelling reason to remove them; we need, per WP:NFCC#8 a compelling reason to include them."'') I also fear I must suggest to him that if he insists he's right and lots of experienced users say he's wrong, that he consider in passing that he might be wrong and stop looking for loopholes where there are none - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 19:06, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:Also, I expect an admin, of all editors, to have a much better understanding of ''why'' Wikimedia's free content policies - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 19:11, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 
::Point of information; he's not an administrator. He's had three RfAs [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/MatthewFenton][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/MatthewFenton_2][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Requests_for_adminship/MatthewFenton_3], all of which failed. --[[User:Durin|Durin]] 19:17, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:::I must have been thinking of someone else - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 19:22, 8 May 2007 (UTC)
 
==Shrubbery, English==
Can you take a quick look at [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Shrubbery&diff=129461271&oldid=129460912 this edit] in [[Shrubbery]]? It doesn't look like right to me, but it seems to be neither vandalism nor an accident. [[User:Rl|Rl]] 08:42, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:Wacky amusing punnery, strikes me as - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 09:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 
::Thank you. [[User:Rl|Rl]] 13:14, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 
==Need user and talk page protection==
 
Hello ... I would appreciate it if you would have a look at some of my sandbox pages, and if you would [[WP:SALT]] [[User:The Bipolar Anon-IP Gnome]] and [[User Talk:The Bipolar Anon-IP Gnome]] to prevent its actual use as a user name ... that way we can continue to talk about me as my IP address changes without having to refer to my true identity each time ... please see [[User talk:68.239.79.82/WikiGnome|Anonymous WikiGnome or Sockpuppet?]] ... I know that the archives will ''always'' contain my true name, but I'd also like to use it as the "example" of the bogosity of registration in some of the essays and examples that I would like to eventually submit to [[WP:NPP|New pages patrol]], like [[User_talk:68.239.79.82/afterrestore#What_to_do_when_a_speedy_delete_tag_is_removed|What to do when a speedy delete tag is removed]] ... Happy Editing! &mdash;{{User|68.239.79.82}} 21:29, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:Best way to salt a username is to register it yourself then forget the password - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 22:34, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 
::Uh, wouldn't that be considered "creating a sockpuppet?" That's exactly what I was trying to avoid! OTOH, if I never make any edits using the account, then it really can't be called a sock.
 
::But I have a greater concern which coincidently just manifested itself ... please see [[User talk:72.75.73.158#removing db-nouser tag]] ... without a protected User page, any anon could place a <code>{{tl|db-nouser}}</code> on the page, and with no edits since creation, and reasonable admin would probably just zap it.
 
::Well, ''on your advice'', I shall create a "fictitious" user account that I will never use for edits, nor shall I ever make any edits to the User or Talk pages, but I'm sure that Some Other Editor will place a <code>{{tl|Welcome}}</code> on it inside of a month, and then there will be activity on the Talk page. <''Sigh!''>
 
::If anyone accuses me of "[[WP:POINT|disrupting Wikipedia to make a point]]," then I'll just point them at this conversation. &mdash;[[User:68.239.79.82|68.239.79.82]] 08:05, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:::Follow-up ... OK, I created the account, and was thinking maybe Just One Edit ... what do you think of copying [[User talk:68.239.79.82/WikiGnome]] to that User Talk page as the sole entry, so that it can be referenced instead of my sandbox page?
 
:::I guess that the dates in the signatures would be bogus, but right now, those are bogus signatures anyway. (Been up for 36 hours ... think I'll crash now. :-) &mdash;[[User:68.239.79.82|68.239.79.82]] 08:36, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 
==[[User:Justanother]] stuff==
David, the identified user seems to be attacking me here:[[User_talk:Justanother#F451.2C_are_you_.22truth-challenged.22.3F]]. Any suggestions of what I should do about it?--[[User:Fahrenheit451|Fahrenheit451]] 22:21, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:Remain calm and loving in attitude, and if someone insists on digging a hole for themselves, you probably can't stop them. Think of every edit henceforth as arbitration evidence if it helps - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 22:32, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
::I believe that other users may have the same idea in mind: [[User:Orsini/Sandbox3]], [[User talk:Orsini/Sandbox3]]... [[User:Smee|Smee]] 22:43, 9 May 2007 (UTC).
 
I appreciate your mature view of wikipedia editing, David. So these events are a "Prelude to a Wake"?--[[User:Fahrenheit451|Fahrenheit451]] 22:51, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
 
:I'd say do well by doing good, and not being baited by an organisation with actual training courses in baiting people - [[User:David Gerard|David Gerard]] 22:56, 9 May 2007 (UTC)
::Too true, perhaps we had all forgotten for a moment, about their expertise in that arena... [[User:Smee|Smee]] 10:44, 10 May 2007 (UTC).
:::Yes, and if I were black I would be a good dancer too; but I am Irish so I will just have to get drunk. --[[User:Justanother|Justanother]] 03:56, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
 
==[[Wikipedia:Security]]==
I'm trying to make policy by documenting what happened, and what was decided to be the right thing in retrospect. Would you like to take a look at this and fix any glaring errors? --[[User talk:Tony Sidaway|Tony Sidaway]] 11:15, 10 May 2007 (UTC)
 
== Ski Resort Deletions ==
Thank you for striking your comment about me nominating articles "for the sake of it". That single comment has bothered me all day. I really feel I am trying to do what I think is best for wikipedia. I understand a couple of my nominations were done with haste and the "Keep" comments have reversed my opinion on several. [[User:C5mjohn|C5mjohn]] 18:19, 11 May 2007 (UTC)
:One more thing, you described me as "user page-less." I prefer not to have a user page describing me because I like to think people would judge you by your body of edits and actions rather then any self-described expertise or authority. '''question''': Is this a bad angle to take? Should I at least describe my hobbies or my life so as to gain credibility? I just find it difficult to believe that wikipedia has such a focus on "sources" and "verifiability" but, at the same time, allow all editors to make any claim of expertise or experience imaginable to gain credibility. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:C5mjohn|C5mjohn]] ([[User talk:C5mjohn|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/C5mjohn|contribs]]) 18:26, 11 May 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->