Talk:Search engine optimization: Difference between revisions

Revision as of 06:52, 14 March 2025

Latest revision as of 16:52, 28 August 2025

(45 intermediate revisions by 29 users not shown)

Line 36:

{{afd-merged-from|Image search optimization|Image search optimization|14 September 2011}}

{{merged-from|SEO specialist|21 August 2024|talk=no}}

{{WikiProject banner shell|class=B|1collapsed=y|

{{WikiProject Computing|importance=Mid|websites=yes|websites-importance=Mid|software=yes|software-importance=Low}}

{{WikiProject Internet|importance=High}}

Line 43:

}}

{{Prone to spam|date=April 2012}}

{{xreadership|days=75}}

<!--- Auto archiving configured by [[User:FlightTime]] --->

{{User:MiszaBot/config

|archiveheader = {{Talk archive}}

|algo = old(365d)

|algo = old(182d)

|maxarchivesize = 100K

|minthreadsleft = 1

|minthreadstoarchive = 1

|counter = 6

|archive = Talk:Search engine optimization/Archive %(counter)d

|counter = 7

|maxarchivesize = 150K

|archiveheader = {{tan}}

|minthreadstoarchive = 1

|minthreadsleft = 4

}}

__TOC__

{{annual readership}}

{{xreadership|days=75}}

== Updating Keyword Stuffing Section for Modern Algorithms (BERT, RankBrain) ==

== Suggested Merge of ''[[SEO Specialist]]'' into this article ==

While keyword stuffing is still recognized as a bad practice, I believe the article should mention newer search algorithms like BERT, RankBrain, and their focus on understanding user intent and context. Perhaps we can update the section to reflect the evolution of search engine algorithms. [[User:ASWATHI S Nambiar|ASWATHI S Nambiar]] ([[User talk:ASWATHI S Nambiar|talk]]) 06:41, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

The article [[SEO Specialist]] pretty much only describes ''what'', ''how'' and ''why'' SEO is done but has the problems that it is an orphan and does not really use reliable sources. This article does a much better job at explaining all of that and does ''not'' have these problems. Therefore, i propose to merge the SEO Specialist article into this main article.

(I:Please knowpropose that in some cases, it makes sense to have two articles (as fora [[Architect]]WP:RS|reliable <-> [[Architecturesource]]) but those are much bigger topics/articles.) [[User:NyraxisGrayfell|NyraxisGrayfell]] ([[User talk:NyraxisGrayfell|talk]]) 1310:1606, 2618 JuneFebruary 20242025 (UTC)

::I believe search engine land is a reliable source, they publish articles, analyses, and research reports on SEO and search engine algorithms.

::https://searchengineland.com/library/platforms/google/google-algorithm-updates

::[[User:ASWATHI S Nambiar|ASWATHI S Nambiar]] ([[User talk:ASWATHI S Nambiar|talk]]) 04:39, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:::Based on your talk page, you have previously been warned about promotional editing, so I can't help but suspect your intentions for wanting to add this site are promotional. Do you have any affiliation with it? [[User:TornadoLGS|TornadoLGS]] ([[User talk:TornadoLGS|talk]]) 04:42, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

::::I suggested Search Engine Land because it provides a clear explanation of BERT and RankBrain's impact on keyword stuffing, a topic currently lacking in the Wikipedia article.

