Bishonen

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Revision as of 05:21, 14 May 2007

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'''Bernard Marx''' is one of the main characters in the novel ''[[Brave New World]]'' by [[Aldous Huxley]]. Bernard is viewed as an outsider by his peers, and it is rumoured that the worker who was in charge of his bottle put some alcohol in it by mistake, owing to Bernard's abnormally short height and 'ugly' features.

'''Please post at the foot of the page!'''

Members of the higher castes are conditioned to dislike the shorter lower castes and this places Bernard in a grey area — he is an [[Alpha-Plus]], but is not quite part of the Alpha-Plus set. This has probably led to some of his other peculiarities. He does not enjoy the drug [[Soma (Brave New World)|soma]] or the "feelies", chooses to spend time alone, and is not promiscuous. In addition, Bernard harbours a kind of dissatisfaction with some aspects of the society and tends to be unsociable and aloof towards his more hedonistic peers. Despite his somewhat negative qualities, Bernard is profoundly intelligent and a bit philosophical.

[[User:Bishonen/My saved bits|My saved bits]], [[User:Bishonen/Problem links|Second subpage]], [[User:Bishonen/Moods|Moods]]

It has been suggested that his name is a crude amalgamation of [[George Bernard Shaw]] and [[Karl Marx]]. To some extent he acts as the novel's [[false protagonist]], being the major 'outcast' in the novel until this role is replaced largely by [[John the Savage]]. After John appears, Bernard becomes accepted as a hero, and he attempts to become promiscuous and take soma, thus becoming more fully integrated into his society.

[[User:Bishonen/Archive 1|Archive 1]], [[User:Bishonen/Archive 2|Archive 2]], [[User:Bishonen/Archive 3|Archive 3]], [[User:Bishonen/Archive 4|Archive 4]], [[User:Bishonen/Archive 5|Archive 5]], [[User:Bishonen/Archive 6|Archive 6]],

[[User:Bishonen/Archive 7|Archive 7]], [[User:Bishonen/Archive 8|Archive 8]], [[User:Bishonen/Archive 9|Archive 9]], [[User:Bishonen/Archive 10|Archive 10]], [[User:Bishonen/Archive 11|Archive 11]]

Also, Bernards's isolation is amplified early in the book when he attends a meeting for people to "become one." At this meeting 12 people take soma and become one with Ford (the man who started this idea of conformity, the book is set in A.F. 642, A.F. meaning after Ford). However, Bernard feels no effect from the soma and can only focus on one woman's unibrow.

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<big><big>'''Wikimood'''</big></big><br />

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[[Image:Zen Wikimood -05.png|200px]]

{{Brave New World}}

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{{lit-char-stub}}

[[Category:Characters in written fiction|Marx, Bernard]]

== The penis mightier than the sword ==

[[Category:Brave New World|Marx, Bernard]]

[[Category:Fictional drug users|Marx, Bernard]]

[[Category:Fictional characters who have been genetically engineered|Marx, Bernard]]

[[es:Bernard Marx]]

There was no double entendre, really. So far as I can tell, Aaron had suggested that the creation of a user box, and adding it, that said X user is an opponent of Kelly Martin's was an example of uncivil editing. However, the diff showed only a last-edit. Someone replied, apparently and oddly, to that, seeing a double entendre that at least escapes me (and I defy you to find a more sophomoric and dirty minded thinker who can type). Aaron still didn't reply, when he probably should have, and so he replied to ''you'' in the "What was I thinking." "What was I thinking" was an answer and explanation: he'd gotten involved in the blocking of the person who had created the anti-Kelly-Martin box (or commented on it, when he shouldn't have or something). Both of the boxes are up at TFD, I believe. At any rate, there was no innuendo, and I think Aaron was worried about the impression you'd gotten. (You really should read ''FH'' just to know what the fuss is about. You'll find it a mixture of hilarity and style and erotica, I imagine.) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 03:42, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

:Interesting: there is an allusion to ''Shamela'' in ''Fanny Hill,'' where Fanny refers to her "vartue." The edition I just got has a 2001 preface, where the editor wants to locate it in constructions of the feminine (yawn) ''and,'' somewhat, McKeon's categories of empiricist and skeptic::Whig and Tory, putting Cleland in the Bolingbroke/Pope camp. Cleland's father, as I'm sure you know, was Pope's friend. I agree that the novel is somewhat satirical, but you just can't be stupid and ignore the fact that it's also pornography. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 18:37, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

::Well, I can. Also interesting: did you like the poetic vandalism on your page? [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 20:23, 10 January 2006 (UTC).

Of course I did. I've been waiting for a chance to talk to you -- even going so far as to check in on IRC several times -- to tell you so. There are just so ''many'' interesting things on my user ''talk'' page these days that I thought you might have said something to me, and then I'd get to tell you that I enjoyed the poem. (You couldn't ignore the pornographic element, I bet. It's one of those things, though, where it's amazing that one cannot save the book from smut unless one ignores it or admit its smuttiness without ignoring the satirical side of it.) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 21:23, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

== I think you've earned this ==

{{Barnstar|image=Trollstar.png|text=For your tireless efforts at ensuring that abusive, sockpuppeting, blocked users ''stay'' blocked, I, [[User:Keepsleeping|keepsleeping]], award you this Anti-[[Internet troll|Troll]] [[Wikipedia:Barnstars on Wikipedia|Barnstar]].}}As one of the (no doubt many, many) users who have had your user talk watchlisted for the past week-or-so, I thought I ought to make something for you. I didn't know where you'd want it, so I've put it here until you decide whether to stick it on your userpage.

Thanks for all you do. --[[User:Keepsleeping|<font color="gray">keep</font>sleep<font color="gray">ing</font>]] [[User talk:Keepsleeping|<font color="green"><small>''quit your job!''</small></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Keepsleeping|<font color="green"><small>'''''slack off!'''''</small></font>]] 04:44, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

:You created that honey ''for'' me? I'm hugely flattered, thank you so much! Wow! I'm ''really'' sorry now that I'm such an unassuming person that I stick all my <cough>''very numerous''<cough> awards away on an [[User:Bishonen/Award gallery|awards subpage]] that doesn't hit anybody in the eye. A shame, but it can't be helped. Thanks again and keep sleeping, it's winter! (At least it is where I am.) [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 12:30, 8 January 2006 (UTC).

==Bishonen==

Bishonen nearly deleted my very first article and edit, but didn't. I think, though, that Bishonen is doing a great job here regardless of that first impression and I check back occasionaly for an idea of what to do on wikipedia. Keep up the good work and I hope to see you around. [[User:Davidrowe| DVD]]+[[User_talk:Davidrowe| R/W]] 21:58, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

:Thanks, David. I nominated [[Coop Himmelb(l)au]] for deletion, right? Sorry about that. :P If you check back on this page from time to time, you must be getting a fairly surrealist idea of what to do on wiki. The first thing I recommend is getting some ... unusual friends like I've got, to post oddness on your page. Trust me, all else will follow. :-) [[User:Hollow Wilerding|Unusual enemies]] are good too. Hope you're enjoying the many strange aspects of the wiki! [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 23:03, 8 January 2006 (UTC).

== Image stuff ==

Are you up to date with how enwiki handles images these days? I would like to find someone more knowledgeble than me to have a look at [[:Image:Nariyama2.gif]] and [[:Image:Nariyama.jpg]]. See also [[User talk:Tonifer]] and [[User talk:Habj#Peter Rehse]]. / [[User:Habj|Habj]] 02:24, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

:Hi there, Habj. En.wiki is now extremely strict about image copyright. One of those two babies has the kind of tag that'll get it deleted, and the other has no tag at all. Both of them could get deleted any minute. You'd better advise your friend to describe the situation on the image description page, with URLs to where he got them and where he's written off to. I mean right now. He can't wait till he gets a response to the query he sent off, he needs to ''say'' that he's waiting for it. Fortunately, it doesn't sound as if it would be an actual disaster if they did get deleted; presumably he could easily upload them again (with lots of info and proper tags). Still, it's simpler to avoid that. Best, [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 11:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC).

LAURENS DEAD SEXY!

== Personal Attacks ==

Calling logical wording "stilted" is more impolite and more a personal attack than is calling 'good-faith' corruption "vandalism". Further, there is an intrinsic asymmetry in what is permitted of each of us because the aggression began with you and because you are simply ''wrong''. I simply didn't and now moreso don't expect you to ''get'' that, which is why I didn't bother to labor such issues and won't much labor them here, for much the same reason that I don't pour medicine down the throat of a corpse. Wikipedia will allow you to be wrong, abated only as your energy level flags. Please be content with that power. <small>&mdash;''the preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment is by'' [[User:Gamahucheur|Gamahucheur]] ([[User talk:Gamahucheur|talk]]&nbsp;&bull;&nbsp;[[Special:Contributions/Gamahucheur|contribs]]) 03:36, January 10, 2006 (UTC{{{3|}}})</small><!--Inserted with Template:Unsigned2-->

:You're mistaken. Calling wording "stilted" isn't a personal attack at all; calling good-faith editing "vandalism" is. The first is a (mild) criticism of a presumably unintended stylistic effect, while the second goes to intent, and thereby attacks the ''person''. Please discuss the edit, not the editor. You seem to refer to some pre-history between us, where I initiated "aggression" and you refrained from laboring things because I wouldn't get them anyway...? I'm perplexed. Have we met before I posted on your page? Ever edited the same article? Perhaps you're confusing me with someone else. I'm Bishonen. Btw please note that you can sign posts on talkpages by typing four tildes, like this: <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. That will convert [[automagically]] to your username and a timestamp. Thank you. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 04:08, 10 January 2006 (UTC).

== A note ==

Regarding [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=34570751&oldid=34563377], don't worry. One more personal attack, one more bit of disruption, one more violation of [[WP:POINT]],and I'm ready to block. So don't worry ^_^.--[[User:Sean Black|Sean]]|[[User talk:Sean Black|Bla]]<font color="green">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|ck]]</font> 04:26, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

:And I have do so.--[[User:Sean Black|Sean]]|[[User talk:Sean Black|Bla]]<font color="green">[[Wikipedia:Esperanza|ck]]</font> 07:21, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

::Cool, Sean. Thanks for letting me know. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 11:01, 10 January 2006 (UTC).

== Your message ==

Thanks for your message &mdash; and I must admit that I'm not entirely surprised that Hollow Wilerding has hit trouble. It seems pretty clear to me that there are at most two adolescent boys, one of whom is pretending (unconvincingly) to be two mature women. The claim (long denied) that the two mature women, HW and Winnermario, share a computer, and that DrippingInk (who has never denied being a young boy, so far as I know) lives across the road from them and is a friend... well, I'll say no more. --[[User:Mel Etitis|Mel Etitis]] ([[User talk:Mel Etitis|<font color="green">Μελ Ετητης</font>]]) 21:43, 10 January 2006 (UTC)

:"He's my boyfriend." "He's my neighbor." "He's my husband." "He's my boyfriend." "He's my brother." "He's my boyfriend and my brother!" Shades of ''Chinatown.'' [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 02:54, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

::Or at least [[William Faulkner]]. [[User:Ganymead|''*Exeunt*'' Ganymead]] | [[User talk:Ganymead|Dialogue?]] 16:14, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

:Ooooh, very ''[[The Sound and the Fury|Caddy]]'' of you. Now I have to go find out if any of them clocks in the store window is right. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 17:24, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

::Just for fun I shall share a cute little story. When I checked out a copy of ''[[As I Lay Dying]]'' from the school library of my high school I found an interesting notation. The shortest chapter in the book reads: "My mother is a fish." (or something to that effect). Someone had penciled in underneath, "Well, no one is perfect." It reminds me of one of my favourite [[Billy Collins]] [http://www.contemporarypoetry.com/dialect/poetry/collinsmarginalia.htm poem]. [[User:Ganymead|''*Exeunt*'' Ganymead]] | [[User talk:Ganymead|Dialogue?]] 06:02, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

:Ah, Vardiman's famous syllogism. Rotten fish stink. My mother is dead. My mother has to be put in the box. Otherwise she'd stink. My mother is a fish. That's great marginalia for a high school. In my high school, all they'd have managed was "huh?" I had a story I wrote once, long, long ago, about a young woman writing a suicide note in marginalia. She took all the books she had taken out for her research project and wrote a bit in each book. Seemed like a cool premise, at the time. (I was in grad school. One works with the materials at hand.) You know, for not ''liking'' Billy Collins, I sort of ''like'' Billy Collins. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 12:53, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

::Well, people either LOVE Billy or NOT LOVE (I have yet to meet anyone who HATES him) Billy but I would be curious to know, in your infinate wisdom, what you don't like about him or maybe what you like. Whichever comes first. [[User:Ganymead|''*Exeunt*'' Ganymead]] | [[User talk:Ganymead|Dialogue?]] 14:43, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

:It's hard for me to say, really. I'm a fan of the Modernists, and I'm an academic, so I have two strikes against me already. Basically, I have never recovered from the dream of the poet as priest that the Modernists had. I still think that poets have to be philosophers, to some degree, as they can express a truth that is not rational but nevertheless real. Poets can express truth about perception, about psychology, about Society, about the nature of suffering, about the nature of justice, about social ills, etc. Now I realize as well as the next person that the super-compression of some of the High Modernists has disaffected poetry's audience. Further, I know that the "you must have a Ph.D. from Harvard and read what's on my bedstand to get it" stuff is not very helpful, but I think that a lot of what came ''after'' the Modernists lost poetry's audience just as effectively. The Confessionals, with their "this poem is about me, and you'd better know and celebrate me, because I'm doing my Whitman schtick right now" didn't help anyone (except po faced high school girls poised with a razor in one hand and Sylvia Plath in the other). Then the Black Mountain group with their "this is nature, and it's rock 'n roll, and we're hip" stuff said so damn little and managed it in such an annoying way that I'm cold. Then we get some of the Language people, and I simply don't have access to whatever cache of drugs they were taking. Finally, now, we have a big time damage control movement, where poets are trying to get back to the Folks -- the Folks who don't read poetry anymore. They sometimes say clever things, but they rarely say anything personally or socially dangerous. They rarely still say anything novel. Instead, they say amusing things, light things, things fit for a poster. Billy Collins is a step up from them, and he's highly skilled, and he's absolutely inoffensive and often charming, but ... well, I miss my tough minded, cosmically portentious, booming voiced Modernists. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 16:03, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

== RFA/William M. Connolley 2 ==

You participated in the first RFA so you may be interested in [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/William M. Connolley 2]]. ([[User:SEWilco|SEWilco]] 06:16, 11 January 2006 (UTC))

== Heeeeelp!!! ==

My [[Zamanfou|new pet]] is gone to RfD by people who don't even speak Greek! :~( [[User:Project2501a|Project2501a]] | <font size="1">[[User Talk:Project2501a|ΑΝΥΠΟΤΑΞΙΑ, ΑΠΑΛΛΑΓΗ, Ι-5]] </font> 06:37, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

:'Ηηλπ; <font size="0">''Unsigned comment by [[User:Geogre]]''</font>

::Hi, Geogre, are you Zen today? George, sorry about your baby article! It looks very... uh... interesting. Although I have to admit that the references (that I just formatted) aren't noticably better than my own at [[List of books with the subtitle "Virtue Rewarded"]]. Still, it's hardly our fault that we have to work with what's available! [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 00:30, 12 January 2006 (UTC).

