Talk:Manx cat and Hizb ut-Tahrir: Difference between pages

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{{Infobox_Political_Party|
I'm a newbie to Wikipedia but not to the Manx breed cat. I'm a professional Manx cat breeder with cats that have Regional and National level wins. I am not trying to promote my cattery or sell cats, only promoting I'm doing is for my breed in an honest, accurate manner. When I posted my article on the breed I intended to make sure my breed of choice (which I have put nine years of my life into) is not misrepresented by some of the things you have posted. There is NO SUCH THING as Manx Syndrome!!!!! Manx cats are not the unhealthy cats you portray them as being in your article!!! In the nine years I've been breeding the registered Manx cat, I have only ever experienced ONE thing you claim they can have (bowel incontinence). That was in a Father/Daughter breeding which in itself could have been the problem and was not repeated. Manx cats tails DO NOT have to be docked!!! I've left their tails on for years with no ill effects to date as have other breeders. I think before you remove my posting for yours next time you might want to read what I have posted and research this breed better, who would know more about the breed than a breeder? Are you a registered Manx cat breeder or a cat owner? I have not posted a long article on the breed, there is room for you to add something to it, however I hope we can both agree on it if you intend to post things about this breed and there should be some way of you verifying the information your posting.
party_name = Hizb ut-Tahrir<br>{{rtl-lang|ar|حزب التحرير}}|
colorcode = #008000|
party_logo = [[Image:HTlogo main.jpg|175px]]|
leader = [[Ata Khalil Abu-Rashta]]|
foundation = [[1953]]|
founder = [[Taqiuddin al-Nabhani]]|
ideology = [[Pan-Islamism]]|
headquarters = Unknown|
international = Worldwide, but most significant in [[Central Asia]]|
membership = 1 million (est.)<ref name="allahandthecaliphate">Malik, Shiv. [http://www.newstatesman.com/200409130018 For Allah and the caliphate], [[New Statesman]], 13 September 2004</ref>|
website = http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org. ; http://www.hizb.org.uk|
}}
'''Hizb ut-Tahrir''' ([[Arabic language|Arabic]]: '''حزب التحرير'''; [[English language|English]]: ''Party of Liberation'') is an international, [[Sunni]], [[pan-Islamist]] vanguard<ref>[http://users.dickinson.edu/~commins/TaqiAl-dinAl-Nabhani.pdf Taqi al-Din al-Nabhani and the HT Party]</ref> political party whose goal is to unite all Muslim countries in a "unitary" Islamic state or [[caliphate]], ruled by Islamic law and headed by an elected [[caliph]].<ref>[http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.info/english/constitution.htm Draft Constitution] Article 16</ref>
 
[[Taqiuddin al-Nabhani]], a [[Sufi]] Islamic scholar and appeals court judge ''([[Qadi]])''<ref>[http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hizb-ut-tahrir.htm hizb ut tahrir al Islami]</ref> from [[Jerusalem]], founded the organization in 1953.
==EliasAlucard's response==
Look, that old article wasn't mine. I had just added some extra stuff into it. It is very clear that you are a [[n00b]] here on Wikipedia. Before editing, I think you should read the edit rules more. Why? Because you are removing vital parts of the article, like inter-wikilinks and other useful stuff. If you check the history of the article ([http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Manx_%28cat%29&action=history click here]), you'll notice that I didn't start the article; many people before me wrote it up. I am very sure that all of us together know more than you do. As much as the breed Manx has improved in the health department, it is a known fact that this breed CAN have major issues as a direct result of the Manx syndrome. You want verification? [http://www.fanciers.com/breed-faqs/manx-faq.html Check this FAQ and search for syndrome]... by not knowing this, I highly question your skills as a Manx breeder. Or could it be because you want to sell more of the breed and glorify it because of that by removing the negative parts? That's in opposition to [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view|Wikipedia's neutral point of view]]. It doesn't matter if you've bred the race for centuries, not knowing this makes you a n00b here as well, because this is a very, VERY common knowledge a Manx breeder MUST have; it's mandatory because the kittens/offspring might suffer severe problems if bred inaccurate or with two tailless parents. I did not portray them as unhealthy cats, the editors before me did, and it is true that they can be very unhealthy. The breed is known for having been created by inbreeding due to the lack of [[cat]]s on [[Isle of Man]]. This is why the race is tailless. Ever bred two siblings of any cat [[breed]]? It is very common to get one or more tailless kittens as a result of this.
 
The party promotes "an elaborate and detailed program for instituting an Islamist state"<ref>[http://users.dickinson.edu/~commins/TaqiAl-dinAl-Nabhani.pdf Taqi al-Din al-Nabhani and the HT Party]</ref> which will "establish the laws of the Islamic [[Shariah]] and to carry the Da'wah of Islam to the world." <ref>[http://www.khilafah.com/kcom/the-khilafah/issues/ The Re-establishment of the Khilafah is an obligation upon all Muslims]</ref> It seeks the removal of what it sees as neo-colonialist [[western world|western]] control of the [[Islamic world]], and a return to government based on [[Islamic law]]. In accordance with that the party has called for "an end to US interventions, energy inspired wars, puppet (Muslim) governments and western values forced by the barrel of a gun <ref>HT Demonstration to the U.S. Embassy [http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/who-is-ht/htb-national-events/htb-demonstration-to-the-us-embassy.html]"</ref> It states that "Israel is founded upon a land that was taken by force, after its people were driven out<ref> HT article: The Zionist Hatred [http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/the-zionist-hatred.html]</ref>" and believes that the only solution is a [[caliphate]] that "will provide stability and security to all the people of the region, Muslims and Non-Muslims"<ref> HT article: Israeli aggression is the root cause of this disaster [http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/resources/issues-explained/israels-attacks-are-uniting-muslims-throughout-the-world.html]</ref>. Hizb ut-Tahrir "has spread its message" to more than 40 countries, and is estimated to have about one million members.<ref name="allahandthecaliphate" /> Hizb ut-Tahrir is banned, but still active in, several [[Arab]] and [[Central Asian]] countries, is very active in the [[Western world|west]], particularly in the United Kingdom where a ban has been proposed due to allegedly anti-semitic comments related to the [[Israel]]i occupation of [[Palestinian territories]]; the group maintains that they are [[anti-zionist]], ''not'' [[anti-semitic]].
===Pictures, links etc===
If you want to add your pictures and links, that's fine. Just don't remove everything else. They're there for a good reason. In my opinion, you've made this article way inferior.
==Aims and Methods==
The stated aim of Hizb ut-Tahrir is to unite all Muslim nations in a "unitary" Islamic state or [[caliphate]], headed by an elected [[caliph]].<ref>[http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.info/english/constitution.htm Draft Constitution] Article 16</ref> This it holds is a religious duty, "an obligation that Allah has decreed for the Muslims and commanded them to fulfill. He warned of the punishment awaiting those who neglect this duty." <ref>[http://www.khilafat.pk/28rajab/books/the_islamic_state.pdf The Islamic State, p.9] </ref>
According to the BBC, the group "professes non-violence and calls for the return in Muslim majority countries to the caliphate which oversaw the [[Islamic Golden Age|golden age of Islam]] before European imperialism colonized the [[Middle East]]."<ref name=BBCAPOLOGISM>[http://www.bbc.co.uk/london/content/articles/2006/03/14/kurt_met_police_trust_feature.shtml Who's Listening to Whom?]</ref> HT does anticipate conflict with non-Muslims or Westernized Muslims, however. The same article quotes HT literature saying `Islam will naturally be at odds with, or even in conflict with, every other civilisation or ideology`, and that Muslims who champion integration of Islam with Western civilization `tend to be weaker-minded Muslims who simply compromise their ways due to what they deem as necessity." <ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4127688.stm Q&A: Hizb ut-Tahrir]</ref> HT preaches that the Western world's concept of [[Freedom (political)|freedom]] to legislative law through elected parliaments does not exist in Islam;<ref name=HTIDEOLOGY/> and that [[Islamic law]] will be applied.
 
Although ''hizb'' means party in Arabic, according to Zeyno Baran of the Washington based [[Nixon Centre]] think tank, HT usually doesn't register as a political party or attempt to elect candidates to political office in the countries where it is active.<ref>"Fighting the War of Ideas", Zeyno Baran. Foreign Affairs. New York: Nov/Dec 2005.Vol.84, Iss. 6; pg. 79</ref> Nor does it usually engage in charitable or social service projects like the [[Muslim Brotherhood]]. <ref name="allahandthecaliphate" />
Also, when you edit, use the show preview button, because saving every little change you do overloads wikipedia with redundant and superfluous article history, if everyone did like this, wikipedia wouldn't exist due to server malfunction.
Hizb ut-Tahrir's focus is on "ideological struggle" to establish its vision of the caliphate in the minds of Muslims.
This is not true in all countries or throughout HT history however. When it was first founded, HT ''did'' register as a public political organisation and stood for parliametary seats in Jordan in the 1950s, according to [[Suha Taji-Farouki]]. The group was banned by the regime at the time and its 'legal' status did not resume until the organisation was legalised in Lebanon in May 2006. <ref> [http://www.washingtoninstitute.org/templateC05.php?CID=2479]</ref>)
Kyrgyz Hizb ut-Tahrir members campaigned unsuccessfully for an affiliated candidate in Kyrgyzstan's national presidential election in July 2005,<ref name=KYRGYZSTAN/>, and have participated in municipal elections where their followers have won in a number of regions <ref>"Evolution of political regimes in Central Asia: ways and opportunities" Ferghana.Ru Information Agency [http://enews.ferghana.ru/article.php?id=1862]</ref>
 
Hizb ut-Tahrir has set out a three-stage plan of action to achieve its goals:
By the way, for what it's worth, I am an owner of the breed, two siblings, and I've done my homework on the race. My Manx kittens aren't registered, and frankly, that doesn't mean shit because it's a cheap shot of milking money out of cat owners.
#Establish a community of HuT members who work together in the same way as the [[Sahaba|companions of Muhammad]]. Members should accept the goals and methods of the organization as their own and be ready to work to fulfill these goals.<ref name=SAHABA>[http://www.risala.org/books/1.Hizb-ut-Tahrir-new.pdf Untitled] Hizb ut-Tahrir</ref>
*[[User:EliasAlucard|EliasAlucard]]|[[User talk:EliasAlucard|Talk]] 04:09, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)
#Build public opinion among the Muslim masses for the caliphate and the other Islamic concepts that will lead to a revival of Islamic thought.<ref name=SAHABA/>
#Once public opinion is achieved in a target Muslim country through debate and persuasion, the group hopes to obtain support from army generals, leaders, and other influential figures or bodies to facilitate the change of the government. The government would be replaced by one that implements Islam "generally and comprehensively", carrying Islamic thought to people throughout the world.<ref name=SAHABA/>
A less sympathetic description of HuT plan by Dosym Satpayev, director of a Kazakh think tank Assessment Risks Group, is that HuT <blockquote>"plans its development in three stages... First they convert new members. Secondly, they establish a network of secret cells, and finally, they try to infiltrate the government to work to legalize their party and its aims."<ref name=KYRGYZSTAN>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/4531848.stm Central Asia's Islamic militancy] BBC News</ref> </blockquote>
 
Hizb ut-Tahrir's organisation is said to be strongly centralized with its central leadership based in Palestine. Underneath its center are "national organisations or wilayas, usually headed by a group of 12, control networks of local committees and cells." New members "spend at least two years studying party literature, under the guidance of mentors," before taking an oath of loyalty to the party. "A parallel, separate structure exists for women, who are encouraged to become fully active members." <ref name="allahandthecaliphate" />
== Karello's Reply ==
 
The basic unit of the party is a cell of five members, the leader of which is called a ''mushrif.'' At least in areas where the party is illegal, such as Central Asia, only the ''mushrif'' knows the names of members of other cells. <ref>Abou Zahab, Mariam; Roy, Olivier, ''Islamist Networks, Columbia University Press, (2004), p.9-10</ref>
I understand the article was not written by you to begin with. However, it seems you think you've taken over "ownership" of it and it's inaccuracies by demanding they continue to be posted. By not correcting information contained within that was not accurate your given people who visit this site the wrong impression of this breed. I salute you for allowing a more positive, accurate portrayal of the breed I've posted to remain listed this last time. I know all the breeders who wrote the Manx Breed FAQS site and do not believe they would want such negative, incorrect information posted about our breed. I do not know Karen Johnson the first to publish the information about the Manx breed cat here or any of the others but can assure you they are not Manx breeders and can not back up what Karen published with the knowledge I have of this breed through working with it. I highly doubtany of you know as much as I and my fellow Manx breeders know with over 40 years of breeding experience so don't go there! Since there is no such thing as Manx Syndrome and you refuse to accept this with your comment of "it is a known fact that this breed CAN have major issues as a direct result of the Manx syndrome." I have added an external link to a very experienced Manx breeders comments on Manx Syndrome for you to read all about it yourself. Hopefully, you'll take Sherman Ross's word on this if you won't mine! As for the Cat Fanciers The Manx: Cat Breed FAQS you wanted me to look up, only two of the site owners are still breeding Manx cats. One of which was my mentor when I started breeding Manx, nine years ago. To the best of my knowledge, that site has not been updated since 1995 as stated, the information contained there in is not up to date with current Manx FAQs or completely accurate. By not knowing this it is you who should be questioning your own knowledge of the breed instead of me. If you think I'm correcting misinformation about the Manx breed and I must defend myself for being a Manx breeder feel free to look up my website at http://www.karellomanx.com/availablekittens.html and read about my philosiphies concerning my breeding practice. You'll be SHOCKED to learn I'm not the kind of breeder you portray me to be. In fact, perhaps my accomplishments listed on my site might serve to prove I do know what I'm doing and have been VERY successful at it. More so than some others who have experiences the horrible things mentioned in the prior article about this breed. I and other Manx breeders I work with have breed two tailless parents to each other without having any of the horrible health issues you speak of happening. I don't know who's the n00b but I think when it comes to breding the registered Manx cat you are! The Manx breed is not tailless because of inbreeding, it is tailless due to a genetic mutation. How it was introduced to the ISle of Man no one knows of course but it was introduced not through inbreeding. Inbreeding only served to concentrate the amount of cats having the genetic mutation on the Island. I do not breed siblings together and can not say if it were done one or more tailless kittens would be the result. I'm a professional Manx cat breeder I work only with registered stock that has known decendants from the Isle of Man and are true, purebred Manx cats not some cheap shot of milking money out of people there IS a difference.
 
