Talk:List of reptilian humanoids and Perşembe: Difference between pages

(Difference between pages)
Content deleted Content added
Alex '05 (talk | contribs)
 
No edit summary
 
Line 1:
{{Infobox town TR
==Archives==
|name = Perşembe
*[[Talk:Reptilian humanoid/Delete]]
|photo =
*[[Talk:Reptilian humanoid/Archive]]
|photo size = 250
|photo cap =
|logo =
|logo size = 150
|logo cap =
|map = Ordu Turkey Provinces locator.gif
|map size = 250
|region = Black Sea
|province = Ordu
|population =
|population_as_of = 2003
|population_ref =
|pop_dens =
|area =
|elevation = 0
|lat_deg = 41
|lat_min = 04
|lat_hem = N
|lon_deg = 37
|lon_min = 46
|lon_hem = E
|postal_code = 52750
|area_code = 0452
|licence = 52
|mayor =
|website = http://mesudiye.bel.tr/
}}
 
'''Perşembe''' (formerly ''Vona'') is a town and a district of [[Ordu Province]] on the [[Black Sea]] coast of [[Turkey]].
----
 
==Legend and history==
== mmmmm....very interesting... ==
Perşembe is on the Vona Peninsula on the [[Black Sea]] coast and is held to be the point where the legendary [[Jason and the Argonauts]] were forced to land during their struggle with the storms and currents of the Black Sea.
 
For a long time Vona part of the [[Roman Empire]] and its sucessors the [[Byzantine Empire]] and [[Empire of Trebizond]]. This era ended in 1461 when Trebizond was overturned by Sultan [[Mehmet II]] and Vona was brought into the [[Ottoman Empire]], although there was a Turkish community in the town before this date. By 1520 the port of Vona was a predominantly Muslim town.
If anyone actually wants to check out some serious stuff concerning the whole 'reptilian' arena before they jump on the ol' 'that can't be true' bandwagon, then there's a video interview with Zulu shaman Credo Mutwa - available from the Bridge Of Love Publications website. I agree with a lot of what Khranus says about 'writing off' stuff b4 checking it out - smells like fear to me.......
 
== See also ==
:I think Khranus should email Jimbo and ask to be allowed back. I also think the the pro-skeptic bias of the wikipedia can be circumvented by folks like him behaving in a particularly respectable manner so as to minimize the prejudice against them when they provide their [[Wikipedia:Cite your sources|cited]] [[Wikipedia:Verifiability|verifiabile]] informations. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam]] [[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit&section=new '''Spade''']] 19:23, 1 Jun 2004 (UTC)
* [[Cape Jason]]
 
{{Districts of Turkey|provname=Ordu}}
Yep - It is a shame to lose people like Khranus from the discussion. I also accept that Wiki want to exert SOME control over the nature of expression on the site (I'm guessing from the 'banned user' page that the ban was about so-called 'bad language' etc? Although no specific reason seemed to be given?) So - if you're out there Khranus, how about it? [[User:Musicman|Musicman]] 18:19, Jun 4, 2004 (UTC)
 
{{BlackSeaTR-geo-stub}}
:he became abusive in his talk page communications, and simultaneously engaged in edit wars involving some highly dubious additions regarding dolphins conducting fusion within their heads. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam]] [[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit&section=new '''Spade''']] 22:52, 11 Jun 2004 (UTC)
 
[[tr:Perşembe, Ordu]]
== "Greys" as Dinosauroids ==
 
I think it's worth mentioning on this page that many conspiracy theoriests claim that "Greys" are actually reptiles because of their similarity to paleontologist Dr. Dave Russel's half-serious, hypothetical "Dinosauroid" which is essentually a humanoid descendant of the Troodontids -- specifically, the genus ''Stenonychosaurus''.
 
It should also be noted that not all believe these are "aliens". Many will refer to supposed myths that the subterranean [[Nagas]] could fly around in metallic disks which they kept hangared beneath the Earth's surface. The idea, here, is that (non-Avian) [[Dinosaurs]] have a several million year headstart on humans, and therefore greater technology, and did not go completely extinct but instead retreated into the "[[Underworld]]" to escape the nuclear winter caused by the meteorite that destroyed their contemporaries.
 
I could go on and on. Do some research for yourself and you will find these theories thoroughly fascinating. Insane, nutty, implausible, and usually rather juvenile, but fascinating nonetheless.
 