:Me? I just tried to transliterate, based on my ancient understanding of Ancient Attic, but I couldn't find the aspiration mark, and transliteration is all I can do now. I am now here nowhere, and that's totally Zen. I just got a dissertation in the mail, and it's very cleverly written so far -- good sense of style -- but I didn't see an important person thanked in the acknowledgements page. (Must teach tomorrow, though no bets on whether I'll actually educate.) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 03:19, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

::You got that dissertation ''now''? Oh, for... Christmas or no Christmas, I sent it a ''month'' ago! :-( Did the the First Class sticker fall off? I've noticed they aren't very gluey. You ought rather to have gotten something else in the mail about today, but I expect that'll reach you in February. Man, this stinks. We'll have to use teleporting. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 03:41, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

:Just got it yesterday, yep. I thought the introduction had great dynamism. The dichotomy it outlines is familiar to any American, but the English, in particular, seems first class, with a good sense of style. Mail has to first get to the US, then get inspected by George Bush, then get looked at by Condi Rice to erase the stick figures he drew in the margins, and then it has to go to the [[Heritage Foundation]] for an opinion for Condi, and then it has to go to NSA to be scanned, and then it has to go back in the package and get sent to a regional center, and then it has to go to Baptistville to come to my mailbox. (The thing ''had'' been partly torn open, and you ''are'' a foreigner from the "Axis of Weasel" countries, and I ''am'' a Known Weirdo, so we have to be safe.) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 12:47, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

== Re: Wikimood ==

That's fine, but please note that I only track users with Wikimoods using the images that I created. -- <span style="border: 2px solid #ba0000;">&nbsp;[[User:Denelson83|Denelson]][[User talk:Denelson83|'''83''']]&nbsp;</span> 21:17, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

:Uh, you track them? Er... what? [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 21:22, 11 January 2006 (UTC).

::Sounds frightening. I think you have a rouge Wikimood now, Bishonen. &mdash;[[User:Bunchofgrapes|Bunchofgrapes]] ([[User talk:Bunchofgrapes|talk]]) 21:48, 11 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Not at all! Real ladies at most pinch their cheeks into a becoming shade of natural pink! My new mood-o-meter has already come in useful for vandalism, it seems; check out [[User:Beckjord]], unless it's already been reverted. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 22:38, 11 January 2006 (UTC).

::::Remember, each image page has a "what links here" section right at the bottom of the page. That's what I mean by "tracking." <span style="border: 2px solid #ba0000;">&nbsp;[[User:Denelson83|Denelson]][[User talk:Denelson83|'''83''']]&nbsp;</span> 01:55, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

::::Tsk, your device has confused [[User:Martial Law|Martial Law]]: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Bigfoot&diff=34810169&oldid=34806540] &mdash;[[User:Bunchofgrapes|Bunchofgrapes]] ([[User talk:Bunchofgrapes|talk]]) 04:23, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::Bish, please note that I only track users with Wikimoods that are you! [[User:El C|El_C]] 08:43, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

::::::Where are my elderberries?! /stomps [[Image:MontyPythonFootLeftSmall.jpg|33px]] [[User:El C|El_C]] 08:56, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::::Fine, ignore me. I know where I can find ''another'' shrubbery. :( *sniff* [[User:El C|El_C]] 09:08, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

::::::::Oooohh, I ignored you for 12 minutes, I don't wonder you're grumpy, Bigfoot and Smallfoot. So sorry! I've put a mood indicator on your page for you, hope you find it suitable at this juncture. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 12:58, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::Sorry, there's only one Wikipedia-is-mood for moi! [[User:El C|El_C]] 14:31, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

::::::::::Sigh. Wikipedia servers are way too slow and unstably right now, so I am unable to spam propperly, i.e. in the SFSR, wikimood sets you, etc. :( [[User:El C|El_C]] 14:45, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

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*Soldier: Well, I'll ask 'im, but I don't think 'e'll be very keen-- 'e's already gotone, you see?

*Arthur: What?

*Lancelot: He says they've already *got* one!

*Arthur: Are you *sure* he's got one?

*Soldier:Oh yes, it's ver' naahs. <small>[to the other soldiers:] I told 'em we've already *got* one!</small>

*Arthur: Well... ah, um... Can we come up and have a look?

*Soldier: Of course not! You are English types.

*Arthur: Well, what are you then?

*Soldier: Ah'm French! Why do you think I have this out-rrrageous accent, you silly king?!

*Galahad: What are you doing in England?

*Soldier: Mind your own business!

-------

== AOL IP Block ==

Working tonight? I'd appreciate a release, if so. Here's a copy of the note left for User:DragonflySixtyseven. Same old problem -- Best wishes. [[User:WBardwin|WBardwin]] 09:35, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

:Please be aware that when you place a block on a IP address used by AOL, you rarely hit your target. Instead, innocent users get blocked for other's vandalism or misbehavior. Such IP addresses, including the one below, are on a ''list'' available to administrators and should never be blocked for long/indefinate periods of time. I have a long history of being impacted by such blocks. Please see [[User:WBardwin/AOL Block Collection]] for a history and decisions made on this problem. I would appreciate a prompt release of this and related blocks. Thank you.

:Your IP address is 207.200.116.134. Your user name or IP address has been blocked by DragonflySixtyseven.

== Main page vandalism ==

Your fast on the trigger today! [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 13:58, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

:For you, always! Lobbed a couple of quick grenades also.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:152.105.240.62&diff=prev&oldid=34886832], [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:152.105.146.175&diff=prev&oldid=34886820]. --[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 14:13, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

::::You cruel brute, they are probably only little children skiving off school. I just had a look to see how [[Sicilian Baroque]] is faring on the French main page (do you think it's a record to simultaneously have one on each? - anyway they seem to have a different class of vandal there [http://fr.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Baroque_sicilien&diff=4961630&oldid=4961361] in fact they only seem to have one vandal which means either less readers or a more intelligent reader, trouble is the vandalism here is not even witty. I've always felt a great affinity with the French, I'm sure in a previous life I was Napoleon or some other heroic soul [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 15:52, 12 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::Great Scott, you have them on both Main pages today? I can't believe that's happened before, no. Wow. (Runs off to post a note that I know will offend your modesty. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk:Featured_article_candidates&diff=34908733&oldid=34743147 Done]. Sorry!). [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 17:56, 12 January 2006 (UTC).

== Next, allude to "The Deserted Village" ==

I caught it. Gray's Elegy is far too easy. See if you can work in an allusion to ''Goldsmith'' next time, or Pope, of course. Pope's always good. If you allude to Shakespeare, I'll never get it (unless everyone does). (On the banks of the savage [[Altamaha River|Altamaha]].) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 00:32, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

:Now, now, don't go all competitive on me. I never doubted you'd ''catch'' it, you Renaissance [[polymath]], I was asking if you ''liked'' it. (Wasn't it kind of cool? Prettily discordant context?) Hey, it just strikes me, if your own quotes are meant as challenges, you must have thought I didn't ''get'' the "Caddy" allusion? Bah. I'm reasonably familiar with what's-his-name. (;-)). I even ''like'' "As I Lay Whatsit". Anyway, I have one word for you: Google. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 01:00, 13 January 2006 (UTC).

Competitive? Me? I'm less competitive than ''you'' any day of the week! (Of course not competitive. But part of the game is having someone continue to play by responding with a similar quote/allusion.) I did like the allusion. How could one not? And now "left to darkness and to me" has always seemed a sinister thing for Gray to have said. It's sort of like he plans to go peeping in windows (and he had a spot of trouble with a window, once, when some boys decided to get him for his...habits...and were, English boarding school-style, excessively harsh). Speaking of harsh, I managed to be the most Rhadamanthine of all on wp:an/i when it came to our Chinatown/Faulkner user (and he's back to being a roommate now). (I thought "Caddy/Catty" was too good, meself, but I have the poor grace to always laugh loudest at my own jokes.) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 02:27, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

:Indeed, I saw you on ANI — harsh but true, every word. I'm afraid my first thought was, vindictively, that perhaps the user will now realize she got a ''soft'' admin. I blocked her for about one quarter as long as policy suggests for those violations; such was my "grudge" and "personal vendetta". She can have you next time, scary guy. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 02:40, 13 January 2006 (UTC).

Precisely. Had he been at a stable IP and been sent through RFar, I suspect the verdict would have been -- certainly ''could'' have been -- an indefinite block. The trick is that this is a person with juvenile content rather than vandalism, so he's not at all like the hard banned users of the past, but he is not at all ''unlike'' Michael. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 11:34, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

:Haha, you can mentor him, then, if it's Michael. Perfect. Seriously, I tried to explain (to deaf ears) to you-know-who that it wasn't ''good'' for this user to be encouraged to think of herself as an innocent victim of my "very bad approach" — I bet she took courage from that to carry on saying I needed to be desysopped because of failing to AGF in the face of her self-contradictions, and other such rampant foolishness. These things only make it harder for the community to accept her back. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 12:21, 13 January 2006 (UTC).

Not A Chance. No. You know [[user:Everyking|who]] would be the logical mentor, but I'm not sure that anyone would like that. I'm going to have my hands very full this semester teaching 60 kids to improve their writing and seriousness of purpose, so I don't need another. (I agree, of course. The user is not a victim. The user is a user.) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 13:54, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

== We ben pr0wnd!!!!! ==

We now have a cleanly worded article on a cleanly worded pornographer. I finally finished reading introductions to the book and the DNB and wrote [[John Cleland]]. The language I used is a bit fussy, I'm afraid -- too 1911 in its way -- but it's a fair article on him. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 16:45, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

:Er... there was a question from Geogre posted right here, and I'd just typed a a perfectly good answer to it; according to the History, ALoan deleted it in favor of the longitudinal fallacy. SNORT. Don't get over-excited, guys. I'll just paste it back in, right here:

::''Is it possible for someone to have someone else's contribs watchlisted? There was a lightning quick and helpful edit behind me. It was surprising. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 16:54, 13 January 2006 (UTC)''

::: Reply: No, the wiki software doesn't allow it. I saw somebody requesting the feature on IRC yesterday, saying how useful it'd be for vandalhunting. ''However'', I'd be surprised if there isn't a scriptkiddie kludge that you can use on an individual basis. You might do worse than ask the helpful person if they have something like that. Most people love for other people to use their kludges. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 19:08, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

::Oh ''no'' - this is about the third time in as many days that I have managed to overwrite someone's comments. I keep getting silent edit conflits. For the record, I did not delete your comment deliberately: it about the last thing I would do. Please accept my profuse apologies. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 20:50, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

No worries. I thought that perhaps I had accidentally betrayed one of the secrets of the Cabal and that my question had to be removed for violating secrets. Then I realized that I '''am''' the Cabal, so if it's secret from me, it's not part of the Cabal. Then I figured it was just a bug. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 22:14, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

:"longitudinal fallacy" - snort. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 17:13, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

That cracked me up when I read it, too. That's why I had to repeat it. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 17:34, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

Let me just say that I am pleased, honored, and relieved that folks seem to see the stuff I'm doing so quickly and help out. I'm hardly worthy. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 17:45, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

:I got rid of those latter day Clelands that uglied the top of the article. Of course, I wouldn't have noticed the article if you hadn't posted on Bish's talkpage. I'm disappointed nobody has noticed my bold move earlier today into the natural sciences with the stub [[Fluorescent green pig]] and improved ''that''. Maybe it helps if I mention it here? [[User:Tupsharru|Tupsharru]] 18:03, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

::Oh, good, Tups. I was just gonna suggest to Geogre to please lose those bu... fellows. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 19:19, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

That really helped, too. As for the pigs, I think we'll see more warring on the category tags and the bio-box templates that will need to be added to it. Besides, when flourescent green pigs start showing up in ''Home Beautiful,'' you'll have been the first one there. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 18:19, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

:Apparently the pigs are fluorescent green all the way through; perhaps you should get started on [[Fluorescent green pork chop]]. (I do not like eggs and green ham, Sam I Am.) [[User:Bunchofgrapes|Bunchofgrapes]] 18:37, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

::And may I now have a moment to say that [[John Cleland]] is fu... is absolutely great? Geogre, you fine sly malcontent, you! :-) That article really improved my wikimood. (I'll go change it right away, in your honor.) [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 19:08, 13 January 2006 (UTC).

:::Moreover. Since people are anyways using this page as a noticeboard for ''mentioning'' things, I'll just mention [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Theodore7|Requests for comment/Theodore7]]. It's not beautifully illustrated like [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Bishonen|some RFC's I could mention]], but quite interesting. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 19:19, 13 January 2006 (UTC).

Fluorescent [[Green Eggs and Ham]]? -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 20:50, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

:Ahh... I knew I was missing some kind of American cultural reference somewhere. Actually, making [[fluorescent green poultry]] is probably not too difficult. We will need a [[:Category:Fluorescent green animals]] eventually. (At some point I'm sure fluorescent animals only coming in green will seem ''so'' early 21st century, like [[Ford Model T|automobiles from Ford]] only coming in black, and the green model will be rebranded as [[Fluorescent Pig Classic|Fluorescent Pig Classic<small>^TM</small>]].) [[User:Tupsharru|Tupsharru]] 09:05, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

::I think you're right. Did you get a category tag for [[:Category:Fluorescent green vegetables]]? There was the glowing corn ("maise" for you furrinners) and the faintly luminescent potato ("potatoe" for US Vice Presidents), and soon one's pet will glow only when one claps twice. There will be the Pet Clapper. "Where is Fluffy? <clap clap> Oh! There she is!" Tailor your pet to glow in a color to match your home decor. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 12:51, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

==Block of IP [[User:209.226.83.2|209.226.83.2]]==

Hi. I'm not sure if you're aware of this, but this IP address is used by ''54'' schools. I've left a response to your message on [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents]] about it. I haven't unblocked it, but we should seriously consider taking a different approach with this particular address. <font color="#8b4513">[[User:Mindmatrix|Mind]]</font><font color="#ee8811">[[User_talk:Mindmatrix|matrix]]</font> 20:28, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

:I agree. Thank you. Unblocked. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 20:48, 13 January 2006 (UTC)

== Hollow Wilerding: The Adventure Continues ==

Sorry to bother you, but Hollow Wilerding has created yet another account at {{user|Solar Serenity}}, despite an ongoing discussion at [[Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents#Attempting_to_resurrect_Wikipedia_career]] where I provided evidence that she was also the person operating {{user|Winnermario}}. :( [[User:Extraordinary Machine|Extraordinary Machine]] 01:33, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

::Thanks, I saw, I'm just typing a response for ANI now. I've no idea what's the matter with alteripse—''is'' that really alteripse, making those extraordinary statements? As soon as I've posted on ANI, I'll block the new account. Unless you want to? She ****ing well is NOT free to edit! Not until the two-week block runs out, at the earliest, and if the community thinks so. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 01:46, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

:::I'm not an administrator, so I can't block accounts. Anyway, I've posted a comment below yours at [[WP:AN/I]]. I think it's pretty obvious by now that Hollow Wilerding is Winnermario, which (from Winnermario's incivility and personal attacks) creates even greater cause for concern. [[User:Extraordinary Machine|Extraordinary Machine]] 02:12, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

::Well, as everyone by now knows, I've stepped into the role of Big Meanie. I'd block, but I think, in a way, it might be best if the editor were to alight at a particular place so that we have a target for RFar. How can we ask for a permablock, mediation, meditation, mentoring, or mendacity bans, if there's nothing to refer to? It's not like "Hollow" was his first account. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 12:54, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

:It Never Ends. I'm on the verge of deeming all those who "try to be reasonable about it" simple cullies. It's not like this hasn't been spelled out about fifty times. Even the most desultory reading of the noticeboard would have folks familiar with it. It's about time for a hard ban. For that matter, I really am considering getting the Toronto phone book. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 02:36, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

::Cullies or trolls. Arguing on ANI after "just looking at her contributions for a few seconds" — basically, demanding that unspecified others research this probable admin abuse — is pretty close to trolling, if you ask me. I've posted, I hope usefully, a crash course for anybody who's really interested underneath your post. And so good night. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 03:02, 15 January 2006 (UTC).

