Talk:Mark Felt and Indiana Jones (character): Difference between pages

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Revision as of 21:55, 13 June 2007

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{{Indiana Jones character|

{{featured}}

image= [[Image:IndianaTempleDoom.jpg|Indiana Jones as portrayed by Harrison Ford|250px]]|

{{Mainpage date|January 8|2006}}

caption = [[Harrison Ford]] as Indiana Jones|

{{authoronlinesource2005|section=July 1-10

name=Henry "Indiana" Jones Jr.|

| author=David A. Garrett, Jr

gender=[[Male]]|

| title=Deep Throat Revealed

| datebirth= [[July 1]], 2005[[1899]]|

birthplace= [[Princeton, New Jersey|Princeton]], [[New Jersey]]|

| org=Media Monitors Network

occupation= [[Professor]] of [[Archaeology]]|

| url=http://usa.mediamonitors.net/content/view/full/16218}}

family = [[Henry Jones Sr.]] (Father)<br /> [[Anna Jones (Indiana Jones Character)|Anna Jones]] (Mother, deceased)|

actor=[[Harrison Ford]]<br/>[[River Phoenix]]<br/>[[Sean Patrick Flanery]]<br/>[[Corey Carrier]]<br/>[[George Hall (actor)|George Hall]]<br/>[[Doug Lee (voice actor)|Doug Lee]]|

first=''[[Raiders of the Lost Ark]]''|

}}

'''Dr. Henry "Indiana" Jones, Jr.''' (also known as '''Indy'''), is a [[fictional]] [[professor]], [[archaeologist]], and [[adventurer]] - the main protagonist of the [[1981 in film|1981]] [[adventure film]] ''[[Raiders of the Lost Ark]]'' (later retitled ''Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark''), its prequel ''[[Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom]]'', and sequel, ''[[Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade]]''. Jones is notable for his trademark [[bullwhip]], [[fedora (hat)|fedora]], [[leather jacket]], and [[ophidiophobia|fear of snakes]].

The character is most famously played by [[Harrison Ford]]; however, he has also been portrayed by [[River Phoenix]] (as the young Indiana in ''[[Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade]]''), [[Corey Carrier]], [[Sean Patrick Flanery]], and [[George Hall (actor)|George Hall]] (''[[The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles]]'').

In addition to his film and television appearances, the character has been featured in novels, comics, video games, and other media. A [[Indiana Jones 4|fourth film]] (once again starring Ford) is currently in production; filming is scheduled to take place throughout 2007, with the film planned to be released worldwide on Thursday, May 22nd, 2008.

==Merge==

==Production==

I removed and '''oppose''' a Merge notice to merge with [[Deep Throat (Watergate)]] - worth a discussion of course, but I think we should wait til this settles down though to see what info we end up with and how to best hash it out. --[[User:John Kenneth Fisher|John Kenneth Fisher]] 21:48, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

Indiana Jones is modeled after the strong-jawed heroes of the matinée [[serial]]s and [[pulp magazine]]s that [[George Lucas]] and [[Steven Spielberg]] enjoyed in their childhoods (such as the [[Republic Pictures]] [[serial]]s, and the [[Doc Savage]] series). The two friends first discussed the project in [[Hawaii]] during the time of release of the first ''[[Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope|Star Wars]]'' film.<ref name="makingraiders">"[http://www.indianajones.com/raiders/bts/news/news20030923.html Making ''Raiders of the Lost Ark'']." September 23, 2003. [http://www.indianajones.com/ IndianaJones.com]</ref> Spielberg told Lucas how he wanted to direct a [[James Bond]] film - Lucas responded that he "had something better than that".<ref name="makingraiders" />

The character was originally named Indiana Smith, after an [[Alaskan malamute]] Lucas owned in the 1970s; however Spielberg disliked the name "Smith", and Lucas casually suggested "Jones" as an alternative.<ref name="makingraiders" />

:I agree with the removal and would also tend to oppose, but we'll see how it turns out. &mdash; [[User:Trilobite|Trilobite]] ([[User_talk:Trilobite|Talk]]) 21:51, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

===Costume and equipment===

:Don't merge it. Felt was significant beyond his involvement in watergate. He was the highest ranking FBI official to ever be tried and convicted (he was later pardoned). This was for authorizing searches of private homes without a warrant. [[User:Ydorb|Ydorb]] 22:33, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

The general appearance for the character of Indiana Jones was chosen before anyone was even cast. He was envisioned as an amalgam of several characters - most notably treasure hunter Fred C. Dobbs (as played by [[Humphrey Bogart]] in ''[[The Treasure of the Sierra Madre (film)|The Treasure of the Sierra Madre]]''), and adventurer Harry Steele (as played by [[Charlton Heston]] in ''[[Secret of the Incas]]''[http://www.spookybug.com/origins/general.html]).

Upon requests by Spielberg and Lucas, the costume designer gave the character a distinctive silhouette through the styling of the hat; after examining many hats, the designers chose a tall-crowned, wide-brimmed [[Fedora (hat)|fedora]], the [[Herbert Johnson]] Poet. Although other hats were also used throughout the movies, the general style and profile remained the same. Other elements of the outfit include:

:'''oppose''': Even if, or when, Deep Throat's identity is confirmed, there are two distinct personas involved, and two parallel scenarios that will be complementary, rather than redundant. [[User:Ombudsman|Ombudsman]] 22:52, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

* The leather jacket - a hybrid of the "Type 440" and the [[A-2 jacket]], made by Wested Leather Co.

:(copied from [[Talk:Deep Throat (Watergate)]]) I support a merge. This seems to be the precedent set on Wikipedia with other articles involving individuals who were better known by handles or whose real name was unknown for quite some time. Examples of real-life "secret identities" of this nature are fairly rare, but one example is [[Theodore Kaczynski]]. We don't have a separate article for [[Unabomber]]; it's a redirect. (I don't mean to slight Mr. Felt by this analogy; it was simply the only other similar case of a widely-known alias that I could think of on the spur of the moment.) As with Felt, Kaczynski was known only by his alias for a long period of time, but we still have the article under his real name. [[User:Firebug|Firebug]] 07:14, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

* The bag - a modified Mark VII British gas mask bag.

* The whip - a 10ft Bullwhip crafted by David Morgan (although different lengths were used in specific stunts)

* The revolver - usually a [[World War I]] era revolver. Examples include the [[Webley Revolver|Webley Mk VI]] (''Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade''), or a .45 ACP [[Smith & Wesson]] Hand Ejector 2nd model revolver (''Raiders of the Lost Ark''). He has also been seen using a [[M1917 revolver]], and a 9mm [[Browning Hi-Power]].<ref>http://www.indygear.com/gear/guns.shtml</ref>

Jones's Fedora and Leather Jacket (as used in ''[[Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade]]'') are on display at the [[Smithsonian]]'s American History Museum in [[Washington DC]][http://smithsonianlegacies.si.edu/objectdescription.cfm?ID=125]. The collection of props and clothing from the films has become a thriving hobby for aficionados of the franchise.<ref>http://www.indygear.com/</ref>

:'''oppose''' for the reasons stated by Ombudsman and Ydorb.--[[User:Kristjan Wager|Kristjan Wager]] 13:31, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC) (added later, as I apprently forgot it before)

===Casting===

:'''Support''' an eventual merge for the reasons stated by [[User:Firebug|Firebug]]. But not yet; let's let the facts become clear and the story die down a bit. I say, wait a week and then merge. --[[User:Angr|Angr]]/[[User_talk:Angr|_{{{IPA|t&#596;k t&#601; mi}}}]] 10:36, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Originally, Spielberg suggested [[Harrison Ford]]; Lucas resisted the idea, since he had already cast the actor in three of his movies ([[American Graffiti]] and the first two installments of the ''[[Star Wars]]'' series), and did not want Ford to become known as his "Bobby DeNiro" (in reference to the fact that fellow director [[Martin Scorsese]] regularly cast [[Robert DeNiro]] in his films).<ref name="makingraiders" /> During an intensive casting process, Lucas and Spielberg auditioned many actors, and finally cast then little-known actor [[Tom Selleck]] as Indiana Jones, and [[pre-production]] began in earnest on ''[[Raiders of the Lost Ark]]''.<ref name="makingraiders" />

However, [[CBS]] refused to release Selleck from his contractual commitment to [[Magnum, P.I.]] (which was gradually gaining momentum in the ratings), forcing him to turn down the role.<ref name="makingraiders" /> After Spielberg suggested Ford again, Lucas finally capitulated, and he was cast in the role - less than 3 weeks before [[principal photography]] began.<ref name="makingraiders" /> If for whatever reason Ford had not landed the role, a possible third choice for the movie was thought to have been [[Dirk Benedict]], star of the [[Battlestar Galactica]] sc-fi TV series, though this was never offcially confirmed.

:What on Earth is wrong with a merger? Some say the Deep Throat article should be separate for the benefit of those looking into the history of speculation etc. Simple answer: Deep Throat (Watergate) would obviously be changed to redirect to W. Mark Felt, and the speculation as to Deep Throat's identity could be a sub-section only a click away from the contents box.

