Talk:Mebibyte and Optic tract: Difference between pages

Revision as of 14:23, 27 April 2007

Revision as of 20:50, 10 July 2007

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{{Infobox Brain|

''Discussion about centralization took place at [[Talk:Binary prefix]].''

Name = {{PAGENAME}} |

Latin = tractus opticus |

GraySubject = 189 |

GrayPage = 814 |

Image = Gray773.png |

Caption = The left [[optic nerve]] and the [[optic tract]]s. |

Image2 = |

Caption2 = |

IsPartOf = [[Visual system]]|

Components = |

Artery = |

Vein = |

BrainInfoType = hier |

BrainInfoNumber = 443 |

MeshName = |

MeshNumber = |

DorlandsPre = t_15 |

DorlandsSuf = 12817061 |

}}

The '''optic tract''' is a part of the [[visual system]] in the [[brain]].

It is a continuation of the [[optic nerve]] and runs from the [[optic chiasm]] (where half of the information from each eye crosses sides, and half stays on the same side) to the [[lateral geniculate nucleus]].

== Explain why it was named as such ==

You sound like you're trying to say "megabyte" with cold when saying "mebibyte", so where did the word come from? Who decided to name them as such? And why does wiki use it so much on certain articles. None of my college proffessers have ever mentioned this term to me, and synonomously the most recent verison of the official A+ certification book states that a "megabyte" has the both the 1000x1000 and 1024x1024 meaning (and its up to a clarification to state how many bytes it really is). What this basically means is that mebibyte is by no means wide spread and I dont think its up to wikipedia authors to slap it into articles as if it was standard usage. The floppy article, for example, alternates on the term all the time and it gives it an unproffessional look.

==Right vs. left==

:See [[binary prefix]] for the origin of the term.

The relationships of the retinal fibers to the optic tracts are as follows:

:We use it in Wikipedia because it is a standard, it's unambiguous, and we use binary units in many fields; not just computer science. See the [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers)#Binary_unit_prefixes|Manual of Style]] and [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers)/archive22#Unit_Disagreement.2C_MiB_vs._MB|this discussion]]. — [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] 16:23, 30 January 2006 (UTC)

{| class="wikitable"

== This naming seams forced ==

| '''optic tract''' || '''temporal retinal fibers''' || '''nasal retinal fiber'''

Again, there should be vote and more options, this naming is just ridiculous. Aesthetically, phoneticaly, ortographicaly I don't like it and is confusing with 'bit' measures. Megabyte is 2^20, so its not 1,000,000 but 1,048,576. The reasoning behind the separate names for both is good, but the name for the 1,048,576=MiB is just bad chosen. -- [[User:IEEE|IEEE]] 01:26, 7 March 2007 (UTC)

|-

| right optic tract || from the right eye|| from the left eye

|-

| left optic tract || from the left eye || from the right eye

|}

==Pathology==

== WTF is a mebibyte? Who made this up? ==

A lesion in the left optic tract will cause right-sided [[homonomous hemianopsia]].

:The [[IEC]]. It makes a lot of sense actually, even if it's a stupid sounding word. - [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] 22:37, Dec 31, 2004 (UTC)

:: Sorry, which IEC? That page has 20 seperate choices, some obviously wrong but not enough. In any case I'm sure it's the IEC whose members make money by being able to continue to sell hard drives completely against the common usage of the term in the computer world as it has stood for 40 years. And the "even if it's stupid sounding" means avoiding the realities of language. Emtymology of the meanings of words by academics/committe/corporation is a horrible method of creating language you hope to become common use. Come up with a word that's not stupid looking, stupid sounding, and hard/stupid to pronounce - and people might use it. Better yet, why not change the ONE thing that's "causing confusion" - hard drive capacity values printed on boxes - instead of asking everyone else in the rest of the world to change 10e12 other locations and the usage by 3e9 people. Sigh. Yes yes, I'll go somewhere else to complain about this :) [[User:74.103.98.163|74.103.98.163]] 18:40, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

==Additional images==

''In any case I'm sure it's the IEC whose members make money by being able to continue to sell hard drives completely against the common usage of the term in the computer world as it has stood for 40 years.'