:::If I had to guess, the presence of the {{tl|user rc}} userbox on HW's page was all Chooserr needed to see. Userboxes, the root of all evil. &mdash;[[User:Bunchofgrapes|Bunchofgrapes]] ([[User talk:Bunchofgrapes|talk]]) 03:12, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:::: Argh. [[User:Chooserr]] may be well-meaning but he regularly shows that he doesn't understand how Wikipedia works. I was wondering why he stuck his oar in here. [[User:FreplySpang|FreplySpang]] [[User talk:FreplySpang|(talk)]] 21:49, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

::Sigh. You know, some of us actually add Roman Catholic content to Wikipedia (my saint a day project, e.g.), even though we're not Catholics. Some of us add user boxes and edit war over f*cking pro-choice topics. Let's see people with that user box add articles on the encyclicals. We don't have coverage of most of the significant papal bulls. We're finally getting most of the diets and councils, but there are plenty of those left. I said recently on my user page that I personally feel like I pay the rent by writing content, and all the time that I don't add content, I feel like a freeloader. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 12:42, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Not a Catholic - quite. For example, [[List of Encyclicals of Pope John Paul II]] is gravely lacking. I bet [[Deus Caritas Est]] does quite well, though. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 14:15, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

::'''Exactly!''' There are over 10,000 saints. We have loads of them, but we don't have 10,000. I stuck to the saints because, as an Anglican Communion kind of guy, I find them interesting, and there are a ton of them that illustrate history delightfully (cultural history, most of the time, but political history quite often, too). In other words, which figures and which stories a society chooses to celebrate as holy tell us a great deal about the issues, thoughts, and values of that people at that time. This is a gap in history studies, IMO. The encyclicals tell us stuff, too, although at such variance with the historical moment as to require a delicate historical touch. In other words, these things are all inherently interesting. Do we get articles on them? No. However, as you point out, one that seems to suggest that sex is fun...well, stand back. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 14:37, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

::::Well, the encyclical is released and I have added it to [[WP:ITN]] (since it is in virtually all other news source) - I suppose I might as well have added a sign saying "vandals this way". [[User:Mushroom|Mushroom]] seems to think "caritas" does not mean love, despite the Church translating it that way. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 12:36, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

::::I am so proud - "‘Ο θεος ’αγαπε ’εστιν". Grin. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 17:11, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::It's "‘αγαπη", actually ;-) [[User:Sam Korn|Sam Korn]] ^{[[User talk:Sam Korn|(smoddy)]]} 17:17, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

:::So, let's see what personal invective has been betrayed. Bunchofgrapes doesn't like user boxes and implies that they create false alliances. I express irritation at people who call themselves defenders of the faith but don't do any research or writing. ALoan agrees that we don't have much, all things considered. I agree with ALoan that Wikipedia's editor population is shallow and unserious. Wow. I hope no one else gets to see these secret assessments! FWIW, I've put a week down on the Hollow account after the admission, in so many words, that "she" evaded the blocks because "she" didn't like them. That's a confession, and that's all anyone needs. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 21:43, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

::Well I'm glad somebody told me of this conversation...I didn't do it just because she had an RC box, yes I found out about her by it, but I did look over her edits, and I didn't see her doing anything too bad. I also have tried to be fair an unbiased, and I don't like any allegations that may have been hinted at. [[User:Chooserr|Chooserr]] 01:07, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Oh and I thought we'd resolved the problem about the E you capitalise wronfully in my name...It's Chooserr [[User:Chooserr|Chooserr]] 01:09, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:I suspect that you're being duped. That's about it. This editor is like Michael, in that many of the edits are fine and most are miniscule, but the behavior is wholly mendacious. You really would be poorly served by believing anything the user says about himself/herself, as he has been caught in at least four ''sets'' of lies. I wouldn't believe that the user is Roman Catholic, that the user is female, that the user is male, that the user is singular, that the user is plural, or anything else. All that I believe is what I know: the user was blocked for personal attacks and created a new account to evade that and, when that was blocked for voting for itself, created four more accounts to evade those blocks. Nothing else is germane, really. When we edit at Wikipedia, we accept its regulations, and one of those regulations is that we can be temporarily blocked for misbehavior. We don't need to keep proving the misbehavior. We can examine all that at ArbCom, later, '''after''' the block evasion stops. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 02:06, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

::I just expanded the [[University of Paris]] with a lot of stuff [[public ___domain|stolen]] from the [[Catholic Encyclopedia]]. Now there is a bunch of red links in there for people with names like [[Hubold]] ("a professor of renown in the [[school of Ste-Geneviève]]"), [[Filbert of Chartres]], [[Drogo of Paris]], [[Manegold of Germany]] (presumably = [[Manegold of Lautenbach]]), [[Gebbard of Salzburg|Gebbard, Archbishop of Salzburg]], [[Robert d'Arbrissel]] (founder of the [[Abbey of Fontevrault]]), [[Gerard La Pucelle|Gerard (or Girard) La Pucelle]], [[Mathieu d'Angers]], [[Anselm of Paris|Anselm (or Anselle) of Paris]], [[Conrad of Mainz|Cardinal Conrad, Archbishop of Mainz]]. As far as I have been able to tell all actual saints already had articles. But these guys probably all ''knew'' a saint or two.

::I think we need a rule demanding contributors to add at least one medieval abbot for every football player (either kind). Any article including one of the words "[[abbey]]", "[[decretum]]", or "[[codex]]" in the title is fine too. [[User:Tupsharru|Tupsharru]] 19:04, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

==No worries==

No worries at all. Cheers. ''':)'''

==Can you...==

Can you correct the meter error, since I'm not a Admin. yet ? [[User:Martial Law|Martial Law]] 04:17, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

==Thank you!==

{|border="0" cellspacing="5" style="float: center; background: #FFCCCC; border: 2px solid #4040FF;"

|Thanks for supporting me on my Rfa, Bishonen! I appreciate your trust. Perhaps one day I will be jaded enough, or horrified enough, to use <bv>, especially if I see the kind of hate vandals you spoke of. Thank you so much for your kind words, they were much appreciated - as was the humor. The puppy is now an Admin (final tally 58/7/2) Please let me know if there is anything I can ever do to assist you. [[User:KillerChihuahua|KillerChihuahua]]^{[[User talk:KillerChihuahua|?!?]]} 18:08, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

|}

==Thank for blocking the sock puppet==

thanks for blocking the sock puppet/anon [[User talk:12.74.75.184]]. [[User:Travb|Travb]] 23:24, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

:Who ever block him, I appreciate it. I can debate anyone, head to head, but I have no patience for cowards who refuse to play by some of the basic rules of wikipedia. [[User:Travb|Travb]] 23:37, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

::You're fast! :-) --[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 23:40, 14 January 2006 (UTC)

==friends...==

hullo Bish --- no I hadn't seen your rfc, but now that I have, I am of course envious that you should have received so many cookies :) Regarding my "friend" posting that nice "award" to my talkpage, I can only assume that is the nice gentleanon I came across on [[Talk:Artgemeinschaft]] :| best regards, [[User:Dbachmann|dab]] <small>[[User_talk:Dbachmann|('''&#5839;''')]]</small> 15:47, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:Talks rather like it.[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:84.160.239.179] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User_talk:84.160.230.33] Filing "gentleanon" for future use. :-) [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 16:07, 15 January 2006 (UTC).

:: Hey now... none of those [[WP:NOR|neologisms]] here. We need to keep this place respectable. Keineswegs! Keinerlei Veränderung! Bad Dieter! Bad bad Admin! :P

::→ [[User:Pádraic_MacUidhir|<font color="006400">'''P'''</font><font color="4B0082">'''.'''</font><font color="008000">'''M'''</font><font color="008000">'''a'''</font><font color="008000">'''c'''</font><font color="228B22">'''U'''</font><font color="228B22">'''i'''</font><font color="228B22">'''d'''</font><font color="228B22">'''h'''</font><font color="228B22">'''i'''</font><font color="228B22">'''r'''</font>]] [[User talk:Pádraic MacUidhir|<font color="9400D3">(t)</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Pádraic MacUidhir|(c)]] 20:18, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Fram för förnyelse! Go Dieter! [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 20:23, 15 January 2006 (UTC).

:::: <laughing...>

:::: → [[User:Pádraic_MacUidhir|<font color="006400">'''P'''</font><font color="4B0082">'''.'''</font><font color="008000">'''M'''</font><font color="008000">'''a'''</font><font color="008000">'''c'''</font><font color="228B22">'''U'''</font><font color="228B22">'''i'''</font><font color="228B22">'''d'''</font><font color="228B22">'''h'''</font><font color="228B22">'''i'''</font><font color="228B22">'''r'''</font>]] [[User talk:Pádraic MacUidhir|<font color="9400D3">(t)</font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Pádraic MacUidhir|(c)]] 20:31, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

== Beckjord ==

Given {{user|Luminary666}}'s recent appearance, I think the only useful course of action is ArbCom. I'm going to make sure the others I asked to take part in the RfC are on board with this change, but I can almost guarantee that they are; evidence would be appreciated. [[User:Android79|<span style="color: green">android</span>]][[User talk:Android79|<span style="color: purple">79</span>]] 16:58, 15 January 2006 (UTC)

==Your comment at [[WP:AN/I]]==

I am already violating my one-week block, but since you seem to oppose the idea of an Arbitration, why don't you unblock me and allow me to edit? I can't stop saying how much I'm not guilty of any crime and that it was you who started the controversy. By the way, since the block on [[User:Solar Serenity]] is about to lift, what is going to happen with that account? Can we leave it for my brother to operate in one-weeks' time? Let us put it this way: I will go away for one week, and I will not file the Arbitration if you let my brother operate the account. This way the community is allowing my brother access to Wikipedia while I do not violate my block for one week. My brother will not begin editing for one-weeks' time as well so that you don't suspect any block evasion. Is this deal fair enough? Would you finally be willing to compromise with me on this? [[User:64.231.168.115|64.231.168.115]] 01:40, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:And as much as you sound convinced, no, I am ''not'' a child. :/ [[User:64.231.168.115|64.231.168.115]] 01:40, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

::Really? You're an adult who's unaware of time zones? I see you post misdirections about that at [[User talk:Markalexander100]], btw; you avoid linking to any of the posts in the ANI thread that do discuss the way the end of the block depends on what zone you're in, and claim that a comment from me says or implies that the block will run out at a particular time on the 15th. Here's a real comment from me: "My block will be released on January 15th or 16th — whatever your timezone says"[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Administrators%27_noticeboard/Incidents&diff=35238652&oldid=35233110]. No matter, the whole idea that ''you'' get to unilaterally decide that "now the block ''ought'' to be released, so I have a right to edit from another IP" shows that you have no respect for this site. How many times have the words "my right" been in your mouth these past couple of weeks? You have no rights, you're here on sufferance, like the rest of us. Editing wikipedia is a privilege, not a right. It can be forfeited.

::I'll make no deals with you, even if I could understand what compromise it is you offer. Do you suppose it'll hurt '''me''' if you file for arbitration? Advising against it was a mere impulse of pity on my part. Please refer again to the post I asked you to read attentively: after the day-by-day stream of abuse you've been directing at me, you don't have a wimpy admin any more. You've forfeited me. Talk to Geogre. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 02:45, 16 January 2006 (UTC).

:::You're just a terrible woman if this the way you go about things; rarely were you civil towards me. Whatever. Goodbye. [[User:64.231.168.115|64.231.168.115]] 02:57, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

== Re-blocking of Hollow Wiledring ==

Just to let you know: I have put a one week block on the Hollow Wilerding account following "her" admission on wp:an/i that "she" was evading blocks. I have not blocked the dynamic IP, though I would consider blocking the whole dang range, if necessary. I am also considering calling the real life Courtni Wilerding in Toronto to find out if this editor's mendacity is as pervasive as it appears. (It's easy enough to get a Toronto phone book at the university library.) When the user suspends editing for a week, it will be possible to engage her in the next logical step: RFar. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 02:00, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:Yes, I've been concerned about Courtni for some time, I wish you would. I accidentally undid your block, Geogre, or rather the software undid it (and Snowspinner's) when I unblocked my own original block of the HW account. My intention in doing that was to enable yours, not to annihilate it. But it shouldn't matter, I reinstated it right away, of course, and have stated in the log that it is a reinstatement of ''yours''; that's the best I can do. It means the search facility won't find it if anybody searches for "Geogre", but, oh, well, it can scarcely matter. I hope you don't mind. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 02:52, 16 January 2006 (UTC).

That's alright, except that it enables the user's continued paranoia that it's all a Bishonen vendetta, etc., if that matters. I doubt it will. I'm not sure the user understands, quite, that, although it's fine if he or she wishes to file an RFar against you, the ArbCom that we're discussing is a motion against her. I'll say at the outset that the result of it will be mentoring, and that's fine, but we have to have a mentor who hasn't weighed in and who has standing in a content area other than her own, at least to satisfy me, because there have been folks who have used the content area as an excuse for the other actions, and that's just not allowed. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 13:44, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:But I believe the ArbCom would be quite likely to accept a request by her, except it would be in order to look into her conduct. They do that, I've seen examples. (So have you, FreplySpang, if you're there!) That's fine, in the sense that it would save me or whoever the trouble of drafting a request for arbitration against ''her''. I only entreated her not to because it seemed too sad: the RFC forgotten, she's still "threatening" to make me feel the wrath of the community by filing yet another complaint! I don't get any pleasure out of watching this self-destruction. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 14:08, 16 January 2006 (UTC).