===Models===

:'''oppose''' because Deep Throat was a pop culture phenomenon. As far as the secret identity argument, there are separate articles for [[Clark Kent]] and [[Superman]]. [[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 15:36, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Many people are said to be the real-life inspiration of the Indiana Jones character - although it should be noted that none of the following have been confirmed as inspirations by Lucas or Spielberg. In alphabetical order by last name:

*[[Paleontologist]] [[Roy Chapman Andrews]].<ref>{{cite book|title=Dinosaurs in the Attic: An Excursion Into the American Museum of Natural History|first=Douglas J.|last=Preston|publisher=St. Martin's Press|year=1993|id=ISBN 0-312-10456-1}}, [http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0312104561&id=CaBxisxbAfwC&pg=PA98&lpg=PA98&sig=v0aO-D_rCrUl-IRZHI0RoexkydQ pp. 97&ndash;98], "Andrews is allegedly the real person that the movie character of Indiana Jones was patterned after... crack shot, fighter of Mongolian brigands, the man who created the metaphor of 'Outer Mongolia' as denoting any exceedingly remote place."</ref>

:'''Oppose''': these are separate entities. [[User:Ian Pitchford|Ian Pitchford]] 15:44, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

*Italian [[archaeologist]] and circus [[strongperson (strength athlete)|strongman]] [[Giovanni Battista Belzoni]] (1778&ndash;1823).<ref>http://www.filmsite.org/raid.html Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981)</ref>

* [[Yale University]] professor, historian, and explorer [[Hiram Bingham III]], who rediscovered and excavated the [[lost city]] of [[Machu Picchu]],<ref>[http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2005-09-22-peru_x.htm The trail less trampled on] in [[USA Today]] by Gene Sloan, September 23, 2005: "The iconic mountaintop citadel, discovered less than a century ago by American explorer Hiram Bingham, the inspiration for Indiana Jones, is a thrilling reward after days of exertion."</ref> and chronicled his find in the bestselling book ''The Lost City of the Incas'' in 1948.<ref>''[http://www.senate.gov/reference/reference_item/LostCity.htm Lost City of the Incas]'' biographical profile from the United States Senate website</ref>

*The [[University of Chicago]] archaeologist [[Robert Braidwood]].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://maroon.uchicago.edu/news/articles/2003/01/21/obituary_robert_and_.php|title=Obituary: Robert and Linda Braidwood|author=Molly Schranz|publisher=[[Chicago Maroon]]|date=January 21, 2003|accessdate=2006-09-21}}: "Some say he was the real life inspiration for Indiana Jones."</ref> <!-- This is questionable; if anything, "Professor BraidWOOD" sounds more like "Professor RavenWOOD". Also unable to find other sources saying he served "as inspiration for". -->

<!--Removed, as not cited as inspiration for. *Adventurer and [[King Kong]] creator [[Merian C. Cooper]] has been called a real-life Indiana Jones.{{fact}}-->

<!-- Temporarily removed; seems to be promotional fluff*Adventurer and anthropologist [[Schuyler Jones]]. "Dr. [Schuyler] Jones refers to the international belief that he is the 'original' upon whom the 'Indiana Jones' films are based 'as just a rumor'. [http://www.harrisliterary.com/jones.html] -->

*Colonel [[Percy Harrison Fawcett]] (1867 – 1925?), perhaps the most quoted source of inspiration to the character of Indiana Jones, was a British archaeologist who disappeared in the Amazon jungle in [[1925]] while searching for a lost city.<ref>[http://home.earthlink.net/~larryorcutt/fawcett.html "Colonel Percy Harrison Fawcett" by Larry Orcutt]</ref>

*Religious archaeologist [[Vendyl Jones|Vendyl "Texas" Jones]] once claimed that he was the inspiration, citing his names (he notes that his first name trimmed becomes Endy &mdash; very similar to Indy), but this claim has reportedly been denied by Spielberg.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.watchman.org/reltop/filmdig.htm|title=Film Claims Disputed; Dig Shut Down: Vendyl Jones' Claims Challenged|author=James Walker|publisher=The Watchman Expositor|date=2005|accessdate=2006-09-21}}: citing [[Texas Monthly]], "Lucas and Spielberg say they've never heard of Vendyl Jones" and the original 1973 script by Lucas predates Vendyl Jones archaeological claims that are the supposed inspiration.</ref>

* [[William Jones (philologist)|Sir William Jones]] (nicknamed "India") (1746 – 1794), who was an English philologist, judge, and founder of the Royal Asiatic Society.

*Mayan archaeologist and U.S. spy [[Sylvanus Morley]].

<!-- Temporarily removed;*The fictional character [[Allan Quatermain]].{{fact}} -->

<!-- Removed. According to the reference, he's been "compared to Indiana Jones", but the reference doesn't say he "served as the inspiration for Jones." *Explorer [[Gene Savoy]] [http://umanitoba.fitdv.com/new/articles/article.html?artid=383]-->

* [[Germany|German]] [[philologist]] and archaeologist [[Otto Rahn]] (1904-1939) [http://books.google.com/books?id=oB7pBZ3s6dIC&pg=PA159&lpg=PA159&dq=rahn+indiana&source=web&ots=XTezsjEyZ1&sig=qfT4iK63XCML1hYvVoaRiG4qeEw#PPA159,M1], whose (reluctant) membership in the [[SS]] stands in somewhat [[ironic]] contrast to the [[Americanization]] of the Indiana Jones character.

* [[Harvard]] professor [[Langdon Warner]] (1881-1955).

==Appearances==

:'''Oppose''', agreeing with all oppose voters above especially Jokestress. [[User:Samaritan|Samaritan]] 15:45, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

{{Main|List of Indiana Jones appearances}}

Since his introduction in [[1981]]'s ''Raiders of the Lost Ark'' (later retitled on VHS and DVD box covers as ''Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark''), he has made appearances in two more feature films, a three-season TV series, dozens of novels, [[Indiana jones comics|comic books]], video games, [[Indiana Jones (role-playing game)|role-playing games]], and even his own [[Indiana Jones Adventure|amusement park rides]].

[[Image:IndianaJ.jpg|right|thumb|220px|Harrison Ford and Sean Connery on the set of [[Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade]].]]

===On Film===

:'''Oppose''', for reasons I set forth in the debate on the Deep Throat talk page. [[User:Plainsong|Plainsong]] 20:35, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

The initial trilogy of theatrical films (starring Harrison Ford) comprised of:

*''[[Raiders of the Lost Ark]]'' (1981) - set in [[1936]]

*''[[Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom]]'' (1984) - set in [[1935]]

*''[[Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade]]'' (1989) - set in [[1938]]

In 1992, a [[television]] series named ''[[The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles]]'' was first produced; the series aired from 1992 to 1996, and featured a 17-year-old Jones ([[Sean Patrick Flanery]]), a 93-year-old Jones ([[George Hall (actor)|George Hall]]), and a 10-year-old Jones ([[Corey Carrier]]). The show chronicled Jones's early life, beginning with his childhood travels with his father and carrying through to the solo journeys of his youth, his activities during World War I, and beyond. ''The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles'' was originally conceived by Lucas as [[edutainment]], a vehicle to educate children about key historical events and important individuals. To this end each episode features an appearance by an important historical figure of the time integrated into the story. In one of the later shows, Harrison Ford (while filming ''[[The Fugitive (1993 film)|The Fugitive]]'') briefly reprized the role of Jones in a [[cameo]] appearance.

:'''Oppose'''; the history of various speculations on DT's identity would seem to be unnecessary to an article on Felt. [[User:MisfitToys|MisfitToys]] 22:05, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

The upcoming [[Indiana Jones 4|fourth Indiana Jones movie]] is in an advanced stage of pre-production, and is scheduled to be filmed in [[June 2007]] for a [[May 22]], [[2008]] release.<ref>[http://www.cinemafusion.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/official_indy_4_release_date_may_22_2008/ Cinema Fusion]</ref>

:Superman is a comic character. Felt isn't.

===Video Games===

:'''Oppose''' - A merger with the [[Deep Throat]] article should not be rushed, even though we now know that Felt is Deep Throat. As Angr said, let the facts become clear first and some time pass, then look at merging the two articles.<br>

The character has appeared in several officially licensed video games, beginning with adaptations of [[Raiders of the Lost Ark (Atari 2600)|''Raiders of the lost Ark'' for the Atari 2600]], ''Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom'', and two adaptations of ''[[Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade: The Graphic Adventure|Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade]]'' - one action oriented, one with a more overt adventure bias.

:[[User:Jesster79|JesseG]] 22:39, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

Following this, the games branched off into original storylines with ''[[Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis]]'', ''[[Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine]]'', and ''[[Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb]]''. Development was headed up by [[Hal Barwood]], and each game starred [[Doug Lee (voice actor)|Doug Lee]] as the voice of Indiana Jones.

:It makes no sense to merge the articles. The decades of speculation, and forever changing of the face of journalism have essentially nothing to do with Mark Felt. Deep Throat is more than just Mark Felt. And, Mark Felt is more than just Deep Throat. [[User:2005|2005]] 23:34, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

A [[Indiana Jones 2007|new ''Indiana Jones'' video game]] is in development by [[LucasArts]], and is expected to coincide with the release of the upcoming fourth film.[http://lucasarts.com/games/indianajones/]

==W.==

==Fictional character biography==

Can anyone investigate what "W." stands for and include it in the full name? &#8212;[[User:Cantus|Cantus]]&hellip;[[User talk:Cantus|<big><big>'''&#9742;'''</big></big>]] 17:43, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

Indiana Jones is an [[archaeologist]] who divides his time between teaching at prestigious [[colleges]] and [[universities]], and field work - generally involving the "obtaining of rare [[Artifact (archaeology)|antiquities]]". Jones's activities often involve some personal risk, in some cases originating from rivals attempting to secure the same item. Advocating that "X never marks the spot", Jones is a strong believer in the value of painstaking research; however, he is also well known for occasionally taking shortcuts where necessary.

While his main area of expertise is archaeology, his secondary specialization is [[linguistics]]. He speaks a total of 27 languages to greater or lesser degrees, including [[Ancient Greek]], [[Latin]], [[Sanskrit]], [[Arabic language|Arabic]], [[Standard Mandarin|Mandarin]], [[French language|French]], [[Italian language|Italian]], [[German language|German]], [[Spanish language|Spanish]], [[Portuguese language|Portuguese]] and [[American Sign Language]].{{fact|date=May 2007}}

:Yeah, I have been trying to track that one down, without success so far. &mdash; [[User:Trilobite|Trilobite]] ([[User_talk:Trilobite|Talk]]) 17:56, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Jones believes that archaeology is the "search for fact - not truth" - as opposed to [[philosophy]].