::::I believe this information is crucial for an update. I'm also happy to supplement it with corroborating sources like Search Engine Journal and Moz. My goal is to improve the article, not promote any specific site. [[User:ASWATHI S Nambiar|ASWATHI S Nambiar]] ([[User talk:ASWATHI S Nambiar|talk]]) 05:05, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:::::I think this is a good idea, but it's worth noting that Moz is a blocked ___domain on Wikipedia right now due to past activity. [[User:Dflovett|Dflovett]] ([[User talk:Dflovett|talk]]) 15:59, 28 July 2025 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 26 March 2025 ==

:What would be the point of the merger, though? The SEO Specialist is a real job (plenty of job listings for it) and you'd still have the problem of not finding reliable sources for the content if it's merged into this article. It's not like there's a lot of Wikipedia-qualified reliable content about SEO anyway. There are no industry standards and most of what is written about SEO in the media is sensationalized nonsense. I think it might make more sense to interlink the articles or propose the deletion of the SEO Specialist article. [[User:Michael Martinez|Michael Martinez]] ([[User talk:Michael Martinez|talk]]) 13:29, 26 June 2024 (UTC)

::'''Redirect'''. I don't think there is any real value in the SEO specialist article. Each company decides what these roles do. [[User:Michael Martinez|Michael Martinez]] ([[User talk:Michael Martinez|talk]]) 15:06, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected|Search engine optimization|answered=yes}}

*'''Merge''' (selectively). The overlap is huge, and the SEO specialist article is underdeveloped. Furthermore, since SEO Specialist is NOT mentioned at Search engine optimization, SEO Specialist could and probably should be viewed as a CONTENTFORK. For sure, it is an improper SPINOUT. Thank you, [[User:Michael Martinez|Michael Martinez]], for proposing this merge! [[User:Gidonb|gidonb]] ([[User talk:Gidonb|talk]]) 04:25, 3 July 2024 (UTC)

[[User:Shahnewajkhan|Shahnewajkhan]] ([[User talk:Shahnewajkhan|talk]]) 20:44, 26 March 2025 (UTC)

*'''Oppose Merge'''. The SEO Specialist article should stay separate from the main Search Engine Optimization (SEO) article. An SEO Specialist is a special job with its own tasks, skills, and career paths. This detailed information might be lost if merged. The SEO Specialist article gives clear information on job details, industry demand, career growth, and best practices. Improving this article with good sources and links to other articles is a better idea. Some users need clear information about the role of an SEO Specialist, which a separate article gives better. Merging could make the main SEO article too long and unclear. Separate articles allow for clear and focused content. The SEO Specialist article is a good learning tool for those who want to specialize in SEO. It gives focused insights and career advice. So, keep the SEO Specialist article as it is. It gives detailed information and stays clear for Wikipedia's users. [[User:Ibn Juferi|Ibn Juferi]] ([[User talk:Ibn Juferi|talk]]) 05:16, 6 July 2024 (UTC)

*:I agree with this entirely. The collective term for a person who practices SEO is "an SEO". SEO is the the skillset and an SEO is practitioner. The SEO Specialist page needs to stay separate and it need to incorporate the differing titles within the SEO community such as SEO Executive, SEO Manager and SEO Consultant. All of these practice SEO but they are at different points in their SEO career. An SEO executive is typically a junior with 1-2 years experience whereas an SEO Consultant often has more than 10 years experience in the profession. [[User:MrMarky1982|MrMarky1982]] ([[User talk:MrMarky1982|talk]]) 14:12, 11 September 2024 (UTC)

*'''Redirect'''. This is not a real article, it is likely AI-generated (GPTZero probability, 75%). It is an essay. The article title can be redirected and that will do the trick. As for the comments of the page creator (now blocked), Wikipedia is an encyclopedia, not a source of career advice. [[User:Dclemens1971|Dclemens1971]] ([[User talk:Dclemens1971|talk]]) 21:30, 15 August 2024 (UTC)

*:Going to a [[WP:BOLD]] merge/redirect here seeing a consensus. [[User:Dclemens1971|Dclemens1971]] ([[User talk:Dclemens1971|talk]]) 16:05, 21 August 2024 (UTC)

Request to Update Outdated Information on Mobile Search & Indexing

== Semi-protected edit request on 13 September 2024 ==

Hi, I would like to update a section of the article to reflect the latest developments in Google's mobile-first indexing and mobile search strategy.

