Godalming and Talk:1941 Odessa massacre: Difference between pages

Revision as of 19:44, 3 February 2007

Revision as of 22:37, 18 July 2007

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{{WikiProject Russian History}}

{{infobox England place|

==message==

|Place= Godalming

To the original author of this article: It is a sad fact that Wikipedia articles don't quote their sources, especially when they deal with controversial political events. It goes without saying that the Romanians who will read this article will be skeptical about it and will doubt of its truth. (Many people in Romania consider Antonescu as a national hero and are reluctant to admit any Romanian responsibility for the Holocaust). I am ready to admit that they are not guilty for this, they just lack knowledge.

|Latitude=

|Longitude=

|Map=

|Parish= Godalming

|Population = 21,103

|District= [[Waverley, Surrey|Waverley]]

|DistrictType= Borough

|County= [[Surrey]]

|Region= [[South East England]]

|Ceremonial= [[Surrey]]

|Traditional= [[Surrey]]

|Constituency= [[South West Surrey]]

|PostalTown= GODALMING

|PostCode= GU7

|DiallingCode= 01483

|GridReference= SU968437

|Euro= [[South East England (European Parliament constituency)|South East England]]

|Police= [[Surrey Police]]

}}

This article says "General Ion Antonescu ordered from Bucharest that for every killed Romanian and German officer, 200 Jews and Communists were to be killed, and for every soldier, 100 were to be executed. All the Communists were to be imprisoned and one person was to be taken hostage from every Jewish family".

[[Image:Godalming_Pepperpot.JPG|thumb|right|The [[Pepperpot, Godalming|Pepperpot]], Godalming's former town hall.]]

My question is: if this is a historically undisputable fact, why is not the order issued by Antonescu scanned and put on the internet, so that no one should doubt about the atrocities ordered by Antonescu? I think that there is such an order, written on a piece of paper which was preserved after the fall of Antonescu regime and was probably used at his trial against him. If it could be made available to any person interested, then it would be impossible for any person with a minimal moral conscience to consider Antonescu as a positive hero.

'''Godalming''' is a town in the [[Waverley, Surrey|Waverley]] district of the county of [[Surrey]], [[England]], seven [[kilometre]]s south of [[Guildford]]. It is built on the banks of the [[River Wey]] and is a prosperous [[stockbroker belt]] [[commuter]] town for [[London]]. Godalming shares a three-way twinning arrangement with Joigny, France and Mayen, Germany. Friendship links are also in place between the state of Georgia, USA, and Moscow, Russia.

So:

==History==

(1) is there such a document written/signed by Antonescu?

The town has existed since [[Anglo-Saxons|Saxon]] times (see also [[Godalming (hundred)]]), and probably earlier. It is mentioned in the will of King [[Alfred the Great]], and the name itself has Saxon origins, 'Godhelms Ingus' roughly translated as “the family of godhelm”, and probably referring to one of the first [[lords of the manor]].

(2) can it be scanned and made available online?

And - obviously - if there is not such a document, what is the evidence for the claim made in the Wikipedia article? laurian {{unsigned|84.109.154.227}}

By the time of the [[1086]] [[Domesday]] survey, Godalming had three watermills and a population of roughly 400 people. At the time, its manor belonged to the King, but a few hundred years later, ownership transferred to the [[Bishop of Salisbury]], under a charter granted by King [[Edward I of England]].

== restoring traditional title ==

In the year [[1300]], the town was granted the right to hold a weekly market and an annual fair. Its major industry at the time was woollen cloth, which contributed to Godalming’s prosperity over the next few centuries, until a sudden decline in the [[17th century]]. Instead, its people applied their skills to the latest knitting and weaving technology and began producing stockings in a variety of materials, and later to leatherwork.

Please do not move articles to controversial names without consensus. I did not see a discussion regarding the move to [[Odessa Holocaust]], therefore I am restoring the long-standing name. If there are going to be other articles named [[Odessa massacre]], then we could discuss [[WP:DISAMBIG]]. Perhaps [[Odessa massacre (Holocaust)]] or some such would be appropriate, but I dislike parentheses in titles. ←[[User:Humus sapiens|Humus sapiens]] ^{[[User talk:Humus sapiens|ну]][[Special:Contributions/Humus_sapiens|?]]} 03:27, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

A willingness to adapt, and move from one industry to another meant that Godalming continued to thrive. For example, paper making was adopted in the [[17th century]], and was still manufactured there in the [[20th century]]. The quarrying of [[Bargate stone]] also provided an important source of income, as did passing trade - Godalming was a popular stopping point for stage coaches between [[Portsmouth]] and [[London]].