:No idea either. I looked through court documents. NG but I did find some more bio details that need to be covered "On December 10, 1980, the Department of Justice moved for dismissal of the case against Gray. The district court granted the Department's motion and the case was nolle prossed. Felt and Miller were later tried and convicted. On March 26, 1981 they were given a full and unconditional pardon by President Reagan." [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lotsofissues lots of issues] | [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lotsofissues&action=edit&section=new leave me a message] 18:04, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

''(Note : - the events in this timeline are drawn only from officially licensed media released or developed directly by [[LucasFilm]] or [[LucasArts]]. Novels, comics, and other ''[[expanded universe]]'' materials are not included, unless officially accepted as canon. Unless otherwise noted, events are sourced from The [[Young Indiana Jones Chronicles]])''<ref>{{cite news | title = Official Indiana Jones character timeline | publisher = Lucasfilm | date = 2007-01-23 | url = http://www.indianajones.com/marshall/character/indianajones/ | accessdate = 2007-01-23}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | title = Unofficial Indiana Jones character timeline, including [[Expanded Universe]] | publisher = www.theraider.net| date = 2007-01-23 | url = http://www.theraider.net/information/timeline/index.php | accessdate = 2007-01-23}}</ref>

I asked the anon who said it was Walter to provide a reference, but so far he hasn't bothered. I wonder if we ought to take this out. "Walter Mark Felt" returns no results in Google, and I'd much rather we had missing information than wrong information, with all the people that will be coming to look at this article. &mdash; [[User:Trilobite|Trilobite]] ([[User_talk:Trilobite|Talk]]) 18:33, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

===''The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles''===

:I've taken it out. The 9-page interview in Vanity Fair makes no mention of "Walter", and it would be very easy for someone to introduce errors like this. Best to err on the side of caution until we can find a reference. &mdash; [[User:Trilobite|Trilobite]] ([[User_talk:Trilobite|Talk]]) 18:38, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

Indiana Jones was born Henry Jones Jr. to [[Scotland|Scottish]]-born [[professor]] of [[Medieval literature]] Dr. [[Henry Jones Sr.]] and his wife Anna Lauren Jones on [[July 1]] [[1899]], in [[Princeton, New Jersey|Princeton]], [[New Jersey]]. His birth certificate shows the address of 10 Creighton Avenue, Princeton, NJ. Although his father calls him "Junior," Henry Jr. adopts the name of his beloved [[malamute]] [[dog]] "Indiana", insisting he be referred to as "''Indiana'' Jones" ("Indy" for short). It is unclear exactly when this decision is made - however, he was already being referred to as ''Indy'' by his peers at the age of 13.[http://www.theraider.net/information/timeline/childhood.php]

[[Image:Corey Carrier.jpg|left|thumb|Corey Carrier as 9 year old Indiana Jones.]]

::I agree it could not be verified. BTW who the hell would tell their 8 year old kid the identity of deep throat? ('88 summer camp incident) [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lotsofissues lots of issues] | [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lotsofissues&action=edit&section=new leave me a message] 18:50, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

In [[1908]], Henry Jones Sr. embarks on a lecture tour around the world together with his wife and then 9 year old son. Numerous adventures ensue for the young Indiana Jones, including following an underground railroad in the Carolinas, meeting [[T.E. Lawrence]] in [[Cairo]], archaeologist [[Howard Carter]] in the [[Valley of Kings]], [[Princess Sophie von Hohenberg|Princess Sophie]] (daughter of [[Archduke Franz Ferdinand]]) in [[Austria-Hungary]], [[Leo Tolstoy]] in [[Russia]], and visiting [[Nairobi]], [[India]], [[China]], [[Paris]], and [[Florence]].

[[Image:Indiana Jones and the Cross of Coronado.jpg|right|thumb|A 13 year old Jones played by [[River Phoenix]] holding the [[Cross of Coronado]].]] In 1912, Jones is a [[Life Scout]] with the [[Boy Scouts of America]] in [[Utah]]. In April of that year, Indiana's mother Anna Jones contracts [[Scarlet fever]] and dies. Shortly after her death, Jones (whilst on a Boy Scout trip) attempts to secure the [[Cross of Coronado]] from thieves (''Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade''). This incident forms the 'origin' of many of Jones's personal trademarks; one of the villains can clearly be seen as the inspiration for later costume choices, Indy first attempts the use of the [[bullwhip]] (receiving a small scar on the chin that would stay with him to adulthood), and he is given his first [[Fedora (hat)|fedora]]. It is also during this incident that he first develops a strong fear of snakes. Three years later, Jones (at the urging of his father) enrolls at [[Princeton University]]. During a [[spring break]] trip to [[Mexico]], he is kidnapped by Mexican revolutionaries and reluctantly plays a part in the [[Mexican Revolution]], under [[Pancho Villa]]. When he leaves Mexico, he travels to [[Ireland]], then England, and finally [[Belgium]] where he joins the [[Belgian Army]].

::: Name is William as per [http://www.cnn.com/2005/POLITICS/05/31/deep.throat/index.html] --[[User:John Kenneth Fisher|John Kenneth Fisher]] 21:45, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

He joins the [[Western Front (WWI)|Western Front]], participating in the [[Battle of the Somme]]. During a [[Germany|German]] attack, he is taken prisoner. With the assistance of [[Charles de Gaulle]], he manages to escape and is assigned to the [[France|French]] army as a courier. He is sent to [[Africa]] and [[Commissioned officer|commissioned]] as a [[lieutenant]]. His inability to read a [[map]] causes him to lose his intended unit, and he instead joins the historic [[25th Royal Fusiliers]] of the [[British Army]], commanded by [[Frederick Selous]] - a team collectively known as "The Old and the Bold". Amongst other missions, the team destroys a German train-mounted cannon, and briefly kidnap the German military genius [[Paul Emil von Lettow-Vorbeck]]. During his stay in Africa, Jones becomes ill, and is treated by [[Albert Schweitzer]] (in the process meeting [[Barthélémy Bouganda]]). Shortly after his recovery, he is transferred back to the [[French Army]] and assigned a position as an [[spy|intelligence officer]]. Jones worked for [[French Intelligence]] for the remainder of the [[First World War]], going on undercover intelligence missions to [[Austria]], [[Barcelona]], [[Russia]], [[Prague]], [[Turkey]], [[Romania]], [[Italy]], and [[Istanbul]].

::::Excellent. Now I wonder whether this ought to be at [[W. Mark Felt]], or at [[Mark Felt]]. Many news sources are leaving the W out. Anyone have a view on this? &mdash; [[User:Trilobite|Trilobite]] ([[User_talk:Trilobite|Talk]]) 21:51, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

[[Image:YoungIndianaJones.jpg|thumb|right|Sean Patrick Flanery as young Indiana Jones.]]

:::::I feel that we should write [[W. Mark Felt]], and perhaps have a redirect from [[Mark Felt]].--[[User:Kristjan Wager|Kristjan Wager]] 13:28, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

Shortly after the end of the war (in [[1919]]), Jones embarks on an expedition to retrieve the [[Eye Of The Peacock]], a large [[diamond]] once owned by [[Alexander The Great]], traveling through [[Alexandria]] and [[Java]], eventually arriving in the [[South China Seas]]. Unable to recover the diamond, he returns to France and takes a position as a [[translator]] at the [[Paris Peace Conference]], becoming involved in the production of the [[Treaty of Versailles]], once again meeting [[T.E. Lawrence]]. He then returns to [[Chicago]], where he earns an [[undergraduate degree]] in archaeology, takes up the [[soprano saxophone]], and briefly works as a stuntman on an early [[John Ford]] [[Western (genre)|western]].

After completing his studies, he enrolls in a [[linguistics]] graduate program at the [[Sorbonne]] where first meets [[France|French]] archaeologist [[Rene Belloq]], a student studying for his [[Master's degree]] in archaeology. Belloq manages to win the Archaeological Society Prize with a paper on [[stratigraphy]], the majority of which was plagiarized from Jones' work. After completing his graduate program, Jones is hired for his first [[professor]]ial post at [[London University]]. The head of the university's archaeology department, Joanna Campbell, invites Jones to a dig in [[Whithorn]], [[Scotland]], on an expedition to investigate the legend of [[Merlin]]. There meets his future wife, Campbell's daughter Dierdre. Their marriage was cut short when she was killed in a plane crash during an expedition to [[Brazil]] in April of 1926.

==Confirmation==

Confirmed by Woodward; [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/article/deepthroat31.html]

Jones begins studying post-graduate [[archaeology]] at the [[University of Chicago]] under Professor Abner Ravenwood, also entering into a romantic relationship with the Professor's young daughter [[Marion Ravenwood|Marion]]. For reasons which are not documented, Jones leaves the Ravenwoods in approximately 1926, leading to a rift with Marion and his former mentor. After completing his [[Ph.D.]] in archaeology, Jones begins operating under the [[patron]]age of [[Marcus Brody]] (a friend of Jones's father who, in conjunction with prestigious [[museums]], funds archaeological expeditions and digs), and begins a regular post teaching [[Archaeology]] at Marshall College in [[Connecticut]]. (''Raiders of the Lost Ark'')

The Washington Post article cites Ben Bradlee as confirming Felt, he is one of the four men who knows the identity; [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/article/deepthroat31.html]

[[Image:Indiana Jones 2.jpg|thumb|200px|left|Harrison Ford as Jones in his Professorial role.]]

==Clap==

It's gushy and weak, I know, but good work; I came home for tea and scones, and searched Wikipedia for 'mark felt' and there was nothing. This would have been about 17:00 GMT. Now, there is an article. And a picture. The gasman has taken me hostage; my knee is not purple. However, with regards to this article, [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/article/deepthroat31.html] does Woodward ''explicitly'' state that Mark Felt is Deep Throat? The paragraph beginning "Woodward said Felt helped The Post..." seems ambiguous, and I'm surprised that the headline isn't "Post's Woodward confirms Felt etc".-[[User:Ashley Pomeroy|Ashley Pomeroy]] 22:29, 31 May 2005 (UTC)

In [[1935]], Jones journeys to Ceylon (now known as [[Sri Lanka]]) to retrieve the idol of Kouru Watu, in the process meeting [[Nazi]] Albrecht Von Beck for the first time. Following his return to America, he is retained by the [[Chinese government]] to recover a mystical gem named [[The Heart of the Dragon]] from the ancient tomb of a Chinese emperor. (''[[Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb]]'')

:From the linked article:

::''In a statement today, Woodward and Bernstein said, "'''W. Mark Felt was 'Deep Throat' '''and helped us immeasurably in our Watergate coverage. However, as the record shows, many other sources and officials assisted us and other reporters for the hundreds of stories that were written in The Washington Post about Watergate."''