:As I've said on my page, there is a kind of [[event horizon]] involved. At a certain point, it's all suction, and there's no point throwing any more words in the graphemic hole. What will be, will be. Let's hope the user can stay away for the week and not reset the block ''again.'' [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 16:37, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

Worth pointing out another deception? Well, if it is, let me make obvious something hidden up there. The Hollow Wildering editor asks what will happen if she goes away for a week, per the block, but leaves the Solar Serenity account for her brother, Cruz, to use. Well, on WP:AN/I ("Attempting to ressurrect..."), she announces loudly that her brother Cruz has left for good and will never edit again. (sigh) This isn't shocking for those of us who have been playing the home game of "spot-the-inconsistencies," but since we have people often tricked into taking part, it's probably wise to be explicit. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 22:29, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

== Dear Bishonen ==

[[Image:Mistletoesok.jpg|160px|thumb|left|Let their bright color wash away your grief, Bishonen!]]Dear Bishonen, I haven't had the chance to interact with you yet, but I can easily see you are having a rough time dealing with unpleasant people, and I'd hate to see an obvious asset to WP and a great person stressed due to the deeds of a mere troll. Here's a small gift to cheer you up - over here, we hold these little mistletoes dear. If they succeed in making you smile even for a moment, then their purpose is fulfilled - and so will be mine for today. Cheers, '''''[[User:Phaedriel|Phædriel]]''''' ''^{[[User talk:Phaedriel|tell me]]}'' 03:26, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:Pretty! Thanks very much. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 04:27, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

==Beckjord likes the flowers==

Hey folks, has it ever occurred to you that the main thrust at Wiki is not making good

articles, it is really Who Blocks Whom, and Who has Power Over Whom.

Then, who Reverts Whom, and who Re-reverts Whom.

THAT is the big game here. Power tripping. Getting Barnstars and Merit Badges.

BTW, I am not Hollow Wieldering or whomever....

Carry on with your games.

Also, members of the WAFE group I started may overstep bounds now and then,

and if any are rude, I am sorry. But as to whether this ip or that person gets blocked,

do you really think in the MeatSpace that anyone, I mean anyone, really gives a damn?

This is just a huge, absurd, game. Fair boggles the mind.

beckjord[[User:66.248.85.124|66.248.85.124]] 08:18, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

And you regard the game from above with amused detachment, right? Except that you [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Bishonen/Moods&diff=35247704&oldid=34783786 blanked] [[User:Bishonen/Moods|the image gallery]] I'd just set up, in revenge for being blocked. Oops, I mean your one-man WAFE group blanked it. Or did it annoy you that somebody put the "Bigfoot" image from it on your userpage? That was nothing to do with me. You're a pettier man than I thought. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 13:25, 16 January 2006 (UTC).

==thanks==

for taking the trouble to leave the note on the user's page. [[User:Alteripse|alteripse]] 18:45, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

==I apparently have a limited imagination==

was NOT thinking of Bekjord when I answered that question. [[User:KillerChihuahua|KillerChihuahua]]^{[[User talk:KillerChihuahua|?!?]]}

:Heh, I was posting here while you were posting on my page... But come on, how much more blatant can you get than those childish threats? [[User:KillerChihuahua|KillerChihuahua]]^{[[User talk:KillerChihuahua|?!?]]} 20:40, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

== Carambat ==

[[Image:More piglets.jpg|right|thumb|150px|Some pets for Olga softly squealing in the hintergrund.]]

Is one of my favourite fidlers, WE often sit with a glass of chianti in hand listening to the incomparable scratch of his melodious fluidity at 78 rpm, while the scent of oranges wafts throught the windows, the curtains rustling in the gentle breeze, and the goats softly bleeting in the hinterground. I'm surprised you don't know him! I thought you were cultured like me! [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 21:54, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:Oh, everyone knows [[Carambat]] - much more famous than [[Olga Rudge|that woman]]. I'm surprised he doesn't have an extensive article already. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 22:01, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:: I was of course referring to [[Léon Carambât]], who as everyone knows was rather famous! [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 22:07, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Well, you'd best let me know when I can conveniently edit. I see the page is busy again and I don't want to conflict anybody. I'll be back to put in a few pets for the nice woman, for when Ezra's out being ''less'' faithful to his ''other'' mistresses — wtf does that even mean? [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 22:20, 16 January 2006 (UTC).

::::* I didn't write that, or mean it like that anyway - I'm foreign you know. Trust you to bring a women's perspective to poor old Ezra, men are not like women you know - we can't help it - Olga understood him so why can't you - I have wondered though what she did while he was locked up for so long - I mean she can't have just fiddled on her own can she - what a shame Fil's gone AWOL he probably would have known - never mind I'm sure she was fullfilled by Ezra when he was around - You are quite safe there now - I'm going to bed! Be sympathetic to her, I think she's rather a sweet old thing [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 22:27, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

::I can just [[imagism|image]] it. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 22:30, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Have you considered a career in television ALoan, a sort of alternative to [[Ian Hislop]]? [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 22:33, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

::::Oh, after my well-received appearances in [[You and Me]] (no, not that You and Me - [http://tv.cream.org/a-z/uvwxyz/u3.htm this] one) and [[University Challenge]] (some years before [[User:Worldtraveller|Worldtraveller]], who is still doing what his user name suggests), I was unable to live up to my early promise. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 22:48, 16 January 2006 (UTC)

== I think it's ready to go ==

[[User:Android79/Arb|I added some diffs]]. You still around? [[User:Android79|<span style="color: green">android</span>]][[User talk:Android79|<span style="color: purple">79</span>]] 00:35, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

:Only just awake :-). Well, mine doesn't have any diffs, and I won't have any time do dig them out until after work tomorrow. I think you'd better leave me out until I can do that (unless you have a few diffs to add to my statement yourself?). Accusations without diffs are just huffing and puffing, they're useless and don't make a good impression. But I'll be happy to be a party to the request, and I can add my bit tomorrow night. I think it's sort of normal that these things grow while on the RFAR page. Another thing, though: the "Involved parties" shouldn't be just you and me, especially since my involvement is marginal (to put it mildly). I think the other guys — the main defenders of the wiki against Beckjord — should add their signatures under "Involved parties", especially DreamGuy, but really all of them. "Involved parties" needn't be limited to people who have written a statement. Check out some others on the RFAR page: the KDRGibby request doesn't have any statement by [[User:172]], for instance. And... hey! I just realized. You can't leave the confirmation that B's aware of the request blank. You need to post on his talkpage to tell him, then add a link to that post as confirmation. And so good night. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 01:06, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

::Early train, eh? Well, I think I'll add some diffs to your stuff, put some more names on the thing, and post it. Whether that's tonight or tomorrow morning remains to be seen. [[User:Android79|<span style="color: green">android</span>]][[User talk:Android79|<span style="color: purple">79</span>]] 02:32, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

::And, I can't really add the thing about notifying B if I ain't notified him yet, can I? <tt>:-)</tt> [[User:Android79|<span style="color: green">android</span>]][[User talk:Android79|<span style="color: purple">79</span>]] 02:33, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Heh, no, but just notify him already: write a note on [[User talk:Beckjord]]. If he's turned totally to riding the rotating AOL proxies and doesn't see it, it's not your fault. But do crosspost to any other commensense alternative he's got, any IP he uses frequently, and make a note of whether he shows in any way that he's seen it. ArbCom likes to see good-faith effort in this area. Otherwise, yes,, do it exactly like ... like ... what was I gonna ....exactly. Like. You. Say. ZZZZZZZZZ. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 02:56, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

Finally posted: [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration#Beckjord]]. I took the liberty of adding some diffs to your statement and doing a little updating/copyediting. All it needs is your signature. [[User:Android79|<span style="color: green">android</span>]][[User talk:Android79|<span style="color: purple">79</span>]] 22:55, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

==Thank you so much==

Thank you for un-blocking me. I assure you that I will not lash out at Travb.

==Sock-o-rama==

[[User:Bishonen|I]] just posted [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Requests_for_CheckUser&diff=prev&oldid=35475809 this link] to the talkpage of the [[User:Geogre|Geogreshonen]] identity, and it strikes us/me that it would make sense if you/they posted it here at [[User:Bishonen|Bishogre]] as well. What can I/who say, we/you have been outed. Each talkpage will henceforth redirect to the other. [[User:Bishonen|Geobish]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 02:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)..

:OMGWTFBBQ... better check me, too... [[User:Android79|<span style="color: green">android</span>]][[User talk:Android79|<span style="color: purple">79</span>]] 02:31, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

:You're enjoying this a little ''too'' much. I'm disappointed that she didn't point out that you both write a lot about old, dead people who aren't pop stars. I'm also disappointed that she didn't go to the trouble of digging up something you both voted in, to at least, you know, make a case that you were abusive sockpuppets. I guess it's just obvious on the face of it. &mdash;[[User:Bunchofgrapes|Bunchofgrapes]] ([[User talk:Bunchofgrapes|talk]]) 02:32, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

::As if third person weren't bad enough. The puppy doesn't believe a word of it. [[User:KillerChihuahua|KillerChihuahua]]^{[[User talk:KillerChihuahua|?!?]]} 02:32, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

:::I'm sorry, that should be, "The puppy identity" shouldn't it? [[User:KillerChihuahua|KillerChihuahua]]^{[[User talk:KillerChihuahua|?!?]]} 02:33, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

This was absolutely the funniest thing we have read in a long time. We are amused. We are troubled, however, as teachers, that our reader missed the "You are my best friend in real life" signed by our "Geogre" on our "Bishonen" user page and our "You are my best friend in real life" signed by our "Bishonen" on our "Geogre" user pages. We would like to remind our readers, as we acknowledge that they go by one name, while we go by two, that they should never miss the '''really, really, really, really obvious''' things before speculating on oddly illogical things. We manage the Atlantic Ocean and five time zones by magic which we shall not share. --[[User:Geogre|Queen Geoshonen & Prince Bishogre]]

[[Image:Anastasia.jpg|thumb|left|150px|Young Anastasia ([[User:Geogre]]).]] [[Image:Romanov91.jpg|thumb|right|150px|Adult Anastasia ([[User:Bishonen]]).]]

:You're also [[User:Pcpcpc|Pcpcpc]], his friend [[User:Oliver Chettle|Oliver]], and Oliver's niece and tenant [[User:Gillian Tipson|Gillian]] too, aren't you? It's all starting to unravel, <s>Bishogre</s> the Most Noble Bishogre (forgive me). Give it up, mate. [[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]] ^{<font color="Purple">[[User_talk:SlimVirgin|(talk)]]</font>} 03:54, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

::LOL. OK, Most Slim Mate. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 01:38, 23 January 2006 (UTC).

:::Actually, it's the Right Honourable Virgin to you, if you'll be so kind. [[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]] ^{<font color="Purple">[[User_talk:SlimVirgin|(talk)]]</font>} 01:47, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

::::Gotcha, Most Virginal Slimster. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 02:25, 23 January 2006 (UTC).

And the [[Lindbergh baby]] as well as [[Bruno Hauptmann]]. -- [[User:Geogre|Geogre inter al]]

:Some of the Geogres may be those people, but most of us are the [[Anna Anderson|Grand Duchess Anastasia of Russia]]. Don't we know anything? [[Grand Duchess Anastasia Nikolaevna of Russia|Anastasia Romanova]], 02:13, 18 January 2006 (UTC).

== Phalanx Articles ==

[[Phalanx (Fourierism)]] superseded by [[North American Phalanx]]. ==

Rectify [[Phalanx (Fourierism)]], doubleplus obsolete. doubleplusgood article [[North American Phalanx]] :-) [[User:84.160.213.98|84.160.213.98]] 02:16, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

:? Have you got the right BOFH? [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 02:25, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

::I have no idea who is on the clean up detail... You just happen to be one of my favorite +sysop users. [[User:84.160.213.98|84.160.213.98]] 03:17, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Thanks! :-) That's very flattering, but I'm sorry, I'm spread awfully thin as it is right now. Could you please ask someone else? [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 18:48, 17 January 2006 (UTC).

==Thank you for the heads up==

thanks for the heads up about the reformed troll. I hope the troll and I never cross paths again. I appreciate your efforts.[[User:Travb|Travb]] 03:46, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

::Once again, thank you for your diligent efforts.[[User:Travb|Travb]] 00:29, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Oh, it was my pleasure. I'll just go write a book about sexual wars now (what ''was'' that?). [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 00:56, 19 January 2006 (UTC).

== Help ==

Hello Bishonen, Need some help and not sure where to even start to look for it. I would like to add some information on the page for Tuscarawas County in Ohio. I am a Trustee for the Tuscarwas County Historical Society and would like to add a little bit of info about the organization. Can you help me? [[User:MarcusTCicero|MarcusTCicero]] 03:48, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

== A brainwave - I've got it! ==

I've just looked at your contributions history. This will not do. When are we going to have a new page of interest. All this policing the place is all very well, I am being begged, yes begged, to do so also, (''ALoan shut up'') but I have higher principals - we have an encyclopedia to write here [[Thomas Shadwell]] is very remiss and dull - did he shag well also? - only you can tell us. [[ Charles Sedley]]'s daughter was screwed by James II. [[Henry Killigrew]] is a very dull stub, but he was master of the Savoy, so obviously had a good bed (Know what I mean - wink wink!) I stayed there once - very smart [[art deco]] but the carpet was stained (I digress) but I see his brother [[Thomas Killigrew]] was very disolute -well that's encouraging - how disolute do you think I think it's about time you blew open the door on [[Buckingham palace]] and exposed the [[Master of the Revels]]. What do you think? [[ Sex in the Restoration city]]. I am quite happy to advise on the technical side of the page [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 20:47, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

:Thank you. I daresay Thomas Shadwell was a devil in the sack. There's no need for you to become an admin just to be able to delete pages, I'll be quite happy to delete ''all'' your ostentatious pages. --[[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 21:15, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

:This is a dilemma. I want to have good, reasonable people like Bishonen to police the place, rather than people who just like to exercise whatever little power they have. But I also think it is a waste when good writers don't get the time to write anymore. It is a systemic problem. Something has to be permanently done about the trolls and POV pushers to make them less of a drain of other people's energy. [[User:Tupsharru|Tupsharru]] 21:30, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

== [[User:Fighterforfreedom]] ==

Looks like he's up to some no-good. On [[Ward Churchill]] he has repeatedly reverted to a version prior to a page refactoring. His/her edit comments claim that this had something to do with a concern with POV; but the change is simply making one overly large page rather than two reasonable size ones. Both of the pages, on a controversial topic, definitely pose a POV quagmire, but this user doesn't even seem to be pushing any POV except that pages should be >32k in size via this particular edit. [[User:Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters|Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters]] 22:53, 17 January 2006 (UTC)

:Hi Bishonen. I actually don't care much at all about Fighterforfreedom's weird obsession with my sexual orientation that you warned him about. Of real concern to me is repeated "unfactoring" of the article. S/he's somehow got this obnoxious notion in her/his head that refactoring an article into proper sized siblings somehow comments on the "worth" of the topic (and he presumably thinks Churchill is "unworthy") rather than just on how many words the article(s) have. But I did some work in the refactoring (not huge, the general content was kept, but a few different sections were moved around, and lead in language adjusted a bit); it's really annoying to see it rolled back for something as idiotic as this (the POV-mongers who want to rail against Churchill are one thing... but this is just disruption for the sake of disruption itself). [[User:Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters|Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters]] 02:51, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

::I didn't really suppose you cared — it's just such appalling behavior. And it's easy to write him a note about, as opposed to getting my head round the notorious [[Ward Churchill]] editing. Sorry, right now I just have too many other distractions to take that on. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 02:57, 18 January 2006 (UTC).

