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'''Jim Coane''' is an award winning television producer, writer and director. He is the creator of PBS' preschool series ''[[Dragon Tales]]''. He is also credited as executive producer on many network, syndication and cable series, including ''Walking the Bible'', ''[[Totally Hidden Video]]'', ''[[Card Sharks]]'', ''Futurequest'', ''[[America's Most Wanted]]'', ''Forces Beyond'', and ''Superstars of Action''.
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*[[Talk:Wii/Move to Nintendo Wii|Requested Move to ''Nintendo Wii''<br /> (17th-22nd May 2006 - consensus: '''Not Moved''')]]
Coane has executive produced over 500 hundred hours of series, specials and pilots for ABC, CBS, NBC, FOX, USA, Turner, Discovery Channel, Learning Channel, PBS, F/X and other broadcasters. He received an [[Emmy award]] for the PBS documentary series ''Futurequest'' and his animated children's series ''[[Dragon Tales]]'' has been nominated three times for an Emmy. He worked on staff in overall producer deals at [[Sony Television]] and [[Fox Television Studios]] and was president of the production division of Unapix Productions.
*[[Talk:Wii/archive1|Archive 1 (May 2005 - July 2005)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive2|Archive 2 (July 2005 - September 2005)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive3|Archive 3 (September 2005 - December 2005)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive4|Archive 4 (December 2005 - March 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive5|Archive 5 (March 2006 - April 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive6|Archive 6 (April 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive7|Archive 7 (Pre-E3 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive8|Archive 8 (E3 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive9|Archive 9 (Post E3 2006 - 20th May 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive10|Archive 10 (20th May 2006 - 31 May 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive11|Archive 11 (June 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive12|Archive 12 (July 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive13|Archive 13 (August 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive14|Archive 14 (Sept 1 2006 - Sept 13 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive15|Archive 15 (Sept 14 2006 - Sept 30 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive16|Archive 16 (Oct 1 2006 - Oct 27 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive17|Archive 17 (Oct 28 2006 - Nov 4 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive18|Archive 18 (Nov 5 2006 - Nov 14 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive19|Archive 19 (Nov 15 2006 - Nov 21 2006)]]
*[[Talk:Wii/archive20|Archive 20 (Nov 21 2006 - Dec 13 2006)]]
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==Biography==
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Born July 31, 1948, in Trenton, N.J., Coane is a graduate of The Hun School of Princeton and Rutgers University. He was married to Amy Fromer in 1984 and has two children, Max and Cassie. He began his career as a producer at MPO Productions in New York City before becoming a director of TV commercials at his production company, Coane Productions, Inc. He is a member of the [[Director's Guild of America]] and the [[Producers Guild of America]]. He currently resides in Santa Monica, CA.
== Television credits ==
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* Dragon Tales - Multi Emmy nominated pre-school animation series.
* Walking The Bible - Three documentary hours hosted by author Bruce Feiler.
* Future Quest - Emmy award winning documentary series. Hosted by Jeff Goldblum.
* Totally Hidden Video - Two seasons of hidden camera comedy series for FOX Network.
* Poker Royale - Poker series for Game Show Network.
* Card Sharks - Nationally syndicated game show based on Goodson/Todman format.
* America's Most Wanted - Producer during premier season of long running FOX series
* Love Behind Bars - Looks at love and relationships in prison.
* Prison Doctors - Profile of health system ni prison.
* Letters From A Nut - Pilot for ABC based on popular book.
* Nothing's On - Pilot for F/X
* Wild on the Set - Series features animal actors and their trainers.
* Totally Out of Control - Focus on totally outrageous and unusual people, machines, weather.
* Forces Beyond - Series investigated both sides of the paranormal debate. Hosted by Nick Mancuso.
* Superstars of Action - Biography series of Hollywood’s greatest action stars, hosted by Robert Wagner.
* Hollywood Stuntmakers - Behind the scenes look at Hollywood’s greatest action movies, hosted by James Coburn.
* Hollywood F/X MASTERS - Thirteen half-hours about Hollywood’s greatest special effects, hosted by Christopher Reeve.
* Record Setters - Three hours that profiles world records.
* Now you See It - Three hours that looks at history and mystery of magic.
* Fifty Years OF Hanna/Barbara Cartoons - TNT - One hour Special hosted by John Goodman.
* Laurie Cooks Light and Easy - Cooking series with author/chef Laurie Burrows Grad.
* Home green Home - Gardening/craft/cooking series for PBS hosted Kelley Shea Smith.
* Simply Style - Fashion and style series for Discovery Network with host/author Leah Feldon.
* Family Values - Hidden camera game show pilot produced for Fox Television.
* Payback - Hidden camera game show pilot produced for Fox Television.
* High School Confidential - Produced and directed soap opera pilot for FOX TV.
==Awards==
== Common Questions & Answers ==
*1990 [[Emmy Award]], for ''Futurequest'' PBS Non-fiction series.
These following questions have been addressed repeatedly (as documented [[Wikipedia:Lamest edit wars#Within English|here]]):
*1999 Emmy nomination, Executive Producer, Best Animated Children's Series, for ''Dragon Tales''
*2000 Parents Choice Award for "Dragon Tales"
*2000 Emmy nomination, Consulting Producer, Best Animated Children's Series, for ''Dragon Tales''
*2001 Emmy nomination, Consulting Producer, Best Animated Children's Series, for ''Dragon Tales''
==External links==
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*{{imdb name|id=0167585|name=James Coane}}
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* [http://movies2.nytimes.com/gst/movies/filmography.html?p_id=279656 Jim Coane filmography at the New York Times]
==="Wii" vs. "Nintendo Wii"?===
* [http://www.amazon.com/gp/imdb/actor/nm0167585 Explore the work of Jim Coane at Amazon.com]
:The first and most frequently asked question -- and the official trademark is just "Wii". See the Talk archives (pages 6 through 10) and the [[Talk:Wii/Move to Nintendo Wii|separately archived survey]] if you need the details.
* [http://tv.yahoo.com/dragon-tales/show/30132/castcrew Dragon Tales cast and crew]
== References ==
==="Wii" vs. "The Wii"?===
* {{cite news
:Obviously, the official trademark is not '''The Wii™''' but '''Wii™'''. People generally call the console "''the'' Wii" (like a common noun), while Nintendo prefers to phrase it as simply "Wii" (like a name) to utilize its similarity to ''we'' (e.g. "Wii will change gaming forever"). A discussion on the subject can be found in [[Talk:Wii/archive18|Archive 18]].
|last=Coane
|first=Jim
|url=http://kidscreen.com/articles/magazine/19991001/26892.html
|title=Dragon Tales
|publisher=Kid Screen Magazine
|date=November,1999}}
==Trivia==
==="Wee" (as in urine)?===
* Coane's children, Max and Cassie, are the basis for two of the character's names in ''[[Dragon Tales]]''. His wife Amy is the namesake for Emmy, another character in the series.
:[[Talk:Wii#A_wee_survey|A strawpoll]] about the mentioning of this word in the article is currently ongoing.
<!-- :There is no need to mention urine in the article, so please don't. For a survey on the subject, see [[Talk:Wii/archive14#WII_.3D_Piss|archive #14]].-->
===Wii Remote strap problems?===
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Information on Wii Remote strap failures and Nintendo's replacement offer are summarized in the article. Further details are documented in the [[Wii Remote]] article. Discussion on the subject can be found [[Talk:Wii#Wii Strap Breakages?|here]].
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[[Category:American television producers]]
== Sensor bar ==
[[Category:American television directors]]
Any idea on which physical principle it works?--[[User:Nemissimo II|Nemissimo II]] 09:08, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
[[Category:American television writers]]
:See [[Wii Remote#Sensing]]. [[User:JQF|JQF]] 17:57, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
[[Category:People from New York City]]
::I'm guessing infrared, like most remotes use. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 05:46, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
[[Category:People from New Jersey]]
:::The bar has infrared LEDs on each side, and the Wiimote detects these and uses this to estimate where on the screen it is pointing. [[User:TheWarlock|TheWarlock]] 16:04, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
[[Category:Living people]]
Hey, on the question about why the American Wiis came with Wii Sports and not the Japanese is simply because Nintendo wanted North American to become more fimilar with Wii's new technology- [[User:J CIP|J CIP]] 20:12, 25 November 2006 (UTC)
Apparently a pair of candles work instead of the sensor bar, i saw a vid on youtube while i was looking at "Wii have a problem." the link is http://www.wiihaveaproblem.com/index.php?p=2, the inserted window under the title "sensor bar optional!?" [[User:69.210.208.47|69.210.208.47]] 23:37, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
The sensor bar emits infrared light at both end of the bar. The remote sees these two lights, and judging from where the lights are in it's field of view, it can see which angle it is pointing relative to the screen. Based on the height of the two lights to each other, it knows if it is tilting one way or the other. Finally, based on how far apart the two lights appear from each other, it knows how close or far away it is from the screen. Adding this information to the remote's own tilt sensing and accelerometer (motion sensing), this gives the system a great deal of data explaining the remotes ___location and orientation in 3D space.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v143/Adeon/bar.jpg [[User:Bradibus|Bradibus]] 21:42, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
{{US-stub}}
== should Wiimote be mentioned? ==
Its called the Wii-mote not wii remote, If you dont know about it dont edit it!!!!!!!!!!!!! <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Zach The Video Game Guy|Zach The Video Game Guy]] ([[User talk:Zach The Video Game Guy|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Zach The Video Game Guy|contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:It's called the Wii Remote, not Wii-mote. And this is Wikipedia, the online encyclopedia that ''anyone'' can edit. // [[User:Sasuke-kun27|<font color="blue">'''Sasuk'''</font>]][[User:Sasuke-kun27/E|<font color="green">'''e'''</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Sasuke-kun27|<font color="purple">'''-kun'''</font>]][[User talk:Sasuke-kun27|<font color="black">'''27'''</font>]] 20:55, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
::Sasuke is right, it's called the Wii Remote. It was the press who started saying Wiimote/Wii-mote, but the controller is still the Wii Remote. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 21:39, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
:::I would also like to point out that it's fine to call it the wii-mote on the talk page, just not in the article.--<font color="red">[[User:Farquaadhnchmn|Farquaadhnchmn]]</font><font color="green"><sub>([[User talk:Farquaadhnchmn|Dungeon]])</sub></font> 01:01, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
::::I'm sorry, but doesn't it at least deserve a mention in the article? If no other reason than for clarification of the distinction between the two? I believe that the word wiimote, which I believe was coined by Matt Cassimisina at IGN Wii, has had a profound effect on many people's perception of Nintendo PR and Marketing. In fact, I remember an interview with [[Perrin Kaplan]], VP of Big N's Marketing in the US, where she specifically said that someone had made a slip during a speech and had called it a Wiimote, making the joke that Matt had done some marketing spin for them. [[User:LavaHot|LavaHot]] 09:35, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
:Although Nintendo has referred to it as the Wii-mote before, the retail package used in North America reads "Wii Remote / Télécommande Wii / Control Remoto Wii." "Wii Remote" seems to have been their final decision for the English name. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 05:45, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
::Wii Remote was always the correct name. Every statement released by Nintendo (not interviews with PR people) only says Wii Remote. Also, The Wii Remote page makes mentione of the incorrect name. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 05:48, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
:::ok, Wii Remote is the correct name, bu i haven't heard anyone say wii remote in everyday conversation for months. as just about everyone calls it by the incorrect name i think it diserves to be mentioned in the artical. [[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]]
::::The only people i've seen call it Wiimote are people on messageboards. It's mentioned on the Wii Remote that it's unofficially called that. No need to mentione the wrong name anywhere else. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 00:07, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
:::::Have you even discussed it outside of messageboards? the point of wikipedia isn't to provide some information on some topics. the point is to be an encyclopedia and like it or not the wiimote is most often refered to as wiimote not wii remote.[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 00:09, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
::::::TJ already said that "Wiimote" is mentioned in the [[Wii Remote]] article. Besides, just because one name is used more frequently than another name doesn't mean we have to say it everywhere.
[[pl:Jim Coane]]
::::::P.S. - You misspelled encyclopedia. // [[User:Sasuke-kun27|<font color="blue">'''Sasuke'''</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Sasuke-kun27|<font color="purple">'''-kun'''</font>]][[User talk:Sasuke-kun27|<font color="black">'''27'''</font>]] 00:13, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
[[pt:Jim Coane]]
:::::::i'll grant that but even so we should mention it to try and prevent as much confusion as possable. Both my mom and the guy i bought my wii from thought that the wiimote and wii remote were two different things. we can help to prevent this type of misconception by simply sticking in, "sometimes refered to as the wiimote or wii-mote."[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 22:30, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::The wrong name should be used as little as possible. There is a link already to the Wii Remote page, we should try and provide factual and correct info and not spread the idead that Wiimote is in any way correct. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 22:32, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::What's the nature of wrong and right? If the public commonly refers to it as the Wiimote, then it's at least worth mentioning. Similarly, PS3 isn't a trademark of Sony, and yet it's used continunously in the article and in general to refer to the system. [[User:221.19.139.92|221.19.139.92]] 04:08, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
::The company does call it the PS3 as well, Nintendo doesn't call it the Wiimote (I said company, Reggie mentioning it in a friendly conversation isn't official). [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 00:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Wikipedians should not seek to determine who is "right" or "wrong." They should instead follow procedure to determine common usage on an objective basis. Use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things. The most common use of a name takes precedence. If the common name conflicts with the official name, use the common name except for conflicting scientific names. The name "Wiimote" is 1.61 times more prevalent than "Wii Remote" in the Google search excluding the term "wikipedia" and only showing results in English (other languages uses are not relevant on the English Wikipedia). Below are Google result numbers as retrieved on [[November 27]] [[2006]].
*The query [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&client=safari&rls=en&as_qdr=all&q=%22Wii-mote%22+-Wikipedia&btnG=Search&lr=lang_en "Wii-mote"] yielded 564,000 results.
*The query [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&client=safari&rls=en&as_qdr=all&q=%22Wii+controller%22+-Wikipedia&btnG=Search&lr=lang_en "Wii controller"] yielded 739,000 results.
*The query [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&client=safari&rls=en&as_qdr=all&q=%22Wii+remote%22+-Wikipedia&btnG=Search&lr=lang_en "Wii remote"] yielded 900,000 results.
*The query [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&client=safari&rls=en&as_qdr=all&q=%22Wiimote%22+-Wikipedia&btnG=Search&lr=lang_en "Wiimote"] yielded 1,360,000 results.
Is it acceptable to use "Wiimote" as the section name and use "The Wiimote, officially named the Wii Remote, is a one-handed controller that…" as the opening line? [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 04:47, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
:I think it would make more sense to state "The Wii Remote, more commonly named 'Wiimote'..." to avoid confusion. [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] 17:42, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
::i think it has been shown that the term wiimote should be at least breafly mentioned.[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 09:56, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
:::It's mentioned on the Wii Remote page, that is more than enought. Wikipedia is not the pace to help spread misinormation. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 00:38, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
::::wiimote is the most common name for the item, many people think that the wiimoat and wii remote are two different things and wikipedia is a place for all relavent information to be presented.[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 00:49, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
:::::Wiimote is 100% wronf though. Unless you find a good reason to keep it in, then it will be removed. The $300 version of the Xbox 360 is commonly called the Tard Pack, but we don't include that in. Where has anybody been stupid enough to think they are different things? The fact that people incorrectly call it the Wiimote is already mentioned on the Wii Remote page, there is no reason to mention it here as well. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 00:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
::::::I have already given good reasons to include the term "Wiimote." Consider the [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions#Use common names of persons and things|naming conventions]] and the [[Wikipedia:Naming conflict#Proper nouns|naming conflict guide]]. "Wiimote" is not only as commonly used as "Wii remote," but has 161% the hits that "Wii remote" has. "[http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&client=safari&rls=en&as_qdr=all&q=+%22tard+pack%22+-wikipedia&btnG=Search&lr=lang_en Tard pack]" only has 1.3% the hits that "[http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&num=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=Xbox+360+core+console&as_oq=&as_eq=wikipedia&lr=lang_en&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images Xbox 360 core console]" has. Stupidity is not relevant. Titles do not have to be official legal names. Most common usage is what matters. Consider [[Samuel Clemens]]. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 05:09, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
::::::I can't believe you would presume to reply to the talk page without reading what has been said before. you have not made a single new arguement and every one you have raised has already been refuted. if you had read just my past posts you would be awear of two people who thought they were different. and then there is a third person just today that overheard me talking about the wiimote with a friend and, thinking he would join in, stated that he thoughtthe wii remote was cooler than the wiimote. i am not going to discuss this with you any more untill you read the past posts on the subject. it just shows how terrably stupid you are when you try to enter a written debate without reading what has already been said.[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 04:05, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
::::::::Please get your facts straight son. I did read the repies, none of my points have been refuted (the main one being that the only correct name is Wii Remote). Your "friend" thinking they are different is not proof. Even if you had [[Wikipedia:Reliable sources|reliable sources]] (which you don't) that anybody is foolish enough to think that "Wii Remote" and "Wiimote" are different things, it wouldn't make a difference. Mentioning the wrong name on the Wii Remote page is more than enough. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 04:33, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
::::::::: "Wiimote" is nothing more then slang, and is mentioned in the separate article. Do I call it the "Wiimote"? Yes, but that doesn't make it the correct term. [[User:ConnertheCat | ConnertheCat]] 15:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::"Wiimote" is not slang. "Slang - Language that is outside of conventional usage" - [[wiktionary:slang]]. "Wiimote" is definately in conventional usage. It's even more-used than "Wii remote." [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 16:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::::Wiimote is slang, and is not the correct term for the controller. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 17:53, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
::::::::::::Whether or not it's slang, it's still the most commonly used term for the controller. There are guidelines that support using the most commonly used name of a subject. According to Wiktionary "Wiimote" is not slang.[[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 19:58, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
:::::::|[[Image:OrangePillar.png|35px]] ||'''[[Wikipedia:Etiquette|Wikipedia has a code of conduct]]''': Respect your fellow Wikipedians even when you may not agree with them. Be [[Wikipedia:Civility|civil]]. Avoid making [[Wikipedia:No personal attacks|personal attacks]] or sweeping generalizations. [[Wikipedia:Stay cool|Stay cool]] when the editing gets hot; avoid [[Wikipedia:Edit war|edit wars]] by following the [[Wikipedia:Three-revert rule|three-revert rule]]; remember that there are {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}} articles on the English Wikipedia to work on and discuss. Act in good faith, [[Wikipedia:Do not disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point|never disrupt Wikipedia to illustrate a point]], and [[Wikipedia:Assume good faith|assume good faith]] on the part of others. Be open and welcoming. 04:32, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Stop arguing! And for the record, it is called the Wii-mote. Check the nintendo page for the wii, it says it on that web page. So, someone change the name of the remote to the Wii-mote!! Oh, and you can also hook up another part to the remote called the Nunchuck. Oh and also, how can anyone edit it if you keep protecting it you [Thoughtless comment removed.]! <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:24.63.18.184|24.63.18.184]] ([[User talk:24.63.18.184|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/24.63.18.184 |contribs]]) {{{2|}}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:[[Wikipedia:Five pillars|Be civil]]. If you would like to edit a semi-protected page, you can do one of three things - Register/Login, [[Wikipedia:Requests for page protection#Current requests for unprotection|request for unprotection]], or discuss your change in the talk page. The Wii Remote is called the Wii-mote by lots of people, but the official name is "Wii Remote." Where exactly on Nintendo's website do they still call it the "Wii-mote?" All I can find is "Wii Remote." [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 00:51, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
::Also, it's spelled "Nunchuk" and not "Nunchuck". [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 01:01, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
TJ Spyke, would you please continue to discus here. You had stopped responding to the discussion here. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 01:51, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
:The policy applies to the main article. The Wii Remote article does mentione the wrong name, that doesn't mean that every article that mentions the controller needs to mention the wrong name. The commn usage policy says to use that for the object's article, and like I have said before it does. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 02:05, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
::The naming convention (common names) guideline, by the way, says to use the most common name in the article's title. This is not being done on the [[Wii Remote]] article. Why should it not be mentioned here? The main article mentions it. It's not hurting anything. To clarify to readers that "Wiimote" is not the official name, how about starting the section with "The Wii Remote, unofficially known as the Wiimote, is a…" This would teach readers that "Wiimote" is not the official name which would have a side effect of deterring angry people telling us what name is the "right" name on this talk page. Many people use the term "Wiimote." Many of them might be interested to know that it isn't the official name. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 02:44, 1 December 2006 (UTC)
:::I cannot believe this discussion is happening. The official name is Wii Remote, that's a fact. By not having the "unoffocial name" "Wiimote" in the article, I believe people would realize that the official name is the Wii Remote. Also, I see that you used Google as part of your argument, I'd like to point out that Google searches are not definititive, terms can often be spammed to increase the count. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 03:20, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Yes, "Wii Remote" is the official name. I'm not saying that the official name isn't "Wii Remote," I'm saying that "Wiimote" is the more common term for this subject and should be included. The Google tests show wich terms are most commonly used. The [[Wikipedia:Google|Google page]] says that the Google test is great for determining popular usage. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 05:46, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Also, please refer to the Q & A section at the top of this talkpage. [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Wii#Common_Questions_.26_Answers] We don't call it The Wii, or the Nintendo Wii, the official name is Wii. Similarly, we don't call it the Wiimote, or the Penis, the official name is Wii Remote. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 03:41, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::I agree that "Wii" is a good title for this article. "Wii" is about four times more common than "Nintendo Wii." The term "Wiimote" is used much more often than "Penis" to refer to the Wii Remote. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 05:46, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
::::The term "Nintendo Wii" seems to be more common than "Wii" in retail marketing (for clarity if nothing else), and referring to the console with a "the" is common grammar for mass-produced items (as contrasted to a company or group name, such as Apple or Microsoft). As for the Wii Remote, I agree with Jecowa's last statement in that the nickname "Wiimote" is already mentioned in the Wii Remote article, but for sake of factual accuracy needs little to no mention in ''other'' articles which refer to it. --''[[User:Stratadrake|Stratadrake]] 04:15, 2 December 2006 (UTC)''
::::::It is factually accurate that "Wii Remote" is the official name. It is also factually accurate that "Wiimote" is more common than "Wii Remote." [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 05:46, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::The only people I see saying "Nintendo Wii" are people like retailers, who usually get many terms wrong, but that's besides the point. I think the mention in the Wii Remote article is enough. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 04:34, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::Lots of people besides retailers call it the Wiimote, but that's besides the point. I don't think the mention in the Wii Remote article is enough. Users have changed "Wii Remote" to "Wiimote" a many times on this article. People have made it known that "Wiimote" is the official term on this talk page. Clearly, the article as is isn't making it clear enough that "Wii Remote" is the official term. By explicitly mentioning that although "Wiimote" is more commonly used it is not the official name, people will be less likely to think that it is wrong and change it. The naming convention suggests that the the most common name be used. Because we are not, it should be mention what the most common name at the article and it's section here. If we do not mention it here, then I think we should move the article "Wii Remote" to "Wiimote" per [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names)|common usage]]. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 05:46, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::::I completely disagree. The solution is simple, next to all mentions of Wii Remote, put in hidden text the following: "Do not change this to Wiimote, see discussion." [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 06:09, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::::Dionyseus is correct, just put it in hidden text. That way if someobody tries to put in the wrong name they will see they are not supposed too. There is no reason to habe to mention the wrong name on articles other than the one about the controller. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 04:36, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::::Yes, putting notes in the source would help. It does not hurt to mention the most commonly used name in the article, though. We can do both. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 04:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
::I can't believe this discussion is lasting so long. its not that big a deal. im not asking that we right six paragraphs about the term "wiimote." all i'm asking is for seven words, "more commonly referred to as the wiimote." i don't understand why you think this is going to bring about the downfall of civilized culture and destroy wikipedia as we know it. and T.J.spike, i'm the same age as you are, don't refer to me as son. and you main argument is that there is no point to place "wiimote" under the section on it and this has been refuted. please get you facts straight. [[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 07:52, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Don't try and insult my intelligence if you don't want to be called "son". Also, my argument has not been refuted. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 04:36, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Yes, since the term "Wiimote" is so common, explicitly stating that it is just the more common name would clear up many people's misconceptions. Readers should not have to visit the Wii Remote article to learn this. Being that the unofficial name so much used that it's more common to see than the official name, this information is relevant enough to present here. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 04:06, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
::::This article is not about the Wii Remote though, it's about the system itself. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 04:36, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::if we were to follow the standard rules of debate, i know we aren't but for the proposes of this post i'm going to assume we are, if we were to follow the standard rules of debate it would be the case that any of my points that you didn't counter would be granted. in my last post i made the claim that your main argument is that there is no point to place "wiimote" under the section in discussion. you did not refute this claim and in such you granted it. my subsidiary point was that the claim "there is no point to place "wiimote" under the section in discussion" had been refuted. your response to this was "my argument has not been refuted." you have provided no points to support this and in such you are taking the six year-old's approach to this and simply saying "ua-ua." Also, if you don’t want me to insult your intelligence than try posting an intelligent response. later i'll post a list of your arguments and how they were refuted. [[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] ([[User talk:J.L.Main|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/J.L.Main|contribs]]){{#if:10:09, 3 December 2006 (UTC)| 10:09, 3 December 2006 (UTC)|}}.