--[[User:209.206.169.222|209.206.169.222]] 10:09, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 
:Care to edit? ;) [[User:Sam Spade|Sam]] [[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit&section=new '''Spade''']] 17:15, 23 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 
::I've had quite a bit of trouble pinning down the original source for Russel's "dinoman", so I'd have to devote some time to research before even attempting an edit. Also, there's quite a bit material to cover in the whole "dinosaurs/reptiles as aliens" issue. In most of the reading I've done, a lot of it has to do with folklore and mythology of the "Underworld" and the psuedo-reptilian inhabitants therein (such as the aforemention Nagas). This sort of an issue would probably require it's own page, and should probably be allied more with UFO-ology than a general "reptilian humanoid" article which I think would probably work better as a categorized listing of lizard-men in fiction, games, mythology, etc.
 
::I mean, a page on reptilian humanoids is hard to find on the net. The one here could list everything from the "Cardassians" on Star Trek, to the Kremlings in Donkey Kong Country, to the Nagas in Indian mythology. It would be a useful resource.
 
::Anyway, I think this merits more discussion before any definitive action is taken -- but the article as it exists now suffers from two main problems: (1) it appears to be about reptiloids in general, from videogames, UFOlogy, literature, folklore, etc., but instead focusses almost solely on the UFOlogy aspect of it, and (2) is not nearly thorough enough in the psychology and "research" (if you can call it that) behind the UFOlogy angle.
 
::I would personally suggest making this article an archive of "reptiloids" such as the similar articles concerning species in folklore and fantasy-fiction (covering everything from Star Trek to Donkey Kong to actual mythology, as mentioned above), and then devoting a seperate page to "Reptiloids in UFOlogy" or "Aliens as Reptiles" or "Reptilian Conspiracy Theories" or something like that, because it is an interesting (and disturbingly widespread) sociological phenomena.
 
::--[[User:Corvun|Corvun]] 02:33, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 
:::I disagree w you on a few things, but would ask you to [[Be Bold]]. Just don't delete useful content, and lets see what you have in mind. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam]] [[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit&section=new '''Spade''']] 02:43, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 
::::I'm curious - what is it, particularly, that you disagree with? I'm asking mainly because I'm unsure of which course of action would be best. Expanding the list of reptiloids and non-UFOlogy/Conspiracy content, or adding more depth to the UFOlogy/Conspiracy aspect itself? I'm somewhat new to Wikipedia, and although I'm certainly tempted to [[Be Bold]], I don't want to end up starting an edit war or make things excessively complicated if it turns out that the UFOlogy/Conspiracy angle deserves a seperate page.
 
::::--[[User:Corvun|Corvun]] 03:18, 24 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 
:::::I'm not convinced about there needing to be a second page to focus on the alien dinosauroids angle, w this page being focused on fiction. As far as an edit war, I wouldn't worry. The only guy who had extreme feelings about reptilians got banned for being a bit too agro (see above). I don't think anybody else is gonna get very emotional about it. I guess my advice would be to keep everything on this page until its clear there is enough info to warrant a second page, but if you really want a separate page I'd like to see what it looks like :). [[User:Sam Spade|Sam]] [[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit&section=new '''Spade''']] 00:19, 26 Jul 2004 (UTC)
 
==Philip K. Dick, TLE, Meth, Branton==
 
Please put on your tin-foil hats and fasten your seatbelts:
 
:''Many people consider that Dick was suffering from psychosis or bipolar disorder at the time he reported these experiences, and he is known to have had psychotic symptoms.''
 
#There is some debate on this topic. Lawrence Sutin (Dick's biographer), and Eve LaPlante (TLE medical writer) suggest that [[temporal lobe]] [[epilepsy]] provides the best clinical explanation for Dick's behavior, not [[bipolar disorder|BPD]]. Accodring to one of Dick's wives, there is some evidence that he was misdiagnosed with [[bipolar disorder|BPD]]. It might be interesting to add TLE to his section along with [[bipolar disorder|BPD]], just for clarity. Oh, and let's not forget that Dick was taking [[methamphetamines]], too.
#Strange as it sounds, there appears to be some kind of anecdotal correlation between [[methamphetamine|meth]] use and reported Reptoid (or lizard) delusions. [http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=books&field-author=Branton/002-8543800-3240010 Branton], one of the popular Reptoid conspiracy writers, claims that, ''"...the reptilians promote the use of drugs especially methamphetamine and crank..."'' You might want to do a search on this strange gentleman and add him to your Modern Claims and/or conspiracy sections. Of course, it looks like Branton stole everything from [[Edward Bulwer-Lytton]]. I'm not sure why [[methamphetamine|meth]] keeps popping up in relation to Reptoids, but it does. --[[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] 07:36, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 
:::::Branton is a decent researcher but has some incorrect ideas based upon disinformation which he took as fact. The connection between meth and Reptilians probably has to do with the fact that Draco warriors often ingest methamphetamines, as do US Air Force pilots, before combat, to increase agility, perception, speed, etc. Edward Bulwer-Lytton was basically writing from what he knew from occult secret societies. The information was not totally accurate. Same goes for [[Maurice Doreal]]. The Illuminati are very real, and are currently manipulating the world toward a New World Order based upon Draconian beliefs. I wish it weren't true, but I can't deny reality, history or my own experience. For accurate information on the Draco and other alien races, refer to [[Stewart Swerdlow]] at http://www.stewartswerdlow.com For proof that the Illuminati exist and that the New World Order is a very real threat, refer to http://www.prisonplanet.com , http://www.infowars.com, and http://www.propagandamatrix.com Since most of this information is difficult for most people to swallow, I would suggest beginning with 9/11, the Road to Tyranny--Alex Jones' excellent film on government-sponsored terrorism. You can see it for free at [http://propagandamatrix.com/multimedia_priorknowledge_911roadtotyranny.html 9/11, the Road to Tyranny]. Truth is indeed far stranger, but also far more realistic than fiction. This is the way governments always behaved throughout history, except for a few rare exceptions. It is a delusion to believe that there are not elitist royals controlling as much as they can today.
::::::Thank you for sharing your opinion, but his page should be used for discussing the article and commenting on how to improve the page. It should ''not'' be used as a personal, political soapbox, or for trying to convince people of pet theories. Wikipedia policy is that all articles should have a [[neutral point of view]]. I kindly suggest that you study that page. --[[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] 17:06, 9 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 
==Joking/Ambiguous==
 
