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'''Patrick de Dunbar, 7th Earl of Dunbar''' (before [[1223]] - [[1289]]) was lord of the feudal barony of [[Dunbar]] and its castle, which dominated [[East Lothian]], and the most important military personage in the [[Scottish Borders]].
{{not a forum|possible characters, items, levels or other ideas about ''Super Smash Bros. Brawl''}}
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==Background==
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*[[Talk:Super Smash Bros. Brawl/archive1|Archive 1 (October 2005 → E³)]]
*[[Talk:Super Smash Bros. Brawl/Archive 2|Archive 2 (24th May → 31st May 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Super Smash Bros. Brawl/Archive 3|Archive 3 (31st May → 6th June 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Super Smash Bros. Brawl/Archive 4|Archive 4 {6th June → 9 July)]]
*[[Talk:Super Smash Bros. Brawl/Archive 5|Archive 5 {9th July → 28th August]]
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Said to be aged 35 in 1248, he was the son of [[Patrick II, Earl of Dunbar]], who was son of [[Patrick I, Earl of Dunbar]], who was son of [[Waltheof, Earl of Dunbar]], who was descendant in male line of [[Gospatric, Earl of Northumbria]]. His successors controlled the marches, but the title ''Earl of March'' was only assumed by [[Patrick IV, Earl of March]].
== Focus on alternative Smash articles ==
==Career==
With the last archive done, the talk page was left blank, so I'll reiterate for the record what I said several days ago. Since the page itself has practically run out of content to improve, and it still doesn't look like there'll be new official details about the game for a while longer, it might be a good idea to direct our editing focus to the Smash Bros sections of all the character articles in the meantime. Articles like [[Marth (Fire Emblem)]], [[Roy (Fire Emblem)]], [[Mr. Game & Watch]], [[Falco Lombardi]], and [[Pichu]], among others, might benefit from that. That way, all those articles will be fully ready for proper update when Brawl is released. New editors and anonymous IP addresses might want to edit these other articles for these reasons. Thanks for reading. [[User:Erik the Appreciator|Erik Jensen]] <b><sup>[[User talk:Erik the Appreciator|(I appreciate talk!)]]</sup></b> 00:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
Patrick, 7th Earl of Dunbar, did homage for his lands in England to King [[Henry III of England|Henry III]] in 1249. The earl was part of the English faction who opposed the Comyns and in 1255 he and other procured the dismissal of the Comyns and their faction from power. The same year he was nominated Regent and Guardian of the King and Queen. In 1258 the Comyn's faction prevailed, and Earl Patrick was excluded from the government.
:That's really a smart idea, since there's really not alot we can do to improve this page until more major info comes up... and that doesn't look like it's happening anytime soon. We should also decide things about how the article will be structured now, so we don't have to worry later when the game is out. [[User:Jjam189|Jjam189]] 01:28, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
In [[1263]] he founded a monastery for the [[Carmelite]]s or White Friars in Dunbar; and led the left division of the Scottish army at the [[battle of Largs]] the same year. In [[1266]] when [[Magnus of Norway]] ceded the [[Isle of Man]] and the [[Hebrides]] to King [[Alexander III of Scotland]], the Earl of Dunbar's seal appears on the treaty, signed in [[Norway]] in 1266.
==Question about party status?==
I asked a similar question on the Wii board but I believe I sjould ask here as well. Smash Bros Brawl was moved from the second party section to the first party section and hidden text that apppears when editing says that according Nintnedo this game is first party. I was wondering if anyone here has heard that and if so knows where this was stated? --[[User:Edgelord|Edgelord]] 02:41, 29 August 2006 (UTC)
:The developer is technically unknown, but it is likely second party considering the past two have been. Then again, the last two were developed by HAL, where as this one isn't. --[[User:75.12.44.153|75.12.44.153]] 04:42, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
SSBB is a second party game as stated on [[[http://smashbros.com] smashbros.com]]. Masahiro Sakurai, the director of the game, left Nintendo to start Sora, and since he had such a big part in the previous incarnations, Nintendo have contracted his company to make ''Brawl''. Nintendo will be working closely with Sora, so the game will be second party instead of third party. --[[User:Geekrecon|Geekrecon]] 06:14, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
: He left HAL, not Nintendo.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 15:58, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
::Nintendo is developing it at a new Tokyo studio which is being created around Sakurai. "It turned out that Nintendo would build a new team around me in Tokyo. In other words, we would create a new studio." [http://www.smashbros.com/en/story/page_3.html]--[[User:The Viper|The Viper]] 22:14, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
:::If further proof is required, here you go. [http://cube.ign.com/articles/673/673312p1.html], [http://wii.ign.com/objects/748/748545.html], [http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/supersmashbros/news.html?sid=6140706], [http://videogames.yahoo.com/newsarticle?eid=462446&page=0], [http://wii.advancedmn.com/game.php?gameid=1468], [http://games.ign.com/objects/025/025047.html], [http://wii.qj.net/Super-Mario-Galaxy-Team-Announced/pg/49/aid/38177] and right here at Wiki and it's not an edit of mine either, [[HAL_Laboratory]].--[[User:The Viper|The Viper]] 02:00, 1 September 2006 (UTC)
