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<div class="boilerplate metadata" id="Response ___location" style="{{divstyleamber}}">I will respond on this page to comments, unless you ask that I respond on your talk page.</div>
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# [[User talk:Plange/Archive1|start – August 2006]]
# [[User talk:Plange/Archive2|August 10 - end of August 2006]]
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== [[:Category:GA-Class (core) biography articles]] ==
Hi Plange, any reason why this category is named differently to the others? Could you fix it? --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 20:36, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
:If we look at [[:Category:Biography (core) articles by quality]] I see what you mean, since it is misleading you should be bold in changing it. [[User:Lincher|Lincher]] 21:25, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
::It's not a case of being bold, it's exhaustion after spending the last two or three days writing a plugin for WPBio, today making big changes to our template etc etc etc. I'm knackered and have a glass of wine waiting for me :) Just building some lists for my bot and testing my plugin, and then I'll be off. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 21:29, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
:::I'll fix it tonight (i'll be off work shortly), but not sure how? I didn't see a Move button on the Category page... If you're meaning changing it in the WPBio template I can't since I'm not an admin... Thanks for all your hard work, BTW!! [[User:Plange|plange]] 22:18, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
::::Lol, yes, you're right about the template and not being able to edit it :) I was so tired last night I forgot that. I'll rename the category in the template later when I try to fix the remaining bug. As for the moving of the category, unfortunately categories can only be removed manually - copy the old text over into the new category, include the names of the authors of the old category in the edit summary, and edit it. The old category then gets deleted. The same procedure is needed for changing the importance categories to priority. Let me know when it's done and which old cats need to be deleted and I'll attend to it. (Ordinarily, category renaming is done through [[WP:CFD]], and if the move is large a bot is employed to help out. I think we'll skip that as the job is small (just moving the categories themselves; the template will take care of moving the ''articles'' into the new categories), and as we're dealing with WikiProject infrastructure which is of no interest or consequence to other editors we can skip the bureacracy. But if you ever want the same done for main categories, [[WP:CFD]] is your port of call. Just so you know, future admins need to know these things :)).
::::I found a small bug in my plugin (pages containing only {{tl|Blp}} and not {{tl|WPBiography}} were getting the WPBio template added but Blp wasn't being removed, I was referencing the unaltered text variable rather than the text which has been through the "zap Blp" routine) so I didn't get my lists built last night. I'm just finishing off the articles which use Blp now, then I'll do a few more Living people manually before getting the bot back into action later today if all is well. Then I'll try to fix our template. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 10:06, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
== Re: Help with ref ==
Yeah, cite.php has been acting up lately. The way to fix it is to click on "edit this page", change the <tt>&action=edit</tt> in the ___location bar to <tt>&action=purge</tt>, and hit enter. [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] 01:33, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
== signature ==
plange, if you use something like "<nowiki>--~~~~</nowiki>" (where "--" is simply the most common separator) then your username will not mingle with wikilinks such as "Category: Burials plange". That will be helpful because your username looks like an ordinary word. --[[User:P64|P64]] 21:49, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
== Bob Dylan ==
Hi....I would be grateful if you would add your opinion to debate about current state of the Bob Dylan article, taking place on FARC page. thanks [[User:Mick gold|Mick gold]] 23:29, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
== Request assessment ==
Hi Plange...
...I've added the name of [[Michael Oliver (actor)]] to the assessment request list having tried to rescue this piece from vandals at the request of the person writen about.
...just in case you have any time free.
[[User:Trezjr|trezjr]] 16:32, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
==Eddie Fenech Adami==
Could you please explain your reason of this article being A-Class? I disagree with that rating. [[User:Green caterpillar|Green caterpillar]] 23:42, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
:Seemed pretty complete to me and all statements sourced. However, anyone is free to change it, though if you do, you should leave a detailed explanation as to why in the comments link in the project banner... --[[User:Plange|plange]] 00:52, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
::Wow, I wouldn't have put it at Start. Here's the definition of Start, which only has to have one of the elements:
*a particularly useful picture or graphic
*multiple links that help explain or illustrate the topic
*a subheading that fully treats an element of the topic
*multiple subheadings that indicate material that could be added to complete the article
And then B's definition is to have most of these, and since the article does have most of the above, it should be at least B. Do you truly think there's more information out there on this person? Please specifically state how it doesn't meet the definition of A-class, thanks! --[[User:Plange|plange]] 20:15, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
:Okay, maybe it should be B-class, but definitely not A-class. This article can be expanded with other websites such as [http://www.doi.gov.mt/EN/islands/presidents/efa.asp this]. The [[Eddie_Fenech_Adami#Early_life|Early life]] section, for example, can be expanded. The article is about 7.25 KB, not enough info for a complete description, as required by A-class standards. [[User:Green caterpillar|Green caterpillar]] 21:08, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
::let him know of this other source and your opinion of which section can conceivably be expanded. Size in K should not be a determiner though, but rather whether the subject a) has enough verifiable data b) whether subject warrants a longer article. --[[User:Plange|plange]] 21:12, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
== The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue IV (September 2006) ==
The '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/Outreach/Newsletter September 2006|September 2006 issue]]''' of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
<small>This is an automated delivery by [[User:Grafikbot|grafikbot]] 12:01, 5 September 2006 (UTC)</small>
== Re: Refs again ==
Nope, just a personal preference. I tend to follow the CMS pretty religiously, for what it's worth. ;-)
It's not productive to try and force a standard on the whole project because most of our high-quality articles have a very distinct primary writer (or a handful of primary writers) who tend to become somewhat upset when told that they cannot use their preferred citation style; while a lot of our featured articles do use the CMS style (which I have suggested for articles where the citations were a mess to begin with), a number of others (notably [[T-34]] among the recent promotions) use Harvard references instead. [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] 02:03, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
== John Floyd (Virginia politician) ==
Hi, sorry for reverting you at [[John Floyd (Virginia politician)]]; it wasn't intentional. I was removing links to that site added by certain IP addresses, because they added hundreds of links and continued after being warned. If you think that particular link is relevant, I don't have a problem. [[User:Wmahan|Wmahan]][[User talk:Wmahan|.]] 21:54, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
== DYK? ==
{| class="messagebox standard-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.png|Updated DYK query]]
|On [[7 September]], [[2006]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[John Floyd (Virginia politician)]]''''', which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|"Did you know?" talk page]].