==Odessa Holocaust==

In [[1764]], trade received an additional boost when [[canalisation]] of the river took place, linking the town to Guildford, and from there to the [[River Thames]] and London on the [[Wey Navigation Canal|Wey and Godalming Navigations]].

Hi! There is nothing too wrong in titling [[Odessa massacre]], but the very name of event historically is reffered to the masssacre that occured in [[Odessa]] in 1905 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_battleship_Potemkin#Arrival_in_Odessa]. So, it could be more correct to call the extermination of Jews traditionaly a Holocaust to avoid any misunderstanding of the title. Truly, [[User:Paganel|Paganel]] 18:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

So successful was Godalming, that in the early [[19th century]] it was considerably larger than today’s county town of [[Guildford]], and by [[1851]] the population had passed 6,500. Already, it was becoming a popular residence for commuters, for it was connected to London by railway two years earlier, in [[1849]], and to Portsmouth in [[1859]]. Today the town is served by [[Godalming railway station]] on the [[Portsmouth Direct Line]].

: As in other similar cases in WP, I think it would be proper to reserve the title [[Odessa massacre]] for the most famous/infamous one and have [[WP:REDIRECT]]s and [[WP:DISAMBIGUATION]]s for other tragedies that scholarly sources may refer to as "Odessa massacre". Perhaps the best name for this one would be [[Odessa massacre (Holocaust)]] or [[Odessa massacre (1941)]]. In general, [[The Holocaust]] (Ha-Shoah) is a common name for the [[genocide]] of European Jews, therefore I don't think [[Odessa Holocaust]] is an encyclopedic title. Right now it is a redirect to [[Odessa massacre]]. Thanks. ←[[User:Humus sapiens|Humus sapiens]] ^{[[User talk:Humus sapiens|ну]][[Special:Contributions/Humus_sapiens|?]]} 20:53, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

The long history of Godalming is still evident in its architecture, from its [[Godalming Parish Church|parish church]], with its Saxon [[chancel]] and [[Norman architecture|Norman]] tower, to its 19th century town hall, nicknamed the [[Pepperpot, Godalming|Pepperpot]]. The town has around 230 listed buildings, featuring everything from [[Tudor period|Tudor]] timbers to 17th century brickwork.

:: Right You are. But it can be called Holocaust in Odessa, like [[Holocaust in Poland]], [[Holocaust in Romania]], [[Holocaust in Estonia]]. But the word Holocaust must be present, firstly, to avoid double meaning (The Odessa Massacre of 1905). And it really was a Holocaust and not an abstract massacre! So, the "Odessa massacre (Holocaust)", proposed by You, or "Odessa Holocaust Massacre" or, as it was, "Odessa Holocaust" or "Holocaust in Odessa" would be a nice title for the redirection, because this word must be present. What is your opinion? Very often I pass along the mass graves of it, and I know that a massacre is something caotic, but in Odessa it was not like this, it was a very well organized process of extermination. Truly, [[User:Paganel|Paganel]] 22:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Other significant buildings include [[Edwin Lutyens]]'s Red House, and a significant English public school, [[Charterhouse School|Charterhouse]] stands about a mile from the town, on the top of Charterhouse Hill. Charterhouse won the [[FA Cup]] as the Old Carthusians in 1880 and 1881.

::: Let's continue the discussion here. I am copying the above from our talk pages over here and requesting more opinions from [[Talk:The Holocaust]]''. ←[[User:Humus sapiens|Humus sapiens]] ^{[[User talk:Humus sapiens|ну]][[Special:Contributions/Humus_sapiens|?]]} 22:37, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

[[Winkworth Arboretum]], with its collection of rare trees and shrubs, is situated a few miles to the south.

===Public Electricity Supply===

Godalming came to world attention in September [[1881]], when it became the first town in the United Kingdom to have installed a public [[electricity]] supply, which made electricity available to consumers. It was Calder & Barnet who installed a [[Siemens AG|Siemens]] [[Alternating current|AC]] [[Alternator]] and [[Electrical generator|dynamo]] which were powered by a waterwheel, located at Westbrook Mill, on the river wey. There was a number of supply cables that fed seven [[Arc lamp|arc lights]] and 34 [[Joseph Swan|Swan incandescant lights]], some of which were laid in the gutters. Floods in late 1881 caused problems and in the end Calder & Barnet withdrew from the contract. It was taken over by Siemens. Under Siemens the supply system grew and a number of technical problems were solved. But later on in 1884 the whole town reverted back to gas lighting as Siemens failed to tender for a contract to light the town. This was due to a survey he undertook in the town that failed to provide adequate support to make the business viable, and Siemens had lost money on the scheme in the early years, but was prepared to stay on to gain experience. Electricity returned to the town in 1904.