::::I haven't thought HAL was making it since I read the story on the Smash Dojo website. Why would Sakuri start his own company and then work for Nintendo? I'm pretty certain it's Sora.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 15:26, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::Actually that is highly unlikely. There was a section about this on the last archive and it was reported that Sakurai was given a team to work on the game last October and that they just finished a major project. It was also stated that Sora was formed in september. Based on that timeline Sora can't be making the game. --[[User:My old username|My old username]] 02:02, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::: If Sora founded the month before, it's believable that it hasn't started a project yet. The team he was "given"; their project didn't have to be with Sora. It works, it it makes more sense to me. It's definately not HAL, and Sakuri knew he was going to work on this project since around E3 2005, and, if it wasn't going to be made by Sora, he wouldn't started Sora until he had time to do something with it.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 02:34, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::::Well maybe he wanted to put some projects on the backburner in the meantime. In any case, none of this argument is really going to count towards absolute proof of who the developer is. [[User:Xubelox|Xubelox]] 05:55, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
::::::::Read my post, I proved it multiple times over. Nintendo has created a new dev team around Sakurai at the Nintendo EAD Tokyo studio. They even said the studio itself just finished its first title recently (though they didn't give the title name however Nintendo EAD Tokyo just recently completed Donkey Kong: Jungle Beat). What more do you guys need?--[[User:The Viper|The Viper]] 14:44, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::On the Super Mario Galaxy article it says Nintendo EAD Tokyo is working on that game.Besides, everyone besides the The Viper seems to think that it's unknown. There's not really enough proof either way.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 15:13, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::You obviously didn't read page 3 of Sakurai's article "How This Game Came To Be" of which I've linked to repeatedly. What more proof do you need than from the games creator himself? Here it is again. [http://www.smashbros.com/en/story/page_3.html]--[[User:The Viper|The Viper]] 15:26, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::There could be translation issues there. It's a bit too vague to use as s source (particularly since it's a translated work.) Besides, it dosen't say Nintendo EAD Tokyo there. They are working on Super Mario Galaxy; see either their article or Galaxy's. Could some more people please voice their opinions here, please? [[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 15:46, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::::I know they are working on Galaxy but 50 Nintendo employees are being brought into EAD Tokyo for a new team. Think of how Nintendo Kyoto has 4 teams. Nintendo Tokyo now has 2 teams but the team name itself has yet to be revealed, Sakurai just calls the team, "The Studio". Read it all again. It's not too vague and translation issues are your own speculation. We edit information that is verifiable, correct? There it is from the games maker as well as the 7 other links I provided above.--[[User:The Viper|The Viper]] 17:58, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
I would wait to post anything until someone says SSBB is being developed by ''xxxxx''. --[[User:Myselfalso|myselfalso]] 18:06, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
: ^I agree. The Viper definately hasn't proved tha EAD Tokyo is working on it, altough it IS a possibility. Unless someone states it outright, we can't really know 100%. Until then, there will always be some amount of doubt, however miniscule, that prevents us from being certain.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 03:43, 4 September 2006 (UTC)
::SSBB is a first party title. Nintendo EAD Tokyo has created a new team around former Hal Laboratory employee and Smash Brothers series creator Sakurai [http://www.smashbros.com/en/story/page_3.html]. For more proof, check these, [http://cube.ign.com/articles/673/673312p1.html], [http://wii.ign.com/objects/748/748545.html], [http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/supersmashbros/news.html?sid=6140706], [http://videogames.yahoo.com/newsarticle?eid=462446&page=0], [http://wii.advancedmn.com/game.php?gameid=1468], [http://games.ign.com/objects/025/025047.html], [http://wii.qj.net/Super-Mario-Galaxy-Team-Announced/pg/49/aid/38177] and Wiki as well, [[HAL_Laboratory]] and the Spanish version of the Smash Brothers page http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._Brawl Look at the story from series creator Sakurai, the articles, the game info boxes at IGN and Gamespot, Wiki itself....what else do we need before it is accepted as a first party Wii title?--[[User:The Viper|The Viper]] 00:52, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
:::What else is needed? The majority of people discussing this issue agreeing with you Viper. Even though most people who have posted here have only posted once, they seem to want to keep it as unknown. Also, Viper, IGN, Gamespot, and the like aren't really reliable sources.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 01:18, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
::::I'm in the gaming media industry myself and agree with you regarding IGN and Gamespot, however, it is the fact it's verifiable by them. Their credibility, while lax on my own personal and professional opinion, is not at issue and is more than valid enough for Wiki. They've been a very prominent source on many Wiki pages for quite some time and we can't just choose when to doubt their credibility and when not to without contradictory data stemming from a more credible source.--[[User:The Viper|The Viper]] 01:43, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::Viper, if you want to prove that you are right about this, quot from smashbros.com that says Nintendo, Nintendo EAD, or Hal Laboratories is working on this OR that the new studio is Nintendo owned. I have read though the site and I could not find any info that Sora, Ltd. is Nintendo owned. All I saw was that Nintendo has a team in there HELPING develop Brawl.--[[User:DivineShadow218|DivineShadow218]] 19:54, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
::::::'sigh'
*" It turned out that Nintendo would build a new team around me in Tokyo. In other words, we would create a new studio."[http://www.smashbros.com/en/story/page_3.html]
*"You might find it surprising that Nintendo would open a new office just for the development of one game"[http://cube.ign.com/articles/673/673312p1.html]