{{edit semi-protected|Search engine optimization|answered=yes}}

[[User:Masud27623657239|Masud27623657239]] ([[User talk:Masud27623657239|talk]]) 12:14, 13 September 2024 (UTC)What Are Backlinks?

Current Text:

Backlinks are links on other websites that point to your website. In the world of (Search Engine Optimization), they’re like votes of credibility from other sites. The more high-quality backlinks you have, the higher your website is likely to rank in search results

"In 2015, it was reported that Google was developing and promoting mobile search as a key feature within future products. In response, many brands began to take a different approach to their Internet marketing strategies."

:[[File:Red question icon with gradient background.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done:''' it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a [[WP:EDITXY|"change X to Y" format]] and provide a [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable source]] if appropriate.<!-- Template:ESp --> [[User:Charliehdb|Charliehdb]] ([[User talk:Charliehdb|talk]]) 14:34, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

Proposed Revision:

== Proposal to Expand Section on Core Web Vitals in SEO ==

"Since 2015, Google has prioritized mobile search as a key factor in search rankings, leading to the widespread adoption of mobile-first indexing. In 2020, Google confirmed that all websites would be indexed based on their mobile versions.<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://developers.google.com/search/blog/2020/03/announcing-mobile-first-indexing-for |title="Announcing mobile-first indexing for the whole web" |website=Google Search Central Blog |date=March 5, 2020 |access-date=March 27, 2025}}</ref> This shift prompted businesses to optimize their websites for mobile performance, focusing on factors such as loading speed, interactivity, and visual stability—metrics now measured by Core Web Vitals.<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://developers.google.com/search/docs/appearance/core-web-vitals |title="Core Web Vitals & Page Experience" |website=Google Search Central Documentation |access-date=March 27, 2025}}</ref> Furthermore, Google has continued enhancing mobile search with AI-powered features, including AI Overviews and an experimental AI Mode, reshaping the way users interact with search results.<ref>{{Cite web |url=https://blog.google/products/search/ai-mode-search/ |title="A new era of Search with AI Overviews and more" |website=Google Blog |date=May 14, 2024 |access-date=March 27, 2025}}</ref>"

Reason for Edit:

Hello,

The current sentence only references 2015 predictions about mobile search, which are outdated.

The proposed edit includes factual updates on mobile-first indexing (officially implemented in 2020).

I’ve been reviewing the '''Search Engine Optimization''' article, and I believe the section on '''on-page SEO techniques''' could benefit from an update. Given the recent emphasis Google has placed on '''Core Web Vitals''' as a ranking signal, this topic seems underrepresented in the current article.

It adds relevant, verifiable sources from Google, ensuring accuracy.

Would it be worth expanding this section to include a breakdown of '''Core Web Vitals''' (Largest Contentful Paint, First Input Delay, and Cumulative Layout Shift) and their importance in modern SEO strategies? There’s solid research from sources like Google’s Web.dev and independent SEO research firms like Moz that could be used as references.

The revised content provides a more comprehensive overview of how mobile search has evolved.

I’d be happy to help provide references and structure the update if the community agrees it would add value to the article. Looking forward to your feedback! [[User:Shahzaibahmadkhan|Shahzaibahmadkhan]] ([[User talk:Shahzaibahmadkhan|talk]]) 17:52, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

: It would depend on the sources used, taking note of the spam warnings on your talk page. <b>[[User:Ohnoitsjamie|OhNo<span style="color: #D47C14;">itsJamie</span>]] [[User talk:Ohnoitsjamie|^Talk]]</b> 18:39, 13 September 2024 (UTC)

:Core Web Vitals is not a major ranking signal and it's only specific to Google. Search engine optimization is about managing the relationship between Websites and ALL search engines. There is no justification for including a section about Core Web Vitals in this article. It seriously needs clean up. Adding more Google-specific content that isn't even significant will just make it less useful. [[User:Michael Martinez|Michael Martinez]] ([[User talk:Michael Martinez|talk]]) 15:37, 16 September 2024 (UTC)

Thank you for reviewing this request!

