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'''Bacon's Rebellion''' or the '''Virginia Rebellion''' was an [[rebellion|uprising]] in 1676 in the [[Virginia Colony]], led by [[Nathaniel Bacon]]. It was the first rebellion in the [[Thirteen colonies|American colonies]] in which discontented frontiersmen took part; a similar uprising in [[Maryland]] occurred later that year.
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{{WPBiography|class=B|priority=Low|musician-work-group=yes|listas=Mars Volta, The}}
{{WikiProject Texas}}
{{WikiProject California}}
==New Info==
[http://harpmagazine.com/articles/detail.cfm?article_id=4807]
==Plot==
This article contains a pretty in-depth retelling of the history of the band.
[[Image:Nathaniel Bacon.jpg|thumb|Portrait of Nathaniel Bacon.]]
By the end of the seventeenth century in the [[Chesapeake Bay|Chesapeake]], the elite farmers on the [[Atlantic Ocean|Atlantic]] coast, called the "[[Tidewater region of Virginia|tidewater]] [[gentry]]" owned much of the best farmland in the area and exercised political power disproportionate to their numbers, to the discontent of the majority of the population who were small farmers, [[indentured servants]] and slaves. Small farmers, being unable to afford the best lands, were drawn to the backcountry lands that were vulnerable to attack by [[Native Americans in the United States|Native Americans]]. Backcountry farmers also had difficulty moving their goods to markets. [[Tax]]es were high, especially on [[tobacco]] after 1660. The [[governor of Virginia|colonial governor]] of [[Virginia]], [[William Berkeley|Sir William Berkeley]] had levied a new tax for the construction of forts but there was widespread complaint about government corruption and the uselessness of the forts.
Bacon had broad support among the colonists and demanded a commission to raise a militia and fight the Indians. After much political haggling, Bacon was granted the commission and led a campaign against some of the Indians of the frontier. After returning to Jamestown, conflicts arose between Bacon and Berkeley and their followers. The so-called Baconites overpowered the Berkeley faction and the governor then fled to the [[Eastern Shore]]. Bacon's followers ravaged the capital for three months, destroying the symbols of the aristocratic gentry and seizing property. A volunteer army was raised, somewhat in the image of the [[New Model Army]] of the recent [[English Civil War]]. The Baconites plundered Tidewater estates whose owners refused to join them. Few Virginians were able to remain neutral.
==Where are they based?==
Okay, i'm wondering where they are based and living. I know they're from El Paso but I have heard that currently they're based in Long Beach, which seems weird to me even thought Tremulant was recorded there. It would make sense for them to still be in El Paso but i'm not sure. I've also noticed someone keeps changing their origin to different areas.
:The band started in long beach and I don't think any of them have lived or worked in el paso since before at the drive in broke up. And as far as I know excluding Omar the rest of the band lives in and around LA. Ikey is the only one I know for sure who lives in LB. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 23:04, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
::They moved to Long Beach after meeting up with Ikey to start DeFacto. They've been based there ever since. [[User:CanbekEsen|CanbekEsen]] 23:07, 2 May 2007 (UTC)
A revolutionary government was established, echoing the [[Commonwealth of England]], which had ended 16 years earlier. Bacon died on October 26, 1676, of the "bloody flux" or dysentery. The rebellion continued until several well-armed London-based merchant ships arrived in Virginia, loyal to Berkeley. These were trading ships whose captains were not aware of the rebellion until they arrived. A fleet of the Royal Navy set sail for Virginia upon hearing of the rebellion but would not arrive until several months after the merchant ships. With these merchant ships, cannon and crews, Berkeley was able to put down the rebellion. In the aftermath, before the arrival of the Royal Navy, Berkeley tried and executed many rebels in what began to resemble a reign of terror. When the Royal Navy and Royal Commissioners arrived, Berkeley's revenge campaign was halted and mass pardons were issued. A significant number of rebels fled to the [[Albemarle Settlements]] of North Carolina.
==Timeline==
So I just revamped the timeline! hooray. But If anyone would kindly give me exact dates of everyones joining and leaving the band, the timeline could be made more accurate. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 05:08, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
==Causes==
There are specific reason I did the timeline the way I did and that's because other wise it's fugly and hard to read, I had it ordered in terms of instrument played and then had it coloured coded to distinguish it from one another and when they're palced directly on top of each other like this it's easy for comparison and telling what a certain lineup is at a certain time, now it's just this massive clump of unorganised mess, almost as bad as the Slayer one. You you plan to "revamp" the timeline make sure it's done well.
Nathaniel Bacon's Rebellion can be attributed to several causes. Economic problems such as declining tobacco prices, growing commercial competition from Maryland and the [[Carolinas]], an increasingly restricted English market and the rising price of English manufactured goods ([[mercantilism]]) caused problems for the Virginians. There were many problems caused by weather; several [[natural disaster]]s including [[hailstorm]]s, [[floods]], [[drought]] and [[hurricane]]s rocked the colony in one year. Virginia had also become a haven for [[Roundhead]]s and [[Cavalier]]s during the English Civil War. Bacon's Rebellion was partly an echo of the English Civil War. The revolutionary government established by the Baconites had ties to the republican Commonwealth of England.
In July 1675, a raid by the Doeg group of American Indians on the [[plantation]] of [[Thomas Mathew]] in the [[Northern Neck]] section of Virginia near the [[Potomac River]] occurred. Several of the Doegs were killed in the raid, which began over a dispute over the nonpayment of items Mathews had apparently obtained from the tribe. Things got worse when the colonists launched a retaliatory attack but on the wrong tribe - the powerful [[Susquehannock]]s - which caused large Indian raids in reprisal.
:I was actually going to remove the timeline altogether becuase I didn't feel it was necessary, not to mention I thought the original was alot harder to read than the new one (massive and clumpy as it is). In addition it can't be that usefull considering its inaccuracy at the moment. Once we find more specific info it won't be a problem. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 06:31, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Berkeley ordered an investigation into the reasons for the attacks, during which he pleaded for restraint on all sides but many Virginians claimed that Berkeley had monopolized the Indian trade and was making large profits from the Indians so found his call for restraint insincere. Nathaniel Bacon, ignored the Governor's orders and seized some friendly [[Appomattox]] natives on a charge of stealing [[maize|corn]]. He was reprimanded and his fellow farmers were aggrieved at this seemingly one-sided action. In attempting to find a compromise, the Governor called what was known as the '''Long Assembly''' which declared war on all the "bad Indians" by setting up a defensive zone around the state. To do this taxes were levied, to the disgust of the frontiersmen, who were already overtaxed. There was an ill-feeling among the middle and lower classes that "favored traders" were allowed to trade with the Indians at the expense of regular traders who had dealt with the Indians for generations.