*Game Details for Super Smach Brothers Brawl. [http://wii.ign.com/objects/748/748545.html]
*"Nintendo has opened an office in Tokyo dedicated solely to the ongoing development of the Revolution update in the Super Smash Bros. series...Sakurai was persuaded by Nintendo president Satoru Iwata to return to Nintendo"[http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/supersmashbros/news.html?sid=6140706]
*"Nintendo even assembled a special internal development team for Sakurai"[http://videogames.yahoo.com/newsarticle?eid=462446&page=0]
*Super Smash Brothers Brawl Game Stats Developer = EAD[http://wii.advancedmn.com/game.php?gameid=1468]
*Nintendo Wii Development list by Nintendo = Super Smash Brothers Brawl[http://games.ign.com/objects/025/025047.html]
*"The size of this Tokyo team is "much less" than the Super Smash Bros. Brawl team, also located in Tokyo"[http://wii.qj.net/Super-Mario-Galaxy-Team-Announced/pg/49/aid/38177]
*"Hal will not be developing Super Smash Bros. Brawl"[[HAL_Laboratory]]
*If the above is not convincing enough or considered verifiable as in the Wiki TOS, then a grand majority of elverything else posted on Wiki is in jeopardy as well for not being stated 100% directly from the purest of source in crystal clear context with no other chance for miscommunication --[[User:The Viper|The Viper]] 20:25, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::::A lot of those quotes don't quite mean that Brawl is a 1st party game, just that Nintendo is helping Sakuri make it. I think with these sources and more consensus amongst other users ( which I'm suprised you don't have), could justify stating it as 1st party, however, it doesn't justify it being Nintendo EAD Tokyo. The second post in this section does make a good point, the developer is technically unknown.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 21:13, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
Patrick, Earl of Dunbar, was second in the list of thirteen earls who signed the marriage contract of Princess Margaret of Scotland and King [[Eric of Norway]] in [[1281]]. In [[1284]] he attended the parliament at [[Scone]] which declared the Princess Margaret of Norway to be heiress to the Scottish Crown.
::::::::This whole argument has been going around in circles for quite a while. Given the fact at how secretive Nintendo has been in the past, it's obvious that there will not be any ''concrete'' evidence of a developer until the game is near completion. It's only a few months, can't we just leave it as unknown??? -[[User:SaturnYoshi|SaturnYoshi]] 21:21, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::And like I requested. Find me a quote at Smashbros.com thats says Nintendo is solely developing this game and/or ownes the company developing it. Do not add quotes that state that nintendo is Helping with it or Licencing it. To prove you point, I want a quote from Smashbros.com--[[User:DivineShadow218|DivineShadow218]] 21:29, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::The first one is. Did you look at the links?[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 23:38, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::Yes. But it doesnt prove that it is First Party Title.--[[User:DivineShadow218|DivineShadow218]] 23:51, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::::Wait, you meant to tell me with 9 links, and I can bring more, that say Nintendo is creating a new internal development team to develop the title, that somewhow that doesn't prove 1st party status? None of my links say Nintendo is 'helping' develop or 'licensing' it out. They all say Nintendo is the developer. Per [[WP:V]], Nintendo is the developer.--[[User:The Viper|The Viper]] 00:01, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::::They don't actually say "Nintendo is the devolper", do they? Like I said, you are the only one who thinks the devolper should be listed as Nintendo, which I think is odd. You cite numerous sources, including the official game site, that strongly imply it's a 1st party game. Yet, you are alone. Why? The only GOOD (as in most other reasons resemble denial) is that strongly implied just isn't enough here. It works other places, but apparently not here. That being said, why don't we take a vote? I'm relatively new here, so could you set it up, Viper?Between whether it's 1st or 2nd party, please.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 01:41, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::::::Lets just wait untill atleast the 16th becuase then, hopfully, Nintendo will release some info about this game. if not we could wait till TGS and see if they release/update some info about it. so give it about 3 weeks.--[[User:DivineShadow218|DivineShadow218]] 03:15, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
:The Viper, in all those quotes, it does not use the words "Nintendo EAD" (except the links to gaming sites which are not affiliated with Nintendosuch as IGN). If you can find an official source that says, explicitly, "<b>NINTENDO EAD</b> is developing this game", then you are proven to be right. As none of your current sources say that, it cannot be proven. If there was no doubt, then Sakurai would announce the company name on the official web page. But since he hasn't, nor has any other source officially affiliated with Nintendo, it is not verifiable. [[User:199.126.137.209|199.126.137.209]] 23:25, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
::A little deduction is all it takes to show it's EAD however, it does prove at the very least Nintendo. As per Tuesdays idea, I'll set up a poll.
:So you admit you have no source directly stating that? Then your statements can be classified as original research, as they are your personal theories. [[User:199.126.137.209|199.126.137.209]] 05:40, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
::Proving it is Nintendo is not original research. He asked about EAD. Have you looked at any of those links? Any of them? They say Nintendo in all of them and some say EAD.--[[User:The Viper|The Viper]] 18:36, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
==Marriage==
===Developer status vote===
Given the links I and others have provided above, what is the party status of SSBB? Post your answer under the status you believe, '''first''' (meaning Nintendo) or '''unkown'''. After 1 week, votes will be tallied and an action taken.
