Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style and List of Enid Blyton's books, 1949: Difference between pages

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This is a list of [[Enid Blyton]]'s books first published in [[1949]].
==See also==
 
*''Enid Blyton's Bedside Book''
* [[Wikipedia talk:Establish context]]
*''Enid Blyton Bible Stories: Old Testament''
* [[Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions (capitalization)]]
*''Enid Blyton Pictures: Old Testament''
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (dashes)]]
*''A Book of Magic''
*''My Enid Blyton Book'', illustrated by Cicely Steed, 2<ref>[http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/author/book-details.php?id=632]</ref>
*''Bumpy and His Bus'', illustrated by Dorothy M. Wheeler<ref>Reprinted Dean, 1974.</ref>
*''A Cat in Fairyland and Other Stories'', Pitkin<ref>Reprinted 1986, Hutchinson.</ref>
*''Chuff The Chimney Sweep and other stories'', Pitkin
*''The Circus Book'', illustrated by R. Webster
*''Daffodil Story Book''
*''The Dear Old Snow Man'', Brockhampton Nursery Series<ref>[http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/author/book-details.php?id=629]</ref>
*''Don't be Silly, Mr. Twiddle''<ref>Reprinted Dean, 1971, and in 2004.</ref>
*''The Enchanted Sea and Other Stories'', illustrated by E. H. Davie<ref>[http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/author/book-details.php?id=661]</ref>
*''Five Get Into Trouble'', [[Famous Five series]] 8<ref>[http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0577502/] Film version at IMDB; [http://ftvdb.bfi.org.uk/sift/title/7610] 1978 TV film.</ref>
*''Good Morning Book'', illustrated by Don and Ann Goring<ref>[http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/author/book-details.php?id=875]</ref>
*''Fourth Holiday Book'', illustrated by Mary K. Lee and Eelco M. T. H. Van der Beek, cover Hilda Boswell<ref>[http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/author/book-details.php?id=616]</ref>
*''Humpty Dumpty and Belinda'', illustrated by Sally Gee<ref>[http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/author/book-details.php?id=381]</ref>
*''Jinky's Joke and other stories'', illustrated by Kathleen Gell<ref>[http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/author/book-details.php?id=874]</ref>
*''Little Noddy Goes to Toyland'', [[Noddy Library]] 1<ref>Correct title includes ''Little''; see British Museum page[http://www.bl.uk/collections/britirish/chilhist.html].</ref>
*''The Mountain of Adventure'', [[The Adventure Series]] 5
*''Mr. Tumpy and his Caravan'', illustrated by Dorothy Wheeler<ref>[http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/author/book-details.php?id=376]</ref>
*''The Mystery of the Pantomime Cat'', illustrated by J. Abbey, [[The Five Find-Outers]] 7<ref>[http://www.enidblyton.net/getbookcovers.php?thisfile=the-mystery-of-the-pantomime-cat Covers]</ref>
*''Oh, What a Lovely Time'', illustrated by Jeanne Farrar, Brockhampton Press<ref>As ''Christmas in the Toy Shop'', 1990.</ref>
*''Enid Blyton's Robin Hood Book'', illustrated by Joyce Johnson, Latimer House<ref>May be a reprint of the 1930 Newnes book.[http://home.earthlink.net/~ozfoxes/sherwood/rb2novl.htm]</ref>
*''The Rockingdown Mystery'', illustrated by Gilbert Dunlop, [[The Barney Mysteries]] 1<ref>[http://www.enidblyton.net/getbookcovers.php?thisfile=the-rockingdown-mystery Covers]</ref>
*''The Secret Seven'', illustrated by George Brook, [[Secret Seven series]] 1<ref>[http://www.enidblyton.net/getbookcovers.php?thisfile=the-secret-seven Covers]</ref>
*''A Story Party at Green Hedges'', illustrated by Grace Lodge<ref>[http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/author/book-details.php?id=658]</ref>
*''The Strange Umbrella and Other Stories'', illustrated by E. H. Davie and M. Thorp<ref>Reprinted title 1989, Award.[http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/author/book-details.php?id=1394]</ref>
*''Tales After Supper'', illustrated by Eileen Soper
*''Those Dreadful Children'', illustrated by Grace Lodge
*''Enid Blyton's Tiny Tales'', illustrated by Eileen Soper<ref>[http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/author/book-details.php?id=421]</ref>
*''The Upper Fourth at Malory Towers'', illustrated by Stanley Lloyd, [[Malory Towers]] 4<ref>[http://www.enidblyton.net/getbookcovers.php?thisfile=upper-fourth-at-malory-towers Covers]</ref>
 