::::::Unfortunately you continue your argument, [[User:Jecowa]]. If people truly cared about what the common name for the control is, they can type "Wiimote" in the search bar and they will be redirected to Wii Remote. It's not necessary for the Wii article to contain the common name "Wiimote." I hope you will drop this argument, but if not I guess we will have to undergo dispute resolutions. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 10:23, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::::I'm afraid that necessaty neither is nor should be basis for exclusion. if we were to remove everything in wikipedia that isn't necassary we would hve to remove all of wikipedia. the question is not "is it necassary" the question is, "is it relavent and useful" and the answer is yes. [[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 03:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::"if we were to remove everything in wikipedia that isn't necassary". 100% false. Is it relevant and useful on the Wii Remote page? Yes. Is it relevant and helpful on the Wii page? No. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 04:00, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Sorry your wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_%28common_names%29 Clearly states that the common name is to be used and whilst it talks about the page titles as a special case, it does not make a distinction against titles of things used in a page. It's been demonstrated that its common name is Wiimote. Placing the hidden text about not changing it without consulting the talk page was presumptious because this dispute has not been solved. It is a fact that according to Wikipedia guidelines the title of the section and the title of the separate article should be Wiimote, with the official name mentioned in the text of the article. [[User:Ajmayhew|Ajmayhew]] 14:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
:TJ, it seems you are out voted. You, Jecowa and i are the only constant posters on this discussion page. two of us say it should be included and we provide good backing as to why. you are the only constant poster arguing against it and you have yet to raise one good argument against its inclusion. we have shown that "wiimote" is more than relevant as it is the most commonly used name. We have shown that it is not redundant, more people read this section than read the article on the wiimote and some people don't realize they are the same thing. Now, unless you can show that it is offensive it should be included. I know you find the term offensive, but i'm afraid that your hatred for the term is not criteria for showing it to be offensive. [[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 20:40, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
::I don't find it offensive, it's just that there is no need to mention it on the Wii page. The policy you pointed out applies to the article on the Wii Remote, where "Wiimote" is mentioned. The policy doesn't say that every page where the Wii Remote is mentioned has to include the nickname. It's your opinion I haven't presented a good argument, I know I have. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 21:56, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
:::I think that when [[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] says you find "Wiimote" offensive, he means that the term annoys you as you mention [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wii&diff=80080215&oldid=80077206 in this talk page] and [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wii&diff=80360613&oldid=80360277 this edit summary]. You seem to have some personal problem with the term "Wiimote" considering the remarks you made in [[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wii&diff=87856343&oldid=87855338 this edit summary]. [[Wikipedia:Civility|Civility]] is a rule for edit summaries, by the way. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 04:00, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
::::I hated the term ever since the gaming press started using it because I knew situations like this would happen, and people would think that "Wiimote" is a correct name for the Wii Remote. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 06:26, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
::I tried saying this at the bottom of the page, to make the discussion easier to find, but I'll recap here real quick: "Wiimote" is an entirely acceptable nickname. It isn't "incorrect". There is every reason to use the term on the Wii Remote page. However, there's no need to include nicknames on the page for the system itself. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] ([[User talk:Bladestorm|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Bladestorm|contribs]]) 22:26, 5 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
::: The policy applies to every use of the name of the article, not just the title of the page about the article
::::"Except where other accepted Wikipedia naming conventions give a different indication, use the most common name of a person or thing that does not conflict with the names of other people or things
:::Where's the distinction? [[User:155.198.149.16|155.198.149.16]] 11:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
::::TJ, you don't even provide a defence of yourself. the only thing you say to defend yourself against my claim that you fail to defend your position is "I do to defend my position" that being said... WOULD A MOD PLEASE MAKE A DISITION HERE!!!! I DON"T CARE WHO"S SIDE YOU TAKE, I JUST WHANT THE ARGUMENT TO STOP!!!!!![[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 06:21, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::I have provided a defense, but you choose to ignore it. BTW, technically there aren't any mods here, I think you mean Admin. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 06:26, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::Don't you mean 'decision'? Alos, on the one below it is 'thus' or possibly 'those', not 'thuse'[[User:Zarroc|Zarroc]] 11:08, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::::Fine, tell me what is is then. like this,
1. wiimote is a stupid term. thuse it is irrelevant
2. only wiinies use the term wiimote. thuse it is superfoulis
ok? you do that and then i'll either consend and drop the point or tell you why each of your points fails to prove you position. than you can post why i'm incurrect. we keep the 1,2,3 format so that it can be more appearent who is correct. also, make sure to include what you are arguing, is it superfoulis, irrelevant, or offensive?[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 06:36, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
::I thought it had been made clear why "Wiimote" only needs to be mentioned on the Wii Remote page, but fine. When I log back on tomorrow we can do that, and anybody else can do the same thing. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 06:40, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
I think it's quite clear that "Wiimote" is more commonly used and therefore deserves at least a "...[[Wii Remote]], sometimes referred to as ''Wiimote'',..." statement in the [[Wii]] article. It doesn't matter which term is the official or unofficial one. As long as "Wiimote" is a frequent term - even more frequent than "Wii Remote" - it ''deserves'' to be mentioned in the Wii article. [[User:Lord E|Lord E]] 14:53, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
i assume you mean the wiimote section of the wii artical. the wiimote artical already mentions it.[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 23:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
TJ, its been two days. where are your arguments? did you discover they were indeed non-existent? if you don't reply soon i'm going to assume you have conceded.[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 06:49, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
:I can't speak for TJ but I have certainly not conceded. The word "Wiimote" does not need to be mentioned in this article, for the reasons I have stated above. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 07:25, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
::all you've said is that it is superfluous because it is mentioned in the wii remote article. you have not addressed the claim that it is important enough to be mentioned in both places.[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 07:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
:::I believe my reasons are good enough. If you disagree, I guess we should move on to the next step in the dispute resolution process, an RfC. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 08:48, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
::::i agree completely that we should move on to the next step. when the debate on weather or not to add "more commonly referred to as wiimote" becomes longer than the actual argument, then it is time to move on to the next step of dispute resolution.[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 13:39, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Hey, what about a vote. If i ask everyone to vote on weather or not the term wiimote should be mentioned will everyone here abide by the decision of the masses? since logical argumentation isn't getting us anywhere i think a vote is a good solution.[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 03:12, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::No, I want to go by policy rather than what the masses want. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 03:16, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::::You can't go by "policy" because it doesn't cover such trivial issues. For example, both [[Grasshopper Manufacture]] and [[Goichi Suda]] refer to Suda's nickname, Suda 51. I suggest you ask at [[WT:CVG]] and [[WP:RFC]] for some outside input. As for myself, I really don't give a damn. - [[User:Hahnchen|hahnch]][[Evil|<span title="WP:Esperanza"><font color="green">e</font></span>]][[User:Hahnchen|n]] 04:19, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::::you want to go by polacy? does that mean you are switching over to the side of truth, aka the one that wants it mentioned? cause every policy that i know of either wouldn't apply or would have it metioned here.[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 04:25, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
:you guys are all idiots. Nintnedo power launched information about how people in japan who signed up as a nintendo rewards member during a certain time frame recieved a television remote shaped exactly like a wii controller with the exact same button layout. this remote was packaged and released as the official "Wii-mote". The official name for the wii controllers are the "Wii Remotes"
[[User:Bobcheezy|Bobcheezy]] 00:44, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
::first, with one exception i think we are all reasonably intelligent. sorry, now that you’ve posted i guess there are two exceptions. second, the TV remote being called a "wii-mote" has little barring on this conversation. we are all in agreement about the official name. the discussion is on whether or not the term "wiimote" should be mention in the section on the wii remote as it is more commonly referred to as wiimote.[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 01:26, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Would you idiots stop reverting each other for a moment?'''. I logged a RfC because none of you have the presence of mind to escalate the dispute resolution process. Stop editing the damn article until we get some external commentary.[[User:Sockatume|Sockatume]] 12:12, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
:I told him we should escalate to an RfC on the 10th, [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AWii%2Farchive20&diff=93333047&oldid=93325821] apparently [[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] preferred to simply revert. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 17:31, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
::J.L.Main agreed to your request for comment on the same day.[http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wii/archive20&diff=next&oldid=93349850] Why didn't you request one? [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 03:38, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:::He's the one that wants to include the nickname, he should have requested the RfC instead of revert warring. As noted by one of his revert summaries, he actually thought revert warring would help us reach some sort of agreement: [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wii&diff=94031203&oldid=94024790] [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 03:48, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::You didn't make it clear that you expected him to do it before. The way you said it, it sounded like requesting a comment would be something you would both do together. I don't think he would have started changing the article if someone would had continued to discuss with him on the talk page or requested a comment. Do you think he knows how to request a comment? He didn't even know the 3RR applied to a 24-hour period. RfC was your suggestion. Why didn't you do it? Is there a rule saying that the party wishing to include a nickname should be the party to request the comment? [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 04:44, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::I expected [[User:J.L.Main]] to request it, instead he continued to try to force his edit without concensus. Besides, [[User:Sockatume]] has requested an RfC earlier today, we shall await the comment. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 05:01, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::I'm sorry. I've never participated in an RfC before, but since an RfC has already been requested, should we prepare a neutral statement before the commenter gets here? Here's an example of an [[Wikipedia:Requests for comment/Article RfC example|RfC statement]]. In the example it looks like one person from every side makes a comment for the statement. In our case we have two sides, correct? [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 05:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::::After i agreed to move on to the next stage of dispute resolution Dionyseus stopped posting here. my rv. to the main page were intended to get his attention so that he would start posting here again and we would be able to move on. And i would like to point out, '''it worked!!!'''[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 20:34, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
This discussion has been taken much further than is really needed. Wii Remote and Wii-mote, as far as I know, are not used more than the other by a significant margin. I have friends who each prefer different terms. Regardless, Wikipedia's primary purpose is to dispense information while not completely confusing the reader. I would personally support mention of the "Wii-mote" nickname in the section of this article that discusses the Wii remote. However, in order to avoid confusion, I think that when reading an encyclopedia article a person often expects a "formal" tone to the writer. For this reason, I think that the title for the Wii remote article should remain as the official name. If the nickname Wii remote was used almost exclusively among the population I would be in support of using the Wiimote nickname. More important than those opinions however, is perhaps the resolution issue in a civil manner without any more name calling. Keep in mind that because there is not a significant difference in popular usage between the terms that this tiny bit of information is not nearly as consequential as the length of this disscussion suggests. [[User:Agaib|Agaib]] 05:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Edit: Oops, apologies, I didn't notice the discussion below.
:Agaib, your tone is both civil and respectful. It doesn't go unappreciated. However, while although I too actually like both names, this is the article for the console, not the peripheral. That's what I think it boils down to. Popular nicknames are very much pertinent in articles discussing the wiimote itself, but far less so for articles that are about other topics altogether. Mentioning wiimote in the wii article would almost be like mentioning urine in the "wii remote" article. Are they related? Kinda-ish... I guess... but information is best used where it's most relevant. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 07:20, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::I agree that the term Wiimote or Wii-mote should be mentioned only in the remote article itself, and not the console article. As my 2c of reasoning... a search of "wii remote site:http://www.nintendo.com" on google will return many links, while either a search of "wiimote site:http://www.nintendo.com" or "wii-mote site:http://www.nintendo.com" will return only a few links, none of which contain either reference anywhere on the pages. A look at the cache of those pages shows that the only reason they appear in the results is because links to those pages from outside the Nintendo site contain those terms. In short, Nintendo does not even officially acknowledge the existance of the "wiimote" or "wii-mote" as alternate names for the peripheral; and as such, I believe it should not be included in the brief remote section of the console article. [[User:Pictorkeb|Pictorkeb]] 17:59, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
==Hardware details==
Wasn't it decided to hold off on posting MHz details till IBM, ATI or Nintendo said something on the subject? When did the IGN numbers get added back in? Is there a new more reliable named source for them? The IBM technical specifications on the processor that is suspected to be the Broadway (the 750CL) has a clockspeed listed of up to 900MHz and it is apparently designed to use speed step quite heavily, the rumor has been going around since those details were made available that the rather odd clockspeed of 729MHz is simply an average speed.
:In fact it looks like the sourced IBM numbers were replaced with the IGN numbers from the unnamed source in this update. http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wii&diff=88148062&oldid=88140082
I guess that until Nintendo tells us what's inside or someone opens up his Wii and takes a look at the partnumbers on the chips, we won't be certain what's inside. IMHO, the info put on the page should reflect the information currently released. And that means it's a ''PowerPC codenamed Broadway produced on 90nm SOI CMOS''. Everything else is pure speculation. ([[User:Mausy5043|Mausy5043]] 20:49, 16 November 2006 (UTC))
:: I think its about time the specs are put up. I also think the IGN specs are correct, as how GameFly, PC Magazine, etc are all using the numbers.<br>Plus IBM released a specs sheet about 1 1/2 months ago which is the same specs IGN released. This probably refers to the Wii's (Comment: The keyword here being: ''probably'' -Mausy5043) CPU.<br>http://www-306.ibm.com/chips/techlib/techlib.nsf/techdocs/2F33B5691BBB8769872571D10065F7D5/$file/ppc750cl_ds_dd20_5oct06.pdf
::: The IBM Spec sheet actually says it is anywhere from a 400MHz(IBMPPC750CLGEQ4024) to a 900MHz(IBMPPC750CLGEQ9024) procceser and there is no 729 at all in the documnet([[User:Catprog|Catprog]] 1:31 + 1000, 20 November 2006)
::::There's no mention anywhere that this chip is in the Wii. Anybody got a picture of the CPU inside the Wii? [[User:Mausy5043|Mausy5043]] 18:16, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Is USA today combined with the IGN article enough to put the hardware details in? ([[User:Catprog|Catprog]] 05:10, 24 November 2006 (UTC))
:I personally think it matters not how many sites on the Internet use the "729MHz" figure, they're still just speculation. They ALL cite the exact same source, which, in turn, is from IGN, and has no source of its own; they did not get the figure from IBM, Nintendo, or anyone reliable.
:In fact, it's pretty clear when you look at it; when you compare the clock rates given, they merely increased the clock rates of the Game Cube's chips by 50%. Aside from that, IGN's figures pretty much claim that they are exactly the same chips, only they aren't; if Gecko were converted to 90nm (it was originall 180nm, for one quarter the space efficiency) it'd be FAR smaller, and consume much less than "30% less" power.
:Similarly, the graphics chip cannot be simply a Flipper with a 50% clock rate increase and 24MB of EDRAM built-in. As it is a form of DRAM, I doubt that it could make the chip package as large as it appears, and it would not have added, for instance, the necessary pixel shader capacity to add the effects seen already in some games, such as how ''Twilight Princess'' uses a good deal of normal-mapping as well as HDR in the game, features that not even the original Xbox could hope to manage.
:So, for the time being, I think it is best to remove any figures aside from those from IBM and Nintendo themselves. At the very least, try to select numbers that make sense; using a 90nm SOI process at IBM and TSMC's fabs, both yields and power consumption/heat loss would be such that one could easily push far higher than IGN's 'specs' and still get it all functional in such a tiny package. The CPU is perhaps up in the air, but the graphics chip was of the same generation as the rest of ATi's X1k-series GPUs. [[User:Nottheking|Nottheking]] 18:12, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
::Uhhh, in case you haven't noticed, Twilight Princess runs on the Gamecube and is 100% graphically identical to the Wii version (with the exception of 16:9)...I sure wouldn't be using it as an example of why it simply can't be a faster clocked Flipper. [[User:Evilgrug|Evilgrug]] 04:44, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::So it's settled that IGN isn't a trustworth source? I'm removing it now. [[User:The Captain Returns|The Captain Returns]] 23:27, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
The article states "24 MB "internal" 1T-SRAM integrated into graphics die" but http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20061127/124495/?SS=imgview_e&FD=-623367583 possibly shows two separate dies... Note can't actually tell what the two dies contain from the photo. This memory is probably on the graphics chip? but not necessarily on the same die. Can anyone check this.. Thanks.[[User:87.102.4.180|87.102.4.180]] 16:50, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
=== Vertex Shaders ===
Hollywood doesn't have Vertex Shaders? The article linked as a source for this reference offers no data to support this, and does not make this claim. It actually stands to reason that the Wii's graphics chip would be smaller than the Gamecubes because the Wii's chip is made on a smaller process (90nm instead of 180nm). As the Wii seems to be perfectly capable of the same kind of effects that the gamecube is I'd mark this claim as highly questionable, especially based on the poor evidence provided and would suggest that it be removed quickly. [[User:64.6.0.233|64.6.0.233]] 06:38, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:the change in question was here. How he got the idea that the Wii's graphics chip lacks features that the gamecube's chip had while still retaining compatibility from that article I do not know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wii&diff=94593118&oldid=94593045
Mummy, I need a Wii.
:Yes agree - I too spotted this - the article linked is interesting (thanks) but says nothing about 'vertex shaders' - please correct>[[User:87.102.4.180|87.102.4.180]] 12:47, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::I can't edit the article yet. Can someone remove the 'No Vertex Shaders' claim? [[User:Zeebo-010|Zeebo-010]] 20:35, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:::removed. [[User:Scepia|Scepia]] 21:15, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
The statement said that the Gamecube lacked it as well, rather than the Gamecube supporting it. As far as I know it is true that the Gamecube lacks pixel and vertex shader support. As for the Wii, I'll research this. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 21:23, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Its back again. If it is meant to indicate a similarity to the Gamecube its phrasing is odd, and can be easily read to mean that the Wii lacks a feature that the gamecube possessed. Also, as mentioned, the linked article provides no evidence for the claim. Couldn't it just say that the Wii is believed to be based on the same R300 style graphics core as the Gamecube based on physical evidence? That would at least be less confusing. [[User:Zeebo-010|Zeebo-010]] 22:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Looks like in the short time it took me to write that last entry it was removed again (helps if I remember to log in) [[User:Zeebo-010|Zeebo-010]] 22:04, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::From what I've been reading, the "Hollywood" is simply an overclocked "Flipper." I'll keep researching. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 22:08, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
This article here from Kotaku claims that the [http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/wii/wii-autopsy-discovers-manufacturing-cost-221736.php "Hollywood" costs about $30]. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 22:17, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:Its not overclocked if its designed to run at that speed. You wouldn't consider an Athlon 64 4800 to be an overclocked Athlon 64 3000 after all. There are a number of hypothesis about what the hollywood is, most would seem to indicate that it is derived from a new laptop integrated graphics chip which may or may not be based on the R300 core. Costs in bulk for chips are typically fairly low especially in the kind of batch sizes that Nintendo will be ordering, so unfortunately it doesn't tell us much. For all we know it could be based on an entirely new ATI core design specifically intended to reduce cost, die size, and power consumption. [[User:Zeebo-010|Zeebo-010]] 00:32, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::I really think the Wii's Hollywood and Broadway are basically speed bumps of the older Flipper and Gekko chips, just made on a manufacturing process that's half the size (180 or .18 nm on GCN originally, then 90nm on Wii). The fact that Broadway is about 50% smaller than Gekko supports this(they probably didn't add any extra L2 cache either). Hollywood is larger mainly because it houses the 24 MB 1T-SRAM module under the same heatspreader. Plus, to maintain such a high degree of backward compatibility with GCN software at the hardware level without integrating any extra older chips (ie PS2 containing the PS1 CPU) means Wii's components are basically the same as Flipper and Gekko. This isn't necessarilly a bad thing, as it helps Nintendo profit and kept their R&D costs lower, since most of their time and money was probably spent refining the Wii remote technology. In this regard even Xbox beats Wii, as it had early Pixel Shader 1.4 support (Just compare Far Cry on Xbox to Vengeance on Wii. What a difference shaders can make if used well!) [[User:Nintenboy01|Nintenboy01]] 17:09, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
::Far Cry: Vengeance sucks because Ubisoft barely put any effort into it. There is no reason a Wii game should look that bad. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 03:24, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Gamecube's Flipper is supposedly the prototype of what would become ATIs R300 core, if this is true and the Wii's Hollywood is a descendent of that design it would likely have at least 2 vertex shader units. [[User:Zeebo-010|Zeebo-010]]
::::Ah, just found an article that shoots the idea that the gamecube had it down at least. http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=1566 However the time of the Gamecube's release, the acquisition of ArtX and the release of the R300 does still seem to back up the fact that they are closely related designs. Its entirely possible that the Wii would be based on a more recent revision of the core which would include the more modern features. [[User:Zeebo-010|Zeebo-010]] 00:03, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
==NES, Super Nintendo, Nintendo 64 and GameCube games==
I've heard that [[Nintendo Entertainment System|NES]], [[Super Nintendo Entertainment System|Super Nintendo]], [[Nintendo 64]], and [[Nintendo GameCube|GameCube]] games work on the Wii system. Is that true? If it is, I think it should be mentioned in the article. [[User:Voortle|Voortle]] 03:31, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
:Not quite, some of them will be part of the Virtual Console (which IS mentioned in the article). The GameCube games part is mentioned though under the Backwards Compatibility section. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 03:41, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
::You can download NES, SNES, N64, Sega Genesis and [[TurboGrafx-16]] games onto the Wii for a price. The price is from $5 to $10. You can play the Gamecube games straight from the Cube disc in the Wii. For more detailed infomation, see the [[Virtual Console (Wii)]] article. [[User:Dposse|dposse]] 17:26, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
:::Do you think its worth mentioning that the wii is the only 7th gen console that is fully backwards compatable with its predessesor? <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] ([[User talk:J.L.Main|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/J.L.Main|contribs]]) 23:27, 8 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
Considering I actually own the console in question, I will settle this one:
Yes, gamecube games are fully compatible with the Wii, and there is a a set of four ports on the top under a flap that allows for plugging in the Gamecube controller (Wii looks a little weird when you have Wavebird controller adpaters sticking out the top!).
NES, SNES, N64 (and a couple others i think) are available for download from the online shop for the virtual console. It's 800 Wii points for a Mega drive game like Sonic, and about 1000 (£7.99 sterling) for N64, others varying.[[User:Zarroc|Zarroc]] 11:12, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
== Brazil's Price ==
I am surprised to see Brazil's price, which is far higher than the rest, and I am wondering if this is the official price from nintendo.--[[User:W Tanoto|w_tanoto]] 10:18, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
:I don't think these are the prices from Nintendo. It seems there was some trouble importing these consoles into Brazil. You can read more about it at one of these two articles below. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 10:26, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
:* [http://www.nintendolife.com/articles/2006/11/07/brazilian_wii_to_cost_over_usd1100 translated to English article]
:* [http://www.gametv.com.br/story.show.chain?story.id=4141 original Portuguese article]
*Unfortunately, it's the official price from the official Nintendo representation in Brazil. Not-so-legal imports can come to as "low" as R$1400.00 (roughly US$600.00). When questioned about this unbeliaveable price, all that Nintendo has to say is that "they analyze each country and adapt the best strategy for the local situation". The taxes for imported consoles are of 80%, but (US$250*1.8) is still very far from the suggested price. [[User:Pmbarros|Pmbarros]] 15:33, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
This is a bit off topic, but does anyone know why the price difference is so large? It costs upwards of $1,000 in Brazil, for crying out loud. Does anyone know why this is? --[[User:Poromenos|Poromenos]] 14:49, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
*Inflation, and import costs. I believe, unless the product is manufactured in the country, the costs are ridiculous. [[User:74.137.230.39|74.137.230.39]] 18:11, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
** Actually I was mainly referring to the price in Greece (249.99 Eur), I can't make any sense of it. As far as I know it's produced in Japan (no?) so why would it be $250 in the US and 250 Eur in Europe? I was wondering if anyone knew definitively why this happens. --[[User:Poromenos|Poromenos]] 22:17, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
***That's how game systems (at least from Nintendo) are priced. If a system costs $200 US, then they charge 200 Euros for it. Don't ask me wh they do it though. That IP is right about Brazil as well, anything not produced in Brazil will have huge importing costs tacked on. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 22:21, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
****I am suggesting that unofficial price should not be put to the table, because it is unreliable. example is PlayStation 3 in Indonesia. Some Shop sells it to equivalent of £700, and some £600. It will confuse the reader.--[[User:W Tanoto|w_tanoto]] 00:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Offtopic too, but in Colombia, though not so high, is the same or higher than an xbox 360 core, so I think is ridiculous to make a cheap console to sell at relatively high prices in poor countries.
[[User:200.21.238.118|200.21.238.118]] 00:45, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
Basically I think it just depends on what has to be paid to get the consoles into the coutry, then accounting the inflation costs of the ocal country as well. (Yes, I am typing this while watcing my £179.99 Sterling Wii download Sonic and Bomberman, sorry.) [[User:Zarroc|Zarroc]] 11:14, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
== Competition against 360 and PS3? ==
For a while now, we've had the line, "it is the successor to the Nintendo GameCube and competes against Microsoft's Xbox 360 and Sony's PlayStation 3."
<br/>Now, here's the thing... When they first announced the concept behind the revolution (eventually renamed wii), they made it very clear that they weren't directly competing with Sony and Microsoft. They were aiming for a different market (which actually touches on what Stratadrake was mentioning). To that end, both Microsoft and Sony endorsed the wii, for the sake of turning people away from their actual competition (ie. Microsoft wanted to steer people away from PS3, and Sony wanted to steer people away from the 360).
<br/>Certainly, the case ''could'' be made that the wii is still competing anyways... but that would really be just a point of view.
<br/>More specifically, if Nintendo's plan was to ''not'' compete against the PS3 and 360, then you'd have to make a pretty strong argument to definitively state that they ''are'' in direct competition anyways. Otherwise, it's POV and unacceptable content.
<br/>Opinions? Suggestions? I'll leave it a day or two before I make the change to the article. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 18:38, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
:IMHO, Nintendo isn't really directly competing with Sony and MS in the sense that their system is significantly cheaper and has a very different and non-traditional input method and decidedly poorer graphics. This makes a Wii a poor candidate for direct cross-platform ports unless they use the classic controller, but even then the graphics may suffer compared to PS3 and X360. Sony and MS have gone the more conventional route and just released consoles with considerably greater horsepower and a few new features here and there. Still, like what Stratadrake said above in the "Visual Fidelity" discussion, Nintendo is nevertheless still competing for most gamer's limited budgets and preferences for one console over another. Still I think most gamers who plan on getting two new consoles would probably choose a Wii and a 360 OR PS3, for greater variety (Since 360 and PS3 have basically the same graphics and share many 3rd party games). [[User:Nintenboy01|Nintenboy01]] 20:09, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
::Keeping in mind that you're making the same mistake (at least from the standpoint of being objective) that Stratadrake made. They aren't just targetting gamers. PS3 and 360? Just gamers. But nintendo's looking to make games that your mother will want to play. That your girlfriend will want to play. Peculiar little nuggets of amusement that don't put people off with crazy button layouts. (For reference, I actually happen to be fond of ridiculously high numbers of buttons on my controllers; I'm just talking about nintendo's approach here) Comparing the graphics of a Wii to a PS3 isn't even entirely appropriate, as the PS3's horsepower is also geared strictly to gamers. (No average non-gamer really cares that much whether or not a basketball player has rendered sweat on them) But all of this is beside the point anyways.