::It's perfectly fine, you just need to start learning that this page isn't yours and you need to stop trying to put your own little mark on every piece of information inserted on to it. And if you can think of a way to better represent complete line ups of the past get rid of mine and go for it, just don't turn mine into a shit heap like before.
Bacon came out as leader of those most in opposition to the policies being pursued by Berkeley and he became the elected "[[general]]" of a group of local volunteer Indian fighters, having promised to bear the cost of the campaigns. During the campaign against the Indians, the governor nonetheless declared Bacon a rebel.
:::Could you do it without the rainbow of colors? Btw someone will yell at you for putting flea in there soon, just a heads up.[[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 06:58, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
==Bacon and the House of Burgesses==
::::I was going to try and get more colours because without them it might be hard to distinguish between them, but if you've got a better colour scheme in mind go for it. Also for clarification, I'm fine with you editing it, I just want them to be improvements rather than crapping them up.
Bacon and his men continued to attack the tribes. Since Bacon's forces outnumbered Berkeley's, the governor was forced into agreeing to issue a [[pardon]] if Bacon turned himself in, to be then sent to England for trial before King [[Charles II of England]]. Many of the members of the House of Burgesses were sympathetic to Bacon's cause, which led to him being elected a member of the House.
Bacon, by virtue of this election, attended the important [[Legislative Assembly]] of June 1676, where he was made to apologize for his previous actions. Berkeley immediately pardoned Bacon and allowed him to take his seat in the assembly. Bacon and his followers were pushing for more than defense against the Indians. They were demanding major reforms to the colonial government. Matters came to a head during a debate on the Indian situation when Bacon and his men surrounded the [[Virginia State Capitol|capitol building]] in [[Jamestown, Virginia|Jamestown]] and forced the Governor to give in to Bacon's demand for campaigns against the Indians without government interference. This concession was short-lived and when Berkeley reneged on the commission, the rebels took over Jamestown between July 30 (when Bacon issued his [[Declaration of the People of Virginia]]) and September 1676.
::::: [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Colors] , but then again I know jackshit about these charts and im not even sure if this even applies [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 07:01, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
When Berkeley returned to recapture the town, aided by well-armed London-based merchant ships, Bacon burned it. For a short time Nathaniel Bacon was in charge of Virginia but his success quickly ended. On October 26th, 1676, Bacon died of the "Bloodie Flux" and "Lousey Disease" (body lice). It is thought that his soldiers burned his body because it was never found. Some of the rebels were executed or had their property confiscated. After the Royal Navy and Royal Commissioners arrived, the rebels were allowed to express their grievances and mass pardons were issued. The commissioners realized that the majority of Virginians had supported the rebellion. For the colony of Virginia to survive, compromises had to be made. Berkeley was relieved of the governorship by the Royal Commissioners. He died in England on [[July 9]], 1677.
::::::Ok I changed them to cooler colours, what do you think?
== Effects of the Rebellion ==
:Good job I like it. But won't it be hard to change to it later when we find more specific dates when its set up in the year format and not exact dates? Plus maybe we should drop flea to stay consistent with what was agreed upon in the Guest musicians section? [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 07:27, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Bacon's Rebellion also the Virginia Rebellion was the result of discontent among backcountry farmers who had taken the law into their own hands against government corruption and oppression. Many Virginians were debtors. Borrowing on the strength of paper money was stopped by the British Government, leading to more discontent against the merchant classes. Many of the supporters of the rebellion were indentured servants and slaves, who were a majority of Virginia's population.
Historian Helen Hill Miller has pointed out that one of the most important reforms made during Bacon's government was the recognition of the [[right to bear arms]], so that the common man could defend himself from hostile Indians but also to oppose a despotic regime. After Berkeley's resumption of power, this right was one of the first he repealed. Miller suggests it was Bacon's Rebellion that may have served as one of the motives for later colonists' insistence the right to bear arms. Historian Stephen Saunders Webb goes suggests that Bacon's Rebellion was a revolution, with roots in the English Civil War and with consequences including the [[American Revolutionary War]].
::The Years are done in decimal places so I'm sure it can be worked out, and I put flea there just for the sake of not having white space, if you feel he shouldn't be there than we can take him out.
It was largely the slaves, servants and poor farmers many of whom were former indentured servants who rebelled. Before the rebellion, African slaves were rare in Virginia, mainly due to their expense and the lack of slave traders bringing Africans to Virginia. Many Africans were brought as indentured servants, becoming free after serving their term of labor. While indentured servants from Europe continued to play a role in Virginia after the rebellion, African slave imports grew rapidly and new laws made slavery lifelong and passed on to one's children, creating a racially-based class system with Africans at the bottom and even the poorest European indentured servants above. This broke the common interest between the poor English and the Africans of Virginia which had existed during Bacon's Rebellion.
:::I don't mind, but I know some other people will considering they didn't appreciate it when I left flea/frusciante in as members. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 07:40, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
The rebellion strengthened the ties between Virginia south of the James River and the [[Albemarle Settlements]] in present-day [[North Carolina]], while creating a long-lasting animosity between the two colonies' governments. The Albemarle region offered refuge for rebels in the aftermath. In the longer term, North Carolina offered an alternative to colonists disenchanted with Virginia.
::::Actually, now thinking about it I think he should be removed just because I've got him down until June just because thats when De-Loused came out but Juan was playing with the band since April/Earlier.
==In culture==
Exact dates (so far):
The book ''[[My Brother, My Enemy]]'' is a fictitious tale about Bacon's Rebellion.
*JMWard 2001 - May 25, 2003
*Pablo May 24, 2005
*Blake - July 28th, 2006
*Deantoni - October 27th, 2006
The Book "A Different Mirror" by Ronald Takaki. Pages 62-67
:Omar has also stated in interviews that Blake was in the band for a month before being kicked out in the beginning who formed in June 2001.
==See also==
Could someone update the timeline and reinsert it? I couldn't figure it out:
*[[Queen Anne (Pamunkey chief)]]
===Timeline=References==
* John B. Frantz, ''Bacon's Rebellion: Prologue to the Revolution?'' (1969), readings
<timeline>
* Lovejoy, David S., "The Virginia Charter and Bacon's Rebellion," ''The Glorious Revolution in America'' (1972), 32-52.
TimeAxis = orientation:horizontal format:yyyy
* Edmund Sears Morgan, "Rebellion," in ''American Slavery, American Freedom:The Ordeal of Colonial Virginia'' (New York: Norton, 1975), 250-70.
ImageSize = width:1000 height:250
* W. E. Washburn, ''The Governor and the Rebel'' (1957, repr. 1967).
