Pizza and Talk:1941 Odessa massacre: Difference between pages

Revision as of 23:33, 2 October 2004

Revision as of 22:37, 18 July 2007

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{{WikiProject Russian History}}

:''For the computer language, see '''[[Pizza programming language]]'''.''

==message==

To the original author of this article: It is a sad fact that Wikipedia articles don't quote their sources, especially when they deal with controversial political events. It goes without saying that the Romanians who will read this article will be skeptical about it and will doubt of its truth. (Many people in Romania consider Antonescu as a national hero and are reluctant to admit any Romanian responsibility for the Holocaust). I am ready to admit that they are not guilty for this, they just lack knowledge.

This article says "General Ion Antonescu ordered from Bucharest that for every killed Romanian and German officer, 200 Jews and Communists were to be killed, and for every soldier, 100 were to be executed. All the Communists were to be imprisoned and one person was to be taken hostage from every Jewish family".

[[Image:Pizza_Funghi.jpg|thumb|350px|This pizza pie features [[pepperoni]], [[pepper]]s, [[olive]]s, and [[mushroom]]s.]]

My question is: if this is a historically undisputable fact, why is not the order issued by Antonescu scanned and put on the internet, so that no one should doubt about the atrocities ordered by Antonescu? I think that there is such an order, written on a piece of paper which was preserved after the fall of Antonescu regime and was probably used at his trial against him. If it could be made available to any person interested, then it would be impossible for any person with a minimal moral conscience to consider Antonescu as a positive hero.

In its basic form, a '''pizza''' (occasionally, albeit redundantly, '''pizza pie''') is an [[oven]]-baked, flat, usually circular [[bread]] covered with [[tomato sauce]] and [[cheese]] with optional garnishes. The cheese is usually [[mozzarella]] or "[[pizza cheese]]". Various other foodstuffs can be added to this design as garnishes, most typically ground [[meat]]s and [[sausage]]s, such as [[salami]] and [[pepperoni]], [[Ham (meat)|ham]], [[bacon]], fruits such as [[pineapple]] and [[olive]]s, [[vegetable]]-like fruits such as [[chili pepper]]s and sweet [[bell pepper]]s and vegetables such as [[onion]]s, and [[fungi]] such as [[mushroom]]s. The crust is traditionally plain but it can be flavoured with [[butter]], [[garlic]], [[herb]]s or [[sesame]]. The variety of ingredient typically used has drawn kudos by [[nutritionist]]s as an excellent [[fast food]]. Pizza can be eaten either hot (typically at [[lunch]] or [[dinner]]) or cold (typically at [[breakfast]] or on a [[picnic]]).

So:

In some countries, apart from eating pizza in a restaurant, buying it in a supermarket, or preparing it oneself, pizza can be ordered by phone or e-mail and is then delivered hot and ready for eating.

(1) is there such a document written/signed by Antonescu?

(2) can it be scanned and made available online?

And - obviously - if there is not such a document, what is the evidence for the claim made in the Wikipedia article? laurian {{unsigned|84.109.154.227}}

The word "pizza" is from the Italian ''pizza'' ([[International_Phonetic_Alphabet|IPA]]: /pittsa/), with the same meaning, also meaning "a mess". Italian plural: ''pizze'' ([[International_Phonetic_Alphabet|IPA]]: /pittse/).

== Typesrestoring oftraditional pizzatitle ==

Please do not move articles to controversial names without consensus. I did not see a discussion regarding the move to [[Odessa Holocaust]], therefore I am restoring the long-standing name. If there are going to be other articles named [[Odessa massacre]], then we could discuss [[WP:DISAMBIG]]. Perhaps [[Odessa massacre (Holocaust)]] or some such would be appropriate, but I dislike parentheses in titles. ←[[User:Humus sapiens|Humus sapiens]] ^{[[User talk:Humus sapiens|ну]][[Special:Contributions/Humus_sapiens|?]]} 03:27, 15 July 2007 (UTC)

=== Authentic Neapolitan pizza ('a pizza Napulitana)===

==Odessa Holocaust==

According to ''Associazione vera pizza napoletana'', genuine Neapolitan pizza dough consists of [[flour]], natural [[yeast]] or [[brewing|brewer]]'s yeast and water. Further the dough must be kneaded by hand or with an approved mixer. After the rising process the dough must be formed by hand without the help of a [[rolling pin]] or any other mechanical device. Baking the pizza must take place on the surface of a bell shaped, wood-fired, volcanic stone oven. The oven temperature is between 400°C and 450°C and the pizza is cooked for approximately 2 minutes. It should be soft, well cooked, fragrant and enclosed in a soft edge of crust.