<gallery>

Image:Hippocampus (brain).jpg|Diagram of hippocampus

Image:lateral_geniculate_nucleus.png|Schematic diagram of the primate lateral geniculate nucleus.

Image:Gray689.png|Superficial dissection of brain-stem. Ventral view.

Image:Gray718.png|Coronal section of brain through intermediate mass of third ventricle.

Image:Gray719.png|Hind- and mid-brains; postero-lateral view.

Image:Gray722.png|Scheme showing central connections of the [[optic nerve]]s and optic tracts.

Image:Gray724.png|Base of brain.

Image:Gray730.png|Section of brain showing upper surface of temporal lobe.

Image:Gray745.png|Dissection showing the course of the cerebrospinal fibers.

</gallery>

{{Visual_system}}

: Surely you meant to refer to Microsoft making money using a measurement incorrectly in spite of a common usage that has stood for hundreds of years. :-) — [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] 21:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

{{Sensory_system}}

[[category:visual system]]

The use of mebibyte is being discussed at [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Village_pump_%28policy%29#Unit_Disagreement.2C_MiB_vs._MB] --[[User:Thax|Thax]] 8 July 2005 02:56 (UTC)

{{neuroscience-stub}}

'''''A [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers)#Vote|vote]] has been started on whether Wikipedia should use these prefixes all the time, only in highly technical contexts, or never.''''' - [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] 14:49, July 12, 2005 (UTC)

[[it:Tratto ottico]]

Vote over, [[Wikipedia:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers)#Binary_prefixes|here's the Manual of Style on the subject]]. - [[User:Trevyn|Trevyn]] 04:42, 7 September 2006 (UTC)

[[pl:Droga wzrokowa]]

: I'd love to see the archived vote and discussion, but good luck finding it in the 62 pages of archives of the discussion page. Wikipedia needs the ability to search for simple text "on all pages directly linked from the current page" or something. Google is of no help. [[User:74.103.98.163|74.103.98.163]] 20:55, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

:: Google works, but you have to use the right search terms. :-/ [http://www.google.com/search?q=site:en.wikipedia.org+manual%20of%20style%20vote%20dates%20and%20numbers%20binary] A direct link is [[Wikipedia_talk:Manual_of_Style_(dates_and_numbers)/archive22#Unit_Disagreement.2C_MiB_vs._MB|here]]. — [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] 21:47, 18 January 2007 (UTC)

== I think they should, as base 10 is really for you humans, we computers are base 2 freaks... 10 + 10 = 100 ==

<tt>THANK YOU FOR YOUR INPUT - [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] 13:56, July 18, 2005 (UTC)</tt>

Omegatron, please seek help.

- Anonymous

:How can I help you? — [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] 01:45, 9 October 2005 (UTC)

I think it would be useful to include a pronounciation key -- I would like to know if the "i" in Mebibyte should by short (as in "think") or long (as in "time").

:''It is suggested that in English, the first syllable of the name of the binary-multiple prefix should be pronounced in the same way as the first syllable of the name of the corresponding SI prefix, and that the second syllable should be pronounced as &quot;bee.&quot;'' [http://physics.nist.gov/cuu/Units/binary.html] — [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] 00:33, 19 January 2006 (UTC)

::Thank you! I added this to the main article on prefixes.

== THIS IS BS ==

This is complete BS! Who gave the IEC complete control over the use of bits and bytes in

everyday language. I bet they are receiving payola from marketing/sales industry to

keep consumers confused.. I wrote this into the talk page of IEC 60027, I elaborated more

on it in my blog at www.bl3nder.com:

Since computers calculate and manage data in base two, of which there are two states for each bit (often represented 0 and 1). It makes no sense to discuss information in base ten. A Kilobit thus must be counted in units that are aligned with byte quantitites.

* One Kilobit = 1024 bits.

* One Megabit = 1024 Kilobits.

* One Gigabit = 1024 Megabits.

