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Talk:George W. Bush/Archive 37 and Indiana Jones (character): Difference between pages

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{{Indiana Jones character|
==A Note on NPOV==
image= [[Image:IndianaTempleDoom.jpg|Indiana Jones as portrayed by Harrison Ford|250px]]|
caption = [[Harrison Ford]] as Indiana Jones|
name=Henry "Indiana" Jones Jr.|
gender=[[Male]]|
birth= [[July 1]], [[1899]]|
birthplace= [[Princeton, New Jersey|Princeton]], [[New Jersey]]|
occupation= [[Professor]] of [[Archaeology]]|
family = [[Henry Jones Sr.]] (Father)<br /> [[Anna Jones (Indiana Jones Character)|Anna Jones]] (Mother, deceased)|
actor=[[Harrison Ford]]<br/>[[River Phoenix]]<br/>[[Sean Patrick Flanery]]<br/>[[Corey Carrier]]<br/>[[George Hall (actor)|George Hall]]<br/>[[Doug Lee (voice actor)|Doug Lee]]|
first=''[[Raiders of the Lost Ark]]''|
}}
'''Dr. Henry "Indiana" Jones, Jr.''' (also known as '''Indy'''), is a [[fictional]] [[professor]], [[archaeologist]], and [[adventurer]] - the main protagonist of the [[1981 in film|1981]] [[adventure film]] ''[[Raiders of the Lost Ark]]'' (later retitled ''Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark''), its prequel ''[[Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom]]'', and sequel, ''[[Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade]]''. Jones is notable for his trademark [[bullwhip]], [[fedora (hat)|fedora]], [[leather jacket]], and [[ophidiophobia|fear of snakes]].
 
The character is most famously played by [[Harrison Ford]]; however, he has also been portrayed by [[River Phoenix]] (as the young Indiana in ''[[Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade]]''), [[Corey Carrier]], [[Sean Patrick Flanery]], and [[George Hall (actor)|George Hall]] (''[[The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles]]'').
It should be borne in mind that NPOV doesn't necessarily mean 'a position between the two major American parties.' We're talking NPOV in a factual sense, considering this is an international encyclopaedia.
 
In addition to his film and television appearances, the character has been featured in novels, comics, video games, and other media. A [[Indiana Jones 4|fourth film]] (once again starring Ford) is currently in production; filming is scheduled to take place throughout 2007, with the film planned to be released worldwide on Thursday, May 22nd, 2008.
If simply listing the facts of Bush's administration comes across as negative, there should be no attempt to unfairly outweigh them with 'good points' in order to strike a balance between Republican and Democratic views.
 
==Production==
Consider the Wikipedia entries on people like Yasser Arafat, who, very much loved by his people, is nonetheless widely criticised and the article reflects this. George W. Bush has very, very little support outside of the United States, and the global intellectual climate is remarkably negative. The article should reflect this, instead of simply pandering to a centrist American audience.
Indiana Jones is modeled after the strong-jawed heroes of the matinée [[serial]]s and [[pulp magazine]]s that [[George Lucas]] and [[Steven Spielberg]] enjoyed in their childhoods (such as the [[Republic Pictures]] [[serial]]s, and the [[Doc Savage]] series). The two friends first discussed the project in [[Hawaii]] during the time of release of the first ''[[Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope|Star Wars]]'' film.<ref name="makingraiders">"[http://www.indianajones.com/raiders/bts/news/news20030923.html Making ''Raiders of the Lost Ark'']." September 23, 2003. [http://www.indianajones.com/ IndianaJones.com]</ref> Spielberg told Lucas how he wanted to direct a [[James Bond]] film - Lucas responded that he "had something better than that".<ref name="makingraiders" />
 
The character was originally named Indiana Smith, after an [[Alaskan malamute]] Lucas owned in the 1970s; however Spielberg disliked the name "Smith", and Lucas casually suggested "Jones" as an alternative.<ref name="makingraiders" />
{{unsigned|146.87.193.90}}
 
===Costume and equipment===
:Absolutely not. Wikipedia is NPOV, period. Not a position between the U.S. parites, not a median international position. Any "middle ground" view is itself a position, a biased point of view. The ONLY way we can have an acceptable article it to neutrally present the facts. A "list of facts" can be biased to the positive or negative. The solution is not to be even with numbers, but rather to speak in a tone of total disinterest in the good or bad moral implications of those facts. To do otherwise will certainly result in use of the justification of "international POV" to slant the article to the left. In reality, any slant at all is unacceptable. Period. [[User:Vonspringer|Vonspringer]] 07:04, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
The general appearance for the character of Indiana Jones was chosen before anyone was even cast. He was envisioned as an amalgam of several characters - most notably treasure hunter Fred C. Dobbs (as played by [[Humphrey Bogart]] in ''[[The Treasure of the Sierra Madre (film)|The Treasure of the Sierra Madre]]''), and adventurer Harry Steele (as played by [[Charlton Heston]] in ''[[Secret of the Incas]]''[http://www.spookybug.com/origins/general.html]).
 
Upon requests by Spielberg and Lucas, the costume designer gave the character a distinctive silhouette through the styling of the hat; after examining many hats, the designers chose a tall-crowned, wide-brimmed [[Fedora (hat)|fedora]], the [[Herbert Johnson]] Poet. Although other hats were also used throughout the movies, the general style and profile remained the same. Other elements of the outfit include:
::Without regard to what Jimbo, and others may say, NPOV is a goal we can only approach asymptotically.
 
* The leather jacket - a hybrid of the "Type 440" and the [[A-2 jacket]], made by Wested Leather Co.
::There is no such thing as a '''"fact"'''. There is a slim play by Jacob Bronkowski, entitled the "Abacus and the Rose". Bronowski tried to emulate Galileo's famous "dialogue on two world systems" -- the book that got him sent to the inquisition's torture chamber. His play also subtitled "a dialogue on two world views". However his two world views are those of the scientist, and of an artist, or, more particularly, a pompous, pretentious, obnoxious literary critic.
* The bag - a modified Mark VII British gas mask bag.
* The whip - a 10ft Bullwhip crafted by David Morgan (although different lengths were used in specific stunts)
* The revolver - usually a [[World War I]] era revolver. Examples include the [[Webley Revolver|Webley Mk VI]] (''Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade''), or a .45 ACP [[Smith & Wesson]] Hand Ejector 2nd model revolver (''Raiders of the Lost Ark''). He has also been seen using a [[M1917 revolver]], and a 9mm [[Browning Hi-Power]].<ref>http://www.indygear.com/gear/guns.shtml</ref>
 
Jones's Fedora and Leather Jacket (as used in ''[[Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade]]'') are on display at the [[Smithsonian]]'s American History Museum in [[Washington DC]][http://smithsonianlegacies.si.edu/objectdescription.cfm?ID=125]. The collection of props and clothing from the films has become a thriving hobby for aficionados of the franchise.<ref>http://www.indygear.com/</ref>
::They go at it, hammer and tongs. The literary critic wins a couple of the first rounds. But the scientist makes a big comeback. Typically, the pompous literary guy knows nothing about science, or epistomology. And he betrays himself by saying that the scientist has no judgement, and only knows '''''"facts"'''''.
 
===Casting===
::Bronowski's scientist gives a very spirited defense of the scientist's requirement of its practioners constant use of judgement. And he gives a very spirited attack on the naive notion that there is such a thing as a '''''"fact"'''''.
Originally, Spielberg suggested [[Harrison Ford]]; Lucas resisted the idea, since he had already cast the actor in three of his movies ([[American Graffiti]] and the first two installments of the ''[[Star Wars]]'' series), and did not want Ford to become known as his "Bobby DeNiro" (in reference to the fact that fellow director [[Martin Scorsese]] regularly cast [[Robert DeNiro]] in his films).<ref name="makingraiders" /> During an intensive casting process, Lucas and Spielberg auditioned many actors, and finally cast then little-known actor [[Tom Selleck]] as Indiana Jones, and [[pre-production]] began in earnest on ''[[Raiders of the Lost Ark]]''.<ref name="makingraiders" />
 
However, [[CBS]] refused to release Selleck from his contractual commitment to [[Magnum, P.I.]] (which was gradually gaining momentum in the ratings), forcing him to turn down the role.<ref name="makingraiders" /> After Spielberg suggested Ford again, Lucas finally capitulated, and he was cast in the role - less than 3 weeks before [[principal photography]] began.<ref name="makingraiders" /> If for whatever reason Ford had not landed the role, a possible third choice for the movie was thought to have been [[Dirk Benedict]], star of the [[Battlestar Galactica]] sc-fi TV series, though this was never offcially confirmed.
::Bronowski is very convincing.
 
===Models===
::Every thing that, on the surface, is presented as a fact, is when you examine it deeply enough, really a judgement. Did Saddma possess a vast arsenal of ready-use WMD? Two years ago many angry partisans would have mockingly denounced you for doubtng this "fact".
Many people are said to be the real-life inspiration of the Indiana Jones character - although it should be noted that none of the following have been confirmed as inspirations by Lucas or Spielberg. In alphabetical order by last name:
 
*[[Paleontologist]] [[Roy Chapman Andrews]].<ref>{{cite book|title=Dinosaurs in the Attic: An Excursion Into the American Museum of Natural History|first=Douglas J.|last=Preston|publisher=St. Martin's Press|year=1993|id=ISBN 0-312-10456-1}}, [http://books.google.com/books?vid=ISBN0312104561&id=CaBxisxbAfwC&pg=PA98&lpg=PA98&sig=v0aO-D_rCrUl-IRZHI0RoexkydQ pp. 97&ndash;98], "Andrews is allegedly the real person that the movie character of Indiana Jones was patterned after... crack shot, fighter of Mongolian brigands, the man who created the metaphor of 'Outer Mongolia' as denoting any exceedingly remote place."</ref>
::Of course this was not a '''"fact"'''. Those who propounded this view, were making a judgement. Those who doubted it were making a judgement. This is true of every single "fact" in the wikipedia.
*Italian [[archaeologist]] and circus [[strongperson (strength athlete)|strongman]] [[Giovanni Battista Belzoni]] (1778&ndash;1823).<ref>http://www.filmsite.org/raid.html Raiders of the Lost Ark (1981)</ref>
* [[Yale University]] professor, historian, and explorer [[Hiram Bingham III]], who rediscovered and excavated the [[lost city]] of [[Machu Picchu]],<ref>[http://www.usatoday.com/travel/destinations/2005-09-22-peru_x.htm The trail less trampled on] in [[USA Today]] by Gene Sloan, September 23, 2005: "The iconic mountaintop citadel, discovered less than a century ago by American explorer Hiram Bingham, the inspiration for Indiana Jones, is a thrilling reward after days of exertion."</ref> and chronicled his find in the bestselling book ''The Lost City of the Incas'' in 1948.<ref>''[http://www.senate.gov/reference/reference_item/LostCity.htm Lost City of the Incas]'' biographical profile from the United States Senate website</ref>
*The [[University of Chicago]] archaeologist [[Robert Braidwood]].<ref>{{cite web|url=http://maroon.uchicago.edu/news/articles/2003/01/21/obituary_robert_and_.php|title=Obituary: Robert and Linda Braidwood|author=Molly Schranz|publisher=[[Chicago Maroon]]|date=January 21, 2003|accessdate=2006-09-21}}: "Some say he was the real life inspiration for Indiana Jones."</ref> <!-- This is questionable; if anything, "Professor BraidWOOD" sounds more like "Professor RavenWOOD". Also unable to find other sources saying he served "as inspiration for". -->
<!--Removed, as not cited as inspiration for. *Adventurer and [[King Kong]] creator [[Merian C. Cooper]] has been called a real-life Indiana Jones.{{fact}}-->
<!-- Temporarily removed; seems to be promotional fluff*Adventurer and anthropologist [[Schuyler Jones]]. "Dr. [Schuyler] Jones refers to the international belief that he is the 'original' upon whom the 'Indiana Jones' films are based 'as just a rumor'. [http://www.harrisliterary.com/jones.html] -->
*Colonel [[Percy Harrison Fawcett]] (1867 – 1925?), perhaps the most quoted source of inspiration to the character of Indiana Jones, was a British archaeologist who disappeared in the Amazon jungle in [[1925]] while searching for a lost city.<ref>[http://home.earthlink.net/~larryorcutt/fawcett.html "Colonel Percy Harrison Fawcett" by Larry Orcutt]</ref>
*Religious archaeologist [[Vendyl Jones|Vendyl "Texas" Jones]] once claimed that he was the inspiration, citing his names (he notes that his first name trimmed becomes Endy &mdash; very similar to Indy), but this claim has reportedly been denied by Spielberg.<ref>{{cite web|url=http://www.watchman.org/reltop/filmdig.htm|title=Film Claims Disputed; Dig Shut Down: Vendyl Jones' Claims Challenged|author=James Walker|publisher=The Watchman Expositor|date=2005|accessdate=2006-09-21}}: citing [[Texas Monthly]], "Lucas and Spielberg say they've never heard of Vendyl Jones" and the original 1973 script by Lucas predates Vendyl Jones archaeological claims that are the supposed inspiration.</ref>
* [[William Jones (philologist)|Sir William Jones]] (nicknamed "India") (1746 – 1794), who was an English philologist, judge, and founder of the Royal Asiatic Society.
*Mayan archaeologist and U.S. spy [[Sylvanus Morley]].
<!-- Temporarily removed;*The fictional character [[Allan Quatermain]].{{fact}} -->
<!-- Removed. According to the reference, he's been "compared to Indiana Jones", but the reference doesn't say he "served as the inspiration for Jones." *Explorer [[Gene Savoy]] [http://umanitoba.fitdv.com/new/articles/article.html?artid=383]-->
* [[Germany|German]] [[philologist]] and archaeologist [[Otto Rahn]] (1904-1939) [http://books.google.com/books?id=oB7pBZ3s6dIC&pg=PA159&lpg=PA159&dq=rahn+indiana&source=web&ots=XTezsjEyZ1&sig=qfT4iK63XCML1hYvVoaRiG4qeEw#PPA159,M1], whose (reluctant) membership in the [[SS]] stands in somewhat [[ironic]] contrast to the [[Americanization]] of the Indiana Jones character.
* [[Harvard]] professor [[Langdon Warner]] (1881-1955).
 