|} <!-- [[{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}]], [[{{CURRENTYEAR}}]] --> (I'm filling in because an admin only managed to half-finish the DYK changeover) --<font face="sans-serif">'''[[User:Daniel.Bryant|Daniel]][[Special:Random|.]][[User talk:Daniel.Bryant|Bryant]]'''</font> 09:40, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
==Absence==
I just wanted to drop in and personally apologize for my on coming absence from the Great Wiki for the rest of this month, while I study for the LSAT. You've done so much work, that I can't help but feel guilty for vanishing. I'll be back in October, ready and rearing to do all that I can to help WP:Va. [[User: RebelAt|<font color="#3333CC">~ <font size="1" color="red">(The Rebel At)</font> ~</font>]] 04:22, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
== Biography ==
I added a comment at [[Talk:Biography#Complex insight]] which I was hoping might inspire a response from you. I realized much of our disagreement about the adequacy of [[Jackie McLean]] arises from my doubts about the utility of biography. [[User:John FitzGerald|John FitzGerald]] 13:29, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
==Thanks==
Thanks for the welcome, and also you have superb writing skills. Nice job with the John Floyd article. [[User:Dinosaur puppy|<font style="background:yellow" face="Fantasy" color="darkgreen">T REX</font>]]<sub>[[User talk:Dinosaur puppy|<font style="background:darkgreen" face="Tahoma" color="yellow"><b>speak</b></font>]]</sub> 04:55, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks! How did you know I'd worked on him? --[[User:Plange|plange]] 05:02, 9 September 2006 (UTC)
::I saw the DYK notice on this page. [[User:Dinosaur puppy|<font style="background:yellow" face="Fantasy" color="darkgreen">T REX</font>]]<sub>[[User talk:Dinosaur puppy|<font style="background:darkgreen" face="Tahoma" color="yellow"><b>speak</b></font>]]</sub> 17:48, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
Thanks for your work on the VA Project, you're really helping the community with your efforts. Try not to work too hard though ;) [[User:Joshua4|Joshua4]] 03:25, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
==Check this out==
Click here [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Templates_for_deletion/Log/2006_September_8#Template:Infobox_Scientist]
== [[User:Kingbotk/Plugin]] ==
Hi Plange. A first version of my plugin is ready. I've tested it with all sorts of weird and wonderful template instances and all seems OK. Basically, you load AWB as normal and you get some extra options. Select WPBiography and you get an options tab, just select the parameters you want to add and optionally the name of the category being trawled, and the plugin will automatically add the template (if missing) and set up the necessary parameters, remove obsolete templates/template names, etc. Do you want to try it? I'll add support for WPMilHist next.
Kingbotk is now back up and has fixed the British Royalty articles, currently he's replacing active importance= params with priority=. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 10:56, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
:Cool, but there was no link to download? --[[User:Plange|plange]] 23:08, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
::let me know when you're online and want to play, and I'll upload immediately. In the meantime I'll carry on testing as the changes required to implement [[User_talk:Kingboyk#Bot_tagging|this]] were quite substantial. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 20:15, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
::[[User:Kingbotk/Plugin]] - Release notes and '''download'''
::[[User:Kingbotk/Plugin/User guide]] - The manual
::I hope to add work on it some more tommorow (Martin's added a couple of extra properties to AWB for me which I need to test and make use of; I want to make the plugin useful for people doing assessments; and I want to add more templates. Of course I can't do all that tommorow but hopefully at least one of those can be released tommorow, along with any bug fixes etc.) --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 21:05, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Cool, no worries, I'm in no rush, I just thought I was looking in the wrong spot because I thought you said it was ready.... good luck and have fun! --[[User:Plange|plange]] 23:13, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
::::Didn't you see '''download''' in bold? :) It was ready last night (but Lincher couldn't unzip it). While I'm here, what's your current thoughts on adminship? --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 10:12, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::I did see the download but you said you had some more things to add so I thought I'd wait... Do you think I'm ready yet for admin? I hear it's pretty brutal :-P --[[User:Plange|plange]] 13:31, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
::::::Software's never finished! There's ''always'' something to add. I'd have thought you're ready. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 13:33, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::::Ok, taking a deep breath -- I think I'm ready to try for RfA --[[User:Plange|plange]] 01:12, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
::::::::If you'd like me to nominate you I'm quite happy to, but give it a few days - you know why I'm busy :) I take it you didn't find any bugs? I'm still worried that tearing open the meat of the code to make the template placement changes has introduced some little bug but I haven't had any rants on my talk page so I guess it's OK :) I'm working on the manual assessments feature at the moment for Lincher. Then I'll add support for other templates - is getting WPMILHIST supported high priority for you? You still have many military articles to tag? --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 09:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::That would be great (your nom), but I'm in no rush -- is it cool with you if I ask Kirill to co-nom? I don't know if he'll say yes, but thought it'd help me "run the gauntlet" easier with 2 such people helping! On the plugin, I didn't find any bugs, though I did find one tweak -- if I put {{tl|talkheader}} and {{tl|WPMILHIST}} in my "other options" area in the old section of AWB, it will make a space between it and the bio tag. I made sure I didn't have a carriage return after my prepend stuff. No biggie, just an aesthetic thing. It was great as it would have taken me a lot longer the old way when I ran across pre-existing tags and would have to carry them over, etc. I'm definitely interested in any support you can give for WPMILHIST as there's still tons of tagging to do there. I'll have to check out the Manual assess thing, sounds cool! Thanks! --[[User:Plange|plange]] 15:25, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::Please don't add talkheader to talk pages where this isn't controversy, imho it's just talk page clutter :) I think that might be happening because AWB always adds a linebreak after text it prepends. I could fix it but there doesn't seem much point as soon enough I'll add support for MILHIST. I'm a rather slow programmer as you may have noticed, but I think I have manual assessments nailed now so I'll finish that today and then get to adding support for that template. MILHIST will take a while because there's so many options, but adding other templates should be much quicker because of the way my code is structured - all templates will share base code for common tasks, and only differ where needed (thanks to [[Inheritance (computer science)|inheritance]]).
::::::::::Thank you very much for the barnstar! I've really worked hard (and full time) on this plugin, and had many sleepless nights, so a little recognition like that is lovely :) --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 08:37, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Adminship: edit summaries: get them up to 100%! :) --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 15:44, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
Did you try the latest version? I'd be interested to know if you still find bugs in the assessment feature. Also how's the speed for you? I found it quicker to use Firefox and tabs, not the plugin's fault though (you can see how quick it processes pages from the red/green light). --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 11:02, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
==DYK==
{| class="messagebox standard-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.png|Updated DYK query]]
|On [[12 September]], [[2006]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Wyndham Robertson]]''''', which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|"Did you know?" talk page]].
|} <!-- [[{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}]], [[{{CURRENTYEAR}}]] -->
== The Lake House ==
Dear Mr/Ms Plange, I brought back my Trivia comment on this movie, and added a link to an Imdb file on the Argentinian short "Líneas de Teléfonos" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0127658/ I hope now you won't delete it ;^D [[User:Fernando K|Fernando K]] 03:41, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
== Bio notices ==
Hi Sandy-- Just wanted to let you know that the place you're posting the bio notices for FARs isn't the one on the box on the FAR talk page-- It's not a big deal, but thought I'd let you know since sometimes I've already added it (as in the case of the last two you posted) and it would save you work if you're able to see they're already there :-) Thanks for all that you do! Here's the [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Biography/to_do|link]] --[[User:Plange|plange]] 23:27, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:oh, my ... I told you I'd forget :-) Thanks for the reminder ! [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy]] 23:30, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
==Thanks!==
Thanks a lot Plange. I'll keep helping in Peer reviews, since it is something I enjoy.--[[User:Yannismarou|Yannismarou]] 08:12, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
thx for the newsletter link!--[[User:I'll bring the food|I'll bring the food]] 22:55, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
== Thanks from Bob & mick ==
Many thanks for the Barn Star. I'm thrilled. An admin called [[User:Walkerma|Walkerma]] said I should get an award but I had no idea what form it would take. A book token? An honorary degree? Wikipedia Ambassador to the Court of St James? It was your footnoting expertise that gave me the idea I could provide the references. Thanks & best wishes [[User:Mick gold|Mick gold]] 09:26, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
== Thanks for the welcome ==
Thanks for the welcome, plange. I will do my best to continue submitting biographies about evangelical Christians and others – I'm currently working my way through the members of the Clapham Sect and other British abolitionists, as well as contributing the occasional article about journalists, typographers and illustrators who have worked on various newspapers, magazines and other publications. If there's anything else I can do, please let me know – although my available time is somewhat limited at present, I will do my best to help. – [[User:Agendum|Agendum]] 15:57, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
== Re: FAC question ==
FAC doesn't usually move all that quickly (except when an article is being buried under a landslide of objections, anyways), but not having people comment may be a sign that reviewers don't see progress on the nomination. I'd suggest working on the remaining objection; an article with three supports and no objection might actually pass. [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] 19:58, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
== User:Kingbotk/Plugin ==
The latest version of my plugin has just been released. It includes support for reviewing articles, rating them, and optionally leaving a comment. I hope you like it. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 18:44, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
:You da man!! --[[User:Plange|plange]] 18:51, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
::You haven't tried it yet! It might crash your computer and send out spam email for all you know! ;) --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 18:56, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
:::LOL, naw, you da man, it won't do that! --[[User:Plange|plange]] 22:20, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
OK I've now added WPMILHIST and WP Australia support. Will be uploading shortly. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 18:49, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think from your contribs it works :) I might have to do something about the edit summaries though.