PlotArea = width:950 height:200 bottom:20 left:20
* T. J. Wertenbaker, ''Torchbearer of the Revolution'' (1940, rpt. 1965)
* T. J. Wertenbaker ''Bacon's Rebellion, 1676'' (1957)
* Paul Johnson, "A History of the American People" (1997), 77-78
* Webb, Stephen Saunders, "1676 - The End of American Independence." (New York: 1984).
== Trivia ==
Colors =
id:canvas value:rgb(0.97,0.97,0.97)
id:grid1 value:rgb(0.86,0.86,0.86)
id:grid2 value:gray(0.8)
id:bars value:rgb(0.96,0.96,0.6)
id:Vocals value:rgb(0.7,0.7,1) # light yellow
id:Guitar value:rgb(1,0.7,0.7) # light red
id:Keyboards value:rgb(0.7,1,0.7) # light green
id:drums value:rgb(1,1,0.7) # light blue
id:Sound value:rgb(1,0.7,1) # light purple
id:Bass value:lightorange
id:Percussion value:gray(0.7)
id:Wind value:rgb(0.7,1,1) # light blue
In [[Surry County, Virginia|Surry County]], the Allen family's circa 1665 brick home became known as "[[Bacon's Castle]]" because it was occupied as a [[fort]] or "[[castle]]" in 1676 during Bacon's Rebellion. Contrary to popular folklore, Nathaniel Bacon never lived at Bacon's Castle nor is even known to have occupied it. Nathaniel Bacon was the proprietor of [[Curles Neck Plantation]] in [[Henrico County, Virginia|Henrico County]], about 30 miles upriver on the northern bank of the James River.
BackgroundColors = canvas:canvas
The tragedy, ''[[The Widow Ranter|The Widow Ranter; or, The History of Bacon in Virginia]]'', by [[Aphra Behn]] ([[1689]]) presents an extremely romanticized version of the story.
Period = from:2001.0 till:2007.0
ScaleMajor = unit:year increment:1 start:2001.0 gridcolor:grid1
==External links==
bardata=
bar:Vocals text:
bar:Guitarist text:
bar:Keyboardist text:
bar:Drums text:
bar:Sound text:
bar:Bass text:
bar:Percussionist text:
bar:Wind text:
*[http://www.greattradingpath.com/native-american-indian-history/index.htm Great Trading Path original source documents pertaining to Bacon's Rebellion]
plotdata=
[[Category:Rebellions in the United States]]
# set defaults
[[Category:Colonial Virginia]]
align:left anchor:from textcolor:black fontsize:8 mark:(line,white) shift:(5,-5)
[[Category:History of the Thirteen Colonies]]
[[de:Bacon’s Rebellion]]
bar:Vocals color:Vocals
[[fr:Révolte de Nathaniel Bacon]]
from:2001.5 till:2007 text:"[[Cedric Bixler-Zavala]]"
[[no:Bacons opprør]]
bar:Guitarist color:Guitar
from:2001.5 till:2007 text:"[[Omar A. Rodriguez-Lopez]]"
bar:Keyboardist color:Keyboards
from:2001.5 till:2002.7 text:"[[Isaiah Ikey Owens]]"
from:2002.7 till:2003.0 text:"[[Linda Good]]" shift:(5,2)
from:2003.0 till:2007.0 text:"Isaiah Ikey Owens" shift:(5,-9)
bar:Drums color:drums
from:2001.5 till:2001.7 text:"[[Blake Fleming]]" shift:(5,2)
from:2001.7 till:2006.5 text:"[[Jon Philip Theodore]]" shift:(5,-9)
from:2006.5 till:2006.7 text:"Blake Fleming" shift:(5,2)
from:2006.7 till:2006.9 text:"[[Deantoni Parks]]" shift:(5,-9)
bar:Sound color:Sound
from:2001.5 till:2003.25 text:"[[Jeremy Michael Ward]]"
from:2003.25 till: 2003.3 text:"[[Jason Lader]]"
from:2004.0 till:2007.0 text:"[[Pablo Hinojos-Gonzalez]]"
bar:Bass color:Bass
from:2001.5 till:2002.5 text:"[[Eva Catherine Gardner]]"
from:2002.5 till:2002.8 text:"[[Ralph Jasso]]"
from:2002.8 till:2003.0 text:"[[Jason Lader]]" shift:(5,4)
from:2003.0 till:2003.1 text:"[[Flea]]" shift:(5,-13)
from:2003.1 till:2007.0 text:"[[Juan Alderete]]"
bar:Percussionist color:Percussion
from:2002.0 till:2007.0 text:"[[Marcel Rodriguez-Lopez]]"
bar:Wind color:Wind
from:2004.0 till:2007.0 text:"[[Adrian Terrazas-Gonzales]]"
</timeline>
It's completely fixed now but some asshole removed it, please don't
::STOP removing the timeline. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/124.183.253.203|124.183.253.203]] ([[User talk:124.183.253.203|talk]]) 10:28, 30 January 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
:::Jesus Christ I don't know what happened to the timeline this time but what were they thinking? <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/124.183.249.71|124.183.249.71]] ([[User talk:124.183.249.71|talk]]) 11:39, 14 March 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
I ([[User:Cgilbert76|cgilbert]]) am responsible for the new alternate version of the timeline shown below:
===Member Timeline===
<timeline>
TimeAxis = orientation:horizontal format:yyyy
ImageSize = width:1000 height:500
PlotArea = width:900 height:480 bottom:20 left:80
Colors =
id:canvas value:rgb(0.97,0.97,0.97)
id:grid1 value:rgb(0.86,0.86,0.86)
id:grid2 value:gray(0.8)
id:bars value:rgb(0.96,0.96,0.6)
id:Vocals value:rgb(0.7,0.7,1) # light yellow
id:Guitar value:rgb(1,0.7,0.7) # light red
id:Keyboards value:rgb(0.7,1,0.7) # light green
id:drums value:rgb(1,1,0.7) # light blue
id:Sound value:rgb(1,0.7,1) # light purple
id:Bass value:lightorange
id:Percussion value:gray(0.7)
id:Wind value:rgb(0.7,1,1) # light blue
BackgroundColors = canvas:canvas
Period = from:2001.0 till:2008.0
ScaleMajor = unit:year increment:1 start:2001.0 gridcolor:grid1
bardata=
bar:Cedric text:"Vocals"
bar:Omar text:"Guitar"
bar:Isaiah text:"Keyboards"
bar:Linda text:
bar:Blake text:"Drums"
bar:Jon text:
bar:Deantoni text:
bar:Thomas text:
bar:Jeremy text:"Sound"
bar:Jason text:
bar:Pablo text:
bar:Eva text:"Bass"
bar:Ralph text:
bar:Jason2 text:
bar:Flea text:
bar:Juan text:
bar:Marcel text:"Percussion"
bar:Adrian text:"Wind"
plotdata=
# set defaults
align:center textcolor:black fontsize:10 mark:(line,white) shift:(5,-5)
bar:Cedric color:Vocals
from:2001.5 till:2008 text:"[[Cedric Bixler-Zavala]]"
bar:Omar color:Guitar
from:2001.5 till:2008 text:"[[Omar A. Rodriguez-Lopez]]"
bar:Isaiah color:Keyboards
from:2001.5 till:2002.7 text:"[[Isaiah Ikey Owens]]"
from:2003.0 till:2008.0 text:"Isaiah Ikey Owens"
bar:Linda color:Keyboards
from:2002.7 till:2003.0 align:left anchor:from text:"[[Linda Good]]"
bar:Blake color:drums
from:2001.5 till:2001.7 align:left anchor:from text:"[[Blake Fleming]]"
from:2006.5 till:2006.7 align:left anchor:from text:"Blake Fleming"
bar:Jon color:drums
from:2001.7 till:2006.5 text:"[[Jon Philip Theodore]]"
bar:Deantoni color:drums
from:2006.7 till:2006.9 align:left anchor:from text:"[[Deantoni Parks]]"
bar:Thomas color:drums
from:2006.9 till:2008.0 text:"[[Thomas Pridgen]]"
bar:Jeremy color:Sound
from:2001.5 till:2003.25 text:"[[Jeremy Michael Ward]]"
bar:Jason color:Sound
from:2003.25 till: 2003.3 align:left anchor:from text:"[[Jason Lader]]"
bar:Pablo color:Sound