There is no ambiguity in the references I moved to this section. These were statements not intended to be taken seriously, or using 'reptilian' as a metaphor for 'evil and slimy'. [[User:DJ Clayworth|DJ Clayworth]] 16:46, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 
Also while I am here "These claims are not given credence by most people" is not POV, it is simply true. I didn't say the claims weren't true, I just said that hardly anybody believes them, which is absolutely factual. [[User:DJ Clayworth|DJ Clayworth]] 16:51, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 
You can't be absolutely sure whether they were metaphor, symbolism, or symbolic jokes. I know how the Illuminati think, and from my experience they like to 'joke' in this manner.
 
Those claims are not even known to most people, so they cannot be said to be 'not given credence'. (unsigned)
 
"I know how the Illuminati think". Lets get back to reality. This was a joke press release. Read the article. Read the news articles.
 
By the way, are you Khranus? If so, please let us know now. It will save a lot of trouble. [[User:DJ Clayworth|DJ Clayworth]] 18:07, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 
Also, even among the people who know about these theories, most give them no credence. [[User:DJ Clayworth|DJ Clayworth]] 18:08, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 
:"Most give them no credence". Great for them. They probably can't handle such a weighty reality, or simply are ignorant to what is going on. As I said, 'joke' press releases usually contain meaningful symbolism when coming from major political parties. Also, the Bushnell incident was not a 'joke' press release. It was an actual incident, and Bushnell warned people that he was serious, refusing to apologise for his statement. As I said, he was forced to resign as the head of the ABA.
 
:::If you demand to be stubborn and keep the latter article labelled 'joking', go ahead. I must warn you, however, that attempting to deny reality will not change it. Accepting what is going on empowers you with the oppurtunity to change it.
 
Duly noted. [[User:DJ Clayworth|DJ Clayworth]] 19:37, 16 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 
==129.173.208.180==
 
Stop promoting edit wars by reverting valid edits. You also seem fond of fabricating claims, and I suspect you are copying them from some other authors without citation. Either cite your references ("Leary was a CIA operative for MKULTRA") or continue to get reverted. --[[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] 02:06, 19 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 
:Leary was certainly an operative of MKULTRA. This was documented. He wouldn't have had access to LSD at that time for research otherwise. Harvard was a major centre for MKULTRA experimentation. This is public information, available from the Library of Congress, or from www.trance-formation.com (on CD) as part of the MKULTRA documents...His only claim to the contrary is that they didn't pay him for his work. This was very likely untrue, for obvious reasons, though financial records between Leary and the CIA are not currently available to the public. I didn't revert 'valid edits'. I'm not promoting 'edit wars'. I don't see where you get this idea [[User:129.173.208.155|129.173.208.155]]
::You are misinformed. It was LSD researcher [[Humphry Osmond]] who had connections to the [[CIA]] and [[MI6]], not Leary.[http://bmj.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/328/7441/713] And, that is documented. Leary had access to LSD at the time because it was '''legal'''. I suggest you try to check your facts before editing these pages again, and please, get get a handle, log in, learn to indent, and sign your comments. --[[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] 00:52, 28 Sep 2004 (UTC)
 
== Middle East ==
 
:''In one of the apocryphal books purporting to be the lost [[Book of Jasher]], a serpent race is described. ''
Which [[Sefer haYashar]]? The [[Sefer haYashar (midrash)|midrash]] or [[Book of Jasher (Pseudo-Jasher)|Pseudo-Jasher]]? They're both later forgeries.
 