==Appearances==
::So, what does this mean for attempts to write from a neutral point of view? I think it means showing humility, and attempting to avoid rhetorical tricks. Honest writers have to avoid putting forward as accepted ideas that remain open to question. I'm sorry, if you really believe there are objective "facts", that articles should contain, and that you know what those facts are, you may be part of the problem, not the solution. -- [[User:Geo Swan|Geo Swan]] 07:53, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
{{Main|List of Indiana Jones appearances}}
Since his introduction in [[1981]]'s ''Raiders of the Lost Ark'' (later retitled on VHS and DVD box covers as ''Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark''), he has made appearances in two more feature films, a three-season TV series, dozens of novels, [[Indiana jones comics|comic books]], video games, [[Indiana Jones (role-playing game)|role-playing games]], and even his own [[Indiana Jones Adventure|amusement park rides]].
[[Image:IndianaJ.jpg|right|thumb|220px|Harrison Ford and Sean Connery on the set of [[Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade]].]]
 
==Faith=On Based ErrorFilm===
The initial trilogy of theatrical films (starring Harrison Ford) comprised of:
The Wikipedia article says that early in 2001 Bush obtained legislation to change the funding etc. of faith based charities. This is not the case. The following is a quote from the New York Times, Dec 13, 2002: "President Bush acted today to make it easier for religious organizations to receive federal money for social welfare programs, invoking both executive powers and his belief in the power of faith to help society's neediest people." Legislation was held up in the Senate, so he evoked executive powers. This seems like a clear mistake that should be corrected. If such legislation exists, it should be referenced.
*''[[Raiders of the Lost Ark]]'' (1981) - set in [[1936]]
03:49, 26 December 2005 (UTC)Al Rodbell blog alrodbell.blogspot.com NYtimes article available at:
*''[[Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom]]'' (1984) - set in [[1935]]
http://alrodbell.blogspot.com/1994_12_01_alrodbell_archive.html
*''[[Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade]]'' (1989) - set in [[1938]]
 
In 1992, a [[television]] series named ''[[The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles]]'' was first produced; the series aired from 1992 to 1996, and featured a 17-year-old Jones ([[Sean Patrick Flanery]]), a 93-year-old Jones ([[George Hall (actor)|George Hall]]), and a 10-year-old Jones ([[Corey Carrier]]). The show chronicled Jones's early life, beginning with his childhood travels with his father and carrying through to the solo journeys of his youth, his activities during World War I, and beyond. ''The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles'' was originally conceived by Lucas as [[edutainment]], a vehicle to educate children about key historical events and important individuals. To this end each episode features an appearance by an important historical figure of the time integrated into the story. In one of the later shows, Harrison Ford (while filming ''[[The Fugitive (1993 film)|The Fugitive]]'') briefly reprized the role of Jones in a [[cameo]] appearance.
==Graph==
 
The upcoming [[Indiana Jones 4|fourth Indiana Jones movie]] is in an advanced stage of pre-production, and is scheduled to be filmed in [[June 2007]] for a [[May 22]], [[2008]] release.<ref>[http://www.cinemafusion.com/index.php?/weblog/comments/official_indy_4_release_date_may_22_2008/ Cinema Fusion]</ref>
Is it possible to get an updated graph for the approval ratings section. The one shown seems to go only through Oct '05. Thanks. [[User:Arkon|Arkon]] 06:46, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 
===Video Games===
The character has appeared in several officially licensed video games, beginning with adaptations of [[Raiders of the Lost Ark (Atari 2600)|''Raiders of the lost Ark'' for the Atari 2600]], ''Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom'', and two adaptations of ''[[Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade: The Graphic Adventure|Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade]]'' - one action oriented, one with a more overt adventure bias.
 
Following this, the games branched off into original storylines with ''[[Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis]]'', ''[[Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine]]'', and ''[[Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb]]''. Development was headed up by [[Hal Barwood]], and each game starred [[Doug Lee (voice actor)|Doug Lee]] as the voice of Indiana Jones.
==Outside perspectives on semi-protection==
For those who are concerned (or not) about this or any other article becoming permanently semi-protected, please peruse the insightful comments on Slashdot [http://slashdot.org/articles/05/12/24/0843220.shtml] and Digg some time. [http://digg.com/technology/Wikipedia:_The_free_encyclopedia_that_almost_anyone_can_edit_] These people are Wikipedia users (in the reading sense) and potential future editors as well. [[User:Can't sleep, clown will eat me|Can&#39;t sleep, clown will eat me]] 07:50, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 
A [[Indiana Jones 2007|new ''Indiana Jones'' video game]] is in development by [[LucasArts]], and is expected to coincide with the release of the upcoming fourth film.[http://lucasarts.com/games/indianajones/]
----
 
==Fictional character biography==
* '''THE GOD OF WAR PATIENTLY WAITS FOR THE TIME WHEN YE POOR CHOICE OF PRESIDENT SHALL CAUSE THIS NATION TO FALL UNDER THE FORCES OF ITS OWN GOVERNMENT - DARK RIDERS OF THE NIGHT - GO FORTH TO THE FOUR WINDS - THIS LAND IS RIPE FOR THE PLUNDERING'''--[[User:God_of_War|God_of]][[User Talk:God_of_War| War]] 08:20, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
Indiana Jones is an [[archaeologist]] who divides his time between teaching at prestigious [[colleges]] and [[universities]], and field work - generally involving the "obtaining of rare [[Artifact (archaeology)|antiquities]]". Jones's activities often involve some personal risk, in some cases originating from rivals attempting to secure the same item. Advocating that "X never marks the spot", Jones is a strong believer in the value of painstaking research; however, he is also well known for occasionally taking shortcuts where necessary.
===Strawman?===
Thanks for playing, but it doesn't take much brain power to see that you're a '''parody''' of a liberal, rather than the real thing--[[User:63.22.95.82|63.22.95.82]] 18:43, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
 
While his main area of expertise is archaeology, his secondary specialization is [[linguistics]]. He speaks a total of 27 languages to greater or lesser degrees, including [[Ancient Greek]], [[Latin]], [[Sanskrit]], [[Arabic language|Arabic]], [[Standard Mandarin|Mandarin]], [[French language|French]], [[Italian language|Italian]], [[German language|German]], [[Spanish language|Spanish]], [[Portuguese language|Portuguese]] and [[American Sign Language]].{{fact|date=May 2007}}
----
 
Jones believes that archaeology is the "search for fact - not truth" - as opposed to [[philosophy]].
** What is this in reference to? [[User:Can't sleep, clown will eat me|Can&#39;t sleep, clown will eat me]] 23:52, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 
''(Note : - the events in this timeline are drawn only from officially licensed media released or developed directly by [[LucasFilm]] or [[LucasArts]]. Novels, comics, and other ''[[expanded universe]]'' materials are not included, unless officially accepted as canon. Unless otherwise noted, events are sourced from The [[Young Indiana Jones Chronicles]])''<ref>{{cite news | title = Official Indiana Jones character timeline | publisher = Lucasfilm | date = 2007-01-23 | url = http://www.indianajones.com/marshall/character/indianajones/ | accessdate = 2007-01-23}}</ref><ref>{{cite news | title = Unofficial Indiana Jones character timeline, including [[Expanded Universe]] | publisher = www.theraider.net| date = 2007-01-23 | url = http://www.theraider.net/information/timeline/index.php | accessdate = 2007-01-23}}</ref>
==Ugly Warning==
I have removed the ugly vandalism warning. Thanks to sprotect this page has been realatively quiet and this warning is not needed. I can see three days worth of edit history now.--[[User:God_of_War|God_of]][[User Talk:God_of_War| War]] 19:05, 27 December 2005 (UTC)
 
===''The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles''===
==Errors in Article RE: 2004 Election==
Indiana Jones was born Henry Jones Jr. to [[Scotland|Scottish]]-born [[professor]] of [[Medieval literature]] Dr. [[Henry Jones Sr.]] and his wife Anna Lauren Jones on [[July 1]] [[1899]], in [[Princeton, New Jersey|Princeton]], [[New Jersey]]. His birth certificate shows the address of 10 Creighton Avenue, Princeton, NJ. Although his father calls him "Junior," Henry Jr. adopts the name of his beloved [[malamute]] [[dog]] "Indiana", insisting he be referred to as "''Indiana'' Jones" ("Indy" for short). It is unclear exactly when this decision is made - however, he was already being referred to as ''Indy'' by his peers at the age of 13.[http://www.theraider.net/information/timeline/childhood.php]
The article refers to a "record voter turnout" for the 2004 election. Not true: actually, it was the highest turnout since 1968. The article is also misleading---it gushes with fawning praise for Bush, saying that he got "more popular votes than any previous presidential" candidate---but it fails to mention that Bush received, in terms of absolute number of popular votes, a victory margin that was the smallest of any sitting president since Harry S. Truman in 1948. Also, Bush's win was, percentage-wise, the closest popular margin ever for a sitting president. This info ought to be included in the article for balance.
 
[[Image:Corey Carrier.jpg|left|thumb|Corey Carrier as 9 year old Indiana Jones.]]
:So include it then. [[User:CDThieme|CDThieme]] 00:31, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
In [[1908]], Henry Jones Sr. embarks on a lecture tour around the world together with his wife and then 9 year old son. Numerous adventures ensue for the young Indiana Jones, including following an underground railroad in the Carolinas, meeting [[T.E. Lawrence]] in [[Cairo]], archaeologist [[Howard Carter]] in the [[Valley of Kings]], [[Princess Sophie von Hohenberg|Princess Sophie]] (daughter of [[Archduke Franz Ferdinand]]) in [[Austria-Hungary]], [[Leo Tolstoy]] in [[Russia]], and visiting [[Nairobi]], [[India]], [[China]], [[Paris]], and [[Florence]].
 
[[Image:Indiana Jones and the Cross of Coronado.jpg|right|thumb|A 13 year old Jones played by [[River Phoenix]] holding the [[Cross of Coronado]].]] In 1912, Jones is a [[Life Scout]] with the [[Boy Scouts of America]] in [[Utah]]. In April of that year, Indiana's mother Anna Jones contracts [[Scarlet fever]] and dies. Shortly after her death, Jones (whilst on a Boy Scout trip) attempts to secure the [[Cross of Coronado]] from thieves (''Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade''). This incident forms the 'origin' of many of Jones's personal trademarks; one of the villains can clearly be seen as the inspiration for later costume choices, Indy first attempts the use of the [[bullwhip]] (receiving a small scar on the chin that would stay with him to adulthood), and he is given his first [[Fedora (hat)|fedora]]. It is also during this incident that he first develops a strong fear of snakes. Three years later, Jones (at the urging of his father) enrolls at [[Princeton University]]. During a [[spring break]] trip to [[Mexico]], he is kidnapped by Mexican revolutionaries and reluctantly plays a part in the [[Mexican Revolution]], under [[Pancho Villa]]. When he leaves Mexico, he travels to [[Ireland]], then England, and finally [[Belgium]] where he joins the [[Belgian Army]].
::There should also be a blurb about the way the [[Electoral College]] system makes discussion about popular vote margins moot. [[User:Endomion|Endomion]] 03:57, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
 
He joins the [[Western Front (WWI)|Western Front]], participating in the [[Battle of the Somme]]. During a [[Germany|German]] attack, he is taken prisoner. With the assistance of [[Charles de Gaulle]], he manages to escape and is assigned to the [[France|French]] army as a courier. He is sent to [[Africa]] and [[Commissioned officer|commissioned]] as a [[lieutenant]]. His inability to read a [[map]] causes him to lose his intended unit, and he instead joins the historic [[25th Royal Fusiliers]] of the [[British Army]], commanded by [[Frederick Selous]] - a team collectively known as "The Old and the Bold". Amongst other missions, the team destroys a German train-mounted cannon, and briefly kidnap the German military genius [[Paul Emil von Lettow-Vorbeck]]. During his stay in Africa, Jones becomes ill, and is treated by [[Albert Schweitzer]] (in the process meeting [[Barthélémy Bouganda]]). Shortly after his recovery, he is transferred back to the [[French Army]] and assigned a position as an [[spy|intelligence officer]]. Jones worked for [[French Intelligence]] for the remainder of the [[First World War]], going on undercover intelligence missions to [[Austria]], [[Barcelona]], [[Russia]], [[Prague]], [[Turkey]], [[Romania]], [[Italy]], and [[Istanbul]].
== Is GW Bush a young earth creationist? ==
I believe he is because he's a fundamentalist Methodist. [http://www.stnews.org/News-2121.htm This link] seems to support such a notion. Can anyone give definitive proof one way or the other? --[[User:Jason Gastrich|Jason Gastrich]] 00:19, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 
[[Image:YoungIndianaJones.jpg|thumb|right|Sean Patrick Flanery as young Indiana Jones.]]
:I don't know if he is, but the proof is upon you, if you make the assertion. And he's not a Fundamentalist. Fundamentalists are very much separatists who are quite suspicious of any doctrinal inclusiveness. If he were a Fundamentalist, he would leave the United Methodist Church. Bush is an Evangelical. And there is a difference.
Shortly after the end of the war (in [[1919]]), Jones embarks on an expedition to retrieve the [[Eye Of The Peacock]], a large [[diamond]] once owned by [[Alexander The Great]], traveling through [[Alexandria]] and [[Java]], eventually arriving in the [[South China Seas]]. Unable to recover the diamond, he returns to France and takes a position as a [[translator]] at the [[Paris Peace Conference]], becoming involved in the production of the [[Treaty of Versailles]], once again meeting [[T.E. Lawrence]]. He then returns to [[Chicago]], where he earns an [[undergraduate degree]] in archaeology, takes up the [[soprano saxophone]], and briefly works as a stuntman on an early [[John Ford]] [[Western (genre)|western]].
 