from:2004.0 till:2008.0 text:"[[Paul Hinojos]]"
bar:Eva color:Bass
from:2001.5 till:2002.5 align:left anchor:from text:"[[Eva Catherine Gardner]]"
bar:Ralph color:Bass
from:2002.5 till:2002.8 align:left anchor:from text:"[[Ralph Jasso]]"
bar:Jason2 color:Bass
from:2002.8 till:2003.0 align:left anchor:from text:"[[Jason Lader]]"
bar:Flea color:Bass
from:2003.0 till:2003.1 align:left anchor:from text:"[[Flea (musician)|Flea]]"
bar:Juan color:Bass
from:2003.1 till:2008.0 text:"[[Juan Alderete]]"
bar:Marcel color:Percussion
from:2003.1 till:2008.0 text:"[[Marcel Rodriguez-Lopez]]"
bar:Adrian color:Wind
from:2004.0 till:2008.0 text:"[[Adrian Terrazas-Gonzales]]"
</timeline>
I think that this version of the timeline is easier to read and gives more information in the way of the instruments that each musician plays. Perhaps we could have a vote from all the editors of this article as to which timeline they like more, and perhaps that will settle the issue. If you like the original condensed timeline vote for "original"; if you like the alternate expanded version of the timeline vote for "alternate". Thank you - [[User:Cgilbert76|cgilbert]]<sup>([[User_talk:Cgilbert76|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cgilbert76|contribs]])</sup> 13:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
:Regardless of which one we end up using, I think the original needs to have marcel join a bit later, becuase I can't recall him playing with the band until after juan joined. Although I could be wrong [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 18:19, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
::Well I do remember seeing pictures of Marcel playing along side Ralph Jasso but I put 2002 in as a join date because I seem to remember that year being mentioned by Omar in an interview.
*'''alternate''' - [[User:Cgilbert76|cgilbert]]<sup>([[User_talk:Cgilbert76|talk]]|[[Special:Contributions/Cgilbert76|contribs]])</sup> 13:39, 16 March 2007 (UTC)
*'''Original''' [[User:60.229.33.127|60.229.33.127]] 03:14, 17 March 2007 (UTC) (Dude who made the original, no account)
- I don't know about anyone else, but I find it quite annoying that the timeline stretches my page. Would it not be possible to make a timeline which begins when the band was formed? That empty space at the start seems to be one reason why it stretches the the page. I dunno if this is possible, but the screen stretching just seems very untidy. Just a thought. [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] 03:31, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
:It doesn't stretch my screen, but I'm at a pretty high resolution. I never thought about it, I guess someone smarter than me could figure out a way to make it smaller. If not you could just take it out temporarily.[[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 05:34, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
::-I'm cool with leaving it in because I think its one of the better parts of the article, but I'm running at 1024x768 which I believe is the "standard" or minimum resolution these days, so a lot of people will be seeing it stretched. If theres anyone out there who can fix or modify the timeline, post a version of it here and we'll have a vote on it or something, thanks! [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] 17:25, 1 April 2007 (UTC)
==GUEST MUSCIANS==
Should people who guested on volta albums be considered members?
i.e. Sara Gross, and the televators bass dude. They are mentioned on each album article, but they don't need to be in the members sections. Only people who've played live with them or played a significant role on the albums.
They are quite signigant parts, there are MANY more artists that were left out because they wern't significant.
:yeah but then we end up with this giant list of muscians in the members section, we might as well list the tuba player from frances and teh coqui frogs as members. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 04:48, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
:: no, those aren't significant and hence, were left out.
:::But they aren't really members of the band per se. TMI really... just relocate all that stuff to their respective album pages. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 05:25, 21 October 2006 (UTC)
Ok lets start over. I'm not discriminating against these other people becuase they're not famous, the only reason I left John F and Flea in, is because they played such integral roles in the albums. Bass on an entire album, and the fact that FRusc played as much if not more a role on amp than omar is what qualifies them to be in the members list. Not becuase they are famous. I also LEFT IN people like jasso becuase even though they did not play significant roles, or are famous, they were technically members of the band. But someone like Larry Harlow, an accomplished salsa muscian, was never part of the band, he certainly contributed to L'via but I don't think he belongs in the list. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 16:23, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Jason Lader: Sound manip on one B-side song qualifies him as member? no
Sara Christina Gross from Radio vago played on one track only.
Justin Meldel Johson Stand up bass on one track.
ETC
And the specific song info isn't necessary for the other members, its detailed in each album article.
Lenny Castro did percussion for two entire albums. Also you say Jason Lader isnt counted as a member when you've edited him yourself in the bass section. Explain that one.
: I think Jason and Jasso belong in the section as bassists becuase they toured live with the band, but things like sound manipulation on one song, or additional percussion as a guest on an album doesn't necessarily qualify them to be in this particular section of this article. It doesn't mean they're being erased from existence, they are still mentioned on each album page under the contributing artists sections. The way the article stands now is fine. The members section emphasizes live members and not just everyone who has worked with the band.[[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 05:45, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
So that's JF and Flea out. JF is a GUEST guitarist on two albums and GUEST synth on another and Flea played Bass for 9 tracks of one album and never played a live date.