Hi! There is nothing too wrong in titling [[Odessa massacre]], but the very name of event historically is reffered to the masssacre that occured in [[Odessa]] in 1905 [http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_battleship_Potemkin#Arrival_in_Odessa]. So, it could be more correct to call the extermination of Jews traditionaly a Holocaust to avoid any misunderstanding of the title. Truly, [[User:Paganel|Paganel]] 18:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

The classic types include and their respective toppings are:

: As in other similar cases in WP, I think it would be proper to reserve the title [[Odessa massacre]] for the most famous/infamous one and have [[WP:REDIRECT]]s and [[WP:DISAMBIGUATION]]s for other tragedies that scholarly sources may refer to as "Odessa massacre". Perhaps the best name for this one would be [[Odessa massacre (Holocaust)]] or [[Odessa massacre (1941)]]. In general, [[The Holocaust]] (Ha-Shoah) is a common name for the [[genocide]] of European Jews, therefore I don't think [[Odessa Holocaust]] is an encyclopedic title. Right now it is a redirect to [[Odessa massacre]]. Thanks. ←[[User:Humus sapiens|Humus sapiens]] ^{[[User talk:Humus sapiens|ну]][[Special:Contributions/Humus_sapiens|?]]} 20:53, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

* '''Marinara or Napoletana''': [[tomato]], [[olive oil]], [[oregano]], and [[garlic]].

* '''Margherita''': tomato, olive oil, fresh [[basil]] leaves, grated [[parmesan cheese]], and [[fior-di-latte]] (mozzarella made from cow's milk) or mozzarella di buffala. Said to have been created by Raffaele Esposito in [[1889]], with the toppings in the colours of the tricolor flag of Italy, and named for the wife of King [[Umberto I of Italy]], [[Princess Margrethe of Savoy|Queen Margherita of Savoy]].

* '''Formaggio e Pomodoro''': tomato, olive oil, and grated [[parmesan cheese]]. Basil leaves are optional.

:: Right You are. But it can be called Holocaust in Odessa, like [[Holocaust in Poland]], [[Holocaust in Romania]], [[Holocaust in Estonia]]. But the word Holocaust must be present, firstly, to avoid double meaning (The Odessa Massacre of 1905). And it really was a Holocaust and not an abstract massacre! So, the "Odessa massacre (Holocaust)", proposed by You, or "Odessa Holocaust Massacre" or, as it was, "Odessa Holocaust" or "Holocaust in Odessa" would be a nice title for the redirection, because this word must be present. What is your opinion? Very often I pass along the mass graves of it, and I know that a massacre is something caotic, but in Odessa it was not like this, it was a very well organized process of extermination. Truly, [[User:Paganel|Paganel]] 22:14, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

Turnovers in the pizza family:

* '''Ripieno or Calzone''': fior-di-latte or mozzarella di buffalo, sometimes also [[ricotta cheese]], olive oil, and salami, other [[meat]], [[vegetable]]s, etc.

* '''Stromboli''': mozzarella, meat, vegetables, etc.

::: Let's continue the discussion here. I am copying the above from our talk pages over here and requesting more opinions from [[Talk:The Holocaust]]''. ←[[User:Humus sapiens|Humus sapiens]] ^{[[User talk:Humus sapiens|ну]][[Special:Contributions/Humus_sapiens|?]]} 22:37, 18 July 2007 (UTC)

=== Others ===

Pizza has become an international food since the toppings can be extensively varied to meet local variations in taste. These pizzas consist of the same basic design, but include an exceptionally diverse choice of ingredients, such as [[anchovy|anchovies]], [[Egg (food)|egg]], [[pineapple]], [[eggplant]], [[lamb]], [[couscous]], [[chicken]], [[fish]] and [[shellfish]], meats done in ethnic styles such as [[Moroccan cuisine|Moroccan]] [[lamb]], [[kebab]] or even [[chicken tikka masala]]; and non-traditional spices such as [[curry]] and [[Thailand|Thai]] sweet [[chili]]. A "white pizza" (''pizza bianca'') uses no tomato sauce, often substituting [[pesto]] or [[dairy]] products such as [[sour cream]]. Pizzas with "non-traditional ingredients" are known in the [[United States]] as "gourmet pizza" or [[California]]-style. It is also simple to make pizzas without meat for [[vegetarian]]s.

Hawaiian pizzas are a North American invention, usually consisting of a cheese and tomato base with [[ham (meat)|ham]] (sometimes Canadian bacon) and [[pineapple]] toppings. Hawaiian pizza is mocked by some as a combination which has strayed too far from its Italian roots.

Pizza may be baked with thin bread bottom (Italian style) or with thicker bread (pan pizza). In [[Chicago, Illinois|Chicago]], the [[Chicago Style Pizza]], or [[deep dish pizza]] contains a crust which is formed up the sides of a deep dish pan and reverses the order of ingredients, using crust, cheese, filling, then sauce on top. Some versions have two layers of crust with the sauce on top.