After completing his studies, he enrolls in a [[linguistics]] graduate program at the [[Sorbonne]] where first meets [[France|French]] archaeologist [[Rene Belloq]], a student studying for his [[Master's degree]] in archaeology. Belloq manages to win the Archaeological Society Prize with a paper on [[stratigraphy]], the majority of which was plagiarized from Jones' work. After completing his graduate program, Jones is hired for his first [[professor]]ial post at [[London University]]. The head of the university's archaeology department, Joanna Campbell, invites Jones to a dig in [[Whithorn]], [[Scotland]], on an expedition to investigate the legend of [[Merlin]]. There meets his future wife, Campbell's daughter Dierdre. Their marriage was cut short when she was killed in a plane crash during an expedition to [[Brazil]] in April of 1926.
:On Creationism, United Methodists run the gamut from Young Earth to Evolutionary Creationism. [[User:Pollinator|Pollinator]] 00:39, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 
Jones begins studying post-graduate [[archaeology]] at the [[University of Chicago]] under Professor Abner Ravenwood, also entering into a romantic relationship with the Professor's young daughter [[Marion Ravenwood|Marion]]. For reasons which are not documented, Jones leaves the Ravenwoods in approximately 1926, leading to a rift with Marion and his former mentor. After completing his [[Ph.D.]] in archaeology, Jones begins operating under the [[patron]]age of [[Marcus Brody]] (a friend of Jones's father who, in conjunction with prestigious [[museums]], funds archaeological expeditions and digs), and begins a regular post teaching [[Archaeology]] at Marshall College in [[Connecticut]]. (''Raiders of the Lost Ark'')
:That article is only pointing out that Bush thinks "creationism" should be allowed to be taught. Believing something should be allowed to be taught is not the same thing as agreeing with it. Also, "fundamentalist Methodist?" Sounds like an oxymoron to me. [[User:Markkbilbo|Mark K. Bilbo]] 00:36, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 
[[Image:Indiana Jones 2.jpg|thumb|200px|left|Harrison Ford as Jones in his Professorial role.]]
::I'm happy with having a discussion where citations are provided. No need to assume anything. --[[User:Jason Gastrich|Jason Gastrich]] 00:41, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
::By the way, fundamentalists simply affirm the fundamental doctrines of Christianity; and I understand that Bush does that. --[[User:Jason Gastrich|Jason Gastrich]] 00:42, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
:::However, without a source, should it be in the article? [[User:Matt Yeager|Matt Yeager]] 01:46, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
::::Of course not. However, I was hoping this discussion would bring links of all sorts that we could analyze. So far, no such luck. --[[User:Jason Gastrich|Jason Gastrich]] 06:29, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 
In [[1935]], Jones journeys to Ceylon (now known as [[Sri Lanka]]) to retrieve the idol of Kouru Watu, in the process meeting [[Nazi]] Albrecht Von Beck for the first time. Following his return to America, he is retained by the [[Chinese government]] to recover a mystical gem named [[The Heart of the Dragon]] from the ancient tomb of a Chinese emperor. (''[[Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb]]'')
::All Christians would say that they affirm the fundamental doctrines of Christianity. However Christian Fundamentalism is a movement with some important specifics, among them being rather rigorous separatism. Furthermore, does President Bush call himself a Fundamentalist? Associated Press guidelines (and a good NPOV guideline for Wikipedia) is that the appellation is only to be used for those who self-describe themeselves as Fundamentalists. [[User:Pollinator|Pollinator]] 01:51, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
:::All Christians saying they affirm the fundamentals isn't the issue. The issue is whether or not they actually do.
:::I think Bush has described himself as believing in the fundamentals of Christianity, but that is completely besides the point. ''We need to find some links that have Bush quotes where he describes his belief in the age of the Earth.'' --[[User:Jason Gastrich|Jason Gastrich]] 06:29, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 
===Feature films===
I'm quite surprised at this controversy. First, Bush is a [[politician]], and that's his primary belief system. Second, saying creationism should be taught (although a typical creationist belief) is not the same as being a creationist. Third, the definition of [[Christian_fundamentalism|Fundamentalist]] should be verified before leveling that accusation against Bush. It's not simply "he agree with certain fundamental christian beliefs". It is indeed more than that. Look at the link.
Immediately following these events, Jones travels to [[Shanghai]], where he is hired by the gangster [[Lao Che (character)|Lao Che]] to retrieve an artifact: an urn containing the remains of the emperor [[Nurhaci]]. Jones agrees to locate and recover the urn, in return for the Eye Of The Peacock, which has somehow come into Che's possession. He manages to retrieve the remains, and meets Che in a Shanghai club to perform the exchange. However, he is [[double cross]]ed and barely escapes with nightclub singer [[Willie Scott]] and his accomplice, a local boy named [[Short Round]]. Fleeing Lao Che, the group arrive in [[India]], where a group of villagers gets him to recover the [[Sankara Stones]] from the [[Thuggee]] (followers of the [[cult]] of [[Kali]]) (''Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom'').
 
In [[1936]], he travels to [[Peru]], to retrieve a golden [[Hovito Idol]] - however he is thwarted by his long time nemesis, archaeologist [[Rene Belloq]]. Upon his return to Marshall College, he is contracted by the [[United States]] [[government]] to retrieve the [[Ark of the Covenant]] before the [[Nazi]]s, who are at this time rising in power in [[Germany]]. Jones travels to [[Nepal]] to retrieve the Headpiece to the Staff of Ra - an artifact said to be capable of showing the final resting place of the Ark. In Nepal he once again meets [[Marion Ravenwood]], who is running a bar named ''The Raven''. After Marion's bar is destroyed by a team of [[Nazi]]s, the duo enter into a partnership to retrieve the Ark before the Nazis. (''Raiders of the Lost Ark'')
Also, and this is my personal opinion, Bush can't be a fundamentalist because he's even less Christian than I am, and I'm not Christian. [[User:Harvestdancer|Harvestdancer]] 21:04, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 
In [[1938]], Jones manages to recover the [[Cross of Coronado]] during a field trip to the [[Portugal|Portuguese]] coast - upon his return donating the artifact to [[Marcus Brody]] for museum display. Shortly after these events, he is contacted by [[Walter Donovan]] regarding the abduction of Jones' father by the [[Nazi]]s. Working with [[Austria]]n [[historian]] Dr. [[Elsa Schneider]], Jones manages to rescue his father from custody, and (together with [[Marcus Brody]]) they attempt to retrieve the [[Holy Grail]] before Donovan, Schneider and an [[SS]] officer named [[Colonel Vogel]] (''Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade'').
:Pollinator is quite correct; were President Bush a fundamentalist, he would immediately leave the UMC. He is by definition ''not'' a fundamentalist, though he seems to be, as Pollinator points out, evangelical. Fundamentalism is not compatible with United Methodism; evangelicalism is compeletely compatible with United Methodism; as Pollinator has said, please note the difference. [[User:KHM03|KHM03]] 21:09, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 
In May of [[1939]], Jones, following a visit by agents of the [[Third Reich]], discovers that the [[Nazi]]s plan to harness the power of [[Orichalcum]]. He collaborates with former pupil [[Sophia Hapgood]] in a quest to disrupt the [[Fuhrer]]'s plans, in the process locating the lost [[continent]] of [[Atlantis]] (''[[Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis]]'').
::Methodists went back to the practice of [[paedobaptism]] with the other mainline Protestant churches. Fundamentalists universally insist on adult baptism. [[User:Endomion|Endomion]] 03:52, 30 December 2005 (UTC)
[[Image:Mo 37.jpeg|thumb|right|199px|Harrison Ford, in a cameo for an episode of ''The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles'', set in 1951.]]
 
In [[1947]], while on an archaeological dig in [[Utah]], he is retained by the recently formed [[Central Intelligence Agency]] to investigate unusual activity in [[Kazakhstan]]. Jones discovers that rogue agents of the [[Soviet Union]], led by [[physicist]] [[Gennadi Volodnikov]], are searching for ancient [[relic]]s that form the mechanism of the [[Babylon]]ian Infernal Machine - originally housed in the [[biblical]] [[Tower of Babel]]. Jones, aided once more by [[Sophia Hapgood]], attempts to recover the artifacts before the Soviets (''[[Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine]]'').
== An issue to add ==
 
==Artifacts==
I was surprised that the article had nothing about Bush's policies on detainee treatment, enemy combatants, Abu Ghraib, the McCain amendment on torture, interrogation methods, etc. Can I add a small section on this? Is there a {mainarticle} to link to? [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 02:03, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
* Idol of Kouru Watu (''[[Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb]]'')
* [[The Heart of the Dragon]] (''Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb'')
* [[Nurhaci]]'s Ashes (''[[Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom]]'')
* [[Sankara Stones]] (''Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom'')
* [[Hovito Idol]] (''[[Raiders of the Lost Ark]]'')
* [[Ark of the Covenant]] (''Raiders of the Lost Ark'')
* Cross of Coronado (''[[Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade]]'')
* [[Holy Grail]] (''Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade'')
* [[Atlantis]] (''[[Indiana Jones and the Fate of Atlantis]]'')
* Infernal Machine (''[[Indiana Jones and the Infernal Machine]]'')
 
==Unclear canonicity==
*And the POV just keeps on growing. Why don't we just rename the article "Why George W. Bush is the antichrist"? This article has already become a dumping ground of every Bush criticism that can be found with absolutely nothing indicating he has ever done anything good in his life. -- [[User:Jbamb|Jbamb]] 13:44, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
As seen in the original versions of 'The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles', Jones (in [[1993]], at the age of 94) lives in [[New York City]], and has a daughter and several grandchildren. The exact age of the daughter is not explicitly mentioned; however given her appearance it seems reasonable to place her between 30 and 40 years old. For a [[1999]] video release, George Lucas opted to completely remove George Hall's bookend sections from 'The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles', and consequently their [[canon (fiction)|canon]]icity (and that of Jones' daughter and grandchildren) has become unclear.
 
As is often the case with expanded franchises, many of Indiana Jones's adventures within his ''[[expanded universe]]'' contradict the LucasFilm/LucasArts canon. The novel ''Indiana Jones and the Dinosaur Eggs'' states that Jones meets the smuggler Wu Han in 1933 - however it is later established in the videogame ''Indiana Jones and the Emperor's Tomb'' that he meets the character in 1935.
I guess the truth hurts. He's a semi-retarded former alcoholic and crack addict who has been repeatedly estimated as being responsible for over 100,000 deaths in Iraq. He and his administration have also worked tirelessly to completely dismantle the American political system. He and his demoniac vice president have also had the unspeakable gall to criticise John Murtha and John McCain, men who had decorated military careers before entering politics, when Bush and Cheney both dodged military service themselves.
 