:wtvrman [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 01:53, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
==Amp cover art==
http://www.juxtapoz.com/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=321&Itemid=50
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:GSL126_cover_temp_461.jpg
== Omar's bid to kill the mythical dragon ==
Is this crap totally necessary in this article???
== new info ==
http://www.thecomatorium.com/board/index.php?showtopic=50722
== Tremulant ==
Someone needs to rework the the description of the Tremulant EP at the end of the begning section, its not very encyclopedic.
==Currently==
The band is currently in the process of recording their third album. John Frusciante is said to be involved once again, and this time in a much larger capacity.
i did not want to change this until i was sure
but i just read an interview where Cedric said they would be using
little or no other people
and Omar has said: ''"this album will be much closer to the real volta"''
:Check the date, that interview might be refering to Frances. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 19:44, 20 January 2006 (UTC)
::can you provide a link to this interview?[[User:Leo Collin|Leo Collin]] 07:49, 21 January 2006 (UTC)
:::I read that John Frusciante would be helping not in the creative process, but the interview said something like he's been helping out in the studio playing with omar to see how different things sound
== Images ==
This article needs more images.
[http://www.thecomatorium.com/board/index.php?showtopic=35237 Huge source of pictures]
Here is the logo if anyone wants to work it in:
[[Image:Marsvoltalogo.jpg]]
==Drugs==
There's a lot of drug references in the article, which I wasn't sure what I thought of. In a way, they almost seem a bit editorializing, and not focusing on the ''facts'' of what the band actually does. However, I didn't want to remove the drug discussion...if that is a fair thing to mention with regards to the band, I'm all for keeping it in, but I don't know the band well enough to make that call. Does anybody have an opinion on this, or information they can point to that discusses the band's drug usage? [[User:evilphoenix|EvilPhoenix]]
I thought exactly the same thing. I've only heard vague references about the band using drugs, not any explicit statements citing that the band ever did or does endorse marijuana or any other illegal drug. Although many of their "characters" like Cerpin Taxt abuse drugs, this does not mean that they necessarily follow suit. I think these drug references should be removed until we have a more objective view of this situation. (As an aside, I should like to point out that I don't really care if TMV does or doesn't do drugs; I just don't want to misrepresent them here.)
[[User:cassius987|Cassius987]]
:Alright, I am going to remove the drug references that seem somewhat POV, in my mind. If anyone objects to that edit, please discuss it here. [[User:Evilphoenix|EvilPhoenix]] 18:29, May 19, 2005 (UTC)
I think that EvilPhoenix's edit was definitely the right move since the band is supposedly clean right now (minus marijuana use by Omar, for its "songwriting enhancing" properties). [[User:Matterson52|Matterson52]]
Actually, it's a well known fact both of the guys freebase cocaine. They've even commented saying it's helped them very much with their music. [[User:153.104.16.114|153.104.16.114]] 15:11, 1 December 2005 (UTC)
:Can you provide evidence that asserts this? Saying somethings a "well known fact" isn't really enough, we have to be able to back it up with evidence. [[User:Evilphoenix|Ëvilphoenix]] <sup><small><b>[[User_talk:Evilphoenix|Burn!]]</b></small></sup> 18:56, 4 December 2005 (UTC)
ok, here is my anonymous two cents on this.
http://www.goldstandardlabs.com/press_clips_bands/mars_volta/marsvolta_press.html#
in summary, cedric says he has "been clean for three years" (in last column) buuuut he claims he gets high just to change his perspective, but only after playing.
Actually, that is what Omar said (about getting high).
Another thing is that i know for a fact that they used to do drugs, they used to do it all of the time untill one of their friends died, which the first album is about, he shot up with rat posin, and because of it his arm got messed up. They called him Frankenstein. Weather or not they still use drugs i dont know, but i do know that they used to.(It was up a long time ago on their website and the story behind the first album.)
Still another fact, i have a quote from an interview. It backs the statement above with the death of a good friend from an overdose.
"...diary discovered by former Volta bandmate Jeremy Ward while he was employed as a repo man. Before Ward's 2003 death from an apparent overdose, he took it upon himself to finish..."
The rest of the article can be found here. http://www.mtv.com/news/articles/1537073/20060725/mars_volta.jhtml?headlines=true
NOVEMBER 2006 ISSUE OF HARP: OMAR AND CEDRIC CLEARLY STATE THEY SMOKED CRACK AND SHOT HEROIN FOR CREATIVE PURPOSES. STATED THEY WERE NOT STEREOTYPICAL "USERS" AS THEY GOT HIGH AND STAYED HOME AND PAINTED AND CREATED MUSIC. VERIFIED THAT THEY RE-EVALUATED THEIR DRUG USE AFTER THE DEATH OF WARD AND THE SUCCESS OF THE BAND CAME AFTER THEY GOT "CLEAN" -- OMAR SAYS HE CURRENTLY DOES NOT USE ALCOHOL, CAFFEINE OR SUGAR. GREAT ARTICLE: http://harpmagazine.com/articles/detail.cfm?article_id=4807 -- KRYSSTOFFER RODRIGUEZ-LOPEZ
== Punk Rock... ==
I'm not sure about my classification of Mars Volta as punk rock, but it's the closest thing I could think of. - [[User:CrazyCanuck|CrazyCanuck]]
I'd say they are a primarily Progressive Rock band instead of Punk Rock..
----
i saw the mars volta at the filmore last year in SF, and hands down it was the best show ive ever been to. [[User:JoeSmack|JoeSmack]] [[User talk:JoeSmack|(talk)]]
---- I dont agree with the punk rock theory I believe Mars Volta has made up a completely new style of musical entertainment. Therefore I'm just gonna call it bada$$.----fan
If you read any interview about The Mars Volta, speaking about their 'style', they specifically say that they are a form of Punk Rock. (Punk Rock is not based on sound, or style) They are The Mars Volta, leave it at that. They make what they like (which is what music is all about, not style, or fitting into any catagory) - Another Fan
Of course punk rock is based on sound. It doesn't matter what the band says. If they call themselves folk we wouldn't classify them as folk. The classification is to tell people what they sound like. --[[User:Macarion|Macarion]] 21:28, 12 July 2006 (UTC)
------------------------------------------------------
I believe they are classified as Progressive/Psychedelic and Latin Jazz.
:Definitely not punk rock. --[[User:83.245.209.13|83.245.209.13]] 14:58, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
== Fix ==
Fixed the information about Jeremy, mainly just cleaning / polishing it (and fixing the spelling of Inertiatic from "In<b>t</b>ertiatic".
Added information about L'via.