::The point is that Nintendo said they weren't interested in direct competition; that they were aiming for a broader (and thus different) market. The article currently conclusively states that the Wii is directly competing against the 360 and PS3. You can certainly make reasonable arguments to back up such a statement, but the point is that ''you shouldn't''. It's a point of view. We're not supposed to push specific points of view here. Statements should be well-researched and verifiable.
::If Nintendo says they aren't interested in direct competition, and you want to definitively state anything to the contrary, then you need a looong laundry list of citations absolutely and conclusively proving that it is absolutely and completely in direct competition. And if nobody presents such citations within the next day or so, it'll have to be stricken from the article, per wikipedia policy. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 20:21, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
Come to think of it, both Sony and Nintendo also said they weren't targeting the same market when the PSP and DS came out, and indeed, it's usually only hardcore gamers who own BOTH units, while the more technically inclined tended to get just the PSP. The DS, on the other hand, seemed like a simpler system so a wider range of folks picked it up instead. This is kinda like the Wii philosophy right? But I do agree Nintendo really isnt targeting just the gamers or Sony or MS; they're going after EVERYONE while Sony alienates with PS3's confoundingly high price, and Microsoft perpetuates the conventional style of console gaming. [[User:Nintenboy01|Nintenboy01]] 21:09, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
:How about a statement that the wii is a major video game console of the _th generation along with ps3 and 360. That is verifiable I'd say, then again sony said this generation doesn't start til the ps3 is released :). [[User:Mason11987|Chris M.]] 21:18, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
:I'm not sure if this is relevant, but both the [[PlayStation 3]] and [[Xbox 360]] articles mention competition with Nintendo's console. [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] 21:43, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
::Listing it as being part of the same generation is, indeed, verifiable and accurate. I'd greatly prefer it that way. (of course, I already stated that I wouldn't touch the article for at least a day, so I'll hold myself to that; but feel free to make the change yourself if you like). [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 22:07, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Nintendo may not be saying they are competing, but the fact of the matter is that the Wii is competing with the Xbox 360 and PS3. That's not POV, it's a simple fact. Sony says the PSP isn't competing with the DS, but it is. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 22:37, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
:::: No, that is POV. Since there is no source for that. It would be good that you stop pushing forward your opinion with edits. I like much better the other formulation, wich only states facts. If it's that obvious that they are competiting, then just stating the facts is enough. And everybody will understand. They are released on more or less the same date, as video game systems. That indeed strongly suggest that they are competiting. However, there is no source prooving that people won't buy Wii + another system, or that people buying Wii would have buyed another system otherwise. Therefore, no matter how obvious it seems, we cannot state as a fact that they are really competiting. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/195.25.232.221|195.25.232.221]] ([[User talk:195.25.232.221|talk]]) 09:32, 5 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
Well, I ''think'' it's been a day now... I'll be making the change to indicate that it's of the same generation as the PS3 and 360, and let people draw their own conclusions as far as competition is concerned. My primary point was that Nintendo originally said that they ''weren't'' directly competing, and if you're going to contradict Nintendo in a Nintendo hardware article, then you need to back it up. The assertion that, "it's a simple fact" isn't really sufficient without something to back it up. So, um, yeah. I'll just list the verifiable parts. If it really is obvious that it's in competition, then people should have no problems drawing that conclusion for themselves. :) [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 17:52, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
<br/>'''Edit:''' Well, I've done the best I can. I couldn't find a way to mention the PS3 and 360 right in the article, though of course you can see their names by following the 7th gen link. (For that matter, it isn't necessarily necessary to mention ''other'' hardware that isn't directly related to the topic) Anyways, if you can think of a better way to phrase it, without making direct claims of competition, feel free. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 18:11, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
:360 and PS3 should be mentioned to establish context (see [[WP:LEAD]]). Whether the consoles are in competition or not shouldn't be an issue. [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] 18:27, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
::Thanks! I'd say your revision looks a lot better than mine. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 19:01, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
To be honest, I think you guys are taking Nintendo's statements too seriously. Remember that since the days of the N64 Nintendo has sort of lived in its own little world and tends to ignore what its competition is doing, making some decidedly dumb business decisions like many other comapnies do (IE, using limited cartridges for N64, releasing the awkward Virtual Boy, using their own mini-DVDs for GCN rather than higher capacity discs, etc). In terms of content and style they're in a class all by themselves, but they ARE still in the same overall market as Sony and Microsoft, so in that sense they are still competing for the gamer's dollars. [[User:Nintenboy01|Nintenboy01]] 21:52, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
:There ''is overlap'' with the 360 and PS3 markets. However, the main intent is still to market to a different audience overall. Look people, if you're going to say it's directly competing, then '''''cite it'''''. Otherwise, it'll be vandalism. This isn't rocket-science. If you're going to contradict the manufacturer over what ''you'' think ''their'' intent is, then you bloody well better back it up. I'm reverting the article to remove the statement of competition. Take it up here first if you want to dispute. I showed respect and waited a day before making the change. Present a citation here or in the article, or drop it. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 22:21, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
'''Update:''' I think the current phrasing is a reasonable compromise. An unofficial/unspoken rivalry between the systems is okay to include. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 22:52, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
:Honestly, I think it sounds dumb. It ''unofficially'' competes against the other consoles? Some marketer's official policy shouldn't have any bearing on this article. I just tried something else [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wii&diff=92326821&oldid=92325216]; competition is implied by mentioning that all three consoles are in the same generation, but it's not said outright. Of course, someone will not doubt find something wrong with this one. -- [[User:Consumed Crustacean|Consumed Crustacean]] <small>([[User talk:Consumed Crustacean|talk]])</small> 23:02, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
::I think that's great, crustacean. (That was what I was aiming for the first time around, but just couldn't get the wording right) [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 23:08, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Thanks. Doesn't look like anyone (i.e. TJ Spyke) has reverted it yet, so hopefully it'll calm this for now. -- [[User:Consumed Crustacean|Consumed Crustacean]] <small>([[User talk:Consumed Crustacean|talk]])</small> 00:15, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
If someone makes a really great microwave, and it cooks food extremely efficiently and well, yet they state they aren't competing with other brands of microwaves on the market, however many many people buy this microwave because it does the job well, then its competing with other microwaves, right? Even if ''one'' person buys a Wii instead of a PS3 then they are competing. It many people buy Wii's instead of PS3's then they are in direct competition.--[[User:220.237.10.97|220.237.10.97]] 00:12, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
:I agree. Just because Nintendo says they are not competing with the PS3 and Xbox 360 doesn't mean that the Wii isn't competing with them. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 01:22, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
:I second that. Nintendo may want to act all independent or consider themselves in a totally different class from their rivals, but many, many people will undoubtedly choose a Wii over a PS3 or X360 and vice-versa, and in that case that is indeed competition. It's just that Nintendo also happens to be trying to reach out more to average Joes who never really used to give videogaming the time of day. [[User:Nintenboy01|Nintenboy01]] 17:07, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
::That logic is entirely inaccurate. First off, remember that they aren't specifically trying to get people to get a wii ''instead'' of a PS3 or 360. Second, just because a person may still end up choosing one over the other, that doesn't mean that there's a direct competition. I might decide to get a bicycle instead of a car, depending on my needs, but that doesn't mean that Schwinn is directly competing with Ford. Different technology. Different design. Different focus. Different markets. Sure, they're both transportation, but if Schwinn were to say, "We're not interested in competing with Ford", then you ''must'' provide a proper citation showing that they're lying (or wrong) in order to say otherwise. Anyways, it seems a bit odd to continue arguing about it at this point. The current revision (thanks to crustacean) entirely acknowledges the other systems of the same generation, but without making unfounded or unverifiable claims. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 18:37, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Why don't we mention both? Nintendo is targeting a different market (older people) than the other consoles, but as a seventh generation gaming console it competes with Xbox 360 and Playstation 3 at some levels. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 19:58, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
:I'll say it now. I still don't like the current version. I reallyt thought it was better to simply say that it's of the same generation as the 360 and PS3. (Silly me, I prefer articles to be free of POV, and only contain verifiable facts...) But, meh. I'm not going to gripe about this version any more unless it gets edited any further. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 05:04, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
::: Reggie Fils-Aime himself (at the E3 2006 Nintendo Press Conference) stated that the Wii is not Next Generation but New Generation... now we all know Reggie is a very smart man just look at his credentials[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_Fils-Aime] it would be very odd also given the scope of the English language to misguide his audience with false information... If he didn't want people to take what he said literally then he would have used different vocabulary. [http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Reggie_Fils-Aime#On_Nintendo] [[User:69.116.77.160|69.116.77.160]] 23:49, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Per my comment below: that was just PR speak. "New generation" sounds better than "next generation". [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 23:57, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
i found this in the reggie-fils anne page:
"One of our competitors is a manufacturer in Japan who wants to capture every one of your entertainment dollars transporting all your content between all of your electronic devices on their memory sticks. We are not that company. And there is another company out there who doesn't care what you do, as long as you do it on their operating system. We are not that company either." - Regarding Nintendo's competitors (Sony and Microsoft, respectively).
this is a quote from the man himself. im still undecided either way though
[[User:Pandapatrol|Pandapatrol]] 16:29, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
==False shortage?==
Nintendo has created a false shortage in the United States with the Wii. Unlike the PS3, which involves a new technology, there are no parts or chips in the Wii that are in short supply; thus there is no reason to make it unavailable to people during the holiday season. Based on sales of Game Cube and DS, Nintendo had to have had an idea of what to produce and put into the market place, and would surely want the fourth quarter sales. It will be unfortunate if children bear the brunt of this cold marketing ploy. [[User:Shore828|Shore828]] - can't find a tilde on my keyboard.
:Do you have a source for this information? [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] 22:32, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
::Let's not forget how Microsoft created a false shortage of 360's last year when they decided to ''not'' have a single U.S. factory producing the units, and shipping them by -- well, ''ship''. Lol. Speculation and POV, non worthy of inclusion. --''[[User:Stratadrake|Stratadrake]] 23:01, 4 December 2006 (UTC)''
:What do you mean by "false shortage"? The fact that you can't find a Wii in the store? If so, like [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] said, do you have a source for this? Second, and most importantly, is this noteworthy, or just a PS3 fanboy thing?--<font color="red">[[User:Farquaadhnchmn|Farquaadhnchmn]]</font><font color="green"><sub>([[User talk:Farquaadhnchmn|Dungeon]])</sub></font> 23:31, 4 December 2006 (UTC)
::It's a fanboy thing. The assumption that Nintendo, or any company, has essentially ''unlimited'' manufacturing capability has got to be. No new technology, wakkawakkawakka, etc. 00:53, 5 December 2006 (UTC)-- [[User:Consumed Crustacean|Consumed Crustacean]] <small>([[User talk:Consumed Crustacean|talk]])</small>
:And let's all remember that a surplus of demand is not the same thing as a lack of supply. --''[[User:Stratadrake|Stratadrake]] 01:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC)''
::They've sold out pretty quickly. This speaks more of the Wii's popularity than anything else, since it's sold over a million worldwide in under a month. That's a lot, even if Nintendo were manufacturing them quickly, that's still a lot. [[User:JONJONAUG|JONJONAUG]] 12:27, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
Wal-mart might have something do do with the "shortage". They only get 3 wiis per store. (at least where I live)[[User:Cfive|Cfive]] 23:54, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
:In my area [[Wal-Mart]]s (at least the two I asked) were stocked with 20 Wii units on launch. The [[Hastings Entertainment|Hastings]] in my town was given (hearsay). Anyway, Wal-Mart can't fix the shortage. I'm sure Wal-Mart would love to sell more Wiis if they had them. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 02:15, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
::Best Buy has an agreement with Nintendo to be the primary retailer for Wii. Just like they were for the XBOX 360. This may have affected distribution to other stores. As an employee there I can agree that the demand for the systems is more than anyone ( including Nintendo) ever expected.[[User:Bf shade|Bf shade]] 07:07, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::: Reggie Fils-Aime himself (at the E3 2006 Nintendo Press Conference) stated that the Wii is not Next Generation but New Generation... now we all know Reggie is a very smart man just look at his credentials[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reggie_Fils-Aime] it would be very odd also given the scope of the English language to misguide his audience with false information... If he didn't want people to take what he said literally then he would have used different vocabulary. [http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Reggie_Fils-Aime#On_Nintendo] [[User:69.116.77.160|69.116.77.160]] 23:49, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::1)That has nothing to do with this section. 2)That was just PR talk (since he was still in the PR department at the time). [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 23:52, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Recently found out that the Wii was the fastest selling platform in Europe, o heres a Brits POV on things. Personally, If you don;t have the sense to make sure that you have apreorder, or are going to go somewhere that will possibly be importing three thousand (thats the current chance of picking one up here BTW, 3,000:1, until more come in next Wii-k, get it?) then you really are't gonna get one by xmas. the problem is that if the stores are flooded, then the whole point of capitalism drops off the table, cos there are so many. It's bit of a delicate balance, and definitely NOT a false shortage [[User:Zarroc|Zarroc]] 11:19, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
== Wii Remote/Wiimote naming convention ==
Hope you don't mind, but I thought I'd resume the discussion down here, because it was getting a bit high up in an already full page. (Incidentally, if anyone knows how to archie this talk page, it'd be much appreciated)
<br/>I think it's important to distinguish between a "common name", and a "nickname".
<br/>Wiimote is a nickname. (To be fair about my own personal bias, "wiimote" is what I personally choose to call it)
<br/>Wii Remote is the official name. Many people (myself included) like to refer to it as a 'wiimote', but very few think that 'wiimote' is the "real" name of the device. That's why it isn't used as the "common name". "Wiimote" is just a fun thing to call it. Nobody would ever seriously suggest referring to GW Bush as "Miserable Failure", even though I'm getting 351,000 hits for miserable failure, specifically within the context of bush. You'll notice that the PS3 article is listed as "PlayStation 3", even though "ps3" gets nearly three times as many hits as "playstation 3". That's because, while although more people tend to use the nickname of PS3, people still mostly recognize "playstation 3" as being the 'real' name of it. The only difference here being that PS3 is still very much acknowledged (and probably trademarked) by Sony, whileas Nintendo seems to be avoiding "wiimote" in general.
<br/>
<br/>Or, if that's too long to read, a nickname isn't the same as a "common name". And I think most people know that it's "really" known as the "wii remote". That said, I would still absolutely oppose any suggestion in articles that "wiimote" is in any way "incorrect". It can be affectionately referred to as the "wiimote", colloqu... uh, I can't spell it, but you know what I mean... It can even be "unofficially referred to as the 'wiimote'", but not "incorrectly". :) [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 18:43, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
:Technically, the official name of the PS3 is the PLAYSTATION 3, in all caps. :P --[[User:Guess Who|Guess Who]] 22:18, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
::Here's my two cents. When talking with people, I will call it the "wiimote" because that is a viable nickname. The real name, the one given to it by Nintendo is "wii remote". I think it's noteworthy enough to be mentioned on the [[Wii Remote]] page (and it is), but it is unnecessary for the actual console page. Besides, if you type in Wiimote into the search bar, it will take you to the page that will inform you about it.--<font color="red">[[User:Farquaadhnchmn|Farquaadhnchmn]]</font><font color="green"><sub>([[User talk:Farquaadhnchmn|Dungeon]])</sub></font> 22:45, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
"PS3" is an [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (acronyms)|acronyms]] and guidelines recommend against using acronyms as article titles. "Miserable Failure" as a title for the [[George W. Bush]] article is against the guidelines of [[Wikipedia:Neutral point of view|neutral point of view]]. [http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&num=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=George+W+Bush&as_oq=&as_eq=wikipedia&lr=lang_en&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images "George W. Bush"] is used 17.6 times more on the internet than [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&client=safari&rls=en&as_qdr=all&q=+%22Miserable+Failure%22+-wikipedia&btnG=Search&lr=lang_en "Miserable Failure"]. [http://www.google.com/search?as_q=&hl=en&client=safari&rls=en&num=10&btnG=Google+Search&as_epq=Wiimote&as_oq=&as_eq=wikipedia&lr=lang_en&as_ft=i&as_filetype=&as_qdr=all&as_nlo=&as_nhi=&as_occt=any&as_dt=i&as_sitesearch=&as_rights=&safe=images "Wiimote"] is used time more on the internet than [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=lang_en&client=safari&rls=en&as_qdr=all&q=+%22Wii+Remote%22+-wikipedia&btnG=Search&lr=lang_en "Wii Remote"]. Additionally, it's unlikely for someone to believe that an acronym, such as "PS3," or a possibly [[Slander and libel|libelous]] name, such as "Miserable Failure," would be the official or legal name for a subject. "Wiimote," on the otherhand, sounds like it could be the official name for the subject. Portmanteaus are very commonly used in product names, and I believe Japan is especially fond of them. [http://www.aquafresh.com/ Aquafresh], [http://www.philips.com/heartstart HeartStart], [[PlayStation]], [[Nintendo Entertainment System|Famicom]], [http://catalog.belkin.com/IWCatProductPage.process?Product_Id=21021 VideoBus], [[OpenOffice.org|OpenOffice]], [[Adidas]], [[Winterfresh]], and [[Nickelodeon_Toys#Timeblaster_Alarm_Clock|Timeblaster]] are all examples of this. Why do you not want this mentioned? Are there any policies against it? Mentioning "Wiimote" will clear up some people's misconceptions about the name of the controller. As [[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] mentioned, some people think the Wii Remote and Wiimote are two different controllers. By saying, "The Wii Remote, unofficially known as the 'Wiimote,'" we would be clearly defining that they are the same as well as alluding that "Wii Remote" is the official name. It would be nice to mention this here at least while the Wii is new and until more people are aware of the official name. "Wiimote" isn't going to be the most common term forever. When it becomes much less common than "Wii Remote," it won't be necessary to mention it here, as people will accept that "Wii Remote" is the real name when they readd it here. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 03:44, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
::"Wiimote" is mentioned on the Wii Remote page, where it belongs. Why should it be mentioned on the page about the Wii system? Besides, if someone types in "Wiimote" or "Wii-mote" they will be redirected to the correct page. BTW, PlayStation isn't a portmanteau of anything. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 03:51, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
:::It should be mentioned here to inform the readers of this page. The page encompasses more than just the Wii console itself. It's okay to talk about the Wii's controller here. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 04:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Well, I imagine that people participating in the discussion have probably read the article as well. :)
::::Anyways, I have no problem calling it a 'wiimote' in normal conversation. That's what I do, myself. (It's actually the only reason I accepted a stupid name like, "wii". It's fun to call the thing a 'wiimote') As such, it's entirely appropriate to acknowledge 'wiimote' in the main article for the controller. However, I'm not seeing a reason for why it's necessary in the article on the wii. The small amount of information they have in the wii article is intentionally as short as possible. Mentioning nicknames is contrary to that concept. It's just a small technical blurb, and a link to the main article for it. That's appropriate. It isn't that 'wiimote' is offensive (at least, not to me), it's just that it's unnecessary padding.
::::Frankly, I don't see any reason to include the nickname other than the fact that you want it. As for people believing that the "wii remote" and "wiimote" are two separate devices... well... um... I really don't think that wikipedia should have its articles dumbed down to accomodate people who make mistakes like that. (Seriously, who makes that kind of mistake? The same people who don't know that Clark Kent and Superman are the same dude?) [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 04:19, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Jecowa does have a point, Wiki articles should generally be ''optimized for '''readers''' over editors''. And as we know, Nintendo's own statements have had no effect on common usage; "Nintendo Wii" has stuck for clarity, and "Wiimote" sticks as a catchy nickname for the Remote. --''[[User:Stratadrake|Stratadrake]] 04:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)''
:::::I don't think we need to worry about this phrase making the Wii Remote section too large. As it is, it is so small that its picture is protruding into the Technical specifications section. A better way to reduce the size of the article would be to move the list of titles to its own article and optimize the references in the article. I think I'll work on that right now. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 04:34, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::Indeed, a mere four words (i.e. "sometimes called the Wii-mote") is hardly going to affect the overall size of the article or its section. WP:LAME indeed.... --''[[User:Stratadrake|Stratadrake]] 04:50, 6 December 2006 (UTC)''
::Article Size has never been the reason it shouldn't be included. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 04:55, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Please tell me what official wikipedia guideline or policy "WP:LAME" is, because, obviously, if that were an insult, then that wouldn't go over well as a response to editors acting in good faith.
<br/>Anyways, saying that it should be "optimized for readers over editors" still doesn't explain any reason to include it. Saying that it's short isn't any reason to include it. Nicknames of peripherals don't seem necessary or appropriate in an article on the main system. That's my argument. What's your direct reasoning for including it? Without insults, please? [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 04:57, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
I could ask what solid arguments there are for ''not'' including it? Anyway, remember [[WP:LAME]] is not a policy itself but just a documentation on the silliest things that Wiki editors have argued over. And really, this whole edit/revert war over whether or not to mention the Remote's common nickname (a mere four words) fits the common theme exemplified by WP:LAME, i.e. protracted edit and/or revert conflicts over something extremely minor. --''[[User:Stratadrake|Stratadrake]] 13:30, 6 December 2006 (UTC)''
:Well, first off, read the arguments already given. It's unnecessary for an article about the wii. It's mildly inappropriate for a quick technical description of the device. Not every nickname needs to be echoed every time an official name is used. And, most importantly, simply because there's disagreement as to whether or not it should be included, and ''zero'' justification for including it.
:That is, if people give reasons not to, then you have to give a reason ''to''. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 18:32, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to state, again, why "As [[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] mentioned, some people think the Wii Remote and Wiimote are two different controllers." is not a reason to include it. If you type Wiimote into the search bar, presumably because you want to know about it versus the Wii remote, you will be redirected to [[Wii remote]], where it clearly states: "The Wii Remote, also nicknamed 'Wiimote.'" I also think having a mention of Wiimote on the Wii page is getting [[WP:CRUFT|crufty]]. Again, as mentioned above, Nintendo's official term for the controller is [http://www.nintendo.com/wiilarge?gallery=accessory¤tNo=0 Wii remote], not Wiimote.
Now, what reasons to include it are not covered by that paragraph?--<font color="red">[[User:Farquaadhnchmn|Farquaadhnchmn]]</font><font color="green"><sub>([[User talk:Farquaadhnchmn|Dungeon]])</sub></font> 20:18, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
:Here are two reasons that this should be mentioned. The term "Wiimote" is a very common term for the Wii Remote. On the internet it is used more often than the official name on English pages. Although this section is just a summary of the main article, several people feel that fact is interesting enough to mention in it.
:The [[Wikipedia:Naming conventions (common names)|common naming convention]], as [[User:Ajmayhew|Ajmayhew]] said, "[c]learly states that the common name is to be used. … [W]hilst it talks about the page titles as a special case, it does not make a distinction against titles of things used in a page. It's been demonstrated that its common name is Wiimote." If we went by the common names guideline, "Wiimote" would be mentioned in every instance. Can we at least mention it in the "Wii Remote" section once? [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 21:04, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
::If we were to go by naming conventions, as you suggest, then the one that was selected for the main article's title already should be the one used (and the one we already use). Also, there is no need the be redundant when the user can easily click on the link to Wii remote and see that it is also the Wii-mote, or they can type in Wii-mote into the search bar and get there as well on this page. There is no '''need''' for it to be in the console's article.
::No one is disputing that Wii-mote is used. Most of us say we use it in everyday speech and Nick found a reference below that the NOA President uses it. That is not the issue. The issue is should we use it inside the article for the console. Why? Yes, several people think so, but several other people disagree, so please come up with another argument.--<font color="red">[[User:Farquaadhnchmn|Farquaadhnchmn]]</font><font color="green"><sub>([[User talk:Farquaadhnchmn|Dungeon]])</sub></font> 01:35, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
For what it's worth, NOA President Reggie Fils-Aime calls it the wiimote in [http://news.com.com/1606-2_3-6133432.html this video interview]It's at about 2:58 left. [[User:NickCharbuski|NickCharbuski]] 22:08, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
Oops! I didn't notice that the discussion continued in another section. Please look at the bottom of the above section if you're interested in My input on the topic. [[User:Agaib|Agaib]] 05:22, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
Everybody: Please keep in mind that already Wii-centric sources are probably just going to call it 'the Remote' or something similar. Just because there's more usage of "wiimote" than "wii remote" Entirely, doesn't mean that people referring to it as a 'remote' in general should be discounted (these people can just as easily type "wiimote", remember). It's what it is, it's a Remote. For the Wii. Wii Remote. There are 13,700,000 hits for wii AND remote, so I dunno if that means anything. [[User:Webrunner|Webrunner]] 17:14, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
== External link request - ntsc-uk hardware overview ==
Please can I add an external link?
http://www.ntsc-uk.com/feature.php?featuretype=hdw&fea=NintendoWiiHardwareReview <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Charlesr|Charlesr]] ([[User talk:Charlesr|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Charlesr|contribs]]) 10:05, 6 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
::We don't have any links to a review of the system itself yet. Presently in the unofficial category we have three game review sites and a forum site linked. I'd rather have [http://www.ntsc-uk.com/feature.php?featuretype=hdw&fea=NintendoWiiHardwareReview this page] than the IGN and GameSpot pages linked. The IGN page is a big eyesore and the GameSpot page isn't far behind it. IGN and GameSpot seem really similar, do we need both of them, or either of them? [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 10:24, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
:: Given the lack of objection, I think that's a yes. Be bold. [[User:217.206.142.66|217.206.142.66]] 15:50, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
Oooops. I tried adding the link myself, but it got removed. I just read the external links thing again and noticed I'm not allowed to add it myself, especially since I'm the Editor of said site, so apologies! I'll let someone else add it if they want. If you need any more persuasion, ntsc-uk is a non-profit site, with writers that write for free (we get a few games a month from our affiliates in return for a single unobtrusive advert on each page, but no cash profit is generated, so we aren't bothered about generating traffic). Our similar overview of the Panasonic Q has been linked on the wiki's Q page by someone. --[[User:Charlesr|Charlesr]] 16:08, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
== Current Event tag==
I got rid of the Current Event tag. It's been a couple weeks since the launch, so I think it's appropriate. The [[PlayStation 3|PS3]] article already had it removed.--<font color="red">[[User:Farquaadhnchmn|Farquaadhnchmn]]</font><font color="green"><sub>([[User talk:Farquaadhnchmn|Dungeon]])</sub></font> 20:31, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
:The Wii is launching tomorrow in Australia, and the day after in Europe. I think that's current. The PS3 had it removed because it won't launch in those markets until at least March. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 22:16, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
:: I suppose we should add it tomorrow, then. [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] 22:21, 6 December 2006 (UTC)
:::That was my plan... sorry that I didn't mention that.--<font color="red">[[User:Farquaadhnchmn|Farquaadhnchmn]]</font><font color="green"><sub>([[User talk:Farquaadhnchmn|Dungeon]])</sub></font> 01:12, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
::::It has already been released in Australia since it's about 3PM there. So I will add it back in now. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 01:17, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::I really need to remember that there are time zones... thanks TJ...--<font color="red">[[User:Farquaadhnchmn|Farquaadhnchmn]]</font><font color="green"><sub>([[User talk:Farquaadhnchmn|Dungeon]])</sub></font> 01:37, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
==Should Iwata's Comment Be Mentioned?==
Hehe! Ok, I wont antagonize anyone anymore about whether or not the Wii is in direct competition with its fellow 7th gen consoles (It actually seems to be in competition with the DS more) but should Iwata's friendly jab at Sony be mentioned in our article? I quote, "We aren't planning on competing with the PS3, but we'd like it to be said that in the end, Nintendo sold more." Check it out on IGN if you haven't seen it yet. [[User:Nintenboy01|Nintenboy01]] 21:05, 7 December 2006 (UTC)
:Not really, because it really won't matter even when it comes true.--<font color="red">[[User:Farquaadhnchmn|Farquaadhnchmn]]</font><font color="green"><sub>([[User talk:Farquaadhnchmn|Dungeon]])</sub></font> 01:10, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
==Whats happened to the table!?!==
The launch games table used to be clear and really easy to read but this new one is so confusing it defeats the purpose of having one.