==Leadership==
===What is a "Domestic Tailless" cat?===
Founder Taqiuddin al-Nabhani died in 1977 and was succeeded by Abd al-Qadim Zallum who was succeeded in turn by [[Ata Khalil Abu-Rashta]] when Zallum died in 2003. Another source dated 2004 states that HuT "seems actually to be under the control of a group of militants based in London." <ref>Abou Zahab, Mariam; Roy, Olivier, ''Islamist Networks, Columbia University Press, (2004), p.10</ref>
"If short hair cats with unknown ancestors are referred to as being "domestic short hairs" and long hair cats with unknown ancestors are referred to as being "domestic long hairs", common sense says people should refer to cats who are born tailless or short tailed with unknown ancestors as being "domestic tailless"? There is a difference between the registered Manx cat and a domestic tailless cat. To some it doesn't matter all they're looking for is any cat without a tail and that's fine, but for those who would like to know the difference and own a quality bred Manx I've provided an explanation.
 
==Timeline==
PLEASE NOTE: The genetic mutation that causes the registered Manx cat to be born without a tail can happen in "any cat". This happening in "any cat" does not then make the off spring of "any cat" born without a tail a Manx breed cat. Those tailless off spring of "any cat" are what should more correctly be referred to as "domestic tailless" cats. Domestic tailless cats descendants are usually unknown and cannot be traced like that of the registered Manx cats who originated on the Isle of Man, (thus the name). Sounds to me like your just a back yard breeder with domestic tailless cats and have no clue about the true Manx cat breed.
This is a partial annotated timeline of HuT actions relating to their adopted method to fulfil the party's original ''raison d'etre'' <ref>HuT book, Structuring of a Party, 1953 </ref> by assuming authority and implementing Islamic law.
 
{| class="wikitable"
===P.S.===
|-
Don't tell me what I can and can not post to this page, I have the knowledge to provide true, accurate facts about this breed. I did not post everything I know about the breed to be fair to others who would like to add to my information. I realize there are two sides to this story but speak from my own experience and truthfully. I do not have any problems with my Manx having health issues due to thier mutation or problems breeding rumpy to rumpy why should I mention it, that's NEUTRAL.
! Year
! Snapshot of Status
|-
| 1953
| Party founded by Taqiuddin al-Nabhani in Jerusalem.
|-
| 1956
| Party yet to decide how it would assume authority <ref name="caesarean">HuT leaflet: 'Caesarean Section', 27 January 1972</ref>
|-
| 1960
| Interaction Stage begins in Jordan, and society is unresponsive. Party revises its method. <ref name="caesarean" />
|-
| 1961
| Party adopts the method of seeking support from the influential faction(s) to assume power. <ref>HuT leaflet, 'A Style to Win the [[Ummah]] and to Take Its Leadership', 14 December 1980</ref>
|-
| 1964
| Party announces that society in Jordan had responded positively to its call, forcing it to attempt to take power in Jordan.<ref> HuT, Answer to a Question about Force, 20 March 1970 </ref>
|-
| 1968/69
| Party allegedly involved in two (failed) coup attempts in Jordan and Syria. <ref>Suha Taji-Farouki, A Fundamental Quest – Hizb ut-Tahrir and the Search for the Islamic Caliphate, pp. 27-29, Grey Seal, London 1996</ref>
|-
| 1974
| Party allegedly involved in (failed) coup attempt in Egypt. <ref>Suha Taji-Farouki, A Fundamental Quest – Hizb ut-Tahrir and the Search for the Islamic Caliphate, pp. 27-29, Grey Seal, London 1996</ref>
|-
| 1977
| Party founder and leader [[Taqiuddin al-Nabhani]] dies in Lebanon, succeeded by Abd al-Qadim Zallum, a Palestinian cleric.<ref>Al-Waie magazine, issues 234-235, August/September 2006 (Arabic).[http://www.al-waie.org/issues/234-235/article.php?id=396_0_31_0_C]</ref>
|-
| 1978
| Party acknowledges that the Muslims had reached a state of total surrender and despair and was not responding to anything.
Party acknowledges that this had caused the level of activity to decline almost to standstill, mainly due to misconceptions. <ref> HuT leaflet, 'A Letter to the Shebab', 20 July 1978 </ref>
|-
| 1998
| Party indicates that the Caliphate is now the wish of all the Muslims.<ref> HuT Progress Dossier, 1998 </ref>
|-
| 2003
| Party leader Abd al-Qadim Zallum dies in Lebanon, succeeded (earlier that year) by [[Ata Khalil Abu-Rashta]], a Palestinian civil engineer.<ref>Al-Sabeel newspaper, issue 489, p. 9, May 6-12, 2003 (Arabic).</ref> <ref>Al-Waie magazine, issue 197, p. 3, August 2003 (Arabic)</ref>
|-
|}
 
==Policies==
==EliasAlucard's second reply==
==="Rights" or "Freedoms"===
I'm not posting inaccuracies, you are. [http://www.whiskas.com.au/breeds/default.asp?b=247&subnav=e-r Check this], how many sites do I need to show you? I don't care about your self-proclaimed omniscience about this breed. I trust all these sites more than you. I quote:
 
Hizb ut-Tahrir rejects the notion of absolute freedom in religion or [[capitalism]]. Article 7 of its Draft Constitution declares that Muslims who "have by themselves renounced Islam ... are guilty of apostasy ([[murtad]]) from Islam [and] are to be executed."
"'''The reason for the missing tail is due to a dominant mutant gene that appeared in the animal a long time ago due to the breed's confinement on the Isle of Man that also led to its concentrated in-breeding. The mutant gene caused a spinal malformation that spread throughout the cat community resulting in the loss of the animal's tail.'''"
Professor David Commins of Department of History at Dickinson College, wrote that according to Hizb ut-Tahrir's opinion that in Islam:<blockquote>Individuals do not have absolute freedom as in capitalism: Apostasy, adultery, alcohol, and certain economic practices are forbidden. But within well-recognized bounds, the Muslim enjoys much freedom. The means for maintaining the social order is the ''([[Caliphate]])'' state, but the state is not the source of the order. It is an instrument, not an end. The sovereign is the [[sharia]]. The state serves the nation by seeing to the observance of the sharia. Moreover, because Islam is rooted in a transcendent authority, its order is fixed and unchanging, guaranteeing forever human dignity, security, life, and property"[http://users.dickinson.edu/~commins/TaqiAl-dinAl-Nabhani.pdf]"</blockquote>
At a more philosophical level the party founder [[Nabhani]];<blockquote>"endorses free will in the sense that individuals choose to act or not to act in the knowledge of that choice's moral value. Humans do not enjoy unlimited freedom of action; human action is restricted by natural limits or impelled by instincts. Thus, individuals are morally responsible only for those acts that arise from free choice [http://users.dickinson.edu/~commins/TaqiAl-dinAl-Nabhani.pdf]</blockquote>
===Democracy===
 
Hizb ut-tahrir rejects [[democracy]], or any government based on [[popular sovereignty]] as unIslamic. Hizb ut-tahrir argues democracy is
[http://www.fanciers.com/breed-faqs/manx-faq.html And this is from The Manx Cat Breed FAQ:] "'''The tailless gene, a dominant gene, is lethal when breeding rumpies to each other into or beyond the third generation. The breeder continues to use tailed cats in the breeding program to insure strong kittens and to reduce the possibility of genetic deformity.'''"
<BLOCKQUOTE>''"the rule of people, for the people, by the people. The basis of the democratic system is that people possess the right of sovereignty, choice and implementation. ... it is a [[Kufr]] system because it is laid down by man and it is not from the Shari'ah Laws."''</BLOCKQUOTE>
However as a [[Sunni]] Muslim organization, HT believes the [[Caliph]], i.e the head of the [[Caliphate]] state, should not be inherited through blood lines or imposed on Muslims, but chosen by them. Muslims should then pledge their loyalty to the Caliph. The Caliph
<blockquote> "is the head of state in the Khilafah. He is not a king or dictator but an elected leader whose authority to rule must be given willingly by the Muslims through a special ruling contact called [[Bayah|baya]]. Without this [[Bayah|baya]] he cannot be the head of state. This is completely opposite to a king or dictator who imposes his authority through coercion and force. The tyrant kings and dictators in the Muslim world are ample examples of this, imprisoning and torturing the Muslims and stealing their wealth and resources."[http://www.khilafah.com/kcom/the-khilafah/issues/what-is-the-khilafah-caliphate.html]</blockquote>
HT favor a system of elections for Muslims to chose the Caliph and other ruling officials.
 
Also part of the HT constitution is a Majlis al-Umma for the Caliph to consult.
That's what the Australian Whiskas site says. I've read the very same information on EVERY OTHER MANX SITE I'VE CHECKED. Frankly, I don't care about what your site says, and I'm not even going to bother myself with looking. Why? Because it's partial to your opinions about the race, not facts. I trust these cat corporation sites a lot more; they if anyone should know anything about cats more than some according to herself cat-omniscient breeder. If anyone has taken over the site, then it sure is you. [http://www.royalcanin.se/default.aspx?pageID=5529&lang=sv This is the Swedish Royal Canine site]. Even this site backs up what I say. I'm sure you can't read Swedish, but ask anyone at Swedish wikipedia about this link. Royal Canine knows more than you.
 
The founder of [[Hizb ut-Tahrir]], Taqiuddin an-Nabhani, is careful to note that Shura differs from Western representative democracy in that while part of the "the ruling structure" of the Islamic caliphate, it's "not one of its pillars."
===Registered Cats===
<BLOCKQUOTE>This is because the shura (consultation) in Islam is for seeking the opinion and not for ruling. This is contrary to the parliamentary system in democracy. <ref>[http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/PDF/EN/en_books_pdf/system_of_islam.pdf ''The System of Islam, (Nidham ul Islam)'' by Taqiuddin an-Nabhani], Al-Khilafa Publications, 1423 AH - 2002 CE, p.61</ref></BLOCKQUOTE>
Oh yeah, I've read that part about registered cats before. It's stupid, seriously. If I have a [[Tiger]]/[[Lion]]/[[Cheetah]] or whatever and they're not registered, that doesn't make them less of actual breeds of the large [[felidae]] family that they already are part of. Sure, the idea of tracing a cat to its ancestors is a good one, but come on, acknowledge it... this entire registered cat thing is just a reason to sell one cat for $500 and higher.
 
===P.S.Women===
I couldn't restrain myself, I actually had a peek on your site. I found this: "Manx cats are like potato chips you can't have only one!" How can I take your site seriously if I find stuff like that? Also, when you end your messages here on the talk panel, do it with this because it's very important for others that might join the coversation, so they can know who wrote what:
*[[User:EliasAlucard|EliasAlucard]]|[[User talk:EliasAlucard|Talk]] 12:49, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC)
 
"The primary role of a woman is that of a mother and wife. She is an honour ([[Ird (Bedouin)|'ird]]) that must be protected." <ref>[http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.info/english/constitution.htm Draft Constitution Article 108]</ref> Unlike some Muslim traditionalists, Hizb ut-Tahrir, advocates women's [[suffrage]] or right to vote, the right of women to choose a partner freely, right to seek employment, have custody of children after [[divorce]], and run in elections. However women would be barred from the ruling positions such as [[caliph]], Chief Justice (''lit'' judge of the 'Court of Unjust Acts'), [[Wali|provincial governor]] or mayor. Article 109 of the party's draft constitution outlines [[Sex segregation|segregation of the sexes]] in public institutions and during sporting events.Muslim women would be required to dress in accordance with ''[[khimar]]'' and ''[[jilbab]]''<ref name=JILBAB>[http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=544&Itemid=112 Re: 'Of course women have a right to choose. But agreeing to wear a jilbab is no choice at all'] Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain</ref>, but not necessarily with the [[niqab]] favoured by more fundamentalist movements (''images of women's section'':<ref name=NIQAB>[http://images.google.com/images?svnum=10&hl=en&lr=&q=hizb+tahrir+women&btnG=Search hizb tahrir women] Google Images</ref>) although they defend the right of women to choose the wearing of a niqab.<ref name=DEFENDNIQAB>[http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=721&Itemid=184 Playing Politics with Communities: A Response from Dr Nazreen Nawaz] Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain</ref>
==my take==
They argue,<blockquote>"Women in the Khilafah are not regarded as inferior or second class citizens. Islam gave women the right to wealth, property rights, rights over marriage and divorce as well as a place in society. Islam established a public dress code for women – the Khimar and Jilbab in order to establish a productive society free from the type of negative and harmful relationships prevalent in the west."[http://www.khilafah.com/kcom/the-khilafah/issues/what-is-the-khilafah-caliphate.html]</blockquote>
 
===Non-Muslims===
ok, first off, you are both fairly new to wikipedia. you have both asked different outside people for help, maybe you should take the problem to the [[WP:MC|mediation committee]]. this whole things seems to stem from whether or not manx syndrome exists, and if it is still prevelant in the breed. from what i've read, yes, it exists, but no, it's not as common as it once was. just let the article say that. i'm not terribly good at dispute resolution, so the MC is probably a good idea if you can't sort it out yourselves. on a side note, i removed the link to your site, Karello, because linking to a breeder's site is considered advertisement and is not allowed. i also changed the description of the manx syndrome link to more closely resemble the name of the page. and, Karello, please do sign your comments with <nowiki>~~~~</nowiki>, it makes it easier for everyone involved. [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue]] [[User_talk:Lachatdelarue|(talk)]] 16:01, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 
In HuT's draft constitution for an Islamic state, non-Muslims may voice "complaints in respect to unjust acts performed by the rulers or the misapplication of Islam upon them," but may not serve in any of the ruling offices, such as the position of caliph, nor vote for these officials. "Every mature male and female Muslim, who is sane, has the right to participate in the election of the Khaleefah [head of state] and in giving him the pledge (ba'iah). Non-Muslims have no right in this regard."
==Karello's second reply to The JPS==
Hizb ut-Tahrir has argued that Muslims have a special responsibility to respect the rights of non-Muslims.
<blockquote>"The rights of Jews and other non-Muslims are enshrined within [[statuary]] Islamic Law (Sharia). These were laid down by the Prophet Muhammad (SAW) when he established the first Islamic State in [[Medina]] in the [[7th century]]. He (saw) said, "Whoever harms a [[dhimmi]] (non-Muslim citizen) has harmed me." Under subsequent caliphs, these rights were protected. During the reign of the second caliph - [[Umar bin al-Khattab]], some Muslims stole a piece of land belonging to a Jew and then constructed a mosque upon it. This clearly violated the rights of the Jew, so Umar ordered the demolition of the mosque and the restoration of the land to the Jew. "Non-Muslims in the khilafah (caliphate) will have established channels to air any grievances or denial of their rights. All citizens will be empowered with the right to speak out where necessary. Non-Muslims will enjoy an elevated status with respect and tolerance shown to their beliefs and places of worships. The Khilafah will look after the needs and protect the rights of all its citizens-Muslim, Jews and Christians."<ref name=ABRAHAMIC>[http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=253&Itemid=140 Minorities in the new Middle East of the Caliphate] Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain</ref></blockquote>
The above statement indicates a distinction between [[statutory]] Islamic law, and non-[[statutory]] Islamic law regarding the rights of non-Muslims.
 