==Transport==

Godalming is on the mainline [[UK railway stations - G|railway]] between [[Waterloo station|London (Waterloo)]] and [[Portsmouth]], and is served by South West Trains.[http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/SWTrains] The station has been recognised for its floral decorations including 10 hanging baskets.[http://www.southwesttrains.co.uk/SWTrains/News/_Godalming+Comes+Up+Smelling+of+Roses.htm] The next stations up and down the line are at [[Farncombe]] and [[Milford, Surrey|Milford]] which in many respects (for example transport and education) are effectively suburbs of Godalming. The town is also served by a bus network connecting the town centre with the main residential areas.

A community transport service is provided by "[[Hoppa]]". Chaired through it difficult early days by [[Brian Richards]],[http://www.hoppa.org.uk/businessPlan.pdf] Waverley Hoppa has burgeoned into a low priced provider of minibus and MPV personalised transport for the elderly, the disabled, the young and others for whom simpy getting from where they are to where they want to be is a problem.[http://www.hoppa.org.uk/]

==Residential==

People live in the town centre and various suburbs. To the east there is Catershall; to the west there is Aaron's Hill and Ockford Ridge; to the north there is [[Farncombe]], Charterhouse and Frith Hill; and to the south there is Holloway Hill, Busbridge and Crownpits.

Sometimes [[Milford, Surrey|Milford]] is classed as a suburb of Godalming.

==Schools==

Schools in the immediate Godalming area are:

===Private schools===

*[[Charterhouse School]] is a famous public boarding school founded in 1611 and located in Godalming from 1872. [http://www.charterhouse.org.uk/Other/charterhouse_history.asp] Although the 6th form is mixed (2:1 boys:girls), lower forms are boys only. Exam results in 2006 at B grade or higher were GCSE 96%, AS level 81%, A level 88%. [http://www.charterhouse.org.uk/Academic/examination_results.asp] Fees are £25,152 a year for boarders or £20,793 a year for "day boarders".[http://www.charterhouse.org.uk/Admissions/fees.asp]

*[[Prior's Field School]] is an independent private girls boarding school founded at the beginning of the 20th century by [[Julia Huxley]]. [http://www.priorsfield.surrey.sch.uk/docs/history.htm] Exam results in 2006 at B grade or better were: A levels 57%, GCSE 86%. [http://www.isc.co.uk/Uploads/File/ALevelFinalGirls20061002.csv][http://www.gsgdirectory.co.uk/?DIRECT&DNUM=368220E] There are 333 pupils of which about 40% are boarders (weekly or termly); fees per term (2006/07) are £3,950 plus a further £2,445 for boarding.[http://www.gsgdirectory.co.uk/?DIRECT&DNUM=368220E]

*[[St Hilary's School]] is an independent preparatory school for boys 2.5 - 7 (around 90) and girls 2.5 - 11 (around 200).[http://www.sthilarysschool.com/] Boys mainly go on to Aldro (74% 2006) and girls mainly to Prior's Field (36%), St Catherine's School Bramley (19%) and Tormead School Guildford (13%). Scholarships were gained by 17% of girls in 2006.[http://www.sthilarysschool.com/index.php?section=16] Annual fees are £6,270 - £9,060.[http://www.isbi.com/isbi-viewschool/654-ST_HILARYS_SCHOOL.html#information]

===State 6th form colleges===

*[[Godalming College]] is in the Holloway Hill area of Godalming. Founded in 1975 on the campus of Godalming Grammar School, it caters for sixteen to nineteen years olds.[http://www.godalming.ac.uk/home/] Awarded ''Beacon status'' in 2006, it was the best performing state school for AS/A levels in the Surrey area in 2004; its Ofsted report for 2005 graded the college as "outstanding" in six of the seven key areas ("good" in the 7th).[http://www.godalming.ac.uk/achievements/]

===State secondary schools===

Numbers in brackets indicate the % of pupils achieving 5 A-C [[GCSE]]s in total and then including the key subjects of [[maths]] and [[English studies|English]].[http://education.guardian.co.uk/secondaries/tables/0,,1986468,00.html]

*[[Broadwater School]] is in the Farncombe area of Godalming, caters for young people from 11 to 16 and has no 6th form. (42, 29)

*[[Rodborough Technology College]] is in the village of Milford on the outskirts of Godalming.(64, 59). Former pupil [[Paul Merrett]] is a famous chef, having appeared several times on British TV.[http://www.school-portal.co.uk/GroupNewsItem.asp?GroupID=21342&NewsID=22632]

===State primary schools (includes grant aided)===

All primary schools in Godalming are coeducational. Infant schools cover the age range 4 - 7, junior schools cover 8 - 11.