He married before 1240, Cecily, daughter of John FitzRobert, Lord of [[Warkworth, Northumberland]] (d.1240),<ref> Foster, Joseph, editor, ''The Visitation of Yorkshire 1584/5, & 1612'' by Robert Glover, [[Somerset Herald]], and Henry St.George, [[Norroy King of Arms]], London, 1875:609</ref> <ref> Richardson, Douglas,''Magna Carta Ancestry'', Baltmore, 2005:209</ref> and had five known children:
'''First'''
*--[[User:The Viper|The Viper]] 02:23, 7 September 2006 (UTC)Obviously my vote goes here. My links again for support. [http://www.smashbros.com/en/story/page_3.html], [http://cube.ign.com/articles/673/673312p1.html], [http://wii.ign.com/objects/748/748545.html], [http://www.gamespot.com/wii/action/supersmashbros/news.html?sid=6140706], [http://videogames.yahoo.com/newsarticle?eid=462446&page=0], [http://wii.advancedmn.com/game.php?gameid=1468], [http://games.ign.com/objects/025/025047.html], [http://wii.qj.net/Super-Mario-Galaxy-Team-Announced/pg/49/aid/38177] [[HAL_Laboratory]] and the Spanish version of the Smash Brothers page [http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Super_Smash_Bros._Brawl]--[[User:The Viper|The Viper]] 02:23, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
* [[Patrick IV, Earl of March|Patrick 8th Earl of Dunbar & March, a 'Competitor'<ref> Dunbar, Sir Alexander H., Bt., ''Scottish Kings, a Revised Chronology of Scottish History, 1005 - 1625'', Edinburgh, 1899:87 - 93 and 282</ref> (1242 - 1308), son and heir.
{{start box}}
'''Unknown'''
{{succession box | title=[[Earl of Dunbar]] | before=[[Patrick II, Earl of Dunbar|Patrick II]] | after=[[Patrick IV, Earl of Dunbar|Patrick IV]] | years=[[1248]]-[[1289]]}}
*--My vote goes here. If it does not state in concrete that it is officially Nintendo EAD on any official sources, then anything else is really nothing more than original research, no matter how likely it may appear. [[User:Xubelox|Xubelox]] 05:42, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
{{end box}}
*--Placing my vote here and agreeing with Xubelox's reasoning. --[[User:Sparky the Seventh Chaos|Sparky Lurkdragon]] 06:02, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
*--For the same reasoning given above, I vote unknown. --[[User:SaturnYoshi|SaturnYoshi]] 18:18, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
*--Viper, close but not close enough. Add some good links saying it's not Sora, and I'll change my mind. There are other conditions where I will, obviously, but that's something you could search for. My vote goes here.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 20:30, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
*--My vote, however unimportant, also goes here. I have yet to be convinced that any evidence supporting Nintendo in this affair is concrete. .[[User:Verderben|Verderben]] 7:03, 16 September 2006
==References==
<div class="references-small" style="-moz-column-count:2; column-count:2;">
<references/>
</div>
* Simpson, David, ''The Genealogical and Chronological History of the Stuarts'', Edinburgh, 1713.
* Miller, James, ''The History of Dunbar'', Dunbar, 1830, pps: 19 - 22.
* Burke, Messrs., John and John Bernard, ''The Royal Families of England Scotland and Wales, with their Descendants'', London, 1851, volume 2, page xlvi.
* Burke, Sir Bernard, [[Ulster King of Arms]], ''Burke's Dormant, Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages'', London, 1883, p.606.
* Richardson, Douglas, ''Magna Carta Ancestry'', Baltmore, 2005, p.209.
==External links==
*[http://www.genealogics.org/getperson.php?personID=I00164955&tree=LEO Entry] on genealogics
{{UK-noble-stub}}
'''Discussion'''
</br>I didn't say Nintendo EAD in the vote, I said just Nintendo (even though Nintendo EAD and Nintendo EAD Tokyo are listed in a few of those links).--[[User:The Viper|The Viper]] 16:37,
7 September 2006 (UTC)
</br>I'd like to explain some of my reasoning. Normally, Vipers links would be sufficient, probably more than. However, this is what I think:(This based on the "How this game came to be made section" of Super Smash Bros. Dojo.) Sakuri decided he was going to work on this game sometime during or shortly after E3 2005. He had resigned from HAL Autumn 2003. (This a quote from page 4) The topics that have come up from time to time in column-me going into solitary to write the design document, '''founding my own company, Sora Ltd.,''' moving, and getting sick from overworking were all '''related to my development of the new Smash Bros. game.''' However, the same story suggests the game is being devoleped by Nintendo, resulting in conflict. Conflict=Unknown.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 20:48, 7 September 2006 (UTC)
[[Category:1242 births|Dunbar, Patrick de Dunbar, 7th Earl of]]
== About Pikachu ==
[[Category:1308 deaths|Dunbar, Patrick de Dunbar, 7th Earl of]]
[[Category:Scottish soldiers|Dunbar, Patrick de Dunbar, 7th Earl of]]
The article has switched from saying Pikachu is the unofficial mascot of pokemon to the official mascot. I know his popularity is exploited in
[[Category:Earls in the Peerage of Scotland|Dunbar, Patrick de Dunbar, 7th Earl of]]
most of the spin-off Pokemon games, but I don't recall him every being an official mascot.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 01:15, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
:Pikachu isn't the offical mascot of Pokemon; simply the most well-known/popular. [[User:Jjam189|Jjam189]] 15:43, 30 August 2006 (UTC)
::I know, but I thought it was going to result in a debate. I tried to pre-empt it by asking for a source.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 15:57, 31 August 2006 (UTC)
:::About the "every Pokémon game" line - This has been changed because, while minor, there were several [[Pokémon mini]] and [[e-Reader]] Pokémon games that did not include Pikachu in them. [[User:70.106.204.245|70.106.204.245]] 15:11, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
:::: Oh, I should have thought of those.[[User:Tuesday 42|Tuesday42]] 15:13, 2 September 2006 (UTC)
==Removing original research==
Maybe for the sake of making this article look nicer and a justification for removing the tags, could we try to weed out the original research in the stages and abilities section? So what sentences in those sections could be considered original research? Personally, I think the whole Fire Emblem castle speculation bit should be thrown out.