:::Oh well. The refactoring issue is pretty simple, actually. A section on criticisms grew really large, so I split it off into [[Ward Churchill (misconduct allegations)]] with all the appropriate prominent links back and forth between parent and child. Actually, part of that is to try to isolate the POV-mongering to the latter article, so the parent can more straightforwardly say: "Churchill is an historian who wrote this bunch of books". Then the child/sibling can have all the publicized accusations. But quite apart from such content, it's really just a matter of size... the article was getting something like 60k before the split, just about evenly split between the main thing and the allegations. [[User:Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters|Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters]] 03:28, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

== re:Your advice to CBerlet on WP:ANI ==

My bad...not sure why I even suggested that to him. Thanks for pointing that out.--[[User:MONGO|MONGO]] 08:14, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

== Blocks ==

You know, I guess this is what happens when you fail to block people a lot: you don't get expertise on how to unblock. Last night, I simply could ''not'' get myself unblocked. I think everyone agrees that Kurps is a vandal who needs a big slap, but an indefinite block on an AOL proxy can hit the good folks. (Lately, the IP's I've been getting have ''all'' been used by vandals.) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 10:53, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

== Controversy! POV! OR! ==

[[Sarah Scott]]: You can't tell, I'm sure, that I have written "Are there any feminists in the Hall?: Sarah Scott's ''Millenium Hall'' and lesbian masking." You can level with me. It's too POV, isn't it? [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 18:27, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

(Wow. He took five bullets for Lulu in Iraq. I hope he gives them back, as stealing is wrong, and it was wrong of Lulu to ask him to steal those five bullets. ("If you've got a black list, I want to be on it." -- [[Billy Bragg]]) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 01:00, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

:For goodness' sake, you just up and ''wrote'' that? You're kidding. Geogre, I have to agree with the users who claim you're not one but many. The Geogre Cooperative^{<small><small>TM</small></small>} is a reality. It's a great article! Find a couple of piccies and two more references and it's ready for FAC. What a wild and crazy editor you are. :-) Oh, and yes, I think "pathological" is definitely POV. You just put that in to give me something to say, didn't you?

:(Just so I could write books about sexual wars, too. Maybe you'd like to ghost them for me, as you sound very into the subject? You know, it's amazing, but that's only the second "bitchonen" I've gotten in my time here. You'd ''think'' it would be pretty obvious, wouldn't you?) [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 01:43, 19 January 2006 (UTC).

::OK, I'll play bad cop: is the entire ==Lesbianism and feminism== section OR? Or do you have a source for this psychological treatment? (And why am I asking Geogre on Bishonen's page... oh, yeah, it's just Bishogre now, that's right.) &mdash;[[User:Bunchofgrapes|Bunchofgrapes]] ([[User talk:Bunchofgrapes|talk]]) 02:59, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

::I have to make do with [[Virgo Stellar Stream|obscure galaxies]] (in [[WP:DYK]] at the moment). Perhaps you should aim for [[WP:DYK]] and [[WP:FAC]] at the same time? ;) -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 03:20, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Sure, you ''say'' they're obscure galaxies, but we know the truth: Bigfoot comes from there. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 14:46, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Ok, let me answer the questions. Is it OR? Well, it doesn't ''say,'' quite. It does report from her novels, and it could be sourced in the novels (i.e. I could give quotes). At the same time, the ''DNB'' author addressed the lesbian question by saying that SS and Lady Bab loved each other and that the marriage was never consummated and that one possible reason for her getting pulled out of her husband's house was sex that she wouldn't do. So it's sorta kinda always sorta talked about, and all I did was report (yes, from my own reading) from her work. Yes, I have presented on ''Millenium Hall,'' but I haven't published on it, so I don't think it's one of those "you need a footnote to yourself" situations. I defy and dare anyone to read ''Millenium Hall'' and not get grossed out by it. There is such a profoundly unhealthy sublimation of desire going on there that I don't think the most devout ''or'' the most dedicated "outer" of ancient authors could approve of it. Melvin New gave a great paper, once, on the Will of God in ''Humphry Clinker'' and titled it "The Grease of God." Well, that's how grace works in ''Millenium Hall'': the miracle grease to make the plot go. (To be fair to myself, I've been waiting 2 years for someone else, someone maybe who likes SS, to write the article. I was going to write on Sedley, but I saw "Scott" in the DNB today and just figured that even an antagonistic article with full facts was better than no article at all, and perhaps I'll save someone two nights of misery with that novel.) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 04:22, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

:As for Mr. Unclean Marine, he's a real hoot. His sister is in the nineth grade. He won't be aloud to edit anymore. Wow. I suppose he's got anger issues, and I also suppose that he was not a front line soldier, and probably not a soldier at all. At least the few folks I've known who have been in combat have been kind of ''quiet'' about it. That whole run of obscenity was on the most primitive level -- really troglodytic -- and seemed about in keeping with someone in the "nineth" grade, and not a very bright someone in the ninth grade at that. The obsession with gay and straight, the belief that "bitch" is a zinger, it's all just ''primitive.'' [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 04:26, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

::Oh, and bish, I wrote ''two'' articles today. :-) The other was [[Leoba]]. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 04:26, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

Bishonen, if you want to see the utmost limit of illustration I can do for [[Sarah Scott]], look now. If there were other sources, it would be possible to FAC it, possibly, if some of the OR were de-fanged. At any rate, I found a picture of her sister (lotsa pictures, in fact, and I may make her my project for today, except that I so rarely venture past 1750) and ''one'' picture of the text. I feel iffy about copyright when I'm using someone's digital photo (copyright to the photo?), but there it is. You should look at the full sized book plate. It says all anyone needs to know about the novel. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 14:36, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

:Mmmm. I use those scans of the fronts of 17th-century books from the Early English Books Online as illustrations without a second thought, and their stuff from inside the books also, like the cast lists in ''[[The Relapse]]''. (Incidentally, about ''[[The Relapse]]'', talk about sinking without a trace — you didn't even link to it in [[Charlotte Charke]], and I sort of didn't even expect it, nobody ''can'' remember the poor thing.) The books are old, they're two-dimensional, the defence rests. That said, I do see what you mean about this one. It makes me feel a little iffy too. Not enough to want it gone, but ... it's not ''quite'' two-dimensional, it's recognizably a particular photo somebody took, it would look different in another photo taken by somebody else.

: Sources, other sources? I can't even believe what a lot of hits Questia has if you type in "Sarah Scott", and how solid they look. 51 academic books! Twenty-something articles in learned journals! An Oxford anthology with some of her poetry in it! ''Most'' of the books are no doubt partly/mainly about other writers, but still, there are sources. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 17:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC).

== User Bethefawn ==

It is wierd. I could almost wonder if he used someone else's name to make them look bad. By the way, I like the phrase "encyclopedic uselessness." [[User:Tom harrison|Tom Harrison]] ^{[[User talk:Tom harrison|Talk]]} 18:38, 18 January 2006 (UTC)

At first I didn't entirely understand what was going on, so I figured I'd err on the side of caution and keep the block short. I wasn't sure of the effect of blocking the IP vs blocking the username; I've heard people speak of the autoblocker, and I need to figure out how that works. I don't think the user understood what he was doing, found himself getting in deep, and at least had the sense to stop digging. Well, good for him; it puts him ahead of some others. [[User:Tom harrison|Tom Harrison]] ^{[[User talk:Tom harrison|Talk]]} 02:32, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

== Do you still care... ==

...about block evasions by Hollow Wilerding, or have you just gotten as tired of him/her as I have? A checkuser request was submitted earlier today for <span class="plainlinks">[[User:64.231.163.117|64.231.163.117]] ([[User talk:64.231.163.117|talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/64.231.163.117|contribs]] &bull; [{{fullurl:Special:Log/move|user={{{2|64.231.163.117}}}}} page moves] &bull; [[Special:Blockip/64.231.163.117|block user]] &bull; [{{fullurl:Special:Log/block|page=User:{{{2|64.231.163.117}}}}} block log])</span> and <span class="plainlinks">[[User:64.231.160.28 |64.231.160.28 ]] ([[User talk:64.231.160.28 |talk]] &bull; [[Special:Contributions/64.231.160.28 |contribs]] &bull; [{{fullurl:Special:Log/move|user={{{2|64.231.160.28 }}}}} page moves] &bull; [[Special:Blockip/64.231.160.28 |block user]] &bull; [{{fullurl:Special:Log/block|page=User:{{{2|64.231.160.28 }}}}} block log])</span> and it hasn't been responded to, but I think it's fairly obvious with whom we're dealing. --[[User:Keepsleeping|<font color="gray">keep</font>sleep<font color="gray">ing</font>]] [[User talk:Keepsleeping|<font color="green"><small>''quit your job!''</small></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Keepsleeping|<font color="green"><small>'''''slack off!'''''</small></font>]] 04:33, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

:Thanks very much, KS. I do care, and I think it's time for a [[WP:RFAR|request for arbitration]]. But I don't know how we're going to keep those IPs out, in this situation where Winnermario/HW obviously cares nothing for rehabilitating his/her tarnished identity and merely haunts wiki like a [[succubus]]. But that's me, I'm no tech, maybe there are ways and means. I hope Geogre will take care of this latest development. (Oops, forgot that I ''am'' Geogre, please see heading Sock-o-rama above.) [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 11:30, 19 January 2006 (UTC).

::My feeling is that popping this IP is sort of not here or there. However, if ArbCom goes forward, which I feel sure it will when the block ''finally'' expires (when the user ''finally'' stops resetting it by editing), then a good injunction will mean that ''anyone'' will be able to do a very quick block on any seeming HW. Since these are an ISP's IP's, we'd be dealing with probably :30 blocks. That ought to be enough to really frustrate anyone hanging up and redialing, so long as folks pay attention. Since HW reads this page habitually, let's go ahead and address "her." '''Stop evading the blocks. Let them expire, if you want to have any hope of editing without blocking.''' It's easy enough. Go check on Yahooligans or something. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 12:06, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

::As far as "keeping those IPs out", I suppose "her" articles (Majora's Mask, Luxurious, Hollaback Girl, etc.) could just be semi-protected, at least for a little while. And, as much as I hate the idea, maybe Majora's FAC needs to be semi-protected as well &mdash; HW is essentially editing the article by proxy through that page. --[[User:Keepsleeping|<font color="gray">keep</font>sleep<font color="gray">ing</font>]] [[User talk:Keepsleeping|<font color="green"><small>''quit your job!''</small></font>]] [[Special:Contributions/Keepsleeping|<font color="green"><small>'''''slack off!'''''</small></font>]] 13:02, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

== WP civility (or whatever it's called) ==

Kindly confine your edit summaries to the matter in hand, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Olga_Rudge&diff=35847646&oldid=35845957] and do not intone your own POV. Poor Ezra had a very difficult life, and now Fil has gone AWOL it is left to me to defend him. [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 22:31, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

:When I'm given such rich opportunities to despair, I ''will'' despair, in the edit summaries and out of the edit summaries, up hill, down dale, and twice round the gasworks. It's a very sweet page, tho'! Please take a look to see if you dislike the longer paragraphs, they're easily changed back. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 22:50, 19 January 2006 (UTC).

::*The paragraphs a fine - very fine thankyou - what a beautiful page it is now. With Sic Bar one of my favourites [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 18:12, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

== [[Talk:Río de la Plata]] ==

[[Río de la Plata]]? [[River Plate]]? As a disinterested admin, I wondered if you would care to grace us with a dispassionate view of the [[WP:RM]] debate. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 00:01, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

:Sorry, no, I wouldn't, I've been spreading far too many "views" across the wiki and need to get back to actually editing an article occasionally. Giano tells me it was years ago. Moreover I'm by no means disinterested here, as it's Río de la Plata in Swedish. :P That name is a rhyme word, even, in a song by [[Evert Taube]] that all real Swedes sing (hauntingly, hauntedly, [[Ingmar Bergman]]esquely) at their ritual August [[crayfish]] and [[vodka]] gatherings. You'll understand my predicament: I must recuse for patriotic reasons. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 13:17, 20 January 2006 (UTC).

::I think you may be pulling my leg about the August ritual, but I understand about not wanting to spread onesself too thin. I have asked on [[Wikipedia talk:Requested moves]]. Perhaps I should bother [[User:Violetriga|Violetriga]] too. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 13:28, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Me? Tupsharru, if you're watching, please back me up about the quasi-religious overtones of crayfish and [[Evert Taube]] songs (and strong liquor and, with reverence be it spoken, little paper hats) under the full August moon. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 13:58, 20 January 2006 (UTC).

::::Sure, I can confirm this. <small>(Let's keep quiet about the ritual devouring of [[Surströmming|rotten fish]], or they will never believe us.)</small> [[User:Tupsharru|Tupsharru]] 15:25, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::Hmm - with milk and "[[snaps]]"? Who on earth spells "[[aqua vitae]]" as "[[brännvin]]" - surely you mean "[[whisky]]" ;) -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 16:22, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

::Hey, ALoan, let's not mess with them with their August crawdad ceremonies. It's a major source of export income for Louisiana, Mississippi, and east Texas. (Cirrhously, they really do import vast quantities of crawdads from our picturesque states, having eat up all their own.) (As for the vodkha, I have Absolut-ly no idea where they get that.) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 14:26, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

:::I've found one source that claims that ''kräftskiva'' (crawfish parties) involve funny paper crawfish hats in addition to the drinking songs, but that's obviously a crazy hoax. &mdash;[[User:Bunchofgrapes|Bunchofgrapes]] ([[User talk:Bunchofgrapes|talk]]) 19:30, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::You found an anglophone source? Wow. [http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kr%C3%A4ftskiva This] is the cutting-edge domestic scholarship on the subject. Note the tasteful lantern, a classic accessory representing the Man in the Moon. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 20:42, 20 January 2006 (UTC).

::::::I'm so glad you asked, because the book's title is just priceless: ''Modern-Day Vikings: A Practical Guide to Interacting with the Swedes''. [http://books.google.com/books?ie=UTF-8&hl=en&vid=ISBN1877864889&id=MAn641nHfrYC&pg=PA123&lpg=PA123&dq=Surstromming&prev=http://books.google.com/books%3Fq%3DSurstromming&sig=oWoafW27dxJng1wni0KE-VbXw_U Google books] link to the ''kräftskiva'' and ''surstömming'' page. &mdash;[[User:Bunchofgrapes|Bunchofgrapes]] ([[User talk:Bunchofgrapes|talk]]) 20:47, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

::::Actually, Sweden doesn't really make vodka, only [[brännvin]] or [[aquavit]], but it is repackaged in fancy designer bottles and called "vodka" in order to sell it to Americans. [[User:Tupsharru|Tupsharru]] 15:25, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

:::The juice of the [[potato]] ([[potatoe]] for the [[Dan Quayle|hard of spelling]]). [[Carmencita]], eh?

::::''Samborombon, en liten by förutan gata, den ligger inte långt från Rio de la Plata, nästan i kanten av den blåa Atlanten och med Pampas bakom sig i många hundra gröna mil, dit kom jag ridande en afton i april, för jag ville dansa tango.'' [http://www.everttaube.info/index.php?id=96&lang=en]

:::The only Scandinavian drinking song I know (in the original, thus dicounting that [[ABBA|70s]] band or the [[A-Ha|80s]] one) is [[Denmark|Danish]] one about sailing down a stream and sailing back up it again. Unfortunately, I am functionally illiterate in languages with lots of øðÐ łėţťəřş - I only know the words, not how to write them. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 14:42, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

::::Well drown me in a vat of Absolut and call me Shirley, was that ''you'' quoting "Carmencita", ALoan? I thought at first that bit had to come from Tups. I'm most impressed. Please come tango with me! [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 15:36, 20 January 2006 (UTC).