==Reference==
===Miscellaneous archives===
*John Cooper and Jonathan Cooper, ''Children's Fiction 1900-1950'' (1998), p. 177-8
 
==Notes==
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style--Archive Directory]]
<references/>
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style--Archive1]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style--Archive2]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style--Archive3]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style--Archive4]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style--Archive5]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style/Archive 6]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style--Archive7]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style--Archive8]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style--Archive9]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style--Archive10]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style--Archive11]]
 
===TopicalExternal archives=links==
*[http://www.enidblytonsociety.co.uk/author/book-groups.php?pick=year&value=1949 Enid Blyton Society, 1949]
*[http://masonwilley.tripod.com/id41.html]
*[http://www.booksandwriters.co.uk/writer/B/enid-blyton.asp]
*[http://www.foxall.com.au/users/mje/Blyton.htm]
*[http://www.theweeweb.co.uk/public/author_profile.php?id=82]
 
{{Blyton bibliography}}
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (chemical names)]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (citing references)]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style (dates and numbers)]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style--Draft Trim]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style--Draft Trim discussion archive]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (external links)]] (includes references and further reading)
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (foreign languages)]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (links)]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style Archive (Layout)]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (Names)]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (numbers)]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (personal pronouns)]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (places)]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (Poll: always use "U.S." and Oxford commas?)]] (neither current policy nor the alternative proposals gained consensus)
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (pronunciation)]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (quotes and quote marks)]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (sexuality)]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive ("See also")]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (spaces after a period)]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (spelling 1)]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (spelling 2)]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive ("U.S." or "American")]]
* [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (versions of English)]]
 
[[Category:Books by Enid Blyton]]
==Style guide philosophy==
 
In my view, some of the issues concerning this style guide might be resolved more easily if we decided some general philosophical issues that could guide future decisions. For example, these could include whether we think it should be more concise or more detailed, or how formal to be with the language. Any comments about such a possible philosophical underpinning? [[User:Maurreen|Maurreen]] 12:58, 2 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
:I favor a concise, prescriptive guide, clear and to the point, but one which also contains links for each item to sub-pages giving rationale for that rule, further examples, reasons for debate, and so on. In some cases the sub-page might contain nothing but links to sections in discussion page archives and external links to sections of other style manuals on the web or discussions of the points being considered. The main guide would be short for those doing a quick look to see if there is a rule there and what it might be. But if someone wants fuller examples, more clarification, or discussion of the rationale behind the rule along with what objections may have been raised to the rule, the information is only one or two clicks away. [[User:Jallan|Jallan]] 03:27, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
::Jallan, all that sounds smart to me. A few other things I favor:
::I think we don't need to be nearly as extensive as many other guides. I think the style can more or less evolve on a basis of what is needed.
::The links you suggest above could also better integrate the specialized style guides, etc. For example, "Dates" could link to the Dates and Numbers style guide or the dates section within it, or a similar set up.
::I'd also like a more alphabetical organization and possibly cross-references. That is, a user could find "commas" under "C" (and perhaps also under "punctuation). But I think most style guides favor the topical approach, so I'd understand if anyone objected. Hopefully, the guide could eventually evolve so people could find things very quickly regardless of how they look things up.
::Clarity and accuracy are two top guiding principles.
::[[User:Maurreen|Maurreen]] 06:28, 5 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
:I'm all for a concise, prescriptive guide, that is clear and to the point, together with subpages giving examples of how the policy in the prescriptive guide may be implemented in practice. The subpages should be clearly marked as being non-binding guidance (ie they are not policy), but should, of course, be consistent with the concise, prescriptive policy in the Manual of Style proper. I don't mind a short discussion of why something is policy on a subpage, but any detailed discussion and arguments should be moved to the talk page of any subpage.
 