===The West===
I think it's nice you've made a compromise with all the infromation that has been posted about the Manx breed however in removing most of what I've posted think there are a few things need to be edited. For example, cat registry orginazations do not describe the Manx breed cat as having a semi-hunched appearence. The description I entered is more correct "having a continuous arch from shoulders to rump giving the cat a rounded appearance." I'm checking with other breeders to see if the statement "It is very normal for cats to be tailless or have a shorter tail than usual when exposed to inbreeding, regardless of the race" is correct, I'll get back to you on this one, I don't breed anything except registered Manx cats. The word 'MANX' is plural like the words fish and deer it does not have "es" at the end of it this is improper grammar. Most Manx are not completely tailless, they are best KNOWN as being a tailless cat however, the ratio of taillessness can not be pin pointed, the taillessness is not what make them Manx breed cats. You have one part of the article stating Manx that are born with tails are docked and the next part stating what I said, Manx tails are not docked anymore, especially outside the US. In the "stumpy calico Manx" picture the calico cat says it's a tortie cat when you mouse over the word calico. A tortie colored cat does NOT have that much white on it in ANY cat registry!! A calico is a white cat with black and red patches I made that correction but EliasAlucard changed it back. If you want the article to have correct statements and insist on removing things I'm knowledgable about then PLEASE go to http://www.cfainc.org and look up this information yourselves. The Cat Fanciers' Association is the World's Largest Registry of Pedigreed cats (they say so on their page) I think they should know what a Manx cat's body, color and coat should look like is it that hard to refer to their description and remove the incorrect infromation from this article? I tried adding to this article more accurate information as a breeder I know to be correct however it keeps getting changed. If you won't believe my knowledge about this breed as a breeder then take theirs! The Bengal and Ocicats are VERY active cats, the Manx cat is not an active cat this statement is incorrect and give the reader the wrong impression about this breed. I'll stop here because as I go down the page there is information I've never came across or experienced in all the nine years I've been breeding and dealing with pedigreed manx cats! PS Just so you know, my cattery information was posted to the site as a soruce of my knowledge about the breed not to promote my site.
HT takes a strong stand against Western influence in the Muslim world. Its founder, Nabhani, has been described as preaching that "British plots in partiular and western imperialist conspiracies in general pervade the modern history of the Muslim world and ultimately explain its main lines of politcal evolution." <ref>[http://users.dickinson.edu/~commins/TaqiAl-dinAl-Nabhani.pdf Taqi al-Din al-Nabhani and the HT Party]</ref> In his book, ''The System of Islam,'' which is studied by all HT members, Nabhani describes the Western culture and its "agents" as the one thing standing in the way of resurgent Caliphate.
<BLOCKQUOTE>If it was not for influence of the deceptive Western culture and the oppression of its agents which will soon vanish, then the return to the ___domain of Islam in its ideology and ststem would be quicker than the blink of an eye.<ref>[http://www.khilafat.pk/28rajab/books/nidham.pdf system of islam] p.64</ref></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
Rather than the Muslim world lagging behind the rest of the world because of it failure to Westernize, its stagnation
==Hope this works...==
<BLOCKQUOTE>commenced the day [Muslims] abandoned this adherence to Islam and ... allowed the foreign culture to enter their lands and the Western concepts to occupy their minds.<ref>[http://www.khilafat.pk/28rajab/books/nidham.pdf system of islam] p.73</ref></BLOCKQUOTE>
 
[[User:Karello|Karello]] 22:07, Apr 1, 2005 (UTC) forgot to identify myself in the prior post, hope this works!
 
==i=Law didand some work...rights===
The draft constitution argues that "there is no such thing as a [[clergy]] in Islam", that "every Muslim has the right to perform [[ijtihad]]" (personal exertion to derive hold opinions in Islamic law), and that "every thing or object is permitted, unless there is an evidence of prohibition" in the [[Qur'an]]. It is incumbent on Muslims to implement the [[hudud]] law, divinely ordained capital punishment for certain crimes. HuT's constitution states that "every individual is [[innocent until proven guilty]]", "[[Due process|no person shall be punished without a court sentence]]" and that "[[torture]] is absolutely forbidden and whoever inflicts torture on anyone shall be punished." Article 7 of the constitution institutes capital punishment for ''[[ridda]]'' (see [[ridda]] article for various definitions). It maintains that under the caliphate, "Arabic is the language of Islam and the sole language of the state." The only sources of legislation to be considered [[divinity|divine]] & statutory, and therefore to be accepted without debate, according to Article 12, are those based upon fair interpretations of the [[Qur'an]], the [[Sunnah]], consensus ''([[ijma]])'', and legitimate analogies ([[Qiyas]]) from the previous three.
Article 186 of the draft constitution states: "The State is forbidden to belong to any organisation that is based on something other than Islam ''or'' which applies non-Islamic rules". They also view the [[UN]], the [[World Bank]], and the [[IMF]] and the [[Arab League]] as contradicting [[Islamic law]] and being oppressive to the developing world. Article 185 of the draft constitution states: "It is permitted to conclude good neighbouring, economic, commercial, financial, cultural and armistice treaties."
 
===Economy===
I did some work on the article, trying to make it more neutral and accurate. Some of things that have been mentioned as 'inaccurate' I left alone, because I don't know enough about the topic. The one thing that I know still needs to be done is the "Other Characteristics" section needs to be merged into other areas of the article, since much of it is repeat info, albeit in more detail. Also, references to calico cats link to tortoishell cat for a reason. The issue was discussed on the [[Talk:Tortoiseshell cat|Tortoisehll cat]] and the [[Talk:Cat|Cat]] articles. [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue]] [[User_talk:Lachatdelarue|(talk)]] 23:29, 1 Apr 2005 (UTC)
The draft constitution also details an economic system which allows private enterprise, but reserves public ownership of utilities, public transport, energy resources such as oil, health care, and unused farm land, similar to [[Socialism]]. It calls for use of the [[Gold Standard]], gold and silver coinage and gives quite specific instructions for the gold and silver weight of the coins, arguing
<blockquote>... it is the duty of the Khilafah State to make its currency in gold and silver and to work on the basis of gold and silver as it was during the time of the Messenger of Allah and his Khulafa'a after him...to fix the weight of dinars equal to the Shari'ah dinar or 4.25 grams (of Gold) for one dinar...the dirham has the weight of 2.975 grams (of Silver). The basis of gold and silver as currency is the only way to solve currency related economic problems and the high inflation rates that are common in the world, and to produce currency stability for rates of exchange and progress in international trade. ... Only by taking gold and silver as the standard, can the American control and the control of the dollar as an international currency, be demolished in international trade and world economies.<ref>[http://web.archive.org/web/20040704022600/http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/english/books/hizb-ut-tahrir/chapter_09.html The Necessity of money being in Gold and Silver ]</ref></blockquote>
 
===Defence===
==EliasAlucard's third reply==
Article 56 of the draft constitution of the proposed state describes [[conscription]] as a compulsory individual duty, for all citizens. Muslim males past the age of 15 would be obliged to undergo military [[conscription]] on the basis of this being a collective duty. Responsiblity for defense in the HT state would go to the ''Amir al-Jihad.''
I've made some more cleaning. Seriously Karello, stop removing calico/tabby links. They're there for a good reason, because if you check those inter wikilinks, they bring up the very subject that is linked from the Manx article. This is why I and everyone else are keep adding them back. So stop. Also, there are no such articles as those links you changed to, and probably won't be.
 
==The Anti-semitism controversy==
===Manx Syndrome===
In an article entitled "The Muslim Ummah will never submit to the Jews", Hizb ut-Tahrir stated on its website seven years ago:
Oh yeah, the Manx Syndrome, look, it doesn't matter how much you love this race and want it to be free of diseases/whatever, this syndrome exists. [http://www.google.se/search?q=Manx+Syndrome&sourceid=mozilla-search&start=0&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official Check this Google search for proof]. As much as it is a hard fact for you to accept, you must accept it. It's no bogus, that's for sure. I don't know why you got so much problem with doing so, could it be that customers are complaining about the disease after reading about it here on this very article? Also, I'm not in any way a Manx breeder, I just own two Manx kittens. And that's another thing; you might have bred many Manx cats, but even so, all of the Manx cats you've bred, that doesn't sum up the entire breed and everything known about it. If you don't recognize some of the aspects/traits that this breed has, that doesn't change the entire breed to something beyond Manx. Your conception of this cat breed isn't ''the'' [[universal]] standard of how a Manx should be in every single way. Cats are like humans; all of them are unique in their own way, in both behaviour and appearance.
<blockquote>...they insist on expelling more and more of the people of Palestine so that they can bring in more of the world's Jews. They are demolishing homes, confiscating land and property, imprisoning people, torturing them, breaking their bones and killing them...They violate agreements and are disloyal to the treaties they have signed. They violate the airspace and waters of Lebanon every day and with their arms they bomb its cities and villages. They have occupied the lands of Lebanon, Syria and Palestine, and they increase daily in their provocation and defiance to all the Arabs and Muslims.... In origin, no one likes the [[Jew]]s except the Jews. Even they themselves rarely like each other. He (in the Quran) said: "You would think they were united, but their hearts are divided" [TMQ 59:14] The [[United States|American]] people do not like the Jews nor do the [[Europe]]ans, because the Jews by their very nature do not like anyone else. Rather they look at other people as wild animals which have to be tamed to serve them. So, how can we imagine it being possible for any [[Arab]] or [[Muslim]] to like the Jews whose character is such? ... Know that the Jews and their usurping state in Palestine will, by the Help and Mercy of Allah, be destroyed "until the stones and trees will say: O Muslim, O Slave of Allah. Here is a Jew behind me so come and kill him." <ref name=NOJEWS>[http://archive.bibalex.org/web/20010305125154/hizb-ut-tahrir.org/english/leaflets/palestine31199.htm The Muslim Ummah will never submit to the Jews] Hizb ut-Tahrir</ref></blockquote>
 
In October 2002 a court in Denmark handed down a 60-day suspended sentence to Fadi Abdelatif, Hizb ut-Tahrir's spokesman in Denmark, after he was found guilty of distributing racist propaganda. The title of a leaflet he distributed was a quote from the [[Quran]]: "And Kill Them Wherever You Find Them, and turn them out from where they have turned you out." <ref name=DENMARK>[http://politics.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,15935,1543732,00.html Banned groups with roots in UK appeal to disaffected young Muslims], ''The Guardian''.</ref> The leaflet continued: "The Jews are a people of slander ... a treacherous people ... they fabricate lies and twist words from their right context."
===Bengal/Ocicat issue===
I did NOT write that Manx were equally active. The similar aspects are for instance, high intelligence, that they like water [[et cetera]]. Also, Manx cats chase each other like crazy. My two does all the time, and that, if anything is activeness. Also, The Manx Breeder FAQ confirms this. But hey, we don't know anything, since it's not unanimous with your conceptions, right? Please, be realistic. Just to be on the safe side, I'll quote it [[verbatim]] from this [http://www.fanciers.com/breed-faqs/manx-faq.html FAQ]: "'''It is rare for a Manx to "play" on the judging table however much they might chase toys and race about in your home.'''" And "'''They do like to chase each other, so hearing the thunder of furry feet is usually the disturbance the Manx owner is used to.'''" I completely agree with these two statements since I've had to put up with this nuisance for over six months now.
 