:::::Oh, I ''will'' "dansa [[tango (dance)|tango]]" (quick quick slow). [[Argentine Tango]], or [[ballroom dance|ballroom]]? -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 16:09, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

::::::There is also the [[Finnish Tango]], which still lacks an article on the English Wikipedia (another scandalous omission!). [[User:Tupsharru|Tupsharru]] 21:00, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

::Q. How can you tell a Finnish extrovert?

::A. He stares at ''your'' shoes. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 12:40, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

== Thanks for unblocking me :) ==

I appreciate you unblocking me that was very kind of you. :)

: I see you got blocked again[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=block&user=&page=User%3A70.248.125.230]. I've [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Jossi&diff=35914436&oldid=35870443 asked] the blocking administrator about it. (I'll be logging off now.) [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 05:07, 20 January 2006 (UTC).

== "Globe of Frogs" ==

Your current mood reminds me of that Robyn Hitchcock and the Egyptians record, and a good record it is, too. Now, what to research... what to research... saint of the day, no doubt, but what unbiographed figure? [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 13:58, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

:Let's see.... [[Saint Sebastian]], [[Fabian]] or [[Saint Fabian]], [[Euthymus]], [[Desiderius]], [[Saint Agnes]], [[Meinrad]], [[Epiphanius]], those are the saints of the day. A random search through a literary encyclopedia landed on [[John Marston]], and our article on him is hilariously bad, and then you and I would both like to see someone write a bio of [[Charlotte Charke]] (and that way, I can stay on my "suspected lesbians of the 18th century" theme, '''and''' you can refer to her in your Colley article). [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 14:16, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

:::'''Aiigh!''' Look at the article on [[Charlotte Charke]] before I change it. Ugh! There ought to be a law! [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 14:18, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

::::''"By assuming a male identity and going under the name of Charles Brown, she was harder to find."'' [[Charlie Brown]] is actually a female in drag? Who would have thought ''that''? [[User:Tupsharru|Tupsharru]] 15:59, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

::OMG, he's in turbogeogre mode (/me runs for cover). Bravo on Charlotte, I came >''this''< close to fixing her up when I was dilly-dallying with Kolli. She needs it all right. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 15:18, 20 January 2006 (UTC).

:Alright, I'm going to fix Marston now, Charke tonight. Maybe I'll do Charke this afternoon, but probably tonight. I've done the research on both. At any rate, Charlie Brown is kind of lumpy -- that's because he's really a pregnant woman. Besides, I've always thought that [[Gertrude Stein]] began to look like Charlie Brown after a while. (The Charke article is no article at all. That kind of thing is simply a disgrace. The Marston article is also not an article, but in a different way. One is a blob of text from someone's paper for a class, and the other is a headnote from someone's anthology.) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 16:50, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

:[[Charles Brown (disambiguation)]] -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 17:00, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

Blug. The ''DNB'' doesn't mention a first name for her male persona, but "Charles" makes sense for a "Charlotte." At any rate, I'm now done with [[John Marston]]. Charke is next. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 17:28, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Addendum: I've decided, due to my own stomach complaints just now, to take the notes for Charke home, write it up, and then rewrite it. Basically, I want to be sure I'm far distanced from the ''DNB'' entry, which is somewhat illogically presented. If I follow from my notes and write it at a first draft, I'll avoid wording similarities, of course (no plagiarist, I), but I'd be locked into the misplaced presentation of facts that the DNB author has. (The short version: everything comes from her autobiography.) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 17:42, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

::::There are a [http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&q=%22charlotte+charke%22&meta= surprisingly large] number of websites, if it helps, including some which claim to be biographies. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 18:17, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::Mhm, and there's [http://www.nwe.ufl.edu/~pcraddoc/biogstext.html#Charke one actually useful one], too, with good-looking possibly Questia-able references. I've been keeping this one bookmarked. Excellent work on [[Leoba]]! [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 19:20, 20 January 2006 (UTC).

::::::EEK! Our article (from NOVEMBER last) is essentially a copyvio from one paragraph from that (which explains the spelling and grammar, but lack of context). -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 19:52, 20 January 2006 (UTC)

(And now here's our buddy back. Reverting edit. More later.)

I was trying to get rid of that copyvio, but I was blocked for having my ISP owned by AOL. It wasn't worth bothering, as no one on IRC other than Bishonen would even try to help. <sigh> Bish, 3:00 is fine. I may even have done the Charke article by then. It seems strange to me that people didn't list that article on AfD or CSD. I mean, seriously: forget the fact that it's a copyvio. It's a paragraph out of something longer obviously. It's not encyclopedic, doesn't establish context, doesn't explain the subject whatsoever, and ''then'' it's copyvio. A substub saying, "Daughter of Colley Cibber and notorious transvestite" would have been better. People delete far, far, far too little, believing "it's good enough." Well, no it isn't, and no, we can't go walking around with our pants down until someone somewhere makes a belt for us. "Eventually" someone will give us a belt, and until then we'll walk around showing our arses. (Gosh, I'm in a good mood.) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 04:11, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

*[[Charlotte Charke]] is done. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 19:04, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

*Thanks for the picture. It's lovely. I think your saying something about how minor her roles were, or what they tell us about either the image of the character or the actress, would be wonderful. The only ''caveat'' I can think of is that, when she appeared in Colley's plays, she was really, really, really young. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 23:46, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

:*Sure, gladly. You mention one "tomboy" role: Hoyden in ''[[The Relapse]]''. But to do it right, I should get the relevant volumes of the ''London Stage'' from the library, so it may be a few days. Btw, one detail: what do you (what does your source) mean by Colley selling his share of Drury Lane to Highmore "instead of" to Theophilus or Charlotte? That he was mean to his kids? That wasn't it; Colley and Theo were most likely in cahoots to swindle Highmore. They were little better than crooks, really. See the True Story at [[Colley Cibber]], section "Cibber as manager". I suppose it's only tenuously relevant to Charlotte in any case? Shall I remove it, or do you have detail to contextualize it? [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 02:09, 22 January 2006 (UTC).

:**I'd rather contextualize it, as "daddy hates me, and my brother is a shit" is a major part of her story. She thought, apparently, that she and Theo should have kept the theater and rolled merrily along. Remember that she was young and despised by those two, so she probably didn't know about the swindle. I can do the contextualizing pretty easily, in fact. The source's shock that she got nothing is a sign that that's how it's presented in the ''Narrative'' (since that's really the only source she used), and ''that'' is a sign of just how out of the loop Charlotte was. I suspect that a more sensitive reader of the ''Narrative'' could pick out quite a few things that the DNB author may have missed. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 03:35, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

== Unblock pwease! ==

Why woundn't you unblock me? : ( Can I be an administrator too?

:Look, we're nice, we assume good faith; it's not the same thing as being dumb. You lied to me. Now just sit out the block, create a new name account when you return, and edit constructively from it, ''without'' sockpuppets. Then you'll be fine. You have to be more used to the place before you can be an admin, but I don't see why not, in a few months' time. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 00:16, 21 January 2006 (UTC).

::Too nice, sometimes - I suspected the second was a sock of the first, but told it not to do it again or risk being blocked. I even gave the third a second chance, but it blew it. I'll block all three indefinitely. Perhaps we should block the IP too - all it seems to do is vandalise... -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 00:28, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

:::The deceit and taking advantage of us (me) was the worst thing; the vandalism isn't exactly egregious. But since the IP is capable of posting on my page, I'll block it for 24 hours. It ''seems'' static, since the person is so keen to get it unblocked, but I'm not sure it really is. Blocking an IP indefinitely is kind of hair-raising. And maybe the keenness to become an admin can be channelled into editing virtuously from a new account, like I suggest above? Let's give it a chance, anyway. It'll be easy to block it later, if necessary. (And you may fall down and worship me at your leisure for using niceness to ferret out the facts. ;P ) [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 00:40, 21 January 2006 (UTC).

::::The long history of vandalism warnings on that user page is the worst thing for me. Why do we put up with it?

:::::Oh, because vandals can so easily hop to another IP when blocked anyway? (Though it's a stupid thing to do if they want to become an admin.) I just realized the message above came from a different IP in the same range. I may have the last static IP on wiki. :-( [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 01:31, 21 January 2006 (UTC).

::::::I tremble before you, oh terrible nice one. ;) -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 01:16, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::::Well, I hope so. I have just become important enough to have [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Bishonen1&diff=prev&oldid=36025631 my first impostor] ! [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 01:31, 21 January 2006 (UTC).

::::::::Wow, you really get quite a bunch of impostors now. I'm impressed! [[User:Tupsharru|Tupsharru]] 21:44, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::Hmm..? I do? Where are they? [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 16:30, 23 January 2006 (UTC).

::::::::::[[User:BoyShonen|BoyShonen]], who was promptly [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Bishonen&diff=36266241&oldid=36261837 reverted] and then indefinitely [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&type=block&page=User%3ABoyShonen blocked] by [[User:Bunchofgrapes|Bunchofgrapes]]. [[User:Tupsharru|Tupsharru]] 16:44, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::::::Oh, right, BoyShonen and ShonenBiy, indeed. Very scary (not). I'd forgotten all about those guys. I'd as soon live in fear of the notorious socks [[User:Geogre|Geoshonen]] and [[User:Bishonen|Bishogre]], I guess. :P Or that object of dread, the strange elusive Bishonen,[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User:Plugwash&diff=prev&oldid=36361644] who has appeared a few times round the place. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 20:01, 23 January 2006 (UTC).

Meanwhile, no one unblocks me. Oh, no. With all the f*cking vandals hopping AOL and the admins not checking the chart, I end up blocked every night. And, on IRC, "boo hoo for the AOLLers." Yeah, well, when I'm rich, I can sneer at the AOLamers, too. Until then, I have to use the least expensive ISP there is, and that's Netscape, and that's owned by AOL, and so, instead of my reversing copyvio and writing an article tonight, I sit blocked. Yeah, this is worthwhile. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 04:07, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

:Geogre, sorry you got all that. :-( I suggest you copy and study [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:WBardwin&diff=prev&oldid=34900809this this message], with tips from JRM to WBardwin, and keep it available for next time. Being yourself both the blocked user and the admin with unblock powers should help. The thing to bear in mind is that nobody other than the blocked user sees the same, very complete, block message; if you get blocked, only you are told what the IP is. The IP helps a lot if the original blockee was an anon, not at all if he/she wasn't. Anyway, the point is, in your double role, you get the optimal info, better than other admins. I hope the link helps. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 13:52, 21 January 2006 (UTC).

::There was '''one'' piece of advice that was worthwhile in all that. Block one's own IP with a time of zero. Other than that, JRM is wrong. When you know the IP blocked, you ''still'' don't get to see which IP was autoblocked. If my block says that IP 217.75.83.2 was blocked, the block log will not show that address, no matter. It will only show "block 8455" and "block 8456." That's that. I'm not at all happy with the industriousness of my fellow admins on IRC. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 14:53, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

:::? No, we're not communicating here. I know the block log looks the same for everybody, and so does JRM. What I tried to say was that you do get told the IP in your own ''block message'' — not in the log — the message that appears at the fateful moment of blocking. To have that info will help if the original blockee was anonymous: you can search the log for the IP, and if he ''was'' anonymous, you will find the original block. It will not help if the blockee was a name account. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 17:04, 21 January 2006 (UTC).

::They haven't been IP's. If they were IP's, I'd have been able to unblock myself without any hassle. Instead, they were all named. That's also why the blockers didn't realize they were blocking AOL addresses. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 18:55, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

:Just seeing if it works [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 12:49, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

::Thanks for reading my mind, G! I was just going to ask you to do that. So, apparently semiprotection works like it's supposed to, despite the text warning you that "only administrators can edit". Excellent. I believe it stops only anons + accounts less than four days old. Perfect, that should give some recent "friends" of mine a nice rest from the compulsive urge to blank this page and other pranks. (Look at the history before I semi-p'd, and at all the nice people reverting — thanks, guys!). [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 13:52, 21 January 2006 (UTC).

Oh that is clever isn't it, but won't they just be able to edit you on Wednesdday just the same. Thank you for the compliment nominating dear [[Olga Rudge|Olga]] - "Quelle surprise!", I'm sure she appreciates it the honour. I was thinking this new confangled way of locking a page would be a good idea for the main page wouldn't it? [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 13:59, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

:You mean the Featured article of the day, right? There's a discussion about that on [[WP:ANI]], under the heading "Semi-protection of featured articles". You can weigh in, but it's better to start a new thread at the bottom of the page, because nobody looks at the topics that have travelled up to the middle of the page anyway (in my experience). I think semi-p for the FA is pointless myself, per [[User:Sam Korn|Sam Korn]]'s argument: semi-protection in that case comes to the same as full protection, so I'd rather protect either fully or not at all. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 14:15, 21 January 2006 (UTC).

::No, I shan't weigh in, I'm tired of fighting losing battles, I've got three big pages all unfinished at the moment, I suppose I had better try and finish one of them instead, I've rather lost interest in two of them, I don't suppose you want to finish one do you? [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 14:26, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

:::As attractive as you make it sound, no, I ''don't'' want to finish your leftovers. I've got one of my own in mind. At least drafting one article will keep me harmlessly off the streets for months on end, unlike you and crazy TurboGeogre. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 14:39, 21 January 2006 (UTC).

::::*What's it about - has it got lots of gratuitous things? I'm thinkink of expanding my own wikipedia entry, but I suppose that would be vanity, I'm bored at the moment, all alone and nothing to do, well lots to do but nothing I want to do....Oh dull Saturday afternoon [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 14:45, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

I am in such awe of you people - you actually write good articles on interesting topics. The best I can hope for it to write a stub on something unintersting, or expand or copyedit something someone else has done. :( -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 16:12, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

::OK ALoan you can finish William Wardell for me it's here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Giano/Sandbox] a thrill a minute he is. You have written lots of interesting pages, I was only looking at some of them the other day. Anyhow, looking at the attention poor old Olga is getting you are the only one who thinks she is interesting - now runalong and add some new fascinating facts to Mr Wardell. [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 16:54, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

:Copyedit, ALoan? Ha. Misdirections. You're trying to keep me from noticing [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Bulbasaur&diff=36100489&oldid=36062244 this], aren't you? Fancy footwork, tango guy. ([[Bulbasaur]] has changed a bit since I copyedited it.) [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 17:06, 21 January 2006 (UTC).

::* Gosh! Bulbasaur that's intersting - what's fish soup called then? [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 17:07, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

::::[[Waterzooi]]? -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 18:27, 21 January 2006 (UTC)

== Hi Back ==

I do think I've done anything to deserve that last hate filled commentary. I am an American Indian (at least 60%) and being a student of the "old ways" makes me happy. As of today I'm turning all of this over to Grandfather, my Guardians, and the ancestors. I shall let them deal with this in their ways.

