Roy Keane and Talk:1941 Odessa massacre: Difference between pages

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{{WikiProject Russian History}}

'''Roy Maurice Keane''' (born in [[Cork]], [[August 10]] [[1971]]) is an [[Irish national football team|Irish]] [[football (soccer)|football]]er. He plays club football in [[England]] for [[Manchester United F.C.|Manchester United]], where he also [[captain (football)|captains]] the team.

==message==

To the original author of this article: It is a sad fact that Wikipedia articles don't quote their sources, especially when they deal with controversial political events. It goes without saying that the Romanians who will read this article will be skeptical about it and will doubt of its truth. (Many people in Romania consider Antonescu as a national hero and are reluctant to admit any Romanian responsibility for the Holocaust). I am ready to admit that they are not guilty for this, they just lack knowledge.

This article says "General Ion Antonescu ordered from Bucharest that for every killed Romanian and German officer, 200 Jews and Communists were to be killed, and for every soldier, 100 were to be executed. All the Communists were to be imprisoned and one person was to be taken hostage from every Jewish family".

== Club Career ==

My question is: if this is a historically undisputable fact, why is not the order issued by Antonescu scanned and put on the internet, so that no one should doubt about the atrocities ordered by Antonescu? I think that there is such an order, written on a piece of paper which was preserved after the fall of Antonescu regime and was probably used at his trial against him. If it could be made available to any person interested, then it would be impossible for any person with a minimal moral conscience to consider Antonescu as a positive hero.

Roy Keane first played football for local [[Cork]] club [[Rockmount]], before signing for the semi-professional [[Republic of Ireland|Irish]] club [[Cobh Ramblers]] in [[1989]]. Scouts from [[Brian Clough]]'s [[Nottingham Forest]] took note of his talents and promptly signed him for the sum of £47,000. Keane was quick to impress at [[Nottingham Forest]], making his professional league debut against [[Liverpool F.C.|Liverpool]].

So:

In [[1991]], Keane was a regular in the side, displacing the [[England national football team|English]] international midfield player [[Steve Hodge]], and scored three goals during a run to that season's [[FA Cup]] final, which Forest ultimately lost to [[Tottenham Hotspur]]. A year later Keane returned to Wembley with Forest for the [[League Cup]] final but again finished on the losing side as Manchester United gained a 1-0 win.

(1) is there such a document written/signed by Antonescu?

(2) can it be scanned and made available online?

And - obviously - if there is not such a document, what is the evidence for the claim made in the Wikipedia article? laurian {{unsigned|84.109.154.227}}

In [[1993]], the final season under Clough, Nottingham Forest were relegated from the [[Premier League|Premiership]]. The race to sign Keane was suddenly on, with Manchester United and [[Blackburn Rovers F.C.|Blackburn Rovers]] vying for his signature. [[Manchester United]] manager [[Alex Ferguson]] won the battle, getting Keane into [[Old Trafford]] for a then record £3.75m transfer fee. Keane was an instant success in the Manchester United midfield, taking over the mantle of midfield dynamo from [[Bryan Robson]].

== restoring traditional title ==

After the retirement of [[Eric Cantona]] in [[1997]], Keane's boundless energy and inspirational leadership made him the perfect candidate to take over as club captain. During the 1997-[[1998]] season Keane missed almost the entire campaign due to a knee injury, and, without his services, Manchester United failed to pick up a single trophy. Keane returned however, to captain the club to an unprecedented treble in [[1999]] including the [[FA Premier League]], [[European Cup]] and [[FA Cup]]. As a recognition for his efforts, Keane was voted [[PFA Players' Player of the Year]] in 2000.