[[User:Jimmy93211|Jimmy93211]] 00:34, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
:How is it confusing? The regions are all clearly listed in abbreviated form. NA for North America, SA for South America, AST for Australia, EUR for Europe, JPN for Japan... I'm confused as to how you are confused. If you could be more specific, then maybe someone can fix it.--<font color="red">[[User:Farquaadhnchmn|Farquaadhnchmn]]</font><font color="green"><sub>([[User talk:Farquaadhnchmn|Dungeon]])</sub></font> 01:17, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
== False sales data ==
Apparently Nintendo exaggerated the amount of units it had sold. According to NPD, Nintendo sold 473,000 Wii units in North America during the month of November, [http://www.gamespot.com/news/6162870.html?tag=latestnews;title;0] this contradicts Nintendo's claim on November 27 that it had sold 600,000 units in North America. [http://wii.ign.com/articles/747/747728p1.html] [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 01:19, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
:I thought NPD only tracked US sales. Even so, Nintendo's figure encompasses more than just North America. [[User:Dancter|Dancter]] 01:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
::NPD tracks North America sales, that's Canada and United States. Nintendo's figures were for North America as they had not yet launched in Japan (Japan launch was on December 2). [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 01:29, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
:::I stand corrected on the NPD thing, but I thought the American launch included Latin American countries. Am I misunderstanding Nintendo's terminology? [[User:Dancter|Dancter]] 01:50, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Also, it seems that NPD often reports Canadian and US sales separately. Why are we to assume they mean North America this time, when every source I've seen specifically mentions that the figure is for the United States? [[User:Dancter|Dancter]] 02:46, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
::::This is the first time I ever heard of NPD reporting Canada and US sales data seperately, do you have any evidence of this? I think when Gamedaily and Gamespot said US in their report of NPD's report, they meant to say North America. Furthermore, shipments to Canada are tiny compared to shipments to the United States, for example for the North American launch of the Xbox 360, only a little over 30,000 were shipped to Canada. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 02:52, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Those numbers you just mentioned were from NPD,[http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20051214/xbox_sales_051214/20051214?hub=Entertainment] in which case the GameSpot and IGN articles quoted only the US statistics,[http://www.gamespot.com/news/6141237.html][http://cube.ign.com/articles/675/675659p1.html] and did not factor in the Canadian sales. In both cases, the wording was loose, implying but not stating that the numbers were for North America overall. I suspect that this would be the more likely error if there were one in the case of the November Wii numbers, but considering the wording, I think that the sources can be trusted to mean the United States. Regardless, we don't have the sales information for the other countries, so I think it's a bit presumptuous to assume that Nintendo misrepresented its sales for the Americas. [[User:Dancter|Dancter]] 03:47, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::Apparently you are right about NPD releasing US and Canada sales figures seperately. However, I highly doubt that Canada would make up for the unaccounted 124,000 consoles. Perhaps [[User:Jecowa]] is right that Nintendo meant that they shipped 600,000 to retailers. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 05:07, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
:I think when Nintendo said they sold 600,000 in America, they meant they sold that many to retailers. The most Nintendo would know is how many they sold to the retailers and which retailers are asking for more units, right? [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 01:41, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::::if xbox sold 10% of thier initial sails to canada than it makes sence that nintendo would also. even if it were only 60K, with the addition of latin america it would come pretty close to 100k that is seemingly missing. i'm going to say the nintendo probably just rounded up.[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 02:36, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
::::The NPD data released covers the US only. Nintendo said they sold 600K in the AMERICAS, meaning it includes Columbia and Peru (where they launched in South America) and Mexico. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 00:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
== Wii Strap Breakages? ==
: some should really add a section already about wii remotes being thrown into TVs, vcrs, wii's, people, etc. anyone need reference? check http://www.wiihaveaproblem.com . [[User:Masterhand10|masterhand10]]
::This has been addressed in the [[Wii_Remote|wii remote]] article. (And I thought it was addressed in this talk page somewhere, too) Since it's related more to the wiimote than to the wii as a console, that's where the strap breakages have been mentioned. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 17:41, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
How about a section about the wrist strap breaking when the remote (may be) used excessively. Apparently screens are breaking from flying remotes. A critisism if anything. [[User:Garethfoot|Gaz]] 01:27, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
:It made Reuters, should be notable. [http://www.nzherald.co.nz/section/story.cfm?c_id=5&ObjectID=10414298] [[User:WP|WP]] 04:15, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
::While although it's a notable concept in general, I really think that it's more related to the wii remote itself, rather than the wii, as a system. (To that end, it's been included in the [[Wii_Remote|wiimote]] article for a while now. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 05:05, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
Should be noted that on wiihaveaproblem.com, there are only about 15 reports of this happening. its overhyped.
:::It is just overhype, some people are being careless with their controllers, that's it. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 00:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Sites are reporting that replacements now have thicker straps, but this should probably stay on the Wiimote page. - [[User:Hahnchen|hahnch]][[Evil|<span title="WP:Esperanza"><font color="green">e</font></span>]][[User:Hahnchen|n]] 05:18, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
:Nintendo has started making thicker straps on all new remotes to address the problem. These are also available on any remotes Nintendo replaces from this point on. [[User:Bradibus|Bradibus]] 21:59, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
I have a third party strap whch is actually thinner than the standard,and I haven;t had any problem with it. You only have a problem if you physically <i><b>let go</b></i> of the Wiimote/Wii-mote/Wii remote (to appease those who think it matters what it is called), and send it through the window while playing baseball or tennis. Seriously, the games are designed so you DON'T have to use that much power, I've sent a 914 ft bat on Super Monkey Ball: Banana Blitz without sending the controller through my window. if you're using it that hard, you should really take a good look at how you are playing, and read the manual a little more. [[User:Zarroc|Zarroc]] 11:24, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Well evidently Nintendo thought there were enough accidents to recall all the straps http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,236687,00.html--[[User:Dm-schmieder|Dm-schmieder]] 16:51, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
Sorry link got messed up there http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,236687,00.html [[User:Dm-schmieder|Dm-schmieder]] 16:52, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
I think the recall and the reason for it should be mentioned in the article. I do not see it as of this writing. [[User:Monkeybreath|Monkeybreath]] 09:47, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:It's not technically a recall (it's a voluntary product replacement; some difference, mainly that it doesn't pose an immediate safety risk and doesn't ''need'' replacing), and it is already mentioned. "In response to incidences of strap failures, Nintendo is now offering a stronger replacement of all Wii Remote straps." See the source: [http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml07/07061.html]. -- [[User:Consumed Crustacean|Consumed Crustacean]] <small>([[User talk:Consumed Crustacean|talk]])</small> 09:53, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::Yeah they did beef up the strap diameter. It went from .024in. to .04in!!!!![[User:Sabresfan82|Colin Reding]] 22:30, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Whilst they did increase the size of the strap it's not a recall. They're not instructing anyone who's got a strap to return it as defective. If it was a recall they'd have told everyone with a strap to return it otherwise they'd be open to being sued. By definition this cannot be a recall as it's up to the consumer if they want to get another one. Nintendo are telling people the product isn't defective, because of this htis cannot be a recall, it's as they say, a replacement.[[User:BigHairRef|BigHairRef]] | [[User talk:BigHairRef|Talk]] 01:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
While it has an article, there should be a short blurb on this one and a "See Wii remote" link put in, since it's very related and most people are going to look on this article for this information first.
:Assuming you're referring to wiimotes being flung to and fro, wouldn't that be slightly more relevant in the [[Wii_Remote|wiimote]] article? [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 07:22, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::A summary of the strap breakage problem is currently included in the "Wii Remote" section. We don't need to sensationalize it by documenting extreme cases. [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] 14:55, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
On a related note, the section should document what happened, rather than what ''didn't'' happen. [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] 17:27, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
Perhaps someone could add that the Wiimote strap has been recalled, I don't think I can because of it's protected status--[[User:Cadet hastings|Cadet hastings]] 15:27, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
:The Wiimote has NOT been recalled. According to AP, it is a VOLUNTARY RECALL and will cost Nintendo about $1,000,000, or 10 million yen. Yay Nintendo!!!!Only YOU have the guts to do this!
[[User:Quatreryukami|Quatreryukami]] 16:38, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
:The strap replacement info is already in the article. [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] 17:15, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
== CTRL+F > "will" > Enter, enter, etc. ==
Find every occurrence of the word "will" and replace it with "is" or "are" or whatever makes sense. Wii's been out, we're in the present tense...or, we will be. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/69.117.19.131|69.117.19.131]] ([[User talk:69.117.19.131|talk]]) 05:16, 8 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
:Hurray for find and replace! [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 05:20, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
:Just for clarification: you don't want to replace every instance of the word will, Only those referring to the Wii's launch. [[User:Bradibus|Bradibus]] 21:54, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
== History? ==
If this indeed pans out as a fork in the history of gaming, I think some serious mention of the conceptualizing of the Wii should be made. I seem to remember Myiamoto speaking in an interview around 1999 or so about his ideal system being one simpe enough to be played with one button. That stuck out to me at the time as bizarre, but it seems the vision was clear even then. I don;t have the time or resources to check this out but it might be a fascinating addition to the article. - [[User:Plasticbadge|Plasticbadge]] 18:47, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
:I happen to be working on something quite similar to that. It's a work in progress, and I won't add it until it's just right. [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] 21:57, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
== Redundancy? ==
Do we need to have the same thing mentioned twice in the same paragraph? I thought that mentioning it once was enough so I deleted the second one. This, Nintendo has released an Ethernet Kit for the Wii console, which allows users to connect the console to a standard internet router without wireless support., is what I deleted. If this needs to be changed the whole paragraph needs to be reworded. Thanks,--Darkest Hour <sup><font color="orange">[[user:Darkest Hour|$]]</font></sup><sub><font color="slate">[[user_talk:Darkest Hour|$]]</font></sub><sup><font color="purple">[[Special:Contributions/Darkest_Hour|$]]</font></sup><sub><font color="brown">[[Wii|$]]</font></sub> 19:06, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
:Good job. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 03:19, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
==We should add nintendo got sued==
[http://wii.ign.com/articles/750/750001p1.html IGN]--[[User:NFAN3|User:NFAN3|NFAN3]] 21:24, 8 December 2006 (UTC)
:Interesting development, a U.S. company suing the American division of a Japan-based company for something developed on the Japan side of things. But better cite it to be sure. --''[[User:Stratadrake|Stratadrake]] 01:06, 9 December 2006 (UTC)''
:[[Kotaku]], which may or may not be a reliable source, has a copy of the complaint [http://cache.kotaku.com/assets/resources/2006/12/InterlinkvNintendo.pdf]. -- [[User:Consumed Crustacean|Consumed Crustacean]] <small>([[User talk:Consumed Crustacean|talk]])</small> 01:11, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
::Kotaku is quite notable, but IGN is definitely more notable and should be used as the source. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 01:31, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
:::I linked the IGN article and Kotaku transcript, though both may not be necessary (and this was shortly before my PC froze... grr.) --''[[User:Stratadrake|Stratadrake]] 02:44, 9 December 2006 (UTC)''
:Very interesting. The product they claimed to have copied is nothing more than a laser pointer that also doubles as a clicker for slideshow presentations. [[User:Bradibus|Bradibus]] 21:55, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm hearing the case was dropped but the sources are... well unclear. Anyone know anything?
== New Thicker Wii Strap in American remotes ==
I just recently got a new remote and strap from Nintendo after replacing my old broken one, and I noticed the new strap is thicker than the ones that were available during launch. I've taken a comparison picture:
http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v143/Adeon/wiistrap.jpg [[User:Bradibus|Bradibus]] 21:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
[http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061207/ap_on_hi_te/japan_nintendo_wii This] may be the reason. -[[User:SaturnYoshi|<font color="midnightblue" face="comic sans ms">'''Saturn'''</font>]][[User:SaturnYoshi/Esperanza|<font color="green" face="comic sans ms">'''Yoshi'''</font>]] <sup>[[User talk:SaturnYoshi|<font color="maroon" face="comic sans ms">THE VOICES</font>]]</sup> 06:48, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
== The urine thing (again) ==
Sorry, I really don't want to drag this up for the fifteenth time, and I guess the wording will do as it is, but surely I can't be the only person who finds the so-called consensus on [[Talk:Wii/archive14#WII_.3D_Piss|archive #14]] completely unsatisfactory? There was a discussion that basically involved one person against several, and the vote was closed within a day, before even that one person had the opportunity to vote, thereby giving the impression of a 100% consensus. Surely that's no basis to say that the matter has been resolved, because it clearly hasn't?--[[User:Victim Of Fate|Victim Of Fate]] 15:16, 9 December 2006 (UTC)
:It had already been discussed before that too. There won't be any urine mention in the article, end of story. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 00:16, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Even if he did vote, the outcome would have been 10-1 against it. The voting did only last 16 hours though. Do you think we should mention it in the article, Victim Of Fate? Maybe something like this - "Because 'Wii' is also a [[homophone]] of a [[euphemism]] for urine, many junior high boys and other immature people giggled upon hearing its name." Is there a way to say that without stereotyping junior high boys? [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 00:56, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
::No, I think it should say something like "...pointing out phonetic similarities to the French word 'oui' and a common playground term for urine in English." I really don't see what's immature or unverifiable there, and I don't see that it's unimportant either.--[[User:Victim Of Fate|Victim Of Fate]] 14:33, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
:I don't imagine you need an extra opinion, but bothering to mention urine would seem rather immature and unnecessary. (not to mention, not notable) [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 01:50, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
:Even if we mention it, heaven forbid anyone wikilink it (ordinary word with [[WP:CONTEXT|no relevance]] to the article's context). He is correct, though, that the last strawpoll didn't exactly live very long. If we are to do another, we should give it its official "day in court" and wait the official five days before drawing a consensus. --''[[User:Stratadrake|Stratadrake]] 02:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)''
(And as a person who likes to edit first and ask questions later....)
This straw poll is useless. First, someone explain how not mentioning any reference to urine is supposed to square with [[WP:NOT|Wikipedia is not censored]]. Secondly, what use is a vote? This is about consensus, and it ends with compromise. There is no compromise here, there is no end of story, there's nothing that will keep all parties satisfied, which is why it's being brought up again. "A negative word in English" is silly and vague. It's the language of school marms. It ''absolutely begs'' to be edited and be put out of its misery. I changed that wording and inserted a reference to pee, and although I didn't see the "do not add urine note" because it was several paragraphs above where the actual edit was, I apologize for ignoring that the issue was in contention. However, the idea that we influence the language in this article from the usual straight-forward style of prose that is a staple of WP (afterall, this web site featured [[History of erotic depictions]] on its front page, complete with a thumbnail of a oil lamp depicting doggystyle sex) because snickering junior high kids might laugh at the word "wee" is, at the least, not consistent with WP's style. ''[[User:Hateless|hateless]]'' 04:15, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
:One quick postscript: If the issue is that "wee" is not referenced, then "a negative word" should be excised completely. ''[[User:Hateless|hateless]]'' 04:17, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
::What's the point in putting "a negative word"? It's absolutely ridiculous, either insert a piss reference or remove the stupid phrasing altogether. "A negative word" - It sounds like censorship. - [[User:Hahnchen|hahnch]][[Evil|<span title="WP:Esperanza"><font color="green">e</font></span>]][[User:Hahnchen|n]] 05:00, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
I agree that "a negative word" sounds silly, especially considering that Wikipedia is not censored. What's so bad about the word "pee"? [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 06:14, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Tht was put in as a compromise to te immature people who had an obsession with urine. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 23:38, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
::::I take exception to the phrase "obsession with urine". Thinking that the article should contain a single line informing that a large number of people criticised the name because of its similarity to a common euphemism for urine is not being "obsessed with urine".--[[User:Victim Of Fate|Victim Of Fate]] 07:41, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
===A wee survey===
Can we have one last strawpoll to end them all? Give it the full five days and list your statements -- try to back them up with NPOV, logical reasons (because "stupid" or "lame" are not logical arguments). --''[[User:Stratadrake|Stratadrake]] 02:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)''
'''Question: "Wii" is the name that launched a thousand jokes, many comparing it to urine. Do we mention the urine reference?'''
*'''No''' - mentioning (and citing) the general criticism is enough; most people will draw the urine reference on their own, we don't need to point it out for them (and heaven forbid trying to wikilink it, [[Wikipedia:Only make links that are relevant to the context|plain ordinary words should not be wikilinked]]). --''[[User:Stratadrake|Stratadrake]] 02:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)''
*'''Hell No''' For the reasons stated here and every other time this idea has been shot down. This is the last time this question will be asked. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 02:43, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''No''' per reasons stated by [[User:Sir hugo]] in the discussion found at [[Talk:Wii/archive14]]. He said, ''"This is childish humor that should not be included in WP. I consider it vandalism and stupid, it hurts the article more then helps it. By the way, this can be four year old humor even if an adult finds it funny, it just means that adult has the sense of humor of a child which alot of men do."'' and I couldn't agree with him more. // [[User:Sasuke-kun27|<font color="blue">'''Sasuke'''</font>]][[Special:Contributions/Sasuke-kun27|<font color="purple">'''-kun'''</font>]][[User talk:Sasuke-kun27|<font color="black">'''27'''</font>]] 02:56, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''No''' - I don't want to be repetitive, see the above reasoning.--<font color="red">[[User:Farquaadhnchmn|Farquaad]][[Special:Contributions/Farquaadhnchmn|hnchmn]]</font><font color="green"><sub>([[User talk:Farquaadhnchmn|Dungeon]])</sub></font> 02:58, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''No''' It doesn't add any value to the article. It's not mentioned in the article for the pronoun [[we]] so why should it be mentioned in the article for the Wii? There isn't even an article for "wee". This is wikipedia, not urbandictionary.--[[User:220.237.2.185|220.237.2.185]] 03:00, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' This user's user name is an IP address. If there is a policy against allowing unregistered users to participate in polls, could you please point it out? [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 03:26, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
***There's no policy, but IP votes usually carry less weight than registered users. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 03:29, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*<s>No - It is not especially notable. The only reference to urine that may be appropriate in the article would be in trivia section, or, if it's mentioned on something like [[Saturday Night Live]], the popular culture section. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 03:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)</s>
*'''No'''- This shouldn't even be an issue at this point. Let it end already. [[User:RobJ1981|RobJ1981]] 03:20, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''No'''- Nobody wants it already! It's immature, adds nothing useful to the article, and really is getting annoying. [http://www.caves.org/phpBB2/images/smiles/Beating_a_Dead_Horse.gif] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beating_a_dead_horse] [[User:Silverdragon706|FyreNWater]] 03:29, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Yes''' if sourced. Whoever wants to add information about these childish comments, he will have to find the references per our [[Wikipedia:Verifiability|verifiability]] policy. As far as I know, there are reliable sources which I found back when the name was announced. However, since I am not interested in having a long term conflict with susceptible editors, and people wanting to add a reference to the jokes are usually a) Sony or Microsoft fanboys; b) anonymous ips; or c) new accounts; I am confident the article will stay clean from that information. -- [[User:ReyBrujo|ReyBrujo]] 03:32, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''No''' In my experience this is dying down. The Wii has been out for three weeks now, and people are used to it. So, at this point, people came, laughed, got over it. So, my answer is NO. --[[User:Purplepurplepurple|Purplepurplepurple]] 03:36, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Yes''' - Urine is already refered to in the [[Wii#Name]] section. I don't think we need to mention the word "urine" in the article, but I don't see why we shouldn't change the phrase "a negative word in English" to "wee." "Wee" means more than just urine, by the way. It also describes the Wii's small size. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 04:05, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''No''' as per comments above. [[User:Hongshi|Hongshi]] 12:04, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Yes''' - if we're going to mention that it sounds like a "negative word in English", then it seems ridiculous and uninformative not to mention what that negative homophone is.--[[User:Victim Of Fate|Victim Of Fate]] 14:20, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Yes'''. As long as it is properly referenced, than why not? Many reputable sources mentioned and discussed the name, so finding sources shouldn't be a problem. The phrase 'a negative word in English' is vague and seems to be breaching [[WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_censored|Wikipedia is not censored]]. I am also unsure as to why [[WP:CONTEXT]] is being used as an argument against linking 'wee' here. Linking the word is essential to understanding its meaning. Furthermore, Wikipedia editors do not get to pick and choose which bits of relevant media coverage go in the article. This article isn't about putting a positive spin on the Wii, but detailing the facts. Facts are, there was negative press about the name. Dancing around the word 'wee' is tantamount to pretending it never happened. [[User:Hammer Raccoon|Hammer Raccoon]] 16:27, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Yes''' I completely agree with [[User:Hammer Raccoon]]'s statement. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 16:29, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Absolutely Not'''. It doesn't have even the slightest bit of relevance to the machine and it would reflect worse upon Wikipedia than Nintendo if we were to include such childish piffle. - [[User:NP Chilla|NP Chilla]] 16:43, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Heck No''' Kofi Annan's first name, when said by a New Yorker, sounds pretty much identical to "coffee". However, there is ''no'' mention of that in the article. Why? Because it isn't a matter of censorship, it's simply the fact that a few childish jokes do not create notability. (Bladestorm-Can someone sign this for me?) {{unsigned|72.88.47.226}}
*'''Weak No''' It serves no purpose, however if written maturely it would not hurt the article. [[User:Bradibus|Bradibus]] 21:29, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''No''' - references to urine merely open the door to further edits which would compromise the quality of the article. [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] 21:42, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Yes''' The inconsistency here is hilarious: the French word ''oui'' is explicitly stated (and wikilinked, no less!) yet the English connotation assumes the vague phrase "several words in English." As a proud owner of the Wii, I'm slightly ashamed that many editors heavily invest their collective time in protecting the system from any criticism. The truth is (as acknowledged by Fils-Aime) that when Nintendo revealed the name change, the name was ridiculed across the press. Do you know what word the media compared it to? It was ''wee''! And do you know the most common interpretation of the word? Because I don't want to poke fun at the console's name (anything but that!), I'll just say that it had to something to do with some sort of bodily function which shall remain nameless. It kills me how you guys are referring to ''other'' editors as immature. --[[User:Tristam|Tristam]] 21:39, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''No''' - I see no need to mention it in the article, unless it becomes far more notable as it is only school children that seem to be giggling about the name, and that in my opinion is not encyclopedic [[User:Golden Dragoon|Golden Dragoon]] 01:33, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
*:'''Comment''': are the editors of Engadget, Joystig, Kotaku, etc. children? [[User:Scepia|Scepia]] 05:23, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
*::Joystiq [http://www.joystiq.com/2006/09/15/tsk-tsk-ign-time-to-update-that-internet-use-policy/ has bloggers only] :-) -- [[User:ReyBrujo|ReyBrujo]] 05:31, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
*:::slash the blogs, I could give probably 25 sources for this. and don't tell me to "prove it". you know it, I know it, the Wikipedian people know it. [[User:Scepia|Scepia]] 01:56, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Comment''' - are college kids school kids? cause we had a wii pun contest at my college which i got second in. they were all completely inappropriate and i i posted what the winner was i would probable be banned from wikipedia for being offensive or something, but we all laughed our collective heads off. [[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 03:17, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Yes''' - see [[User:Tristam]]'s comment above. to say that Wikipedia users made this up or something is simply untrue. Engadget, Joystiq, Kotaku, IGN, GameSpot, I could go on and on, made reference to it. [[User:Scepia|Scepia]] 05:21, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Yes''' per ReyBruyo, Tristam. <font color="AE1C28">[[User:Jacoplane|jaco]]</font>♫<font color="#21468B">[[User_talk:Jacoplane|plane]]</font> 05:29, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Yes''' per [[User:Hammer Raccoon|Hammer Raccoon]] and [[User:Tristam|Tristam]]. It's immature and stupid yes, but it's a fact that it's mentioned by many people. It does add a little value to the article because it is an example of one of the many jokes made about the name. Just add that one sentence in a mature way. - [[User:Face zz|Face]] 20:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
**'''Comment''': Wow... 9.4 kb text about a single word, even more about the remote. This would make a pretty good South Park episode. - [[User:Face zz|Face]] 20:14, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Comment'''. Of course the jokes and puns are childish, but what people don't seem to understand is that when the [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4953650.stm BBC] and [http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/27/nintendo-wii-the-revolution-gets-a-real-name/ Engadget] reference the 'puerile jokes', [http://uk.wii.ign.com/articles/703/703593p1.html IGN] comments on some readers 'phallic designs' of the Wii, [http://www.guardian.co.uk/theguide/games/story/0,,1772388,00.html The Guardian] mentions the 'weak puns' and [http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=16413 gamesindustry.biz] acknowledges 'wee' means 'to urinate', it becomes notable enough to mention. [[User:Hammer Raccoon|Hammer Raccoon]] 20:35, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Yes''' Unfortunately, I have to say yes. It is ''fact'' that lots of people, including the ''mainstream media'', made a lot of comments, direct or otherwise, regarding the correlation of 'Wii' to 'wee'. However, this is not meant as a license to be juvenile. A well-sourced, maturely written mention of the humor that was derived from the name, is in order. "Durr, huh-huh, Wii means pee, lol" is not called for. But, not putting it in the article ''at all'' is "hiding it" IMO. [[User:Dannybu2001|Danny]] 21:13, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
:Just a comment, just like to point out that even 'wee' doesn't solely refer to urine. To me, it always meant, "small". (As in, a wee lad?) There's also "wheee!" (As in, something that you shout when rolling around in your chair across the computer lab) Would it really be appropriate to list every bloody word that it can sound like? (And, again, I can provide several citations likening the sound of Kofi (as in Kofi Annan) to 'coffee'. Still not in his article though) (~Bladestorm)