== Blog networks are not link farms, and vice versa ==

:{{Not done}}: please provide [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> ([[WP:secondary|secondary sources]]) [[User:Perception312|Perception312]] ([[User talk:Perception312|talk]]) 20:13, 8 June 2025 (UTC)

There is no Wikipedia-acceptable reliable source that accurately describes the difference between a "blog network" and a "link farm". These articles have been challenged by some Wikipedians for not sourcing their statements of fact correctly, and that's just never going to happen because the people who created these spam systems don't publish academic papers, aren't profiled by the Wall Street Journal, and aren't considered reliable sources. A link farm is any group of Websites that all link to each other [regardless of whether they are blogs] for the purpose of manipulating or influencing search engine crawling, indexing, and/or ranking. The link farms were created by adding pages filled with links to existing Websites. They had nothing to do with blogging.

{{reflist-talk}}

Link spammers turned to creating blog networks that sold home page backlinks after the link farms were killed off by the search engines. The blog networks did NOT all link to each other. They merely sold links to other sites. This article and the Link Farm article should not be using the terms interchangeably. That's like saying killer whales are sharks because they're both sea predators. [[User:Michael Martinez|Michael Martinez]] ([[User talk:Michael Martinez|talk]]) 05:30, 12 December 2024 (UTC)

== Addressing update and essay-like issues ==

Hey [[User:Michael Martinez|Michael Martinez]] - I think the edit that flagged your concern was one that I made, and it was not intended to cause trouble or make it so that this article was taking a stance on this. I noticed that "blog network" was linking to "link farm" and so I tried to call out clearly where that link was going to take someone before they clicked it. You made the right call by just deleting that out. I think this is definitely an issue within Wikipedia, and a distinction that's needed, but not sure where to take this from here.[[User:Dflovett|Dflovett]] ([[User talk:Dflovett|talk]]) 18:07, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

I've made targeted edits to address the maintenance tags:

:This article is a mess and doesn't really do things the Wikipedia way. But for reasons I explained above, there's never going to be a Wikipedia way to document search engine optimization accurately. There are no industry standards, everyone (even in academia) just makes up terminology for their own purposes, and the people who pioneered some of these techniques (including me) are considered Primary Sources (although there is a suggested way to use them - [[Wikipedia:Identifying and using primary sources|Wikipedia:Identifying and using primary sources - Wikipedia]]). At this point, my goal is just to keep the confusion in the article to a minimum. I don't have time and energy to do much actual editing on Wikipedia these days. [[User:Michael Martinez|Michael Martinez]] ([[User talk:Michael Martinez|talk]]) 19:18, 5 January 2025 (UTC)

* Replaced outdated 2008 UK market share data with current 2024 statistics

== Semi-protected edit request on 24 December 2024 ==

* Removed irrelevant 2006 industry size comparisons

* Updated general statements about Google's market dominance with current context

* Removed prescriptive language and business advice

* Changed tutorial-style "how to" content to neutral descriptions

* Replaced subjective recommendations with objective industry observations

* Consolidated repetitive Google algorithm update history

* Maintained informational value while improving readability

Request review for removal of maintenance tags. [[User:TarynCheese|TarynCheese]] ([[User talk:TarynCheese|talk]]) 01:58, 13 August 2025 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected|Search engine optimization|answered=yes}}

please allow me to edit [[User:Abs sadiq|Abs sadiq]] ([[User talk:Abs sadiq|talk]]) 02:13, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

:It doesn't work that way. Read the instructions in the tag you placed in your request. And if you're hoping to drop a link in the article to your Website, that won't last more than 10 minutes at most. [[User:Michael Martinez|Michael Martinez]] ([[User talk:Michael Martinez|talk]]) 02:21, 24 December 2024 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 1618 JanuaryAugust 2025 ==