== Influence on popular culture ==
-- "He's a semi-retarded former alcholic and crack addict" -- with degrees from Yale and Harvard. Funny how that works, isn't it?
Whilst himself arguably a [[pastiche]] of various prior [[adventurers]], the character can also be seen as a forerunner to (or in some cases direct influence on) other more recent fictional adventurers of a similar nature. These include:
* [[Lara Croft]], the self-styled [[Tomb Raider]] of the eponymous franchise
* Jack Colton, a [[mercenary]] and treasure-hunter seen in ''[[Romancing The Stone]]''
* Ben Gates, a [[cryptologist]] featured in the 2004 film ''[[National Treasure (film)|National Treasure]]''
* [[Symbology]] professor [[Robert Langdon]], protagonist of the novel and film ''[[The Da Vinci Code]]''
* [[Rick O'Connell]], an adventurer and treasure-hunter seen in the 1999 film ''[[The Mummy (1999 film)|The Mummy]]'' and ''[[The Mummy Returns]]''.
* The latter-day adventures of [[Dirk Pitt]], Special Projects Director of NUMA (the [[National Underwater and Marine Agency]])
* Sydney Fox, a female archaeologist and [[martial arts]] expert, star of the television series ''[[Relic Hunter]]''
* Johnny Thunder, an adventurer and archaeologist from the [[Lego Adventurers]] building toy theme.
* The "Cliffhangers" series of stories in the online comic strip ''[[Irregular Webcomic!]]''. This includes a spoof of Indiana Jones, (Montana Jones, North Dakota Jones, and Minnesota Jones )
 
The character of Indiana Jones has been directly referenced by several video game characters , such as : -
:Not if you know anything about his family history, it isn't. Degrees can be bought and/or forged. It's all about having money and knowing the right people. That's how he was able to dodge military service as well. He's also been repeatedly acknowledged as the least intelligent member of the family.
* Alabama Smith, protagonist of the ''[[Paganitzu]]'' computer game series
:[[User:Petrus4|Petrus4]] 04:38, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
* [[Rick Dangerous]], as featured in the eponymous video game by [[Core Design]]
 
Various Indiana Jones references have found their way into popular culture:
I find myself wondering what the oblivious minority who still defend Bush are going to think when the mask finally fully comes off, and they wake up one morning to find themselves living in what will unmistakably be a repetition of Nazi Germany, complete with concentration camps and all the other trimmings. I guess the rest of us will be shown not to have simply been paranoid, crackpot conspiracy theorists then, won't we?
* Numerous references in ''[[The Simpsons]]''; most notably in the episode "[[Bart's Friend Falls in Love]]", in which Bart recreates the opening sequence of ''[[Raiders of the Lost Ark]]'', with Homer doubling as both the angry Hovitos and the huge boulder.<ref name="SimpsonsParody">"[http://www.theindyexperience.com/zip_file_archive/simpsons_chase_video.zip] [[Simpsons]] parody of ''Raiders of the Lost Ark'', featuring [[Bart Simpson]] as Indiana Jones." January 23, 2007.</ref>
*In the Simpsons episode ''[[Kiss Kiss, Bang Bangalore]]'', in which the Nuclear plant is outsourced to [[India]], [[Mr Burns]] refers to a dinner engagement, where the main meal is 'scooped out monkey head' (a reference to ''Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom'').
* A short parody near the beginning of ''[[The Rugrats Movie]]'', featuring a rolling boulder and the iconic theme. [[Tommy Pickles|Tommy]] calls himself 'Okey Dokey Jones', and carries a bullwhip (although [[Chuckie]] is dressed more like Jones with a Fedora hat, brown leather jacket, brown shoes, and bag)
* Another parody character was ''Mississippi Smith'', who had a cameo role in ''[[Aaahh!!! Real Monsters]]''
* In the opening sequence to the film ''[[UHF (film)|UHF]]'', [["Weird Al" Yankovic]] parodies the opening scene from the first movie
* In an episode of the [[NBC]] television show ''[[Friends]]'' ("[[The One with the Cooking Class]]"), [[Ross Geller]], a [[paleontologist]], is compared to Indiana Jones by a potential girlfriend - much to his delight: '''''Katie:''' A paleontologist who works out... you're like Indiana Jones.'' '''''Ross:''' ...I '''am''' like Indiana Jones!''
* In the popular online game ''[[World of Warcraft]]'' (during the [[Instance (World of Warcraft)|instance]] known as ''Uldaman'') the player encounters a quest for a staff and an amulet, which must be combined and placed within a miniature city (echoing the scene from ''Raiders of the Lost Ark'')[http://www.eeggs.com/items/47546.html].
* In the 2006 movie ''[[Pirates of the Carribbean: Dead Man's Chest]]'', [[Captain Jack Sparrow]] (in a homage to a similar scene in ''[[Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom]]'' involving Jones's Revolver) is shown trying to draw his [[sword]], pausing for a moment as he realizes it is not there, then grinning sheepishly before the action continues. Also, on Cannibal Island in Dead Man's Chest, Captain Jack Sparrow running down the beach away from the Pelegostos giving chase appears to be an homage to Indy running from the Hovitos in Raiders of the Lost Ark, including a shot where for one moment the crowd appears closer to him than shown in the rest of the chase.
* Indiana Jones makes an appearance in the [[Adobe Flash|Flash]] movie ''[[Ultimate Showdown of Ultimate Destiny]]'', where he trips a [[zombie]] [[Abraham Lincoln]] with his bullwhip, and attempts to shoot [[Godzilla]] (only to realize, in a tribute to ''[[Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom]]'', that his revolver is missing). He is later defeated by a kick to the [[groin]], delivered by [[Chuck Norris]].
*The TV series [[Family Guy]] has several scenes in several episodes parodying or paying homage to Indiana Jones. One is a parody of the Raiders scene where Indy is attempting to remove an idol and replace it with a bag of sand, and whilst preparing, Ralph Kramden shouts, " WILL YOU JUST PICK IT UP ALREADY?! ". Also, in order to find his black book, Peter goes into the attic and uses a stick and an amulet to focus sun beams at the ___location of the book. In the famous Peter vs. Chicken fight in the episode '[[Da Boom]]', the eponymous chicken is eventually killed in a manner identical to (even mimicking the sequence shot for shot) the German in ''Raiders'': minced by a flying wing propeller. Also, in an episode in which Peter and his son Stewie go to a Disney Park, they steal disguises from the Indiana Jones ride, Peter dressed as Indy and Stewie as Short Round from The Temple of Doom. Stewie also portrays Short Round in one of the "quick-cut" scenes in which he accidentally triggers a trap and then remarks; "Lady only here cause she doing director."
*In another episode of [[The Simpsons]], the character 'Snake' appears wearing a similar outfit to Jones (complete with hat, jacket, and bag full of gold coins) stating that he is an archaeologist.
* Chip from the 1989 Disney cartoon series [[Chip 'n Dale Rescue Rangers]], appears wearing a fedora as part of his costume, the rest of his outfit resembles Jones's, but only in color as the jacket appears to be sheepskin, not leather.
* [[Kevin Smith]] has referenced Indiana Jones several times in his films, most memorably in ''[[Dogma]]'' where [[Silent Bob]] hurls antagonists Bartleby and Loki from a moving train, only to turn to the other passengers and 'explain' "No ticket!", a homage to the sequence in ''The Last Crusade'' where Indy throws Colonel Vogel from the Zeppelin's window with the same 'explanation' to the Zeppelin's passengers. Smith has also included minor references, such as [[Randal Graves]]'s "No time for love, Dr. Jones!", a quote from ''Temple Of Doom''.
* [[Muppet Babies]] made reference to Indiana Jones, namely when Baby Kermit would imagine himself as "Indiana Frog" with the same fedora, leather jacket and whip. One particular episode had the Muppet Babies searching for Baby Animal and overcoming their fear of the basement, believing it to be the Temple of Doom, in which they were trapped by Mola Ram and saved by Indiana Frog. Live action footage of the film combined with their adventures, namely the mine car chase scenes.
* Indiana Jones also appeared in posters promoting the [[public library]]. In one particular poster he is using his bullwhip to snag on to a branch in order to avoid a poisonous snake, and he is firmly holding library books in the other hand. The poster tells children the importance of bringing back their library books on time, with the words "Return the Adventure!" written in same style lettering on the film posters.
* [[ALF Tales]] spoofed "The Last Crusade" in an episode parodying the tale of [[King Midas]]. ALF is dressed as Indiana Jones, who is hired by King Midas (who has transformed his family into gold) to find the Holy Grail as it has the power to return them to normal. ALF is assisted by his girlfriend Rhonda who is an expert on the Grail. Several scenes are referenced, such as Indy's fear of snakes, which Rhonda tells him not to imagine them as snakes (ALF succeeds at somehow having them transform into cows, which Rhonda claims she is terrified of), or having to select the true Grail from a selection of several. (In this case, the True Grail is a coffee mug which reads "Bud's Donuts").
* [[Malcolm in the Middle]] spoofed Indiana Jones running from the boulder in the Season 4 Episode 13 "Stereo Store". Hal has a choice to stay and help close up the store with the boss or go party with his much younger, slacker co-workers. When he chooses to go party his boss hits the button that makes the metal security gate begin to close. Hal sees the security gate begin to drop and tries to beat it. While making a run for the door a cup of pencils gets knocked over into the fan making them projectiles that just narrowly miss Hal, much like darts when Indiana Jones is escaping the room with the golden idol. The door continues to close and a beach ball starts rolling after Hal. He looks back at it, screams and begins to run faster. He narrowly slides under the gate and reaches back under the gate at the last minute to grab his keys, similar to when Indy rolls under the door and reaches back to grab his whip. All the while the "Raiders March" music plays in the background.
* In the game [[Discworld (video game)|Discworld]], the main character [[Rincewind]] parodies the sand bag change from Raiders of the Lost Ark in a puzzle, he is then chased out of the cave by a boulder which eventually turns out to be a tiny pebble that was zoomed upon.
* At one point in [[Matthew Reilly]]'s [[Seven Deadly Wonders]], the characters are at the bottom of a ramp with a pipe at the top (inside a booby-trapped temple). When a rumbling comes from the pipe, one of them remarks, "Let me guess. A boulder is going to roll out of there and chase us down, just like in ''[[Raiders of the Lost Ark]]''."
* Sometimes, in the video game [[Lego Star Wars II]], if the character of Wedge Antilles had had his blaster holstered for a while, when you tried to draw it, you would draw nothing but air, then he would check his other hip, find it there, and finally draw it, a possible homage to the scene from ''Temple of Doom''.
* In Ace Ventura: When Nature Calls there is a shot similar to the escape by Indiana from the Hovitos, where Ace is running across a grass plain with the Wachutu Tribe following behind him.
* In the video game [[GTA: Vice City]], in the mission Dildo DoDo you have to fly a water plane used in an "old Indy movie". This is referring to the water plane used in the first of the Indiana Jones movies, Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark.
* The video game [[Quackshot]], starring [[Donald Duck]] has several references to Indiana Jones, including the logo, clothing and scenes from the movie.
 
== DVD release ==
"and they wake up one morning to find themselves living in what will unmistakably be a repetition of Nazi Germany" -- if you actually believe that, you're either semi-retarded yourself, or you have no understanding of what life in Nazi Germany was like. Attack the man on legitimate grounds if you want, but leave out the childish hyperbole and you might actually be taken seriously.
=== The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles ===
As detailed in the revised and updated edition of the book ''George Lucas: The Creative Impulse'' (by [[Charles Champlin]]), Lucas has been working for some time on drastically re-editing and restructuring the show for a [[DVD]] release. According to a statement by series producer [[Rick McCallum]] of [[Lucasfilm]], this work has been 'ramped up' in order for a boxset release to tie in with the theatrical debut of the as-yet-untitled fourth movie. Amongst other extras, the discs will include approximately 100 new historical featurettes, now in production. Major structural changes are alleged to have been made to the show, including the complete removal of the 93 year old Jones 'bookend' sections, extensive re-shoots, and removal of complete episodes for better historical continuity.
 
=== Feature films ===
:I know that people were woken up in the early hours of the morning at times and dragged off by the Gestapo. I know they had to use bulldozers to clear the corpses out of at least some of the concentration camps. I know about the culture of racism that existed in Germany at the time...which, although you might not realise it, is actually fairly similar to the culture of racism that has been an integral part of America since the country was founded. I also know that like the German army under Hitler, there are far too many members of the American military today who are willing to follow orders without question - orders which morally should not be followed.
[[Image:IndyDVD's.jpg|thumb|right|The 2003 DVD release of the feature films.]]
::I don't think anyone'll be moving large portions of the population out into concentration camps as long as (what's left of) the economy is built on over-priced real-estate and 2nd and 3rd mortgages. Of course, when that bubble bursts all bets are off -- in fact supercheap real-estate might be welcomed by millions of the newly unemployed. [[User:58.147.24.196|58.147.24.196]] 18:12, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
Chapters 23&ndash;25 of the Indiana Jones series (''Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom'', ''Indiana Jones and the Raiders of the Lost Ark'' and ''Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade'', respectively) were released on DVD as a boxed set of all three films (complete with a fourth disc of bonus materials) in 2003.
:You can call me childish if it makes you feel better, but that doesn't change anything.
:[[User:Petrus4|Petrus4]] 04:38, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 
'''Features'''
I dunno man. After the Gestapo came for Janeane Garofalo in the middle of the night and fed her into that chipper shredder, I been starting to worry....
* Available Subtitles (US edition): English, Spanish, French
[[User:64.2.235.137|64.2.235.137]] 18:28, 30 December 2005 (UTC)Strider
* Available Audio Tracks (US edition): English (Dolby Digital 5.1), Spanish (Dolby Digital 2.0 Surround), French (Dolby Digital 2.0 Surround)
:In fact there is a lot of parallels between the Nazi regime and the Bush regime. Like the History reapeats itself. See the following interesting link [http://www.oilempire.us/]. [[User:Wikipoet|Wikipoet]] 12:19, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
* Contains all three films in their original format (2.35:1 anamorphic widescreen aspect ratio or in Pan and Scan format), restored and digitally remastered by [[Lowry Digital Images]]
<br />
[[User:Petrus4|Petrus4]] 03:07, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
'''Bonus disc features'''
:re: including information about "Bush's policies on detainee treatment, enemy combatants..." Yes, we do need to include this information. Right now, the article reads like a puff piece from Karl Rove. By contrast, the article on Clinton includes every crazy, wild-eyed allegation ever made by right-wing talk radio ("Clinton murdered Vince Foster," etc.).
* A new, feature-length documentary of the making of the trilogy
* From the Lucasfilm Archives:
** ''The Stunts of Indiana Jones''
** ''The Sound of Indiana Jones''
** ''The Music of Indiana Jones''
** ''The Light and Magic of Indiana Jones''
* Original trailers
* A behind-the-scenes look at Harrison Ford getting into character, both mentally and physically
* Weblink to exclusive content including dozens of behind-the-scenes photos, an animatic sequence and a PC game preview
 
==References==
::Well, that must mean we are coming close to NPOV. Critics on both sides think it leans the other way. I guess that's a good sign. As to Harry491's comment, I would disagree that they are "Bush's policies". Some are DoD policies, some are things critics want to portray as policies. --[[User:Lord Voldemort|<font color="purple">LV</font>]] <sup><font color="#3D9140">[[User talk:Lord Voldemort|(Dark Mark)]]</font></sup> 15:17, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
{{reflist}}
* Fleurier, Nicolas, ''James Bond & Indiana Jones. Action figures'', Histoire & Collections, 2006.
 