:I also note that we have other 'style' type guidance on Wikipedia other than the Manual of Style (including its supplements). [[Wikipedia:How to edit a page]] and a host of other articles in the Wikipedia namespace that show how to write better articles. I'm trying to condense the latter type into one document on [[User:Jongarrettuk/Better writing guide]], and will propose it as a consolidation of existing guidance (that is not policy) shortly.
 
:I see these as three interconnected streams. Wikification (How to edit a page); a Style Guide that is policy (Manual of Style, including supplements); and suggestions as to how to write better articles (currently numerous articles that I will shortly propose consolidating). Some mixture of the subpages Jallan suggests and a Better writing guide (all properly ordered so it is easy to find related topics) in addition to a shorter, but definitive, policy in the Manual of Style, and would certainly make sense to me. I certainly agree with Maurreen that some sort of order and cross-referencing needs to be put into the supplemental Manuals of Style so that it's easy to find things. [[User:Jongarrettuk|jguk]] 10:02, 6 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
::That sounds good overall. [[User:Maurreen|Maurreen]] 06:05, 7 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
:Perhaps we should set up a WikiProject to develop all this. Perhaps title the WikiProject 'Rationalising Wikipedia guidance on style' or something similar? I'd also welcome initial comments on my attempt to consolidate non-binding advice at [[User:Jongarrettuk/Better writing guide]]. I'll propose it on all of the individual pages I am consideing consolidating on Wednesday. The aim here is to consolidate advice, not change it. Please feel free to amend the main article so it reads better, or if I have inadvertently changed advice to reinsert it. But leave off proposals to change guidance for now. That can happen once it goes 'live'. [[User:Jongarrettuk|jguk]] 20:09, 8 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
::I doubt there is enough interest to support a Wikiproject. [[User:Maurreen|Maurreen]] 06:32, 9 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
 
 
==Connexion==
 
Discussion archived at [[Wikipedia talk:Manual of Style archive (spelling 2)]]. [[User:Maurreen|Maurreen]] 23:30, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
== Re: Use straight quotation marks and apostrophes ==
 
Am I right that, despite this policy, what I have done with the mark '''&#8222;''' in the Spanish-language text at [[:Image:Fuero.JPG]] is correct, since I am transcribing a document? -- [[User:Jmabel|Jmabel]] | [[User talk:Jmabel|Talk]] 09:52, Nov 12, 2004 (UTC)
:If you are transcribing, then reproduce exactly what you see there. If you then translate it into English, do not use that exotic punctuation. [[User:Chameleon|''Chameleon'']] 10:28, 12 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
::Pardon me, but at Hawai&lsquo;i related subject articles, we have been using the left-quote-style &lsquo;okina, because its appearance is preferred both in Hawaiian and Hawaiian English. I think an exception should be stated for situations where certain conventions are preferred even in English standards, such as in Hawaiian English. We do not use "Hawai`i", nor "Hawai'i". We use "Hawai&lsquo;i". - [[User:Gilgamesh|Gilgamesh]] 08:44, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
:::I think the &lsquo;okina is a different issue. It's not really an English apostrophe or speech mark. [[User:Chameleon|''Chameleon'']] 14:07, 13 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
:Part of the reason for using straight marks is consistency and part is technological issues. Not everyone uses browsers or operating systems that support the extended Unicode characters. See [[Quotation mark#Curved quotes in English]] for a good explanation. The MediaWiki Handbook also provides a list of safe characters at [[Meta:Help:Special_characters|Help:Special characters]]. And if you read down further in the document you will see that double quotes can be entered by using the entities &amp;bdquo; and &amp;rdquo; (&bdquo; and &rdquo;). &mdash;[[User:Moverton|Mike]] 20:16, Nov 13, 2004 (UTC)
 