:—[[User:Cantus|Cantus]]&hellip;[[User talk:Cantus|<big><big>'''&#9742;'''</big></big>]] 23:08, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

===Feature error? films===

Immediately following these events, Jones travels to [[Shanghai]], where he is hired by the gangster [[Lao Che (character)|Lao Che]] to retrieve an artifact: an urn containing the remains of the emperor [[Nurhaci]]. Jones agrees to locate and recover the urn, in return for the Eye Of The Peacock, which has somehow come into Che's possession. He manages to retrieve the remains, and meets Che in a Shanghai club to perform the exchange. However, he is [[double cross]]ed and barely escapes with nightclub singer [[Willie Scott]] and his accomplice, a local boy named [[Short Round]]. Fleeing Lao Che, the group arrive in [[India]], where a group of villagers gets him to recover the [[Sankara Stones]] from the [[Thuggee]] (followers of the [[cult]] of [[Kali]]) (''Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom'').

In [[1936]], he travels to [[Peru]], to retrieve a golden [[Hovito Idol]] - however he is thwarted by his long time nemesis, archaeologist [[Rene Belloq]]. Upon his return to Marshall College, he is contracted by the [[United States]] [[government]] to retrieve the [[Ark of the Covenant]] before the [[Nazi]]s, who are at this time rising in power in [[Germany]]. Jones travels to [[Nepal]] to retrieve the Headpiece to the Staff of Ra - an artifact said to be capable of showing the final resting place of the Ark. In Nepal he once again meets [[Marion Ravenwood]], who is running a bar named ''The Raven''. After Marion's bar is destroyed by a team of [[Nazi]]s, the duo enter into a partnership to retrieve the Ark before the Nazis. (''Raiders of the Lost Ark'')

How could Ronald Reagan have pardoned anybody of anything in 2001?

In [[1938]], Jones manages to recover the [[Cross of Coronado]] during a field trip to the [[Portugal|Portuguese]] coast - upon his return donating the artifact to [[Marcus Brody]] for museum display. Shortly after these events, he is contacted by [[Walter Donovan]] regarding the abduction of Jones' father by the [[Nazi]]s. Working with [[Austria]]n [[historian]] Dr. [[Elsa Schneider]], Jones manages to rescue his father from custody, and (together with [[Marcus Brody]]) they attempt to retrieve the [[Holy Grail]] before Donovan, Schneider and an [[SS]] officer named [[Colonel Vogel]] (''Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade'').

:Yes, I noticed that too and corrected it, it was 1981 not 2001. [[User:Columbia|Columbia]] 22:42, May 31, 2005 (UTC)

In May of [[1939]], Jones, following a visit by agents of the [[Third Reich]], discovers that the [[Nazi]]s plan to harness the power of [[Orichalcum]]. He collaborates with former pupil [[Sophia Hapgood]] in a quest to disrupt the [[Fuhrer]]'s plans, in the process locating the lost [[continent]] of [[Atlantis]] (''[[Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis]]'').

Another date problem: How could Hoover promote Felt on July 1st of 1972 when he himself died on May 2nd, 1972? [[User:Brendansa|Brendan]] 20:39, June 2, 2005 (UTC)

[[Image:Mo 37.jpeg|thumb|right|199px|Harrison Ford, in a cameo for an episode of ''The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles'', set in 1951.]]

In [[1947]], while on an archaeological dig in [[Utah]], he is retained by the recently formed [[Central Intelligence Agency]] to investigate unusual activity in [[Kazakhstan]]. Jones discovers that rogue agents of the [[Soviet Union]], led by [[physicist]] [[Gennadi Volodnikov]], are searching for ancient [[relic]]s that form the mechanism of the [[Babylon]]ian Infernal Machine - originally housed in the [[biblical]] [[Tower of Babel]]. Jones, aided once more by [[Sophia Hapgood]], attempts to recover the artifacts before the Soviets (''[[Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine]]'').

== Rolled back plagiarim note ==

==Artifacts==

An anon had added a note that some of the article was plagiarized, but the article in question was previously cited at the bottom. I reverted the note without any other changes. [[User:Siroxo| ]]&mdash;[[User:Siroxo|<font color=#627562>siro</font>]][[User talk:Siroxo|<font color=#627562>''&chi;''</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Siroxo|<font color=#627562>o</font>]] 01:03, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

* Idol of Kouru Watu (''[[Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb]]'')

* [[The Heart of the Dragon]] (''Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb'')

* [[Nurhaci]]'s Ashes (''[[Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom]]'')

* [[Sankara Stones]] (''Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom'')

* [[Hovito Idol]] (''[[Raiders of the Lost Ark]]'')

* [[Ark of the Covenant]] (''Raiders of the Lost Ark'')

* Cross of Coronado (''[[Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade]]'')

* [[Holy Grail]] (''Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade'')

* [[Atlantis]] (''[[Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis]]'')

* Infernal Machine (''[[Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine]]'')

==Unclear canonicity==

== Washington Post reaction ==

As seen in the original versions of 'The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles', Jones (in [[1993]], at the age of 94) lives in [[New York City]], and has a daughter and several grandchildren. The exact age of the daughter is not explicitly mentioned; however given her appearance it seems reasonable to place her between 30 and 40 years old. For a [[1999]] video release, George Lucas opted to completely remove George Hall's bookend sections from 'The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles', and consequently their [[canon (fiction)|canon]]icity (and that of Jones' daughter and grandchildren) has become unclear.

As is often the case with expanded franchises, many of Indiana Jones's adventures within his ''[[expanded universe]]'' contradict the LucasFilm/LucasArts canon. The novel ''Indiana Jones and the Dinosaur Eggs'' states that Jones meets the smuggler Wu Han in 1933 - however it is later established in the videogame ''Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb'' that he meets the character in 1935.

New York Times has an interesting piece on [http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/01/politics/01press.html reaction at the Washington Post]. The scoop by Vanity Fair clearly caught them off guard. Throughout the day, they denied, then changed headlines on the same article numerous times:

== Influence on popular culture ==

"The Post's confirmation of Deep Throat's identity appeared on the paper's Web site in the form of a news article, but with a variety of headlines. It said that Mr. Woodward had confirmed Deep Throat's identity, but without a quote from him. It then said that The Post had confirmed the identity. Later, it went back to saying Mr. Woodward had confirmed it."

Whilst himself arguably a [[pastiche]] of various prior [[adventurers]], the character can also be seen as a forerunner to (or in some cases direct influence on) other more recent fictional adventurers of a similar nature. These include:

* [[Lara Croft]], the self-styled [[Tomb Raider]] of the eponymous franchise

* Jack Colton, a [[mercenary]] and treasure-hunter seen in ''[[Romancing The Stone]]''

* Ben Gates, a [[cryptologist]] featured in the 2004 film ''[[National Treasure (film)|National Treasure]]''

* [[Symbology]] professor [[Robert Langdon]], protagonist of the novel and film ''[[The Da Vinci Code]]''

* [[Rick O'Connell]], an adventurer and treasure-hunter seen in the 1999 film ''[[The Mummy (1999 film)|The Mummy]]'' and ''[[The Mummy Returns]]''.

* The latter-day adventures of [[Dirk Pitt]], Special Projects Director of NUMA (the [[National Underwater and Marine Agency]])

* Sydney Fox, a female archaeologist and [[martial arts]] expert, star of the television series ''[[Relic Hunter]]''

* Johnny Thunder, an adventurer and archaeologist from the [[Lego Adventurers]] building toy theme.

* The "Cliffhangers" series of stories in the online comic strip ''[[Irregular Webcomic!]]''. This includes a spoof of Indiana Jones, (Montana Jones, North Dakota Jones, and Minnesota Jones )

The character of Indiana Jones has been directly referenced by several video game characters , such as : -

Among the headlines:

* Alabama Smith, protagonist of the ''[[Paganitzu]]'' computer game series

* [[Rick Dangerous]], as featured in the eponymous video game by [[Core Design]]

Various Indiana Jones references have found their way into popular culture:

* Woodward confirms Felt is 'Deep Throat'

* Numerous references in ''[[The Simpsons]]''; most notably in the episode "[[Bart's Friend Falls in Love]]", in which Bart recreates the opening sequence of ''[[Raiders of the Lost Ark]]'', with Homer doubling as both the angry Hovitos and the huge boulder.<ref name="SimpsonsParody">"[http://www.theindyexperience.com/zip_file_archive/simpsons_chase_video.zip] [[Simpsons]] parody of ''Raiders of the Lost Ark'', featuring [[Bart Simpson]] as Indiana Jones." January 23, 2007.</ref>

* FBI Official Was 'Deep Throat'

*In the Simpsons episode ''[[Kiss Kiss, Bang Bangalore]]'', in which the Nuclear plant is outsourced to [[India]], [[Mr Burns]] refers to a dinner engagement, where the main meal is 'scooped out monkey head' (a reference to ''Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom'').

[[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 05:20, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

* A short parody near the beginning of ''[[The Rugrats Movie]]'', featuring a rolling boulder and the iconic theme. [[Tommy Pickles|Tommy]] calls himself 'Okey Dokey Jones', and carries a bullwhip (although [[Chuckie]] is dressed more like Jones with a Fedora hat, brown leather jacket, brown shoes, and bag)

* Another parody character was ''Mississippi Smith'', who had a cameo role in ''[[Aaahh!!! Real Monsters]]''

* In the opening sequence to the film ''[[UHF (film)|UHF]]'', [["Weird Al" Yankovic]] parodies the opening scene from the first movie

* In an episode of the [[NBC]] television show ''[[Friends]]'' ("[[The One with the Cooking Class]]"), [[Ross Geller]], a [[paleontologist]], is compared to Indiana Jones by a potential girlfriend - much to his delight: '''''Katie:''' A paleontologist who works out... you're like Indiana Jones.'' '''''Ross:''' ...I '''am''' like Indiana Jones!''