== Cultural References ==
:::I think they are "policies." Even if torture etc. isn't a policy, ''stopping other branches from stopping torture'' is definitely policy. Read as many of the following as you like: [http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A26401-2004Jun8.html][http://balkin.blogspot.com/2005/07/president-tells-congress-to-take-hike.html][http://balkin.blogspot.com/2005/03/defining-torture-down.html][http://www.law.yale.edu/outside/html/Public_Affairs/477/yls_article.htm][[http://www.law.yale.edu/outside/html/Public_Affairs/477/yls_article.htm][http://balkin.blogspot.com/2004/06/white-house-backs-away-from-torture.html]. There are people (e.g. [[National Review]]) that defend this stuff, so it wouldn't have to be POV. But executive power in the war on terrorism and the level of oversight from other branches is a major issue that this article needs to discuss, ''even if you support what Bush is doing''. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 18:20, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
* Satirical piece from McSweeney's Internet Tendency: "Back From Yet Another Globetrotting Adventure, Indiana Jones Checks His Mail and Discovers That His Bid for Tenure Has Been Denied." [http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2006/10/10bryan.html]
::::Actually, even if Bush were to veto the bill, that wouldn't be policy, that would simply be him vetoing a piece of legislation. And didn't Bush say that the US does not torture? Wouldn't that be his policy? Sorry, I don't have the talking points at hand right now. --[[User:Lord Voldemort|<font color="purple">LV</font>]] <sup><font color="#3D9140">[[User talk:Lord Voldemort|(Dark Mark)]]</font></sup> 20:29, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 
==External links==
{{Wikiquote}}
* [http://www.indianajones.com IndianaJones.com] &mdash; the official Indiana Jones site
* [http://www.theraider.net TheRaider.net] &mdash; a major fan site of the series
* [http://indianajones.wikicities.com The Indiana Jones Wiki]
* [http://www.seedwiki.com/wiki/chronology_central/indiana_jones.cfm?wpid=183410 Chronology Central's Indiana Jones page] &mdash; site contains a chronological reading/viewing order listing for all of the Indiana Jones films, episodes, novels, comic books and video games in the Indiana Jones continuity.
 
{{Indiana Jones}}
: To be exact he killed about 30'000 civilian Iraqi [http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ iraqbodycount], about 2’500 coalition soldiers [http://icasualties.org/oif/] and an unknown number (estimated to 10’000) Iraqi soldiers. The original reason of the Iraq war (WMD) is a farce. The connection to terrorism is a farce. The reason of war is the oil [http://wolf.readinglitho.co.uk/mainpages/oilwars.html] and I am surprised that this issue is not mentioned. The energy crisis will still be <!--FILLED WITH THE DEAD CORPSES OF LITTLE BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!! AHHHAHHAHAHAHHAHHAHHAHAHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ... -->the problem nr.1 of this century.[[User:Wikipoet|Wikipoet]] 10:26, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
{{Indiana Jones games}}
 
{{DEFAULTSORT:Jones, Indiana}}
::Well if you feel you can add that in while sticking to a [[WP:NPOV|neutral point of view]] then it can be added. I'd say for sure that it is encyclopedic material... just make sure you don't put opinion in and it will be a valuable contribution! [[User:Deskana|Deskana]] <font size="1">[[User_Talk:Deskana|(talk page)]]</font> 12:17, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
[[Category:Fictional archaeologists|Jones, Indiana]]
[[Category:Fictional professors|Jones, Indiana]]
[[Category:Fictional military personnel|Jones, Indiana]]
[[Category:Indiana Jones characters]]
[[Category:Fictional Americans|Jones, Indiana]]
[[Category:Fictional Scottish-Americans|Jones, Indiana]]<!--father is Scottish-->
[[Category:Pulp heroes and villains]]
[[Category:Sequel films]]
 
[[ca:Indiana Jones]]
::: My contribution seems that foe some peaople is not POV. It is based on facts and I think that the Energy Strategy is the most important issue in the history of the 21th Century: Here my contribution. Please rethink or proove that the facts I list are wrong before immidiatelly delete it. My contribution is also an aswer on the question "why Iraq War?"
[[cs:Indiana Jones]]
 
[[de:Indiana Jones]]
:::'''Energy Strategy Behind the Iraq War'''
[[et:Indiana Jones]]
 
[[es:Indiana Jones]]
:::While much time and discussions ware spent on finding reasons for the invasion of Iraq, one of the clearest strategic reason for the USA to attack Iraq in 2003 was securing future oil supplies. The proposed reasons (links with [[Al-Qaeda]], threats to other countries, the [[WMD]]) have all been refuted or, at least, shown to be seriously flawed. The world consumes about 30 billion barrels of oil per year with a global reserve (including all possible future discoveries) of about 1000 billion barrels [http://planetforlife.com/oilcrisis/index.html]. Neglecting increases of consumption there is oil until maximal 2038. The USA has about 25 billion barrels reserves while consuming about 7.5 billion barrels per year. Around 2010 more than 50% of the world’s oil production will come from [[OPEC]] (reserve of about 500 billion barrels) and with other major supplies also being in unstable areas - eg. [[Venezuela]] (reserve of about 40 billion barrels), [[Russia]] (reserve of about 90 billion barrels)- there is a great fear that the USA could be held to ransom in the future, especially since it uses far more oil than any other country. It is not unusual in the [[history]] for countries to strategically go to [[war]] to secure something that they absolutely need and do not have. The [[industrial civilisation]] is extremely depended on oil and [[alternative energy]] sources or [[nuclear fusion]] even in its modernst design ([[ITER]]) will not be able to replace oil in a near future (50 years). USA and Europe would have not worried to liberate [[Kuwait]] (58 billion barrels), or invade Iraq (71 billion barrels), if did not have together 129 billion barrels oil reserves. It is probable that there will be many more wars for oil in the first decades of the [[21th Century]]. There are four countries which will decide future wars: [[Europe]] ([[EU]]), [[Russia]], [[China]] and the [[USA]]. Europe has high energy use but its federal structure may not be strong enough to use its [[armed forces]] to secure oil supplies. Russia has the advantage of having its own large reserves of oil and gas (about 90 billion barrels), and its military will probably be concerned with stopping others getting access to it, rather than obtaining other countries' resources. China does not, as yet, require large amounts of energy and its future attitude could depend on how it could restrict the growth in [[energy]] needs. The USA is the key player: it is not only the highest energy consumer in the world, it has the strongest military forces, but, unlike the other three, it has no land access to the two largest oil and gas sources – the [[Middle East]] and the [[Caspian region]]. Transporting oil and gas by sea is a very vulnerable method of supply. It is much easier to replace a length of [[oil pipeline]] than an [[oil tanker]]. It is easier to bury a pipeline underground than to design a submersible tanker. This vulnerability will make USA likely to be centre stage in future wars.
[[fr:Indiana Jones]]
 
[[ko:인디애나 존스]]
::: I will reformulate some sentences to be more POV, but this issue is really important, and if somebody can proove me that if oil will end at 2038 is not of strategic importance, I am open to discuss.[[User:Wikipoet|Wikipoet]] 14:49, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
[[it:Indiana Jones]]
 
[[he:אינדיאנה ג'ונס]]
:::: Is this POV? Why?
[[nl:Indiana Jones]]
 
[[ja:インディ・ジョーンズ]]
::::'''Energy'''
[[no:Indiana Jones]]
 
[[oc:Indiana Jones]]
::::The world consumes about 30 billion barrels of oil per year with a global reserve (including all possible future discoveries) of about 1000 billion barrels [http://planetforlife.com/oilcrisis/index.html]. Neglecting increases of consumption there is oil until maximal 2038. The USA has about 25 billion barrels reserves while consuming about 7.5 billion barrels per year. Around 2010 more than 50% of the world’s oil production will come from [[OPEC]] (reserve of about 500 billion barrels) and with other major supplies also being in unstable areas - eg. [[Venezuela]] (reserve of about 40 billion barrels), [[Russia]] (reserve of about 90 billion barrels)- there is a great fear that the USA could be held to ransom in the future, especially since it uses far more oil than any other country. One of the strategic reasons for the USA to attack Iraq in 2003 was securing future oil supplies. This strategy was designed by the organisation "[[Project for the New American Century]]”, among their members are [[Jeb Bush]], [[Dick Cheney]], [[Dan Quayle]], [[Donald Rumsfeld]] and [[Paul Wolfowitz]], who make clear the attitude of the USA with respect the oil and energy strategic reagions[http://www.newamericancentury.org]. It is not unusual in the [[history]] for countries to strategically go to [[war]] to secure something that they absolutely need and do not have. The [[industrial civilisation]] is extremely depended on oil and [[alternative energy]] sources or [[nuclear fusion]] even in its modernst design ([[ITER]]) will not be able to replace oil in a near future (50 years). It is probable that there will be many more wars for oil in the first decades of the [[21th Century]]. There are four countries which will decide future energy conflicts: [[Europe]] ([[EU]]), [[Russia]], [[China]] and the [[USA]]. Europe has high energy use but its federal structure may not be strong enough to use its [[armed forces]] to secure oil supplies. Russia has the advantage of having its own large reserves of oil and gas (about 90 billion barrels), and its military will probably be concerned with stopping others getting access to it, rather than obtaining other countries' resources. China does not, as yet, require large amounts of energy and its future attitude could depend on how it could restrict the growth in [[energy]] needs. The USA is the key player: it is not only the highest energy consumer in the world, it has the strongest military forces, but, unlike the other three, it has no land access to the two largest oil and gas sources – the [[Middle East]] and the [[Caspian region]]. Transporting oil and gas by sea is a very vulnerable method of supply. It is much easier to replace a length of [[oil pipeline]] than an [[oil tanker]]. It is easier to bury a pipeline underground than to design a submersible tanker. This vulnerability will make USA likely to be centre stage in future security issues.[[User:Wikipoet|Wikipoet]] 15:14, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
[[pl:Indiana Jones]]
 
[[pt:Indiana Jones]]
:::::First, what we put into the article needs to be [[WP:V|verifiable]]. At this point, we cannot ''prove'' that the US went to war for oil. Second, [[WP:NOR|no original research]] can be added, and that is what this whole section appears to be. Sorry. --[[User:Lord Voldemort|<font color="purple">LV</font>]] <sup><font color="#3D9140">[[User talk:Lord Voldemort|(Dark Mark)]]</font></sup> 15:56, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
[[ru:Индиана Джонс]]
 
[[sq:Indiana Jones]]
:::::: It is not my NOR and it is verifiable at [http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=5570] dated 7 jan 2003.[[User:Wikipoet|Wikipoet]] 16:17, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
[[simple:Indiana Jones]]
 
[[sk:Indiana Jones]]
:::::::Okay, first, that link still doesn't prove anything. It is a couple of opinions from Butt, and later in the piece, quoting Stimpson to Parliament. It has a good bit of "shows signs of..." and "could lead to..." and "might happen if". Until there is [[proof]] that the U.S. invaded Iraq for oil, we can't include it. I could find quotes of people saying Bush wanted to go to war to avenge his father's quarrel with Saddam, but does that make it true? No. Just because you find something on the Internet does not make it fact or verifiable. --[[User:Lord Voldemort|<font color="purple">LV</font>]] <sup><font color="#3D9140">[[User talk:Lord Voldemort|(Dark Mark)]]</font></sup> 16:51, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
[[fi:Indiana Jones]]
 
[[sv:Indiana Jones]]
:::::::: ok, here some video testimoniance and documents supporting this theses: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/media/video/40939000/rm/_40939079_oil22_palast17_vi.ram], [http://www.gregpalast.com/opeconthemarch.html], [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/4354269.stm], [http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=418&row=1], [http://www.gregpalast.com/detail.cfm?artid=417&row=0], [http://www.commondreams.org/headlines03/0411-09.htm],[http://www.maconareaonline.com/news.asp?id=10198],[http://www.prisonplanet.com/news_alert_092302_oil.html], [http://www.aljazeera.com/cgi-bin/conspiracy_theory/fullstory.asp?id=204], [http://canberra.usembassy.gov/hyper/2003/0124/epf503.htm], [http://www.finalcall.com/international/bush_iraq10-08-2002.htm], [http://www.fpif.org/pdf/reports/IOR-oilrev.pdf]. I think that this is enough to open a discussion and have some doubt that that wasn't a reason? [[User:Wikipoet|Wikipoet]] 17:31, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
[[tr:Indiana Jones]]
 