* One Terabit = 1024 Gigabits.

This would make the conversion from bits to bytes easier:

* 1/8 Kilobyte = One Kilobit.

* 1/8 Megabyte = One Megabit.

* 1/8 Gigabyte = One Gigabit.

* 1/8 Terabyte = One Terabit.

When data rates are discussed in base ten, those data rates should be given a seperate unit of quantity and something impossible to confuse with the above.

Like

* 1000 bits = Decabit = Deca-bit

* 1000000 bits = DecaDecabit = BiDeca-bit

* 1000000000 = DecaDecaDecabit = TriDeca-bit

* 1000000000000 = DecaDecaDecaDecabit = Quad-Deca-bit

* 1000000000000000 = DecaDecaDecaDecaDecabit = Penta-Deca-bit

Make the unit names different for base 10 measurement versus base 2 measurement. Since in the use of bits and bytes, base 2 was the preference, documentation shouldn't have to be changed to make discussion relevant to base-10 measurements as it would over-complicate existing documentation on existing systems.

Choose a human-friendly unit name for base-10 unit sizes, and a computer-friendly unit name for base-2 unit sizes.

BTW Sales/Advertising people use Mbps, MBps interchangeably, the purpose for this is to cheat/confuse consumers when discussing storage capacities and data rates, this topic is more political than practical.

Some may not consider this to be a big deal, but it makes the language sound funny and it forces the computing industry to change it's documents and not those of the communications and marketing/advertising industry. There was never a time when bits were used without reference to bytes. If a Kilobit should be 1000 bits, tell me how you intend to count that in bits, as 1000 bits represented with in binary is "1111101000", or in hexadecimal "2E8". 1024 in binary is represented as "10000000000", in Hexidecimal it is "400". Okay so which is more concise? To represent bit quantities in base 10 or in base 2?

I'm sick and tired of seeing advertising inserts that refer to "Megabits" as a scale of

communication.. When you know, if it was discussed in bytes, it would not look as significant.

* 1 Kbps = 1 Kilobit per second = 128 bytes per second

* 1 Mbps = 1 Megabit per second = 128 Kilobytes per second = .125 Megabytes.

* 10 Mbps = 10 Megabits per second = 1.25 Megabytes per second.

* 100 Mbps = 100 Megabits per second = 12.5 Megabytes per second.

* 1 Gbps = 1000 Megabits per second = 125 Megabytes per second.

The only confusion here is how to represent a quantity in terms useful to a

computer programmer and in terms useful to a human. The only people that would

want to represent this information in base 10 are those who are confused or

who do not do well with math and want to talk about thousands of bits and bytes

without looking like a fool. Note that Mac users refer to graphics screens as having

millions of colors and not 16,777,216 colors, which is 2^24th.

--[[User:Rofthorax|Rofthorax]] 00:51, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

: "You might wish to go to [[Usenet]] or start a [[blog]] if you want to convince people of the merits of your favorite views. You can also use [[Wikinfo]] which promotes a "sympathetic point of view" for every article. Wikipedia was not made for opinion, it was made for fact." - [[WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_a_soapbox|Wikipedia is not a soapbox]] — [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] 03:55, 1 June 2006 (UTC)

::While I agree with the principle that the wikipedia is not a soapbox, keep in mind: This is a discussion about word usage, not about "facts". Common usage is still "mega" not "mebi." I've yet to see "mebi" on any consumer product. [[User:CobraA1|CobraA1]] 10:09, 5 December 2006 (UTC)

== Why 'Mebibyte' won't work ==

KB, MB, GB, etc are inaccurate because it's used by leighmen to mean "about 1000 bytes". Colloquial speech has then forced the notion into ambiguity, and i think Mebibyte will suffer the same fate. Here is my reasoning:

Fractional representation

When a human sees a filesize, for instance, in bytes, it often amounts to a really large number, often in the millions. Such a large number is not really easy to glance over, so you'd like to express it in a higher unit. For instance, a file that's 8496792 bytes is expressed as 8297.6484375 KB, or 8.10317230224609375 MB. Not an exact representation since it does not divide even with 1024, and i'd say the overwhelming majority of numbers don't. So when Microsoft reports a file size to a user, they'd give a user-friendly representation, but sacrificing accuracy.