* In the popular online game ''[[World of Warcraft]]'' (during the [[Instance (World of Warcraft)|instance]] known as ''Uldaman'') the player encounters a quest for a staff and an amulet, which must be combined and placed within a miniature city (echoing the scene from ''Raiders of the Lost Ark'')[http://www.eeggs.com/items/47546.html].

* In the 2006 movie ''[[Pirates of the Carribbean: Dead Man's Chest]]'', [[Captain Jack Sparrow]] (in a homage to a similar scene in ''[[Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom]]'' involving Jones's Revolver) is shown trying to draw his [[sword]], pausing for a moment as he realizes it is not there, then grinning sheepishly before the action continues. Also, on Cannibal Island in Dead Man's Chest, Captain Jack Sparrow running down the beach away from the Pelegostos giving chase appears to be an homage to Indy running from the Hovitos in Raiders of the Lost Ark, including a shot where for one moment the crowd appears closer to him than shown in the rest of the chase.

* Indiana Jones makes an appearance in the [[Adobe Flash|Flash]] movie ''[[Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny]]'', where he trips a [[zombie]] [[Abraham Lincoln]] with his bullwhip, and attempts to shoot [[Godzilla]] (only to realize, in a tribute to ''[[Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom]]'', that his revolver is missing). He is later defeated by a kick to the [[groin]], delivered by [[Chuck Norris]].

*The TV series [[Family Guy]] has several scenes in several episodes parodying or paying homage to Indiana Jones. One is a parody of the Raiders scene where Indy is attempting to remove an idol and replace it with a bag of sand, and whilst preparing, Ralph Kramden shouts, " WILL YOU JUST PICK IT UP ALREADY?! ". Also, in order to find his black book, Peter goes into the attic and uses a stick and an amulet to focus sun beams at the ___location of the book. In the famous Peter vs. Chicken fight in the episode '[[Da Boom]]', the eponymous chicken is eventually killed in a manner identical to (even mimicking the sequence shot for shot) the German in ''Raiders'': minced by a flying wing propeller. Also, in an episode in which Peter and his son Stewie go to a Disney Park, they steal disguises from the Indiana Jones ride, Peter dressed as Indy and Stewie as Short Round from The Temple of Doom. Stewie also portrays Short Round in one of the "quick-cut" scenes in which he accidentally triggers a trap and then remarks; "Lady only here cause she doing director."

*In another episode of [[The Simpsons]], the character 'Snake' appears wearing a similar outfit to Jones (complete with hat, jacket, and bag full of gold coins) stating that he is an archaeologist.

* Chip from the 1989 Disney cartoon series [[Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers]], appears wearing a fedora as part of his costume, the rest of his outfit resembles Jones's, but only in color as the jacket appears to be sheepskin, not leather.

* [[Kevin Smith]] has referenced Indiana Jones several times in his films, most memorably in ''[[Dogma]]'' where [[Silent Bob]] hurls antagonists Bartleby and Loki from a moving train, only to turn to the other passengers and 'explain' "No ticket!", a homage to the sequence in ''The Last Crusade'' where Indy throws Colonel Vogel from the Zeppelin's window with the same 'explanation' to the Zeppelin's passengers. Smith has also included minor references, such as [[Randal Graves]]'s "No time for love, Dr. Jones!", a quote from ''Temple Of Doom''.

* [[Muppet Babies]] made reference to Indiana Jones, namely when Baby Kermit would imagine himself as "Indiana Frog" with the same fedora, leather jacket and whip. One particular episode had the Muppet Babies searching for Baby Animal and overcoming their fear of the basement, believing it to be the Temple of Doom, in which they were trapped by Mola Ram and saved by Indiana Frog. Live action footage of the film combined with their adventures, namely the mine car chase scenes.

* Indiana Jones also appeared in posters promoting the [[public library]]. In one particular poster he is using his bullwhip to snag on to a branch in order to avoid a poisonous snake, and he is firmly holding library books in the other hand. The poster tells children the importance of bringing back their library books on time, with the words "Return the Adventure!" written in same style lettering on the film posters.

* [[ALF Tales]] spoofed "The Last Crusade" in an episode parodying the tale of [[King Midas]]. ALF is dressed as Indiana Jones, who is hired by King Midas (who has transformed his family into gold) to find the Holy Grail as it has the power to return them to normal. ALF is assisted by his girlfriend Rhonda who is an expert on the Grail. Several scenes are referenced, such as Indy's fear of snakes, which Rhonda tells him not to imagine them as snakes (ALF succeeds at somehow having them transform into cows, which Rhonda claims she is terrified of), or having to select the true Grail from a selection of several. (In this case, the True Grail is a coffee mug which reads "Bud's Donuts").

* [[Malcolm in the Middle]] spoofed Indiana Jones running from the boulder in the Season 4 Episode 13 "Stereo Store". Hal has a choice to stay and help close up the store with the boss or go party with his much younger, slacker co-workers. When he chooses to go party his boss hits the button that makes the metal security gate begin to close. Hal sees the security gate begin to drop and tries to beat it. While making a run for the door a cup of pencils gets knocked over into the fan making them projectiles that just narrowly miss Hal, much like darts when Indiana Jones is escaping the room with the golden idol. The door continues to close and a beach ball starts rolling after Hal. He looks back at it, screams and begins to run faster. He narrowly slides under the gate and reaches back under the gate at the last minute to grab his keys, similar to when Indy rolls under the door and reaches back to grab his whip. All the while the "Raiders March" music plays in the background.

* In the game [[Discworld (video game)|Discworld]], the main character [[Rincewind]] parodies the sand bag change from Raiders of the Lost Ark in a puzzle, he is then chased out of the cave by a boulder which eventually turns out to be a tiny pebble that was zoomed upon.

* At one point in [[Matthew Reilly]]'s [[Seven Deadly Wonders]], the characters are at the bottom of a ramp with a pipe at the top (inside a booby-trapped temple). When a rumbling comes from the pipe, one of them remarks, "Let me guess. A boulder is going to roll out of there and chase us down, just like in ''[[Raiders of the Lost Ark]]''."

* Sometimes, in the video game [[Lego Star Wars II]], if the character of Wedge Antilles had had his blaster holstered for a while, when you tried to draw it, you would draw nothing but air, then he would check his other hip, find it there, and finally draw it, a possible homage to the scene from ''Temple of Doom''.

* In Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls there is a shot similar to the escape by Indiana from the Hovitos, where Ace is running across a grass plain with the Wachutu Tribe following behind him.

* In the video game [[GTA: Vice City]], in the mission Dildo DoDo you have to fly a water plane used in an "old Indy movie". This is referring to the water plane used in the first of the Indiana Jones movies, Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark.

* The video game [[Quackshot]], starring [[Donald Duck]] has several references to Indiana Jones, including the logo, clothing and scenes from the movie.

==Template DVD release ==

=== The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles ===

Can we please keep the merge template off this page, it is currently linked from the main page and is almost certainly being read by hundreds of people. We don't need to mar a perfectly good article with an ugly template. Once this is all died down perhaps we can have a proper debate on whether separate articles are desirable. - [[User:SimonP|SimonP]] 13:01, Jun 1, 2005 (UTC)

As detailed in the revised and updated edition of the book ''George Lucas: The Creative Impulse'' (by [[Charles Champlin]]), Lucas has been working for some time on drastically re-editing and restructuring the show for a [[DVD]] release. According to a statement by series producer [[Rick McCallum]] of [[Lucasfilm]], this work has been 'ramped up' in order for a boxset release to tie in with the theatrical debut of the as-yet-untitled fourth movie. Amongst other extras, the discs will include approximately 100 new historical featurettes, now in production. Major structural changes are alleged to have been made to the show, including the complete removal of the 93 year old Jones 'bookend' sections, extensive re-shoots, and removal of complete episodes for better historical continuity.

=== RemovedFeature sectionfilms ===

[[Image:IndyDVD's.jpg|thumb|right|The 2003 DVD release of the feature films.]]

Chapters 23&ndash;25 of the Indiana Jones series (''Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom'', ''Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark'' and ''Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade'', respectively) were released on DVD as a boxed set of all three films (complete with a fourth disc of bonus materials) in 2003.

'''Features'''

I removed this short section from the article because it seems kind of shoddily written and has an editorial tone. I wasn't sure how to fix it at the moment, but I think it's especially important to be careful with this article right now. Somebody else might want to start over from scratch on this subject. - [[User:Nat Krause|Nat Kraus]][[User_Talk:Nat Krause|e]] 15:15, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

* Available Subtitles (US edition): English, Spanish, French

* Available Audio Tracks (US edition): English (Dolby Digital 5.1), Spanish (Dolby Digital 2.0 Surround), French (Dolby Digital 2.0 Surround)

* Contains all three films in their original format (2.35:1 anamorphic widescreen aspect ratio or in Pan and Scan format), restored and digitally remastered by [[Lowry Digital Images]]

'''Bonus disc features'''

:<nowiki>==Hero or Villain?==</nowiki>

* A new, feature-length documentary of the making of the trilogy

* From the Lucasfilm Archives:

** ''The Stunts of Indiana Jones''

** ''The Sound of Indiana Jones''

** ''The Music of Indiana Jones''

** ''The Light and Magic of Indiana Jones''

* Original trailers

* A behind-the-scenes look at Harrison Ford getting into character, both mentally and physically

* Weblink to exclusive content including dozens of behind-the-scenes photos, an animatic sequence and a PC game preview

==References==

:Some in the media are claiming that William Mark Felt is a Hero of Democracy who saved America from a President who was extremely corrupt. Others like Pat Buchanan are calling Felt a traitor to the nation and the World because it is believed that the downfall of Richard Nixon led to 53,000 US Troops dying for nothing in Vietnam and set the stage for the holocaust in Vietnam, Laos, and Cambodia, leaving millions dead.