Thank you for your support and understanding. --[[User:Bumpusmills1|Kith and Kin]] 15:40, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

== Replied! ==

I mailed the info you wanted hope it helps [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 18:35, 22 January 2006 (UTC)

== Yet Another ==

[[Ann Cargill]], whom I found by serrendipity in the ''DNB,'' was a child star who had a tragic death in 1784. Did you know about the fully trans-gendered ''The Beggar's Opera?'' I imagine such things were done long before. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 17:10, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

:Wow, what a lot of lovers and scandals in that short life, and it doesn't seem to have worried anybody, in the great era of primness and middle-class virtue! The fans don't mind at all. No, the notion of a transgendered show is quite new to me. Quel raffinement, in fact a little revolting, somehow. I'm betting they lingered on the love scenes. All women's companies now, OTOH, I've heard of those. Not maybe inside city limits — too much of a sideshow? — but outside London, at the summer fairs, or strolling. Sort of corresponding to the children's companies in Shakespeare's time. (Those are mentioned in ''Hamlet''.) I don't know where I've read about the women's companies, but I'm pretty sure they were around from the late 17th century. Or ''in'' the late 17th century, at least. Such ventures could easily have gotten shut down as being fronts for prostitution, or closed by popular outrage, or the performances could have been fucked up by disruptive users ... er, I mean spectators. A vulnerable kind of undertaking. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 17:58, 23 January 2006 (UTC).

::So that really '''is''' a children's company that [[John Marston]] wrote for and managed? Wow. How absolutely weird. Oh, and [[Henry Carey]] has now gotten a full going-over. (Cf the before and after links between the "inuse" edit summary.) Cargill's story seemed to be absolutely ''perfect'' for emerging Romanticism, and particularly its love of beautiful corpses. (Poe's dead female child excepted.) They were hot for how hot she was, and they expect some misbehavior from their wild child beauties, but then her death was simply too perfect for an age that would soon get to fall in love with a dead Chatterton. That revolting Romantic obsession with trembling dead folks was already begun, I think. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 18:26, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

== Re: Hi, Abe ==

You're welcome. They wasted their last vandal edit on a sad little splat on my talk page. I almost regretted blocking them for that, but in this case, I felt an empty threat would be counterproductive. –[[User:Adashiel|Abe Dashiell]] ^{'''([[User_talk:Adashiel|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Adashiel|c]])'''} 18:57, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

==A small favor==

May I ask a small favor?

[[Barter Theater]] needs to be moved by an admin to Barter Theatre as the official name uses the "re" spelling. Thanks! [[User:Ganymead|''*Exeunt*'' Ganymead]] | [[User talk:Ganymead|Dialogue?]] 22:44, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

:Why delete it? It's a perfectly logical page to turn into a redirect, since people might make the same theater/theatre mistake while looking for the page. I've turned it into a redirect. &mdash;[[User:Bunchofgrapes|Bunchofgrapes]] ([[User talk:Bunchofgrapes|talk]]) 23:01, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

::I'm not intending to delete Barter Theater as someone proposed on the talk page. It should be kept as a redirect while the article should move to Barter Theatre which is currently a redirect. [[User:Ganymead|''*Exeunt*'' Ganymead]] | [[User talk:Ganymead|Dialogue?]] 02:32, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I just looked and realized that in fact there were two articles, doh! Thanks for your help Grapes, you are always most helpful! [[User:Ganymead|''*Exeunt*'' Ganymead]] | [[User talk:Ganymead|Dialogue?]] 02:36, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

== Vroom vroom..... ==

You know I said you needed a new article to write, well I have found one for you. I just happened to be glancing absent mindedly at [[Portal:Architecture]] as one does - where Sic Bar just happens to be their selected article, and what do you think I found? - a list of articles that need writing, and I found this little gem for you - lots of interesting research I should imagine, and just think of the thrill when you locate a new one, we could all join in with our local ones to help you out - I knew you'd be keen so here it is [[List of European bus stations by size]] and just to start you off someone has kindly added " (second in Preston, UK with 79 gates) ". Well there's a flying start for you. I would help you myself, I believe there is quite a big one somewhere in Palermo, but of course I always take a Taxi. Much love and good luck [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 23:16, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

*Totally POV! Preston.... That author is saying that England is in Europe, which means it's more Labour Party propaganda. Revert 'em, Giano. :-) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 23:35, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

::*Ah but Bishonen could make the article metaphoric "Preston as the gateway to Europe" Then rich Americans like you and BoG could fly to Preston instead of Venezia and revitalize the British economy by busing through Europe from Preston - not forgetting the sites of [[Preston Plucknett]] itself. I can see the 1950s style travel posters now Bishonen driving her bus dressed as a Viking, you with your gun in the back, BoG with his cheese and HW screaming to be allowed in from the roof-rack. [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 23:48, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

::*"But HW, we said we'd give you the boot, didn't we? You just have to get in there." [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 23:51, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

:::*I'll just stay aloof for a few minutes more and you guys will have it all written between you, I'm sure. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 23:52, 23 January 2006 (UTC).

::::* There won't be room in the boot because my goats have to go somewhere - and they would not like sharing with HW! [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 23:54, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

* I'm surprised you need to have your page protected when this is how ungrateful you are when people come here with interesting oportunities for you. No please don't reply, I'm going to bed! [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 23:57, 23 January 2006 (UTC)

:* I love goat cheese, too! So much. So, so much love. Love for goat cheese. Thanks! [[User:El C|El_C]] 02:03, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

== Geogre's page ==

I'm not sure if I made a hash of it myself, or if it was our simultaneous work, but in either case, it's not better yet. I'll let you handle it from here. &mdash;[[User:Bunchofgrapes|Bunchofgrapes]] ([[User talk:Bunchofgrapes|talk]]) 04:08, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:Of course you didn't; too many cooks, that's all.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=delete&user=&page=User+talk%3AGeogre]. Then after you'd stepped aside I undeleted once more, only to stare in horror at the version with only Chick's post on it. (Until I realized the history was — of course — right there. Life is so much more exciting when you're a little slow in the head. :-)) [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 04:37, 24 January 2006 (UTC).

::Yeah, between you, me, Chick, and - lest we forget - the vandal, we really had it in for poor Geogre's poor page. I have no idea how long I'll need to be an admin before I really understand moving and undeleting. I suppose if I really wanted to get there, I'd roll up my sleeves and dig in at [[WP:RM]] or something. Fortunately for me, I'm too lazy. &mdash;[[User:Bunchofgrapes|Bunchofgrapes]] ([[User talk:Bunchofgrapes|talk]]) 04:47, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Brrrr, [[WP:RM]]. A little while back I had great plans for going through their backlog like a dose of salts — how long could it possibly take? say an hour? — but it turns out there's a reason they're backlogged. At least four of the five moves I actually performed — truly requested moves, with perfect consensus, mind you — led to the most ghastly complications, with people getting back to me from all over the place. "No, that wasn't what we meant — no, now you've overwritten a completely different page that had just been created at that ___location — now you've gotten entangled with a different move someone else was doing — no, not like that — no, please spend all tomorrow unmoving and undeleting and writing dab pages — no — no — no." I ain't ''never'' going back there. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 05:06, 24 January 2006 (UTC).

::::OK, now I'm both lazy ''and'' frightened. Good job. &mdash;[[User:Bunchofgrapes|Bunchofgrapes]] ([[User talk:Bunchofgrapes|talk]]) 05:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:::::Oh, I used to get stuck in there, at least for the easy ones, but it takes more time than you expect. And look at the kerfuffle at [[Talk:Río de la Plata]] arising from the move I made to [[River Plate]] over a year ago. Some people think we should use Spanish names because it is in Latin America ([[Mockba]]? [[Roma]]?) despite River Plate being the common English usage since at least [[Francis Drake]] visited it. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 12:20, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

* Morning! Well it looks like it's been an exiting night for you all - is Geogre still with us? Thanks for the thread, very sad case. I wonder if he is any relation to "Combattentedilibertà " - he was on interesting chap, it was when I was with the [[Bersaglieri]], (I must find you a photograph). Well there I was, knew no fear.................zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 08:11, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

Thanks, y'all. This is what I get for unblocking an AOL vandal. No good deed goes unpunished. And blocked users wonder why we turn our deaf ears when they start saying that they've changed their spots, turned over their leaves, and only want to help Wikipedia. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 11:45, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:Oh, and Bishonen, [[Laetitia Pilkington]] is red. She's ''red!'' I must fix that. :-) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 11:56, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

== FACs and all that ==

Do you think the answer to a question here it true [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia%3AFeatured_article_candidates%2FCult_film&diff=36389714&oldid=36369711] I don't know - I just don't seem to be able to keep up with it all these days! Nobody ever used to bother to look at peer review - I certainly never have. [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 09:19, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:Funny you should ask, I was just thinking of writing something on the FAC talkpage about the recent rash of "Object, didn't go through Peer Review yet", as if PR was suddenly ''obligatory'' before FAC. That's an interesting pseudo-statistic you link to; no, I don't think it's true at all, it's just stated with great confidence and chimes in with the new orthodoxy, and therefore people will believe it. "Very very few", eh? I suppose I'll have to compile some real statistics (groan) to refute that. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 11:38, 24 January 2006 (UTC).

:While y'all are at it, could you stop those *ssholes from swearing (and swearing at) every nomination that inline citations are '''required'''? That's insane. If they are, I won't go through FAC anymore. I hate inline citations -- both reading them and writing them. They make a page impossible to edit, as the whole thing gets infinitely fragile. Wikipedia is the encyclopedia anyone can edit -- unless it's an FAC, and then all the notes go kerflewy the moment you try. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 11:47, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:::*I'm getting very confused too there. I know I've said it before, but I think this one really will be the last, all those bloody silly little numbers took longer to organize than the page did to write. One almost has to produce a scanned birth certificate before writing "He was born {{Ref|OMG}}". None of my FAs have ever been to peer review - so I suppose thay are all headed for FARC sooner or later as that will be the "required rule" for those never PRd or inlined [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 12:30, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

#{{Note|OMG}} British Registry Office. Volume 3467A Page 759403221. Line 364973.

::::Geogre, when you say "inline citations," do you mean footnotes? I'm assuming you do because they're the ones that make pages fragile (and I agree with you for that reason: I can't stand them either). But they're not required at all. [[WP:CITE]] is the relevant guideline, and it says footnotes, [[Harvard referencing]], or embedded links are fine (and in fact embedded links are preferred), so long as they're accompanied by a full citation in the Notes section if footnotes are used, or in the References section if Harvard references or embedded links are used. And you don't have to use any of the strange references templates either, which can also cause problems if citations are later added or removed. [[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]] ^{<font color="Purple">[[User_talk:SlimVirgin|(talk)]]</font>} 12:36, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

::SlimVirgin, take a look at FAC just now. You will see every objector there, pretty much, saying, "Does not have inline citations, which are a requirement of all FA's." There was a camp, a few months ago, that began this absurd campaign. They liked little fragile numbers. We academic types were fighting them, tooth and nail. However, in one of those lovely little gaps, all of us seemed to turn our heads at the same minute, and now, it appears, "inline citations are a requirement of all Featured Articles." Given that Tony1 had a predilection for rewriting the FA guidelines without talking to anyone about it, I wouldn't be surprised if they changed the language and are now taking the "huh? no, it's always been that way" line. People who fight nationalist battles on a global encycloopedia, people who fight about categories with no articles in them, people who fight for boxes that must be everywhere, and people who fight over this MoS vs. that, always, always moving toward fewer choices and never toward more, always moving toward being Right and having the Truth, are an annoyance to me even more than they are a mystery to me. I have neither the patience nor the good will left to play with them. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 13:34, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:::[[WP:WIAFA]] was edited about, oh, eighteen months ago[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:What_is_a_featured_article&diff=5800732&oldid=5800718] to say that references were desirable where appropriate. Over time, this was hardened to make them mandatory (no bad thing, I guess).

:::Similarly, about a year ago[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:What_is_a_featured_article&diff=10049689&oldid=10021496], a requirement was added to say that inline references were desirable (something like "enhanced with the use of inline ctations, where appropriate"). Again, over time, this has hardened to make inline references mandatory for pretty much any statement in a FAC (there is an explicit recognition somewhere - [[WP:CITE]]? - that any format is acceptable, although I have to say I am in the process of being converted by the &lt;ref> thing).

:::I have raised the evolution point more than once on the relevant talk pages - yes, if you are contradicting widely-held knowledge, it makes sense to attribute your statement; but "the sky is blue (ref:look up)" is just daft, to me. And I think all those little numbers make the blasted encyclopedia harder to read, which is surely the most important thing. Look at [[Saffron]], which is pretty much the epitome of citing anything that moves - 75 footnotes on a crocus! I still think it is a nice article, mind). -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 14:00, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:I think the new &lt;ref> thing is pretty robust: I've just tried it out on [[Nobel Prize]] and it was far easier than the old {{tl|ref}} thing. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 13:32, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

::Yes, I agree with ALoan, the new "ref" is robust and is ''much'' easier to use than the one you've got, Giano — I fully expect Bunchofgrapes to weigh in and say the same at any moment, he introduced those notes at [[Erik Beckjord]] and seemed to suppose, in a moment of mad optimism, than even [[User:Beckjord]], who can't format a <nowiki>==heading==</nowiki> would be able to use them — well, anyway, they're easy for ''most'' people. Guys, just take a look at [[Nobel Prize]] and [[Erik Beckjord]] in edit mode, I think you'll be pleasantly surprised. But, now then, Ge-Ogre! I can't believe you're asking ''other people'' — me! — to stop the *ssholes. Do please weigh in on [[Wikipedia talk:Featured article candidates|talk FAC]], at "References — the new witch hunt". You know you can grab that hammer and have the opposition on the run with your thunder ten times over while I compose the first sentence of my upcoming masterpiece "Peer Review requirement — the new new witch hunt?". [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen, grabbing the peashooter]], 14:09, 24 January 2006 (UTC).

:::Oh, uh, I see I have to weigh in. I am afraid I am one of those uncouth supporters of footnoting our articles liberally if they have more than one reference. This isn't a normal encyclopedia, where there's some reason to trust that the author isn't just making stuff up. Having as direct a beeline as possible from asserted-fact to place-the-fact-is-from is important for the integrity of the encyclopedia. I have nothing against Harvard referencing, either, but I think footnotes make for slightly less distraction. Embedded links, like Slim prefers, I don't like - mostly because you can't make an embedded link to, oh, say, a book. If you want to cite some books and some web sites, then, you have to start mixing citation styles in the article, which is awful... I used to use embedded links as I was working on "rough drafts", then convert them to footnotes all at once, but that was before <nowiki><ref></nowiki> made it just as easy to make it a footnote to begin with. I find the <nowiki><ref></nowiki> style quite easy to work with, but I acknowledge it does nothing help sway those who dislike footnotes for stylistic reasons. &mdash;[[User:Bunchofgrapes|Bunchofgrapes]] ([[User talk:Bunchofgrapes|talk]]) 15:51, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

*Well I completely agree with Geogre, it's now almost impossible to write a decent length article, that reads. Logic and common sense seems to have gone out of the window, and been replaced by increasing rules, regulations and bureaucracy, which is barely understood by the fools who invented it. Pop singers and football players younger than 30 who have never achieved an intelligent thought or action in their unlived lives become FA biographies, because their limited and few achievements are recorded on easy to read and link to web-sites, which cover up the lack of proper references. What happens when the websites disappear. God only knows. The whole FAC thing is going to pot, led mostly by people who have never written one. And as for refer to peer review don't tempt me! [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 14:19, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Shrug - I asked for [[WP:PR|peer review]] of [[Iron Cross]] and got lots of constructive comments. Perhaps the [[WP:FAC]] regulars, like you, Giano, do not need it, but many people slave over the apple of their eye for weeks and end up with something that will ''never'' passs FAC, however good they think it is. Other people (such as, Emsworth, say, or Worldtraveller) produce work that punches all the buttons and scarecly hits the sides (as it were) on the way to [[WP:FA]]. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 14:27, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

::ALoan, I think what Giano and I are objecting to is certainly not citation, nor Peer Review, but "This is a requirement. You must use this style. You must go to PR." The point is not whether inline citations are inherently bad or not (I don't like them: as John Barrymore said, reading a footnote is like running downstairs to answer the doorbell on the first night of marriage) (I believe notes are good as ''notes,'' when there is an emendation or annotation to make that carries verbiage), but that there are now people who vote and lodge objections over "You Must Do As We Say," when what they say is altogether not supported by citation elsewhere or previous practice nor guaranteed to produce useful help. I love getting help on my articles, but I've also seen the most useless stuff in "objections" before, and things like "cite the fact that she was a good musician in the lead" is just plain silly (concert musicians kind of ''have'' to be good musicians). [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 15:02, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Oh, I almost replied to that facile objection with exactly that response: she was a concert violinist for years, people paid good money to see her; given that she could presumably play moderately well, perhaps she had ''some'' musical talent (or perhaps, given she was a girl, it was just lots of hard work).