[[zh:印第安那·琼斯]]
:::::::::No offence, but I'm not going to indulge these conspiracy theories any longer. But you are more than welcome to your opinion. See you around. --[[User:Lord Voldemort|<font color="purple">LV</font>]] <sup><font color="#3D9140">[[User talk:Lord Voldemort|(Dark Mark)]]</font></sup> 17:42, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
:::::::::: Thanks, you are also welcome and anyone is welcome with opinions. We will see in 30 years what the History will tell us, or just the next president. Anyway having doubts on some official opinion does not mean conspiration theory, it is just the nature of humans. US did not invade the Iraq for oil? For what then? A mistake of the CIA information? This is what Bush is telling us. Saddam didn’t have weapons of mass destruction or any links with Al Qaeda, and the [[Downing Street memo]] prove that Bush knew all this before invading Iraq. That is very, very tragic for all victims. Who will tell that to all mothers of the dead soldiers, to all relatives of the dead civilians. Killed honourable and courageous Americans and Iraqi for a ‘noble cause’? Which ‘noble cause’? Not even the oil for survive the next 40 years? No ideal, No idea, no goals, no strategy, no reason, just a mistake, a misunderstanding…. No offence, but indulging doubts you could fight the war or at least find a ‘noble cause’. I find it tragic that today, in US, there is somebody else called George who lives and works in a city which was named after George Washington – and as opposed to this first George, he is a man who can never tell the truth. This second George is forced to spend all his time trying to sort out the damage his lies have created. And he’s starting to look more and more like a circus juggler who keeps throwing balls up into the air and tries to catch them before they hit the ground – but in reality those balls are bombs which fall on kids who are playing in real streets. Have a nice evening. Yours [[User:Wikipoet|Wikipoet]] 18:20, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
:::::::::::Wow, I can here the violins now. By the way, George Washington had more men die under his watch at one winter in Valley Forge than Bush has had die in Iraq so far, so don't think Washington was some untouchable figure from history. Cheers. --[[User:Lord Voldemort|<font color="purple">LV</font>]] <sup><font color="#3D9140">[[User talk:Lord Voldemort|(Dark Mark)]]</font></sup> 18:46, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
== GW Bush in the Nobel Prize Literature ==
 
Is it possible to add a link to the new work of [[Dario Fo]] (Nobel Price Laureate of Literature) dedicated to Bush, or the wikipedians are afraid by arts? Here the link to the work: [[http://modernword.wikispaces.com/Dario+Fo+Franca+Rame Peace Mom]]. Of course, this work critics the Bush Iraq politics, because no WMD was found, and this can hurt some Bush fan, but it is still a literature work of a Nobel laureate!!! and it is part of the world culture. If a link to Michael Moore's site is inserted why not a link to a Literature Nobel laureate? [[User:Wikipoet|Wikipoet]] 09:54, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
:: Why the following link will always be deleted? is that POV or censorship?<!--or YOUR MOTHER?!-->
::* [[Dario Fo]] ([[Literature Nobel Prize]] laureate) write in December 2005 a theater piece dedicated to Bush [http://www.dariofo.it/files/peace%20mom%20FoRame%20(English).pdf].[[User:Wikipoet|Wikipoet]] 16:25, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
:::That fact belongs on the [[Dario Fo]] page. It's too minor to be mentioned in this article unless it has received some really significant mainstream press coverage. [[User:Android79|<span style="color: green">android</span>]][[User talk:Android79|<span style="color: purple">79</span>]] 16:28, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
== Bush at Kennedy Center Honours ==
Did anyone see him lick his lips when looking down at Beyonce Knowles? Anyway did he get a mention for being at the KCH? --[[User:Jingofetts|Jingofetts]] 18:56, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
** Maybe he had dry lips? Who cares anyway? Beyonce makes me lick my lips sometimes too. [[User:J.smith|Justin]] 20:18, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 
but the president? {{disputed}} he licked his lips. --[[User:169.244.143.115|169.244.143.115]] 21:06, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
:I and my family noticed this as well. He looked completely bored and uninterested in any of it until a young, attractive, scantily clad African-American performer came on stage. While it might seem unbecoming of a middle-aged president and looked down upon by his base, I agree with [[User:J.smith|Justin]]: If he wants to be seen as someone who is attracted to Beyonce, there's no reason to stop him from conveying that image. I certainly am. [[User:WAvegetarian|WAvegetarian]] [[User talk:WAvegetarian|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] <small>[[Special:Emailuser/WAvegetarian|(email)]]</small> [[Special:Contributions/WAvegetarian| <sup>(contribs)</sup>]] 13:06, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 
== Christian Writer Category ==
 
Ok, he's a Christian, and he's a writer, but is he a Christian Writer? [[User:Harvestdancer|Harvestdancer]] 21:06, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 
== "Public perception and assessments" intro ==
 
I reworked the intro a bit, could use a bit of work but maybe it's the right direction? I guess my problem is that it uses the "supporters" vs. "opponents" mantra, but in real life I think its a bit more complicated. Also, does anyone know who coined the bushism term? Maybe it would be best to use that rather then the generic "opponents".
 
===Public perception and assessments===
Bush has been the subject of both popular praise and scathing criticism. Some believe he has done well with the [[Domestic policy of the George W. Bush administration|economy]] and homeland security, and shown exemplary leadership after the September 11 attacks. However, some have disagreed on those very subjects and have also criticized the passage of the [[USA PATRIOT Act]], the [[U.S. presidential election, 2000|controversial 2000 election]], and the [[2003 invasion of Iraq]].
 
[[Image:Time 2004 poty.jpg|thumb|Bush as ''[[TIME]]'' [[Person of the Year]] for in 2004. The ''Person of the Year'' award is traditionally given to the person considered by the editors to be the most important newsmaker of the year. This is the second time the magazine chose Bush as its [[Person of the Year]], the first of which was in 2000.]]
Due to Bush's colorful mistakes when speaking, opponents coined a new term, "[[bushism]]", to describe the grammatical configuration unique to Bush. [[Bushism]]s have been widely popularized and [http://www.dubyaspeak.com archived] across the [[Internet]] due to their humorous nature.
 
<small>[[User:RN|WhiteNight]] <sup><font color="#6BA800">[[User talk:RN|T]]</font> | <font color="#0033FF">[[Special:Emailuser/RN|@]]</font> | <font color="#FF0000">[[Special:Contributions/RN|C]]</font></sup></small> 22:17, 28 December 2005 (UTC)
 
==SProtect==
 
I'm pretty sure the vandals won't go away in a week. They are on a 3 year cycle most likely.--[[User:God_of_War|God_of]][[User Talk:God_of_War| War]] 01:29, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
*What is the point to semi-protection if it isn't to be implemented for extended periods? Why the big push for semi-protection just for this article, if we're just going to treat it like regular protection? I'm sure the devs would be glad to know they wasted their time on this. --<small>'''[[User:Brian0918|<font color="black">BRIAN</font>]]'''[[User_talk:Brian0918|<font color="gray">0918</font>]]</small> 03:32, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
*This article has a large number of creators without relying on anons to contribute, ergo semi-protection is a good idea here.--[[User:God_of_War|God_of]][[User Talk:God_of_War| War]] 03:40, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
**Most likely, semi-protection will be applied many times to this page. We still want to lift it regularly to justify that it is still a response and not a pre-emptive measure to vandalism long since past, but as long as it sustains serious vandalism, semi-protection will then be re-applied. --[[User:Kizzle|kizzle]] 04:05, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
**How about having the next lifting of semi-protection wait till, say, January? Of 2009? Because that's the earliest possible time that we're going to have a respite (at least a small one) from the flood of wannabe vandals. Thank God for term limits. [[User:Matt Yeager|Matt Yeager]] 05:35, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
The problem is, when many of us supported the implementation of [[WP:SEMI]] it was understood that it would be used in only the most egregious of situations (such as this article) and only for short periods of time...if we don't abide by this as clearly stated on the policy page, then we are risking losing it due to many people who have clearly stated that they are concerned about it being put in place on a more or less permanent basis.--[[User:MONGO|MONGO]] 12:35, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
:Yes, I saw this as a big problem from the start. When there was discussion about ''regular'' protection being applied permanently on this article (by itself or with a separate ediable article), that should have been a sign that people would push for permanent semi-protection. Perhaps the devs ''did'' waste their time. Just my thoughts, though. --[[User:Lord Voldemort|<font color="purple">LV</font>]] <sup><font color="#3D9140">[[User talk:Lord Voldemort|(Dark Mark)]]</font></sup> 16:00, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
Brian0918 wilfully misunderstands the use of [[WP:SEMI]]. It wasn't developed specifically for this article, which is so many peoples' favourite rallying cry for "anons must not edit". Sprotection is designed to treat a particular vandalism problem while allowing everyone else to continue as usual. To suggest it was designed as a means to apply long-term anon exclusion to articles, as is said above, completely misunderstands how a wiki works. And don't lecture me on the fact that this is an encyclopedia not a wiki: it is an encyclopedia written on the wiki model. The two concepts do not seperate, and should not be seperated.
 
If people really think the devs have wasted their time, they might look at [[WP:PP]] and see the perfectly good use that has been made of [[WP:SEMI]] since its introduction to deal with particular problems in a light-touch way. -[[User:Splash|Splash]]<small><sup>[[User talk:Splash|talk]]</sup></small> 18:06, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
* Where begins the border between semi-protection and censorship? [[User:Wikipoet|Wikipoet]] 18:25, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
*But this article is ''different'' from all the rest. There are more reverts on this page than on any other. This should show that this page is a special case. How many anonymous edits are good? Next to none. Maybe to indefinitely semi-protect this page is against the letter of the policy. Doubtless, however, it is within the spirit, which is to allow normal editors to edit without the distraction of vandalism. We have the option now; it would be a fantasticly stupid decision to not make use of it. [[User:Sam Korn|<nowiki>[[Sam Korn]]</nowiki>]] 18:41, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
I like the idea of periodically lifting semi-protection to gauge the article's continued attractiveness to vandals, but until he's been out of office for a year or so, that <nowiki>{{sprotected}}</nowiki> tag will probably have to be there most of the time. I worry about protection creep, but I don't buy the slippery slope arguments. He's the most controversial figure in the world, and there's no doubt it's a special case. We're not a bureaucracy, so we should be ready to accept ad hoc exceptions to our policies and guidelines. This is one of them. If you want to choose a battleground against protection creep, I suggest [[William Shakespeare]] or perhaps [[Joseph McCarthy]]. –[[User:Adashiel|Abe Dashiell]] <sup>'''([[User_talk:Adashiel|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Adashiel|c]])'''</sup> 18:27, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
:Beeing controversial is the streng of wikipedia. Protecting this article means loosing credibility. The end of wikipedia. And donations. [[User:Wikipoet|Wikipoet]] 18:34, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
::Or not. Wikipedia is neutral and neutral doesn't equal controversial. [[User:Linuxbeak|Linuxbeak]] (drop me a [[User_talk:Linuxbeak|line]]) 18:36, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
::If you're referring to the reversions of your changes, semi-protection isn't even an issue. You made them ''after'' it was re-established. Your changes were removed because they violated our [[WP:NPOV|neutral point of view]] policy, which has survived quite a few donor drives. –[[User:Adashiel|Abe Dashiell]] <sup>'''([[User_talk:Adashiel|t]]/[[Special:Contributions/Adashiel|c]])'''</sup> 18:44, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
::: No I did not mean that because of removing of my changes. I do not care. It is just a danger for the profound mechanism of wikipedia. Wikipedia is the largest online cultural event because it is open and self organized. Like a big brain. Deleting a contribution for NPOV reason is part of this self organisation and I accept this with no problems. Discussions are also part of this big brain. But it is my opinion that protecting a controversial article like Bush, will put a censorship light on wikipedia. Imagine that this will be put on the newspaper: “Wikipedia protect contributions on Bush article: Alert! Censorship”. What will happen? Vandalism are something that wikipedia has to live with. Better vandals than a smell of censorship. Vandal you can correct. Smells not. Be careful with protecting this article. Regards, [[User:Wikipoet|Wikipoet]] 18:55, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
::::Except we've gotten in a lot more trouble for having bad information in our articles than for protecting pages (which happens quite a bit). Tis better to be accurate than just allow anything in the articles. --[[User:Lord Voldemort|<font color="purple">LV</font>]] <sup><font color="#3D9140">[[User talk:Lord Voldemort|(Dark Mark)]]</font></sup> 19:02, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
:::::Clear, finding the equilibrium between open content and accuracy is a hard job, but it is a ‘noble cause’ to serve the largest encyclopaedia ever written. [[User:Wikipoet|Wikipoet]] 19:07, 29 December 2005 (UTC)
 
==Date Error/Confusion in 2004 Election discussion==
The existing page reads:
 
:In the 2004 election, Bush carried 31 of 50 states for 286 Electoral College votes. [...] This was the first time since 1988 that a President received a popular majority.
 