On another subject, maybe we should get rid of that IGN top 100 games thing, as it tends to constantly change. I mean, suddenly it's at number 8, and I don't know how noteworthy a number 8 game is.[[User:Xubelox|Xubelox]] 05:51, 3 September 2006 (UTC)
I took out the original research in the stages section, but I'm certain somebody else would do better with the items & abilities section than I would.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 01:47, 6 September 2006 (UTC)
==STOP Editing This Page==
Wikipedia pages are suppossed to remain consistent. So why this page is being edited, what seems like almost everyday, escapes me. All the information on this page is based on four things: the trailer, the E3 question-and-answer, and the official American and Japanese websites. It's been that way for weeks now. We haven't receieved any new information on this game. SO STOP EDITING THIS PAGE. Unless we get new information, that's from a reliable source, we should not be editing this page. {{unsigned|198.85.228.129}}
:Well, someone's gotta revert the vandals and correct the good-faith but badly made edits. Not to mention fixing existing typos and other houskeeping chores. --[[User:Sparky the Seventh Chaos|Sparky Lurkdragon]] 20:26, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
:Hmm...I see you (198.85.228.129) removed the Japanese and added Zero Suit Samus with her own section...are you Tj terrorible1? Because he was the only person who did that. -[[User:Sukecchi|Sukecchi]] 20:35, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
:::[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Super_Smash_Bros._Brawl&diff=prev&oldid=70602398 Edit by this IP]. [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Super_Smash_Bros._Brawl&diff=prev&oldid=70042759 Edit by Tj terrorible]. Sukecchi, they do look similar, don't they? -- [[User:Steel359|Steel]] 20:54, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
::Whoever you are, don't worry; Requesting that people stop editing this page based on the fact it can't be improved any way for the moment is good enough faith, I am led to believe. That is actually kinda the concept I was trying to raise with my Focus on Alternative Smash Articles comment above; What I figure is that while we're waiting for new info, we should focus on editing articles on Smash fighters themselves so that they'll be in better shape. Here's something you should know: Long ago I suggested that we protect this page for the purpose of keeping the noobs who keep editing this page away from it, but I learned that protection should not be used as a pre-emptive measure for combatting vandalism. So, I'm sorry to say that in spite of our similar opinions, people will keep on doing it because they like to, and we can only continue to revert edits until new info comes out, however long into the future that may be. That's basically what it's all about. [[User:Erik the Appreciator|Erik Jensen]] <b><sup>[[User talk:Erik the Appreciator|(I appreciate talk!)]]</sup></b> 20:45, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
=="..Retracts back.."==
I keep taking off "back" from Pit's bio and someone always puts it back up there. There is no need to say "back". Retract does mean to go back so saying "retracts back" is redundant. {{unsigned|198.85.228.129}}
==Lets not forget to use the right tense people==
I keep seeing "has appeared," Samus "has appeared" in both previous SSB games. Wrong. Samus "appears" in both previois SSBB games. Not (insert veteran character) "was" in both previous SSB games. (Insert) "is" in both previous SSB games. {{unsigned|198.85.228.129}}
==Major Problems:==
It shouldn't be "specifics" but "specificities." It is a word. I din't make it up. Plus, "can transform into an energy whip" is wrong. The gun itself doesn't go through any form of change. It's better to say "can extend a laser energy whip." Now the reason why I'm posting this here is because if I post it in the article, someone is just going to change it. So hopefully by looking at this from my point of view, you will make these edits possible.
Someone keeps deleting "..such as Mario's fireball, which know has a more gaseous appearence." Why? I don't know. But the statement is true and it gives the reader an example of how the moves have been "modified only graphically." Please make this edit possible. {{unsigned|198.85.228.129}}
:And you are...? -[[User:SaturnYoshi|SaturnYoshi]] 22:18, 5 September 2006 (UTC)
::Seems to be IP address 198.85.228.129. Check the history. '''''[[User:Bibliomaniac15|bibliomaniac15]] 23:20, 5 September 2006 (UTC)'''''
== Possible Solid Snake sentence change ==
''The suit he wears is a combination between his sneaking suits in MGS1 and MGS2, though he also sports a haircut similar to his own in [[Metal Gear Solid: The Twin Snakes]] and facial hair resembling that of [[Big Boss|Naked Snake]] from ''[[Metal Gear Solid 3|MGS3]]''.''