:''The Israelites recorded that the former inhabitants of Canaan were "Serpents", "[[Rephaim]]", "[[Nephilim_(Bible)|Nephilim]]" and "[[Anakim]]". ''
None of those words mean 'serpent', as any lexicon of Biblical Hebrew will tell you.
 
:''This could refer to the Sumerian-influenced worship of serpents and dragon-like creatures which pervaded the Canaanite people before the Israelites entered that region.''
 
On what grounds do we make these bold assertions about Canaanite religion? Hmm? Are there any academic sources we could cite, perhaps? [[User:Mirv|&#8212;No-One]][[User talk:Mirv|&nbsp;''Jones'']]&nbsp;[[Special:Emailuser/Mirv|<sup>(m)</sup>]] 21:52, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 
 
I don't know which book of Yashar was referred to; the original article just said "the Book of Jasher". If I had to guess, I'd say Pseudo-Jasher. But I haven't read either one. I didn't add the stuff on Canaanites, but I couldn't vouch for them _not_ ever being referred to as serpents, or for them not worshipping serpents. -Ben Standeven
 
== crazed hacking apart of article ==
 
removing large portions of an article without concensus in talk is not acceptable. It is also pointless, since much of it will be replaced. Of course the article is far from perfect, but deleting half the page isn't helping anything. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam]] [[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit&section=new '''Spade''']] 22:00, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
:I explained my deletions in the edit summaries. Which of them do you dispute? [[User:Mirv|&#8212;No-One]][[User talk:Mirv|&nbsp;''Jones'']]&nbsp;[[Special:Emailuser/Mirv|<sup>(m)</sup>]] 22:05, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 
I dispute mass deletions of text w/o a prior history of having communicated in talk. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam]] [[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit&section=new '''Spade''']] 22:09, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 
:OK, the byzantium bit is an improvement. As for the rest of the mess you've been making of things here, isn't there a general understanding on the wiki that removed text is to be replaced w improved text? Also, you need to have been discussing these matters here in talk for some time before demanding references and deleting huge portions of the article. People need time to respond. Check the edit history, these arn't my contributions your deleting. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam]] [[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit&section=new '''Spade''']] 22:16, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 
 
:''I dispute mass deletions of text w/o a prior history of having communicated in talk.'' &mdash; That's nice; I dispute putting unsourced, irrelevant loads of bullshit into articles. However, though you didn't ask nicely, I'll explain:
 
:'''[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Reptilian_humanoid&diff=6834276&oldid=6833809 deleted]''':
Throughout the world, in apparently unconnected societies, the belief pervades that a Reptilian race lives beneath the Earth and interacts with the surface.
:This much is true and could be restored.
In most cases another race, tall and "[[Nordic]]" in appearance, is described. These were the "[[Elves]]" of European lore.
:They appear only in some Germanic folklore and mythology (which lacks reptoids, note), and this description isn't entirely accurate; see [[Elf]]. In any case it's irrelevant.
The Reptilians were often described as having a [[caste]] [[hierarchy]], in which the highest caste was winged.
:Weasel passive. Who describes them this way?
This correlates with information from current abductees, contactees and former government employees who have disclosed information regarding alien interaction with Earth-governments.
:This is unsourced conspiroid bullshit.
Many ancient peoples worshipped a serpent-God(dess) called [[El]] or [[Hel]], which was considered the God-Goddess of the [[Underworld]], the [[Moon]], and [[Venus]].
:What nonsense. See [[El (god)]] and [[Hel (goddess)]]. Hel was the Norse goddess of the underworld, true, but not a reptilian AFAIK.
These three locations (underground, the Moon, and Venus) are all described by abductees, former covert government employees, and the like, as being major bases for a reptilian species from the Draco star system who have been involved with this planet for at least two million years.
:More unsourced conspiroid BS.
 
:'''[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Reptilian_humanoid&diff=6834644&oldid=6834300 deleted]'''
See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Reptilian_humanoid&diff=6834300&oldid=6834276 version immediately before]. The whole thing is nonsensical. [[User:Mirv|&#8212;No-One]][[User talk:Mirv|&nbsp;''Jones'']]&nbsp;[[Special:Emailuser/Mirv|<sup>(m)</sup>]] 22:24, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 
:[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=Reptilian_humanoid&diff=6834875&oldid=6834703 '''deleted'''] everything from "A [[Nordic race]]. . ." onward:
 
None of this explains how it is in any way relevant to the subject of the article; it's nothing more than an unsourced collection of vague rumors and "legends" from Indian history. [[User:Mirv|&#8212;No-One]][[User talk:Mirv|&nbsp;''Jones'']]&nbsp;[[Special:Emailuser/Mirv|<sup>(m)</sup>]] 22:24, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 
As for this:
:''isn't there a general understanding on the wiki that removed text is to be replaced w improved text?''
Unsourced nonsense can be removed to talk for improvement at any time. Generally the author (and I understand that you didn't write much or any of this) is expected to be able to provide references for what he writes; if someone else wants to put the text back, they should be able to come up with references for it.
 