::Reply to comment... I realize there's more than one correlated word. The point is, which one did everyone pick up on the most? It sure wasn't 'whee' or 'oui'. I'm not advocating perfunctory potty humor here, but the (rather large) reaction to the name is culturally significant in direct relation to relaying information about the Wii. [[User:Dannybu2001|Danny]] 23:18, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''No''' per the reasons stated by Sasuke. [[User:DS9 Voyager|DS9 Voyager]] 21:15, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''no'''. Just "live with it, sleep with it, eat with it, move along with it." [[User:SYSS Mouse|SYSS Mouse]] 01:00, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''yes'''. The fact is, [[WP:NOT#Wikipedia_is_not_censored|Wikipedia is not Censored]], and in my mind, there is no reason to say, "wii sounds similar to words in english with negative connotations," and leave out what words. I think explicitly stating what words it's similar to can only help the point being made, as opposed to the vague nature of the sentence now.{{unsigned|Demeteloaf}}
**This is not about censorship. The only reason the comment about negative connotations was put in was as a compromise to those obsessed with urine. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 05:51, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Negative comment''', if it is mentioned then every other word in any language or slang that sounds like Wii needs mentioning too. I can currently think of 7 meanings of a word that sounds like Wii (yes, some have already been mentioned, but I'm putting them in one place and wikilinking them for completeness): [[Wii]] (obviously), [[wikt:we|we]], [[wikt:fr:oui|oui (French)]], [[wikt:whee|whee]], [[wikt:nl:wie|wie (Dutch)]], [[wikt:wee|wee]] (two separate meanings) - [[User:MTC|MTC]] 06:27, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' [[wikt:nl:wee|wee (Dutch)]] is pronounced differently from Wii and should therefore not be in your list. If you want to, though, you can add [[wikt:nl:wie|wie (Dutch)]] instead. [[User:Mausy5043|Mausy5043]] 17:35, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
***'''Reply to comment''' I stand corrected, It's changed now. - [[User:MTC|MTC]] 18:01, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' - We only need to include the homophones mentioned in the cited sources. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 07:21, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
***'''Reply to comment''' I agree, but has anyone come up with any cited sources yet? - [[User:MTC|MTC]] 14:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
****'''Reply''' - Yes, [[User:Hammer Raccoon|Hammer Raccoon]] in the above comment listed [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wii&diff=93648648&oldid=93644269 serveral sources] on 20:35, 11 December 2006 (UTC). [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 01:20, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
****User Hammer Raccoon seems to have cited some sources above, and I'm pretty sure other sources could be found if necessary. They ''certainly'' exist. I know this seems like a ridiculous discussion to be having about something so trivial, but I guess both sides just ''cannot'' see the other side's point of view.--[[User:Victim Of Fate|Victim Of Fate]] 16:24, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
**'''comment''' what about when you are pushing your son on the swing set and he goes "WEEEEEEE!!!!!!"[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 07:48, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
***'''Reply to comment''' That word is [[wikt:whee|whee]] and it is listed above - [[User:MTC|MTC]] 14:59, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
* '''NO'''. Okay '''kids'''. It's ridiculous we're having this discussion. The reference to urinating should go. There is no precendent for including something like this in an encyclopedic article. The entries for the homophones also do not refer to urinating. [[User:Mausy5043|Mausy5043]] 17:36, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''No'''. It's irrelevant. [[User:Kelvingreen|Kelvingreen]] 17:52, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
:How is something that has been widely reported in the mainstream media irrelevant? And can anyone come up with an arguement against including the reference to 'wee' other than "it's childish". Wikipedia isn't here to pass judgement on what the press reports. [[User:Hammer Raccoon|Hammer Raccoon]] 00:27, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
**'''Comment''' - Hammer Raccoon is correct. Did you guys miss Stratadrake's suggestion? ''Try to back them up with NPOV, logical reasons (because "stupid" or "lame" are not logical arguments).'' TJ Spyke's argument follows a vague "reasons stated here and every other time this idea has been shot down." Stratadrake's justification excepted, all of the above are in violation of [[Wikipedia:Assume good faith]] and fail to realize (or pointedly ignore) a use/mention distinction. Some "no" votes don't provide any reasoning at all, even beyond the standard "it's immature/stupid/lame/etc." To quote RobJ1981, "This shouldn't even be an issue at this point. Let it end already." In another "no" vote, SYSS Mouse uses Nintendo's justification for the name: "live with it, sleep with it, eat with it, move along with it." To reiterate a point: this has ''nothing'' to do with editors criticizing the Wii's name, but it has ''everything'' to do with maintaining NPOV and reporting what the media had fun over for a week, rather than tiptoeing around what exactly was said in hopes of distancing the Wii from its more negative connotations. You can accuse us of being PS3/Xbox360 fanboys all you want, but if you glance at the userpages of nearly EVERY ''yes'' voter here, you'll find a "This user prefers Wii" userbox. To continue, ''no user'' has addressed my observation over consistency with the name comparisons. As a final note, no one here is the sole arbiter of Wikipedia, this article, or even this discussion; as such, nobody present has authority in deciding whether this question will be asked again, or whether such a poll will be conducted again. --[[User:Tristam|Tristam]] 01:32, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
* '''Strong Yes - Edit:''' - It is childish to distort the story simply because the topic makes you uncomfortable. You can't say ''"members of the press, online communities and game developers initially reacted negatively to the name change. "'' without explaining ''why'' this negative reaction occurred, and the #1 reason is the urine connection. Nor can the reactions of children be dismissed, given that they are a major part of the market for the Wii. It needn't be dwelt on, but there is no debate that IS what the public reaction was. [[Urine]] is part of the story. [[User:Algr|Algr]] 01:02, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
** '''Nope''' - Only if there is a verifiable source, and not just some random weblost stating "OMG It's called Wee!" should it be stated in an encyclopedia, everyone with a basic grasp of english will get it anyway. [[User:Aetherfukz|Aetherfukz]] 01:07, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
****'''Reply''' - Yes, there are many verifiable sources. [[User:Hammer Raccoon|Hammer Raccoon]], in the above comment, listed [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Wii&diff=93648648&oldid=93644269 serveral sources] on 20:35, 11 December 2006 (UTC). [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 01:20, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''No''' - what is the motivation behind this? I am under the opinion that Wikipedia must strive to maintain a certain encyclopedic standard. This is why such childish crap would never be allowed in other unfortunately named articles (e.g. [[Bangkok]]). ˉˉ<sup>[[User:Anetode|'''anetode''']]</sup>[[User_talk:Anetode|╦╩]] 01:25, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
****'''Reply''' What's childish about the fact that analysts worried about the marketability of the product due to the fact that the product's name sounds like the word "pee"? Your Bangkok anology simply doesn't work. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 01:32, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
*****'''Reply''' The media doesn't go on about Bangkok. Jokes about the Wii's name were not and are not limited to elementary school playgrounds. --[[User:Tristam|Tristam]] 01:38, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
** Like [[Urine]] for example? See also [[Uranus in fiction]], which has a whole section dedicated to crude jokes. [[User:Algr|Algr]] 01:36, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Yes''' - there are ''plenty'' of media sources to back up the connotation. Yes it's childish, but that makes it no less verifiable or notable. -- [[User:Consumed Crustacean|Consumed Crustacean]] <small>([[User talk:Consumed Crustacean|talk]])</small> 06:34, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Yes''' - Let's not let childishness get in the way of documenting widespread childishness. A few citations should do the trick. --[[User:Maxamegalon2000|Maxamegalon2000]] 06:41, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''YES''' - saddly i must agree with these childish people who want to stick a referance to urin in every artical they can. this is verafiable fact and has been experianced first hand by every person here. it is a ligitamite part of wii history. even if it is childish and vulger.[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 06:45, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
*<s>'''Nay''' - A product's name doesn't really have much to do with the actual product. I find it kind of irrelivent. If you really want to point out how wacky it is that the Wii sounds like a word for urine, then make a category or list or something. -[[User:Ryanbomber|Ryanbomber]] 13:31, 13 December 2006 (UTC)</s>
**'''Comment''' - See, it's this kind of thinking that made me bring it up again. Nobody's saying that we should point out how wacky the name sounds. Nobody's saying that we should make fun of the console's name. All we are saying is that when the console's name was announced, a lot of people (inluding reputable news and games sites) commented on the fact that the name sounds exactly like the word 'wee', and this is a notbale point that is worth mentioning in the article, particularly as there is already a section on the Name. Are you suggesting we get rid of the Name section on this and other articles?--[[User:Victim Of Fate|Victim Of Fate]] 14:58, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
***Did you say this before? Must have skimmed over it for some reason. Anyway, it's a good point and one that's good enough to convince me. I personally think it's moronic, but I guess it DID happen, so I'm changing my vote to '''Aye'''. -[[User:Ryanbomber|Ryanbomber]] 16:08, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Yes''' - Initially against, I'm going to have to agree that "several words in English" is not informative enough. It's one thing for the console's name to be confused with "wee" meaning "small," which is innocuous, it's entirely another for the name to be confused with "wee" meaning "pee". If you're going to mention the controversy over the name, I think it would be remiss to leave out "wee" meaning "pee". --[[User:Psyphics|Psyphics]][[User talk:Psyphics|<small><sub>Ψ</sub></small>]][[Special:Contributions/Psyphics|<small><sub>Φ</sub></small>]] 14:44, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''No''' - No, never, nada, hayır, non, nein, nee, oxi, não, nyet, i-ie, bu. Get that?
*'''Strong yes''' - To avoid being repetive: just what Tristam said. [[User:85.166.229.190|85.166.229.190]] 17:12, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
**'''Oops''' - that was me. :) [[User:Cine|Cine]] 17:17, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
***Has anyone noticed that there are no references to farting in the [[Pong]] article? - [[User:NP Chilla|NP Chilla]] 10:47, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
****Feel free to add it, provided that you can back it up with several reputable sources who have equated the name with farting.--[[User:Victim Of Fate|Victim Of Fate]] 16:57, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Comment''': Anyone notice that the [http://gamasutra.com/features/20060501/sheffield_01.shtml source] linked ''in the article'' for the "Some wished Nintendo had stuck with 'Revolution'" mentions the "not unexpected urine jokes" in its introduction? Why would anyone care that there's a phonetic similarity to the French word for "yes" anyway. That's not what caused an uproar.--[[User:Psyphics|Psyphics]]<small><sub>[[User talk:Psyphics|Ψ]][[Special:Contributions/Psyphics|Φ]]</sub></small> 17:43, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Definitely Yes''' - This was a MAJOR point of contention within the gaming press when the name was first announced, and it deserves to be mentioned. Just because it is "embarrassing" or "silly" does not make it any less notable on Wikipedia, especially given its extremely widespread discussion on the internet and elsewhere. Its actually silly how its pretty much censored in the current revision ("several words in English"), which instead prefers to mention its similarity to the French word "''oui''" - a claim which is completely unreferenced and I have NEVER heard mentioned as a problem. As a relatively impartial observer on this (I don't play console games much at all) it seems to me that there is a strong reek of bias about this from fanboys who don't want to see their favorite console "embarrassed" -- [[User:Grandpafootsoldier|Grandpafootsoldier]] 09:10, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::'''Comment''': Shouldn't you have read some of the discussions before making baseless accusations? Who said it was embarrassing? And it was directly cited in the discussion that "oui" was mentioned. Shouldn't you have read before commenting? Do you even know what the points being covered are? [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 09:43, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:::You can't really blame him for not reading hundreds of comments about this lame topic. - [[User:Face zz|Face]] 15:29, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Yes''', but only as an '''extremely minor point'''. [[User:AKismet|AKismet]] 12:51, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''Absolutely Not''': I've checked Gamespot forums and did a survey about the name. Most people that voted have already gotten over the name-change, so it is no longer a relevant point.[[User:The Legend of Miyamoto|The Legend of Miyamoto]] 19:05, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
===Discussion===
Now that I'm into this anyway, I decided to enter 'Wii urine' at Google to find some much asked 'sources'. You want sources? Here you go:
'''News articles referencing directly to the Wii<->urine jokes:'''
*"[http://www.gamesforwii.net/news/another-name-change-for-the-wii.html Another name change for the Wii?!]" (Nintendo press release about the name. This can be the main source.)
*"[http://gamasutra.com/features/20060501/sheffield_01.shtml Wii Reactions: Developers Comment]", GamaSutra, May 1, 2006 (Mentions directly and quotes.)
*"[http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=16413 Nintendo announces Revolution's real name]", Gamesindustry.biz, April 27, 2006 (Mentions directly.)
*"[http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=138673&skip=yes Nintendo takes piss with final Rev name]", Computer and VideoGames, April 27, 2006
*"[http://www.theaveragegamer.com/2006/04/30/wii-around-the-world/ Wii around the world]", The Average Gamer, April 30, 2006 (Many quotes. Very funny!)
*"[http://www.kotaku.com/gaming/wii/wii-pisses-people-off-170106.php Wii Pisses People Off]", Kotaku.com, April 27, 2006
*"[http://www.wiisource.info/name.php name]", WiiSource (Another press release regarding the name and its jokes.)
'''Some even started a petition against the name:'''
*[http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/wii_sucks/signatures-1.html Make Nintendo change Wii back to Revolution], iPetitions.com
*[http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/nintendowii Are You Serious, Nintendo??], Petitionspot, April 27, 2006
'''Some blog mentions:'''
*"[http://www.britishgaming.co.uk/index.php?s=wii+urine Fear My Time Keeping]", British Gaming blog ("In a break from all the urine based jokes for Nintendo Wii, more scans for Zelda...")
*"[http://www.katundu.com/2006/05/13/the-wii-is-not-a-urine-sample/ The Wii is not a Urine Sample]", Katundu
'''Other mentions:'''
*"[http://cnet.com.au/games/wii/0,239036428,240062320,00.htm Goodbye Revolution, hello Wii]", CNET.com.au, April 28, 2006 (Be sure to read the comments.)
*"[http://forum.wordreference.com/showthread.php?t=250492 "Wii" sounding like "wee"]", WordReference.com, October 1, 2006 (It even made the WordReference forums!)
:'''Well''', that's it for now folks. Forgive me that I don't include the thousands of forum/blog posts and many other jokes, and not all about urine. - [[User:Face zz|Face]] 18:30, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
::Hold up there... if you want to include the urine references, then you ''have'' to include the ''other'' references as well. I think you're ignoring that half of the problem. Quick show of hands people, who here has seen or heard the word, "'''''wiitard'''''" or "'''''wiitarded'''''"? Hmmm? Google had 19,000 hits on wiitard, and 20,000 hits on wiitarded. Starting to see the problem? And don't forget that 'wee' isn't exclusively a urine reference. It's a word for "small", and sounds like, "whee". And the ''only'' way to list urine references non-neutrally is to also start talking about how it sounds like "small" and "whee" as well. If you don't, then it loses all neutrality. And you'll ''have'' to include "wiitard". See the problem? If you start acknowledging every bloody joke anyone has ever made, then it starts padding the article with outright stupidity. And seriously, I absolutely '''demand''' that you also include the reference to how 'coffee' sounds like 'Kofi' in the Kofi Annan article. I can find ''hundreds of thousands'' of hits on that one, so I absolutely demand that you include it. If you want to be consistent and neutral, then everyone who supports the urine references ''must'' include the kofi/coffee references as well. Otherwise you're revealing your own lack of neutrality. (What's good for the goose is good for the gander) [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 03:52, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:::If you have secondary sources for "wiitard" and "wiitarded", "wee" as in small, and "whee" being used to mock the console's name, then by all means I think we should mentioned them. I feel like the same should probably go for "Kofi" and "coffee" if you can find reputable sources that show Annan to be mocked for his name in this manner. I don't think anyone here's insisting that "every bloody joke anyone has ever made" be mentioned, only the one(s) given extensive coverage. --[[User:Maxamegalon2000|Maxamegalon2000]] 04:02, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::I can easily provide several sources for "wiitard". But do you think it'll match ''notability'' requirements? Are you people forgetting that not everything that's verifiable is necessarily notable? It should be pertinent with respect to the article's subject as a whole. If you include wiitard, "wee"-as-in-small, and "whee"... you're going to end up with a whole paragraph or two. Do you really think that homonyms merit that much attention? Every childish joke any putz could possibly come up with? Just because it's verifiable, that makes it notable? [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 04:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::The only person I've heard calling people "Wiitards" is [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]]. Anyway it's not necesary to list every word, that would be too long. At most mention the top three. Wee don't evven have to mention any name it's called. We could just say, "The Wii has been the subject of many jokes comparing it to urine" like the [http://www.gamesforwii.net/news/another-name-change-for-the-wii.html main source article] says. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 04:30, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::But why urine specifically? Again, do a bloody search. "Wiitard" yields over 19,000 hits. And tell me, when are you going to mention the kofi/coffee thing in the Kofi Annan page? And when are you going to edit the Uranus article to include your-anus? What lends notability to one but not the other? [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 04:46, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::::Because we have reliable sources utilizing the urine reference. Most uses of Wiitard are in forums, which don't really count. Also, see the Google search for [http://www.google.ca/search?q=wii+urine+OR+pee+OR+penis&start=0&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official wii urine OR pee OR penis], which garners a whopping 1,140,000 results, or just [http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=Nv2&q=wii+urine+OR+pee&btnG=Search&meta= wii urine OR pee], which gets 684,000. -- [[User:Consumed Crustacean|Consumed Crustacean]] <small>([[User talk:Consumed Crustacean|talk]])</small> 04:54, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::::First off, reliable sources substantiate verifiability, not notability. That said, [http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&safe=off&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&q=wii+spaghetti wii spaghetti] yields 384,000 hits. Don't rely on google for ''everything''. :D And again, when are ''you'' going to modify the Uranus and Kofi Annan articles to prevent you from being inconsistant and non-neutral? [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 05:02, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::Nevar! Relative to its media coverage, the Wii wee references aren't too small. Relative to the body of literature, astrology/astronomy/otherwise, accumulated on Uranus, the anus references are pretty light. Same of Kofi, and all his news coverage. -- [[User:Consumed Crustacean|Consumed Crustacean]] <small>([[User talk:Consumed Crustacean|talk]])</small> 05:11, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
Hope you don't mind me skipping the :'s. Getting very wide. :) So then, first off, do '''''not''''' equate "wee" references with being solely urine references. As far as "urine" and "pee" are concerned, combined they register 684k hits. So, you want to look at it relative the overall coverage? Fine. Compare that to 189 ''million'' hits for 'wii'. That'd put it at... what... ''almost'' 0.4%. Hmm... interesting... That'd mean that the hits alone mean a resounding ''no''. But let's ignore the numbers. Please, by all means, ''give me'' your rationale for why you think it's notable? In terms of being necessary for understanding what the 'wii' is? Hmm? Tell me why a person reading about the 'wii' would be confused right up until they saw the word, "urine"? And while you're at it, tell me the cutoff for what should or shouldn't be included? (wee for small? wee as a homonym of 'whee'?) [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 05:37, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:You're jumping between using Google as a source, and not using Google. We have ''sources''. The big S. The [[WP:V|Vish]] S. I'm really not incredibly dead set on including the reference (no where near how I'm sounding here :P), but there you go. -- [[User:Consumed Crustacean|Consumed Crustacean]] <small>([[User talk:Consumed Crustacean|talk]])</small> 05:50, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
That sounds 0.4% stuff sounds good. The [[Wii#name|name section]] mentions the good things about the Wii's name. Shouldn't we include criticism of the name to keep the neutrality balanced? [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 06:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Well, I hadn't read it as being overly "positive" as such... I mean, "kidiness", the fact that fans liked "revolution", and such was mentioned... If you still feel it's unduly positive, then by all means, that ''should'' be addressed. Tell me, what did you think of my suggestion of simply saying that it's inspired several puns and portmanteaus, both good and bad? (Or, perhaps making reference to the existence of several homonyms? It is neither positive nor negative, and also doesn't put undue focus on any specific homonym) [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 06:06, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Yeah, that sounds good, but I don't know how to work that into the section the way it's currently laid out. Oh, that second one fits better, though. "Some wished 'Nintendo had stuck with 'Revolution,' making reference to the existence of several homonyms." I'm kind of confused on what exactly we were voting on above. Are we voting to exclude this statement entirely "pointing out phonetic similarities to the French word 'oui' and several words in English." or are we just voting whether or not to change "several words in English" to something like "a slang word for urine?"
:::::As far as I know, we're voting on whether or not to specifically mention "urine". I don't imagine ''anyone'' would strongly object to dropping the reference to "oui". And I think most can agree that it's necessary to acknowledge that people are having fun with the name in general. (I just don't think it's appropriate to pick a single specific interpretation of a single specific word and declare it absolutely necessary) [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 07:03, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::Algr brought up another interesting point. While although the "Uranus in fiction" article ''does'' mention some references to the obvious jokes, you'll notice that the main article on [[Uranus]] '''''does not include those stupid childish jokes'''''. Because it's trivial. You can find '''far more''' "uranus/your anus" jokes than "wii/wee" jokes very easily, and yet, they ''arent' mentioned'' in the main article. Know why? Because '''''that isn't of the same level of notability and pertinence as the other information in the article'''''. So, if you support including urine references in the wii article, then you're obligated to support mentioning anus jokes in the uranus article. Because it's more easily sourceable, has more cultural examples, and is more well-established. Just keep that in mind. If you support mentioning urine jokes, then you must support including wiitarded, kofi/coffee and uranus/your-anus jokes as well. Because all are easily documentable. (And both the kofi/coffee and uranus/anus jokes are ''more'' prevalant than any wii/urine references) [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 04:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::"wii urine" brings up [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=jDi&q=wii+urine&btnG=Search 290,000 Google hits]. "uranus "your anus"" brings up [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=tDi&q=uranus+%22your+anus%22&btnG=Search 11,900], and ""kofi annan" coffee" brings up [http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla%3Aen-US%3Aofficial&hs=uYN&q=%22kofi+annan%22+coffee&btnG=Search 440,000], though a quick look makes me think they aren't all related to his name. One of the things that may be different about Annan, though, is that his name wasn't created by a corporation for a new product, but that's more of a discussion for [[Talk:Kofi Annan]]. --[[User:Maxamegalon2000|Maxamegalon2000]] 05:00, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Well, thanks for at least addressing Uranus and Kofi Annan. However, a couple things to keep in mind: First, there are dozens of different ways to phrase the "your anus", "yeranus", "uranus"(but pronounced differently), etc... But heck, I can actually cite an episode of Futurama that specifically touched upon the subject (to stop that stupid joke, it was eventually renamed... to Urectum). Can you cite a mainstream tv program that mentions the wii/urine thing? Google hits aren't really evidence of anything, other than the existence of a spelling. Also, there's no reason to assume that all hits including wii and urine are making the same point either. (otherwise, "wii spaghetti" shows that spaghetti ''must'' be mentioned as well) As for Kofi Annan's name, he ''was'' given that name by someone. The fact that it was by his mother/father instead of a corporation is immaterial. It's still a name given to him. And is citeable. And I'm not going to bring it up on the Kofi Annan talk page, because I think it's a terrible idea. However, every person who supports mentioning urine in this article, but not Coffee in the Kofi Annan page, or sphincters in the Uranus article, is revealing their own lack of neutrality. Notability should be consistently applied. Support it for one, support it for all. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 05:15, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::You not only ignored what I said (or have no yet read it), but haven't read/understood [[WP:NPOV]]. Personally I was really just using the Google results to point out how little used "Wiitard" is, since you used the figure of 19,000 results to say that it's just as notable as any other silly usage of the name. It's the actual ''sources'' that I'm primarily concerned with. -- [[User:Consumed Crustacean|Consumed Crustacean]] <small>([[User talk:Consumed Crustacean|talk]])</small> 05:21, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::::Bladestorm, I would definitely say that Wii's "3 MB GPU texture memory" was not mentioned on TV. in many ways, the internet is more influential than TV. Wii = urine and other things (I won't say exclusively urine) was certainly mentioned... um... on every gaming website, so to speak. I don't see 100s of big-name posts about Kofi = coffee. [[User:Scepia|Scepia]] 05:41, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:Mind if I ditch the :'s again? First off, that doesn't really, in any way, illustrate that examples that ''do'' make it to tv are less-than-notable. That said, did you follow all of those hundreds of thousands of links to see the context of each kofi reference? And perhaps most importantly, EXACTLY! YOU WON'T SAY EXCLUSIVELY URINE! The fact is, there are ''numerous'' possible homonyms and portmanteaus that have sprung up as a result of the name. Saying ''that'' is just fine. But the only reason to focus on any single specific one is stubborness (or an unhealthy preoccupation with urine). Here's a thought, "wiimote" is a portmanteau that has stemmed from it, but as you know, I don't think that's necessary for understanding the wii as a whole. "wiitard" has been used to describe both nintendo fanboys and in at least one case, someone who wasn't so good at controlling the wiimote ([http://www.thewiiexperience.com/wiitard-gives-girlfriend-a-shiner/ As in this case]). The wii itself, being so small, can be described as "wee". When I've said, "I want a wii", I've been directed to the bathroom (as a joke). When telling people about the wii, it's not uncommon for them to proclaim, "wheee!". The point is, none are more notable than the others. Some get more hits. Some are used more. Some get more hits ''solely'' because they're cheaper, easier, or more childish. However, I don't think it'd be appropriate to list them all. And yet, any subjective method for picking and choosing would be just that: subjective. Simply put, while although I'm fine with acknowledging that people have had fun with the name, I think it's entirely appropriate to say that it's inspired numerous puns and portmanteaus. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 05:53, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Are you a kidding? I can't believe you even mentioned Kofi Annan, yet alone thought it pertinent to ask others why they hadn't addressed your stupid point. "every person who supports mentioning urine in this article, but not Coffee in the Kofi Annan page" - Let's just back up here, do you really think mentioning a coincidence that you've just coined up above, is tantamount to commenting on a much reported name change? If you can cite articles commenting on Kofi's hilarious clown name, then yes, it might be worth discussing. I can't even believed the user above mentioned Google hits on the Kofi, when he should have just told you to shut up and that your argument was absolutely flawed.