:Anyway, as always, comments good ''and bad'' - and bug reports - are most welcome :) --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 21:32, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
== Oleg replies ==
He'll do it :) [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Oleg_Alexandrov&diff=prev&oldid=75841136]. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 19:30, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
:Whew! --[[User:Plange|plange]] 22:20, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
::Now implemented, as you'll see from the worklists. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 14:55, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
== Please vote ==
Hello, there. Please take the time to vote for the various candidates over at '''[[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biography/Core_biographies#Voting_booth|Core_biographies#Voting_booth]]'''. If you can, try to read a bit about the candidates you don't know about so you can get a better idea of how to vote. Thanks! [[User:SG|♠ SG]] [[User talk:SG|→Talk]] 10:44, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
== We need this! ==
Historical count/monthly changes. I want :) [[Wikipedia:WikiProject_Military_history/Assessment#Historical_counts]] --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 18:18, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
== Thanks, but... ==
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=War_Stories_%28Firefly_episode%29&diff=76106909&oldid=76094184] ...I'm actually a "he". ;) [[User:EVula|EVula]] 21:00, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
:oops, sorry, and someone just did that to me a few minutes ago [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:Featured_article_review#Notifications] calling me a he :-) --[[User:Plange|plange]] 21:02, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
::Perhaps we should form a support group (or, more applicably, a WikiProject) for users who constantly have their gender confused. "WikiProject I'm a he or a she, not a she or a he, dammit!" has a nice ring to it... [[User:EVula|EVula]] 21:08, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
:::LOL! Sounds good! Yep, been called a 'he' here a lot! --[[User:Plange|plange]] 21:10, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
==Do you like this ACW task force "Userbox"?==
[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Fix_Bayonets%21//Userboxes#ACW_task_force new ACW task force Userbox!]<br /><br />
--[[User:Fix Bayonets!|Fix Bayonets!]] 13:08, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
==Grammatical point well made==
With respect to secretive vs. secret you're correct of course.
However I can't help but feel there ought to be a word that would work better than "secret" in that context. Perhaps it's just me.
--[[User:Rydra Wong|Rydra Wong]] 19:30, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
== Headsup ==
Please see this thread: [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Musicians#Organisation_of_this_project.2C_scope.2C_and_templates]]. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 14:46, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
:I think this would be great, but want to say I like the solution of putting the line of scope for musicians as displayed in the video game template example rather than what happened with BRoy. Please see my carefully worded [[Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Biography/Arts_and_entertainment#Arts_and_Entertainment_Work_Group_-_Musicians|invitation to the same group]] that I worked out with Kirill who has been my mentor in trying to get groups to move to us - discussion [[User_talk:Kirill_Lokshin/Archive_II#Help_with_recruitment|here]] and [[User_talk:Plange/Archive2#Re:_Help_with_recruitment|here]]. The last link is particularly important, as Kirill points out that we don't gain anything if we don't have some control over the project. Plus, it's more work for us to create a different looking template (which sets a precedent like I'm afraid BRoy has become). This is not to knock your attempts for a merger, I would just like to be a part of them before you approach, if that's cool, so that we can have be on the same page. Thanks! --[[User:Plange|plange]] 15:02, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
::Yes, I'm not going to give them a custom design, it's too much work. They'd get a line like A&E (actually they'd replace A&E, if an article is within the scope of the musicians workgroup A&E wouldn't be displayed, since musician is more specific than A&E). Anyrode, chip in over there if there's any terms & conditions you need to lay down or anything I got wrong, OK? :) --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 15:09, 19 September 2006 (UTC) PS Do you feel able to add them to the template if they agree? It would be the same as the changes I made for Broy, except the style change. musician= overrides a&e; add their classification and other categories (which already exist); add a display line; fix up their cats to be children of ours etc. Getting towards complicated... (I don't know how techie you are but you seem pretty damn good so far!) --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 15:09, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
:::I think I can do it-- I'll test it in my sandbox first --[[User:Plange|plange]] 14:24, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
::::Here's [[User:Plange/to do|sandbox version]] -- I didn't know how to not show a&e if both params are on, but I did include a&e categories with the musician one so that they will still be in a&e's worklist, etc... (we should do the same for BRoy too) -- I didn't populate the categories or make the work group page as I wanted to have you take a look and make sure I named them correctly :-) --[[User:Plange|plange]] 04:18, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::OK, I'll copy it to my sandbox and test/tweak. Thanks for that!
::::*Leaving the British Royalty articles out of the main Royalty list is by design. I think if it's for our purposes only we should continue doing it that way - the lists are long already, why make them any longer by having an article on Henry VIII appear in 3 different lists? Of course the lists aren't just for our benefit, so perhaps you'd ask the WP1 folks which method they prefer?
::::*I added the 3 new WPBIO parameters and a new WPMILHIST workgroup to the plugin last night (but I haven't released the new version yet).
::::*I'll take a look at the category namings etc and get back to you.
:::::--[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 10:26, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
<--
*I've removed the code placing the Musicians articles into the A&E categories. As above I think we don't want to do that, and if we do we can probably do it by checking parameters in the a&e section rather than pasting the code.
*I think musicians and a&e can share the a&e needs-infobox/attention categories though, rather than making new ones?
*Categories look good to me. Can you turn them blue? They need to fit into our current scheme (be children of a&e) and also fit into the WPMusician's parent category.
*It occurred to me this morning that changing the KLF and Beatles templates won't be as straightforward as I imagined. Currently, if they have a parameter of living=yes or living=no they add the article to the A&E workgroup. Of course, those WikiProjects cover people with any connection to the bands many of whom aren't musicians. I can't, then, just change it to place them in the musicians categories. I suppose I'll need to add a new param or 2 to those templates and do ''another'' AWB run. Sigh.
*Need to update template instructions and project sidebar, and add our sidebar to their pages.
*New template has just gone live
*I'll do a run fixing up their template now, which will serve as a good test of the plugin's support for their template and our new template code!
--[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 10:49, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
Hey [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:A._R._Rahman&diff=prev&oldid=76970482 look at this] for a diff :) Not only replace {{tl|musician}} with WPBio but merge active params :) Cool huh? --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 13:06, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
:Sweet, did you do that with your plugin? --[[User:Plange|plange]] 14:48, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
::Yeah. I have it recognise musician as a valid instance of WPBio. It finds each instance of WPBio on a page, and then stores their parameters. This has the effect of merging the templates. If the parameters clash, e.g. the plugin finds a WPBio class=Stub and then a WPBio class=FA it'll skip that page and log it as a bad tag.