Please do not move articles to controversial names without consensus. I did not see a discussion regarding the move to [[Odessa Holocaust]], therefore I am restoring the long-standing name. If there are going to be other articles named [[Odessa massacre]], then we could discuss [[WP:DISAMBIG]]. Perhaps [[Odessa massacre (Holocaust)]] or some such would be appropriate, but I dislike parentheses in titles. ←[[User:Humus sapiens|Humus sapiens]] ^{[[User talk:Humus sapiens|ну]][[Special:Contributions/Humus_sapiens|?]]} 03:27, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

Keane's total trophy haul with Manchester United includes: 7 FA Premier League titles ([[1994]], [[1996]], 1997, 1999, [[2000]], [[2001]], [[2003]]), 4 FA Cups (1994, 1996, 1999, [[2004]]), a European Cup (1999 - though Keane missed the final through suspension) and an [[Intercontinental Cup]] (1999). On [[February 5]], [[2005]], Keane scored his 50th goal for Manchester United in a league game against [[Birmingham City F.C.]]. His appearance in the [[2005]] FA Cup final (which United lost) was his seventh such game, an all-time record. Keane was also picked on the [[FIFA 100]] a list of the greatest living footballer's picked by [[Pelé]].

==Odessa Holocaust==

Although he maintains a low profile off the pitch, Keane's confrontational playing style, aggressive demeanour and short fuse have seen him involved in a string of violent incidents, making him popular with supporters of his home club, [[Manchester United]], but the subject of intense dislike by many others in the game. In 1995, he was sent off from an [[FA Cup]] semi-final for stamping on [[Gareth Southgate]], for which he was banned for three matches and fined £5,000. In August 2002 he was fined two weeks' wages, £150,000, and banned for three matches for elbowing [[Jason McAteer]].

Hi! There is nothing too wrong in titling [[Odessa massacre]], but the very name of event historically is reffered to the masssacre that occured in [[Odessa]] in 1905 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_battleship_Potemkin#Arrival_in_Odessa]. So, it could be more correct to call the extermination of Jews traditionaly a Holocaust to avoid any misunderstanding of the title. Truly, [[User:Paganel|Paganel]] 18:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

In [[2001]], Keane was heavily criticised for a gruesome tackle on Manchester City player Alf-Inge Haaland. He subsequently admitted in an autobiography that he intended "to hurt" Haaland. Although Haaland retired from football shortly afterwards, he had previously stated on his website that the cause of this was a recurring problem in his leg, rather than Keane's tackle. Keane was banned for five matches and fined £150,000. The two players had a history of trouble, [http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/photo_galleries/football/2190003.stm] with Haaland having tackled Keane in 1997; the resulting injury caused Keane to miss most of the 1997 season.

: As in other similar cases in WP, I think it would be proper to reserve the title [[Odessa massacre]] for the most famous/infamous one and have [[WP:REDIRECT]]s and [[WP:DISAMBIGUATION]]s for other tragedies that scholarly sources may refer to as "Odessa massacre". Perhaps the best name for this one would be [[Odessa massacre (Holocaust)]] or [[Odessa massacre (1941)]]. In general, [[The Holocaust]] (Ha-Shoah) is a common name for the [[genocide]] of European Jews, therefore I don't think [[Odessa Holocaust]] is an encyclopedic title. Right now it is a redirect to [[Odessa massacre]]. Thanks. ←[[User:Humus sapiens|Humus sapiens]] ^{[[User talk:Humus sapiens|ну]][[Special:Contributions/Humus_sapiens|?]]} 20:53, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

He has announced that he will retire in the summer of [[2006]], at the end of his current contract with Manchester United. Many people are expecting Keane to become a football manager when he retires. He is already training for his [[UEFA]] coaching badges. His current manager [[Sir Alex Ferguson]] has said that he wants Keane to succeed him as manager when he retires.