This was my idea for a sentence change for the Solid Snake paragraph, mostly in order to avoid ambiguity at the end (It's Solid Snake and not Naked Snake in Twin Snakes). I didn't put it in because I wasn't sure what was originally meant by the author(s); by "haircut" do you mean head hair or facial hair? If the above statement still holds true, consider including it. :) [[User:Yo Bub|Yo Bub]] 01:41, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
:It's nice, but there's a problem: his sneaking suit, haircut and facial hair are all taken directly from MGS2 (I'd know, I play the games religiously, plus I have an uncanny nack for small details). UPDATE EDIT: I changed it in the article. If anyone wants to start a pointless argument, please don't. [[User:Comrade Pajitnov|Comrade Pajitnov]] 20:37, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
::That clears that up :) [[User:Yo Bub|Yo Bub]] 20:58, 8 September 2006 (UTC)
== Fox to feature in the game, according to Nintendo Magazine. ==
According to the latest issue of the Nintendo Magazine, Fox McCloud is supposed to be returning to the Super Smash Bros. lineup. It says "Fox's first appearance on the new Nintendo Wii will be on the new Super Smash Bros. Brawl" game. What do you make of this? [[User:Evilgidgit|Evilgidgit]] 08:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
:Which Nintendo magazine? Nintendo Power? There's more than one Nintendo magazine, you have to be more specific. [[User:Comrade Pajitnov|Comrade Pajitnov]] 14:35, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
::Hmm, interesting. If there's a couple Nintendo magazines in print, by all means it shouldn't be hard for one of us to drive to the magazine store and look through one or the other or both for this Fox bit. Also, I assume these magazines post all their content online like EGM does at 1up.com, so we should look for that bit ourselves as well. I hope it's not a prank; it'd give the article a slight boost in interest appeal. [[User:Erik the Appreciator|Erik Jensen]] <b><sup>[[User talk:Erik the Appreciator|(I appreciate talk!)]]</sup></b> 18:07, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Well, it is Sunday, that may explain why no gaming site has the news. I checked a couple of Smash bros forums, NSider, and even NeoGAF, but none talked about the news. So, we should wait until the magazine is individualized. -- [[User:ReyBrujo|ReyBrujo]] 18:17, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
The new issue of Nintendo Power has an featured artcle on Fox.
Pictures here:
[http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f395/Nimrod1234/starfx.png Nintendo Power Cover]
[http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f395/Nimrod1234/starfox.png inside]--[[User:Nimrod1234|Nimrod1234]] 21:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
:Those deal with the DS game, not SSBB. [[User:Jaxad0127|Jaxad0127]] 20:35, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
::Ya I was just saying thats its a Nintendo Magizin that is talking about star foz might mention him in SSBB--[[User:Nimrod1234|Nimrod1234]] 21:34, 10 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Uhh, no. I have that issue. It talks about Pit. Fox is on the cover for the DS game. [[User:Comrade Pajitnov|Comrade Pajitnov]] 12:53, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
::::In which case it might be in that "other" Nintendo magazine. [[User:Erik the Appreciator|Erik Jensen]] <b><sup>[[User talk:Erik the Appreciator|(I appreciate talk!)]]</sup></b> 15:59, 11 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::Please say this isn't the same Official Nintendo Magazine that said the Wii's stand was the power supply. --[[User:Guess Who|Guess Who]] 05:43, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
::::::I guess that means that this Fox assumption really was a prank, or at least a mistaken bit of news from an apparently untrustworthy source. Phooey. [[User:Erik the Appreciator|Erik Jensen]] <b><sup>[[User talk:Erik the Appreciator|(I appreciate talk!)]]</sup></b> 05:49, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
Note that his quote says NINTENDO Wii.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 22:35, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
:So? Nintendo Gamecube. Nintendo 64. (Super) Nintendo Entertainment System. [[User:Jaxad0127|Jaxad0127]] 23:04, 12 September 2006 (UTC)
::It's called [[Wii]], not Nintendo Wii. Click [[Talk:Wii/Move to Nintendo Wii|here]].