== Major Revision ==
== Cleaning Service ==
Good, it's up for cleaning. Now perhaps some work will get done. [[User:Crtrue|Crtrue]]
== New Tour Info ==
I put up that they were touring with SOAD "in Europe beginning May 27th" and someone took it down to replace it with "in the USA" which is just plain wrong. Please dont change it back again.
THE MARS VOLTA BY CHRISTIAN
i do not know them yet but i'm starting to get interested in them bit by bit i hear from a friend called MATT that they are good , we do both muck about sometimes like me saying there crap or that matt prooving a point about '''john frusciante''' being in the mars volta band.
And i believe that it is true that he actually played in the band .
so i think it's good that they have played with '''the chili's''' on tour and the '''john frusciante''' who made de-loused by the commatorium
'''(i think they're great)'''
christian
==[[:Image:MARS VOLTA3.jpg]] has been listed for deletion==
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== Intro song? ==
"The music sample that The Mars Volta use to introduce their live shows is the title theme to the film A Fistful of Dollars, composed by Ennio Morricone."
I was always under the impression they were using The extacy of gold, which is from The Good, the Bad and the Ugly.
:: no [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 03:35, 11 February 2006 (UTC)
Yeah, it's definetly Fistfull of dollars, although the extro music lately has been the dr. who theme. [[User:The Guilty Undertaker|The Guilty Undertaker]] 02:55, 27 July 2006
== Suggestion ==
Maybe the topic should be locked so nobody can edit it due to the recent vandalism around it. [[User:CanbekEsen|Can]] 12:43, 28 February 2006 (UTC)
== Regarding Studio Habits ==
I think it's somewhat erroneous to claim that "only the best trained studio musicians" are able to play simply to the beat of a metronome. Though it is indeed more common to record an individual part over a recording of a full band, recording to just a click track is by no means unheard of, or particularly virtuosic. Thanks.
[[User:TSBeebout|TSBeebout]] 17:11, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
Actually, I find this whole sentence (which was edited yesterday): "This is not any indication that the other members of the band lack anything musically or creatively - instead, quite the contrary, as the musicians recorded to the pulse of a metronome." To be kind of unnecesary. I could be wrong but is it actually necessary to defend the fact that omar wrote everything? I just think the article would be better with this entire sentence removed, or we could just change it to state that in order to record the album the members had to record with a metronome or something... rather than have that whole "defend their musical honor" twist it has now...
[[User:Alexhack|Alexhack]] 7 April 2006
== Why Mudvayne? ==
At the beginning of the "Live at the Electric Ballroom" concert video, Cedric says "Hello. We're Mudvayne." Does anyone have any idea why? I don't think they opened for TMV because the Electric Ballroom concert took place during their first album, and Mudvayne was a well-established band during that time. Either way, both of them are bands that have since gone to pot, but it just struck me as curious. [[User:sitinthechair|sitinthechair]] 12 April 2006
:: I'm pretty sure it was probably a joke. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 06:19, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
:: Obviously, but I was wondering if anybody had any idea what context the joke was in. [[User:Sitinthechair|sitinthechair]] 13 April 2006
::Omar during an interview was having the line up to the Big Day Out read to him and he professed his distatste for Mudvaye. So I joke I guess.
::Makes sense. Thanks. [[user:Sitinthechair|sitinthechair]] 29 April 2006
* I thought he says "Hello, we're ''Mars thing''" [[User:LIllIi|LIllIi]] 23:08, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
:: I assumed it was because of M(ars) V(olta) and M(ud) V(ayne). [[User:88.108.71.164|88.108.71.164]] 01:18, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
::: Its pretty much because Omar said he hated Mudvayne. He definitely said Mudvayne, and thats the reason! Anything else sounds like a conspiracy theory almost. "I thought it was because they both have 9 letters!" [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] 05:15, 4 February 2007 (UTC)
: In general, I believe both Cedric and Omar hate Mudvayne (which I think is possibly because of what happened at the '01 BDO). In an interview leading up to the '06 Big Day Out, Omar was asked what he thought of the other bands on the bill - he said he looking forward to catching The Stooges and then simply said "Oh God..." when asked about Mudvayne. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/203.129.150.75|203.129.150.75]] ([[User talk:203.129.150.75|talk]]) 03:23, 2 April 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
::-Yeah, its established now that that is the reason he said that, mudvayne suck. Maybe someone could find out what interview this was so we can source it. [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] 04:04, 2 April 2007 (UTC)
==Syntax==
The syntax on this page is horrible. The sentences often feel awkward, particularly in the description of the band's origins. We need a good writer to go through and re-write a lot of these sentences.
--[[User:128.205.191.62|128.205.191.62]] 00:09, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
== Where's the book? ==
Does anyone know where to find the storybook about Cerpin Taxt mentioned in the "De-Loused" section?
:[http://www.goldstandardlabs.com/marsvolta/DeLoused_storybook.pdf Here]. [[User:CanbekEsen|Can]] 14:35, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
Thanks. Good book.
Hey, that link has become a bit '404' if you know what i mean, anyone else got a valid link for a pdf of the book? ([[User:218.215.138.170|218.215.138.170]] 23:31, 17 March 2007 (UTC))
==Paul's Arrival==
Somebody just changed Paul's date from 2005 to 2003, saying that he joined right after Ward's death. I know the announcement was not until 2005, and I'm pretty sure no band who is touring would wait two years to announce that a member left (Sparta). Does anyone have a reference for the year 2003?
[[User:Matterson52|Matterson52]] 14:43, 12 May 2006 (UTC)
-He started in 2003, filling in for the rest of the tour, and none in 2004 but his first official show (That is appeared on stage as a band member) was June 2nd 2005, but he has been playing with them as early as July 1st 2003.
Why the hell is he listed as pablo on their albums? [[User:The Guilty Undertaker|The Guilty Undertaker]] 15:00, 27 July 2006
== History/The beginning ==
Ends with "Tremulant was a collection of three"... three...? -- PS: I really love this band and look forward to their new album. [[User:Ran J.|Ran J.]] 16:53, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
==Updates==
I made a few updates regarding the 2006 tour, 2007 tour and the meaning of the mars volta. All this can be verified through a radio interview on August 22nd, 2006 by FM949 in San Diego. Omar mentions a ton of information so I will update as I find nessacary. You can find a link to the interview on thecomatorium.com/board
A source is needed for the switch magazine, otherwise it will be removed. Soon.
You can find the san diego interview here, which was originally listed as a source for the fourth alblum, but somebody deleted it and added switch magaizine yet gave no source.
http://www.thecomatorium.com/board/index.php?showtopic=65901&hl=san+diego
Time to update the pic since Jon is not in the band anymore -- Krysstoffer Rodriguez-Lopez
:It's the only decent pic of the band that isn't just Omar and Cedric, so for now its ok. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 02:35, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
== POV? ==
"Although it's innovative, Amputechture is trying to emulate the glory of such greats such as King Crimson and Yes, but falling way behind track according to some critics. Although new for some people, others see it as a copy or ripp off from the real greats of progressive music, nothing new for those who saw those great bands in the past. Amputechture is nothing to be that impressed about, unless you are ignorant in real progressive rock."