==New template==
 
I've created a new template to make it easier to navigate between all the various bits of guidance. I'll try it on this page first and roll it out more generally if people are ok with it. The template itself can be edited on [[Template:Style]]. [[User:Jongarrettuk|jguk]] 10:38, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
:If you're going to put all of that into a template, maybe you should add the "Further information" section to it. All of it is "further information." [[User:Maurreen|Maurreen]] 17:38, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
::I'm tempted to add [[Wikipedia:How to edit a page]] and [[Wikipedia:The perfect stub article]] (and also [[Wikipedia:The perfect article]] and [[Wikipedia:How to write a great article]] which don't appear as "further information"). The other stuff in "further information" isn't really guidance on style, so wouldn't be suitable for the template. [[User:Jongarrettuk|jguk]] 17:47, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
===On further review===
 
In my opinion, the top of the style guide is looking worse. The body text is now somewhat crowded and the intro is boxed in. [[User:Maurreen|Maurreen]] 05:54, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
==Draft trim and restructuring==
 
In line with the "style guide philosophy" section listed above, I have produced a concise version of the current Manual of Style. I have tried not to delete key policy and that is not my intention, I will reinsert bits that are missing. The aim is to shorten the Manual (and considerably too), but without changing policy. Guidance on how the Manual can be applied can then go on subsidiary pages. Going through the Manual has made me think that there's too much on links in the Manual (most, if not all, of it is already covered where it should be covered on [[Wikipedia:How to edit a page]]). I'm also thinking of tabulating the ''Capital letters'' section.
 
My proposed version is on [[Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Draft trim (November 2004)]]. Please leave detailed comments on its talk page: [[Wikipedia talk:Draft trim (November 2004)]]. A comparison of the current manual and the proposal can be seen on [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Wikipedia%3AManual_of_Style%2FDraft_trim_%28November_2004%29&diff=0&oldid=7455601]. [[User:Jongarrettuk|jguk]] 16:39, 14 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
===Comments===
 
:This is also a reorganization. I think the two should be handled separately. [[User:Maurreen|Maurreen]]
 
::The simplest way to trim the style guide would probably be to put the section about links on its own page. [[User:Maurreen|Maurreen]] 00:22, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
:::I have added my comments on the discussion page for the draft trim. I wonder if the above might be better moved there also, with a prominent and bolder announcement of the draft trim appearing instead. This would keep the draft time discussion quite separate from any discussion of substantive changes. [[User:Jallan|Jallan]] 04:57, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
::::OK, I moved most of my response. [[User:Maurreen|Maurreen]] 06:12, 15 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
== Right floating TOC==
 
Should the TOC be floating right instead of left-aligned? Please see [[Wikipedia talk:TOC]]. [[User:Angela|Angela]][[user talk:Angela|.]] 17:19, Nov 15, 2004 (UTC)
 
== Multiple links to the same target ==
 
The guidelines currently suggest that more than one link to the same target "may be considered" too much if the links are within 40 lines of each other. I think we should distinguish between paragraphs of text, and tables. Paragraphs are usually read from beginning to end, and more than one link to the same target within the same paragraph (or even within the same multi-paragraph section) is unlikely to be useful. However, in tables such as those in [[List of asteroids (1-1000)]] or [[List of Members of the European Parliament 2004-2009]], I think it's useful for every cell to be linked. Tables are often searched to find a particular entry of interest, and the reader might easily ignore everything outside the one entry of interest, so it's useful if the entry of interest has links for all the relavant terms, whether of not those same terms are also linked elsewhere in the article. &mdash;[[User:AlanBarrett|AlanBarrett]] 21:05, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
:I agree. [[User:Maurreen|Maurreen]] 05:17, 17 Nov 2004 (UTC)
:I agree as well. [[User:MattKingston|Matt]] 04:43, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
== Punctuation as punctuation ==
 
When words are written about as words, they are italicised. But what is the convention when punctuation is written about as punctuation? Should the punctuation marks be italicised in the same way? I notice that there are inconsistancies within the articles about punctuation.
 
For example, should one write, "The & sign," or write, "The ''&'' sign"? [[User:Zoggie50|Zoggie50]] 22:03, 19 Nov 2004 (UTC)