:::Not entirely. It varies with the site, etc. [[User:Jaxad0127|Jaxad0127]] 00:01, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
::::Officially, it is.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 00:04, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::True. But many sites/new services use the fuller name. So you should expect to see it. [[User:Jaxad0127|Jaxad0127]] 00:14, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
::::::Yes, but he said it was a Nintendo magazine, whom I highly doubt would make that mistake.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 00:28, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
:To clarify, the magazine in question is ''[[Official Nintendo Magazine]]'' #8, the (recently revamped) British official magazine. In the ''Retro'' section, it talks about the Super Nintendo game ''[[Starfox]]'' and mentions that Mr. McCloud will be in ''Brawl''. [[User:62.6.139.11|62.6.139.11]] 16:42, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
:I wouldn't consider that an offical source. Altough it is widely assumed that Fox will return in Brawl, it hasn't been confirmed by Nintendo or Smash Bros. Dojo.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 21:29, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
::The official magazine isn't an official source? -- [[User:Steel359|Steel]] 21:33, 13 September 2006 (UTC)
:::It's called official because it's operated by Nintendo of Europe. Nintendo of Europe is not making Brawl, and that information would have appeared elsewhere (the corresponding Nintendo Power issue, for example.)[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]]
::::So, are we going to add it, or debate about it? [[User:Jaxad0127|Jaxad0127]] 03:09, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::Hmm! That's actually a pretty harsh issue. Basically, some European Nintendo magazine posts text stating that Fox will star in Brawl, but we're not certain about how correct this publication is with details about games in development, so it can't be used as a verifiable source to adding Fox in the characters section without undertaking a risk because it's not like we know it came from Sakurai itself. It's a risk because here we're assuming based on past patterns that a character will show up the way we expect. I have a case in point: [[Lucario]], a Pokemon from the upcoming 8th movie. For over a year, we assumed it was a legendary Pokemon because the movie depicts a big relation with the legendary [[Mew]], but recently the upcoming Pokemon games imply that it's not a legendary Pokemon. If nearly-foolproof assumptions like that can be countered so completely, then it'd be a risk to input Fox info into this page based on his appearances in previous Smash games and what one magazine says. We'd have to wait for Sakurai's say-so if we want to verify what we write with sources that aren't dubious. Of course, all this depends on how many times this British Nintendo magazine is in the past; Could it be that they got it from Sakurai himself but neglected to mention it? I think it's your call on this one. [[User:Erik the Appreciator|Erik Jensen]] <b><sup>[[User talk:Erik the Appreciator|(I appreciate talk!)]]</sup></b> 04:44, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
::::::Just scrolling through and noticed this. Yes, it is likely, but as stated, it shouldn't be taken as official until an official source claims this. We'd best wait on it. --[[User:Ultima the Hedgehog|Ultima]] 20:46, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
What do you mean "until an official source"? How much more official do you have to get than Nintendo's own "official" magazine? I think we should create a bio for Fox. We're going to have to make one for him anyway.
*One source is rarely enough, the information needs to be backed up. Besides, there is more harm in adding Fox and being wrong than not adding him. There isnt much info afterall that could be added about the character. [[User:74.137.230.39|74.137.230.39]] 22:42, 14 September 2006 (UTC)
<nowiki>*opens magazine*</nowiki> As I hold it in my hands, reading the feature it says...
::::''As well as his regular starring roles in the StarFox series, Fox McCloud has appeared as a selectable character in both Super Smash Bros. games, with his team-mate Falco turning up for Super Smash Bros. Melee.''
::::''His first Wii appearance will be in Super Smash Bros. Brawl''.
I think it's assuming he'll return, no evidence. Sorry, [[User:HighwayCello|H]]<font color="green">[[User:HighwayCello/Esperanza|ig]]</font>[[User:HighwayCello|hway]] <b><sup><font color="#CCCCFF">[[User talk:HighwayCello|Daytrippers]]</font></sup></b> 16:54, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
==NOA_Andy!?==
Since when was he a confirmed character? [[User:FE411|FE411]]
:It's called vandalism. [[User:Jaxad0127|Jaxad0127]] 05:08, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
::even though it would be hilarious-Melles Lord of Badgers ([[User:69.216.19.159|69.216.19.159]] 23:02, 18 September 2006 (UTC))
== Classic Controller ==
Does anyone know if Brawl will be compatible with the Classic Controller ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wii_Remote#Classic_Controller ), or solely with the GCN Controller? [[User:216.188.249.190|216.188.249.190]] 05:26, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
:NOA has removed the classic controller from their site. And at E3, nintendo comfirmed that Brawl will support the GCN controller. [[User:Jaxad0127|Jaxad0127]] 16:40, 15 September 2006 (UTC)
:speaking of which, why does the article say it was hinted to be fully compatible with GC controllers when it was actually blatently stated? [[User:199.126.137.209|199.126.137.209]] 12:39, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
==Waluigi AND Peach confirmed for Brawl==
In the October issue of the French magazine "Le Jouer" it is announced that Waluigi is in Brawl. He is shown in a screenshot roundhouse-kicking Peach, who is also confirmed. It is on page 13. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:198.85.228.129|198.85.228.129]] ([[User talk:198.85.228.129|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/198.85.228.129|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small>
:Could you please scan the page, or at least provide us with a source link to a place online that confirms it? --[[User:Ultima the Hedgehog|Ultima]] 19:16, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
: This has been "revealed" on GameFAQs too, and with no scan. I don't believe it for the time being. --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 20:09, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
::I doubt this is ture, for starters, this person is an anonmyous IP, secondly, the talk page of this IP is nothing but warnings. -[[User:Sukecchi|Sukecchi]] 20:19, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
::GameFAQs isn't a news site, its FAQs on ''released'' games. [[User:CyberSkull|Dread Lord CyberSkull]] [[User talk:CyberSkull|✎☠]] 22:48, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
::: Did I ever say otherwise? --[[User:HeroicJay|HeroicJay]] 03:37, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Good enough for me, I'm adding them.(I've been waiting forever for them to release Peach and Waluigi)--Rat235478683--
::But we don't have any proof yet. I'm removing them. -[[User:Sukecchi|Sukecchi]] 23:37, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
But that guy said there was magazine proof.--Rat235478683--
::...Saying and showing are two completly different things. He has yet to provide evidence. I can't even find this Le Jouer using Google or anything. I don't even think it exists.