That should either read "first time since 1984", or more likely "since 1988 that a winning Presidential candidate received". Not to be pedantic, but the sentence as is is at the least confusing ,and at first sight wrong -- as Bush the elder was not yet president when he was elected.
 
[[User:64.2.235.137|64.2.235.137]] 21:35, 30 December 2005 (UTC)Strider
 
==Free Republic "Action Alert"==
FWIW, this article, along with a few others, is the subject of a Free Republic "Action Alert". [http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1549132/posts] [[User:Mindspillage|Mindspillage]] [[User talk:Mindspillage|(spill yours?)]] 03:20, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
*Oh goodie, I can't wait. Maybe attempting to edit this article will prove to them that all Wiki admins aren't godless communists. [[User:Android79|<span style="color: green">android</span>]][[User talk:Android79|<span style="color: purple">79</span>]] 03:23, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 
::My favorite quote from that page: "There is little doubt that Lefty academic types have way more time to continually screw around with the editing, than a bunch of conservatives with real jobs."
::My second favorite quote is"We must fight our cyber/information warfare for our purpose. This is a war fought at a civilian level challenging those who are trying to bend history. There are children that may view these and be brainwashed by it. We have to protect our children from fabricated history."
::My third favorite is someone saying "Hopefully, FreeRepublic will not be blamed for [the original poster's] obsessive fixation with Wikipedia."
::[[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 06:48, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
As funny as that first quote may be, there's a bit of truth to it. Who's got the most free time to <s>waste on</s> contribute to Wikipedia? College students. What political tendencies do college students have, as a whole? Fill in the blank. <tt>:-)</tt> (The second quote is just scary.) [[User:Android79|<span style="color: green">android</span>]][[User talk:Android79|<span style="color: purple">79</span>]] 06:57, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 
"What political tendencies do college students have, as a whole?"
"Legalize it"?
--[[User:8bitJake|8bitJake]] 07:02, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 
This is interesting, but not unexpected. They're not the first to try and organize an attack, and they won't be the last. Let them fight their windmills: they too will fail. &ndash; [[User:ClockworkSoul|Clockwork]][[User_talk:ClockworkSoul|<b>Soul</b>]] 16:09, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 
:I have to add that that third quote made my day. :) [[User:Matt Yeager|Matt Yeager]] 20:30, 1 January 2006 (UTC)
 
:As a college student myself, 8bitJake, I'd say I have a pretty extensive set of beliefs such as universal health care, electoral reform, and gay marriage, putting me somewhere towards left of center. It is somewhat offending to characterize the sum total of people who are in my situation as simply caring about legalizing marijuana. --[[User:Kizzle|kizzle]] 12:09, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
::As a former college student, I have to say you're overreacting a bit. <tt>;-)</tt> [[User:Android79|<span style="color: green">android</span>]][[User talk:Android79|<span style="color: purple">79</span>]] 13:57, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
:::former college student < college student. I win, nya nya! ;) Anyways, back to defending my maturity level... --[[User:Kizzle|kizzle]] 23:48, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 
==un "lock" this article==
this "article" frozen in its current form , is an afront to reality and a smash up far left propaganda job, will members of the left never cease to protect such "articles" from public scuritny? so much for the "encyclopedia anyone can edit" <img src="http://www.homecomputer.de/icons/ussr-flag.jpg">, your "encylocpedia"'s new mascot
 
:: please propose changes to the article in this talk page. [[User:Kirils|Kirils]] 08:19, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
:::Attacking new users and valuble contributers? no wonder people want to sue you guys
 
::::You guys wouldn't be Freepers, by any chance, would you? [[User:Android79|<span style="color: green">android</span>]][[User talk:Android79|<span style="color: purple">79</span>]] 08:36, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 
===the encylcopedia <I>ANYone</i> can edit??===
Really? thjen why can't I edit this page?
::Because you're still too wet behind the ears. Because this article was getting vandalized at the rate of almost once every few minutes, the article requires more hurdles to jump before you can edit it. Register for an account, make a few edits, then come back to this article. Also please sign your comments by typing four tildes in a row <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>. &middot; [[User:Katefan0|'''Katefan0''']]<sup>[[User talk:Katefan0|(scribble)]]</sup>/<small>[[User:Katefan0/Poll|mrp]]</small> 08:33, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
:::I <B>am</b> a registered account, as valid as any other "editor" like yourself, this "semi locking" thing is a scam, you keep editing privillages a secret for your "elite" friends 08:37, 31 December 2005 (UTC)08:37, 31 December 2005 (UTC)[[User:Namr.|Namr.]] 08:37, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
::::Sorry you feel that way. All you have to do is contribute to a few other articles, then you're free to edit this one. It's regrettable, but necessary to prevent the extremely persistent and damaging vandalism that was happening to this article on an almost minute-to-minute basis. &middot; [[User:Katefan0|'''Katefan0''']]<sup>[[User talk:Katefan0|(scribble)]]</sup>/<small>[[User:Katefan0/Poll|mrp]]</small> 08:39, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
:::You're correct, you are as valid as everyone else. As are the anonymous IPs. It's somewhat similar to the feature for enforcing username changes. Your IP gets banned along with your username- its a side effect of enforcing a name change that administrators can't stop. Regrettably, you can't edit this article. I'm sure you will be able to soon. :-) [[User:Deskana|Deskana]] <font size="1">[[User_Talk:Deskana|(talk page)]]</font> 08:46, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 
* This discussion should be moved to [[Wikipedia_talk:Semi-protection_policy|the talk page for the policy]] in question. -- [[User:Kirils|Kirils]] 08:52, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 
Where have the pictures and articles gone?? Has someone vandalised this article again? --[[User:Sunfazer|Sunfazer]] 22:16, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 
=== Free Republic Wages War on Wikipedia :O ===
*Don't you think George is looking tired?
**This is highly irrelevant to this section and, unless you are referring to a specific image of Bush in the article, an innapropriate topic in it's own right as talk pages are specifically not for general discussion of article subject (see [[WP:TP#Usage]]). [[User:WAvegetarian|WAvegetarian]] [[User talk:WAvegetarian|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] <small>[[Special:Emailuser/WAvegetarian|(email)]]</small> [[Special:Contributions/WAvegetarian| <sup>(contribs)</sup>]] 12:13, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
*On 31 December 2005, a ''Free Republic Action Alert'' was distributed calling for a coordinated attack against several Wikipedia articles ([[George W. Bush]], [[Abortion]], and [[Kwanzaa]]) specifically calling for far-right POV vandalism with tips on how to evade detection. [http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1549132/posts] — [[User:HopeSeekr of xMule|HopeSeekr of xMule]] ([[User talk:HopeSeekr of xMule|Talk]]) 20:42, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 
Interesting accusation... although the forum section devolved into what you said, the original call might as well have been from the Wikipedia editors. Particularly claiming that they are "specifically calling for far-right POV vandalism" is a bit of a reach. If you had bothered to read what they said, you would realize that they believe those three articles contain serious POV, and proceeded to have an argument about it. I have to admit, I find your "get ready, here come the crazies!" attitude a bit disturbing... and will do very little except convince people that NPOV does not, in fact, exist on these pages. (while not denying that MANY of the edits on this particular page can easily be described as "crazy")
--[[User:Kiruwa|Kiruwa]] 10:58, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 
Aren't new topics supposed to be on the ''bottom'' of the page? --[[User:Aaron|Aaron]] 23:06, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
:Moved to proper place, although it isn't a new topic, look up just a couple sections. [[User:WAvegetarian|WAvegetarian]] [[User talk:WAvegetarian|<sup>(talk)</sup>]] <small>[[Special:Emailuser/WAvegetarian|(email)]]</small> [[Special:Contributions/WAvegetarian| <sup>(contribs)</sup>]] 12:13, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 
== Image and infobox ==
 
Why is the photograph of El Presidente removed, and why is his infobox incomplete? For such a high-profile page, it's embarrassing that we're missing such things. — '''[[User:Philwelch|Phil]]''' ''[[User_talk:Philwelch|Welch]]'' <small>[[User:Katefan0/Poll|Katefan's ridiculous poll]]</small> 22:49, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
*His infobox is incomplete because [[User:Netoholic]] was screwing around with the presidents template. I've reverted his alterations and it works now. [[User:Firebug|Firebug]] 23:08, 31 December 2005 (UTC)
 
==Preferred Article Size==
I'm going to spend a few hours later today in an attempt to cut this article down to the recommended article size without losing any information. I'm going to create (more) subpages and the like and leave only a sentance or two about most subcategories. In accordance with [[WP:BOLD]], don't be shocked when you see it - '''''I'm not going to delete one word'''''.--[[User:CastAStone|CastAStone]] 02:27, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 
:You have my support. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 03:08, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 
:I would appriciate it if someone else - preferably someone apolitical - would cut down the election 2000 information to be of approximately the same length as the election 2004 info. --[[User:CastAStone|CastAStone]] 04:08, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 
::Frankly? I appreciate the sentiment, but I don't think that that's possible. Just as an article on World War II is necessarily going to be longer than one on the Spanish-American War, some elections merit longer articles than others. Now, I'll be the first to say that what is in there now is excessive by many degrees. But there is no way that an election that followed the sequence of events that we had in 2000 is going to be compacted to the same length as 2004. It's just not realistic. [[User:Unschool|Unschool]] 04:27, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 
:::What I meant was just within the Bush article should be cut because there is already a link to the 2000 election main article. I can give it a shot but I'm, quite frankly, afraid of a lashing.--[[User:CastAStone|CastAStone]] 04:55, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
:::: Thanks for the clarification. And, incidentally, I share your trepidation. [[User:Unschool|Unschool]] 07:54, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
:::: By the way, what you ''are'' doing is great. Wish I had the time for such major projects. [[User:Unschool|Unschool]] 07:55, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 
:I've knocked 28kb off so far, without deleting anything. --[[User:CastAStone|CastAStone]] 04:55, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 
::Great job! I've been a strong advocate of [[Wikipedia:Summary style|Summary style]] for some time as well. --[[User:Maveric149|mav]] 05:59, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 
How about I shorten it, then revert myself and post the diff here so it can be discussed? [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 06:34, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
:[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=George_W._Bush&diff=33569324&oldid=33559494 Here's my version]. Let me know what you think. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 06:51, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
::I give it a huge thumbs up. --[[User:CastAStone|CastAStone]] 07:08, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Cool. I'll do it later if no one objects. Just to clarify an edit summary, , when I deleted "In July of 2002, Bush cut off U.S. funding to the [[United Nations Population Fund]] (UNFPA). Bush claimed that the UNFPA supported forced [[abortions]] and [[sterilizations]] in the [[People's Republic of China]]" I said I'd put it in another section. I couldn't find a place to put it, but it's in the foreign policy section. Cheers, [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 07:45, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 
:down from 105 to 65, i'll keep plugging away, thanks for the help Dave.--[[User:CastAStone|CastAStone]] 09:00, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 
:59kb, its getting harder, i'll take suggestions. --[[User:CastAStone|CastAStone]] 20:32, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 
==Vandalism==
Unprotect it please, the guy isn't in the news now! --[[User:Brian Daniels|Brian Daniels]] 12:47, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 
Protecting an article is in my opinion in a sense stiffling freedom of speech. If something is put on an artice about any person that another person disagrees with, ERASE it. Don't limit us from expanding an article! For shame!
 
God bless, be with and guide President and Mrs. Bush
God bless our troops who are fighting regardless of difference in opinions regarding the war.
GOD BLESS AMERICA, AND NO PLACE ELSE!!!
 
RE:Congrats, I'm sure Bush would be proud of you for sticking up for him and our right to learn about his failures.
 
Question: What exactly was the Vandalism that took place?
 