{{reflist}}

* Fleurier, Nicolas, ''James Bond & Indiana Jones. Action figures'', Histoire & Collections, 2006.

== Cultural References ==

::I agree with this removal and combined some of the less inflammatory sentiment with the last paragraph. I suggest we send people to Wikiquote for a variety of responses. [[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 15:22, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

* Satirical piece from McSweeney's Internet Tendency: "Back From Yet Another Globetrotting Adventure, Indiana Jones Checks His Mail and Discovers That His Bid for Tenure Has Been Denied." [http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2006/10/10bryan.html]

:::This section is shoddy and inappropriate. In any case I can imagine radicals arguing that Felt was a villain for helping the FBI distract attention from its notorious and anti-democratic [[COINTELPRO]] operations by diverting the media to the relatively trivial Watergate scandal. Nixon also deliberately prolonged the war in Vietnam for party political reasons. [[User:Ian Pitchford|Ian Pitchford]] 15:27, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

==External Wikiquote links==

{{Wikiquote}}

* [http://www.indianajones.com IndianaJones.com] &mdash; the official Indiana Jones site

* [http://www.theraider.net TheRaider.net] &mdash; a major fan site of the series

* [http://indianajones.wikicities.com The Indiana Jones Wiki]

* [http://www.seedwiki.com/wiki/chronology_central/indiana_jones.cfm?wpid=183410 Chronology Central's Indiana Jones page] &mdash; site contains a chronological reading/viewing order listing for all of the Indiana Jones films, episodes, novels, comic books and video games in the Indiana Jones continuity.

{{Indiana Jones}}

Rather than cataloguing responses to the news in the article, I suggest we refer readers to Wikiquote, which already has a good range of responses. Is there a standardized way to refer this in the body of an article? Is it OK to make a direct link, or even to refer directly to Wikiquote? [[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 15:31, 1 Jun 2005 (UTC)

{{Indiana Jones games}}

{{DEFAULTSORT:Jones, Indiana}}

== Felt vs. Linda Tripp ==

[[Category:Fictional archaeologists|Jones, Indiana]]

[[Category:Fictional professors|Jones, Indiana]]

[[Category:Fictional military personnel|Jones, Indiana]]

[[Category:Indiana Jones characters]]

[[Category:Fictional Americans|Jones, Indiana]]

[[Category:Fictional Scottish-Americans|Jones, Indiana]]<!--father is Scottish-->

[[Category:Pulp heroes and villains]]

[[Category:Sequel films]]

[[ca:Indiana Jones]]

I tightened this analogy up and added it to the range of responses, though I feel the comparison is somewhat tendentious. The crimes committed by Nixon operatives were part of a conspiracy several orders of magnitude greater than Clinton's trysts and denials. I also don't feel it should be the final paragraph of the article, preferring to end with a summary about why he went to the press. Other thoughts? [[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 15:37, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[[cs:Indiana Jones]]

: Deleted the mention of Tripp and the link relating to her in the references section. She's not a whistleblower in any serious sense of the word: she reported an affair, which she had no reason to believe was a law violation. [[User:SS451|SS451]] 00:40, 8 January 2006 (UTC)

[[de:Indiana Jones]]

[[et:Indiana Jones]]

== Washingtonpost.com on this article ==

[[es:Indiana Jones]]

[[fr:Indiana Jones]]

"Wikipedia's many volunteer editors weren't napping on the job as the W. Mark Felt story broke on Tuesday. A new entry (created yesterday, in fact) on the former associate FBI director and bona fide Deep Throat went up with great dispatch. A glance at the entry shows a clean, dry biography on Felt along with the circumstances of his involvement with Bob Woodward and Carl Bernstein on the Watergate series. It is not the first time that Wikipedia has tried to function as a sage tome of encyclopedic knowledge on breaking events, but it almost certainly is one of the most prominent, at least on its English-language site." (June 1st)

[[ko:인디애나 존스]]

[[it:Indiana Jones]]

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lotsofissues lots of issues] | [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lotsofissues&action=edit&section=new leave me a message] 15:54, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[[he:אינדיאנה ג'ונס]]

[[nl:Indiana Jones]]

:Thanks for finding that! Source is titled:

[[ja:インディ・ジョーンズ]]

[[no:Indiana Jones]]

::[http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/06/01/AR2005060100491_2.html Encyclopedia Immediata], in the "Random Access" column by Robert MacMillan, 1 June 2005. [[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 16:19, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[[oc:Indiana Jones]]

==Too late!==

[[pl:Indiana Jones]]

Not two weeks ago I read Felt's biography as part of my research on [[Helen Gandy]] and thought about writing a short entry here. And look what happens when one tarries. [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 18:29, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

[[pt:Indiana Jones]]

[[ru:Индиана Джонс]]

:You added some great stuff! Better now than never! [[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 19:05, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[[sq:Indiana Jones]]

[[simple:Indiana Jones]]

== date discrepancy ==

[[sk:Indiana Jones]]

[[fi:Indiana Jones]]

As mentioned above under "error?" There's a question about the date 1 July 1972 in the edit made on 16:54, 2 Jun 2005. Please check and confirm. [[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 20:21, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

[[sv:Indiana Jones]]

[[tr:Indiana Jones]]

== False equivalence? ==

[[zh:印第安那·琼斯]]

"It is noteworthy that many commentators who decry the alleged government "leaking" of CIA employee Valerie Plame's identity to columnist Robert Novak have long considered "Deep Throat" to be a hero, yet Mr. Felt's action in leaking this information to reporters Woodward and Bernstein can be considered a similar mis-deed of leaking by a government employee."

This line doesn't serve any real purpose, and is not neutral. You could just as easily write that there are "commentators" who think Felt is a traitor but also think Novak is a hero for exposing the alleged nepotism in Joseph Wilson's appointment.

Plus, Novak != Felt. Novak is a journalist. If the analogy above is to be supported at all, Novak = Woodward. Felt = still-unknown Valerie Plame leaker.

--[[User:Pobbard|Pobbard]] 20:35, 2 Jun 2005 (UTC)

==Oval Office==

I deleted a phrase about Haldeman and Nixon talking in the Oval Office because Nixon usually did his work in his hideaway office in the OEOB and did ceremonial things in the Oval Office. Which is correct really isn't important, but I removed it until someone can confirm it. (Say, in Kutler's book.) [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 21:08, Jun 2, 2005 (UTC)

==traitor==

I deleted this sentence:

''Felt is now considered by most Americans to be a traitor. ''

as it is inflammatory and unsubstantiated. If you want this in the article you need to back it up and rephrase it, e.g.:

''According to the Blandy and Jones survey 72% of U.S. citizens consider Felt a traitor'' (external link to survey information)

Cheers, [[User:Funkyj|Funkyj]]

==Tell us something we don't already know==

Listen to the radio: Democracy Now, 6-2-05 rean a segment introduced as follows:

Mark Felt -- who was exposed this week as Deep Throat -- was one of only two FBI officials ever to be convicted for ordering COINTELPRO operations. In 1980 he was convicted for ordering FBI agents to break into the home of Jennifer Dohrn and other associates of the Weather Underground. He was later pardoned by President Reagan. Jennifer Dohrn discusses the FBI surveillance, break-ins and a secret FBI proposal to kidnap her infant. Democracy Now! co-host Juan Gonzalez also reveals that as a leader of the Young Lords that he, too, was also a target of a similar FBI campaign. [includes rush transcript]

== Supreme Court citation ==

Article has: ''The use of "black bag jobs" by the FBI had been declared unconstitutional by the [[United States Supreme Court]] on [[June 19]], [[1972]].'' I believe this is a reference to UNITED STATES v. UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT, 407 U.S. 297 (1972) Argued February 24, 1972, Decided June 19, 1972. [[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 06:53, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:[http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=407&invol=297 Findlaw cite] [[User:Raul654|&rarr;Raul654]] 06:55, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

== External link order ==

The links listed are both chronological and by order of relevance. The first is the ''Vanity Fair'' revelation, followed by the ''Washington Post'' and ''New York Times'' coverage that day. The later analyses by less mainstream and more partisan outlets like [[Washington Times]] and [[Democracy Now!]] are currently listed further down. Over the past few days, [[User:214.13.4.151|214.13.4.151]] has moved the ''Washington Times'' link to the top of the list every day this week, and I believe it should stay where it is. The article at best is a side note and meta-analysis of the media coverage itself. I have started this subhead for those who wish to discuss this, rather than having this turn into an edit war without any discussion. [[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 15:21, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:What about removing redundant May 31st links?

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lotsofissues lots of issues] | [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lotsofissues&action=edit&section=new leave me a message] 16:42, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::Yeah, I am thinking of keeping only the five or so with significant original content: Vanity Fair, both Post pieces, the NYT piece, the Slate pieces by Noah, and the Washingtonian piece. The last two are important because they named felt as Deep Throat prior to the confirmation. The rest are mainly re-reporting and analysis. Thoughts? [[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 16:56, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:::Keep the analysis. Junk most of the May 31 articles. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lotsofissues lots of issues] | [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lotsofissues&action=edit&section=new leave me a message] 18:08, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:I concur. [[User:Raul654|&rarr;Raul654]] 16:58, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

::Done and done. [[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 23:47, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

==The indictment==

In his memoir, Felt writes he was charged with violating section 241 of the Civil Rights Act of 1969. Can anyone translate that into a US Code reference for me? [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 20:17, Jun 3, 2005 (UTC)

:18 USC 241 reads:

:TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > § 241

:§ 241. Conspiracy against rights

:Release date: 2004-08-06

:If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same; or

:If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured—

:They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.