::One little glitch I just found though: [[Talk:Michael Jackson]] contains a valid musician tag, ''and'' an invalid WPBio tag. It finds the valid musician tag, so it assumes that's job done and processes the page. The plugin wasn't programmed to run the "second chance" looser regular expression if it found a valid tag, I mean why would it?! :) I'm changing and testing that now - even if it finds a valid tag it will run the second chance regular expression to look for bad tags. I don't think it will impact performance noticably as these regular expressions seem to be very fast. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 14:57, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
I've deleted the old musicians by importance and quality cats. They weren't hooked up to Mathbot so there's no old worklists to zap. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 16:06, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Template%3AKLF&diff=77018264&oldid=76997900 Hacking a template to bits]. Sigh. It works though! :) Next, WPBeatles, which is a nightmare of a template already. Wish me luck! --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 17:51, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
== GayFest GAN ==
It's right there on the [[WP:GAC|page]]: "You cannot choose an article you've significantly contributed to." ROnline has made the overwhelming majority of edits to that article, according to its history. [[User:Daniel Case|Daniel Case]] 22:45, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
:That refers to who is allowed to ''review'' not ''nominate'' --[[User:Plange|plange]] 00:14, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
::Right. ''Anyone'' can nominate a page, although - in actuality - the norm is for somebody who has been heavily involved in writing it to nominate. Only uninvolved persons may review the nomination however. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 10:19, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
==Re:Peer review==
Whoops, I thought that I only had to make this [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Peer review/Thomas Lee (Virginia colonist)|page]]. Thank you for finishing it for me. [[User:Dinosaur puppy|<font style="background:yellow" face="Fantasy" color="darkgreen">T REX</font>]]<sub>[[User talk:Dinosaur puppy|<font style="background:darkgreen" face="Tahoma" color="yellow"><b>speak</b></font>]]</sub> 15:26, 20 September 2006 (UTC)
== How many biographies are in scope? ==
I just checked several of the most important Russian writers and painters and was shocked to see that some very important ones (and also well-known in the Western world) are as yet not in scope of the Biographies Project (think [[Anton Chekhov]], [[Boris Pasternak]], [[Ivan Turgenev]], [[Kazimir Malevich]], [[Marc Chagall]] and [[Wassily Kandinsky]]). Which raises the question, how many more important persons are not in scope? [[User:Errabee|Errabee]] 11:18, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
:They're within scope, they probably just haven't been tagged yet. Please feel free to tag them - it will help us. Also, if you're interested in specifically Russian writers and painters and there are other editors you know who share that focus you might want to form a WPBio workgroup? --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 11:46, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
:Yep, we just started tagging things in July and given the large numbers of biographies we need to tag, we've just scratched the surface on tagging, so any biography articles you come across you can definitely help by tagging them :-) Thanks! --[[User:Plange|plange]] 15:15, 21 September 2006 (UTC)
== Re: Primary sources? ==
Hard question. The requirement that a primary source be published is intended to ensure that other people can check it; to what extent this applies to sources of which (presumably) only a single copy exists—but where said copy is available to the public—is something that's been debated on-and-off, but not something on which any firm consensus exists, to the best of my knowledge. It's not being used for a controversial point in this article, I think, so leaving it in (at least until somebody complains) may be the best approach here. [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] 00:47, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
==Biography template==
In my opinion including biography as a level 2 heading when the only thing diccussed in the article is the persons biography, then the hading is totally unnecessary. But where there is a biography and other stuff like important published works - like [[Max Weber]] that would be difficult to fit into the narrative of the article then it might be necessary.--[[User:Petaholmes|Peta]] 02:14, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
*I should add that each most biographies are quite different, so trying to apply a template to them is kinda hard. But in this case, I though the redundancy of the heading - when the conent was obviously a biography - was silly.--[[User:Petaholmes|Peta]] 02:16, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
== Barnstar ==
{| style="border: 1px solid {{{border|gray}}}; background-color: {{{color|#fdffe7}}};"
|rowspan="2" valign="middle" | [[Image:WMBarnstar.png|100px]]
|rowspan="2" |
|style="font-size: x-large; padding: 0; vertical-align: middle; height: 1.1em;" | '''The Worker's Barnstar'''
|-
|style="vertical-align: middle; border-top: 1px solid gray;" | I, [[User:Heaven's Wrath|Heaven's Wrath]], present this award to you in recognition of your exceptional hard work and tireless effort in helping [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Musicians|WikiProject Musicians]] work with [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography|WikiProject Biography]]. Wikipedia could use more dedicated contributors like you. <font style="border: solid 2px #CC5500; background-color: #FFCC00">[[User:Heaven's Wrath|<font color="#CC5500">''' Heav'''</font>]][[User:Heaven's Wrath/Esperanza|<font color="green">'''''e'''''</font>]][[User:Heaven's Wrath|<font color="#CC5500">'''n's Wrath '''</font>]]</font> [[User_talk:Heaven's Wrath|<sup><font style="border: solid 2px #CC5500; background-color: #FFCC00" color="#CC5500">''' Talk '''</font></sup>]] 22:15, 22 September 2006 (UTC)
|}
:Thank you!!!!