:::You absolutely fail to understand the arguments presented above, if you think that the inclusion of a urine reference means that any random Google "Wii spaghetti" should be included. (another asinine example from yourself) The whole argument above relates to the fact that there are numerous reliable sources which commented on the wee reference in light of the Revolution/Wii name change. Here's [http://labs.pcw.co.uk/2006/04/nintendo_wiis_o.html Personal Computer World's] take, [http://www.gamesindustry.biz/content_page.php?aid=16413 Gamesindustry.biz's] take. Unless you come up with similar such articles for Kofi Annan and Wii Spaghetti, then it's pointless to even mention them.
:::Uranus is different, it's different, because unlike your other pissy arguments, it has a point. Why isn't it mentioned in the main article? Well, I think it's because its pretty well covered in the [[Uranus in fiction]] article. But I wouldn't mind a passing reference to the trivia in the [[Uranus in fiction]] article in the main one. What we don't have for Uranus though, which we do have for [[Wii]] is a whole section dedicated to the renaming of the console from Revolution to Wii, and its reaction. I somehow doubt that the newspapers at the time of Uranus's discovery reacted negatively to the naming due to the "your anus" reference possibility, or that the astronomer had to publicly defend its name. Even the Forbes article linked from the current paragraph mentions toilet humour connotations.
:::I really can't be bothered about this. I don't care if its mentioned, what I would like though is some consistency, why is oui mentioned? Why even detail the negative responses if you're not going to elaborate on them why? Is it even that important? And what I really can't stand, are crock of shit arguments like those presented above, exacerbated by your incessant demands that those ridiculous arguments are countered. - [[User:172.189.89.233|172.189.89.233]] 06:05, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::May I remind you to be civil? Otherwise, your comments will just be blanked. (Anonymous entries calling people "retarded" are typically deemed vandalism)
::::But anyways, I didn't coin the coffee/kofi thing myself. It was an annoying jerk I heard on tv a while back, and just happened to be the first example to pop into my head. So, anything about me coining the term: irrelevant. The "wii spaghetti" reference was just to show that numbers alone mean squat. If you took it to mean anything other than that, well, then, not my fault. As for Uranus, read a bloody talk page every now and then. The only reason there ''is'' a "Uranus in fiction" article as a separate article is because the editors found that material too ''stupid'' to include in the "real" article. Try to read before you comment.
::::I never suggested that "oui" was pertinent. To be honest, I don't see the point of it. I don't personally think that ''any'' specific homonym/portmanteau should be named, because then you need to list them all. So, your point about kofi: wrong. Your point about spaghetti: wrong. Your point about Uranus: wrong. In other words, you should have good points, or at least a civil tone. Without either, you won't be getting any more attention. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 06:13, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::Actually, his point about coffee/Kofi is still valid. Whether or not you coined it, you're bringing it up now. Basically, it seems to me that we need to establish the answer to the following questions:
:::::*Does the name rhyme with 'wee'?
:::::*Did people comment on this?
:::::*Was the amount of comment widespread enough to be notable?
:::::*Are there suitable sources that we can cite?
:::::*If yes to all of the above, should it be included in the article?
:::::It would be useful to know exactly which hurdle those against including it think that it falls down at.--[[User:Victim Of Fate|Victim Of Fate]] 10:01, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::Your point about Kofi: irrelevant, Your point about numbers: irrelevant. You decided to ignore the various sources criticising the Wii/Wee connection and instead focused your argument on Google hits by bringing up your own brands of spaghetti. As interesting as you feel this tangent is, you're not addressing the point at hand. Same for the Kofi Annan thing, I have no idea why you even mentioned it, let alone expected a response to such abhorrent nonsense. Do you still fail to see the difference, between one annoying jerk on TV and various reliable references? I don't even need a civil tone when my "good points" absolutely crap over your irrelevant comments, that you still fail to see how your points have no input to the debate absolutely fails me. Maybe you are as you seem. - [[User:172.189.89.233|172.189.89.233]] 16:31, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::::(I'll address 'anonymous' first) Holy crap, have you ever considered ''reading'' an argument before arguing against it? I mentioned that the kofi/coffee thing was on tv only to illustrate that your assumption that I made it up was incorrect. However, if you look at my ''original'' point concerning it, ''there are hundreds of thousands of hits supporting adding that stupid joke to his article''. And no, I'm not overly concerned with Google hits. I use that as an example to counter people who think that google hits ''are'' relevant. You can find google hits to support several bad ideas, and actual rational logic deserves a consideration.
::::You ''do'' need a civil tone, because if you keep getting so rude, then your comments will be blanked out. If your points are so weak that they can't exist without being littered with insults or attitude, then they have ''no weight whatsoever''. Incidentally, before praising your own "good points", you might want to consider having at least ''one'' first.
:::::Maybe you should try reading mine. Have you finally agreed that your point on Kofi Annan is absolutely irrelevant to the conversation? Instead of addressing the main point over the Kofi thing, such as lack of sources, you've gone off on another of your funny tangents regarding who invented it. Google hits are largely irrelevant anyway, unless they come from reliable sources, which incidentally your store brand spaghetti fails. Do you still fail to see this? Do you still fail to see the difference between your obtuse farcical arguments from the counter-arguments raised? Unless you come up with multiple reliable sources for your Kofi/Coffee craziness or Wii spaghetti, then no matter what tangent you attach to them, they still fail to address the arguments presented.
:::::We already indicate that Wii sounds like we, and rightly so, being that it's "very verifiable". Why don't we indicate that it sounds like wee as well? There are multiple reliable press sources over the Wii/Wee homonym, this alone suggests its notable enough for a ''mere mention'' in the article. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/172.212.53.15|172.212.53.15]] ([[User talk:172.212.53.15|talk]]) 19:51, 14 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
::::::Arrrgh! Not this again! K. This is the last time I'm saying this to you. Nobody would ever support including references to jokes on Kofi's name on his talk page, because they aren't notable as far as the man is concerned. Relative politics and such, it just doesn't warrant a mention. Ain't pertinent. You can verify they've been made, but that doesn't manufacture notability. People can find documentation to prove that "wee" jokes have been made, even in abundance. But nobody's proven notability. If every bloody verifiable joke is automatically notable, then that snowballs to all of wikipedia turning into one massive joke. Get it? No? Too bad. The ony reason I mentioned spaghetti was as a ''direct'' commentary on the fondness that some people have for quoting google hits. Google hits prove very little. Doing a search on wii and spaghetti proves this. Nothing more, nothing less. I wasn't using spaghetti to prove that urine is irrelevant. I was using spaghetti to prove that google hits don't hold much weight. This I have proven. Deal with it.
::::::You make the mistake to say that the verifiable existence of such jokes automatically makes them notable. This is not so. Furthermore, you made no attempt to address where one should draw the line in terms of what should or shouldn't be included. If you really want to include everything that can be verified, then that'll mean a paragraph or two. You'd have to address each meaning of "wee" (people who solely associate it with urine have some sort of unhealthy preoccupation with human waste). You'd also have to include wiitard. Is it stupid? Of course. But it's verifiable. You'd also have to include references to "we" in the sense of "we" puns (as opposed to simply a pronunciation guide). Heck, you'd even have to leave in that stupid "oui" reference if anyone could find a single source for it. (and I sooo would like to see that one gone) In short, unless you address the exact ''method'' for deciding which terms to include or not, you really aren't providing much of a solution. My solution is easy. You chose to ignore it entirely. That's your prerogative. But I think I'm done with you, your condescending tone, your insults, and your refusal to actually address issues directly. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 20:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::::I've addressed the points, you may continue to ignore them. Multiple reliable sources infers the notability, and you have that for the Wii/wee homonym. This is what we don't have for spaghetti/Annan analogy which you seem to be so fond of. I doubt that you're going to find multiple reliable sources which comment on the phrase "wiitard" and how that was spawned from the console name. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/172.212.53.15|172.212.53.15]] ([[User talk:172.212.53.15|talk]]) 20:42, 14 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
::::Now, as for Victim of Fate: There are a few problems.
::::*First off, nobody's done much to discuss notability other than the fact that it's verifiable. That doesn't automatically manufacture notability.
::::*Second, there are several words that you could make the same argument about; the question becomes, where do you draw the line? Wii has been used for "we" (Wii have a problem? Very verifiable.). It's been used for "wee" as in small. It's been used for "wee" as in urine. There have been portmanteaus (and more will come, I'm sure). It's been used for wiitard (in entirely different contexts). It's been used for wiimote. There are several possible things to point out with the name. There are only two options: Pick one, which implies that there's only a single significant pun/portmanteau, or include them all. If you include one, then it's a slippery slope to have to include them all. If you include them all, then you're up to a paragraph or two, when ''none'' of it is really significant for understanding the wii as a console.
::::See the problem? It's one of those things that just snowballs. Even if it ''is'' to be included, I'll have to expect people to include: Clear notability rationale that does ''not'' rely solely on the fact that you can find people using it; but rather a rationale stating how urine (but only urine) is necessary for knowing what a 'wii' is. A clear argument saying why only one pun/portmanteau should be included, to the exclusion of all others (except, of course, for people who feel that all should be included; in their case, I expect a rationale for using so much space talking about puns in a hardware article). [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 17:55, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
"Wiitarded" is not a valid comparison because thousands of words have had " -tarded" appended as a suffix. But when was the last time a commercial product had a name so closely resembling a body function? Particularly a product who's target audience is prone to make such connections. Similarly "Uranus"'s jokes appear in it's closest equivalent to an "audience reaction" section, as does Wii's. If you want do discuss the audience reaction, at all, then you must discuss what actually happened.
Can "body function" be a compromise? Lets see... [[User:Algr|Algr]] 18:29, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:Please do edit the segment in the Wii article until a consensus is reached. [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] 18:43, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::That isn't a valid reason for saying that "wiitard" isn't a valid comparison. The fact that there's a precedent for such jokes hardly means they don't exist. And I don't see your point in terms of uranus. That said, no, referring to "bodily functions" is pointless, as it still suffers the same problems: It includes nonencyclopedic immature humour, and it arbitrarily chooses a single pun/portmanteau, to the exclusion of all others. I still say it should simply make some sort of mention that many fans vastly preferred the old name of Revolution, and several homonyms/puns/portmanteaus(however you want to phrase it) abounded. (Or to simply include the reference to the "kidiness", or simply say that several jokes were made) That way, you aren't ignoring that it's happening. You aren't arbitrarily choosing a single joke and obsessing on it. You're maintaining the audience's reaction while not drifting from the point of the article. It just seems more logical to me. And there isn't even a whiff of censorship, as all jokes/etc are treated equally. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 18:57, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
It is important to note the distinction between verifiability and reliable sources. (By the way, can we drop the whole Kofi Annan thing and focus on the problem at hand. Too many variables people...) Now, several '''reliable''' sources have been listed above reporting the 'Wii'/'Urine' business. So far, no sources at all have been produced mentioning 'Wiitard'. The reason users are pushing for 'urine' to be mentioned and not every other homonym is because these references can be backed up by reliable sources. [[User:Hammer Raccoon|Hammer Raccoon]] 23:30, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:Well, what specifically are the "urine" sources proving? That ''somebody'' has made the jokes? Because a "reliable" source for a joke has a pretty low standard. If so, then here: [http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wiitard Urban Dictionary], [http://www.destructoid.com/moments-in-wiitard-nation-first-idiot-to-break-his-tv-with-wiimote-27999.phtml wiitard nation reference], [[Wiitard|Wikipedia's entry]], [http://www.wiihaveaproblem.com/show_article.php?id=64 In the comments], [http://www.thewiiexperience.com/wiitard-gives-girlfriend-a-shiner/ In the title]. Keeping in mind that, if what you're trying to say is that people have made urine jokes, then all you need to prove is that people have made wiitard jokes. (I'm not going to list the other tens of thousands) [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 23:46, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::You know what the best part about this whole debate is? The very same footnote used to cite developer criticism about the name change includes a quote from developer Ernest Adams which reads "Nintendo has just named its console in a way that sounds like a slang word for urine." Bladestorm, I have to assume you're unfamiliar with [[Wikipedia:Notability|Wikipedia's notability guideline]]: ''A topic is notable if it has been the subject of multiple, non-trivial published works whose sources are independent of the subject itself.'' Based on these guidelines, the urine comparisons qualify as notable; your Kofi "coffee" Annan does not. The same goes for Wiitard; if you want to prove a point, avoid self-published websites, a relatively low-profile gaming blog, internal references/tertiary sources (i.e., Wikipedia's entry), and websites that allow anyone to submit and edit entries (i.e., Urban Dictionary and Wikipedia). --[[User:Tristam|Tristam]] 05:58, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::So, tell ya what, I'll address each of the included references.
:::*First one, a gaming site of questionable reliability. (the point of the article was to say that they were going to change their name, and had questionable sources. The fact that it hasn't changed raises concerns of reliability)
:::*Second one, in addition to mentioning "oui" (which means we'd have to keep that in as well, ugh), is just several people's personal comments, hardly more legitimate than anyone else's. But even if they were, the two acknowledgements of the possible connection to 'urine' are specifically to minimize the significance of that connection. That is, '''they agree with me''', and believe it doesn't affect the impression of the system as a whole. So, either it's unreliable, or it agrees with me. Either way, it doesn't prove notability.
:::*Third one, merely a quick note speculating that it could have a negative reaction, ''without documenting the slightest bit of actual reception at all'', '''''and''''' it also mentions "wee" as in small. (I believe the second one did as well) So, this source did ''nothing'' to further the argument for including a urination reference. And, even if it did, it'd also require including other homonyms.
:::*Fourth one, doesn't acknowledge urine at all in the article itself. The only vague urination reference is merely a UK slang referring to them changing the name at all; nothing to do with the actual choice of name.
:::*Fifth one, includes an example of childish comments, but in the article itself, establishes that any possible urine connections are entirely irrelevant. In other words, they prove my case, not yours, in that they explicitly deny any significance (and thus notability).
:::*Sixth one, closest to criticism so far, but they don't actually ''say'' it. You have to infer it. A single implied (but not explicit) reference doesn't make a case.
:::*Seventh one, where to begin with this... Well, first off, it also uses "oui", "wee" as in small, and "whee". If it's reliable, then you need to include all three. See it snowballing? But, besides that, the article was copy&pasted from elsewhere. Personally, I think that you need to cite ''original'' sources, not second-hand, if you want to consider it reliable/notable, not copy&pastes.
:::*Eighth one, an online petition... um, yeah... that's far less reliable/notable than the ones I cited for "wiitard". 'nuff said.
:::*Ninth one, ditto. (Incidentally, the first page doesn't mention "urine", but does mention, "The wii is gay because Tomis gay." Nice work. Nice to see that ''this'' is what you consider reliable and notable. Nice.)
:::*Tenth one, doesn't actually talk about the naming issue. All they say is, "In a break from all the urine based jokes for Nintendo Wii, more scans for Zelda..." Um... that's it? Just a joke at the top of an image page? Not an article? Or even an editorial? Holy crap, you consider this a reliable and notable source? Sorry, but wiitard in one of the sources sooo ranks higher than that. (keeping in mind that I don't support "wiitard" either)
:::*Eleventh one, just used for a tagline. They admit they used toilet humour to compensate for being late in reporting, and because they needed a hook. That is, they prove the choice of name itself was entirely immaterial to the point of the article. That is, it's a non-issue here. So, this one fails as well.
:::*Twelfth one, um, why is this one here? '''''They don't say urine at all. They don't acknowledge any possible urine references in any way. All they have is good things to say about the choice of the name. They didn't see any significance in bothering with immature jokes.''''' In other words, this "source" works ''solely'' in my own favour. And I can't see why it was included in the slightest. Go ahead, read it. You can find some comments in the 'comments' section, but the same is true of "wiitard". And I thought we weren't going to count any sections where any schmuck could freely post? Something about that lacking notability?
:::*Thirteenth one, forums do not count. In any way, shape, or form. If blogs/articles that people actually read don't count, then ''entirely freely-open'' threads/forums don't count in the slightest.
<br />
:::So. I actually did it. I followed all thirteen links.
:::And not a single source actually supporting its inclusion. Nothing to prove its notability. If you were going to hide behind those sources, shouldn't you have read them first?
:::Some of them support me. None of them support including the reference. And even those that ''could'' possibly support it (if you severely lowered the bar, used your own interpretations, and made it entirely subjective) would just as strongly support including "wee" as in small, "oui" for yes, "whee" for fun, and even wiitarded. And, frankly, I don't think that ''any'' of those are valid in the slightest.
:::So, in the total absence of a single valid source. And in the total absence of a single argument supporting notability (aside from tristam's entirely good-faith attempt, which lamentably relied on sources that worked against his own argument)... what is the bloody problem with simply stating ''something'' to the effect of it having inspired several puns/homonyms/portmanteaus/however-you-want-to-phrase-its? [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 07:06, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::: Bladestorm, read your own comments. You have just acknowledged that all seven news sources mentioned urine at roughly the same level of prominence that we feel is appropriate for the article. None of them "support you". None of them say "even though we just reported this story, it would have been better if we had suppressed it, and not told you the real reason people don't like the name." We are not here to tell people what they should and shouldn't think about. We are here to report on what is actually happening. The article is currently false in its suggestion that the protests are about the "sense of 'kidiness' " the name gives. No one really believes that, so why report it that way? [[User:Algr|Algr]]
If instead of Wii, Nintendo had given their machine a name that sounded like "Nazi" or "9-11", would there be any thought of striking "Nazi" from the article? No one here seems to be questioning that the "urine" connect is the main reason why people are protesting. So what this boils down to is that we are just too embarrassed to report the story properly. If this is the case, then rather then giving false reasons for the protest, we should strike the whole section as being beyond wikipedia's abilities.
-
- I think that Nintendo did not do this by accident, but is in fact using some very sophisticated marketing maneuvers here. In this case, the first impression is not what counts, because this impression was made months before anyone could buy the console. Instead, it works in Nintendo's favor because when people finally see the Wii in stores, their reaction is "What ever happened with that silly name?" And they then go to look at the console to find out how the old story ended, and start playing with the wiimote. Nintendo guests the last laugh, much like what happened with the Titanic movie. [[User:Algr|Algr]] 17:48, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:Oh please, tell me you're kidding. I mean, where the heck do I begin with that? First off, tell me precisely ''which'' sources you think prove your point. I've already proven mine; your responsibility to prove yours. As for nazi... oi... and no. '''''I question whether the urine connect is the main reason why I'm protesting.''''' Granted, I don't like the urine reference. But, if you mention ''that'' one, then you also ''have'' to mention wiitard, wiimote, "wee" as in small, "whee" as in fun, and "oui" as in yes. And I don't want that much crap filling '''a hardware article'''. Unfortunately, much as I might like to, the whole section can't be scrapped, because some of the information is still pertinent. While although I suspect that these feelings have largely faded, there ''was'' an initial sense of disappointment from people who thought "Revolution" was a much better name. That needs to be included. There ''are'' a buttload of puns/homonyms/portmanteaus. That fact should probably be mentioned as well. However, they all deserve the ''same'' treatment. I think that means stating that they exist, but not bothering to list every (and thus any) bloody one. On the other hand, saying that puns/etc. have been made still needs to be verified inline. I don't give a flying crap what those linked sources are. I don't care if it's linked to the "wii is urine, that's all it is, so there" homepage. Here's the situation: Picking a single reference implies that the others don't exist, but even if the current sources were reliable, they'd support at least 5. Not including any of them in-text keeps on-point. There are puns. That's pertinent. People have had fun with the name; entirely true. First thing I thought of when I heard the name was "wheeee!" and groaned. And then remembered how small, or "wee" it is. And groaned. And then I told somebody that I want a wii, and their reply made me groan. These things happen. They're relevant. But bothering with 5 or more bloody puns in a hardware article puts undue attention on it. Just say that they exist. Include whatever friggin' sources you like. What is so wrong with that? What's wrong with being consistent and neutral? [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 19:17, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
I direct to; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranus and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Uranus_in_fiction#Humor. You'll see that the both sides of this are present on Wikipedia. Do the same in regards to this. "Wii Humor" hell you can even use "Wee humor" as a listing in it. [[User:PBaker|PBaker]] 22:52, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:You don't need to direct me there. We already know about that. But notice that it isn't in the original Uranus article. It wasn't deemed notable, and was shuffled off to a separate article entirely for precisely that reason. (they talk about it in the talk page for one of the two) Anyways, I'd rather come up with a better solution than breaking part of the info into a second article. Still looking for general comments on my last comments/questions. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 23:06, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
I can't be bothered wording this properly so here we go:
*Several [[Wikipedia: Reliable Sources|reliable sources]] have been produced noting that 'Wii' sounds like a slang word for urine.
*Some sources not meeting [[Wikipedia: Reliable Sources|Wikipedia's reliability standards]] have been produced for the "buttload of puns/homonyms/portmanteaus".
*What puns should be referenced: the one we have lots of [[Wikipedia: Reliable Sources|reliable sources]] for, the ones we don't, or none of them?
Incidentally, and quite hilariously if you ask me, the wikinews story linked to in the article says this: ''"In the immediate aftermath of the announcement, the name recieved much critisism for sounding too much like "wee", an English slang word meaning urine."'' No messing around there. [[User:Hammer Raccoon|Hammer Raccoon]] 13:05, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
===The result so far===
Its now 16 December 2006, 16:15 (UTC). I've counted the votes so far and it seems like a draw for now:
18 for
17 against
I've counted the two votes from the two IP users who voted 'No' and 'Heck no' and the 'Weak no' from user Bradibus as one vote against. IP votes usually carry less heavy.
Should we keep this strawpoll open for a little longer? - [[User:Face zz|Face]] 16:18, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:Honestly don't bother - it's a waste of time - relevant issues are easily settled in a few lines. The ridiculous amount of space taken up by this question just highlights it's trivial nature. The same argument applies to 'Wiimote', 'Wii vs the Wii' etc.[[User:87.102.4.180|87.102.4.180]] 17:00, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:(edit conflict) I say close it. The poll has been good in that it has shown that the issue at hand is not as clear cut as many might of thought, but there is no way that any kind of consensus will be reached by voting. [[Wikipedia:Discuss, don't vote|Discuss, don't vote]]. [[User:Hammer Raccoon|Hammer Raccoon]] 17:09, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::I leave for about a month and another urine reference argument pops up? You people infuriate me, since this has been archived. Case Closed, next time someone comes and asks again, I'd tell them to STFU. And if this isn't acceptable, just blank their comments, heck, even if Jimbo Wales comes in and tells us what the name should be, tell him to STFU or blank his comments.