:''Also, you need to have been discussing these matters here in talk for some time before demanding references and deleting huge portions of the article.''
 
Since when? I saw stuff that was bogus; I removed stuff that was bogus; I asked for sources and references. If you want to put it back you are welcome to take responsibility for it; that includes citing sources and providing references. [[User:Mirv|&#8212;No-One]][[User talk:Mirv|&nbsp;''Jones'']]&nbsp;[[Special:Emailuser/Mirv|<sup>(m)</sup>]] 22:24, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 
==Pythagoras==
Since you're so intent on having the references to Pythagoras in the article, I expect you can provide references for all of this. What were these "events relating to serpents", who reported them, and what does the Python have to do with all this? I also recommend reading the comments by Muriel Gottrop and The Anome on the [[Talk:Reptilian humanoid/Archive|archive]]. [[User:Mirv|&#8212;No-One]][[User talk:Mirv|&nbsp;''Jones'']]&nbsp;[[Special:Emailuser/Mirv|<sup>(m)</sup>]] 22:26, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 
== Spacecraft ==
 
:''Ancient [[Sanscrit]] texts also refer to spacecraft and aircraft called [[Vimana]]. Nuclear debris has been found in regions said to be destroyed by 'the [[gods]]' in [[Kashmir]] and other locations throughout the Indian peninsula.''
 
Since you're also intent on reinserting this, I suppose you can a: provide a reference and b: explain what on earth this has to do with the topic of the article, i.e. [[reptilian humanoid]]s. Its relevance is not at all apparent to the average reader. [[User:Mirv|&#8212;No-One]][[User talk:Mirv|&nbsp;''Jones'']]&nbsp;[[Special:Emailuser/Mirv|<sup>(m)</sup>]] 22:28, 24 Oct 2004 (UTC)
 
== Clean the ancient part ==
 
I guess that a great deal of the ancient references are fabricated or stretched.
Can you mark clearly what parts we are sure that some ancient people believe?
 
:I actually don't know much about this aspect, my knowledge is mainly in regards to [[Nazi mysticism]] concepts of Hitler riding in UFO's w reptiloids under the antartic. My objections were to mirv removing 1/2 the article before others could come up w their facts. If anyone wants references as to the whole "underground/moonbase nazi ufo's w reptiloid friends" aspect, I can cite plenty of books for that. [[User:Sam Spade|Sam]] [[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/wiki.phtml?title=User_talk:Sam_Spade&action=edit&section=new '''Spade''']] 14:37, 25 Oct 2004 (UTC)
::Yes, but most of those books cite the same source. Anyhoo, Mirv has been doing a pretty good job maintaining this page in the wake of [[User:Khranus|Khranus]]' edits. --[[User:Viriditas|Viriditas]] 20:40, 16 Nov 2004 (UTC)
 
== Neofacism ==
 
Just out of curiosity, why are David Icke's views considered newfacist? While I certainly don't believe what he says, I haven't seen any facist agenda. [[User:66.90.158.156|66.90.158.156]]
: Have a look at his book, "And the Truth Shall Set You Free". It's a 491 page conspiratorial rant in defense of the "veracity" of the [[Protocols of the Elders of Zion]]. Icke has also been associated with [[neofascist]] groups and people ([[Ernst Zundel]]), and blames society's problems on an alleged Jewish conspiracy. This is standard, neofascist party line. Sadly, Icke attempted to co-opt the [[Green party]] before people caught on to what he was really about. --[[User:Viriditas|Viriditas ]] | [[User_talk:Viriditas|Talk]] 19:45, 30 Jan 2005 (UTC)
::Icke is not a racist, that is absurd. No matter how many times it is explained he believes lizards control the planet (and not Jews!) it doesn't matter for those with an agenda to destroy him. For people who get their info edited here, please come to my wiki(links on my user page) [[User:Conwiki|Conwiki]] 05:21, 22 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 
==NPOV: Needs references==
We need sources which say that the Mayans, etc. claimed to be shown how to make pyramids by reptiles. If the only source for this is conspiracy theory lit, then we need to indicate ''who'' is making these historical claims. Until then I think it's a tad bit POV (and ridiculous) to tell the pro-Reptilian interpretation of history with a straight face and without heavy amounts of qualification. --[[User:Fastfission|Fastfission]] 16:26, 23 Mar 2005 (UTC)
 