Pure POV shite. I'm not the least bit indignant because I'm a fan (alright, maybe I am).
:Besides being poorly written, its POV to the max and therefore was removed. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 03:35, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
== "Glue Manager & Blade Server?" ==
I noticed this when it was added to the "mars volta group" section and didn't think it made any sense, but decided to wait and see if someone else removed it. I don't exactly know what a glue manager is, forgive my ignorance, but my first thought on seeing it was that it was some allusion to glue sniffing and drugs or whatever.
If someone can tell me what a glue manager is and confirm that this guy is indeed the band's personal advisor on all things glue related, then that's cool, but if not then it should be removed.
:I couldn't tell if it was vandalism myself either[[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 19:53, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
::-Okay, I finally removed this. I noticed that now there is a "blade server" as well, and I'll do the same again - give someone ample time to explain what one even is and provide a source that this guy is the band's fulfiller of this role. I've a feeling the result will be the same this time though. I can't help but feel someone somewhere is laughing at the fact we're discussing some sort of inside joke :/ [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] 23:08, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:::-Ok, that seems long enough, I'm removing this. Although I actually found out what a blade server is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blade_server - However I can't really see how this relates to a live band's tech crew, my only guess is they use it to record live shows straight to a hard drive? However, if you can explain all this, please do so here and re-add it to the article.
== Links ==
I am adding back the link to the Comatorium website, removed by [[User:JoeSmack | JoeSmack]], as this is linked to from the Mars Volta's official site as being their official forum. --[[User:Lakerdonald|Lakerdonald]] 01:49, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
:technically the mypsace is official too, but wtvr. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 08:52, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
::iawtc --[[User:Lakerdonald|Lakerdonald]] 17:25, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
:::I think we should leave it be now, what say you? --[[User:Lakerdonald|Lakerdonald]] 18:59, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
== That picture on the page... ==
Is, to be honest, horrible. You can't really see the darn people. Should we try and find a better one? [[User:Dieter Weber|Dieter Weber]] 04:18, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
:I'm open to suggestions for new pics. Unfortunately there exists approximately zero pictures of the whole band. In terms clear non-live shots the best we can do are ones that include band members who have left and/or are missing additional band members. At least there are individual pics of each bandmember on their own bio pages. And if it's any consolation this one at least gives people a taste of what their live shows look like... [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 08:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
::Yeah, you're right. I suppose I'll just have to deal with it. xD It's no big deal, I was just thinking it'd be better if we could see their faces. C'est la vie. Maybe something will come up later. [[User:Dieter Weber|Dieter Weber]] 20:55, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
==I have this pic in my photobucket -- very recent and clearly every band member -- if u wanna use it --
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j284/matrixjunkie/marsvoltagroup.png -- Krysstoffer Rodriguez-Lopez
:-Err, I vote against this, it has some writing on, and a load of random people who aren't in the band, plus its too "wacky." Taken from someone's sig on the comatorium in fact I think its Zopwx2s! Not suitable as the main pic though <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] ([[User talk:Olliemilne|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Olliemilne|contribs]]) 15:14, 16 January 2007 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
::Yah I was the one who made that pic. But I'm against using it for several reasons. First and foremost it is a private photo stolen from someones myspace/photobucket. Also it includes several non-members and paul is missing. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 01:45, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
<<at minimum there should be a pic where you can actually see the members -- and since this page is for "The Mars Volta" (which is Omar and Cedric) and not "The Mars Volta Group" a pic of Omar and Cedric should be fine -- but i'm sure the fanatics wont agree with that - trying to find a pic of the Mars Volta Group is going to be impossible -- like there are ever going to be over a dozen members in the same room at the same time for a photo.
:"fanatic" or not I vote against a picture of just omar and cedric. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 17:20, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
:: Yeah, this page is about the band and history and works of that band. Up until amputechture (the majority of the band's existence) the mars volta did include everyone else in the band. If people want pictures and info about cedric and omar, they'll go to their respective pages. I think its fine as it is now. It kind of points out the scale of a mars volta live show. although there may be some better wide shots of the whole band out there somewhere, its all good for now. [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] 18:03, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
:::-Whoever keeps editing the photo needs to chill out, regardless of what the liner notes for amp say, people do not consider just cedric and omar to be "the mars volta". don't bring that "mars volta group" nonsense into it either. [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] 05:46, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
Plus they are inserting the image wrong, not to mention "OmarCedric1.jpg" doesn't even exist. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 08:18, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
mars volta group nonsense -- FAN-A-TIC
:- Is this supposed to be an insult aimed at me, Mr/Mrs 68.15.42.20? If I'm a fanatic you're an Omar/Cedric fanboy, an even worse thing to be. For the majority of their career, The Mars Volta has meant the entire group. It says on several albums, "The Mars Volta is: *all members*. Only since Amputechture has the mars volta group existed. So it hasn't always been like this or anything, its a recent development and it'd be confusing for people unfamilar with the band to see just two people and the information that the mars volta is just two people. What about all the other instruments? etc. They rest of the band isn't exactly a rotating array of session musicians (except the drummers it seems, hopefully not a sign of things to come), each person has a history with the group. Maybe in the future there will end up being this never ending rotating of members, sort of like Frank Zappa's band, who turned from the Mothers of Invention to just Frank Zappa, with different musicians on every tour, almost. In that case a photo of just cedric and omar would be more suitable. But as this is a recent development, a photo of all the members makes more sense. The whole Mars Volta group thing isn't mentioned in the article anymore, maybe it should be if someone can write it in in a neutral way. Just mention the fact that this is a new development, compared to DITC and FTM when every member was listed as the Mars Volta, not how its good becoz omer writes everyfing/bad becoz omar sux.