In January 2003, Hizb ut-Tahrir was barred in Germany from public activity on charges of spreading antisemitic propaganda and of being "hate preachers." Membership of the party is still permitted. German Interior Minister [[Otto Schily]] ruled that the group was "spreading hate and violence," and had called for the killing of Jews. <ref name=Lambroschini>Lambroschini, Sophie. [http://www.rferl.org/featuresarticle/2004/10/a9e085a9-a771-4e5c-b41d-16b3d7d1258f.html "Germany: Court Appeal By Hizb Ut-Tahrir Highlights Balancing Act Between Actions, Intentions"], Radio Free Europe, October 26, 2004.</ref> The charges originate from a conference at the [[Technical University of Berlin]], organized by a student society allegedly affiliated with Hizb ut-Tahrir. The furore was caused because the conference was attended by members of the [[neo-nazi]] [[National Democratic Party of Germany]] (NPD) sparking fears about an alliance between neo-Nazi groups and Islamists. Schily banned Hizb ut-Tahrir three months later for going "against the concept of international understanding" contained in the German constitution, a charge that has been used in the past against [[neo-Nazi]] groups. The [[High Court]] in Germany threw out a case to ban the NPD because a large percentage of the NPD's inner circle were undercover agents or informants of the German secret services, so the court found it impossible to decide which moves by the party were based on genuine party decisions and which were controlled by the secret services in an attempt to further justify a ban. ''(see [[National Democratic Party of Germany#The 2003 banning attempt|NDP 2003 banning attempt]])''
===P.S.===
I've organized the pictures to the best of my ability to fit in to the context of the content. I've also added another picture.
*[[User:EliasAlucard|EliasAlucard]]|[[User talk:EliasAlucard|Talk]] 12:11, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)
 
In July 2005 [[Dilpazier Aslam]], a 27-year-old British Muslim and trainee journalist with ''[[The Guardian]]'' lost his position with the newspaper when it was exposed he was a member of Hizb ut-Tahrir. Citing the anti-Semitic statement discovered on the party's website, ''Guardian'' executives decided that membership of Hizb ut-Tahrir was not compatible with membership of the newspaper's trainee scheme. Aslam refused to leave the group, saying he was not an antisemite and did not consider Hizb ut-Tahrir's website to be antisemitic. <ref name=GuardianAslam/> Dilpazier later sued for unfair dismissal and there was an out of court settlement <ref name=GuardianAslam/>
== Ever hear of Japanese Bobtails? ==
 
After allegations that party members had spread antisemitic propaganda, in 2004 the British [[National Union of Students]] imposed a [[No Platform]] order. <ref>[http://www.nusonline.co.uk/news/270231.aspx "NUS representative addresses government committee on campus incitement"], NUS Online.</ref> The party then resumed recruiting at British universities under the name "Stop Islamophobia." <ref>[http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-1827988,00.html "'Stealth' Islamists recruit students"] ''The Sunday Times'', 16 October 2005.</ref>
EliasAlucard, before you go any further posting your experiences and basing your knowledge of the Manx breed cat on your two domestic tailless cats I think you need to do a reality check. You can't in all fairness and honesty compare the actual Manx breed cat that originated on the Isle of Man to the tailless cats you own. You can't say for certain like a registered Manx breeder can they are actually true Manx cats with known ancestors from the Isle of Man, not based on them being tailless and "looking" like the breed. Again, I say the genetic mutation that happens in the Manx breed cat to make them tailless can happen in ANY CAT/ANY CAT, this does NOT make them Manx breed cats then. Only having descendants from the Isle of Man does. Many registered Manx and Manx on the Isle of Man look nothing like known Manx cats look like, they have long bodies and full tails however they ARE Manx cats still because their parents are known to be from the Isle of Man. In looking at the pictures of the cats you've posted (I admit I'm not an authority on everything but think I know a little more about the purebred Manx cat than those who don't breed it) your cats are semi-tailless cats with kinked, stumpy tails. It is certainly possible that your cats don't have ancestors from the Isle of Man at all behind them, just carry the same genetic mutation the Isle of Man cats have! My guess (and again I'm no authority here) is they are more likely to have Japanese Bobtail behind them than Manx, since Japanese Bobtails are best known for having stumpy tails with kinks in them! That's not to say Manx kittens tails haven't have kinks although, I've never seen it in mine still doesn't mean it hasn't happened. The short, kinked tail is one of the traits that distinguish the Manx from the JBT's in many cat registries around the world. JBT's also have higher hind legs in the back than in the front like the Manx due to their mutation but still they're not Manx cats two completely different breeds of cat.
However, at a recent NUS Policy conference, motion 804, the conference believed that;
<blockquote>
 
*24. A motion passed at 2004’s NUS annual conference falsely accused the Islamic political party Hizb ut-Tahrir (HT) of being racist and extremist. During the debate at conference, HT was wrongly accused of organising an event to celebrate the attacks in New York.
If I were you, I'd investigate the Japanese Bobtail breed. http://cfainc.org/breeds/profiles/japanese.html Many domestic tailless cat owners, vets and shelters have blamed the Manx breed for semi/tailless cats when in fact they were not actually Manx cats at all, most are just domestic tailless cats and have no link to the Isle of Man at all. If for instance, you have black hair, brown eyes and olive skin and "look" Italian, (nothing against Italians I have Italian ancestors in my blood) this does NOT actually in itself make you Italian UNLESS you have the ancestry in your blood from Italy.
*26. Contrary to allegations of sexism and racism, HT has members from both sexes and different races and who came from Christian, Hindu, Sikh, Jewish and Atheist backgrounds.
...Conference resolved:
*25. To remove Hizb ut-Tahrir from NUS’s no platform policy.<ref> NUS passed Policy: http://resource.nusonline.co.uk/media/resource/policy%20passed.doc </ref>
</blockquote>
 
'''Response'''
It is my sincere wish to educate others about the true Manx breed cat and not allow them to be decieved or mislead by people who are trying to make a fast buck. I hope I'm accomplishing that in all that I do with this breed and my posts. Maybe others reading these pages will learn and come to understand there is a difference between any tailless cat and a true Manx breed cat and it's NOT based on a "look". Accept no immitations!!! The Manx breed cat is simply a cat that is from the Isle of Man, that is in fact what makes them Manx cats, not being tailless or "looking" a particular way no matter what they're KNOWN for looking like!!!
 
In response, Hizb ut-Tahrir stated:
[[User:Karello|Karello]] 14:18, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)
<blockquote>We reject decisively the charge of anti-Semitism ... at the same time we decisively reject [[Zionism]] represented in the form of [[Israel]]...The state of Israel is founded upon a land that it took by force, after it drove out its people, both Muslim and [[Christian]]. This is injustice, which we will never accept from an Islamic perspective, regardless of the race of the perpetrators. In Palestine, Islam is in conflict with Israelis — not in their capacity as Jews who historically had lived alongside Muslims in peace and security for centuries — but in their capacity as occupiers and aggressors.</blockquote>
On [[August 15]], [[2005]] British executive committee member Abdul-Wahid explained why the material was removed from the party's websites:
 
<blockquote>Some who do challenge our political views often resort to partial understandings of individual texts that are detached from context — either of the Muslim world or of global history in general. For example, the war rhetoric prevalent in Europe fifty years ago was full of derogatory epithets and proud declarations, but these are no longer seen as appropriate.<p>
== enough ==
[[Winston Churchill]]'s "[[We shall fight on the beaches|fight them on the beaches]]"(speech) is relevant to [[Normandy]] in 1944, not [[Barbados]] in 2005; the language of "freedom" used in campaigns for independence today differs between [[Scotland]] and [[Aceh]]. It would be ridiculous to assume that [[rhetoric]] relevant to a population that sees itself under occupation is symptomatic of the viewpoint of Muslims generally, and Hizb-ut-Tahrir specifically, on all issues relating (say) to Jews and Americans. Yet that is all too often what we see in these so-called challenges to our political ideas. In fact, the decision to remove some of our overseas literature from our [[United Kingdom|British]] website was a considered response to the legitimate proposition that people who read it out of its context might see it as offensive. <ref name=WAHEED>[http://www.opendemocracy.net/conflict-terrorism/criticism_2755.jsp Hizb-ut-Tahrir’s distinction] OpenDemocracy.net</ref></blockquote>
 
==Position on terrorism==
The article is factually accurate, as far as i can determine. if you two still feel the need to argue points that don't pertain to this specific article, i.e. Elias's cats ancestry, please take it to private emails. the talk page of an article is not the place for it. you have both broken the [[WP:NPA|no personal attacks policy]] during the course of your discussions. please take it elsewhere. You both have made good additions to this article, and i hope you continue to work on wikipedia. [[User:Lachatdelarue|Lachatdelarue]] [[User_talk:Lachatdelarue|(talk)]] 15:06, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 
{{TotallyDisputed}}
===YES! Enough!===
Hey Karello, mail me if you want at '''eliasmaycry AT gmail DOT com''' and we can discuss this further. By the way, it's not a kink, she's just bending her tail, and that makes it appear as a kink, I can send you more pictures. And no, they're definitely not Japanese Bob-Tail cats; their mother was completely tailless, and so was one of their siblings. JBL cannot be tailless ;) I quote from the link you gave me: "'''Kittens are never born tailless, nor are they born with full tails.'''" Her brother has a complete tail. Anyway, mail me.
*[[User:EliasAlucard|EliasAlucard]]|[[User talk:EliasAlucard|Talk]] 18:00, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)
 
[[Craig Murray]], a former British Ambassador to Uzbekistan, claims that HuT wish to accomplish their aims not through violence - ''or'' through activism, which puzzles some - but through uniting the Arab world in "prayer". Some have interpreted this as meaning they advocate the conversion of the entire populace to Islam through theological debate and other nonviolent means, at which point there would theoretically be no opposition to Shariah law, and therefore no necessity for either violence or prior political representation in implementing it. Others have interpreted it more simply, assuming that it means they wish for a "miracle".
==Grow Up!==
You've been told to stop what your doing, this discussion page is better served providing valuable information to those who are looking to find information about this breed not your childishness. Don't post anything for me again here or elsewhere I will not reply!
 
Accusations by critics of HT's official moral support for violence have been limited to the Israeli-Palestinian issue. A BBC ''Newsnight'' program from 2003 quotes members of Hizb ut-Tahrir as calling [[suicide bombing]]s in Israel "legitimate" acts of "[[martyrdom]]."<ref name=BBCmartyrdom>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/3182271.stm "Hizb ut Tahrir"], BBC News, August 27, 2003.</ref> A 2006 article in the ''Guardian'' newspaper mentions the passing out of leaflets by Hizb ut-Tahrir supporters in Copenhagen also claiming suicide bombings in Israel are legitimate acts of martyrdom.
[[User:Karello|Karello]] 17:12, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)
<ref>[http://politics.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,1978581,00.html PM shelves Islamic group ban
]</ref>
A ''New Statesman'' article by [[Shiv Malik]] about the 2003 attempted suicide bomber in Israel; Omar Sharif, quotes an old friend who described him nine years earlier in [[1994]] as "heavily attending all, absolutely all, HT-organised circles" shortly after being exposed to HT in the first [[semester]] of University life in London. Shiv Malik claims "Sharif's e-mail inbox, examined by police after his death," shows an E-mail he received the day before his attempted attack, as being from 1924.org, a HT affiliated website which contained the words " '...destroy the hegemony of the colonialist powers." HT flatly denies that Sharif had any "affiliation whatsoever with Hizb ut-Tahrir" and says that "Despite extensive investigations by the police and security services, including legal proceedings against members of the Sharif family, no link to Hizb ut-Tahrir has ever been proven." <ref>[http://www.newstatesman.com/200604240017 NS Profile Omar Sharif]</ref>
 
In another New Statesman article, Ziauddin Sardar claims that that while HT "has not, strictly speaking, advocated violence ... it certainly preaches engagement with violence," <ref>[http://www.newstatesman.com/200511140010 Ziauddin Sardar explains the long history of violence behind Hizb ut-Tahrir]</ref>. Ariel Cohen of the conservative American [[think-tank]] the [[Heritage Foundation]] claims HT is "enabling the creation of an environment for armed struggle." Zeyno Baran of the [[Nixon Centre]] another conservative American think tank says, "Even if Hizb does not itself engage in terrorist acts, because of the ideology it provides, it acts like a conveyor belt for terrorists." While Shiv Malik says Hizb ut-Tahrir "has never been directly implicated in an act of violence" <ref name="allahandthecaliphate" /> he argues the idea that HT members may leave the party and move on to violent organizations "is not without foundation." He quotes unnamed intelligence sources saying, "Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, al-Qaeda's man in Iraq, is a former member of the Jordanian branch of Hizb. ... the al-Qaeda commander Khalid Sheikh Mohammed also spent time with the party."
==We need to get this straight==
I decreased the size of your picture of that judge. Why? Because all other pictures are of that size. Why should that certain picture be larger? Also, the Manx syndrome part, it's a subcategory that should be under Health. That's why it should have three = instead of two. And as for inbreeding, any cat can have a shortened tail as a direct result of inbreeding; they don't need to carry the Manx gene for that. Inbreeding is crazy, anything can happen, after all, the Manx cat got this through inbreeding, the Manx gene is a result of it. Trust me on this, I've had two cats that had shorter tails because of inbreeding and they didn't have anything to do with Manx. One more thing about pictures, you need to be on the safe side with the copyright part, you can't just upload them without permission. You sure that judge allows you to put the picture here? Maybe she doesn't want her face on Wikipedia. You never know, ask her. Oh and if anyone needs to grow up, then it's you; running to others and crying over your edits is just so immature. Don't you think the previous editors before you are a little pissed for you removing everything they wrote and just replaced it with your version of the entire story? That's like a waste of effort for them because you removed every single second they worked on the article. Everyone here share a consensus that the Manx syndrome exists, except you. I got Whiskas, Royal Canine, fanciers.com and tons of other sites/huge cat corporations backing this up. But hey, you know more right, since after all, you've bred the breed for nine years. We're all wrong. Please, accept for once that you can be wrong here. One last thing, before you run around to other people begging them to punish me, consider who it is that needs to be punished. I've done a lot more than you here on Wikipedia, although I am fairly new too in comparison with others. Very seldom have people changed what I've been adding to other articles. If anyone thinks he/she owns this article, then it's you for removing everything and making your own version of it. I'm just trying to preserve the integrity it had before you came waltzing in here and changed everything. And mind you, I had barely written anything on it before that, so I can pretty much say in an impartial and unbiased way that it was better before.
===P.S.===
Felidae under see also is good, if the other cat breeds don't have it, then they should in my opinion. People in general don't know what felidae is. One last thing, I know more about my own cats than you do. You haven't seen 'em. I know they're Manx. Even if they aren't 100% Manx (such a thing doesn't exist by the way), they most definitely do carry a lot of Manx genetics.
*[[User:EliasAlucard|EliasAlucard]]|[[User talk:EliasAlucard|Talk]] 21:45, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)
 