{{Edit semi-protected|Search engine optimization|answered=yes}}

1. In the "History" section, add this paragraph after the 2024 update note:

I would like to add an internal link to the term "target audience" in the sentence:

"By 2024, the rise of generative AI tools like ChatGPT and Google's Search Generative Experience (SGE) led to the development of Generative Engine Optimization (GEO). This new approach focuses on optimizing content for AI-generated answers in addition to traditional search results, requiring adjustments to content structure and authority signals.[1][2]"

2. Add a new subsection under "Methods" titled "AI and generative search optimization" with:

Current text:

"{{Main|Generative engine optimization}}

which search engines are preferred by a target audience.

With the advent of AI-powered search tools, SEO strategies have expanded to include:

* Optimization for featured snippets in AI-generated answers

* Structured data markup for large language model comprehension

* Balancing AI-assisted content creation with Google's 'Helpful Content' guidelines[3]"

References:

Proposed change in source editor format:

[1] https://blog.google/products/search/generative-ai-search/

which search engines are preferred by a [[Target audience|target audience]].

[2] https://www.searchenginejournal.com/generative-engine-optimization/492329/

[3] https://developers.google.com/search/blog/2023/02/google-search-and-ai-content [[User:Microarindam|Microarindam]] ([[User talk:Microarindam|talk]]) 20:03, 18 August 2025 (UTC)

:{{Not done}}''':''' please provide [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] that support the change you want to be made.<!-- Template:ESp --> Your second reference is a dead link, and the other two (from Google) are somewhat promotional, and I would consider them primary sources. Ideally, with reference to more reliable sources, the tone of this can be made less promotional. [[User:Seercat3160|Seercat3160]] ([[User talk:Seercat3160|talk]]) 10:34, 19 August 2025 (UTC)

== Semi-protected edit request on 28 August 2025 ==

This will link the phrase "target audience" to the Wikipedia article on Target audience (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Target_audience), providing additional context and helping readers understand the term better. [[User:Digital Dharmesh|Digital Dharmesh]] ([[User talk:Digital Dharmesh|talk]]) 05:09, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:{{a note}}<!-- Template:ESp --> I'm not convinced it's needed. [[User:M.Bitton|M.Bitton]] ([[User talk:M.Bitton|talk]]) 11:49, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

:[[File:X mark.svg|20px|link=|alt=]] '''Not done for now''': please establish a [[Wikipedia:Consensus|consensus]] for this alteration '''[[Wikipedia:Edit requests|before]]''' using the {{Tlx|Edit semi-protected}} template.<!-- Template:ESp --> Due to M.Bitton opposing the requested edit, I am marking this as not done for now, once a consensus has been reached, you may reopen the request. [[User:Shadow311|Shadow311]] ([[User talk:Shadow311|talk]]) 18:11, 16 January 2025 (UTC)

{{edit semi-protected|Search engine optimization|answered=yes}}

== Updating Keyword Stuffing Section for Modern Algorithms (BERT, RankBrain) ==

{{subst:trim|1=

While keyword stuffing is still recognized as a bad practice, I believe the article should mention newer search algorithms like BERT, RankBrain, and their focus on understanding user intent and context. Perhaps we can update the section to reflect the evolution of search engine algorithms. [[User:ASWATHI S Nambiar|ASWATHI S Nambiar]] ([[User talk:ASWATHI S Nambiar|talk]]) 06:41, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

:Please propose a [[WP:RS|reliable source]]. [[User:Grayfell|Grayfell]] ([[User talk:Grayfell|talk]]) 10:06, 18 February 2025 (UTC)

::I believe search engine land is a reliable source, they publish articles, analyses, and research reports on SEO and search engine algorithms.