::When it comes to stuff like this, you can't jump the gun. -[[User:Sukecchi|Sukecchi]] 23:45, 16 September 2006 (UTC)
:::The only French gaming mag that I found is "Jeux Video", and it mentions nothing of the sort. I even did a search using Yahoo's French engine for Waluigi and/or Peach in ''Brawl'' and only came up with forum pages. So, this does not sound to plausible right now. Besides, if Nintendo wanted people to know, they would tell everyone. They're just not the type of company to have info "accidentally" leaked to the public. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|Saturn]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green">Yoshi</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]]</sup> 00:13, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
Rat235478683 always jumps the gun...not to be mean but seriously man wait for ''real'' proof.--[[User:DarkHero|DarkHero]] 00:34, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
:Someone on GameFaqs came up with this story, later revealing it to be a "psycology experiment", so no, it's BS. [[User:199.126.137.209|199.126.137.209]] 11:07, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
::If only everyone had the sense to look up info for themselves instead of believing everything they hear right off the bat. No offense to you, Rat235478683, I'm pretty sure you meant well. I'm going to go on the record and say that I ''detest'' GameFAQs. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="darkblue">Saturn</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green">Yoshi</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]]</sup> 11:32, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
I looked up the title and all I found was French magazines. So I guess I got overly excited.--Rat235478683--
:It's understandable. I want Waluigi and Peach to be in the game as well. Here's to hoping... -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="darkblue">Saturn</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green">Yoshi</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]]</sup> 02:30, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
== Rumor Section ==
Maybe we can make a rumor section and write down whether they are true or false.--Rat235478683--
:No. -- [[User:Steel359|Steel]] 16:16, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
::No, as big rumour proven flase have invisi-text in the appropriate area to stop it from being added, to have the section wouldn't add much to the article, as deciding what would be valid for the section would be difficult or it would grow consideriable with every little rumour, and the section would be a target of vandalism. If a rumour comes up that has some validity (as in it is backed by a valid source, like IGN or something), then it would be added to the appropriate section with a source. [[User:JQF|JQF]] 17:07, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
== Sonic rumours ==
Just to note, according to [[NGamer]] magazine -
:::''Shigeru Miyamoto has admitted that Sonic is the most requested addition for Brawl.''
Just so you know. [[User:HighwayCello|H]]<font color="green">[[User:HighwayCello/Esperanza|ig]]</font>[[User:HighwayCello|hway]] <b><sup><font color="#CCCCFF">[[User talk:HighwayCello|Daytrippers]]</font></sup></b> 17:11, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
:Actually, I think I heard that very line elsewhere, possibly in this very article or linked from it. Too bad requested doesn't mean confirmed, though. :( [[User:Erik the Appreciator|Erik Jensen]] <b><sup>[[User talk:Erik the Appreciator|(I appreciate talk!)]]</sup></b> 18:35, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
::I concur. [[User:HighwayCello|H]]<font color="green">[[User:HighwayCello/Esperanza|ig]]</font>[[User:HighwayCello|hway]] <b><sup><font color="#CCCCFF">[[User talk:HighwayCello|Daytrippers]]</font></sup></b> 18:37, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
:::He has been the most requested character for quite some time now. I would stake quite a large sum of money on his being included in the game. --[[User:172.193.6.13|172.193.6.13]] 20:07, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
::::I wouldn't count my Chao before they hatch. We really have no idea if Sega even wants their character to appear in ''Brawl''. Doesn't Sonic Team already have their noses to the grindstone as it is? -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="darkblue">Saturn</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green">Yoshi</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|THE VOICES]]</sup> 21:42, 17 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::Well, nobody expected Sonic to appear on the 'Cube, either. And as I recall, Sonic Team was absorbed into Sega itself. Something like that. --[[User:172.191.217.115|172.191.217.115]] 00:03, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
==I think the bios would look more professional if there were a screenshot of each character under their bio==
You know how encyclopedias have pictures to follow certain words. This is wikipedia. Not to mention, there is no picture of Wario on this page at all. {{unsigned|66.194.217.222}}
::Please sign your posts.
::Adding an image for each character would make the article cluttered. The image at the top of the character section shows everyone. -[[User:Sukecchi|Sukecchi]] 18:02, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
:::Almost everyone. It doesn't have Snake or Wario. Snake already has a picture on the page (next to his bio). I think we can pacify 66.194.217.222 with a pic of Wario near his bio. [[User:Jaxad0127|Jaxad0127]] 18:50, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
::::A picture of Wario should be added, as should a picture of regular Samus, but to give every character their own picture would be too much.[[User:Tuesday42|Tuesday42]] 22:51, 18 September 2006 (UTC)
:::::Especially since that on picture covers almost all of them. [[User:Jaxad0127|Jaxad0127]] 03:37, 19 September 2006 (UTC)
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