Other experts deny HT is involved in terrorism. Singapore University terrorism expert Dr Rohan Gunaratna describes Hizb ut-Tahrir as an extremist organisation, not a terrorist organisation. HT, he says,
==Talk here==
Look, your tabby picture has a higher resolution than the others because it's in the breed table. Stop posting on ''Lachatdelarue's'' talk page about this article, if you've got something to discuss, say it here on the Manx talk page where it belongs. ''Lachatdelarue'' isn't responsible for everything concerning this article and I think you should stop overloading him with tasks; the man has a life. Also, that judge picture is redundant if anything. Please tell me what it shows that is of any importance to the breed Manx? Acknowledge it, you're just proud that your Manx cat won some competition and want to show off; no one cares. You can barely see the cat, the picture is of very tiny resolution, an old lady no one cares about isn't of any importance to the article. It shows more of her than the actual cat. Is the article about her or the cat? She didn't create the breed in any way, no matter how many Manx cats she has judged back and forth. I don't own the article, I don't think I own it either. If anyone does, then it's you; you've done more edits on it than anyone else. You've removed most of the parts everyone else had written. That is what I call "ownage". And why remove felidae from see also just because other cat breed articles don't have it? Do you believe that they are complete? No article here is complete. Even if YOU of all people know what felidae is, not everyone does. People that don't have English as their native language don't know what felines are, let alone felidae. Also, what you consider inaccuracies, doesn't necessarily make it inaccurate. You stated that the Manx syndrome doesn't exist, whilst a bunch of other cat sites allege that it does. I take their word any day over yours, and that just proves how much knowledge you've got about this breed (or lack thereof). I don't care if you're a breeder. I don't care how many years you've put into your life to this breed. Here on Wikipedia, you're just a member that should use very good sources. Using a source like "I'VE BRED THIS BREED FOR NINE YEARS, I KNOW ANYTHING AND EVERYTHING ABOUT THIS BREED!" etc, isn't a confirmable source. I can make up lies (not saying that you are) about how long I've bred cats, and that I am a scientist of animals etc. The sources I've brought from huge cat sites render your statements about Manx syndrome completely inaccurate. And this [http://www.manxcats.com/myths.htm site] as an accredited source is higly questionable; they're Manx breeders, they are most likely biased/partial toward the breed because they probably love it. I trust impartial cat sites that don't have anything to do with the breed except making food for it more than them. I don't need to breed cats in order to have knowledge about the species, I don't even need to own this cat breed, (pure-breed or not), all I need to do is to read from credible sources like Whiskas.com, so stop feeling superior.
 
<BLOCKQUOTE> actively promotes dismantling the state of Israel, attacking the United states, but in terms of actually conducting terrorist attacks it has refrained from doing so.<ref>[http://au.news.yahoo.com/070110/2/120pc.html Sydney Council refuses HT group use of town hall]</ref></BLOCKQUOTE>
P.S. If you're going to whine about someone removing/changing your edits on this article, think of what you've done to all the previous edits.
*[[User:EliasAlucard|EliasAlucard]]|[[User talk:EliasAlucard|Talk]] 12:46, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC)
 
'''USA Government Position'''
As an impartial outsider to this: I don't like the picture of the judge. As important as I'm sure she's considered by enthusiasts, she's simply not notable enough for inclusion in an encyclopedia. Please consider replacing this image with one where a Manx dominates. [[User:The JPS|The JPS]] 13:38, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 
Global Security has stated that:
The JPS, thank you. I hope you don't mind me moving your last post down a little, it's just for fitting the order of this talk page. I personally don't have anything against Karello's pictures. Some of them can be very good, and I've checked her site. If she has any good pictures (and she does), then I think she should use one of those. But seriously, this judge picture, that's what I've been saying, it's not a good picture, or at least not eligible for an encyclopedia. It would be wrong of me to say that she has only made this article worse, no, she hasn't. Thanks to her, this article has been improving and been on the move. But to say that she has only made it better would be a lie in my opinion. Some things better left untouched, because they were good already; ''ain't broke, don't fix it'', you know? I offered her another way to solve this, because I think this is too time-consuming by doing it here... but she basically spat in my face. What am I supposed to do? Also, I don't think it's cool to come with arguments like "I'm a breeder, I know more than you!" etc... sure, in some aspects, she very well might do that. But it's an insult to me and everyone else working on this article. We've got brains too, we can catch up and learn very fast on something we don't know anything about thanks to modern technology like [[Internet]]. Also, the breed table picture is good, but it needs to be cropped a little on the borders for better fitting to the breed table, and it would be very good if she could GFDL it, so it can be more distributed. I've GFDL'ed mine.
<blockquote>"The United States Government is continuing to monitor Hizb ut-Tahrir. Despite the statements of governments of the region, the United States has found no clear ties between Hizb ut-Tahrir and terrorist activity. Hizb ut-Tahrir has not been proven to have involvement in or direct links to any recent acts of violence or terrorism. Nor has it been proven to give financial support to other groups engaged in terrorism. Because of that, it falls outside the definitions used by the United States and others to designate a terrorist group."<ref name=MONITORING>[http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hizb-ut-tahrir.htm Hizb ut-Tahrir al-Islami (Islamic Party of Liberation)] Global Security</ref></blockquote>
*[[User:EliasAlucard|EliasAlucard]]|[[User talk:EliasAlucard|Talk]] 19:19, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC)
 
'''UK Government Position'''
:I'm going to agree with JPS on this, but I would also like to see the both of you calm down a bit. Neither of you are being particularly [[Wikipedia:Civility|civil]] to one another and discussing each others personal traits is clearly not moving this issue forward. Try to stick to just the facts of the matter and try don't dwell on who said what.
:Karello, how about replacing the picture of the judge holding the cat with one that features mainly a cat? I'm sure you could pick another pictures that would be more suitable for this article. [[User:Karmosin|Peter Isotalo]] 22:12, Apr 3, 2005 (UTC)
:: I agree. Best without the "judge" pic (and remember [[Wikipedia:Civility]]). [[User:Matt Crypto|&mdash; Matt <small>Crypto</small>]] 22:19, 3 Apr 2005 (UTC)
I'll do my best to behave from now on, that's a promise.
*[[User:EliasAlucard|EliasAlucard]]|[[User talk:EliasAlucard|Talk]] 00:41, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)
 
According to a leaked unpublished government report produced for Tony Blair, revealed to [[The Guardian Newspaper]] printed on 8th August 2005, the prime minister has been advised that the party is not involved in violence or terrorism. A paper called ‘Young Muslims and Extremism’, was prepared for Mr Blair on the orders of the home and foreign secretaries. It says: <blockquote>"Most of the structured organisations, e.g. Hizb ut-Tahrir, will not directly advocate violence. Indeed membership or sympathy with such an organisation does not in any way presuppose a move towards terrorism."</blockquote> The document adds that young people attracted to terrorism may shy away from HT because they do not espouse violence, and would be seen as only engaged in ''"pointless pontification and debate"''. [[UK]] [[Foreign and Commonwealth Office]] Minister [[Bill Rammell]] agrued that;
==Comments==
{{cquote| "We have yet to see convincing evidence that Hizb ut-Tahrir as an organization advocates violence or terrorism. Nor are we aware of any co-operation between it and Al Qaeda." <ref>UK FCO Minister Bill Rammell, available from [[Hansard]], 19/4/04 & [http://www.petitiononline.com/HTban/]</ref>}}
Eliass do not address me, I will not reply as I have stated in prior posts. It's obvious we're on two different levels when it comes to the Manx cat and ones knowledge of it, mine is based on the registered breed and yours is not.
 
'''Explicit Condemnation of The September 11th Attacks'''
To The JPS, Peter Isotalo and Matt Crypto who commented about the picture I posted. It's a very sad day when a picture of one of the oldest living Manx breeders known, judging a perfect example of the Manx is not worthy of being posted in this encyclopedia to represent the breed, herself, the breeder and The Cat Fanciers' Association. She's notable enough to have bred and judged registered Manx cats for more than 40 years, bred more than 35 Grand Champion Manx, be shown on the television show "The Animal Planet", written and assisted writing the breed standard for The Cat Fanciers Association (which is the world's largest cat registy), provided articles for magazines and books on the breed ( I could go on and on on her accomplishments with the Manx) yet isn't worthy to be listed on this site, what standards are you going by here? If people truly do not know anything about this breed as has been stated, what basis do they then have to edit and monitor it's content as to what is acceptable and what is not accurate? Makes one wonder if they don't know what is truth and what is not. I would be more than happy to replace the picture in question ( I have better pictures of Barbara judging my Manx that are higher resolution and show more of the cat like you've suggested) however, I don't think this is about another picture. It's about not allowing registered breeders the chance to teach others the truth that any tailless cat can not be considered a Manx cat. I think you should also know, although I was asked to post a new picture it's already been replaced...guess who! Hint: not me! Are you now saying that I should go replace that picture with mine, where does this end? What's the sense of everyone offering their opinions if what they suggest is not given the chance to be followed through? Who's job is it to make sure what's being posted is accurate and to block or stop people from doing as they were not told to do anyway?
 
HuT issued a leaflet on [[September 18]], [[2001]] after the [[September 11, 2001 attacks]] on [[New York]] stating:
As to those who admit they don't know enough about this breed to know what is and isn't correct, now's your chance to learn if you truly wish to. To learn more about the Manx breed cat from someone who has also been a long time breeder for 25 years, has a BS Eng.Phy., MS Ed, is President of the American Manx Club, technical consultant to Karen Commings for Manx Cats: (Complete Pet Owners Manual), (Barons, 1999) and Joanne Mattern for The Manx Cat, (Capstone Press, 2003, as well as being highly respected by Manx breeders and considered an authority on this breed, get in touch with Sherman Ross. His email address is openly displayed on the American Manx Club site. (tahame@juno.com) I'm sure Sherman would be more than happy to speak to anyone about this breed, address their questions and put to rest the MTYH of Manx Syndrome and other genetic stories about this breed that are incorrect. I'm not concerned about letting people know the Manx breed has genetic limitations, I have warnings about it on my website as well. Reputable breeders would never try to hide, cover up or decieve potential owners from the facts. However, I am very passionate about people knowing the "term" Manx Syndrome is just that, a "term". It is what is used by some as a description for illnesses seen by some in the Manx breed cat. However, the illnesses that are covered by the "term" happen in other breeds of animals as well as humans such as spina bifida, incontinence and rectal prolaspe, they're not only seen in the Manx breed. Therefore, those who use it are misrepresenting the "term" and breed. Also, stating "inbreeding causes shortened tails", is not accurate. Sherman tells me if this were true every registered breed of cat would produce some foreshortened tails. When was the last time you saw a bobtailed Persian, Korat, Occicat, etc? Here's where I'll end my comments, I've given those reading this discussion page enough to think over for now, do get in touch with Sherman he's a wonderful human being, loves the Manx breed and is just as passionate about it as I am.
<blockquote>The rules of this Message forbids any aggression against civilian non-combatants. They forbid killing of children, the elderly and non-combatant women even in the battlefield. They forbid the hijacking of civilian aeroplanes carrying innocent civilians and forbid the destruction of homes and offices which contain innocent civilians. All of these actions are types of aggression which Islam forbids and Muslims should not undertake such actions."<ref name=LEAFLET>[http://www.petitiononline.com/HTban/petition.html Banning non-violent Hizb-ut-Tahrir (HT), is the real threat to the British way of life] Petition Online</ref></blockquote>
 
'''Explicit Condemnation of July 7th Bombings in London'''
[[User:Karello|Karello]] 06:32, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)
 
The day after the [[7th July attacks]] in London, the party issued a nationwide leaflet which said:
:The point is, Karello, that we all must keep a [[W:NPOV|Wikipedia:Neutral point of view]]. I am not questioning her knowledge and expertise. However, there are many people in the world with knowledge and expertise. Although many of my colleagues have published academic work and are very well known and respected within their fields, they are '''not''' suitable for inclusion in wikipedia. ''As much as an authority they are considered within their field, no one cares outside of it.'' That is what the rest of the internet is for.
<blockquote>"At a time when fingers will be pointed at us from the wider community we need to come together as a community with one voice. Yes, the rules of Islam do not allow the harming of innocent civilians.<ref name=LEAFLET>[http://www.petitiononline.com/HTban/petition.html Banning non-violent Hizb-ut-Tahrir (HT), is the real threat to the British way of life] Petition Online</ref> </blockquote>
:I actually don't even care about Manx cats. Although wikipedia usually provides a good source for things I haven't even considered learning about, you and Elias build walls of texts that are very difficult to read. Consider using paragraphs more (I see you are beginning to do so!). Taking a break away from your PC before you hit reply is also a useful tactic.
Dr. Imran Waheed, spokesman for Hizb ut-Tahrir, said after the July 2005 London bombings that he would "condemn what happened in London only after there is the promise from Western leaders to condemn what they have done in Falluja and other parts of Iraq and in Afghanistan."<ref name=NOCONDEMN>[http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/10/international/europe/10qaeda.html?ex=1171342800&en=9e77274863ef7360&ei=5070 For a decade, London thrived as a busy crossroads of terror] The New York Times</ref>
:[[User:The JPS|The JPS]] 07:45, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 
'''Religious duty to report terrorists'''
::For starters, I will not contact her (that expert you mentioned) for the reasons I've previously stated why (I suspect her of bias toward Manx because, as you just put it, she loves the breed). I don't know about the rest of the crowd here though. Second, you just said that ''fanciers.com is the largest cat registry'', yet you oppose what it says on other aspects like Manx syndrome and you claim that their Manx article is out of date. Sounds like a glaring contradiction to me. Third, I've had two cats that were born out of inbreeding. They didn't have anything to do with Manx, Japanese Bobtail cats or whatever. One of them had a short tail, and one of their siblings which wasn't mine was completely tailless. This happens with inbreeding. There are cats even born without [[skeleton]] as a direct result of exposure to inbreeding. Like I've said before: ''"inbreeding is crazy; anything can happen."'' I kid you not. Fourth, that old lady didn't fit with the picture here, everyone agreed. Want to perpetuate her history to mankind of everything she has done? Then I suggest you start her own article since she seems to be a ''cat celebrity'', if she's so worthy of it. I doubt anyone would ever read it and care though. Case in point: we can't just fill wikipedia with everything that has a vague connection to the article; that would make the articles very-so-not-interesting to read. There has to be a touch of quality. Fifth, it might be a big issue for you to have registered Manx, it's nothing special to me though. I see cats as cats, registered/pure-breed or not. That is all. Last but not least, don't reply, you're reading anyway and that means I'm somehow reaching you. By the way, why is it so important for you to liquidate the "term" Manx syndrome? Clearly, it exists because the word is found almost everywhere where the breed Manx is mentioned; just search [[Google]] for Manx syndrome and you'll see.
*[[User:EliasAlucard|EliasAlucard]]|[[User talk:EliasAlucard|Talk]] 10:27, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)
 