::https://searchengineland.com/library/platforms/google/google-algorithm-updates

::[[User:ASWATHI S Nambiar|ASWATHI S Nambiar]] ([[User talk:ASWATHI S Nambiar|talk]]) 04:39, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

:::Based on your talk page, you have previously been warned about promotional editing, so I can't help but suspect your intentions for wanting to add this site are promotional. Do you have any affiliation with it? [[User:TornadoLGS|TornadoLGS]] ([[User talk:TornadoLGS|talk]]) 04:42, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

::::I suggested Search Engine Land because it provides a clear explanation of BERT and RankBrain's impact on keyword stuffing, a topic currently lacking in the Wikipedia article.

::::I believe this information is crucial for an update. I'm also happy to supplement it with corroborating sources like Search Engine Journal and Moz. My goal is to improve the article, not promote any specific site. [[User:ASWATHI S Nambiar|ASWATHI S Nambiar]] ([[User talk:ASWATHI S Nambiar|talk]]) 05:05, 19 February 2025 (UTC)

Current:

== Semi-protected edit request on 14 March 2025 ==

“Search engine optimization (SEO) is the process of improving the quality and quantity of website traffic to a website or a web page from search engines.”

Suggested Revision:

{{edit semi-protected|Search engine optimization|answered=no}}

“Search engine optimization (SEO) refers to techniques used to enhance both the quality and volume of traffic to a website or web page through organic search engine results.”

[[User:Shameerjafry|Shameerjafry]] ([[User talk:Shameerjafry|talk]]) 06:52, 14 March 2025 (UTC)

[[User:Billysee|Billysee]] ([[User talk:Billysee|talk]]) 05:27, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

Search Engine Optimization (SEO) is the practice of improving a website's visibility on search engine results pages (SERPs). It encompasses several strategies designed to enhance both the quantity and quality of website traffic. SEO is divided into three main categories: on-page SEO, off-page SEO, and technical SEO.

:{{not done}}''':'''<!-- Template:ESp --> No reason given for the proposed change. [[User:Day Creature|Day Creature]] ([[User talk:Day Creature|talk]]) 16:52, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

== Why does 'SEO spam' link to this page, when this page contains absolutely no reference to SEO spam? ==

On-Page SEO focuses on optimizing individual web pages to rank higher in search results. This includes optimizing content, HTML tags (such as title and meta descriptions), and internal links. Relevant keywords are strategically placed within content to improve search visibility.

The page doesn't even contain any indication that SEO has any relevance to spam, or that anybody has ever connected the concepts.

Off-Page SEO involves activities performed outside the website to improve its authority and trustworthiness. One of the most well-known off-page SEO techniques is link building, which refers to gaining backlinks from reputable websites. Social media marketing, influencer outreach, and guest blogging are other strategies to improve a site's online presence.

According to the archives, the page used to contain information about the pros and cons, controversies, negative effects and social impacts.

Technical SEO ensures that a website meets the technical requirements of modern search engines, such as mobile-friendliness, fast load times, and secure browsing (HTTPS). Optimizing site architecture and crawlability also fall under technical SEO.

Now all the discussion seems to be about exactly which SEO practices and companies can be promoted more.

A well-optimized website can improve both user experience and search engine rankings, making SEO an essential part of any digital marketing strategy.

Is it really just me that thinks if a practice is so frequently exploited for profit that the world's richest companies have spent decades trying to combat (according to [https://blog.google/products/search/google-search-update-march-2024/ Google], anyway) the Wikipedia page linked to 'SEO spam' ought to contain at least a section on the negative impacts, rather than a vague paragraph on 'black hat SEO' presenting the multi-billion dollar scam industry as a quirky trickster who occasionally changes hats? [[User:Moubliezpas|Moubliezpas]] ([[User talk:Moubliezpas|talk]]) 10:16, 28 August 2025 (UTC)

[https://wwmcltd.com/services/marketing-services/seo/ For further insights and detailed professional SEO services, see SEO Services - Worldwide Marketing & Consultancy.]