:: Right You are. But it can be called Holocaust in Odessa, like [[Holocaust in Poland]], [[Holocaust in Romania]], [[Holocaust in Estonia]]. But the word Holocaust must be present, firstly, to avoid double meaning (The Odessa Massacre of 1905). And it really was a Holocaust and not an abstract massacre! So, the "Odessa massacre (Holocaust)", proposed by You, or "Odessa Holocaust Massacre" or, as it was, "Odessa Holocaust" or "Holocaust in Odessa" would be a nice title for the redirection, because this word must be present. What is your opinion? Very often I pass along the mass graves of it, and I know that a massacre is something caotic, but in Odessa it was not like this, it was a very well organized process of extermination. Truly, [[User:Paganel|Paganel]] 22:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

== International Career ==

::: Let's continue the discussion here. I am copying the above from our talk pages over here and requesting more opinions from [[Talk:The Holocaust]]''. ←[[User:Humus sapiens|Humus sapiens]] ^{[[User talk:Humus sapiens|ну]][[Special:Contributions/Humus_sapiens|?]]} 22:37, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

At international level, Keane has represented his country 63 times ([[As of 2004|as of September 2004]]). Keane was named [[Republic of Ireland national football team|Ireland]]'s player of the tournament at the {{Wc|1994}} in the [[United States|USA]]. In [[2001]], inspired by Keane as international captain, Ireland went undefeated against international [[soccer]] heavyweights [[Portugal national football team|Portugal]] and the [[Netherlands national football team|Netherlands]], famously knocking out the Dutch to qualify for the {{Wc|2002}} in [[Japan]] and [[South Korea|Korea]].

At the same time, the Ireland squad also included [[Robbie Keane]], then-striker for [[Leeds United]], born in [[Dublin]] in 1980. Robbie Keane is not related to Roy Keane.

During the summer of [[2002]], at a pre-World Cup training camp in [[Saipan]], Keane and Ireland manager [[Mick McCarthy]] had a disagreement about the [[FAI]] preparations for the World Cup and McCarthy sent the Ireland skipper home. Keane's dissatisfaction with the Irish preparations first came to light in an interview with [[Irish Times]] journalist Tom Humphries. After a team meeting at which Keane verbally abused McCarthy and his fellow teammates, Keane stormed out. In all the accounts given of what transpired at this meeting, not one mentioned Keane being supported or seconded in his complaints by any of his teammates. Despite efforts from both the media and prominent Irish politicians, the two were unable to come to an agreement and Keane missed out on the World Cup and declined to ever again play under Mick McCarthy.

In Ireland, the 'Saipan Incident' (as it came to be known) split the Irish public right down the middle, with one half of the nation standing by Roy Keane and the other half supporting Mick McCarthy. It was even claimed by some to be the most dramatic ideological split the country had seen since the [[Irish Civil War]]. McCarthy went on to manage [[Sunderland]].

The appointment of [[Brian Kerr]] as Ireland manager in 2003 eventually led to the controversial return of Keane in the international arena in 2004. He made his International return on [[May 25]], 2004 in a friendly match against [[Romania national football team|Romania]] at [[Lansdowne Road]]. His heroic performances in subsequent matches made him a firm favourite among fans once more, including the majority of those who had spoken of him with such venom during in 2002. He helped Ireland draw away with [[France]] and [[Switzerland]] in their [[Football World Cup 2006 - European Qualification Groups]] campaign, which is being eagerly contested and is the most contested group.

== The Roy Keane Musical ==

In February 2005, the comedy musical 'I, Keano' opened in the [[Olympia Theatre]], [[Dublin]]. The show, which featured the cream of Irish comedy performers, was co-written by [[Father Ted]] writer [[Arthur Mathews]] and told the story of the Saipan Incident in the form of a Greek epic. The musical's characters included Keano (Roy Keane), General Macartacus (Mick McCarthy), Fergie the Scottish Dolphin God (Alex Ferguson) and tap-dancing wood nymph Dunphia ([[Eamon Dunphy]], the Irish broadcaster who, at the time of the Saipan Incident, led the pro-Roy Keane front, and later was the [[ghostwriter]] for Keane's explosive [[autobiography]]).

The production was directed by the respected Irish playwright and director, Peter Sheridan (brother of [[Jim Sheridan]]).

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[[Category:1971 births|Keane, Roy]]

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