Dr. Abdul-Wahid, British spokesman for the party said members should report acts of violence or terror to the police as a religious duty:
==Resolution==
<blockquote>"If any Muslim citizen possesses information indicating an imminent act of violence, then he has an Islamic duty to prevent this from taking place, even if this means reporting to the police. Masood’s article was the first time I had ever seen a view to the contrary presented in the media, and it was sad that he did not check his facts, and instead made assumptions – a frequent problem when people talk or write about Hizb ut-Tahrir."<ref>[http://www.opendemocracy.net/conflict-terrorism/criticism_2755.jsp], OpenDemocracy, August 15, 2005.</ref></blockquote>
Both of your quests for accuracy are being lost in a barrage of personal insults and self promotion of knowledge and experience. Please now do the following. List each dispute within subsections and each '''briefly''' write your take on it and internet sources to support you.
 
'''Al-Qaida condemn Hizb ut-Tahrir'''
<nowiki>
====Fact in dispute here, written neutrally====</nowiki>
<p><nowiki>
:</nowiki>Karello or Elias' version in one or two '''succinct'''<nowiki> sentences maximum. List a maximum of three verifiable sources (ideally from the www) to support your claim. And sign and date them. ~~~~</nowiki>
<p><nowiki>
:</nowiki>The opposing view in one or two '''succinct''' <nowiki>sentences maximum. List a maximum of three verifiable sources (ideally from the www) to support your claim. And sign and date them. ~~~~
</nowiki>
<p>
'''Rules'''
*Keep it away from the personal. You have both asserted your experiences and knowledge. Move on.
*Keep it short and near to the form you want it to be in the article.
 
The [[Groupe Islamique Combattant Marocain]] or the [[Moroccan Islamic Combatant Group]], a terrorist organization affiliated with Al Qaeda, issued a press release (No.5) with a photocopy of a book written by Al Qaeda members entitled "Une nouvelle vision des débiles et des modérés" or "A New Insight Into Weak and Moderate (Muslims)" listing HT's stance against violence as weak, and accusing it of being moderate, rather than strictly religious.<ref> La Gazette Du Maroc [http://www.lagazettedumaroc.com/articles.php?id_artl=3532&n=339&r=2&sr=715], translated here: [http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.lagazettedumaroc.com%2Farticles.php%3Fid_artl%3D3532%26n%3D339%26r%3D2%26sr%3D715&langpair=fr%7Cen&hl=en&ie=UTF8] </ref>
[[User:The JPS|The JPS]] 08:30, 4 Apr 2005 (UTC)
 
'''Student support'''
 
According to a comment in [[The Times]] by Ali Hussain, The National Union of Students ([[NUS]]) in the United Kingdom said Hizb ut-Tahrir members are "supporting terrorism and publishing material that incites racial hatred."<ref name=NUSSUPORT>[http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/student/news/article579055.ece?token=null&offset=0 'Stealth' Islamists recruit students] The Times Online</ref>. However, at an NUS Policy conference, motion 804, the conference believed that;
<blockquote>
*24. A motion passed at 2004’s NUS annual conference falsely accused the Islamic political party Hizb ut-Tahrir (HT) of being racist and extremist. During the debate at conference, HT was wrongly accused of organising an event to celebrate the attacks in New York.
*25. HT is an intellectual and political entity that seeks to changes people thoughts through intelligent discussion and debate.
*27. HT has condemned the terrorism, which occurred in New York in 2001, Madrid in 2004 and London in 2005.
*30. Government proposals to ban non-violent Islamist organisations such as Hibz ut-Tahrir (HT), combined with the failure to address the fascist BNP reveals the hypocrisy and Islamophobia behind the ‘anti-terror’ measures.
*31. There is a mass support from a wide range of organisations against the possible state ban on HT, including FOSIS, The Muslim Association of Britain, The Muslim Council of Britain, Respect, Stop the War Coalitions, Yvonne Ridley and others....
...Conference resolved:
*25. To remove Hizb ut-Tahrir from NUS’s no platform policy.<ref> NUS passed Policy: http://resource.nusonline.co.uk/media/resource/policy%20passed.doc </ref>
</blockquote>
 
==Hizb ut-Tahrir by region==
====Manx Syndrome====
:'''Elias:''' The threat of Manx Syndrome still exixts [http://www.manx-cats.com/manx-cats-breeders-rescues.htm] [http://www.best-cat-art.com/Manx-cats.html] [http://www.fanciers.com/breed-faqs/manx-faq.html]. [rewrite of [[User:EliasAlucard|EliasAlucard]]|[[User talk:EliasAlucard|Talk]] 10:42, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)
 
The [[Heritage Foundation]] says the organization is active in 40 countries with 5,000 to 10,000 "hardcore" members and tens of thousands of followers.<ref name=Cohen>Cohen, Ariel. [http://www.heritage.org/Research/RussiaandEurasia/BG1656.cfm "Hizb ut-Tahrir: An Emerging Threat to U.S. Interests in Central Asia"], The Heritage Foundation, May 30, 2003.</ref> The [[Foreign Affairs Journal]] claims a report that argues Hizb ut-Tahrir "dominates the British Scene" with some eight and a half thousand members in the [[United Kingdom]]; "while the [[Muslim Association of Britain|MAB]] could only boast 1000" <ref> "The Moderate Muslim Brotherhood", Foreign Affairs Journal, p.120, vol. 86 no. 2, march / April 2007 by Robert S. Leiken and Steven Brooke [http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20070301faessay86208/robert-s-leiken-steven-brooke/the-moderate-muslim-brotherhood.html]</ref> It is [[proscribe]]d in Russia,<ref>[http://www.arabtimesonline.com/arabtimes/kuwait/Viewdet.asp?ID=8534&cat=a 'Terror' list out; Russia tags two Kuwaiti groups], Arab Times</ref> and in some Muslim countries, but is permitted to operate in the more liberal Muslim nations.<ref name=ARABLEGAL>[http://jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2370234 Hizb-ut-Tahrir's Growing Appeal in the Arab World] Jamestown Foundation</ref> It had a ban lifted on it by the Lahore High Court in Pakistan <ref>High Court rules ruling that distribution of pamphlets carrying criticism of the government does not entail terrorism. [http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.info/english/pakistan/2005/april1005.htm] </ref> <ref> High Court cancels detention orders of six members of Hizb-ut-Tahrir [http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.info/english/pakistan/2005/march1105.htm]</ref>, and it survived proposed bans in Australia and the UK after clearance from the intelligence services and police.<ref name=Morris>Morris, Nigel. [http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article1183364.ece "PM forced to shelve Islamist group ban"], ''The Independent'', July 18, 2006.</ref><ref name=GuardianAslam>[http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,1534499,00.html "Background: the Guardian and Dilpazier Aslam"], ''The Guardian'', July 22, 2005.</ref>
:'''Karello:''' ''[Follow the format and write your version here.]''
 
HuT members have not won elections in any government. It is therefore impossible to establish with certainty what its position in terms of international relations, in practice, would be. However, publications on HuT's media websites show an anti-Western sentiment that has been characteristic of most Islamist movements.
====Manx stumpy kinked tail====
:'''Elias:''' Short quote: ''"Stumpy Manx have between 1 & 6 tail vertebrae. This is usually straight, but can sometimes be kinked or even curled in a bobtail like fashion."'' Although this is on Manx rats, the very same thing can happen with Manx cats. ''[http://carawatha.tripod.com/manx_rats.htm]'' [[User:EliasAlucard|EliasAlucard]]|[[User talk:EliasAlucard|Talk]] 12:02, Apr 4, 2005 (UTC)
 
===In the West===
:'''Karello:''' ''[Follow the format and write your version here.]''
[[Image:Hizb ut-Tahrir demo kbh.jpg|thumb|Hizb ut-Tahrir demonstrating in Copenhagen.]]
 
====Third dispute hereDenmark====
:'''Elias:'''
 
The movement is legal in Denmark. In August 2006 a Danish court sentenced Fadi Abdelatif, Hizb ut-Tahrir's spokesman in Denmark, to three months in prison for threats against the Danish Prime Minister [[Anders Fogh Rasmussen]]. Party officials say the leaflet distributed by Abdelatif referred to the need to remove the dictators of the Muslim world who had not supported the Muslims of Iraq, and that it made no reference to the Danish prime minister. <ref name=FADI>[http://www.turkishweekly.net/comments.php?id=2025 Russia: Division over Hizb-ut-Tahrir] Turkish Weekly Opinion</ref>
:'''Karello:'''
 
In 2007 Hizb ut Tahrir caused an uproar in Denmark when [[Berlingske Tidende]] reported that a kindergarten in [[Copenhagen]] had being run according to the movement's strict Islamic principles.<ref>[http://www.cphpost.dk/get/102231.html Islamic group took over nursery school], Copenhagen Post, June 18, 2007</ref> Several well known imams in Copenhagen attended a convention of Hizb ut Tahrir and announced that they are willing to work together towards mutual goals. This move attracted criticism.<ref>[http://www.berlingske.dk/indland/artikel:aid=911778 Den ny muslimske alliance], Berlingske Tidende, June 24, 2007 {{da icon}}</ref>
 
====Australia====
 
Despite being relatively new in Australia compared with its decades-long existence elsewhere, Hizb ut Tahrir has become a prominent voice for Muslim concern in Australia{{Fact|date=March 2007}}, holding regular public lectures which typically attract 200-300 people once every few months{{Fact|date=March 2007}}, as well as distributing leaflets outside Mosques on a regular basis{{Fact|date=March 2007}}.
 
Hizb ut Tahrir Australia first received public scrutiny in Australia after a 2003 lecture on the impending Iraq war, where senior member Ashraf Doureihi spoke about Western involvement in Muslim countries.{{Fact|date=March 2007}}
 
Following the July 7 2005 attacks on the London train system{{Fact|date=March 2007}}, Hizb ut Tahrir in Australia faced scrutiny of its activities in Australia. The party survived a proposed ban in Australia after clearance from the [[Australian Security Intelligence Organisation]].<ref>[http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2005/08/11/1123353444844.html Islamic group to fight on against banning moves] [[The Age]]</ref>
 
The party planned its first '''Khilafah conference''' in [[Sydney]] on the [[27 January]] [[2007]]. The planned conference led to many inaccurate newspaper reports, particularly from the big Australian [[tabloid]] newspaper the [[Herald Sun]], that the party was linked to the [[July 2005 London bombings]][http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21132708-661,00.html], that it wanted to establish Islamic law in Australia [http://www.risala.org/khilafah-conference/], and that it was banned in Britain.[http://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,21134535-1702,00.html]. Politicians in the opposition party called on the local and federal governments not to grant visas to foreign speakers attending, and to re-consider the policy of not proscribing Hizb ut-Tahrir. The demands for a ban were rejected by Australian [[Attorney General]] [[Philip Ruddock]], who said he did not have sufficient evidence to warrant banning the group.
 
<blockquote>"I think it's time that Mr Watkins puts up or shuts up in relation to Hizb ut-Tahrir. If he has evidence that he believes warrants its proscription he should make it available to the Commonwealth so it can be considered."<ref name=aussies_jihad>[http://www.news.com.au/heraldsun/story/0,21985,21132708-661,00.html Aussies called to jihad] [[Herald Sun]]</ref></blockquote>
 
Hizb ut-Tahrir members orginially planned to hold the conference in [[Bankstown, New South Wales|Bankstown]]'s [[Town Hall]], but the Sydney council cancelled it.<ref>[http://www.theage.com.au/news/National/Council-refuses-group-use-of-town-hall/2007/01/10/1168105040471.html Council refuses group use of town hall] [[The Age]]</ref> Hizb ut-Tahrir secured another ___location the next day on [[28 January]]. During the conference Palestinian [[Sheikh]] Issam Amera quoted a [[hadith]], saying,
 
<blockquote>"Whoso comes to you while your affairs have been united under [[Caliph|one man]], intending to divide your staff or dissolve your unity, kill him."''<ref>Narrated in [[Sahih Muslim]])[http://www.islamic-world.net/islamic-state/source.htm] Islamic world</ref></blockquote>
 
The [[Herald Sun]] quoted him as saying, "If you people are united and a third person comes along and tries to incite disunity . . . kill him...," "Muslims are not unique in doing so, as most nations kill those charged with treason...," labelling incitement to [[civil war]] in a [[Caliphate]] [[treason]]. Spokesperson of Hizb ut-Tahrir Indonesia [[Ismail Yusanto]] said, "If the capital [of the Islamic state] fell and was [[occupied]] by the invading forces, the rest [of the Caliphate] must be involved in an all-out war against the occupiers..." He reiterated Hizb ut-Tahrir's proposed policy on military [[conscription]] by the Caliphate to defend itself once established with a "Call for all military-aged Muslims to obtain military training and prepare for jihad."
 