:I can dig up some references for some of the mythological claims. Unfortunately, the person(s) who wrote this article did not go back to the mythological/anthropological sources, but received a highly digested (and often seriously distorted or partial) version of the myths via the conspiracy literature. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 23:01, 5 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 
== Lizard Man ==
 
I'm surprised that the [[Lizard Man of Scape Ore Swamp]] is not mentioned in the article. I actually came across this "reptilian humanoid" article because I typed in "Lizard Man" in an attempt to find an article about those South Carolina swamp reports. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 02:31, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 
==[[Reptilian humanoids in fiction]]==
 
Moved the fiction (and [[User:Gtrmp|Gtrmp]] moved the game) discussion to a separate article, [[Reptilian humanoids in fiction]]. It will be a full article in itself, since they occur so often. Two advantages: this article here will be unburdened; the new fiction article will go into more detail. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 03:03, 7 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 
==NPOV tag==
 
Is it possible that we can remove the neutrality dispute tag here? [[User:DJ Clayworth|DJ Clayworth]] 02:55, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 
It should stay till we verify more of the mythological claims. [[User:Fastfission]] did right in putting that notice till we verify more. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 03:32, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 
==Example of an unverified claim==
 
If anybody wants these claims in the article, they should try to find a credible source for these claims:
 
:''"The Mayans speak of a reptilian species, referred to often as "Iguana-Men", who descended from the sky to take control of their civilization, teaching them the art of pyramid building as well as demanding human sacrifice.''"
 
---I've removed that claim from the article. A similar scenario is presented in various versions of the [[Book of Enoch]] (fallen angels rather than iguana-men, though), but I cannot trace that claim to an old Mayan source (did not find it yet in the [[Popol Vuh]] or the [[Chilam Balam]], both old Mayan books I've been searching through). [[User:Decius|Decius]] 08:01, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 
That claim, along with many others, was first added into the article at 5:01 9 Sep 2004 by an anonymous contributor, [[24.222.98.251]]. See [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=24.222.98.251]. That's the kind of material that needs to be verified, before the NPOV dispute can be settled. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 08:31, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 
More than "point of view", it's a problem of '''factual accuracy''' and the lack of it. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 08:36, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 
Another one from the same anonymous, 5:11 9 Sep 2004:
 
:''"Indian histories refer to a reptilian race called the "Sarpa", who founded civilization, creating the cannabalistic [[Dravidians]], being the source of the Hindu caste system (based upon a Draconian caste hierarchy, apparently) and demanded human sacrifice."''
 
Most of the myth-claims were added by that anonymous user. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 08:53, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 
I've been surfing the net, and found a number of webpages that quote past versions of this Wikipedia article as their authoritative source or something, without apparently questioning their source---their source was Wikipedia, and it was brought into Wikipedia by anonymous user [[224.222.98.251]] on Sep 9th, 2004. I'm trying to prevent Wikipedia from becoming a piece of shit, a piece of shit that is spreading shit across the internet. I want solid references for all the myth-claims at least. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 09:43, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 
The majority opinion is that anonymous user [[24.222.98.251]] was actually [[User:Khranus]], an individual who was not familiar with the basic methods of research into the paranormal, a field where anything less than precision leads to a juvenile mish-mash of factually worthless material---which brings us to his contributions. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 09:53, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 
If there are any such things on this planet as reptilian humanoids, you will not get to the truth of the situation unless you are scientific and accurate. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 09:59, 8 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 
==Reptilian Civilisation on Earth==
 
Go to Yonaguni, Japan, where a massive Lemurian (reptilian) temple still exists at the bottom of the ocean. Go to Cambodia and ask the local historians about the long legendary history of the Naga there, whom they say were a society of 7 Reptilian races "for the seven colours of the rainbow", who seeded their society and others, and once lived on an island or continent in the Pacific that sank. Go to numerous religious sites and ancient ruins, such as Ankor Wat or the Forbidden City, where Reptilian/Human hybridisation is extensively symbolised, particularly in the form of the Reptilianised Lion, the archetypal symbol, appearing in nearly all cultures worldwide (including those who lived near no lions, including China), for royalty. You can find this same symbol on basically all Federal Courthouses, run by the Temple Bar in England. You can also find numerous other symbolisms, including three rows of 13 windows on the facades of such buildings. Refer to the research into 'horizontally transferred DNA', and the unexplained transition from Reptilian to Mammalian gene sequences present in the genome of all humans on Earth. Refer to the fact that all Oriental-type races, whether Chinese, Cambodians, Inuit, Okanagan or Hopi Indians, and all Polynesian peoples, speak of an ancient continent in the Pacific region ruled by Reptilian, Lizard or Dragon overlords, symbolically represented as 7-headed, to represent seven races, organised into seven castes. Refer to the descriptions of vast underground systems of tunnels that the refugees of this continent escaped to, to found 'the underworld', the Sipapuni, Bhogavati, etc. Why does nearly every culture portray a seven or nine level underworld inhabited by Reptilian beings? Refer to the fact that all Sumerian-spawned cultures, such as the Medians, Scythians, Khazars, Magyars, Babylonians, Egyptians, Indians, possess a race-based caste system which the Sumerians said they based upon the hierarchy of their forefathers, the Dragon Gods. Explain why the races that possess these Reptilan traditions have copper-based pigments, higher incidences of caudal appendages at birth, and other reptilian characteristics, examples being the Australian Aborigines, the Oriental races, and Indians. Why is Indian folklore, mythology, and history, totally rife with bluebloods, Sarpa, reptilian gods, underworlds inhabited by Naga, and other correlated information. Why do the most ancient histories from every part of the world refer to two continents, now called "Lemuria" and "Atlantis", which possessed advanced technology, as outlined in these texts.
 