== GA nomination for John Floyd ==
I am the Good Article reviewer for the [[John Floyd (Virginia politician)]] article. You seem to be the lead editor for this article so I thought I'd let you know this: it's too long. I have absolutely no problem promoting this article to GA status. It meets all the requirements and is quite good. However, [[WP:WIAGA|GA criteria]] all but requires that articles be under 25kb. The current article is 36kb. According to policy, this means that the article should be edited so it meets [[WP:FA|Featured Article]] criteria, and then nominated for FA. I have posted a new section on [[Wikipedia_talk:Good article candidates]] in order to ask other reviewers what should be done. Please leave replies there. I certainly want to promote this to GA, but the rules... --<b>[[User:Tjss|Tjss]][[User_talk:Tjss|(Talk)]]</b> 20:29, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
:On the advice of others, I have promoted it. Good work! --<b>[[User:Tjss|Tjss]][[User_talk:Tjss|(Talk)]]</b> 21:17, 23 September 2006 (UTC)
== [[John William Vessey Jr.]] ==
As requested, I referenced the one source--the PDF file on the JCS.mil web site. This article is out of my normal area of interest. That is why I just converted the PDF file into an article. The man deserves a full listing considering his remarkable achievements. He became Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff without graduating from high school.[[User:Jmcneill2|Jmcneill2]] 18:17, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
== Bios lacking citations ==
Plange, [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Featured_articles_with_citation_problems#Biography here's the list] I came up with (from the list originally provided by The Disco King): while I was doing the work, I noticed many of them have not yet been identified as bios, but it was such a large task that I couldn't stop to add the bio tags. Hope this helps, [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy]] 20:08, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
:Whew, thanks! Just got through marking all them! --[[User:Plange|plange]] 22:01, 24 September 2006 (UTC)
== Re: New peer review? ==
See the second section of [[WP:MHPR#Requesting a review]], please. ;-) [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] 00:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
== Barack Obama ==
Plange, Thanks for your helpful comment on this article. I've just completed some more fixing. Do the quotes look OK now? Other suggestions for improvements? Kindly respond [[Talk:Barack Obama/Comments|here]]. --[[User:HailFire|HailFire]] 16:37, 25 September 2006 (UTC)
:Actually I was just the messenger :-) See post above: [[User_talk:Plange#Bios_lacking_citations]] -- If you'd like some more feedback, you might try our Peer Review dept at [[WP:BIOGRAPHY]] --[[User:Plange|plange]] 15:05, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
== Published, verification and easy of verification ==
Hello Plange, I didn't respond in your discussion at [[WP:V]] [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia_talk%3AVerifiability&diff=77070350&oldid=77065764] because I didn't see it. Your questions weren't well responded to. But WP:V's discussion pages have talked a lot about what, exactly, consitutes "published" and "verifiable". It has been agreed upon in the past that when a document (of any kind) is available at a public library, that it is "published" and "verifiable". Therefore your reference to a document held at a public library '''is''' a reference which Wikipedia accepts. Unfortunately, [[WP:V]] does not yet spell it out explicity. Probably the main reason it does not is because a lot of the editing is not done by experts whose interest and editing is in the areas you are contributing toward. Be of good faith ! Press onward ! Good luck ! [[User:Terryeo|Terryeo]] 14:52, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks Terryeo! I appreciate it, that makes sense :-) --[[User:Plange|plange]] 15:04, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
:: Here is what I would do. I would go ahead and consider any document which is in any public library to be verifiable. I would write the article, quote the document and treat it as if the New York Times had published it, for purposes of writing and referencing and citing. That is, treat that information as if it were widely published. At some point in the future it might be possible that someone would challenge some of that information. At that time the question, "is that information published", "is that information verifiable" might arise. When it does arise then that question can be delt with. But probably it won't arise. The other information which is mentioned by your google search, [http://books.google.com/books?vid=OCLC01754300&id=MBsLAAAAIAAJ&q=%22john+w.+johnston%22&dq=%22john+w.+johnston%22&pgis=1] but isn't spelled out exactly, I would recommend putting it on the website, the family website or whatever you are talking about there and then using that information as if it were published by the New York Times, citing that website. It is possible that information might be challenged. Challeneged based on it not being previously published by a reliable source. It is possible. But it is unlikely unless some nut case gets into that article and makes a major issue of whether the gentelman preferred blue or black socks, if you know what I mean? The very worst thing that would happen would be, some really tendentious editor could remove the reference to the information on the family website (or whatever that kind of website is called) and it would have to be placed as an "exterior link" or "further reading" kind of thing within the article you were using it as a reference. Wikipedia policy is a bit grey in this area because there are so many nut cases with personal (an sometimes offensive) websites. But good information has a good shot at standing in an article. Now, I've probably said too much, my wife yells at me when I do. heh. [[User:Terryeo|Terryeo]] 15:30, 26 September 2006 (UTC)
== WikiProject Military history Newsletter - Issue VII - September 2006 ==
The '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Military history/Outreach/Newsletter September 2006|September 2006 issue]]''' of the Military history WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
<small>This is an automated delivery by [[User:Grafikbot|Grafikbot]] - 19:54, 26 September 2006 (UTC)</small>
==Stephen Trigg==
Hey, I've given the article a copyedit, but I'm afraid I accidentally undid your most recent edit. You might want to go back and change whatever you were hoping to change in the first place.[[User:UberCryxic|UberCryxic]] 00:24, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
== Re: GA ==
My thoughts on this are pretty heavily colored by my general disapproval of the GA process, so you should probably take them with a grain of salt:
The essential problem, in my opinion, is that the GA system wishes to have, simultaneously, the ease of a single-reviewer process and the prestige of the more rigorous reviews. The only possibility of combining the two lies in the attempts to impose increasingly strict formal criteria that have been occurring recently; the more sensible approach taken by FA—where the interpretation of what the vaguely worded criteria may mean evolves through the consensus of the reviewers—is not available, since no consensus (or derivative thereof) is applied to individual articles during the normal GA process. The creation of more formal criteria, meanwhile, leads to the increasingly silly votes being taken (in which people who ''want'' the GA standard to be substantially below the FA standard are disproportionately influential).
I don't think, in general, that the GA system can be made to work as intended. Certainly it will not be taken very seriously if it allows uncited articles through; but there's really no good way of actually imposing citation requirements retroactively on a system that was designed entirely around informality and individual discretion.
(All of this is somewhat tangential to the current debate, of course, and I apologize for not having a more useful answer here.) [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] 19:44, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
:Wasn't GA working as it was intended until people ''started'' trying to make it more serious? Perhaps the problem here is including it in the WP1 assessment scales. GA was never meant to be a thorough process, more of a "[[Blue Peter badge]]" for "pretty good articles" which were too short for FA or not quite there yet. AFAIC, if an editor has serious pretensions (s)he should be going to FAC not GA (but getting GA first is not a bad idea). --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 19:56, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
::It's been staggering to and fro since its inception, alternately trying to sidle up to FA and moving far away from it, seemingly on the whims of the most active participants at the time. ;-) [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] 20:01, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
::(reply to kingboyk after edit conflict) Perhaps so, perhaps I shouldn't care, but since it is included in the scale, we're trying to make it fall in line with that. Also, we'd been hearing that GA was a joke because it was too lax, so we're trying to help with that. I like the process of going to GA as the next rung up towards FA, so that you know you're almost there and are ready for a PR, instead of just jumping in to a PR or FAC blind. I think the bigger problem is actually the protest by some that they shouldn't have to include inline citations in articles, which is a separate issue than GA, it's just that GA's changes have highlighted this split.... --[[User:Plange|plange]] 20:04, 28 September 2006 (UTC)
==Thomas Lee peer review==
I noticed that you mentioned about animosity between [[Thomas Lee (Virginia colonist)|Thomas Lee]] and [[Robert Carter I]], do you have any sources about this? This was new information to me and would certainly improve the article. [[User:Dinosaur puppy|<font style="background:yellow" face="Verdana" color="darkgreen">T REX</font>]]<sub>[[User talk:Dinosaur puppy|<font style="background:darkgreen" face="Tahoma" color="yellow"><b>speak</b></font>]]</sub> 01:13, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
:Sure thing! I got it from "The Virginia Dynasties: The Emergence of 'King' Carter and the Golden Age" by Clifford Dowdey -- if it's not at your library, let me know and I'll type out the relevant passages... --[[User:Plange|plange]] 01:17, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
::There's only one copy and unfortunately someone checked it out :(. If you have the passages that would great. [[User:Dinosaur puppy|<font style="background:yellow" face="Verdana" color="darkgreen">T REX</font>]]<sub>[[User talk:Dinosaur puppy|<font style="background:darkgreen" face="Tahoma" color="yellow"><b>speak</b></font>]]</sub> 01:29, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Sure thing-- I'll put them on the Talk page --[[User:Plange|plange]] 01:33, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
== Ben Savage - Project Wiki ==
Hi Plange...can you please add the name of [[Ben Savage]] to the WikiProject Biography? I have been spending time on the page this week. Thanks!
[[User:Trezjr|trezjr]] 02:10, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
:No problem! Done :-) You're allowed to add them to, and once you get comfortable with assessments, it's acceptable to self-assess up to and including B... Keep up the great work! --[[User:Plange|plange]] 02:13, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
===Thanks...===
Thanks so much--boy, you are fast.
I'm going to add "living" to it for the warning because the page was already semi-protected when I got there, due to persitent "death" listings recently.