==Anon comment==
Stating when his term will expire in its own sentence in the introduction of this article appears pointless and biased. Keep it even, Centrism - Centrism people. --anon
 
:I'm a Bush lover but I added the information because I don't like articles with ticking time bombs inside them that will render them out of date when they are overtaken by events (such as the election of the Giuliani/Rice ticket in 2008). [[User:Endomion|Endomion]] 22:41, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 
:I don't see this as a bias at all. It's not at all uncommon for encyclopedia and almanac entries about serving politicans to list the scheduled end of their terms right up front. In fact, I'm surprised this isn't part of the [[WP:MOS]]. --[[User:Aaron|Aaron]] 23:55, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
 
::Only if you mean Jerry Rice. --[[User:Kizzle|kizzle]] 00:29, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 
*so, it's POV to imply that he's subject to a term limit? ''my kingdom for a rolly eyed emoticon''--[[User:64.12.116.9|64.12.116.9]] 03:32, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 
== Article deemphasis ==
 
I see that there were huge changes made to this article and a tremendous amount of information was almost unilaterally moved elsewhere and put in daughter articles. Shouldn't more discussion have occurred during this as I see about 3 or 4 editors took the time to chime in. Since this is a bio page, why are bio items such as his professional life prior to becoming President still in here, when we already had pages that had much of his Presidency elsewhere? Now, to be frank, the article details points that are less biographical and more peripheral to him.--[[User:MONGO|MONGO]] 20:46, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
: I think [[User:CastAStone|CastAStone]] did a good job of explaining himself above, and, as the article had been tagged for excessive length for some time, what he is doing is appropriate. [[User:Unschool|Unschool]] 21:12, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
::The artricle is more a series of links than an article. Much of importance has been deemphasized by placing things of material value elsewhere, off the main page. I have no problem with shortening the article or putting less important issues in daughter articles, I do have a problem with removing items that should be here to other articles where it will be less likely to be linked to. Many of these daughter articles end up rarely being edited so new information supporting or refutting the info there is never edited in. I think it is reasonable to assume that an article of this person, and of this position is going to end up naturally being one of the longest articles in Wikipedia.--[[User:MONGO|MONGO]] 21:40, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
:::I do not disagree with your concerns about daughter articles, I am trying to integrate the information lazily put into the main article into the appropriate daughter articles as a part of this project. The article, even as is at 59kb, is barely loadable or editable over a phone modem, a slow computer, or when wikipedia is slow (which is seemingly 60% of the time). This is I imagine the most viewed article on Wikipedia but the idea is that the main article for any topic MUST be a micropedia article with links to the information that would be included in the macropedia version. See [[Wikipedia:Summary_style]]. I have not finished cutting out information yet, so the article may seem lopsided right now, i'm getting to foreign policy and another user (see above discussion) is workin on the election 200 information. Every section needed to be cut down to make it of appropriate size, remember that it was not too long ago that pages cut off automatically at 32kb, I'm not delusional and i know it will never be that short, but it was almost 4 times the recommended legnth.--[[User:CastAStone|CastAStone]] 21:55, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
::::Several users have said that they support the changes. If you think specific important things are missing, you can add them back, but I think we should all be able to agree that 104 Kb or whatever it was is too much. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 23:49, 2 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::The article is long, naturally. He is the current President of the U.S. and there has been a lot of controversy in his prresidency. Most featured articles are the size of this one now, and most of them cover areas that are in no way nearly as diverse as this one. I am fully aware of article size and am fully familiar with [[Wikipedia:Summary_style]] but encourage you to be patient with your changes. I have never seen either of you do much editing here in this article until the last couple of days, so just remember that the article you are editing has been the work of hundreds of other editors, many of whom may still be on vacation, so I would prefer you not make any more radical changes until some others have had a chance to chime in. Three or four editos in agreement with these changes does not a concensus make, especially in this article.--[[User:MONGO|MONGO]] 00:44, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
::::::that's fine, I'll wait a few days to see what transpires.--[[User:CastAStone|CastAStone]] 01:04, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::::That sounds reasonable. CastAStone, you may want to write up your reasoning in case other editors aren't as understanding as MONGO. MONGO, I'm impressed with your tone and ability to assume good faith. Keep it up! :-) [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 01:33, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 
:I wrote [[Wikipedia:Summary style|Summary style]] and think that the article at its current size (~45KB of readable prose) is about right, if not a wee bit smaller than it should be. Then again, we have to leave room for the rest of his life. :) --[[User:Maveric149|mav]] 05:36, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
::I have cable modem but even so this page was always one of the slowest to load, so I can understand the concerns if anyone is on dial up. In all liklihood, there probably won't be too many editors that will be worried about splitting this article up and I do see that nothing was lost. I suppose I am playing more of a devil's advocate in this case. I didn't revert any changes but just wanted to toss in my 2 cents worth, for what it's worth.--[[User:MONGO|MONGO]] 06:03, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
:::We're just going to have to be very careful in what we leave as a summary. --[[User:Kizzle|kizzle]] 06:10, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
::::You stated in one sentence what I tried to do in four paragraphs. This article has oftentimes been one of the biggest battlegrounds in Wikipedia, so it's going to hard to make a comment and not allow the quid pro quo countercomment to also be there.--[[User:MONGO|MONGO]] 06:22, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 
== The "See also" section ==
 
Do we need the long "See also" section? It's mostly just repeating links to daughter articles already pointed to in various sections in the main article. I think the shortening of this article has been very well done, but the article now has proportionally too many lists and tables for my taste at the end. Any objections against removing the "See also" section, or at least all the links already mentioned further up? [[User:Shanes|Shanes]] 01:03, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
:Support, but don't take out ''too'' much. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 01:31, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
::You may want to wait a few days, though, per MONGO's request in the section above. [[User:harry491|Dave]] [[User_talk:harry491|(talk)]] 01:34, 3 January 2006 (UTC)
 
== Recent deletions ==
 
I don't like the way this article reads now. Parts of it seem dry and uninformative. I especially don't appreciate that it was shortened during a time when only registered users can contribute. That seems sneaky. [[User:GilliamJF|Gilliamjf]] 02:54, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
:It was four times the acceptable legnth. see above discussion, and don't make new talk sections without reading the old discussions first. All of the information that was previously there is still linked to in subarticles. --[[User:CastAStone|CastAStone]] 21:28, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 
== W, Dubya nicknames ==
 
I added a rather cumbersome sentence about Bush's common nickname, "W" (now frequently rendered as "Dubya"), which I was surprised to see missing from this substantial article. However, I couldn't readily find a reliable source for this information. Does anyone have such a source? Also, I added the line to the short intro paragraph about his family because (A) the name started with them, I believe, so it was a semi-decent segue; (B) it should be somewhere in the intro as an alternate name per Wikipedia article title standards; and (C) it didn't seem significant enough to make a section out of it, and didn't seem to fit into the existing ones. But I'm not too crazy about its wording or position myself. Feel free to rework it to suit both [[Wikipedia:verifiability|verifiability]] and better prose. Thanks. ~ [[User:Jeffq|Jeff Q]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Jeffq|(talk)]] 14:03, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 
: Incidentally, I didn't find any mention on the White House website except in a jesting [http://www.whitehouse.gov/kids/spotty/ biography of Spot], the First Dog. I've got several books on reserve at the library to check this out, if someone doesn't beat me to it. ~ [[User:Jeffq|Jeff Q]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Jeffq|(talk)]] 14:18, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 
There's a picture in the article of the [[Daily Mirror]] calling Bush "Dubya". The Mirror is a fairly respectable paper in the UK so I'd say that them using the name "Dubya" on their ''headline'' in source enough for inclusion about that nickname. I doubt they'd mention it on the White House website. [[User:Deskana|Deskana]] <font size="1">[[User_Talk:Deskana|(talk page)]]</font> 20:43, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 
: Thanks for the tip, but we need more. ''The Daily Mirror'' is reputable, but a headline doesn't really provide any origin or explanation for the nickname. (After all, they could have just made it up themselves, as the press occasionally does.) I was disappointed about the absence from the White House website, because it wasn't initially used meanly. (And Spot calls him "Dubya", eh?) ~ [[User:Jeffq|Jeff Q]]&nbsp;[[User talk:Jeffq|(talk)]] 21:45, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 
== Article Bias ==
 
The article about George Bush is extremely biased. For example, the part taling about AIDS only points out the positive stances of his government. Although the US contributes largely to this cause, as the world's richest nation, it has a duty to do so; in fact it gives much LESS than it should, and has been critized for its poverty stances, and overall international aid. A little more should be added about the Patriot Act and the power gained by his government after 9/11.
:That is your opinion. --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] 20:38, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
::Something definitely ought to be added regarding the wire-tapping allegations and whatnot that have been swirling for the past couple of months. Not necessarily the issue of whether or not it constitutes a violation of civil rights or the Bill of Rights, just the specifics of what's being done in the name of curbing 'terror.' [[User:12.37.144.130|12.37.144.130]] 16:27, 6 January 2006 (UTC)Castle
 
== Margin of Victory in 2004 ==
 
The following passage (from the election 2004 section) is correct but incomplete and a bit misleading, since it only refers to the sitting Presidents who have won re-election and not to the sitting Presidents who have lost. A slight modification is in order. . .
 
"Bush's victory margin, in terms of absolute number of popular votes, was the smallest of any sitting president since Harry S. Truman in 1948. Also, Bush's win was, percentage-wise, the closest popular margin ever for a sitting president." [[User:Joey1898|Joey1898]] 23:06, 4 January 2006 (UTC)
 
Can an editor please add a paragraph somewhere in this article about claims that the 2004 election was rigged. And no it is not a "lame conspiracy theory," there is real evidence (exit poll-vote count discrepancies etc.).
 
:No lame conspiracy theories please. --[[User:Golbez|Golbez]] 03:06, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
:that information is in the macroarticles linked to in the election 2004 section of the article. This article is biographical, and there is no evidence that ''Bush'' himself led this "rigging", as even if Karl Rove ''did'' rig the election, the man is way too smart to let Bush catch wind of it - the less the president knows, the better - plausable deniability. If Bush had no idea, Bush fires Rove, problem goes away. If Bush knows, problem never goes away. ergo, Rove or any RNC flunkie, if he did "rig" the election, would not let Bush in on it, hence it does not belong in the biography of Bush. But anyone who wants to read more about election 2004 could click that link and be presented with the theory. Anyways, it would take thousands of people to rig a presidential election to the tune of a 3% difference - do you really think all those people could really keep quiet? --[[User:CastAStone|CastAStone]] 03:25, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 
Yeah that does make sense, it wasn't as if Bush was sneaking around the voting stations in ohio cackling to himself. As for the election. There are two possibilities A) it was rigged b) with a probability of roughly 1/100 000 the exit polls predictions were 8 million votes off. That and problems that international observers encountered with state laws on election observation. I'm not saying it was rigged, I'm saying its suspicious. If only there had been a proper inquiry. But of course Kerry had to pull out early because of "sour grapes".
 
==Bush's stance on torture==
I feel as though Bush's stance on torture should be worked into this article. Thoughts? [[User:Sludge|Sludge]] 07:43, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
*Agree - The whitehouse press statement to veto a bill banning torture needs to be included.--'''[[User:God_of_War|God of]][[User Talk:God_of_War| War]]''' 09:45, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
 
== Important people in Bush's life and career ==
 
Is that paragraph really needed? I mean ''George W. Bush's family and advisors are considered important to him in his life and career.'' and ''His wife Laura and his mother Barbara Bush are also considered important to his life.'' just sounds silly. The following can be inserted somewhere else in the article: ''His most trusted advisors have included many women, such as Condoleezza Rice, Karen Hughes, and Harriet Miers. Karl Rove has played perhaps the greatest influence on Bush's life and career.'' [[User:MartinHagberg|MartinHagberg]] 14:02, 5 January 2006 (UTC)
:His mother, father and wife have played important roles in his life? Imagine that! You mean he's a human being like the rest of us? Do we really need this information to understand the man?[[User:12.37.144.130|12.37.144.130]] 16:29, 6 January 2006 (UTC)Castle
 
::Exactly, though this is important: ''His most trusted advisors have included many women, such as Condoleezza Rice, Karen Hughes, and Harriet Miers. Karl Rove has played perhaps the greatest influence on Bush's life and career.'' [[User:MartinHagberg|MartinHagberg]] 18:06, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 
== punctuation in Wikipedia ==
 
Apeitheo, I know your edits were probably correct by standard English, but the style on Wikipedia is to put punctuation after quotation marks when the punctuation isn't part of the quote. This guideline is at [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style#Quotation_marks]]. I think you were definitely right about the quotes in the "he changed my life" sentence, though, so I kept those. --[[User:Amcbride|Allen]] 06:15, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
 
== Bush's favorite philosopher before 1985? ==
 
Davidpatrick, why does it matter that we don't know Bush's favorite philosopher before 1985? --[[User:Amcbride|Allen]] 06:56, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
:I don't see why his favourite philosopher before 1985 is encyclopedic. That should be something under trivia or somewhere else. --[[User:Terenceong1992|Terence Ong]] <sup>[[User talk:Terenceong1992|Talk]]</sup> 07:32, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
::If we knew who it was, it might be encyclopedic. That we don't know who it was isn't. If we knew for sure that he didn't have one, that might be encyclopedic. Regards, [[User:BenAveling|Ben Aveling]] 07:37, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
:::Regarding philosophers, when did Christ become one? In fact, for a substancial part of the populous that maintains that the Bible is mythology rather than history, what evidence is there that Christ even existed outside the realms of fiction or fantasy? By this logic, I guess Santa Claus is my favorite philosopher. He taught me that it's more important to give than to receive and he loves and helps children. Regardless, why is this information relevent?[[User:12.37.144.130|12.37.144.130]] 16:32, 6 January 2006 (UTC)Castle
::::[[Jesus]], no matter how you look at it, can be considered a philosopher (even if you disregard the status of God thing). Secondly, [[John_Dominic_Crossan|many]] [[Paula_Fredriksen|notable]] [[E.P._Sanders|critical]] [[Geza_Vermes|historians]] agree that Jesus, no matter who he was, existed. Third, seeing that [[Santa Claus]] existed in reality as [[St. Nicholas]], your logic would be slightly skewed. [[User:Linuxbeak|Linuxbeak]] (drop me a [[User_talk:Linuxbeak|line]]) 16:38, 6 January 2006 (UTC)
:::::'''Yay!''' 4 semi-notable christian biblical scholars agree Jesus existed! How unexpected, now wikipedia can be justified in treating christian mythology as fact, after all, four whole [[Jews for Jesus]] agree with the 'historical' jesus thing, it '''must''' be real!--[[User:205.188.116.10|205.188.116.10]] 06:46, 7 January 2006 (UTC)
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