:[[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 23:17, 3 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::Thanks! [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 14:12, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

==Felt's book cover==

We've been using book covers as illustrations under the fair use doctrine. I wonder if someone could get a scan of Felt's book and add it. (The b&w photo that was here until someone removed it was the same shot that's on the cover of that book). [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 14:12, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

==Documentary with Felt's daughter==

Anyone know anything about this documentary, The Birth of Ludi, mentioned in the Vanity Fair article? It's not in IMDB and the only three Google hits are to the VF article. [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 14:28, Jun 4, 2005 (UTC)

== ''The Advertiser'' cites this article ==

Australian newspaper, ''[[The Advertiser (Australia)|The Advertiser]]'' cites article as the sole source for Felt's bio timeline.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lotsofissues lots of issues] | [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lotsofissues&action=edit&section=new leave me a message] 17:51, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:Cool! Can you cite the link or printed reference? [[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 18:34, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::Can't find link / print: "Bob Woodward reveals: Deep Throat and me", foreign section p. 76

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lotsofissues lots of issues] | [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lotsofissues&action=edit&section=new leave me a message] 18:45, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== Hey Pedantic ==

Great expansion. Would it be worthy to mention that following the LA Times (summer '76) revelation of the Justice Dept. probe, Felt voluntarily stepped forwarded and admitted approving the burglaries?

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lotsofissues lots of issues] | [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lotsofissues&action=edit&section=new leave me a message] 18:13, 4 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:Hmm. I cited an article saying that, but I guess I neglected to state that fact in the article itself. I'll do that. [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 15:44, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

== Quote marks on indented text ==

I am removing once again the quote marks on indented text. Text that is set like this does not need quote marks. The fact that it is indented tells us it is a quotation. [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 15:46, Jun 6, 2005 (UTC)

:I would disagree, but won't put them back again. Incidently, I missed this on the talk page. - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 23:39, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I cite below some authorities on not using quote marks on block quotes. [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 14:40, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)

*Chicago Manual of Style, 13th edition, section 10.29: "Material set off from the text as a block quotations is not enclosed in quotation marks."

*Publication Manual of the APA, 3rd edition, section 3.34: "Do not use any quotation marks to enclose block quotations.

*MLA Handbook, 5th edition, section 2.7.7: "Do not use opening and closing quotation marks to enclose quotations set off from the text."

==FAC?==

Anyone think this is perhaps suitable for nomination at [[WP:FAC]]? [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 15:38, Jun 8, 2005 (UTC)

Yes, I think we can also remove the current event tag.

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lotsofissues lots of issues] | [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lotsofissues&action=edit&section=new leave me a message] 06:58, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:Can we start footnoting? - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 03:13, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== rateitall link removed ==

I removed this but if others want to discuss this addition, it's here:

*Opinion:

** [http://www.rateitall.com/i-841240-mark-felt-aka-deep-throat.aspx Reactions and opinion about Mark Felt on RateItAll]

My reason for removing is that I don't really see anonymous opinions of random web surfers to be as relevant as the other links. [[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 03:28, 10 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== Footnoting ==

This is an awesome article, but could we start footnoting things a bit better? I have started the ball rolling - my problem is that I know that the material came from his Memoir, but can't tell you the page number it came from. - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 03:13, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:I have started adding [[Template:Fact]] to the uncited sources. Let's start sourcing while we still have our authors around! - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 03:56, 15 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I don't understand how the footnote system works, so I'll tell you the references and you can add them. [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 17:26, Jun 16, 2005 (UTC)

*<s>General biography, Theoharis 324-5, Benfall</s>

*<s>Twin Falls, Felt 11, Kessler Bureau 163</s>

*<s>Dad a contractor, Felt 11</s>

*<s>Senator Pope and Clark, Felt 18, Theoharis 324-5</s>

*<s>Wife Audrey met at U Idaho, Felt 18</s>

*<s>Red Cross toilet paper, Felt 19</s>

*<s>Hoover didn't have family, Felt 25</s>

*<s>Espionage work, Felt 29 forward</s>

*<s>To New Orleans and LA, Felt 45</s>

*<s>Mob in Nevada, Felt 45</s>

*<s>"Siberia" office, Felt 45</s>

*<s>Fought mob in Kansas City, O'Connor</s> - which page?

*<s>To DC in 1962, Felt 59</s>

*<s>To Inspection Division, Felt 67</s>

*<s>"tactful with him", Kessler Bureau 163</s>

*<s>Made Tolson's asst, Powers, 315 and 470; Gentry 624</s>

*<s>"fair hair", "inherent" Gentry, 24</s>

*<s>Tolson's resignation, Gentry 43</s>

*<s>Pallbearer for Hoover, Gentry 49</s>

*<s>Gandy and the files, Gentry 50, US Congress</s>

*<s>"control Sullivan", Powers 470<s>

*<s>"Mr. Gray, the Bureau", Felt 186</s>

*<s>3 day Gray, Felt 216</s>

*<s>Gray hospitalized, Felt 225</s>

*<s>"Pat, I haven't leaked", Felt 225</s>

*<s>Get rid of Felt, Felt 225</s>

*<s>"I was supposed to be jealous", Felt 226</s>

*<s>Learned of Watergate that A.M., Felt 245</s>

*<s>"agents amazed", Kessler The FBI, 269</s>

*<s>"source in Executive", Bernstein 71</s> (my page refs are to PB edition)

*<s>"unique position", "fight", "gossip", Bernstein 131</s>

*<s>How Woodward met him, Woodward article</s>

*<s>Signal code with Woodward, Bernstein 71</s>

*<s>Doubts about Woodward's code story, Havill 78-82</s>

*<s>Felt wants to cooperate, Kutler 67</s> - '''HadlemanOnFeltCooperation'''

*<s>"record amply demonstrates"</s>, Felt 277 - '''HaldemanOnFeltUnloading'''

*<s>Gray nom'd, Felt 278</s> - '''GrayNominated'''

*<s>Gray resigns, Felt 293, Kesller Bureau 181, Kutler 347</s> - '''GrayResigns'''

*<s>"Mr. Clean", Kutler 347</s> - '''MrClean'''

*<s>"stormy" with Ruckleshaus, Felt 300</s> - '''FeltOnRuckleshausRelStormy'''

*<s>Ruckleshaus "security guard", Felt 293</s> - '''FeltOnRuckleshausAsSecurityGuard'''

*<s>Felt "bad guy", Kutler 454</s> - '''FeltNixonsBadGuy'''

*"knows everything", Kutler 170 forward

*<s>Scapegoat, Crewdson, Ex FBI</s> - '''Scapegoat'''

*<s>"shocked I was indicted", Kessler Bureau, 194</s> - '''FeltIndictmentShock'''

*<s>text of indictment, Felt, 333</s> - '''FeltIndictmentText'''

*<s>Arraignment with hundreds present, Felt 337</s> - '''ArraignmentFBIAgentApplause'''

*<s>eight delays, Pear "Conspiracy", Pear "Long Delayed"</s> - '''EightPostponements'''

*Indictment, Horrock, Powers 487

*<s>Obeying orders, crewdson Ex aide</s>

*<s>Nixon testifies, Anson 233, Pear "Testimony"</s>

*<s>convicted, Kesller Bureau 194</s>

*Plea bargins, Pear "Prosecutors"

*<s>Cohn's quote, Cohn</s>

*<s>NYT applauds conviction, "Right Punishment"</s>

;Next section

*<s>Nixon's congratulations, Gentry 595, Anson 233</s>

*<s>Pardon by Reagan, Public papers</s>

*<s>Pardon reaction, Cannon, Lardner, Pear "President"</s>

*<s>NYT disapproves, "Pardoning" </s>

*<s>Appeal, Picchirallo</s>

*<s>Denounces Privacy and FOIA acts, Felt 349</s>

;Next section

*<s>Library Journal, Steck - '''LibraryJournalReview'''</s>

*<s>Suicide Pact quote: Felt, 11 - '''NotASuicidePact'''</s>

*<s>NYTBR review, Wise - '''NYTBR'''</s>

*<s>Hoover flame, Gentry 728 - '''KeeperHooverFlame'''</s>

*<s>Woodward visits in 99, O'Connor, Kessler Bureau 179</s> - '''KesslerEvidenceOfDeepThroat'''

*<s>Info on children O'Connor, Benfell - '''FeltsChildren'''</s>

;Next section

*<s>Limpert in 1974, Limpert - '''Limpert'''</s>

*<s>Atlantic article, Mann - '''MannAtlanticMonthly'''</s>

*<s>Butterfield's ID, Rizzo - '''Butterfield'''</s>

*<s>Jacob Bernstein's campmate ID, Daley - '''Campmate'''</s>

*<s>Garment: "Felt theory was a strong one, Garment 146-7 - '''GarmentFeltTheoryStrong'''</s>

*<s>Rules Felt out, Garment 170-171 - '''GarmentNotFelt'''</s>

;Needs some help finding these in the article...