:So in conclusion, there are my reasons for why I think the photo of everyone should stay. If 68.15.42.20 wants to post why they think it should be just Omar and Cedric, then post it here. Let's have a lively debate! Don't just turn to anonymous personal attacks because you didn't get your own way. Thanks. [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] 21:18, 30 January 2007 (UTC)
==New Drummer==
Although the rumor is that [[Thomas Pridgen]] is going to be the new drummer, I think we should hold off on adding him in until it becomes offical and/or we see him on stage again. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 00:55, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
:well pridgen himself now says that he is the new drummer. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 04:22, 21 January 2007 (UTC)
::Can someone reference that? --[[User:oKtosiTe|<font color="red">oKto</font><font color="green">siTe</font>]] [[User_talk:oKtosiTe|<font color="blue">''talk''</font>]] 17:14, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
:::-You want a reference that hes the new drummer? Hes been it for months now. How about www.myspace.com/themarsvolta - pridgen is listed as a member. They havent updated the website in a while and the comatorium has no contact with the band or management anymore, so thats the only source I can find. Hes also in videos, pictures, etc. He is the drummer for the band, no question. [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] 17:36, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
::::I guess I should have read into it a little more (and looked at the comment's date) before posting that... Cheers! --[[User:oKtosiTe|<font color="red">oKto</font><font color="green">siTe</font>]] [[User_talk:oKtosiTe|<font color="blue">''talk''</font>]] 18:16, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
:::::-Haha no worries, I figured you'd missed the dates of the comments. But those few months were a pretty confusing time regarding drummers so its easy to get confused. [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] 19:23, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
== Fourth Album section ==
Right, this is getting silly, people are reverting it daily.
Some info in that box is correct, other parts are not. But where is the source to say the album comes out on april 24th? I suppose its called "a paradox ivory" too? I call bullshit.
So, I'm removing this section until a compromise can be reached on it. Please post your thoughts on this section, which is currently as follows:
"In an interview for San Diego's FM 94.9 Omar Rodriguez-Lopez stated that he was halfway done with the recording of the fourth album, will begin mixing it in January, and resume touring in February. However, due to inconsistency with drummers, the band has pushed tour dates back until March. He also stated that a DVD about the band, which will document the band's entire history, is in the works."
The 94.9 thingy is unsourced. They're touring in march, not february. As far as we know there is no release date or title for the album, or at least no source. Seeing marcel on the street doesnt count unfortunately.
So, thoughts? [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] 17:50, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
How about we wait until we have a good, solid source on this? We don't need to rush to say they have a new album, especially when we don't actually know if they do. Leave the Fourth Album section removed until we get a source... >.< [[User:Dieter Weber|Stop the War in Uganda!]] 18:13, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
: -Sounds good to me. They're obviously going to do another album so I don't think people need to be told that its coming at some point in the future. I bet it will be readded at some point though. [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] 20:22, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
:: -Yes, I know, they will have a forth album. But there really is no need for a big rush. [[User:Dieter Weber|Stop the War in Uganda!]] 21:27, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
:::Technically everything in that 94.9 paragraph is true, it even mentions them pushing back the tour. But its not big loss if we just leave it out. Also paradox ivory = complete bs. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 23:29, 11 February 2007 (UTC)
::::-Right you are, I should read things more carefully! I think the wording confused me, "and will begin touring in February" makes it seem like it was definitely happening. I know for a fact that the DVD is coming, because there was that thread on the coma where you could ask them a question and they'd answer it. I wonder if that'll happen? probably not. So let's just leave it off, unless someone has any major reason for putting it back on (mr paradox ivory, your reason is not valid.) [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] 00:06, 12 February 2007 (UTC)
== Cryptic lyrics? ==
At 04:52, April 11, 2007, [[User:71.91.69.249|71.91.69.249]] [[User talk:71.91.69.249|talk]] "''removed "cryptic lyrics" as it's 100% opinion, not an actual fact; nor are they "known for it.''"<br />What do you think? --[[User:oKtosiTe|<font color="red">oKto</font><font color="green">siTe</font>]] [[User_talk:oKtosiTe|<font color="blue">''talk''</font>]] 17:13, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
:-Cedric's lyrics are always rather obtuse and difficult to understand so I think thats a fair comment to make myself. I think you can argue that they are known for it somewhat, but omg ther iz no sauce. So we'll have to come to an agreement amongst ourselves over whether its true. I don't actually think the article loses anything by not having this sentence in, but I'm cool with putting it back, if someone wants to, or comment on this. Perhaps the person who removed it would like to say why (yeah thats going to happen) [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] 17:40, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
::I would describe their lyrics as cryptic. A reply seems unlikely... --[[User:oKtosiTe|<font color="red">oKto</font><font color="green">siTe</font>]] [[User_talk:oKtosiTe|<font color="blue">''talk''</font>]] 18:08, 11 April 2007 (UTC)
:::This is the person who edited it, and I have no idea so I'm just assuming this is how I reply. How is there even a question of this not being opinion? If I said they are a "horrible rock band and their lyrics are known for being crap" would this be allowed? Anyway, cryptic is, as they say, in the eye of the beholder. I was just making it more correct I guess.**
Yeah this is what we mean by replying, thanks for doing so! You're right in saying that the lyrics being "cryptic" is in the eye of the beholder. Perhaps instead, it should read something like "lyrics which are difficult to interpret" or "can be interpreted in multiple ways". You can't honestly say that "the kiosk in my temporal lobe is shaped like rosalyn carter" makes perfect sense to you? You can interpret it as a metaphor, but as a logical statement its impossible, there can be no kiosk in cedric's temporal lobe. I realise metaphors are pretty much a cornerstone of the english language but cedrics are so strange in their imagery I really think it deserves a mention. Its a highly nonsensical statement, metaphorical or not. see also "ecto mimed bison", "talons scratch my suite" (sic), etc etc. Cedric's lyrics are so difficult to decipher and so open to interpretation that the comatorium has an entire subforum dedicated to working out what the songs actually mean. This doesn't happen with every band, its pretty clear to me that say, "I wanna rock" by Twisted Sister is about well, wanting to rock. I dunno why I chose that song or band, but you get my meaning. I think that some mention of cedric's lyrical style should be made. "cryptic" suits it reasonably well I think, it means "having hidden meaning"; exactly what cedrics lyrics are. It can also mean "of an obscure nature", also fitting. It seems like the perfect word almost. What do you think? [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] 04:28, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
:I'm not too worried about mentioning cryptic lyrics, becuase they pretty much admit to emphasizing singing with feeling or somethign that sounds good over any specific meanings. [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 04:59, 13 April 2007 (UTC)
== John Fruciante ==
If you look in the Amputechture booklet, it lists John Fruciante as a member of The Mars Volta. Since he did a lot of work with The Mars Volta on Tremulant, Deloused, and Frances the Mute, should we list him under the members list? [[User:Thudunder|Thudunder]] 02:00, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
:[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:The_Mars_Volta#GUEST_MUSCIANS here] [[User:Zopwx2|Zopwx2]] 02:28, 20 April 2007 (UTC)
== Languages ==
Can it be mentioned in the article what languages they sing in? [[User:Badagnani|Badagnani]] 04:25, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
:So, English and Spanish? It's mentioned on Cedric's article that he uses bilingual lyrics, if you can slot it in somewhere go for it, although I don't really feel it's very necessary to the article and people may just remove it. [[User:Olliemilne|Olliemilne]] 19:39, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
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