::The only thing we get out of this is another argument with the same results, and more reason as to why WP:LAME is there.--[[User:Signor|Signor]] 07:58, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Oh drop it. [[WP:OWN]]. Besides, new discussions can and often do happen; there are no restrictions on re-nominating articles for AfD, for instance. We're definately not hitting a consensus either way, but that's no reason to censor discussion. -- [[User:Consumed Crustacean|Consumed Crustacean]] <small>([[User talk:Consumed Crustacean|talk]])</small> 08:01, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Exactly. This will continue to be brought up, and I think it's been established that no consensus has been reached yet. Are you saying that because there's no consensus, we should just do things your way?--[[User:Victim Of Fate|Victim Of Fate]] 12:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:I understand most of you are getting angry and tired of this, and frustrated that the strawpoll, miraculously, ended in a draw. But if we don't solve this now for once and for all, another discussion will be brought up in a few weeks, with other members getting involved.<br />I may have an idea for a compromis: we '''do not''' mention urine jokes, nor any other jokes about the name Wii. Instead, we provide links to websites who '''do''' mention them. How's that?<br />I have edited the name section and, in my opinion, improved it. I've tried to put it as decent if I could: "The name launched thousands of jokes and Photoshop parodies, comparing it with several other known words." I have included many of my sources I stated [[Talk:Wii#Discussion|above]]. Enough urine jokes there! ;-)<br />This way, we do not mention it, but we point at it. - [[User:Face zz|Face]] 13:08, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::Better. Much better than mentioning 'oui' and not 'wee'. "Several other known words" still sounds a bit iffy though. If I think of something better I'll be sure to mention it. [[User:Hammer Raccoon|Hammer Raccoon]] 18:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:::I'd say it's much better now; and it's a legitimate way to get rid of "oui". Obviously, I'd prefer if it was phrased ''slightly'' different, as I agree that the current phrasing is just ''slightly'' iffy. But I'd still say it's a massive improvement. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 19:46, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::Yeah, I'm not English actually, forgive me my limited grammatical knowledge. Feel free to alter that sentence if anyone knows something better. Btw, thanks user [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] for improving some of my other sentences! - [[User:Face zz|Face]] 21:10, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
I realize this is trivial, I realize that it's juvenile, and I really don't care that much, but it really seems to me like censorship and a lot of pseudo-apologetics to justify the censorship. I think that "oui" and "wee" (as in small) are rather innocuous and not worthy of uproar, however "whee!" adds to 'kidiness' and "wee" (as in pee) makes the machine a target for ridicule. Regardless, the compromise of "phonetic similarities...to other words" is fine, and I hope this will end soon. --[[User:Psyphics|Psyphics]]<small><sub>[[User talk:Psyphics|Ψ]][[Special:Contributions/Psyphics|Φ]]</sub></small> 18:04, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
:Wikipedia provides the information, including information that will be ridiculed. [[User:Scepia|Scepia]] 05:54, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
::Maybe I wasn't too clear in what I said above. I agree with you. Maybe that will frame the reading above. --[[User:Psyphics|Psyphics]]<small><sub>[[User talk:Psyphics|Ψ]][[Special:Contributions/Psyphics|Φ]]</sub></small> 13:48, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
=== Proposed compromise: "... similarities to words suggesting bodily functions." ===
*'''Yes''' It doesn't need to say "urine" but it DOES need to give the major reason why people were protesting. [[User:Algr|Algr]] 04:31, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
*<s>'''yes with amendment''' that specific examples, (urine, etc.) are mentioned. no one said "Wii = bodily functions", they said "Wii = pee" and so on. [[User:Scepia|Scepia]] 05:08, 19 December 2006 (UTC)</s> vote retracted
:: I think that would moot the point of the compromise, which is to describe the objection without actually subjecting the reader to the crudity. It returns us to the original position with all its objections. We won't get a consensus like that.[[User:Algr|Algr]]
:::I see your point, switching vote to no. [[User:Scepia|Scepia]] 05:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''no''' because the proposed statement is way too ambiguous and readers would not neccesarily understand what "bodily functions" are, and wouldn't know about the real thing, urine/etc. [[User:Scepia|Scepia]] 05:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
:: What if the words "bodily functions" linked to [[Urine]]? [[User:Algr|Algr]]
:::or better yet, we stop denying the facts and covering them up as bodily functions. [[User:Scepia|Scepia]] 05:56, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
*'''No''' - So we're trying to keep people from having to be "subjected to crudity"? That's censorship. What's wrong with the word "urine"? It's a medical term, isn't it? --[[User:Psyphics|Psyphics]]<small><sub>[[User talk:Psyphics|Ψ]][[Special:Contributions/Psyphics|Φ]]</sub></small> 16:58, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
:: Sheesh! I'm on your side here. The only thing wrong with "urine" is that a bunch of people are opposed to it. Right now the article is just wrong. But isn't a tactful description better then meeting stubbornness with stubbornness and having an unending conflict? [[User:Algr|Algr]] 04:28, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
::(Off topic) Please, take a bit of care when writing things like "the article is just wrong". Some people tried their best to write an article meeting the needs of a large audience.
::''<font color="navy">[[User:MaxDZ8|MaxDZ8]]</font> <small>[[User_talk:MaxDZ8|talk]]</small>'' 05:35, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Sorry, Algr. Not trying to come at your throat, but if we're going to come out and say we're changing the word to skirt crudity then we're admitting to censorship. That's the point I was trying to make. --[[User:Psyphics|Psyphics]]<small><sub>[[User talk:Psyphics|Ψ]][[Special:Contributions/Psyphics|Φ]]</sub></small> 14:14, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
I don't think you'll see much support for this suggestion. It's much too vague for starters, and linking to urine without mentioning it would just be censorship. Personally, I can't see how the wording in the article as it is can get much better. There's no way the word "urine" will ever be put in the article with such stubborn, uncompromising resistance, and using a wording like the one suggested just makes it sound like we're dancing around the word "urine" again (which of course we are). Best compromise for now is to just link to the articles stating what we're apparently loath to say. [[User:Hammer Raccoon|Hammer Raccoon]] 12:41, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
:Raccoon, you want to remember the policy on "assuming good faith"? Start remembering it. Now.
:It's the pro-urine editors who have been far more stubborn. And calling the people who simply want consistency "stubborn" and "uncompromising" is downright insulting.
:You ''can't'' specifically mention urine without also mentioning wiitard, wiimote, 'wee' as in small, 'whee' for fun, and 'oui' as in yes. You haven't got a choice in that matter. It's one or the other. Specifically mention one, or specifically mention them all. Your attempts to pick a single one, and focus on that, in spite of that absolute lack of evidence, citation, or even logic to do so, is the direct and sole cause of the debate. It was never because I 'loath' urine. It was because it's entirely inconsistent, and entirely lacking in neutrality. Stop accusing other people of your own flaws. Stop accusing bad-faith.
:The current phrasing is good, not because it doesn't say urine, but because it doesn't single out ''any'' single word, to the exclusion of all others. Remember the complaints about how it only mentioned 'oui'? That's solved. If it only mentioned urine, then there'd be problems with why it didn't mention 'whee'. Reluctance to butcher the very nature of neutrality isn't the same as stubborness. And any time you find yourself so vehemently opposed to the idea of being consistent in an article, perhaps you should ask yourself what ''your'' problem is, before you start attacking others. Same goes to you, algr. Start being consistent.
*:: The distinction is obvious. Wii=urine appears in several real news sources. Wiitard does not; any word can have -tard appended, so it has no connection to the Wii. Fun & Whee are Nintendo's intent so including them is reasonable. And no one is complaining about oui. I just heard an NPR story that used "Wiimote" exclusively, so yes, it to belongs in the article. As for "Bad faith", our side WON the urine poll above and I am still trying to satisfy the concerns of the other contributers by suggesting this compromise. [[User:Algr|Algr]] 04:00, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:(Yeah, I know, this sounds insulting and grouchy, too. But I'm getting tired of being accused of stubbornness and such by people who are far more guilty of such things) (~Bladestorm)
::y'know, it's easy to accuse the other side when you're on the defense. we're arguing to get something included, you're arguing to leave it broken. not everyone is aware that "negative meanings" are really urine, and so on. the average person might think "oh, they're talking about wee, as in small". WP is not censored. please, start being consistent with policy. [[User:Scepia|Scepia]] 21:26, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
Excuse me... do you guys want to count the votes again? Because I'm getting more No's than Yes's. Of course, there are two things to keep in mind when tallying. First, votes aren't supposed to matter anyways. They're never binding, and editors keep touting "concensus" over "voting". Secondly, I'd count everybody's vote equally. And if you count all votes equally, it ''seems'' that there are more no's than yes's. Am I miscounting? Or are you claiming a non-existant victory, people?
<br/>Next, give me these citations. '''You''' think there are citations that clearly elevate urine above all others? No problem. Cite them. I went through all 13 previously included links, and broke every single one. Even the ones that came ''close'' to being applicable also supported wiimote, 'whee' as in fun, 'wee' as in small, and 'oui' as in yes. And the ones that came closest to making actual urine connections were ''weaker'' than the wiitard references I previously cited. If you want to say they're ''all'' invalid, then that's just fine. But you can't choose weaker sources that support you over stronger sources that conflict with your views. Incidentally, a recent ign headline implied that wiimotes are dildos. I take it you want to include that as well? No? I should hope not.
<br/>Either way, you aren't really helping, because you're ignoring the point.
<br/>My problem isn't with the word, 'urine'. As such, "bodily functions" doesn't help at all. My problem is with elevation of any single term when all are equally valid/invalid.
<br/>Being more obscure in your giving special treatment to a single word still isn't even remotely similar to treating things equally. Singling out a single word in a confusing fashion is still singling it out.
<br/>The current phrasing is the best we've had so far. Insisting that a desire to be consistent and neutral is 'stubborn', 'censorship', or absolutely anything negative at all is insulting. And seriously, count those votes up again, because I'm seeing more no's than yes's. Am I missing something? (~Bladestorm)
:Yes, you are missing something. The vote shows that there's no current consensus on what to do. It shows that it's not the case that those wanting to include a reference are not a small minority, and that the issue is therefore still up for debate.--[[User:Victim Of Fate|Victim Of Fate]] 11:43, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:Apologies Bladestorm, the uncompromising resistance I was referring to are the many 'no' voters above who barely stated any reasoning behind their argument other than "it's childish" and "no one wants it". The fact that only one 'no' voter (yourself) has bothered to continue arguing their cause suggests to me that there will be no reaching consensus with these other users. Furthermore, I do not believe the 'yes' voters have been stubborn. We have presented, what we believe, to be valid sources showing the predominance of the urine jokes over other puns. If you are questioning the validity of the sources then look at [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4953650.stm this BBC article] and [http://www.engadget.com/2006/04/27/nintendo-wii-the-revolution-gets-a-real-name/ this engadget article] both referencing "puerile jokes" (maybe that's a catch-all phrase we could use instead of listing all the jokes/puns). And as for my stubbornness in opposing consistency, please look at this [http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk%3AWii&diff=94929108&oldid=94900975 diff] where I support the recent changes to the articles wording. (Oh, and I count more no votes above as well, but it is true that IP votes don't carry as much weight, and you'd need a clear majority on such a contentious issue as this to come to any kind of consensus. Even then, votes aren't binding.) [[User:Hammer Raccoon|Hammer Raccoon]] 11:58, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:Hammer, I'll say it now: I really do appreciate you addressing which links you think really stand up. Unfortunately, I'm not entirely seeing them as being very strong in terms of *just* urine. For example, I'm sure that puerile jokes includes urine references, but it could also refer to several others. They don't explicitly state it, so it doesn't quite make the case. (delightfully good reference to highlight the significance of the original reaction to not calling it 'revolution', though. Can I assume that, in the second link, you're talking about in the comments? Because the comments ''do'' make that kind of connection. But there are two problems there. The first is that I was shot down for citing examples of 'wiitard' that could've been made by just anybody. The comments section is just that, since anybody can post there, so it's of the same level (or of slightly lesser value) than a couple of the wiitard references. Also, the comments also use the other homonyms.
:That said, thanks for actually discussing the ''specific'' citations. I'm so tired of these other people just saying that there ''are'' citations, without backing it up. For reference, I'm not saying that everybody who voted 'yes' was the problem. Just the people who claimed victory on the poll, in spite of having fewer votes in their favour. And Victim, that was what I was talking about. Algr claimed to have ''more'' votes, when he actually had yes. I didn't claim that everybody agreed with me, but... Algr and Scepia were claiming that they had ''won'' the survey, and anybody who can count can see that just isn't so. I think the survey really only served to prove that polls in wikipedia are really only good for getting basic feedback. Anyways, I think we're good with what we currently have. If you think of a slightly better phrasing Hammer, then that's just fine and dandy by me. I just think we're onto a good ''style'' of solution. (~Bladestorm)
::I understand your concerns. It's not up to us as editors to determine what is and is not controversial in the article. I believe we all understand that the phonetic similarity to a word for urine (if not the only controversial part of the name) adds the ''most'' controversy. So, in order for "urine" to be mentioned (esp. as controversial) what is needed?
::#A reputable source (or more than one?) has to mention the joke?
::#There must be critical or fan reaction to said joke?
::#Something else?
::The first two references are not necessarily good for what we need in this. The third reference mentions specifically that "the name is unlikely to go down well across the large swathes of the English-speaking world - including the United Kingdom - where "wee" is a very common children's slang phrase for the act of urination." It continues, saying that "wee" as small is at least 'appropriate' (and thus arguably innocuous). One doesn't necessarily need to note fan reaction if there are no sources, you can mention the media's reaction to the name. The fourth reference mentions the urine reference in its title ("takes piss"?). The others I agree are throwaway -- petitions, blogs, and forums. I understand the burden of proof is on us as editors, so in order to help us understand each other and build consensus, could you, Bladestorm, as the most vocal critic of its inclusion, explain what is needed for the urine reference to be included in the article? I can rescind my support of its inclusion if I agree with what you understand the policy to be and why what sources we've found aren't supported by it. I believe it's noteworthy, but if there are no sources to back it up, I understand leaving it out. --[[User:Psyphics|Psyphics]]<small><sub>[[User talk:Psyphics|Ψ]][[Special:Contributions/Psyphics|Φ]]</sub></small> 16:47, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Just a reminder, you can't use the fourth one. While although they're probably having a bit of fun, they're basically just using the expression, "taking the pi%%". It seems to be more common in the UK than in north america, but it's still a pretty common expression. The third one only speculates about possible problems with fan reception of the name. But, as speculation, they're only guessing at how people will react, not commenting on the actual reaction itself. Also, they also mention 'wee' as in small. So, if it's support for including one word, then it's equal support for including the other.
:::To be honest, I don't see ''any'' way to include urine without also including wiitard, wiimote, 'wee' as in small, 'whee' for fun, and 'oui' for yes. I'm sure you ''can'', if you look long enough, find citations to make the urine connection, but you'll also find equally good ones for the others. And I very seriously don't want to be listing all of them, because then you're devoting a whole paragraph to puns, in an article dedicated to a piece of hardware. That's why I like the current solution. It treats them all the same. It acknowledges that they've been made. It provides a link to at least one example to demonstrate that it's happened. It doesn't take up undue space. It doesn't pretend that only ''one'' joke has been made. In that regard, it doesn't cover up any information.
:::But that's my opinion. I still have to answer your question. If you want to include it anyways, then I suppose what I'd require for a citation is some sort of an example that specifically and directly references the urine jokes, in a way that doesn't explicitly minimalize them (ie. an article saying that urine jokes mean absolutely nothing isn't a good citation), but still of a level of notability and reliability that I couldn't also find comparable citations supporting any of the other puns.
:::That is, probably a proper published source (obviously, electronicly published is fine), that includes a direct criticism of the name, explicitly because of the urine connection. And it should be something where I couldn't find a comparable article saying the exact same thing, but with, "wheeeee!" And, if possible, more than one citation fitting those criteria would be pretty nifty.
:::BTW, this is absolutely NOT directed at you. You've been civil, cooperative, and just plain positive. But I just want to point out an ign headline, [http://wii.ign.com/articles/751/751182p1.html here]. "New Nintendo Strap-On Penetrating Europe". Just because someone pokes a bit of affectionate fun in a headline, that doesn't make it a 'real' criticism. Unless, of course, we're going to include references to wiimotes being dildos in the wii remote article. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 17:12, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Understood on the fourth one. The third one could be an example of media criticism of a "urine"-sounding name, but granted it would be weak for a discussion of reception. For now, until better sources can be found (and I don't have time to look), I'll rescind my support. --[[User:Psyphics|Psyphics]]<small><sub>[[User talk:Psyphics|Ψ]][[Special:Contributions/Psyphics|Φ]]</sub></small> 17:27, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
Firstly: I quote from Bladestorm's comment above: "''what I'd require for a citation is some sort of an example that specifically and directly references the urine jokes, in a way that doesn't explicitly minimalize them (ie. an article saying that urine jokes mean absolutely nothing isn't a good citation)''". No one here wants to write in the article "The Wii has a silly name therefore it is a terrible console." Similarly no respectable gaming magazine/website or other potential source is going to write off a console based on its name alone. However, sources might criticise the ''name'' or mention audience reaction to the ''name''. These sources are perfect for what we do want to write about in the article, that there was a negative reaction to the name.
Secondly: The engadget article I quoted above mentioned how they weren't going to sink to the level of making "puerile jokes" - I was not referring to the comments when I cited that article. I reaffirm what I said above; the sources don't necessarily have to criticise the name themselves, just mention that there has been a reaction to the name.
Thirdly: We can absolutely include urine and not wiitard. Are you telling me people reacted negatively to the name because it sounded like wiitard? And while I'm on this point: Bladestorm, what do you personally believe caused much of the negative reaction to the name? Was it the fact that it made the Wii sound small. Was it that it made it sound kiddy? Or was it that it sounds the same as slang for the act of urination? [[User:Hammer Raccoon|Hammer Raccoon]] 14:20, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
:Well, no... It's true that sources don't need criticise the name themselves, if all you want to show is that there is ''a'' reaction, and that there are ''some'' sorts of jokes... but if you want to list a specific one, then absolutely yes, they do have to spell it out for you. That said, everybody knows the primary source of criticism for the name. And it isn't urine.
:The primary source of criticism of "wii" is that it '''isn't''' "revolution". That was it. (at least, initially) People liked, "revolution", and they were disappointed for a while when it was changed to anything else. And I'm not saying that a respected magazine has to say, "the wii is crap, just because it might sound like urine to a 5-year old!" But a source saying something akin to, "urine jokes entirely miss the point, and will have zero impact on the console at all," certainly aren't good enough. And if the only sources you can find are of the same level as ones that use other words, then that puts them as being equal in verifiability.
:And, I think I addressed your question in terms of what people first criticized, but since I may not have fully addressed it, I'll add to it. No. Not urine. For anyone I told the new name of the wii to, the first reaction I always got was, "wheeeee!" (But, notice that not even that is a criticism. It's a joke.) And, just to check, I don't need a comment on whether or not you think it's applicable, if you don't want to get into it, but did you at least notice the example I cited where wiimotes are likened to dildos by a respected source? You need to be reasonably careful when deciding which jokes to include or not. (~Bladestorm) <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/72.88.64.22|72.88.64.22]] ([[User talk:72.88.64.22|talk]]) 15:31, 22 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
===Why this discussion will never end ===
''I went through all 13 previously included links, and broke every single one.''
I participate in [[Apollo Moon Landing hoax accusations]] and have dealt with wikipedians who have "broken" every bit of NASA evidence that there was ever a moon landing. Bladestorm, you need to understand that simply convincing YOURSELF that your arguments are superior is worthless. EVERYONE thinks their arguments are superior. If you think that half the participants in this discussion are simply going to go away because you've declared yourself smart, then you deserve to be stuck in this discussion forever.
I've been trying to find new alternatives that satisfy more people. You keep arguing that including "urine" would mean including other words too. Then include them. They are NOT all equal, but I've given my opinions on them above. [[User:Algr|Algr]] 09:03, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:Fascinating... Really and truly fascinating... I went, step-by-step, through all 13 links. You never gave direct arguments for why any of them ''were'' valid, to the exclusion of other words. And yet, you think that a general clumsy criticism is somehow a good way to counter a detailed account and rationale? Hmm. Yup. Definitely interesting. So then, here's where we currently stand:
:I've gone over all 13 links, stating why they don't support that bloody reference to the exclusion of all others. Nobody has once ''directly'' countered those. Until they do, they can all be considered "broken". (That is, there are arguments against them, and a total absence of specific arguments supporting them.) I don't say I'm right just because I've convinced myself. I'm saying that if you want to pretend to have citations, then you need to list (and be prepared to defend) at least a single one. Since you haven't/can't, you don't have any.
:I ''do not'' support including ''all' of them. Because now you'd be talking about urine, small, wiitard, wiimote, yes, and fun, all in an article '''''about a freaking game console'''''. Not a single one of them is necessary to understand what a 'wii' is. Knowing that people were making jokes about it, and especially knowing that people were initially upset at the change from 'revolution', those are actually ''relevant''.
:Why will this argument never end? Because I'm willing and prepared to go step-by-step through any and all arguments. I won't shy away from anything. My money is where my mouth is. However, the same can't be said for the people pushing for urine references.
:So, where do we currently stand? A survey that has more votes ''against'' mentioning urine than for. Clear and direct arguments against singling out any specific pun/homonym/portmanteau. A total and absolute absence of ''defended'' citations supporting urine references. In short, to any reasonable person, the case is closed. Survey says no references to urine, which can be interpreted as no single words isolated as though they're alone. Clear and logical arguments say no single words isolated as though they're the sole references made to homonyms/etc. Common sense dictating that including ''all'' of them would be downright silly. (seriously, does anyone actually want to mention ''all'' of them?) We have an argument that's essentially closed, and yet we're still arguing.
:''That'' is what I'd call the reason this argument won't end. You refuse to actually address issues directly. You refuse to defend a single citation. And yet, you accuse others of being the cause of the problem. Give it up. Just give it up. And, incidentally, likening my arguments to those of paranoid conspiracy theorists is hardly civil. (~Bladestorm) <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/72.88.64.22|72.88.64.22]] ([[User talk:72.88.64.22|talk]]) 09:21, 21 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
:: ''"You never gave direct arguments for why any of them ''were'' valid"''
:: There are TEN PAGES from at least three people up there explaining this to you, and you couldn't hear a damn thing. And then you write this as though no one had said anything! This is EXACTLY like the moon hoax arguments. It is like a trial where you can't convict unless you convince THE DEFENDANT that he is guilty. You demand infinite proof, and dismiss anything that doesn't agree with you as "questionable". [[User:Algr|Algr]] 10:35, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Thanks for proving me entirely right.
:::There were 13 links initially provided, one after another.
:::I addressed every single link, one after another.
:::Nobody directly addressed a single specific criticism there.
:::I don't demand infinite proof. You want to see an editor acting on good faith? Look at Hammer's response to my challenge. He provided two specific links that he thought were valid.
:::Now look at your response: "You demand infinite proof". Wrong. I demanded ''some''. You provided ''none''. I asked for specific links that ''you'' thought proved your point, you provided none. That's your fault, not mine. I was specific, you threw general accusations. Read it over for yourself. Absolute fact. Deal with it.
:::Seriously, look at Hammer's response, and look at yours. See the difference? That's all the response you get until you start trying for real. No more, "The reason this argument will never die is because of blahblahblah" crap. Stop it.
:::And, incidentally, stop with the moon landing references, they're pathetic. Providing 13 links without a single explanation isn't "proof". If someone thinks the moon landing was faked, you don't show a starless picture to prove they're wrong. That'd be stupid. You explain ''why'' there aren't stars in the pictures. See the difference? No? I don't care anymore. Start discussing. Stop accusing. Or leave it to someone who's actually willing to cooperate (eg. hammer), who may not completely agree with me, but is at least making a genuine effort. (~Bladestorm)
== Legal status of nunchuk ==
In, for example, Germany, it is illegal to own nunchuk. Also (as I recall), they can be owned in the UK but must not be publicly visible outside of a martial arts training dojo. Admittedly the nunchuk controller hardly resembles a real nunchuk, but I am curious about any legal/popularist reaction to the "nunchuk controller". (Remember the "Teenage Mutant ''Hero'' Turtles" scandal in the UK?)
<br/>
[[User:138.243.228.52|138.243.228.52]] 16:19, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
:Um... I'll admit that I'm ''not'' familiar with the TMNT scandal in the UK, but I'm going to venture a guess... did it have to do with the fact that Michaelangelo used nunchucks/nunchuks/nunchaku/however-they're-spelled-these-days? See, that's the thing... the 'nunchuk' controller is only called so because it's tethered to the wiimote in a fashion which makes the complete assembly vaguely resemble the concept behind a nunchuk. However, it is, by no means, mistakeable for a weapon. There are cellphones these days named "Katana", but I'm pretty sure you can conceal these phones without fear of being arrested. Nunchuks, referring to the real thing, are illegal in far more than just Germany, but there's no way any cop will look twice if he sees a wiimote and connected peripheral. (At least, not until some stupid kid tries to use it to garrote someone and then ruins it for everyone) (~Bladestorm) <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/72.88.47.226|72.88.47.226]] ([[User talk:72.88.47.226|talk]]) 19:48, 10 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
::I think it was more like the word "ninja" was to violent for kids. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 20:36, 10 December 2006 (UTC)
Sorry for the slightly confusing original post. The UK turtles ''scandal'' (in no way connected to nunchuk) was the percieved violence of the word "ninja" and the series content in general. Anyway, thanks for the clarification.
<br/>
[[User:138.243.228.52|138.243.228.52]] 00:56, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
:Well, it was the [[BBC]] who made the decision to rebrand TMNT as TMN''H''T in the UK, so if Nintendo haven't made the decision to rebrand the nunchuck, I don't think anyone will force them to.--[[User:Victim Of Fate|Victim Of Fate]] 12:16, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
::There is a section on the [[Teenage_Mutant_Ninja_Turtles#Hero_Turtles|Ninja Turtle censoring]]. It says senses with Michelangelo's nunchaku were edited out. It's kind of strange that nunchaku are violent weapons, but Leonardo's katana are peaceful as a flower. The section ends by saying the censoring laws were abolished at least three years ago, so Nintendo's nunchuk should be okay in the UK now. [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 18:17, 12 December 2006 (UTC)
== Sales numbers ==
it says wii has sold 50,000 units in europe and the source for that says its sold 50,000 in the uk and all the other sites say 50000 in the uk {{unsigned|81.132.67.233}}
:I've made the correction. [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] 17:38, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
Clarification, 105,000 units have been sold in the UK. 325,000 have been sold world wide.
:Correction: 325,000 have been sold in Europe in the first two days of launch [http://pelaajalehti.com/2006/12/13/wii-eurooppa-myynti source]. Accurate worldwide sales numbers are not yet available and frankly I'd wait until next year to report anything.{{unsigned|130.233.16.105}}
== Prices in Colombia ==
Wii, the Colombian people, were having the Wii in stores since November 19. But there appears to be little or any info of the Wii and accesories' prices in Colombia and Latin America. Not only the first world has the right to be prioritized.