There is such a mass of evidence, of proof, that there was a Reptilian civilisation on this planet at some point in ancient history, that it truly cannot be denied.
 
Furthermore, I will tell you that I know for a fact that there indeed was such a civilisation. The Earth was colonised by beings from the Draco star system, who brought their genetic stock with them, those being dinosaurs, avians, and other Reptilian animals. Reptiles are a paraphyletic group, and do not originate on the same planet as mammals. They are distantly related, but that is another topic to be discussed at another time.
 
When the Draco colonised, the devastation caused by the gravitic liason between their artifical comet, now called Venus, and the Earth, brough landforms to the surface for the first time. Previously all of the Earth was covered in ocean, ranging from deep to shallow waters that covered most of the continents nearly completely. There were only amphibian-type lifeforms on the Earth at that time, as evidence by the fossil record. A mass extinction of crustaceans and shallow-sea lifeforms occured. This is also shown quite clearly. Suddenly, reptilian animals and their predecessors began to appear as a result of Draco colonisation of the newly formed continents, particularly one in the Pacific Ocean region. This continent was the largest ever to exist, and is now referred to as Lemuria. Parts of it are rising to the surface as a result of geological activity in the Hawaiian and Indonesian regions, including the Ache earthquake. Lemurian Temples depicting reptilian gods and figures still exist, as well as massive pyramids, on raised land in the Pacific.
 
Humans also colonised this planet, from the Pleiades star cluster, bringing with them many mammalian lifeforms, from which today's mammals partially evolved. They colonised a continent, now known as "Atlantis", which existed in the Atlantic Ocean region. This is not only documented in ancient accounts from many Native American tribes, including the Mayans and Aztec, who referred to it as Atzlan, but is also discussed by the Plejaren (Pleiadeians) themselves, in their face-to-face contact with the Swiss Farmer, [Billy Meier| "Billy" Eduard Albert Meier]. His contact case is proven fact. He is in contact with humans from the Pleiades. Refer to [http://www.theyfly.com Theyfly].
 
The Atlanteans and Lemurians eventually came to war with one another. There were also human colonists from Mars. These cultures engaged in world war, destroying much of their civilisations. This first World War resulted in the destruction, by ELF pulse weapons (the Atlantean military), of the substrata of the Lemurian continent. Remnants of the continent are still geologically unstable as a result of the nature of this destruction. New landforms and mountains were caused by the massive shockwaves of this crumbling continental destruction. An example of a remnant of Lemuria would be the West Coast of California, west of the San Andreas fault. This area collided with its adjacent tectonic plate, creating the mountains in that region, as well as raising the mid-ocean ridge, the Rocky Mountains, which were at that time highly volcanic, above the ocean surface. This is why one can find seashells and ocean artefacts in the foothills of the Rockys in Coloraod and Wyoming. Anyone who lives in Colorado Springs can attest to this.
 
The Reptilians from Lemuria who survived the destruction of their continent fled to Inner Earth colonies, in a massive underground tunnel system that spans the globe. Some Reptilians still exist in the Inner Earth.
 
The remaining Atlanteans destroyed most, but not all of the dinosaurs in their territory (except for relatively small avians and reptiles). However, dinosaurs still exist in the Inner Earth. This is the source of the "pulsating tissue" that is supposedly being extracted from 65 million year old T-Rex and other fossils.
 
Earth-humans, that is, you and I, or rather, our ancestors, were created through a series of experiments after a treaty was formed between the Lemurian survivors and the Atlanteans. This was presided over by a council, called Hanabu, of beings from Andromeda called Krel. A technological race from Sirius A was also involved. Many experimental humanoids were created and destroyed. This is the reason for all of the bizarre hominids that are being found, including the Flores Man. Cro Magnon was a prototype of the current Earth-man, and the remnants of this experiment exist today as the Basque people. They trace their history back to the Cro-Magnon.
 