*well the twit is back again seems to want her deleted as non-notable now - I despair - someone go and tell him - I shall only be too rude as usual. [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 16:32, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

**Oh - I was politely rude before I read this. I still think a period of [[WP:PR]] would help, if only because I hope [[User:Filiocht|Filiocht]] may come back and burnish its brilliance. (Where is our new Arbitrator? He has been away for weeks. I hope he is OK. Has anyone been checking the obituaries?) -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 17:06, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:::Anyway, as an antidote to all the recent arty types, I have been having fun turning [[Virgo Stellar Stream]] into a gem of a tiny science article - with copious footnotes :) Other than the published scientific articles, and newspapers that parroted the press release, this is probably the ''only'' article on the topic. [[WP:FAC]], anyone? -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 15:18, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

*'''Well!''' it don't look like Filiocht is going to stroll backinto the manner duzzit? So you kids had better get used to looking at me as the natural successor to the Ezra Pound legend - and you won't find me az nice an tolerant as him so get wize, get real and letz have some action in this place - now I'm juz off to [[Pelham Bay]] to hire some help, an if I waz you ALoan I'd forget PR unless it stands for Pro-Rudge. Now letz hav some action here! [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 22:35, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

**'''Pisano!''' See you at the social club. We can then go to the gentlemen's club to discuss ''that thing'' and whether we got enough, you know, bullets and stuff for ''that thing.'' (Actual mob wiretap intercept. A guy was being coy by referring to "that thing," and the other guy said that, no, that thing wasn't taken care of, because he hadn't gotten bullets for it yet.) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 03:24, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

*** Yep all of that, the rest are gonna learn some respect. And another thing from now the peotry round here is gonna rhyme, no more is this Filiocht fancy meaningless stuff, more proper peotry is needed for those kids over on FAC - "roses are blue, violets are red" kinda stuff - givem what they want - fully referenced. Just direct all peotry questions to my page. [[User: Giano]] [[User talk:Giano|(the bottle's open)]]

:All the <nowiki><ref></nowiki> things are abominations, even the new ones, for a whole host of reasons, primarily that the reader is distracted from the text by being expected to look down, and also because once everything's cited, you daren't make any changes! Bish, you're just wrong, sorry. ;-) Geogre, if you quote, it's better to cite, but it can be a Harvard reference, which isn't intrusive (Smith 2005), then add a full citation to the References section. BoG, I don't agree that it's a bad thing to mix styles. I agree that mixing the two main systems (Harvard ref and footnotes) would be odd, but mixing Harvard (for offline stuff) with embedded links (for online) is fine, in my view. Geogre, Giano, we may have to go forth and fight them on the beaches. ;-) [[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]] ^{<font color="Purple">[[User_talk:SlimVirgin|(talk)]]</font>} 10:17, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

::* Fear not little virgin I am working on a cunning plan! [[User:Giano|Giano]] | [[User talk:Giano|talk]] 10:38, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

:::*Jolly good. Little virgin knows she's in safe hands then. ;-D [[User:SlimVirgin|SlimVirgin]] ^{<font color="Purple">[[User_talk:SlimVirgin|(talk)]]</font>} 10:43, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

== DreamGuy ==

Hello, thank you for reviewing the dispute between me and DreamGuy. I have attempted to collect relevant information at this page: [[User:Elonka/DreamGuy dispute]]. If you have any advice on the best way to proceed with dispute resolution, I am very interested in your advice, thanks. [[User:Elonka|Elonka]] 15:25, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:I'm very glad to hear it. I've posted it on your page. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 15:35, 24 January 2006 (UTC).

Bishonen, in reply to your messages on my talk page, I would like to explain why I have concerns about whether or not you can remain unbiased in this matter. Please [[assume good faith]] on my part. I am not trying to attack you personally -- I am trying to explain why you may not be looking at the situation objectively.

To my knowledge, your first awareness of my dispute with DreamGuy was when you saw DreamGuy's [[User_talk:Android79#Someone_harassing_me_and_another_person_pretending_to_be_a_mediator_or_something | appeal to admin Android79 for help]], in which DreamGuy gave a highly emotional, biased, and inaccurate view of the situation, referring to Petros' efforts in negative terms, and to me as "an emotional editor" who was "upset" and seeking "revenge".

In my opinion, a party seeking to act in a neutral manner would have then posted on *both* our pages, in diplomatic language that did not immediately assume fault on either side. A neutral party should seek to get both sides of the situation before taking action. Instead, you posted a sympathetic message on DreamGuy's page[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DreamGuy&diff=prev&oldid=36503893], and posted a threat of block on mine[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk%3AElonka&diff=36508387&oldid=36507059].

Your first action was to go to DreamGuy's page and tell him that you would be "happy to tell both of them that any continuing posting amounts to harassment". (I especially note the word "happy"). You also said to him, "she's not free to harass you about it, nor to badmouth you elsewhere". Again, this was a comment that implied that you had taken DreamGuy's claims at face value that I was "bad mouthing" him, without yourself first reviewing the facts of the matter.

What really struck me though, is that you made a point of mentioning how "Everyking was recently blocked for harassing" you, in your comment to DreamGuy. I know little about the situation with Everyking, but I believe the situation, your comment, and your actions all make a good case that you were projecting your own feelings onto DreamGuy's situation.

You also went to Petros and told him that he was to "butt out"[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Petros471&diff=prev&oldid=36511060]. You advised him to delete the page that he had made, and said you would "gladly delete it" for him. This too seemed odd to me. You also defended DreamGuy at the Wikiquette alerts page [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Wikiquette_alerts&diff=prev&oldid=36514571], and then went back to DreamGuy's page to tell him that even though you weren't reviewing the situation, you stood ready to block either Petros or me [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:DreamGuy&diff=prev&oldid=36512646]. Again, I see this as completely taking DreamGuy's side, without having bothered to review the facts of the matter.

Please please do not assume that I am implying that you are a bad person. I have reviewed some of your other communications, and I see that you are capable of dealing with people in a civil and courteous manner, and that you work very very hard to reverse the damage that is caused to Wikipedia by a steady stream of vandals. I applaud these skills. I also know that it can be a thankless job being an admin (I manage other online communities, myself). And I know the dangers of burnout -- that when dealing with a constant flood of sockpuppets and others of poor social skills on Wikipedia, sometimes it becomes easy to see ''any'' user as having the same suspicious motivations as the other problem-causers.

In this particular dispute between DreamGuy and myself though, I think that you have mis-judged my actions. You did not seem to consider that I might genuinely be acting in good faith. As I tried to tell DreamGuy, I'm one of the ''good'' guys. For you to immediately threaten me with a block was excessive, especially considering that you had not yet reviewed the details.

It is my hope that you review your own actions in this matter, to ensure that you are doing your best to gather facts first, to review all parties fairly, and not to jump to conclusions. Just because some of the users on Wikipedia are problem cases, doesn't mean that all of them are. Thank you. [[User:Elonka|Elonka]] 00:34, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

:Please don't speak condescendingly to me, Elonka. Your notions that I'm "projecting my own feelings" or suffering from "burnout" aren't just inappropriate, they're inappropriately intimate — it's as if you believe yourself to have the privilege of a friend, or to be a psychiatrist analysing a patient. (Amateurishly, I might add.) You speak as if to a child. Yes, my first awareness of your dispute was when I saw DG's post on Android's page. I didn't know DG, I didn't know you: of course my first action wasn't to "jump to conclusions" and go to DG's page to post a sympathetic message. My first action was to review the situation, by studying the relevant pages and their histories, before posting to both of you according to my conclusions. You may well be a "good guy" for all I know. I have little interest in your motives, and I recommend you to adopt the same attitude to mine, or at least to avoid commenting on them. (Please see [[WP:NPA]]: "Comment on content, not on the contributor".) I look only at your actions and how they affect others, because that's what matters to the community and the encyclopedia. This is what I've seen so far: your series of posts on DG's page are harassing and your discussion of my psyche is presumptuous. Even your compliments are offensive, though I'm sure they're well meant. Making all possible allowances for your good intentions, I hope you won't allow yourself such a tone to me again. [[User:Bishonen|Bishonen]] | [[User talk:Bishonen|talk]] 01:49, 25 January 2006 (UTC).

== Red to Blue ==

I was looking up info on my [[Laetitia Pilkington|latest]] and tripped over an Edward Alexander Pilgrim, victim of bureacracy. The man's house had been bought by the council (UK), and he didn't know it, and they just started building a Unity house on "his" property. He sadly stared at it until one day in 1954 he hung himself in the shed on the land in dispute. Sounds like the origin of Arthur Dent, Tuttle in ''Brazil,'' and a number of others. This is a Macmillain/Labour Govt disaster of the 50s and a big stink, apparently. We have no article (hint to the Brits). [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 20:40, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:Which council? What is a Unity house? -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 21:37, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I knew it when I read it. I don't know it now. What's interesting is that there is no mention of him on the web that I can find (esp. since "pilgrim" pulls up every other thing than him, and "pilgrim council housing" comes up with council houses on Pilgrim Way, and "Edward Pilgrim" gets Edward Doty, Pilgrim on the Mayflower). I'll look, if you want. It did seem interesting, but I hadn't the time to take notes. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 21:47, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:I wondered if [[Unity House]] was [http://www.bbc.co.uk/stoke/features/2005/02/unity_house.shtml this one] in [[Stoke-on-Trent]]? But it was built in 1973, so presumably not... -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 21:51, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

I gathered, from the reference, that it was a ''type'' of building. However, the DNB said that he mournfully stood by as the Unity house got higher and higher until it blotted out the sun and you needed an electric light even on sunny days. In other words, it appears that it was a skyscraper apartment building, and the suicide/incident was '54, but that doesn't mean the thing was finished then. Still, it must have been finished some time around 60, at the latest, so I doubt it's that particular one. Tomorrow, I'll jot down the very skeleton of the story. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 22:07, 24 January 2006 (UTC)

:Bishonen should change the name of her talk page to '''Something Awfully Long''' and call it a forum, or at least a salon (provided we were artistes and/or meaningful). [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 14:21, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Well, latest ''de novo'' is [[Edward Pilgrim]], for those interested in martyrs to the local council and Harold Macmillan. [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 15:53, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

Oh, and I reearched [[Hannah Snell]], only to find that we already have an article on her. Well, those notes can go in the garbage, now, as our present article is at least as good as the one I'd write. (She's an interesting figure for all of that.) [[User:Geogre|Geogre]] 15:59, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

== Thanks from Lulu ==

<center><div style="text-align: center; margin: 0 10% 1em 10%;">

{| class="notice noprint" id="animosity" style="background: lightgreen; border: 1px solid #aaa; padding: 0.1em; margin: 0.5em auto;"

||'''Storm clouds ...''' || '''and silver linings'''|| Thank you for your support on my RfA.

|-

| valign="top" style="padding: 0.1em" | [[Image:Low clouds.jpg|150px|]]

| valign="top" style="padding: 0.1em" | [[Image:SilverUSGOV.jpg|150px|]]

| <div style="font-size: 90%;">Unfortunately, it failed to reach consensus. Nonetheless, it proved an opportunity to establish contacts and cooperation with many supportive editors, which will be beneficial to editing Wikipedia in the future. [[User:Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters|Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters]] ([[User talk:Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters|t]] [[User talk:Lulu of the Lotus-Eaters/silver lining|@]])</div>

|}

</div></center>

== Are you still participating in Beckjord arbitration? ==

I and the others that made original statements were informed of arbitration now opened in regards to Beckjord...[[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Beckjord]], evidence here, [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Beckjord/Evidence]] and the workshop here: [[Wikipedia:Requests for arbitration/Beckjord/Workshop]]. Thought I would just pass this on, as I noticed you hadn't been notified, but if you're no longer interested, then that's fine of course.--[[User:MONGO|MONGO]] 11:33, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

== More information ==

You requested more information on the sock check matter, which I've found by now: Please see: [[Wikipedia:Administrators' noticeboard/Incidents#Multiple Accounts / Admin Abuse 2]]. I'm letting you know since you seemed to grasp exactly why I was bothered by the incident. --[[User:Scandum|Scandum]] 13:41, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

:I checked the link you provided, and as far as I can see Jayjg still looks to be in violation with the guidelines regarding the the check user tool. There seems to be a whole lot more enthusiasm when it comes blocking legitimate sock puppets than dealing with admins who abuse their powers. --[[User:Scandum|Scandum]] 17:05, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

==[[Deus Caritas Est]]==

:<small>''Moved ALoan's comment down from one of the ancient sections up where nobody reads anything anymore.''</small>

Well, the encyclical is released and I have added it to [[WP:ITN]] (since it is in virtually all other news source) - I suppose I might as well have added a sign saying "vandals this way". [[User:Mushroom|Mushroom]] seems to think "caritas" does not mean love, despite the Church translating it that way. -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 12:36, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

:I added a stub the other day on the Swedish theologian [[Anders Nygren]], to make that link blue, but didn't really expand it into a real article, half expecting somebody to nominate it for deletion as a "nn professor" or "bishopcruft" or something like that. After all, he is a relatively contemporary person who didn't get payed to play baseball and never released any charted pop albums. Anyway, there seems to be no explicit reference to Nygren in the encyclical. Is that because he is one of them Lutheran heretics, or do these things never explicitly reference contemporary or recent authors? Descartes seems to be the most recent one. [[User:Tupsharru|Tupsharru]] 17:18, 25 January 2006 (UTC)

::Pass. He does mention [[Mother Theresa of Calcutta]] as one of his example saints in para.40, with a quote from her in para.36, and more recent church documents. No ''explicit'' mention of [[Dante]] in para.39 either, despite the allusion "Love is the light - and in the end, the only light - that can always illuminate a world grown dim..." -- [[User:ALoan|ALoan]] [[User talk:ALoan|(Talk)]] 18:33, 25 January 2006 (UTC)