Even when i as a programmer want to express a filesize in bytes, i would hardly ever use the term Mebibyte or Megabyte for that matter as an exact term, because i know that accuracy will be lost in the translation. If i wanted to express a filesize accurately to the byte, i'd express it in bytes, never in megabytes, and if the mebibyte was the unambiguous gold standard i STILL wouldn't use it, because it STILL wouldn't be accurate unless the number divided evenly with 1024.

So the term mebibyte, and such, are useless. The only thing they contribute are confusion, and another layer of jargon. How often are you going to have to express something that's exactly 1 KiB, MiB, or TiB? hardly ever! And if you did, you'd probably be better off expressing it in exact number of bytes, or the "evil Micro$oft" *rolleyes* MB, because it's a pretty specific situation where you have an audience that knows what MiB is, and that's it supposedly unambiguos.

Anyway, i thought i'd drop that here in discussion. [[User:64.173.240.130|64.173.240.130]] 01:03, 17 January 2007 (UTC)

==I fought the law and the law won==

I refer you to [http://members.optus.net/alexey/prefBin.xhtml this article] for some history on this definition and some legal cases taht have been influenced by it. Nothing has actually made it in front of a judge yet, though.

I am working in a corporate environment and we are looking for a way of differentiating the two amounts (mega and mebi) for consumers so this is actually a useful term. It's a real pain to be specific with customers when they don't understandthe difference and need explanatons of basic terms (and their contexts.) <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Craigwbrown|Craigwbrown]] ([[User talk:Craigwbrown|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Craigwbrown|contribs]]) 04:33, 31 January 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->

:Laymen are confused by the terms that computer experts have been using for years so what do they do? They rename the widely accepted value. MiB makes more sense as being short for Million Bytes than it does for Megabytes. BiB for Billion bytes, etc. This is a standard that won't stick even if a standards body is behind it.[[User:Jimberg98|Jimberg98]] 22:44, 2 April 2007 (UTC)

:Another thing about MiB is an abbreviation for Mebibyte which is an abbreviation for Mega Binary Byte. That's pretty lame in itself, but it's also lame since it is redundant. Byte is an abbreviation for Binary Term. So MiB all expanded is Mega Binary Binary Term.[[User:Jimberg98|Jimberg98]] 16:39, 3 April 2007 (UTC)

::Hee hee - some time ago I posted negative comments here about the term. But just the other day I was using a linux disk partitioning utility, and it was giving numbers in "MiB" ... and I knew exactly what it was saying. No confusion. It was ... actually nice. And if I pronounce it "mib" (just like an snmp mib) it actually doesn't sound half bad. Did we ever have a short spoken method of saying "MB" and "GB"? Nope, we had to pronounce the entire words.

::Of course now we've got this clash between all the old documentation/software that has KB/MB/GB. Huge numbers of us are ALWAYS going to think MB=MiB, GB=GiB, and we're just going to continue thinking poorly of the disk manufacturers. I think the main negative connotation that makes us all so mad about this is that it's clearly a bunch of greedy corporations that were violating the common accepted usage of the language/terms who have forced this through solely for their benefit, as a "way out".

:: [[User:74.103.98.163|74.103.98.163]] 14:23, 27 April 2007 (UTC)

== This is worse than worthless ==

Another sickening example of catering to the most stupid people of all. This is a made up word which will only cause problems, not solve any. If someone is unable to comprehend a base-2 number, what makes you think they could even tell you how many zeros are in the number one-million?

Agreed. This is stupid terminology and it smacks of political correctness, which doesn't belong in a technical discussion. "MiB" and "GiB" was probably invented by the same people who came up with "BCE" and "CE". [[User:Art Cancro|Art Cancro]] 13:03, 26 April 2007 (UTC)

: "[[Political correctness]]"?? — [[User:Omegatron|Omegatron]] 21:19, 26 April 2007 (UTC)