Atlantis too sank over time as a result of the damage done by their own weaponry in an attempt to control the Inner Earth Reptilians. Eventually only a few large islands remained, but many small islands still exist as remnants (including most of the Caribbean Islands). By 11,000 B.C.E., the Atlanteans comprised a rather insane group of scientists who were toying with splicing just about everything they could get their hands on with anything else (shades of today's experiments). They created the creatures now known as Bigfoot (Bear-human) and Werewolf (wolf-human), Merfolk (dolphin-human), and others, through gene splicing using magnetics and Boson harmonics to transmit and alter DNA from one animal to another. These beings were used for slave labour, and as guardians to their scientific temples. This culture was the predecessor to Egypt. This is is the origin of the Anubis, which is the Egyptian word for the wolf-human hybrids. Currently Canadian researchers are uncovering physical proof that remnants of the Sasquatch race still exist in the wild, and that their DNA matches the human sequence, as well as that of the grizzly bear (Ursus arctos horribilis).
 
Historical texts from Atlantis are available for the few and privy in the Vatican's underground libarary, which spans 18 square miles. Former Vatican curators attest to this. Much of history was covered up and rewritten by the Vatican during the Middle Ages. During the Crusades, libraries were invaded and texts stolen and deposited in hidden locations, including that library.
 
The New World Order government, which now controls most of the Earth, are also very intent on releasing this information only 'at the right time'. If the population knew of any of this, it would destroy most religious institutions as well as invoke major questioning of current government and corporate policies which mimick the mistakes of the Atlanteans and Lemurians. The New World Order is essentially run by the same 313 royal families who helped cover up Atlantis and Lemuria originally, via their organisation, the Vatican. The 13 most powerful families in 1400 are still in control, and can be named, and documented to control most of the institutions that really matter, those that print the money, control public education, and control the media. They also have extensive influence in government through their frontmen, and control most intelligence agencies thoroughly, having founded the Mossad, CIA, and NSA to name a few. This is documented history, and is hardly hidden by anything other than ignorance. These 13 families were also the founders of various publically exposed conspiratorial schemes, such as the Order of the Illuminati. Secret Societies were the old-fashioned forms of intelligence agencies.
 
If people would turn off their TVs, take their kids out of public school, and get a grip on reality, things would change rather rapidly. The New World Order knows this, and are making an effort to implement more sophisticated mind-control technology to keep the population in line. They are also foolishly involved in their own internal war at the time, between two of the 13 families, and each of their allies. These families can be named as Rothschild and Windsor (Saxe-Coburg-Gotha). Watch them, and their pawns, and you will understand many of current events that otherwise appear chaotic--to the unwashed masses.
 
Do not be quick to dismiss any of this. Also, do not be quick to accept it. Just research for yourself. Never offhandedly dismiss or accept anything. Get out of the "label this, label that" mentality, and think clearly, methodically, and logically. Also, I will warn you, again, turn off your TV! Throw it out if you have to! TV is good for nothing but subliminal mind-control. TV news does not even report what is in the newspapers, and admittedly peddles government-funded propaganda (fake newscasts).
 
If you wish to refer to a source of information on the New World Order, a good synopsis of some of their recent criminal activities is [http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/011004Hasty/011004hasty.html Paranoid Shift] by Michal Hasty.
 
If the programming trigger, "conspiracy" flashes in your mind whenever you attempt to consider the possibility that there are criminal syndicates attempting to control a world government, I recommend the deprogramming article, also by Hasty, [http://www.onlinejournal.com/Commentary/092404Hasty/092404hasty.html Conspiracy and Other Theories].
 
There is a massive attempt to control the masses at this time, through mind-control and propaganda. I would recommend not to accept these lies. Facing the truth and dealing with it has always been a better solution than ignoring and dissociating. Dissociating from 'bad' stimuli is also a symptom of the common mental illness, dissociative identity disorder, which is induced in specifically as well as now, generally programmed individuals.
 
Investigate everything I say. Don't take anything from any source for granted. Be very wary of mainstream, corporate, and government news sources. [[Anonymous user|Anonymous]]
 
:I will not mock you or ridicule your ideas, but I believe you are being excessively paranoid. Reptilian humanoids may or not exist on this planet. There may or may not be a Reptilian conspiracy on earth. What I aim to do here is verify information that enters the article, because I want to present information to the public that is as close to accurate as possible. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 00:01, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)
 
:I'm also very careful when I remove information from the article. For example, I did not remove the info about the Australian aboriginal myths ([[User:Lacrimosus]] removed it), though I have not been able to find the source for those claims. I have to get some more books on Australian aboriginal folklore. [[User:Decius|Decius]] 00:12, 12 Jun 2005 (UTC)