The [[Sydney Morning Herald]] reported that Yusanto was invited to Canberra to speak at a security conference by the [[Federal Government]] at a conference sponsored by the Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade ([[DFAT]]) in August 2004. This was organized by the [[think-tank]] [[The Council for Security Cooperation in the Asia Pacific]], and was opened by [[Foreign Minister]] [[Alexander Downer]]. Yusanto was also reported to be a regular guest at the Australian [[embassy]] in [[Jakarta]]. A paper reviewing the 2004 conference says Yusanto took part in an "enlightening discussion" with participants on the issue of the creation of an Islamic state.[http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/governments-row-over-muslim-group/2007/01/29/1169919245735.html]
 
Conference spokesman Wassim Doureihi said the work of Hizb ut-Tahrir was not to change the political landscape in Australia. He said, "It is because of Islam and my allegiance to Islam that I am responsible for ensuring to do what I can to protect the safety and security of all peoples in this country and beyond."[http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,21133176-5006784,00.html]
 
[[Morris Iemma]] Premier of New South Wales and MP for Lakemba, is quoted as saying "This is an organisation that is basically saying that it wants to declare war on Australia, our values and our people." The distinction between trying to establish a caliphate in the Muslim world, and not in Australia, according to the ''Sydney Morning Herald''; "was lost on Mr Iemma, the MP for Lakemba where the conference was held, and where he is facing a challenge by Muslim candidates in the state election." [[Attorney General]] [[Philip Ruddock]] responded that the local government of Iemma should "stop playing politics and if it had any evidence helpful to the security agencies, it should give it to them."[http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/leaders-disagree-on-muslim-ban/2007/01/28/1169919213299.html]
 
Despite a continued presence by Hizb ut-Tahrir in Australia seeking to articulate the Islamic position on many of the aforemnentioned issues, a claim was aserted that there remains a clear agenda by both the Australian government and media personel alike, to blur the line between political Islam and political violence. This constant and systematic campaign has sought to distort the clear unambiguous message which Hizb ut-Tahrir delivers, denoting the intellectual bankrupsy of the proponents of such commentaries. Not withstanding this, Hizb ut-Tahrir Australia issued a media release (11 Jan 2007 Risala.org) strongly rejecting the baseless allegations perpetuated against it.
 
The [[Sydney Morning Herald]] said that,
 
<blockquote>"Concerns about terrorism, violent crime and integration have prompted a bidding war between NSW Labor and the Opposition about who can sound tougher on Muslims, a theme that is expected to continue until poll day on March 24."</blockquote>[http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/leaders-disagree-on-muslim-ban/2007/01/28/1169919213299.html]</blockquote>
 
A leading Australian Muslim and former chairman of the Federal Government's Muslim Community Reference Group, Ameer Ali, has said the government was right to allow Hizb ut-Tahrir to practice in Australia.[http://www.radioaustralia.net.au/news/stories/s1835165.htm] [[Crikey]] reported in an article entitled ''No need to be alarmed about Hizb ut-Tahrir'' that the opposition [[ALP]] "clearly wants to look tougher than the government on national security. But it risks alienating much of its support base in some Muslim circles by picking on a group many Muslims regard as harmless."[http://www.crikey.com.au/Politics/20070129-We-neednt-be-alarmed-about-Hizb-ut-Tahrir.html]
 
====United Kingdom====
 
Hizb ut-Tahrir also survived a proposed ban in the UK after clearance from the intelligence services and police.<ref name=Morris>Morris, Nigel. [http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article1183364.ece "PM forced to shelve Islamist group ban"], ''The Independent'', July 18, 2006.</ref>. After the [[7 July 2005 London bombings]] Tony Blair announced the [[Her Majesty's Government|British government]]'s intention to ban the organization under new legislation.<ref name=BLAIRBAN>[http://politics.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,15935,1543385,00.html Full text: The Prime Minister's statement on anti-terror measures] The Guardian</ref> Hizb ut-Tahrir spokesman Imran Waheed said, "The move is a perilous route that is harming community relations and could lead to civil unrest comparable to that which affected the black community."<ref name=CIVILUNREST>[http://politics.guardian.co.uk/homeaffairs/story/0,11026,1544271,00.html Islamic radicals warn of city riots] The Guardian</ref> According to ''[[The Independent]]'' Blair "shelved the ban after warnings from police, intelligence chiefs, and civil liberties groups that it is a non-violent group, and driving it underground could backfire."<ref name=NOBLAIRBAN>[http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/article1183364.ece PM forced to shelve Islamist group ban] The Independent</ref> According an alleged leaked government report produced for Tony Blair, quoted in ''[[The Guardian]]'', <ref>Dodd, Vikram et al. [http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1544648,00.html "Islamist clerics face treason charges"], ''The Guardian'', August 8, 2005.</ref> the prime minister was advised that HT did "not directly advocate violence. Indeed membership or sympathy with such an organization does not in any way presuppose a move towards terrorism." The document added that young people attracted to terrorism may shy away from Hizb ut-Tahrir because they do not espouse violence, and would be seen as only engaged in "pointless pontification and debate." However, the Guardian went on to report that the "document does say membership of groups like Hizb ut-Tahrir 'may indicate ... the possibility of a few of its members being open to gradual consideration of far more extremist doctrine'." In November 2005, the [[Association of Chief Police Officers]] (Acpo) opposed the government's proposal to ban the party, arguing that it knew of no intelligence to justify proscribing HT.[http://www.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,12780,1647283,00.html]
 
On December 24, 2006 an article in The Observer revealed that the government had shelved their plans to ban the organisation because there was a home office opinion that a legal ban would not stick. It also confirmed that the request to ban had come to prime minister Tony Blair from General Musharraf, Pakistan's military ruler, himself often the political target of Hizb ut-tahrir campaigns[http://observer.guardian.co.uk/politics/story/0,,1978584,00.html].
 
Mohammed M. Ramadan, a journalist and announcer at the BBC's Arabic section in London, was a member of Hizb ut-Tahrir and opposed to the regime of Colonel Qadhafi of Libya. He was assassinated on [[11 April]] [[1980]] by Libyan operatives outside London’s Regents Park Mosque.[http://members.tripod.com/~sijill/victims]
 
Hizb ut Tahrir in Britain emphasized the importance of Muslims choosing loyalty to their religion above loyalty to any nation. In a promotional video shown on BBC News a party representative asked
<blockquote>I think Muslims in this country need to take a long, hard look at themselves and decide what is their identity. Are they British or are they Muslim? I am a Muslim. Where I live, is irrelevant. <ref>[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/3182271.stm Hizb ut Tahrir]</ref></blockquote> They have also rejected nationalism of any kind, including [[Arab nationalism]] be they citizens of a majority Muslim or non-Muslim nation <ref>"The roots of nationalism in the Muslim World" Chepter title " by Shabir Ahmed and Abid Karim</ref> adhering to Islamic [[anti-nationalism]] being [[pan-Islamic]] and [[internationalist]] in nature.
 
In 2006 it joined the British [[Stop the War Coalition]] and participated in its national demonstration.[http://www.indymedia.org.uk/en/2005/09/324256.html]
 
Dr. Abdul-Wahid, executive committee member of Hizb ut-Tahrir, has conceded their past failings, writing on "Open Democracy" in August 2005: "I welcome much of the sincere personal advice we have been offered by Muslims and non-Muslims since Hizb ut-Tahrir hit the media spotlight in the past few weeks. I have learned how our message to the Muslim community – one whose context, I truly believe, the community appreciates – is perceived by those outside. I also appreciate that errors made by immature young men almost a decade ago have been a factor in making our ideas difficult to reason with or accept."[http://www.opendemocracy.org/conflict-terrorism/criticism_2755.jsp]
 
In November 2006, the BBC reported that a street gang in [[South London]], which claimed to be Hizb ut-Tahrir, encouraged an [[Undercover journalism|undercover reporter]] to rob another gang to "prove his loyalty". The short documentary ended with the reporter claiming that the gang maybe a lone out-of-control group simply influenced by Hizb ut-Tahrir's notoriety. Dr Abdul Wahid when questioned on the program condemned the behaviour, asked the BBC to hand over all material to the police, said he would be extremely surprised if any of the gang were members of his organisation, and that if they were, he would have them removed.<ref>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVWFLSv5IGY</ref>.
 
[[Fuad Nahdi]] editor of the British newspaper Q-news said <blockquote> "The issue of political agency and political action is important. Muslim youth have to find some channel for their political rage and anger. But it does not have to be called rage and anger. If we are talking about the left, it is called a political opinion. Hizb-ut-Tahrir is one organisation where Muslim people have found a political voice. There needs to be a series of options for people to choose from" [http://www.opendemocracy.net/xml/xhtml/articles/2729.html] </blockquote>
 
In July 2007, [[Leader of the Opposition]] [[David Cameron]] asked the new [[Prime Minister]] [[Gordon Brown]] why the organisation had not been banned from the United Kingdom, arguing it was an extremist group. Gordon Brown responded that more evidence would be needed before banning a group and, when pressed further, [[John Reid]] the previous home secretary stepped in arguing that there had already been two reviews of the group with insufficient evidence to justify a ban. Reid also urged the prime minister to "stick by the law and the evidence and not to be swayed by any arbitrary political advantage that he thinks might be gained...Nothing would be more politically disadvantageous than taking on a case without evidence and losing it. That would confirm all the accusations made against us by our opponents" <ref>http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6267656.stm</ref> <ref>http://www.hizb.org.uk/hizb/news-watch/uk-government/hansard-cameron-presses-ban-on-htb.html</ref>
 
====Germany====
 
German police expelled a member of the party from Germany for alleged ties to one of the hijackers involved in the September 11, 2001 attacks. However, German police said the raids and searches in offices and homes revealed little.<ref name=Lambroschini/>The German government then banned it from public activity after a charge of distributing [[antisemitic]] propaganda, a ban that is being challenged[http://observer.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,,1980617,00.html] ''(see above section on [[Hizb ut-Tahrir#Controversy over anti-Semitism|Controversy over anti-semitism]])''.
 
===Russia, Azerbaijan and The Central Asian Republics===
Hizb ut-Tahrir is [[proscribe]]d in Russia. <ref>[http://www.arabtimesonline.com/arabtimes/kuwait/Viewdet.asp?ID=8534&cat=a 'Terror' list out; Russia tags two Kuwaiti groups], Arab Times</ref> Most of its members in the former [[Soviet Union]] are ethnic Uzbeks.<ref name=ETHNICUZ>[http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/para/hizb-ut-tahrir.htm Hizb ut-Tahrir al-Islami (Islamic Party of Liberation)] Global Security</ref>Amnesty has accused the Government of [[Uzbekistan]] of giving Hizb ut-Tahrir members unfair trials, saying members are convicted on little evidence and given heavy sentences. <ref name=MOREUZTORTURE>[http://web.amnesty.org/web/ar2002.nsf/eur/uzbekistan!Open Covering events from January - December 2001] Amnesty International.</ref> [[Craig Murray]], former British [[ambassador]] to [[Uzbekistan]], has made many claims about the Uzbek President [[Islom Karimov]], and his alleged [[dictatorial]] practices, specifically against Hizb ut-Tahrir. He alleged that members were tortured into signing [[renunciation]]s of their faith, to stop praying the 5 daily prayers of Islam ([[Salah]]), and that 2 members has who refused to do so;
<blockquote>...had been plunged into a vat of boiling water and had died both of them as a result. I didn’t know that at the time, I just saw the photographs of this body in this appalling state; I couldn’t work out what could account for it. I sent it to the pathology department of the University of Glasgow; there were a lot of photographs. The chief pathologist of the University of Glasgow, who is now chief pathologist of the United Kingdom, wrote that the only explanation for this was “immersion in boiling water”.<ref>http://www.craigmurray.co.uk/archives/2005/02/the_pathologist.html</ref> </blockquote> Hizb ut-Tahrir is also suspected of having several hundred members in [[Azerbaijan]], another former Soviet republic. Dozens of its members have been arrested.<ref>Swietochowski, "Azerbaijan: The Hidden Faces of Islam," World Policy Journal, p. 75.</ref> The group has threatened to attack [[Baku]] in the past.
 
===South and South East Asia===
In Pakistan, Hizb ut-Tahrir was proscribed by [[Pakistani President]] [[General Musharraf]] in 2004, although it had the ban on it lifted[http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=14061&TagID=3] after a legal challenge against its proscription in the Lahore [[High Court]] <ref>High Court rules ruling that distribution of pamphlets carrying criticism of the government does not entail terrorism. [http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.info/english/pakistan/2005/april1005.htm] </ref> <ref> High Court cancels detention orders of six members of Hizb-ut-Tahrir [http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.info/english/pakistan/2005/march1105.htm]</ref>.
Pakistani author [[Ahmed Rashid]] writes in ''Jihad: The Rise of Militant Islam in Central Asia'', that there are "strong links and cooperation between the rank and file" of Hizb ut-Tahrir and the [[Islamic Movement of Uzbekistan]] especially when they are from the same village or town. However, according to Jean-François Mayer of the Swiss Federal Department of Foreign Affairs; the insinuation ‘that the party will turn violent and has links with the IMU’ is inaccurate: the comments attributed to a member ‘contradicted the party’s ideas’. Representatives of Hizb ut-Tahrir report that they have repeatedly attempted to contact Ahmed Rashid in order to make their views known, but say they have not succeeded. They are even considering writing a rebuttal of his book <ref name=AQLINK>[http://hei.unige.ch/psio/fichiers/Meyer%20Al%20Qaida.pdf Hizb ut-Tahrir – The Next Al-Qaida, Really ?] PSIO</ref>
 
About Ht’s activity in Pakistan and subsequent political crackdown Multan Bench of the Lahore High Court said in March 2005 : "Hizb ut-Tahrir has shown dissatisfaction on the policies of the [Pakistan] government which is the right of each and every citizen…I am unable to understand as to how distribution of these pamphlets in the general public was termed as terrorism or sectarianism."
 