Thanks again!
[[User:Trezjr|trezjr]] 02:18, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
== Michael Oliver ==
Can I trouble you to take a look at the [[Michael Oliver (actor)]] article as well?
I believe it has moved past the "Start" phase; I'd rather you do this one.
I have been in touch with this individual in an attempt to get a recent photo for the bio box--similar to what I did with the [[Ben Savage]] and to see what recent material may be available.
It's a tough egg to crack.
Thanks!!!
[[User:Trezjr|trezjr]] 02:29, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
== Stephen Trigg ==
I noticed that you seemed to be quite passionate about that particular article - even though your writing of it ''is'' professional and neutral in tone. I was wondering if you might have some connection to Colonel Trigg - and then I saw your bio-page ;) - [[User:Vedexent|Vedexent]] ([[User talk:Vedexent|talk]]) - 07:26, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
:Yep, he's a 4th-great-uncle :-) --[[User:Plange|plange]] 14:27, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
== Response ==
Hi Plange – in answer to your reply to my query - which I can't find at the moment (perhaps this page has been edited? – or maybe I placed it somewhere else). I asked why so many existing biographies are not included in the WikiProject listing – including many that I have personally worked on, and I remember you asked which these were.
Firstly, I'm sorry I have taken so long to get back to you. I'm totally new to working on this sort of project and in some things feel as if I'm going to need to be walked through with my hand held. I guess the answer could be that it's up to me to create new categories that these biographies fit neatly into – as they don't fit any that you have listed from the WikiProject category list page or on the Portal page.
I am working a lot on biographies of English Anglicans or British abolitionists – these are both existing categories (although not used with any consistency) and I would be loath to create **yet another** general category (I think there are already far too many – and many of these are quite unnecessary). If this is indeed how we get them listed on your "Master List", can we use either of these two? You can see the type of article I'm interested in from the list on my User page – I'm currently gradually revising and adding to [[John Newton]].
Cheers, – [[User:Agendum|Agendum]] 23:47, 29 September 2006 (UTC)
It might be better and easier if you respond privately on my Talk page – here: [[User_talk:Agendum|Agendum's Talk Page]]. Thanks. Any other criticism/input would be welcome.
== [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Article requests]] ==
What on earth is that page, Plange, and why does a supposedly new page have stale requests going back to 2004?!
It looks to me like that page should be blanked and started afresh or, better still, deleted. Thoughts? --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 18:21, 30 September 2006 (UTC)
:The only old thing is the cleanup part -- it's a transclude and I'm waiting on a bot to update the new one I made and they haven't run it yet... Let me bug the bot operator again... --[[User:Plange|plange]] 15:53, 1 October 2006 (UTC)
== Cite ==
Wow. I just looked at the talk page table of contents, and I think I'll put this off 'til the morning, when I can give it a fresh read :-) Thanks for the heads up! [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy]] 00:41, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
:ah, heck, I went ahead and weighed in, but the whole thing still seems to be driven by three or four people who don't want to cite. If you want to know what I thik is an appropriate level of citations, you can find it at [[Tourette syndrome]]. bah ... I should have taken time to formulate my arguments better, but I have no use for nonsense. [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy]] 01:51, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::I reverted the main page, but they've made such a mess of it that I'm not certain I reverted to a good version <sigh>. I think Kirill summed it up, and it's much ado about nothing. They aren't going to change [[WP:V]], and we can still ask for a cite any time on anything we want. Math and physics aren't above medicine, and medical articles in journals use multiple inline cites for just about every line. Keep me informed, if you don't mind: I'm around all week. I hope I reverted to a good version :-) [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy]] 02:08, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
:::I dropped a note to LuciferMorgan: other citers are Yomangani and Yannismarou. I can send more notes if it becomes necessary. [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy]] 02:16, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::::How about if I notify Yomangani (I know him fairly well), and you notify Yannismarou (I haven't interacted with him that often)? [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy]] 02:25, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
== Is it hopeless? ==
They're clearly not trolls and so it is not a matter of "do not feed the trolls" but I'm beginning to wonder the futility of it all. I really don't want to cease having Science articles on GA but it seems like this ''one single category'' of editors are harden against in-line cites. It seems like the only way to get peace is to agree to disagree and part ways. [[User:Agne27|Agne]] 22:53, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
:I'm starting to think the same thing. I asked Kirill, Walkerma, Yannismarou and Sandy to join in, and they helped clarify things and I'd hoped we wouldn't keep going in circles after that, as it seemed pretty clear to me. How many times (as you pointed out) do we have to point out that they can resolve these things at GA/R if they think we've gone overboard? Maybe being physicists they're looking for an exact formula of # of cites so they can know ahead of time before submitting something to GA so it won't end up in GA/R?? I'm getting frustrated too, as it looks like they've gone back to arguing in circles again.... Sigh. The funny thing is, that if they do only do their own grading (using A-class or GTA), once they try to take it to FA level, they'll have the same fight again as there's no way it will get through FAC without adequate refs... --[[User:Plange|plange]] 22:58, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::No, don't give in; they are an extreme minority, and giving in on inline cites will be to the extreme detriment of Wikipedia, which is already problematic in the amount of misinformation in the encyclopedia. The whole thing is absurd. Stick to it. You should see the end result, in the crap we have to clean up on FAR. When facts aren't cited, there is most often a reason, and they are most often wrong. These few are not representative of all of Wiki. [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy]] 23:06, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
:::I do think there is merit to development of a GTA but you are right about it hampering them in FA. The benefit of a GA review is that being "laypersons" we can give them a better view at how a layperson reader would encounter the article. (Much like the readership of the front page FAs). But they can't seem to realize that to make these articles accessible to ''non-specialist'' we need a bridge between the information and the source-rather then just "hope" that one of the mammoth books at the bottom of the page verify the information. I think Kirill, Walkerma, Yannismarou and Sandy have made several very sensible attempts at consensus but it has fallen on deaf ears. I, personally, would not go about de-listing the current science articles because I don't want to see this brew-ha continue. However, I am concern about what will happen the next time a science article is nominated. [[User:Agne27|Agne]] 23:09, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::::Wait til I delist [[attention deficit hyperactivity disorder]], and list all the reasons. Now I understand why Bravada wanted me to bring it to Review, so the case can be made. Problem is, the guy who reviewed it is a nice and helpful editor, new, trying to do his best, and I don't want to clobber him :-) [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy]] 23:18, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::I understand and you could probably do it in a gentle way that the reviewer will learn from it. I'm sure every reviewer has made some reviewing mistakes in their time. [[User:Agne27|Agne]] 23:21, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
::OK, before we get too far down the road of thinking that only lunatics oppose mandatory inline citations in GAs, tell me what happens in this scenario:
::*Brilliant written article from 2004, with references but no inline citations, gets FA
::*Article is defeatured because no inline citations
::*Article can't even get GA now
::*Overnight it falls from FA class to '''B'''.