*<s>Son Mark's quote, Haddock</s>

*<s>Testifies to Congress, UPI</s>

*Identified as DT, O'Connor passim

*How he met O'Connor, O'Connor

*Why reveal now, Benfell

---

OK, I've run through this article with a fine tooth comb and footnoted most of it. Hope this is good! - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 08:21, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:Quotes in end graphs are someone else's doing. I don't have information on their sourcing. [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 15:26, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)

==Picture pruning==

After seeing this article come up on the FAC, I came back here to take a second look. The article had lots of pictures, but most were only peripherally related to Felt. I've gone ahead and removed most of the unrelated ones. [[User:Raul654|&rarr;Raul654]] 20:10, Jun 17, 2005 (UTC)

:I don't understand this. It helped break up the text. All these pictures were related to the article. Sen. Pope brought him to D.C. He worked directly under Gray and Tolson. His actions helped cause Nixon's resignation. Reagan pardoned him, which goes with the text of the pardon message. All were related to the article. [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 15:22, Jun 18, 2005 (UTC)

::It's a case of too-much-of-a-good thing. There were well over a dozen pictures, but only two actually of him(!), and as I said before, many of those pictures (for example, the FBI logo) seemed thrown in for no editorial purpose. Yes, having a picture of J Edgar Hoover, under whom he served for 20 years, is a good thing; having a picture of the guy who got him into the FBI (Pope), his boss at the FBI (Hooever), the guy for whom he was passed over, the president who pardoned him (Reagan), the FBI logo, 'etc -- this doesn't strike you as, um, overkill? In the end, (a) they end up being mostly distracting to the reader without making this article much more informative, and (b) they tend to stick out like a sore thumb. [[User:Raul654|&rarr;Raul654]] 03:04, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

:'''oppose''' the removal - this is an extended article, so it can neatly fit peripherally related images. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lotsofissues lots of issues] | [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lotsofissues&action=edit&section=new leave me a message] 05:16, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

There were twelve images: Two of Felt plus the FBI seal, the Watergate building, Woodward, Bernstein, Nixon, Reagan, Pope, Tolson, Gray, and Reagan. All were related to the article. I always was cautioned in designing pages for print about breaking up slabs of text. That's what I was trying to do here. Again, I believe all the pictures were relevant. Do we have a policy about "pruning" pictures? [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 15:35, Jun 20, 2005 (UTC)

:I think this is a case of being sensible. Too many images crowds the article and distracts from it's content. Too few makes the article duller. Adding the FBI logo, for instance, isn't really necessary. Other images, like the Watergate building, might be more appropriate. - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 03:15, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

I looked around on the pages related to images and don't see anything about a policy for photos. So I've added all of them back except for the FBI seal. I'd be really grateful if someone could add a picture of Felt's memoir. [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 16:29, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

== [[User:Bobblewik]] reverted ==

I have reverted the following - [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=W._Mark_Felt&diff=15475743&oldid=15457702]. This is nothing personal, I just don't see what is meant by that, and besides that date wikilinks can be very useful for putting things into context. - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 02:55, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== Ways to trim article ==

The FAC was shot down partially because the footnoting hasn't been completed but also because of length. Should there be a separate US. v. Felt article then?

[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lotsofissues lots of issues] | [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lotsofissues&action=edit&section=new leave me a message] 05:18, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

:The quick answer here is: we shouldn't. When you remove the footnotes and references section and just leave the main body of the article, the size goes from 54KB to ''40KB''. Compare [[W. Mark Felt]] with [[W. Mark Felt/Temp]] - click on Edit this page to see for yourself! The question I think we need to ask ourselves is: do we want a well sourced article, or do we want a "short" article? - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 06:35, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)

::Hmmm... might have misread this. On second thoughts, it might be a good idea to split it off, if there is enough material. - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 03:16, 21 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== Buchanan "traitor" quote incorrect ==

Pat Buchanan was quoted as saying that Felt was a "traitor" in a Washington Post story dated June 1, 2005 titled [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/05/31/AR2005053101420.html "Contemporaries Have Mixed Views"]. However, this subsequent correction to the story (now included at the top of the page) reveals that Buchanan said exactly the opposite:

''A June 1 article on reaction to the confirmation that former FBI official W. Mark Felt was the Watergate source known as "Deep Throat" incorrectly said that Patrick J. Buchanan called Felt a "traitor" in an interview on MSNBC's "Hardball." Buchanan said that Felt had no personal loyalty to President Richard M. Nixon, "so I don't consider him a traitor in that sense."'' (The [http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8060320/ MSNBC transcript of the show segment] is only an excerpt and does not include this statement by Buchanan.)

I have corrected the article.

[[User:Breakall|Breakall]] 12:41, 2005 Jun 21 (UTC)

:Good work :-) [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 02:27, 22 Jun 2005 (UTC)

==Cites, please==

I have gone through and found citations for the LA Times editorial, Colson's "oath" quote, and the article on Felt's daughter. If anyone else adds material, please tell us where it came from. And be specific! It's much easier for you to add it than for others to try to figure it out later. [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 15:48, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

:Speaking of the stuff about Felt's daughter: what is the point of having information about the religious group that she belongs to? Is that supposed to be a counterpoint to the "family pressuring Felt to come out so they could cash in" theory? [[User:Breakall|Breakall]] 00:54, 2005 Jun 23 (UTC)

==Felt's book==

Again, I'd really appreciate it if someone could scan the cover of Felt's 1979 book The FBI Pyramid and add it here. [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 16:25, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

==On CNN==

This article was displayed on CNN's "Inside Politics" on June 20. [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 16:39, Jun 22, 2005 (UTC)

:Anybody have a screenshot? [[User:Breakall|Breakall]] 19:27, 2005 Jun 22 (UTC)

== Unsourced material ==

:''"Speculation about Felt's motives at the time of the scandal has varied widely as well. Because Nixon passed over Felt as FBI director following Hoover's death, some media commentators have suggested that Felt possibly sought to sabotage Nixon's presidency. Others have suggested that Felt acted out of institutional loyalty to the FBI. Many FBI senior officials and agents believed that the Nixon White House was seeking to politicize the bureau, and use it to cover up its own lawbreaking."''

Can we get specific sources for this please? - [[User:Ta bu shi da yu|Ta bu shi da yu]] 01:43, 23 Jun 2005 (UTC)

== L. Patrick Gray's thoughts on Felt's motivation ==

I think we need to include the thoughts of Felt's boss, L. Patrick Gray, in this article: [http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050626/D8AVAPHG0.html] [[User:Badammcqueen|Badammcqueen]] 20:47, Jun 26, 2005 (UTC)

== Rove / Novak ==

''"Some have contrasted Felt's media treatment with that of other whistleblowers, like Clinton scandal whistleblower Linda Tripp [79], or Karl Rove, the informant who leaked the identity of CIA employee Valerie Plame to columnist Robert Novak (a Felt critic)."''

I removed the last part of this sentence from the ''Deep Throat Revealed'' section due to the fact that Rove has not been shown to have disclosed Plame's identity to Novak (especially since Novak won't give up his source). Rove also talked via email (communiques since released) to Matt Cooper from Time, but a [http://msnbc.msn.com/id/8525978/site/newsweek/ story] in the 2005 July 18 Newsweek says, "Nothing in the Cooper e-mail suggests that Rove used Plame's name or knew she was a covert operative."

A passing reference to Rove (of questionable factuality) is not necessary in this article, not to mention the fact that no source is cited comparing Felt and Rove, which is supposedly the point of this remark.

[[User:Breakall|Breakall]] 20:11, 2005 July 11 (UTC)

:Why not just remove the specific reference to Karl Rove (which was added in the last couple of days) and leave the sentence as it was:

::''"Some have contrasted Felt's media treatment with that of other whistleblowers, like Clinton scandal whistleblower Linda Tripp [79], or the informant who leaked the identity of CIA employee Valerie Plame to columnist Robert Novak (a Felt critic)."''

:I argued earlier that the comparison was tendentious, but I didn't want to be accused of NPOV by removing the comment altogether. Many have made this comparison, even though I think it's inaccurate. [[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 20:32, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

:::"''Why not just remove the specific reference to Karl Rove (which was added in the last couple of days) and leave the sentence as it was...''"

::That's exactly what I did.

::Can you please link here to a source comparing Felt to Rove? [[User:Breakall|Breakall]] 21:56, 2005 July 11 (UTC)

:::I haven't seen anything like that. I'm sure someone (like the editor who added it) has made the analogy, but I haven't seen it in the mainstream press. However, there has been plenty of comparison or Felt and the Miller informant who outed Plame. There was a good ''Post'' article comparing Felt to Miller's informant: "Miller, who is married to retired Random House editor Jason Epstein, 76, calls the case against her "positively Orwellian." She recently told CNN the case was not about her but "whether or not there could be a Deep Throat today.""

:::Howard Kurtz. A Case Most Clearly Defined By Its Shadows. ''Washington Post,'' July 7, 2005; Page A12. [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/06/AR2005070602063.html] [[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]]

::::You have given me what I asked for, but I still don't think it it appropriate for this article. Kurtz's piece is not "public response" to Felt coming out, as the current revision says. He is responding to the Plame case by comparing it to the media's treatment of Deep Throat. This belongs in the ''Reaction/response to Plame "leak"'' section of the [[Valerie Plame]] article. [[User:Breakall|Breakall]] 22:47, 2005 July 11 (UTC)

I concur with jokestress -- '''''Some have contrasted''' Felt's media treatment'' - those first three are [[wikipedia:avoid weasel words|weasel words]] [[User:Raul654|&rarr;Raul654]] 23:23, July 11, 2005 (UTC)

:Yeah, I don't know how I have ended up in a position of defending comparisons I have said since June 2 (see above) are irrelevant, but if the criterion for citation is a source, it's not too hard to find all sorts of comparisons to Tripp and the Plame informant. That's why I put it back in-- because there is a source. If you want to lose the weasel words, you can say "Clinton whistleblower Linda Tripp's lawyer compared media treatment of Felt and his client, and several articles has compared the Valerie Plame leak to the Felt leak." Then cite the articles. [[User:Jokestress|Jokestress]] 23:58, 11 July 2005 (UTC)

== Woodward: Random dude knew his identity ==

Stanley Pottinger, an assistant AG, observed stumble when a jurror asked him if he was Deep Throat during the '76 grand jury proceedding. He asked Felt if he would like the question stricken, which Felt thankfully agreed. In Woodward's new book. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:Lotsofissues lots of issues] | [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=User_talk:Lotsofissues&action=edit&section=new leave me a message] 13:39, 25 July 2005 (UTC)

== Great work ==

I must say that this article looks amazing. Nice job, everybody who worked on it. --[[User:Michiel Sikma|omeg]] 15:36, 26 September 2005 (UTC)

==Woodward's Book and Felt's==

I've started adding information from Bob Woodward's book, ''The Secret Man''. Don't have my notes today, but I'll try to put it in over the next few days.

Again, I repeat my request for a scan of the cover of his 1979 memoir. We did have the photo from the cover of that book on one of the foreign versions of this article. Don't know how to import it here, however. [[User:PedanticallySpeaking|PedanticallySpeaking]] 19:29, 7 October 2005 (UTC)