[[User:200.21.238.118|200.21.238.118]] 23:47, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
:Most of us don't live in Columbia or have that info. Do you have any sources that have this info? You can also be bold and add it yourself. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 23:52, 11 December 2006 (UTC)
== E-mail/Wii-Mail ==
I dont know if im just totally missing it, but the article seems to be lacking any information concerning the fact that Wii's can send and recieve e-mail as well as picture attackments in the form of jpeg's with those e-mails.--[[User:Azslande|Azslande]] 00:32, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
:Try [[Wii Channels]]. I don't think it has everything, but it does talk about the picture e-mail feature.--<font color="red">[[User:Farquaadhnchmn|Farquaad]][[Special:Contributions/Farquaadhnchmn|hnchmn]]</font><font color="green"><sub>([[User talk:Farquaadhnchmn|Dungeon]])</sub></font> 00:04, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
==Archive==
Oh, dear... has anybody seen how goddarned ''huge'' the table of contents is?!?? This talk page ''definitely'' needs to be split into an archive or two! --[[User:Luigifan|Luigifan]] 12:23, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
:You can't archive and blank the Talk page while there are multiple ongoing discussions! [[User:Sockatume|Sockatume]] 13:13, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
::I don't think this is quite how you archive a page. I just blanked the redirect so we could get at it. I'm not exactly sure what to do here. If someone could sort this out, that'd be great. -[[User:Ryanbomber|Ryanbomber]] 13:14, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
:::At this stage the only way this can be corrected is a page move, and in instances where the target page already exists I think we'll need an Admin to do that. [[User:Sockatume|Sockatume]] 13:16, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
::Archiving process was me. I used [[WP:ARCHIVE|page-move archiving]] (which also archives the page's history), which '''is standard procedure'''. Side-effect of a page-move archive is a few-minute interval where the Talk page is nothing but a redirect to the archivepage; the overall disruption is minor. Though next time I think I'll copy over the archived topics ''before'' I start pruning the older ones (rather than copying + pruning simultaneously). --''[[User:Stratadrake|Stratadrake]] 13:24, 13 December 2006 (UTC)''
:::Wait with archiving until this damn wee survey has ended. - [[User:Face zz|Face]] 18:30, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
::::In retrospect, yeah, I guess that would have made more sense. *shrugs* --''[[User:Stratadrake|Stratadrake]] 23:43, 13 December 2006 (UTC)''
== Requests for comment ==
There is an apparently unresolvable dispute about terminology. The nature of that dispute is captured pretty well in the [[Talk:Wii#should_Wiimote_be_mentioned.3F|"Should Wiimote be mentioned"]] section. 06:05, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
;Statements by editors previously involved in dispute
*ok, Wii Remote is the correct name, bu i haven't heard anyone say wii remote in everyday conversation for months. as just about everyone calls it by the incorrect name i think it diserves to be mentioned in the artical. [[User:J.L.Main]] 19:04, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
*The only people i've seen call it Wiimote are people on messageboards. It's mentioned on the Wii Remote that it's unofficially called that. No need to mentione the wrong name anywhere else. [[User:TJ_Spyke]] 00:07, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
*Wiimote" is nothing more then slang, and is mentioned in the separate article. Do I call it the "Wiimote"? Yes, but that doesn't make it the correct term. [[User:ConnertheCat]] 15:10, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
*The term "Nintendo Wii" seems to be more common than "Wii" in retail marketing (for clarity if nothing else), and referring to the console with a "the" is common grammar for mass-produced items (as contrasted to a company or group name, such as Apple or Microsoft). As for the Wii Remote, I agree with Jecowa's last statement in that the nickname "Wiimote" is already mentioned in the Wii Remote article, but for sake of factual accuracy needs little to no mention in other articles which refer to it. [[User:Stratadrake]] 04:15, 2 December 2006
*It is factually accurate that "Wii Remote" is the official name. It is also factually accurate that "Wiimote" is more common than "Wii Remote." [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 05:46, 2 December 2006 (UTC)
*Sorry your wrong. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Naming_conventions_%28common_names%29 Clearly states that the common name is to be used and whilst it talks about the page titles as a special case, it does not make a distinction against titles of things used in a page. It's been demonstrated that its common name is Wiimote. Placing the hidden text about not changing it without consulting the talk page was presumptious because this dispute has not been solved. It is a fact that according to Wikipedia guidelines the title of the section and the title of the separate article should be Wiimote, with the official name mentioned in the text of the article. [[User:Ajmayhew|Ajmayhew]] 14:07, 5 December 2006 (UTC)
*The solution is simple, next to all mentions of Wii Remote, put in hidden text the following: "Do not change this to Wiimote, see discussion." [[User:Dionyseus]] 06:09, 2 December 2006
;Newer comments (from RFC)
*I'm sorry, but doesn't it at least deserve a mention in the article? If no other reason than for clarification of the distinction between the two? I believe that the word wiimote, which I believe was coined by Matt Cassimisina at IGN Wii, has had a profound effect on many people's perception of Nintendo PR and Marketing. In fact, I remember an interview with Perrin Kaplan, VP of Big N's Marketing in the US, where she specifically said that someone had made a slip during a speech and had called it a Wiimote, making the joke that Matt had done some marketing spin for them. [[User:LavaHot|LavaHot]] 09:35, 16 November 2006 (UTC)
*Remember that Reggie, NoA's president, has called it the Wiimote on occasion. It's not the official term, and it shouldn't replace Wii Remote in the article, but I think it deserves at the very least a nod. -[[User:Ryanbomber|Ryanbomber]] 12:24, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:It has received a mention in the [[Wii Remote]] article, there's no need for it to be mentioned in the [[Wii]] article. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 17:44, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::yes, so you and TJ keep saying, and each time to no avail. you are like a broken record player. the counter argument is that it is important enough to be mentioned in both places. but i'm done with this for now. this stupid argument already got me banned for 24 hours. from now on i'm focusing on the pages i created and making them as informative and well written as possible. i hope this gets resolved soon. so long a fair well.[[User:J.L.Main|J.L.Main]] 20:39, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
:::And your reason for including it has not been convincing. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 23:15, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
*It's impossible to conclusively prove which term is more common (there's a world outside the internet). "Wii Remote" is definitively the product name. The most common nickname for the peripheral is relevant and notable in the [[Wii_Remote]] article, but not in the article for the console itself. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 06:32, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
*a mention of Wiimote takes 2 words. it is not going to blow up the page if we mention the extremely common name, used by multiple officials at Nintendo. it's not like we're calling the console the Nintendo Wii - that would be bad - we are naming the quite common nickname. WP is all about information, not about denying facts. [[User:Scepia|Scepia]] 22:52, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
*Bladestorm is right, the nickname is mentioned at [[Wii Remote]] and that is more than enough. The only officials i've seen use it is Reggie, and in a offhand comment. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 23:15, 14 December 2006 (UTC)
::The Wii Remote section in the Wii article is a summary of the Wii Remote article. So it's more of an issue of Wiimote being significant enough to be in the summary. I think so. You don't, I guess. -[[User:Ryanbomber|Ryanbomber]] 12:29, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
==More Vandalism==
I reverted some more stupid explicit vandalism. I really do think semi-protection is an option here, as one of the most edited articles on Wikipedia. [[User:86.146.72.238|86.146.72.238]] 14:12, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
== Wii picture ==
I am ''so'' going to replace that washed-out pic with one that's better tomorrow. -- [[User:Ccool2ax|Chris]] <font color=green>[[User:Ccool2ax/speranza|is]]</font> [[User_talk:Ccool2ax|me]] 18:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
== "Wii console"... ==
Have you ever noticed how often "the Wii console" is used instead of just "the Wii" now?
<br/>It seems terribly redundant and unnecessary. The wii ''is'' a console. For comparison, look at the [[Playstation_3|PS3]] article, which says "Playstation 3 console" once, and doesn't even say "PS3 console" once; as opposed to a whopping '''''24 times''''' in the wii article. It isn't necessary. Any objection to changing most of the instances to just "the Wii"? [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 22:09, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:Perhaps I overdid it, but I changed all instances of both "the Wii" and just "Wii" to avoid mini edit wars over "The Wii" vs. "Wii". I'll try an alternate phrasing. [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] 22:16, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
::Nice job. Seems fine now. [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 22:38, 15 December 2006 (UTC)
:::The consensus here is to change ''most'' of the instances, not ''all''. [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] 14:26, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
== Wii Release date in Italy ==
Ciao
The page is protected or semi-protected.
so i leave you here my imput.
The release date in Italy was different because on 8th was national holydays
was on 7th like in australia on newz
and the official price is 10€ more than the rest of europe 259€
we have 20% of tax :(
I hope that you upload the page
ciao ciao
and sorry for my English
:I've added the release date to the box at the top [[User:Makar1|Makar1]] 22:09, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
== slot loading ==
Anyone know how they do it? I know know one knew how they were going to do it before it released, but it slot loads 8 and 12 CM disks and as far as I knew, no one else has been able to do this before.
:This is actually a significant point here. Just before the wii was released, I'd heard that it was the first slot-loading drive to be able to accept different sizes. Is that actually true? Or just non-techy tech-show people getting their facts mixed up? If so, it's worth mentioning. Anyone happen to know either way? [[User:Bladestorm|Bladestorm]] 20:34, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
::Hello? Anyone there? An answer would be nice.--[[User:Signor|Signor]] 08:01, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Uhh yeah, we're here. We aren't all disc drive experts. I can't find anything covering how a normal slot loading drive works, let alone one that can accept multiple sizes. I'd assume it just moves the internal parts that hold the disc depending on what it perceives the size as being (using something near the front that is spread apart different distances depending on what size of disc the user inserts). But, like I said, I don't know where to look for solid information. -- [[User:Consumed Crustacean|Consumed Crustacean]] <small>([[User talk:Consumed Crustacean|talk]])</small> 08:08, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
You should ask somewhere on [[wikipedia:reference desk]] maybe the science or computing section - it's not a wii specific question. Good luck - I don't know how they do it but can only guess. Maybe you should search for "slot loading drives how it works" and see if you can apply any answers you find to make it work for two sizes of disc.[[User:87.102.13.235|87.102.13.235]] 15:49, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:I thought all slot-loading disc drives could take 8mm discs. All my slot-loading computers take them. Are there really computers that can't? [[User:Jecowa|Jecowa]] 19:00, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
My Sony DVD player accepts 8cm discs and that has the same slot loading type drive the Wii does, so the Wii most definitely isn't the first to be able to do this.[[User:86.139.66.22|86.139.66.22]] 13:25, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
== Slot Illumination ==
''and remains on if the WiiConnect24 "Slot Illumination" setting is set to "Bright" or "Dim"...''
The slot's light is only on when you turn the Wii on (for a split second), or get a message. [[User:Nickr95|Nickr95]] 12:41, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
:The slot light illuminates when the Wii checks for new firmware when you are already online e.g. Shop Channel. [[User:Makar1|Makar1]] 21:54, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::My Wii lit blue when I got the update for the Forecast Channel. I woke for school one day when I saw it and i was like OMG! Lol.{{unsigned|65.3.164.35}}
:::Quote from manual - WiiConnect24 can let you know when it has received data by making the wii console's Disc Slot blink. [[User:Makar1|Makar1]] 16:45, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
== Style messed up ==
The part wheres Wii's picture and all the info is messed up!! theres:
* 1 Headline text
* 2 Headline text
* 3 Headline text
* 4 Headline text
* 5 Headline text
* 6 Launch
o 6.1 Release data
o 6.2 Marketing expansion
o 6.3 Titles
* 7 Name
* 8 Hardware
o 8.1 Wii Remote
o 8.2 Technical specifications
o 8.3 Legal issues
* 9 Features
o 9.1 Wii Channels
o 9.2 Backward compatibility
o 9.3 Nintendo DS connectivity
o 9.4 Parental controls
o 9.5 Online connectivity
o 9.6 Firmware
* 10 Software library
* 11 Reception
* 12 References and notes
* 13 See also
* 14 External links
Headline text
Headline text
Headline text
Headline text
Headline text
== Headline text ==Bold textItalic textNINTENDO WII KICKS ASS
^^^^^^
That kinda text.
==sd slot==
"Also, to utilize SD slot, a software update must be downloaded, so game saves cannot be transferred to or from a system which has not been connected to the internet." Is this true, does it apply to any use of the sd slot or just games saves.. [[User:87.102.4.180|87.102.4.180]] 16:41, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
I think thats game saves because my sister was playing with her photos when she got her wii and she hadent gone online or anything [[User:SIDEKICK|SIDEKICK]] 08:01, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:it's possible newer systems have updated firmware that allows SD usage. when did your sister get her Wii? [[User:Scepia|Scepia]] 08:45, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
::I beleive SD Photo use is right out of the box. SD copying of channels and game saves is with the update. (although not having a stock Wii to test on I can't verify) [[User:Webrunner|Webrunner]] 16:50, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
== Best-selling game ==
Isn't Wii Sports technically the best-selling game? After all, Super Mario Bros. was put as the best-selling game for [[NES]], along with Super Mario Bros. 3.[[User:The Legend of Miyamoto|The Legend of Miyamoto]] 19:09, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:We don't have a reference for Wii Sports to be the best selling game, though. -- [[User:ReyBrujo|ReyBrujo]] 19:44, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Well, Wii Sports is sold with every system in the Americas and Europe, and websites with JPN sales charts like the-magicbox.com show that it has sold far more than Zelda in Japan, where it isn't bundled with the system. - [[User:Subsurd|Subsurd]] 20:48, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
::I think it should count since Super Mario Bros. 30+ million sales included being bundled with the NES. We just need a source though. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 22:30, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:::our source is the sales figures for Wii in every region but Japan. no need to cite the obvious - Wii Sports is sold with Wii, obviously. [[User:Scepia|Scepia]] 22:46, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
:: Unless the game actually is charged a price for, other than being included in the wii, we cannot say it is best selling considering it is included with the system[[User:Quatreryukami|Quatreryukami]] 20:02, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Why not? Super Mario Bros. and Super Mario World were bundled in with their systems (NES/SNES. Although I realize both were also sold separately). Be default, everyone outside of Japan who buys the Wii also buys the game. Add in the fact that Wii Sports is the #1 selling Wii game in Japan, and Wii Sports is the best selling Wii game. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 23:11, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
::::I have to agree with Quatreryukami <!-- now that's a tough name to spell. -->... sort of. If the game is bundled with the system and ''not'' offered separately, it winds up the most-selling game almost ''by default'', so on the one hand, the comparison isn't really valid to begin with, but on the other hand, you do wind up with a lot of people owning a copy of the game. --''[[User:Stratadrake|Stratadrake]] 01:53, 19 December 2006 (UTC)''
::::::I'm sure they will end up selling the game by itself, like they are in Japan. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 01:55, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::::still, don't you think Zelda would be in front? at least for the first while. [[User:Scepia|Scepia]] 01:57, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
::::::::Outside of Japan, probably. Zelda games tend to drop in sales quickly in Japan (they will start strong and then drop dramatically after a few weeks). [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 02:08, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
:::::::::i'm gonna say its not really sold as a game, its more of a bonus thing. is there reference for how many wii sports have been sold anyway? <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[Special:Contributions/216.114.214.59|216.114.214.59]] ([[User talk:216.114.214.59|talk]]) 21:38, 19 December 2006 (UTC).</small><!-- HagermanBot Auto-Unsigned -->
:If they ever start selling it seperately in North America and Europe, then it should be considered as the top-selling. But not now. Everyone getting a Wii will be getting Wii Sports at this time. Super Mario Bros was bundled with the NES and sold seperatley. --[[User:Optichan|Optichan]] 22:02, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
== Region-Unlocker ==
I just found this: [http://www.gamespot.com/news/6163322.html], just a FYI, because I couldn't find the "region locked/unlocked" debate in the archives here on the talk page. [[User:Aetherfukz|Aetherfukz]] 23:26, 18 December 2006 (UTC)
== Some Trivia ==
"Wii" sounds like:
- "we" (english)
- "wie" (german for "how")
- "oui" (french for "yes")
Maybe someone wants to add that to the article? [[User:130.83.161.17|130.83.161.17]] 20:00, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
: I would leave such things out of the article entirly. There's already the Nintendo quote which states that Wii sounds like we and emphasizes on the aspect of two players playing together. And if you put in "sounds like wie in german" there will be an uprising from the people who want to put in "wii sounds like wee!" again. There isn't any reference on the XBox page that XBox sounds like Ex-Box in english, and Ix-Box in german, because it is not neccesary. [[User:Aetherfukz|Aetherfukz]] 23:26, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
: Hey, "Xbox" rhymes with "text box"! That would make a lovely addition to the [[Xbox]] article! [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]] 17:30, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
==name section==
I don't see why the name section is so long - it's just a tradename - not the meaning of life.[[User:87.102.4.227|87.102.4.227]] 19:02, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
I think its good for now no need to trim it [[User:SIDEKICK|SIDEKICK]] 07:59, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
== VG Charts ==
While based on the claims made in their forum,[http://www.vgcharts.org/forum/thread.php?id=89] this would be better than the NexGen Wars data,[http://nexgenwars.com/forum/showthread.php?p=15#post15] the statements of using "various inside sources (most of which is not made publically available)" and performing "a small amount of projecting forward and estimation" seems to be a cause for concern, in addition to the fact that the numbers don't seem to be dated to indicate how up-to-date they are. For a site whose reliability has the been subject of [[:Talk:List of best-selling computer and video games|heated debate]], I think some discussion is in order. What do people think? [[User:Dancter|Dancter]] 22:38, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
:I think it should be removed. While they are much better than nexgenwars.com, they still are not totally reliable and admit that they use some guessing. I say remove them and only use confirmable numbers. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 22:42, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
:As their process is admittedly based on interpolation and guesswork, there's no reason to think it's any more reliable than NextGenWars' crystal ball.[[User:Sockatume|Sockatume]] 22:44, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
::I just wanted to get the dialogue going on one of the more active talk pages before Jagged 85 got too carried away. [[User:Dancter|Dancter]] 22:52, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
:::This was discussed in great lengths before in the List of best-selling computer and video games talk page, and it was determined that VGCharts cannot be used because it is unverifiable. You can find discussions [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_best-selling_computer_and_video_games#VGCharts here] [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:List_of_best-selling_computer_and_video_games#Outside_View and more recently here]. [[User:Dionyseus|Dionyseus]] 23:29, 19 December 2006 (UTC)
::::I was aware of the discussions. While I didn't link to a specific thread, I linked to that talk page myself in my original comment. I did not read a definitive consensus in that. All I saw was that WhiteMinority backed down when a solution was proposed which would keep massive portions of the list from being removed. In any case, the numbers have been reverted, so I'm satisfied. [[User:Dancter|Dancter]] 03:19, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
== Learn how to spell Australiasia ==
Is this some kind of new continent? Sorry, Im just OCD and i cant see the names of simple continents being spelled wrong. edit in the second paragraph: Australasia to Australia. <small>—The preceding [[Wikipedia:Sign your posts on talk pages|unsigned]] comment was added by [[User:Racerday182|Racerday182]] ([[User talk:Racerday182|talk]] • [[Special:Contributions/Racerday182|contribs]]){{#if:{{{2|}}}| {{{2}}}|}}.</small><!-- Template:Unsigned -->
:I believe it's a real word and not just a misspelling. [[Australasia]] is a term variably used to describe a region of Oceania: Australia, New Zealand, and neighbouring islands in the Pacific Ocean. [[User:68.57.97.152|68.57.97.152]] 20:01, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
::Can we settle on using Oceania then, because Australasia is an obscure word. And seldom used outside the area of Australia. --[[User:Turbinator|Turbinator]] 21:24, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
:::I always though Australasia was just a nickname (sorta like Eurasia), no continent has that name. Oceania is what i'm pretty sure is the name of the continent of Australia/New Zealand/all those small Pacific Ocean countries. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 22:51, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
:::"Oceania" definitely reads better than an oddly mashed contraction. [[User:Just64helpin|Just64helpin]]
::::Well, I don't think it really matters what term is used as long as the sentence it's being used in remains clear to the reader. And don't ask me whether it's a nickname or not. I simply went to the page and ripped the first sentence right out of the article to post here. [[User:68.57.97.152|68.57.97.152]] 23:59, 20 December 2006 (UTC)
::: [[Australasia]] is used outside of the area of Australia, I've heard it numerous times. I mean, if that IS the area that includes Australia, and Oceania does not include Australia, then I really don't see how we can be factually correct without calling it by it's name, unless we list "[[Oceania]]: [[Australia]], [[New Zealand]], and neighbouring islands in the [[Pacific Ocean]]" which is what Australasia is after all. [[User:Mason11987|Chris M.]] 05:48, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Learn how to spell its. -lysdexia 06:10, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:Oceania DOES includes Australia. Even the Wikipedia entry on it says it is usually included (usully because most people do, it's a small minority that don't). Oceania includes Australia, New Zealand and all those little island countries in the Pacific Ocean. Oceania is the name of the continent, while Australasia is a rarely used term to decribe part of Oceania (the same way that Central America is used to decribe part of North America). [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 06:28, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
::Just a note, Australasia isn't quite as rarely used as you might thing. It's what we were always taught in school as referring to Australia and New Zealand, to mean the continent rather than just the country of Australia. (If it helps, I'm talking about in Ontario) (~Bladestorm)
::(Double edit conflict!) Interesting, it appears there is need for fixes on the [[Australasia]] article, as it says it includes Oceania, which it cannot according to the maps of both [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LocationOceania.png][http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:LocationAustralasia.png]. I haven't checked, but what does the reference refer to the area as? The question is if those far NE islands of Oceania are getting the wii at the same time as the rest of it (if they are, then the area getting it at the time is Oceania, if they aren't, then the area clearly isn't the whole Oceania, and Australasia may be the best use). [[User:Mason11987|Chris M.]] 06:34, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:::Actually, the Australasi article says it is part of Oceania (not that Oceania is part of it). [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 06:43, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Eh... maybe I should learn how to read, thank you. [[User:Mason11987|Chris M.]] 06:48, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:We should go for what the reference refers to the area as. Check the reference and see if all of the Oceania got the Wii at the same time, or see if only Australasia got it at that particular time. Then stick to it. While keeping in mind to keep it clear and to the point, for the reader. --[[User:Turbinator|Turbinator]] 19:03, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
== Wii-name cracked (OR) ==
This is OR (original research), but with educated guesses. I don't buy the We or the controller-icòn thing. As Nintendo is Japanese, its allusive names should come from that language.
Nintendo annamed the Revolution into Wii because
#ii is Japanese for good/fair;
#wee (not pee) means very small or sliht, and the Wii is rather small, white, smooth, and fair, in the same redesign as the DS Lite is to the DS—thus Nintendo Wii means Nintendo Lite;
# *ii also happens to rime with the i- that Apple uses for its product line, that English-speakker dolts misspeak, so that Nintendo may stick it onto their products to "i"dentify it;
#and to fulfil a thèory as meseems as I searchd for whether Japanese had a wii sound. Every poster said that it had ''not'' a wi sound, but did hav a wa and wo sound. Someone said it hade to be approximaten with uii. Then I found the "50 sounds" of Japanese that had 5 gaps in the grid for wi, we, wu, yi, and ye. Apparently these sounds amiss are only a blemish—"Japanese" should be ''all'' of Japanese from the gin of time, inasmuch as English should be all of it, despite the corrupt Wikiadmins who would censor edits that show a full grasp of English and Latin older than 600 years that is not corrupted by the common dolt into the gibberish that they are today. As usual, the majority (not magioriti) are wrong and Japanese ''does'' havvan a "wi": [http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=627772&lastnode_id=0]. Thus, Wii would be ゐぃ or ヰィ. That Nintendo would name its new consol after a dead sound in its own speak is to attest thes truthe, and resist the government's and populi's coverup hereof.
BTW, nin·ten·do = let·sky·shop. That is, Nin-ten do = Let-sky shop. -lysdexia 10:56, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
:Actually, "Nintendo" means "in luck's heaven". [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 21:32, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
::The most common way I've seen in rendered into English is "leave luck to heaven." [[User:70.240.246.155|Shostie]] 02:35, 22 December 2006
:::Actually, "Nintendo" means, "Work hard, but in the end it's in heaven's hands." --[[User:Luigifan|Luigifan]] 12:09, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
:::And, Lysdexia, your theory is interesting, but I have a hard time taking you seriously when your grammar is so atrocious.
::TJ Spyke, you're a liar unless you can take those words from the kanji. Those other translations are also liges. Luigifan, my grammar is fine; it is the world's grammar that is atrociose. Read my complaint in the list and at [[Talk:Untranslatability#disputed]]. You cannot "taking" ''anything'', and you chide ''my'' grammar? I'll bet that you can't even say "Luigi" wriht. -lysdexia 18:30, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
:::"Liges", "atrociose", and "wriht" are not words. You are looking for "lies", "atrocious", and "right" -- if you say otherwise, you're being retarded. On another note, "let-sky-shop" is probably right, except you used "sky" instead of the more common "heaven". --[[User:Guess Who|Guess Who]] 19:51, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
::::Comment only : [[List_of_company_name_etymologies#N]] gives "Heaven blesses hard work..."[[User:83.100.158.78|83.100.158.78]] 19:56, 22 December 2006 (UTC)
== LAN Adaptor ==
Estimated cost is 2800¥ ~ $24 (USD)
Can be found here [http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/accessories/index.html#lan_adapter]
[[User:Makar1|Makar1]] 21:30, 21 December 2006 (UTC)
== Wii game discs ==
I was looking for the article about the wii game discs and I got redirected to this article. Nintendo Gamecube discs got it's own article, should wii game discs got it's own article? Anyway, I was looking for whether the wii game discs is actually a DVD disc or what? Thanks [[User:202.138.226.3|202.138.226.3]] 04:16, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
:GameCube discs were basically mini-DVD's with modified encryption methods. Wii discs are similar. They are the same size as DVD's (4.7GB single-layer, 8.5GB dual-layer), but are not technically DVD's. [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 04:20, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
== Flash games on opera browser ==
Just a note, the little blurb that mrnitemare tried to add about flash games via the opera browser wasn't OR. It was just a bit premature. :)
<br/>If you take a look [http://wii.ign.com/articles/747/747368p1.html here], you'll see ign's coverage of the concept, or you can go straight [http://wiicade.com/Home.aspx here] to a website featuring wii-friendly flash games.
<br/>They're basically all just mouse-only flash games, that could thus be played with a wiimote instead. And some are really pretty darn neat, and should translate very well to the wiimote.
<br/>But, like I said, though not OR, still kinda premature, since it obviously won't be taking off for a while. (~Bladestorm)
:Yeah, it's not so much the existance of the games that's original research as much as the enthusiasm. I think we should probably wait a bit before mentioning it. --[[User:Maxamegalon2000|Maxamegalon2000]]
::It's not really special to the Wii though. These same flash games can be played on any system with a web browser (like the Dreamcast, PS3, PSP, etc.). [[User:TJ Spyke|TJ Spyke]] 23:46, 23 December 2006 (UTC)
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