::Furthermore, as I've said so many times, GA should not be too tough. People are coming in now who had nothing to do with the conception of GA and want to turn it from a little badge of recognition for half-way-decent-articles into a one-reviewer FA. It's called ''good'' articles. FA is what we aspire to, GA is merely a stepping stone along the way. --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 23:33, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
:::As you've seen, that scenario happens every day, and it doesn't trouble me. The articles that get defeatured have no editor watching and tending them; hence, probably have much bigger problems than inline citations, and shouldn't be featured if we can't be sure their two-year old info is still accurate. I wouldn't be so concerned about being tougher on GAs if someone over there would warn new GAs that they are nowhere near ready for FA: they typically go straight from GA to FAC, which is sad and embarrassing. [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy]] 23:41, 3 October 2006 (UTC)
I think ''across Wikipedia'' there has been a drive for higher quality in our articles (to paraphrase Jimbo, "we have the quantity, now let's up the quality"). The tighten in criteria for FA (and subsequently GA) is simply part of improving the overall quality of the project. [[User:Agne27|Agne]] 00:20, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
:Yep. Don't let a minority push through something detrimental, and don't let them think they can do it because they've rallied their forces to a straw poll :-) *Very* few people are even aware of this debate. [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy]] 00:32, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
::I can see your point. I was kinda disturb that they would so actively change/add/and delete the original poll. Really did make it useless. I think we agree that "token consensus" on a major guideline is not true consensus and as it states, this minority view is not enough to change the guideline. [[User:Agne27|Agne]] 00:40, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
:::It kept changing while I had multiple edit conflicts, trying to record my vote. Nope, better to just keep standing up to this proposal, which will harm Wiki. They should spend some time at [[WP:FAR]], where we have to deal with the uncited articles that are still around. I didn't know some people were so attached to those GA stars - I got one that I didn't ask for and wasn't ready for, because some other editor thought he could FAC my article before it was thoroughly referenced and still needing a copyedit :-) [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy]] 00:46, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
Whoah! Girl goes to dinner and comes back to a new whole round at WP:CITE! Diving in.... --[[User:Plange|plange]] 02:57, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
:Food? Dinner? What's that? [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy]] 03:02, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
::LOL! Yep, I know, I felt like a strange animal let out of the zoo :-) Friend of mine's birthday dinner at a nice restaurant - wine, food, chocolate, mmm.... --[[User:Plange|plange]] 03:20, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
== Fun with citations ==
I wonder what all the people complaining about inline citations will say when they see [[Battle of Ceresole|my new article]]! ;-) [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] 03:51, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
:Sure thing, if you have the time; the more comments, the better the article will (hopefully) wind up being. Thanks! [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] 04:00, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
== [[Alexander "Sasha" Spivak]] ==
I noticed you tagged the article with <nowiki>{{</nowiki>[[Template:db-bio|db-bio]]<nowiki>}}</nowiki>. I was about to do so, but I did a little [[Google]] testing, and the artist does seem somewhat notable, or at least something salvageable. As such, I've gone in and done a little cleaning, hopefully to make a case for either a full AfD or to keep it. I know it seems very un-notable, and I know how easy it is to just tag things assuming that it's vanity. Anyway, I'm not sure if I should put a <nowiki>{{hangon}}</nowiki> tag yet, but if you're okay with it, I might do so and try to keep the article up. Thanks! —<font color="8100b4">[[User:Keakealani|K]]</font><font color="2f690d">[[User:Keakealani/Esperanza|e]]</font><font color="8100b4">[[User:Keakealani|akealani]]</font> 05:01, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
:Uhm, never mind, it was already deleted. Oh well. Thanks anyway. XD —<font color="8100b4">[[User:Keakealani|K]]</font><font color="2f690d">[[User:Keakealani/Esperanza|e]]</font><font color="8100b4">[[User:Keakealani|akealani]]</font> 05:04, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
:(edit conflict) That's cool-- perhaps we should do an AfD instead -- when I Googled I couldn't find any reviews of his work-- just websites of their own or listing where he was showing. Lots of artists fall in this category. Person needs to show they will have an enduring legacy to meet notability, but perhaps all this can be worked out at AfD. (after conflict) oops, oh well, sorry! If they're notable though, someone else will add them back --[[User:Plange|plange]] 05:05, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
:Very true. Sorry to bother you and conflict and all that XD thanks for your reply! —<font color="8100b4">[[User:Keakealani|K]]</font><font color="2f690d">[[User:Keakealani/Esperanza|e]]</font><font color="8100b4">[[User:Keakealani|akealani]]</font> 05:07, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
::No worries - I'm just getting the hang of this, so totally open to feedback on if I'm doing things right or not -- in that vein, what would you do with [[Condefinism]] that just got posted? Looks like OR, but I guess that doesn't qualify for a speedy right? --[[User:Plange|plange]] 05:09, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Never mind-- someone just gave it a prod. I'll keep that in mind :-) --[[User:Plange|plange]] 05:12, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
==New Zealand Dictionary of Biography==
Hi Plange, First, thank you for welcoming me to Wikipedia - that is much appreciated. Second, am I right in thinking that the goal with the NZ Dictionary of Biography page on Wikipedia is to get articles on Wikipedia for all the mentioned people? There is no explanation of the point of the page on the page and nothing on the 'talk' page. Or is the goal of the page to write something ''about'' the New Zealand Dictionary of Biography? (Sub-text: I am well placed to write about some of the entries and it sounds like fun.) ([[User:Anarchia|Anarchia]] 19:52, 4 October 2006 (UTC))
:Hi Anarchia! Sorry it wasn't clear, I've modified the language to hopefully clear that up :-) But, yep, it's a link to articles that are in the NZ Dictionary but that we don't have and need to create, so that would be awesome if you want to help stubbing those out! --[[User:Plange|plange]] 20:30, 4 October 2006 (UTC)
== [[User:PlangeBot|PlangeBot]] and AWB ==
[[User:PlangeBot|PlangeBot]] has been approved to use [[WP:AWB|AWB]]. (By me) [[User talk:Alphachimp|'''Alphachimp''']] 02:38, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks Alphachimp! --[[User:Plange|plange]] 02:43, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
::Any chance of marking those bot edits as minor? Check the menus at the top. Thanks, [[User talk:Alphachimp|'''Alphachimp''']] 03:09, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
:::Oops, thanks for catching that-- done! --[[User:Plange|plange]] 03:14, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
::::Please lower your bot's edit rate to '''1 edit every 15-20 secs''' in the time being since it is approved but [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special%3ALog&type=makebot&user=&page=User%3APlangeBot NOT YET flagged] (as of this post), or else it would clog up recent changes. Once it is flagged you are more than welcomed to edit back as normal. Many thanks. --[[User:Winhunter|WinHunter]] <sup>([[User talk:Winhunter|talk]])</sup> 14:49, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
:::::Oops, again! Sorry, didn't know about the flagging procedure, just thought approval meant full steam ahead. Will do --15:22, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
== Invasion of the bots! ==
[[Image:WikiChevrons.png|left|thumb|For your diligent use of automated tools to the great benefit of the project, I hereby bestow upon you the ''[[WP:MILHIST|Military history WikiProject]] Distinguished Service Award''. [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] 05:22, 6 October 2006 (UTC)]]
Tagging... check!
Assessment... check!