In restaurants it can be baked in a conveyor belt oven or in the case of more expensive restaurants, a wood fired brick oven.

In general, international pizza is considered by many to be of higher quality near urban centers, such as [[New York City]].

In [[Scottish]] [[fish and chips|fish and chip]] shops, it is usually possible to buy a "pizza supper". This consists of a portion of fried chips and a frozen pizza which has been [[Deep frying|deep fried]] rather than baked. Although its nutritional value is highly dubious, it is nevertheless a popular meal.

== History ==

[[Flat bread]]s are an ancient tradition round the Mediterranean. Perhaps of ancient [[Persia]]n origin, such bread was introduced to [[Magna Graecia]] (southern Italy) by its earliest Greek colonists.

In the 3rd century B.C., the first history of [[Rome]], written by [[Marcus Porcius Cato]], mentions a "flat round of dough dressed with olive oil, herbs, and honey baked on stones". Further evidence is found in [[79]] A.D. from the remains of [[Pompeii]], archeologists excavated shops that closely resemble a present day pizzeria.

The [[tomato]] was first believed to be poisonous (as most other fruits of the [[nightshade]] family are), when it came to [[Europe]] in the 16th century, but by the late 18th century even the poor of the area around Naples added it as an ingredient to their yeast-based flat bread and the dish gained in popularity. Pizza became a tourist attraction and visitors to Naples ventured into the poorer areas of the city to try the local speciality.

The earliest pizzeria opened in [[1830]] at Via Port'Alba 18 in Naples and is still in business today. Pizza was still considered "poor man's food" in [[1889]] when [[Rafaele Esposito]], the most famous pizzaiolo of Naples, was summoned before King [[Umberto I of Italy|Umberto I]] and Queen [[Princess Margrethe of Savoy|Margherita]] to prepare the local speciality. It is said that he made two traditional ones and additionally created one in the colours of the [[Italy|Italian]] flag with red tomato sauce, white mozzarella cheese, and green [[basil (herb)|basil]] leaves.The big secret in making pizza is the fact that its not only mozzarella cheese but rather a mixture of white cheddar and mozzarella. The Queen was delighted and "pizza Margherita" was born.

An Italian immigrant to the US in [[1897]] named Gennaro Lombardi opened a small grocery store in [[New York City|New York]]'s [[Little Italy]]. An employee of his, Antonio Totonno Pero, also an Italian immigrant, began making pizza for the store to sell. Their Pizza became so popular, Lombardi opened the first US pizzeria in [[1905]], naming it simply Lombardi's. In [[1924]] Totonno left Lombardi's to open his own pizzeria on [[Coney Island]] called Totonno's. At this point in time Pizza was still limited mostly to the Italian immigrant crowd.

The international breakthrough came after [[World War II]]. Although the birthplace of modern day pizza is [[Naples]], local bakers were at a loss to satisfy the demand from American soldiers. While the American troops involved in the Italian campaign took their appreciation for the dish back home, the millions of Italians called to help rebuild the damaged economy introduced their cuisine to the rest of Europe.

With the rising popularity in the [[1950s]], especially in the US, several major corporations became chiefly engaged in the commercial production of pizza, notably [[Pizza Hut]] (owned by [[Yum! Brands, Inc.]]), [[Domino's Pizza]], [[Little Caesar's]], [[California Pizza Kitchen]], [[Round Table Pizza]] and [[Papa John's Pizza]]. These pizza chains often coexist with locally owned and operated pizza chains.

Because pizzas can be made quickly and are easily transported, most pizza restaurants in the United States offer call-in [[pizza delivery]] services. The lack of such delivery services at the time in England was the focus of an extended passage in the [[Douglas Adams]] novel ''[[The Long Dark Teatime of the Soul]]''.

In most developed countries, pizza is also found in [[supermarkets]] as a [[frozen food]]. Considerable amounts of food technology has gone into the creation of palatable frozen pizzas. The main challenges include preventing the sauce from combining with the dough, and producing a crust that can be frozen and reheated without becoming rigid. Traditionally the dough is somewhat pre-baked and other ingredients are also sometimes pre-cooked; lately frozen pizzas with completely raw ingredients have also begun to appear.

== External links ==

* [http://www.verapizzanapoletana.org/vpn/vpn_frames-index.htm Associazione vera pizza napoletana — US Chapter]

* [http://whatscookingamerica.net/History/Pizza/PizzaHistory.htm A more in-depth history of the Pizza]

* [http://www.nytimes.com/2004/06/09/dining/09PIZZ.html For the Pizza Makers of Naples, a Tempest in a Pie Dish] by Al Baker

* [http://www.correllconcepts.com/Encyclopizza/_home_encyclopizza.htm Encyclopizza - The Guide to Preparing Great Pizza]

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