The figures shown in brackets are VA ''value added'' a measure of how pupils' performance has improved, and AGG ''aggregate score'' the sum of the percentages of pupils achieving the expected levels in English, maths and science (thus the maximum possible is 300).[http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/bsp/hi/education/04/school_tables/primary_schools/html/agg_936.stm]

*[[Binscombe Junior School]] (VA 98.9, AGG 195) is in the vllage of Binscombe, on the outskirts of the Farncombe side of Godalming.

*[[Busbridge C of E Aided Junior School]] was built over a 100 years ago by members of nearby Busbridge Church and extensive links between the two have continued to this day. It admits 60 children each year with preference being given to Christians and in particular to children of Busbridge/Hambledon church members. (VA 100.9, AGG 279)

*[[Busbridge County Infants School]] is in Hambledon Road Godalming. It caters for around 150 children (2007)[http://www.godalming-tc.gov.uk/directory.htm?c=31#o270]

*[[Godalming Junior School]] is in the Farncombe area of Godalming.[http://www.godalming-junior.surrey.sch.uk/] It has 230 children in 8 classes (4 per year). The Ofsted report for 2005 graded the school as at least ''satisfactory'' in all 4 of the new categories.[http://www.godalming-junior.surrey.sch.uk/School/Ofsted05.htm] (VA 100.6, AGG 275)

*[[Milford School]] is an infant school situated in the centre of the village of Milford, on the outskirts of Godalming. .[http://www.milford.surrey.sch.uk/html/the_school.html]

*[[Moss Lane School]] [http://www.moss-lane.surrey.sch.uk/]

*[[St Edmunds Catholic Primary School]] is a voluntary aided parish school covering both primary and junior age ranges (4 - 11); it is linked to both St Edmund's Church in Godalming and to St Joseph's Church in Milford. The 2005 Ofsted report described it as "a good school with a well deserved reputation of providing a good standard of education".[http://www.stedmundsschool.co.uk/](VA 100.1, AGG 282)

*[[St Mark C of E Primary School]] covers an extended primary and junior age ranges (3 - 11)and was the "most improved school in the country (DfES data released October 2005).[http://www.stmarks.surrey.sch.uk/] (VA 96.3, AGG 156)

*[[Witley C of E Infant School]] [http://www.witley.surrey.sch.uk/]

==Miscellania==

The comic novel ''[[The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin]]'', by [[David Nobbs]], contains the following footnote: "''Note: It is believed that this book mentions Godalming more than any other book ever written, including ''A Social, Artistic and Economic History of Godalming'' by E. Phipps-Blythburgh.''" The novel was the second in a trilogy, adapted to become a hit TV series: ''[[The Fall and Rise of Reginald Perrin]]''.

The town has often been used as a backdrop for the shooting of various films and television programmes. In February [[2006]], Church Street, which runs from the [[Pepperpot]] to the [[Godalming Parish Church|parish church]], was used in the production of ''[[The Holiday]]'', written and directed by [[Nancy Meyers]].

The character [[Arthur Holmwood]] in [[Bram Stoker]]'s [[Dracula]] has the title 'Lord Godalming'.

==Notable people==

*[[George Mallory]] (Mountaineer)

*Admiral Sir [[John Balchen]] [http://www.balchin-family.org.uk/family_history/people/admiral/index.html]

*[[Julius Caesar (cricketer)|Julius Caesar]] (cricketer)

*[[Nick Clarke]] (presenter)

*[[Ben Elton]] (comedian)

*[[Ott]] (musician)

*[[Chris Evans (broadcaster)|Chris Evans]] (TV and radio personality)

*[[Aldous Huxley]] (writer)

*[[Rachel Hurd-Wood]] (actress)

*[[Gertrude Jekyll]] (gardener)

*[[Edwin Lutyens]] (architect)

*[[Mick Mills]] (footballer)

*[[James Oglethorpe]] (founder of the [[Province of Georgia]])

*[[John George Phillips (wireless officer)|John (Jack) Phillips]] (radio operator on the Titanic)

*[[Christopher Timothy]] (actor)

*[[James Plaisted Wilde, Baron Penzance]]

*[[Damon Hill]]

*[[Peter Gabriel]], [[Michael Rutherford]], [[Tony Banks (musician)|Tony Banks]], [[Anthony Phillips]] (founders of [[Genesis (band)|Genesis]])

==External links==

*[http://www.godalming-tc.gov.uk/ Godalming Town Council]

*[http://www.godalming-museum.org.uk/ Town museum]

*[http://www.surreyproperty.com/godalming-aerial-photographs.html Godalming aerial photographs]

*[http://www.weyriver.co.uk/theriver The River Wey and Wey Navigations Community Site]

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[[Category:Towns in Surrey]]

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