All we need now is a bot to actually write the articles for us, and we'll be done! ;-) [[User:Kirill Lokshin|Kirill Lokshin]] 05:22, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
:Cool!!! Thank you! My first award from MILHIST! :-) --[[User:Plange|plange]] 05:24, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
== Music bios ==
(What a cool award!) Plange, I just left two music bio FARs on the Bio To Do list - not sure if those should be added? I always check "What links here"; since one of them linked to the Bio Project, I thought I should go ahead and notify, since they are living people. Let me know? [[Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/to do]] [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy]] 17:55, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
:Yep, that's cool, unfortunately we're now doing musical groups since we pulled in WikiProject Musicians as a work group :-) --[[User:Plange|plange]] 18:02, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
:OK, thanks. [[User:SandyGeorgia|Sandy]] 18:07, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
== Post ==
I responded to your post at [[Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Films#Reliable source?]]. [[User:Cbrown1023|Cbrown1023]] 20:00, 6 October 2006 (UTC)
== The Novels WikiProject Newsletter - Issue V - October 2006 ==
The '''[[Wikipedia:WikiProject Novels/Outreach/Newsletter October 2006|October 2006 issue]]''' of the Novels WikiProject newsletter has been published. You may read the newsletter, change the format in which future issues will be delivered to you, or unsubscribe from this notification by following the link. Thank you.
<small>This is an automated delivery by [[User:Grafikbot|grafikbot]] -- 20:21, 6 October 2006 (UTC) </small>
== Johnston ==
I'm getting through a copyedit, but the wine is almost gone, so some editing may have to wait until tomorrow. Your changes to the lead do help in terms of avoiding confusion but there is still excess language. A small example: watch your "howevers". The word is very rarely needed. I hope my edits are helpful and make sense.
Kudos on the article. A very interesting read. [[User:Marskell|Marskell]] 21:23, 7 October 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks Marskell, I really appreciate the help!! I'll give it another read through too and keep an eye our for the 'howevers' --[[User:Plange|plange]] 23:04, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
== About the Firefly project ==
Dear Angela, Just a quick note to let you know that I think you did an awesome job in organizing and implementing the Firefly project. I was cruising different project so see how the assessments are summarized and coded to link up with the front pages of each project and I liked yours the best--it is really elegant and effective. I'm hoping to be able to put something similar together for project Sweden, so I temporarily converted your design as a test in my sandbox to demonstrate how it works to the project participants. See the talk page for the [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Sweden#Assesment.3F Sweden project]. Hope you don't mind. Also: If we have problems making our version work, once it's been redesigned and given its own look, I'm hoping it's OK if I stick my head in here to bother you again. :) Best wishes, --[[User:Pia L|Pia]] 04:57, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
:Thanks! No problem in using whatever you need and let me know how I can help! --[[User:Plange|plange]] 23:05, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
::You are so kind! Thank you Plange. (I'm sorry I used the wrong pronoun on the Swedish project talk page. I didn't see your "About me" page the first time I visited your user page and then I forgot to correct it. It's done now.) Congratulations to the star! Well deserved. Best, [[User:Pia L|Pia]] 23:54, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
== My RfA ==
{| style="border:1px solid black; background:#FFFFCC; padding:3px;" align=center
|[[Image:Nuvola apps kfm home.png|80px]]
| Thank you for participating in my [[Wikipedia:Requests for adminship/NCurse|RfA]], which passed with a tally of '''91/1/4'''. I can't express how much it means to me to become an administrator. I'll work even more and harder to become useful for the community. If you need a helping hand, don't hesitate to contact me.
You wrote: "already thought he was an admin!". That's the best compliment a candidate can get. :) [[User:NCurse|NCurse]] <sub> [[User talk:NCurse|work]]</sub> 15:47, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
|}
:You're welcome! --[[User:Plange|plange]] 23:05, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
==Put the star!==
Come on, plange! Trigg desperately wants his star. Don't let him wait! Just put it! Congratulations!--[[User:Yannismarou|Yannismarou]] 19:50, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
:Oh cool!! I just signed in after being away for more than a day and my first inkling it'd passed was this note! I'm so excited as this is my first FA! Thank you so much for your help too!! Adding the star now :-) --[[User:Plange|plange]] 23:06, 8 October 2006 (UTC)
::Congrats! The first of many I'm sure.
::When I got my first I was surprised that the FA director didn't put the star on himself. I had to go to his talk and check "have you promoted it?" :) --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 18:24, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
==DYK==
{| class="messagebox standard-talk"
|-
|[[Image:Updated DYK query.png|Updated DYK query]]
|On [[9 October]], [[2006]], '''[[:Template:Did you know|Did you know?]]''' was updated with a fact from the article '''''[[Charles F. Mercer]]''''', which you created. If you know of another interesting fact from a recently created article, then please suggest it on the [[:Template talk:Did you know|"Did you know?" talk page]].
|} <!-- [[{{CURRENTMONTHNAME}} {{CURRENTDAY}}]], [[{{CURRENTYEAR}}]] --> --[[User:Petaholmes|Peta]] 12:34, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
== Tagging ==
Hi Plange. There's a new version of the plugin available; changes included the 2 buttons you asked for on the comments form (and 1 button ''I'' asked for :)). Haven't looked at the edit summary issue yet.
Also here's the politicians list. I removed a load of false positives by hand but it would nonetheless be worth having a sweep through it in Notepad to check for others. [http://www.sdk-software.com/AWB/Politicians%20(todo).zip] --[[User:Kingboyk|kingboyk]] 18:22, 9 October 2006 (UTC)
==Re: WPBiography==
You only added it to the code bit. I added it to the actual example for you and you can see what it looks like (seems I made a mistake with the table part... oh...) [[User:Ashibaka|Ashi]]'''[[User:Ashibaka/b|<font color="orange">b</font>]]'''[[User:Ashibaka|aka]] <small>[[User talk:Ashibaka|tock]]</small> 01:33, 10 October 2006 (UTC)
==Returned==
Hiyas Plange, I've returned to get into trouble. Before I just start randomly looking for something at the Virginia project, is there anything I can specifically address? P.S. Congrats on the FA![[User: RebelAt|<font color="#3333CC">~ <font size="1" color="red">(The Rebel At)</font> ~</font>]] 01:47, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
== [[User talk:209.32.71.18]] ==
Hope you don't mind, but I knocked your warning to the above user to a test4, he's gonna continue, and it'll bring the block about sooner. It's his 4th warning this evening. Cheers [[User:Khukri|'''Khukri''']] <sup>([[User_talk:Khukri|'''<font face="verdana">talk</font>''']] . [[Special:Contributions/Khukri|'''<font face="verdana">contribs</font>''']])</sup> 18:06, 11 October 2006 (UTC)
== Leads ==
(Comments from Plange)..See if you can expand the lead per WP:LEAD...
What's the point of doing a good and/or comprehensive lead on an article when these "choppers" come along and cut the life out of it.
Example:
from this...
Michael Oliver, (born October 10, 1981, in Los Angeles, California, USA), is an American film and TV actor and child star of the 1990s.
Oliver's motion picture debut at 8, in the comedy Problem Child (1990), was not the typical performance American movie-goers were used to seeing from red-haired, freckle-faced child actors (Eddie Hodges, Ron Howard, Billy Mumy, Johnny Whitaker). It was the "demon seed" role of "Junior", an orphan child no one could control and no one wanted.
The next year he reprised the character in the sequel, Problem Child 2 (1991), and this was followed by several TV appearances, before dropping out from the public view.
Junior quickly became Oliver's signature role, a role that follows him to this day.
Oliver, rather than fostering projects he participated in before the age of 10, remains a private person today more comfortable working behind the scenes out of the public eye.
to this...
Michael Oliver, (born October 10, 1981, in Los Angeles, California, USA), is an American film and TV actor and child star of the 1990s. He is best known for his role as "Junior" in two Problem Child movies.
[[User:Trezjr|trezjr]] 11:19, 12 October 2006 (UTC)
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