===Africa and the Arab world===
Hizb ut-Tahrir is [[proscribe]]d in many Arab countries, but is permitted to operate in the more liberal [[UAE]], [[Lebanon]] and [[Yemen]].<ref name=ARABLEGAL>[http://jamestown.org/terrorism/news/article.php?articleid=2370234 Hizb-ut-Tahrir's Growing Appeal in the Arab World] Jamestown Foundation</ref>
 
Mohammed M. Ramadan, a [[Libya]]n journalist and announcer at the BBC's Arabic section in London, was a member of Hizb ut-Tahrir and opposed to the regime of Colonel [[Qadhafi]]. He was assassinated on [[11 April]] [[1980]] by Libyan operatives outside London's [[Regent's Park Mosque]]. Many members were killed in [[extrajudicial detention]] in Libya during the 1980s [http://members.tripod.com/~sijill/victims] and the party remains a source of opposition to Qadhafi, "criticizing the paralysis and corruption of the state" and advocating "a progressive agenda of equitable redistribution of wealth."[http://www.mepc.org/journal_vol7/0002_takeyh.asp] [[Amnesty International]] reported in its 2003 Libya report that "five prisoners of conscience ... who had been imprisoned for almost three decades for their peaceful involvement with the prohibited Islamic Liberation Party, Hizb al-Tahrir" were released, but that hundreds remained in prison.[http://web.amnesty.org/report2003/lby-summary-eng]
 
According to Amnesty, four Muslim Britons and several Egyptians were tortured in [[Egypt]] for suspected affiliation with Hizb ut-Tahrir. <ref name=TORTURE>[http://web.amnesty.org/library/index/ENGMDE120382002 Amnesty international press release] Amnesty International.</ref> Eventually 26 were put on trial for what many in Egypt considered weak and obscure charges.[http://weekly.ahram.org.eg/2003/644/eg8.htm]
 
In 1969 when the son of Iraq's highest Shia [[Ayatollah]] [[Muhsin al-Hakim]] was arrested and allegedly tortured, during widespread persecution of Shia, ‘Abd al-‘Aziz al-Badri, a Sunni [[Islamic lawyer]] ''([[Alim]])'' and local Hizb ut-Tahrir leader, criticised the regime, and was killed under torture. A Sunni member of Hizb ut-Tahrir is thus seen as the first martyr for the rights of Shia in Iraq, against the old [[Baathist]] regime [http://middleeastreference.org.uk/iraqiopposition.html]. The party has called for [[Sunni]], [[Shia]], [[Arab]] and [[Kurd]]ish citizens to unite in Iraq.[http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=13044&TagID=1] Some of the party's prominent members have been murdered there, the bodies showing signs of torture.[http://forums.muslimvillage.net/lofiversion/index.php/t23865.html] Shias from Shiachat have speculated that these killings were either the work of [[al-Qaida]] or the Iraqi government.[http://www.shiachat.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=88014&mode=linear] Regarding the hanging of former [[president]] of [[Iraq]] [[Saddam Hussain]], Ismail Yusanto, spokesman of Hizb ut Tahrir in Indonesia, said: "The punishment should have been given to Saddam, because Saddam killed many Iraqi people and also members of Hizb ut Tahrir there," and that President Bush and Tony Blair "deserved no better."[http://www.gulfnews.com/region/Iraq/10093356.html].
 
In Syria, party members, along with their relatives and acquaintances, have been subject to repeated [[extrajudicial arrest]]. The Middle East Intelligence Bulletin (MEIB) issue July 2000 and the Syrian Human Rights Committee quoted on the [[United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees]] website, in its annual report of June 2006 reported that the Syrian authorities began its clampdown on Hizb ut-Tahrir in 1998-1999 with hundreds of members being arrested in a nationwide manhunt led by Air Force Intelligence ([[Mukhabarat]]).<!--not clear who said what in the previous sentence; hard to parse--> The MEIB issue of December 2000 states that "Representatives of the group have said that 1,200 of its members were arrested by Syrian security forces in December 1999 and January 2000." In its 2005 report Amnesty International stated that in 2004 dozens of Islamist students and clerics were arrested, many with links to Hizb ut-Tahrir and tried before military courts.[http://www.unhcr.org/home/RSDCOI/45656fe44.pdf][http://www.shrc.org.uk/data/aspx/d1/2941.aspx]
 
Throughout 2006 a spate of HuT campaigns and related arrests took place throughout the [[Arab world]]. There were arrests in [[Jordan]], [[Morocco]], [[Tunisia]], and visible public activities in the [[Palestinian territories]], [[Zanzibar]], and [[Lebanon]], enjoying growing support among senior army staff, government officials, and the intelligentsia.[http://www.arabicnews.com/ansub/Daily/Day/060112/2006011209.html]
 
The Egyptian government banned Hizb ut-Tahrir in 1974 after an alleged [[coup]] attempt.<ref name=EGYPTCOUP>[http://www.bhhrg.org/mediaDetails.asp?ArticleID=50 Muslim girl's brother linked to Islam radicals] British Helsinki Human Rights Group</ref>
 
Syrian ex-member of Hizb ut-Tahrir, [[Omar Bakri]] notorious for his activity in the UK, claims that a significant number of members primarily in Jordan split from the original body of Hizb ut-Tahrir members and formed another Hizb ut-Tahrir known as 'renegades' or 'HT camp 2'. This led to a further two minor splits of no significant membership. He attempts to partly attribute this to himself while simultaneously denying self aggrandization. [http://www.jamestown.org/news_details.php?news_id=38].
 
==Prominent members==
*Shaykh [[Taqiuddin al-Nabhani]] (founder)
*Shaykh Ahmed Dauor (Jordanian parliamentarian 1955-1957, deceased)
*Shaykh Abdul Qadeem Zalloum (second leader, deceased)
*Shaykh [[Ata Abu Rashta]](current global leader of Hizb ut-Tahrir)
*Jamal Harwood (Chairman of UK Executive Committee)
*Taji Mustafa (Media Representative and UK Executive Committee member)
*Dr Imran Waheed (Media Representative and UK Executive Committee member)[http://www.hizb.org.uk/downloads/index.php?id=2390_0_48_0_C]
*Dr Nazreen Nawaz (Women's Representative)[http://www.hizb.org.uk/downloads/index.php?id=2390_0_48_0_C]
*Dr Abdul Wahid (GP & UK Executive Committee member) [http://www.opendemocracy.net/author/Abdul_Wahid.jsp]
*Shaykh Ali Syed Abul-Hassan (Imam of Masjid as-Sahaba, Khartoum, Sudan spokesman, deceased)
*Mohammad Nafi Abdul-Karim Salih (Jordanian member, deceased)
*Shaykh Mahmoud Abdul-Latif Uweidah - Abu Iyas (Prominent Jordanian Member)
*Shaykh Taleb Awadallah (Palestinian Member from al-Khalil, Hebron)
*Shaykh Yusuf Ba'darani (Lebanese member)
*Shaykh Abdul-Aziz Badri (Iraqi member, deceased)
*[[Jalaluddin Patel]] (a UK leader)
*Ashraf Doureihi (a prominent Australia member)
*[[Wassim Doureihi]] (Australia spokesperson)
*Soadad Doureihi (a prominent Australia member)
*Mohammed AbdulWahhab (a prominent Australia member)
*Naveed Butt (Pakistan spokesperson)
*Imran Yousufzai (Pakistan spokesperson)
*Yilmaz Celik (Turkey spokesperson)
*Ayman Qadri (Lebanon spokesperson)
*Muhammad Ismail Yusanto (Indonesia spokesperson)
*Shaykh Ibrahim Othman - Abu Khalil (Sudan spokesperson)
*Mohiuddin Ahmed (Bangladesh Chief Coordinator and Spokesperson)
*Farhad Usmanov (Uzbekistan, died in prison)
*Dr Mohammad Abu Talha (USA member)
*Dr Mustapha Yousuf (USA member)
*Okay Pala (Holland spokesperson)
 
==See also==
{{Islamism}}
*[[Taqiuddin al-Nabhani]]
*[[List of political parties in the Palestinian National Authority]]
*[[Islam in Indonesia]]
*[[Islam in Uzbekistan]]
**[[May 2005 unrest in Uzbekistan]]
*[[Islamic democracy]]
 
==References==
{{reflist|colwidth=30em}}
 
==Further reading==
*[http://moonbatmedia.com/hizb_ut_tahrir_190806/ Photo report of Hizb ut-Tahrir street protest in London], ''Moonbat Media'', August 19, 2006
*[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/4931416.stm "BBC Hard Talk interview with Maajid Nawaz"], ''BBC News 24 Hard Talk with Sarah Montague'', April 2006
*[http://hei.unige.ch/psio/fichiers/Meyer%20Al%20Qaida.pdf 'Hizb ut-Tahrir–The Next Al-Qaida, Really?"] by Jean-François Mayer, Federal Department of Foreign Affairs, Switzerland
*[http://politics.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,1978581,00.html "PM shelves Islamic group ban" ] by The Guardian Newspaper
*[http://www.khilafat.pk/28rajab/books/nidham.pdf The System of Islam] Book by Founder of Hizb ut Tahrir, al-Nabhani - in English
*[http://users.dickinson.edu/~commins/TaqiAl-dinAl-Nabhani.pdf 'TAQI AL-DIN AL-NABHANI AND THE ISLAMIC LIBERATION PARTY'] by Professor David Commins, Department of History, Dickinson College, Carlisle
*[http://www.hizb.org.uk/pressnew/index.php?id=3083_0_45_0_M97 "al-Jazeera interview with Ian Nisbet and Maajid Nawaz - Arabic"], ''al-Jazeera interview in Arabic'', March 2006
*[http://www.opendemocracy.net/conflict-terrorism/ban_2740.jsp "Tony Blair and Hizb-ut-Tahrir: 'Muslims under the bed'] Abdul Wahid, ''openDemocracy.net'', August 9, 2005
*[http://politics.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,15935,1543385,00.html "The Prime Minister's statement on anti-terror measures"] ''The Guardian'', August 5, 2005
*[http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.info/english/constitution.htm Hizb ut-Tahrir's draft constitution]
*[http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/12/30/news/islam9.php "Cartoons ignite cultural combat in Denmark"], ''International Herald Tribune'', December 31, 2005
*[http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20051101faessay84607/zeyno-baran/fighting-the-war-of-ideas.html "Fighting the War of Ideas"], ''Foreign Affairs'', November/December 2005
*[http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/newsnight/3182271.stm "Hizb ut Tahrir"], ''BBC Newsnight'', August 27, 2003
*[http://www.khilafah.com/home/category.php?DocumentID=11691&TagID=1 FAQ about Hizb ut-Tahrir by Khilafah.com]
*[http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.org/ Hizb ut-Tahrir official website in Urdu, German, English, Russian, Turkish and Arabic languages]
*[http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.info/ Official Media Office of Hizb ut-Tahrir website]
*[http://www.schicksalsfrage.org/ Hizb ut-Tahrir Germany]
*[http://www.28rajab.com Hizb ut-Tahrir Pakistan]
*[http://www.khilafat.org/ Hizb ut-Tahrir Bangladesh]
*[http://www.hizb.org.uk/ Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain]
*[http://www.hizbut-tahrir.or.id/main.php Hizb ut-Tahrir Indonesia]
*[http://www.mykhilafah.com/ Hizb ut-Tahrir Malaysia]
*[http://www.turkiye-vilayeti.org/ Hizb ut-Tahrir Turkey]
*[http://www.risala.org/ Hizb ut-Tahrir Australia]
*[http://www.hizb-ut-tahrir.dk/ Hizb ut-Tahrir Denmark]
*[http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/11989895/ Inside ‘Islam’s political insurgency’ in Europe]
*[http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12250008/ Q&A with Hizb ut-Tahrir spokesman by MSNBC]
*[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/3225102.stm BBC Hardtalk's Tim Sebastian interview with Hizb ut-Tahrir spokesman]
*[http://newswww.bbc.net.uk/1/hi/programmes/hardtalk/4931416.stm BBC Hardtalk's Sarah Montague interview with Maajid Nawaz, who was imprisoned in Egypt for belonging to the political party]
*[http://www.khilafah.net/ Arabic website]
* {{fr}} [http://www.cyberscopie.info/pages/art_archives/art59_archi.html Article describing the autocontradictory policy of the Central asiatic authorities regarding Hizb ut-Tharir]
*[http://www.jamestown.org/images/pdf/st_002_008.pdf Interview with leader of Hizb ut-Tahrir Britain by the Jamestown Foundation - PDF Format]
*[http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?ID=12891 Recent interview with IRSN]
*[http://www.abc.net.au/pm/content/2005/s1421932.htm Interview with Australian Broadcasting Corporation]
*[http://politics.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,9115,1574832,00.html Recent article in Guardian with interview of female members]
*[http://simonjones1.blogspot.com/2005/07/from-bishkek-to-baghdad-caliphates.html Simon Jones comment, journalist currently based in Tashkent, Uzbekistan]
*[http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,,1348296,00.html 'The West needs to understand it is inevitable: Islam is coming back']
*[http://www.jihadmonitor.org/wp-content/uploads/2007/04/jmophut.pdf Hizb ut-Tahrir in Spain]
*[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4127688.stm Q&A: Hizb ut-Tahrir by BBC]
*[http://www.newstatesman.com/200409130018 Article in New Statesman]
[[Category:Political parties established in 1953]]
[[Category:Hizb ut-Tahrir]]
[[Category:Islam and antisemitism]]
[[Category:Islam in Uzbekistan]]
[[Category:Islamic activist organizations]]
[[Category:Islamism]]
 
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[[fr:Hizb ut-Tahrir]]
[[id:Hizbut Tahrir]]
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